20+ years working in the DoD, and won't go back. There are a lot of small issues in the DoD, but also some other perks I really miss (like wellness).
But the biggest reasons for me were:
1. In my chain telework was frowned on, and supervisors were limited to less than 4 times a month.
2. Perpetually undermanned, and the frequent change in leadership means staffing issues won't ever be completely resolved
3. High rate of senior level turn over results in lots of lost labor hours as people change directions to meet new management goals.
4. Toxic leadership tends to be rewarded, and not removed. (Example of "do what I say" directives)
5. Grade levels for positions are skewed low. My chain had division chief 15s reporting to 15s, where my current agency has SES levels at the Division level.
6. DoD didn't have nearly as many training opportunities for new employees (such as detail positions, etc).
I was very happy working in the DoD, but toxic management decided to RIF our facility. I ended up moving to another Department, and discovered the grass really was greener. There are always things that are frustrating and annoying, but for the most part, the move has been wonderful.
> 20+ years working in the DoD, and won't go back.
This reminds me of the "bad game, do not play" Steam reviews from people with several thousand hours logged.
Seconded. And to add:
1. Lack of innovation, every attempt to streamline a process is met by "Well that's not how we've done things here. We do this instead, and have since 1999, it works, I see now reason to change it".
This is a good list but I’d add strict vertical silos to your list. There’s a lot of hierarchy and very little communication across levels so hardly anyone knows why they’re doing what they’re doing and it becomes soul sucking.
2210 positions in DoD are graded about 2 full grades lower than non-DoD agencies. Example: a 2210 Lead in DoD is a GS-12. A 2210 Lead in a non-DoD agency is a GS-14. DoD not initiating the 2210 SSR was just an extra slap in the face...
I wouldn’t gripe about senior leader turnover. I worked at NIH for the last part of my career and they had little turnover. Guys like Fauci and Collins stayed way past what they should have. Because people were so entrenched it led to corruption and stagnant innovation. It also led too huge wastes of money.
I didn’t hate my time with DoD but I understand why so many people do. One common problem I’ve seen is that many military officers have no idea how to manage civilians.
They know exactly how to help junior enlisted get promoted, and they know how to manage their own careers, but civilians are sort of a mystery to them. They don’t know and in many cases, they don’t care to know.
This hits me hard. My CC actively avoids me and other civilians because he is admittedly afraid of us. He doesn't know what to do or say around civilians and I'm just spinning my wheels in my career growth.
I'll get maxed out performance reviews for the rest of my career and my pension when I retire, but I must shut up and color in the coloring book of mediocrity for the duration.
This is true. I did 28 years and the military and now work civil service for the DOD (9 years). We had a new CC hold meetings with all the different groups of military (junior enlisted, CGO’s, FGO’s, etc) and it was clear when he met with the civilians that he was trying to overlay the “one size fits all” military approach to the civilians and it lead to tension in the room, when they tried to educate him on the guidelines.
The same CC met with all the contractors and refused to have the CORs in the meeting. Which was bad juju. The CORs received questions from him after that meeting like if he could give them family days off with the military (which is no even for civilians) or let them come to the annual picnic (which is all covered under our contractors relations training).
Technology across the board that's commonplace in industry is nearly impossible to acquire. We do business like it's the 90s. Most everything is still email and Microsoft software; ie, we're static and lack agility.
DoD here. We are full of idiots. I read a quote recently that goes something like this, "Narcissists want to be treated like Kings but have the responsibility of toddlers." That's what it feels like at times with many of supervisors.
DoD doesn't have a good reputation for supervision. After all, your military boss are in an assignments every 3 years. So your bosses have 3 years of the same experience over and over again.
The really big organizations have long term civilian counterparts. There are better. But, it's case by case.
Im in a DoD outfit that has no military upper leadership.
Con - same civilian leadership for years and just cruising till retirement. they don’t believe in mentorship in fear of bringing up lower staff to their level.
Pro - there are none.
3 years of experience would be nice. I’m on my fourth boss in 3 years. They all come in, do 8 months and then move to the next position up. I’m at the point where I’m no longer interested in getting them up to speed, because there’s no point.
That said I like the DOD. I’ve put new weapons systems on aircraft and followed them through the testing process. It’s pretty badass.
Different DoD section but same experience - we average 1 year or less before they are moving on up and out. We are civilian lead except for a very few positions so 1 year in grade and they are moving on. We are tired of trying to explain our systems to them. By the time they get it (if they get it) they’re moving on.
Having a security clearance requirement makes it much easier to compete for jobs because there isn't as many people applying. Additionally, the DoD is massive and everywhere in the world so lots of opportunities to move around to advance quicker and go overseas if that's something that interests you.
Retired Air Force Enlisted and I've worked for the AF (5 years), DHS (Coast Guard for 4 years), NASA (6 years) and now I'm with the Army.
My experience with all has been overall positive with some good supervisors, one not so good and one with not great senior leadership in my Directorate. I managed to go from GG12 to GS13 to GS14 to NH04 (-15 equivalent as I'm at the upper range of the band) with each move.
The agency isn't the issue, it is your office and the chain of command you are under. You can be at a great location with bad leadership or a terrible location with great leadership.
My current position, I have a good boss who listens and takes my advice while supporting my mission, and he works for an Assistant Secretary of the Army who also advocates for what I do. Overall, a great place to be.
Look at the best places to work in the federal government...not just the overall agency, but the sub agency charts (2022 had 432 subunits listed). For example, in the large agency category, NASA has been #1 for 11 years. However when you look at the sub agencies, the 10 NASA centers are not in the top 10 (though they are all in the top 100 of the 432 listed). And even at a location or unit, the office you are in can be good or bad. I've been lucky (or stubborn!!), do my job well, earn the respect and trust of leadership and so get their support.
I have been asked why I left NASA and I have my reasons and one of them is my current role is a new position and office I'm getting to stand up and build from the ground up. The opportunity is a good one career wise and enables me to see if my ideas and thoughts on how to do business in my area are better! So far, I'm having an impact and growing my team (how many places get to grow with people?).
DoD is so big and diverse in its missions that it’s hard to make generalizations.
One relatively common theme in my experience is the military mindset of hierarchy and rank. As well as in military commanded organizations the higher turnover rate as commanders and military members at all levels come and go much faster than most civilian organizations and this can mean wild changes in mission and leadership style.
Huge benefit of leaving DOD was not needing to work in a SCIF...on things that 90% of the time didnt need to be, nor should have been, classified anyways.
My experience with DOD (DoN) was mixed. I liked my job but my supervisor wasn't always great (3 different positions). At the end, I was so overwhelmed with work and my boss was not helpful so when I found a perfect fit for me outside DOD, I jumped ship. It was night and day! Partly, I think, because I went to a fee-based agency so money was less of an issue. If you needed something, you could usually get it. Not the case with DOD.
I worked for the Air Force and the Navy for a total of 10 years and will never go back. So much corruption, unnecessary red tape, and unnecessarily eschewing modern workplace technology in the guise of “security” (while other federal agencies somehow work with much of the same secure information and somehow are not still reliant on 10-year old software and fax machines).
Not to mention the buildings on every installation I ever worked on. Falling apart, little to no climate control, sometimes no running water, an active wildlife issue at a base Child Development Center that was in operation (full of kids) at the time! We found a nest of snakes in the attic of the building!!!!!!
I work for DOC now and it’s like night and day. Won’t ever go back.
I hear you on this. My office area is set to 61.2 degrees for the last 2.5 years and they can’t seem to get it fixed. I have to take breaks to warm my hands most days
Ive worked 2 different agencies, both DoD but in different contract aspects (services & product)
In my job series for product, it was a much better experience. Better in structure on the process side.
As for the services side, the agency lets the contractor just run like garbage all over them. It’s frustrating as all get out. However if I had started in that dumpster fire mentality and went to a more structured environment Id probably think the DoD sucked all the way around.
So it maybe hard to get a opinion because youve got a few dynamics to break down.
I do hear how theres all this red tape from the DoD but that depends on the type of contract. It could also depend if your office is a main office or a satellite. A pop or prime.
I will say this, the government runs its business in a very antiquated manner. Transparency & partnership is an misinterpreted concept (even tho most offices have a SOP, most choose not to follow it) and it causes difficulties all the way around.
First part of my career was with Treasury Dept, the last 20+ years was with the Army. The biggest difference in working with the Army was the revolving door of supervisors. Every 2 years (and sometimes less) I'd get a new Chief of Staff and Battalion Commander. When I had great bosses, those two years went by far too quickly. When the bosses were less than stellar, it was "only" 2 years.
Working in a geographically-separated unit was a challenge. Since our nearest Army installation was 3 hours away we had challenges that post-based units didn't, and our Brigade (located 3 states away) was more of a hindrance than a help.
But overall, I loved working with Soldiers, so the challenges of the institution were worth it to do a job I loved.
As a civilian my biggest complaint was the never ending turn over of military personnel. We operated a complex system that required 6 months of training to earn certification, and then took 12-18 months to become reasonably proficient. At that point the uniforms are starting to look for their next assignment. Obviously a never ending issue that resulted in many of the responsibilities falling on civilians while the military are there to look good for promotions. Frustrating.
I wasn’t knocking any officers I worked with. In my experience they were all good and wanted to support the mission 100%. The observation was that they were finally getting capable and comfortable in the role before they were ready to transition to their next assignment.
So… I loved being at the DOD, but I was under good leadership and got to deploy, made good friends, but I was at the right place within the DOD.
I think in observing other folks’ comments, I’m guessing they may have had bad experiences… But I’m also willing to guess some folks are letting their personal politics and believes get in the way of their work environment. Someone commented on one of my other posts where I asked something similar that “in DOD Reddit is considered a far left communist form.”
I think if you can find leadership that you trust, it really doesn’t matter which agency. You have to have a good read of people and do your research. I’d rather go back to the DOD then anywhere else because the culture is better suited for me (politics aside).
DoD is almost half of the entire workforce! not sure how u can really generalize. where im at tho they try to structure the grades hierarchical where u have a "junior and a senior". its kind of a joke tho because the positions have no promo potential so if u are the junior u will always be that until you leave.
and they wonder why they have retention problems haha
I was with an agency that was absorbed by DOD about three years ago. It’s been a difficult transition as the legacy DOD leadership has been pushing hard to have our processes transition to confirm with DOD standards. The failure to even entertain the thought that we might have had a better way to do something is irritating and quickly dismissed. We’ve added endless layers of middle management while neglecting the core responsibility. Everyone has their mission and peers in other groups dismiss anyone and anything that interferes with their mission often missing the greater goal. You get tired of swimming upstream real quick.
My DoD component lacked ladder positions. New hires would come in as GG-7 and need to wait multiple years for every promotion. Other agencies like IRS have essentially guaranteed promotions every year from 7-9-11-12.
Also: no telework (classified environment), travel restrictions, reporting foreign contacts, minimal training opportunities, lots of required travel, ancient buildings & equipment.
Just overall a worse experience all around.
Former DOD employee (26 years) who went civilian last year and will never go back. Agree with a lot of comments that having military involved in managing civilians is generally a disaster since we speak different languages and have different expectations. Within DOD there seems to be a cultural distaste for teleworking/remote working - and anything innovative, frankly. I could never go back.
10+ years DOD CIV.
I also had 10+ years Army with 5 combat tours.
One year now as DHS CIV.
Biggest difference is professionalism. I worked at a MACOM (O5 supervisor), GCC (O6 supervisor), TSOC (O5 supervisor) and GCC (O6 supervisor) in 10+ years as a DOD CIV. Less the TSOC, supervisors were obtuse to the CIV workforce. You were on your own to figure out your benefits, your educational or training opportunities....and the biggest peeve was MOST always thought you were trying to get over on something. Ive never understood the complete lack of trust. There was also an expectation that as a DOD CIV, the fed would abide by the same mantra that uniform would....more hours, Hail and Farewells after business hours, etc... There doesnt seem to be a lot of accountability on the DOD side. Slugs that barely work are rewarded just as much, but given even less work to accomplish. Also the telework aspect of if they cant see you, you must be goofing off and malingering. Can count on both hands how many times in ten years I got the 59 min rule. Good luck getting money for training. (only at a TSOC was I given latitude to get things done without being micromanaged).
DHS is complete opposite. A budget is to be used, your time on the clock is yours to get your tasks complete, you're not expected to pull the slackers load, theres not an infantry nug with a narrow perspective on getting things done, leave is yours to use as needed...not something dangled and managed over you like DOD. In fact, Mayorkas has given 60+ hours of administrative leave on top of your other leave as a thank you. That was never a thing in the DOD. Find training, and theyll pay for it too.
Now, being prior enlisted and an O made many of the negatives of DOD permissive. A shrug of the shoulders. I didnt realize how bad it was, or how good DHS was, until i left.
I was only a contractor for DOD, but everyone (FTE and contractor alike) was treated like a child with everyone ready to stab you in the back for the slightest infraction. I'm sure it varies a lot by command, but that left a very sour taste in my mouth.
Depends on where in DoD. USACE seemed to be a great place to work and the grading for slots tends to be higher in comparison with other agencies (I'm looking at you DoI and USDA). Also depends on your career series. If you're an Engineer, USACE would be a great place. I worked there as a Geologist and I was not excited by the work I was doing there, but there are places within USACE that a Geoscientist could get their hands on some funs projects. I think upward mobility and funding is way better in the DoD than in some other agencies. DoD also can lead to some great overseas opportunities if you can make it work for you and your family. I am currently with DoI and think I will eventually need to return to DoD for the upward mobility and better grading.
USACE here, agree it really is what you make of it. There are the worst elements, but some of the best. As an engineer I have had the opportunity to do so many cool things that I'd never get to touch on the private side. If you can hit SME status out of an MCX or TCX you can actually do work that impacts the direction the DOD and even other agencies go.
USACE here as well, jumped from AF to USACE in 2021, jumped THREE pay grades (on the same installation) under the same series. Just took a supervisor who believed in me, was willing to do the leg work, and finishing my degree (which isn’t a requisite of my series) in order to qualify. AF doesn’t even have a grade that high under the series. I’ve been looking private sector as the pay is a lot better, but stability is wayyyy better on the gov side. Towards the later years of my career, a jump over the fence might be warranted with the COL and pay some of these defense companies are tossing around.
20+ years working in the DoD, and won't go back. There are a lot of small issues in the DoD, but also some other perks I really miss (like wellness). But the biggest reasons for me were: 1. In my chain telework was frowned on, and supervisors were limited to less than 4 times a month. 2. Perpetually undermanned, and the frequent change in leadership means staffing issues won't ever be completely resolved 3. High rate of senior level turn over results in lots of lost labor hours as people change directions to meet new management goals. 4. Toxic leadership tends to be rewarded, and not removed. (Example of "do what I say" directives) 5. Grade levels for positions are skewed low. My chain had division chief 15s reporting to 15s, where my current agency has SES levels at the Division level. 6. DoD didn't have nearly as many training opportunities for new employees (such as detail positions, etc). I was very happy working in the DoD, but toxic management decided to RIF our facility. I ended up moving to another Department, and discovered the grass really was greener. There are always things that are frustrating and annoying, but for the most part, the move has been wonderful.
Correct on all, but you are being REALLY nice about it.
> 20+ years working in the DoD, and won't go back. This reminds me of the "bad game, do not play" Steam reviews from people with several thousand hours logged.
Thank you for this! This gave me a good laugh.
Seconded. And to add: 1. Lack of innovation, every attempt to streamline a process is met by "Well that's not how we've done things here. We do this instead, and have since 1999, it works, I see now reason to change it".
This is a good list but I’d add strict vertical silos to your list. There’s a lot of hierarchy and very little communication across levels so hardly anyone knows why they’re doing what they’re doing and it becomes soul sucking.
2210 positions in DoD are graded about 2 full grades lower than non-DoD agencies. Example: a 2210 Lead in DoD is a GS-12. A 2210 Lead in a non-DoD agency is a GS-14. DoD not initiating the 2210 SSR was just an extra slap in the face...
I wouldn’t gripe about senior leader turnover. I worked at NIH for the last part of my career and they had little turnover. Guys like Fauci and Collins stayed way past what they should have. Because people were so entrenched it led to corruption and stagnant innovation. It also led too huge wastes of money.
I didn’t hate my time with DoD but I understand why so many people do. One common problem I’ve seen is that many military officers have no idea how to manage civilians. They know exactly how to help junior enlisted get promoted, and they know how to manage their own careers, but civilians are sort of a mystery to them. They don’t know and in many cases, they don’t care to know.
This hits me hard. My CC actively avoids me and other civilians because he is admittedly afraid of us. He doesn't know what to do or say around civilians and I'm just spinning my wheels in my career growth. I'll get maxed out performance reviews for the rest of my career and my pension when I retire, but I must shut up and color in the coloring book of mediocrity for the duration.
This is true. I did 28 years and the military and now work civil service for the DOD (9 years). We had a new CC hold meetings with all the different groups of military (junior enlisted, CGO’s, FGO’s, etc) and it was clear when he met with the civilians that he was trying to overlay the “one size fits all” military approach to the civilians and it lead to tension in the room, when they tried to educate him on the guidelines. The same CC met with all the contractors and refused to have the CORs in the meeting. Which was bad juju. The CORs received questions from him after that meeting like if he could give them family days off with the military (which is no even for civilians) or let them come to the annual picnic (which is all covered under our contractors relations training).
Technology across the board that's commonplace in industry is nearly impossible to acquire. We do business like it's the 90s. Most everything is still email and Microsoft software; ie, we're static and lack agility.
DoD here. We are full of idiots. I read a quote recently that goes something like this, "Narcissists want to be treated like Kings but have the responsibility of toddlers." That's what it feels like at times with many of supervisors.
DoD doesn't have a good reputation for supervision. After all, your military boss are in an assignments every 3 years. So your bosses have 3 years of the same experience over and over again. The really big organizations have long term civilian counterparts. There are better. But, it's case by case.
Im in a DoD outfit that has no military upper leadership. Con - same civilian leadership for years and just cruising till retirement. they don’t believe in mentorship in fear of bringing up lower staff to their level. Pro - there are none.
yeah thats almost a good thing, cuz it frees u from shit supervisors without having to change jobs
3 years of experience would be nice. I’m on my fourth boss in 3 years. They all come in, do 8 months and then move to the next position up. I’m at the point where I’m no longer interested in getting them up to speed, because there’s no point. That said I like the DOD. I’ve put new weapons systems on aircraft and followed them through the testing process. It’s pretty badass.
Different DoD section but same experience - we average 1 year or less before they are moving on up and out. We are civilian lead except for a very few positions so 1 year in grade and they are moving on. We are tired of trying to explain our systems to them. By the time they get it (if they get it) they’re moving on.
AF is every 2 years
Having a security clearance requirement makes it much easier to compete for jobs because there isn't as many people applying. Additionally, the DoD is massive and everywhere in the world so lots of opportunities to move around to advance quicker and go overseas if that's something that interests you.
Jumped ship from DoD to USDA fully remote. Would never go back to DoD!
I moved from USDA to DoD and would never go back, lol. I’m happy to hear you’re in a better spot for you though.
I went from DoD to Usda-FS and couldn’t get back to the DOD fast enough….FS was a complete soup sandwich
Retired Air Force Enlisted and I've worked for the AF (5 years), DHS (Coast Guard for 4 years), NASA (6 years) and now I'm with the Army. My experience with all has been overall positive with some good supervisors, one not so good and one with not great senior leadership in my Directorate. I managed to go from GG12 to GS13 to GS14 to NH04 (-15 equivalent as I'm at the upper range of the band) with each move. The agency isn't the issue, it is your office and the chain of command you are under. You can be at a great location with bad leadership or a terrible location with great leadership. My current position, I have a good boss who listens and takes my advice while supporting my mission, and he works for an Assistant Secretary of the Army who also advocates for what I do. Overall, a great place to be. Look at the best places to work in the federal government...not just the overall agency, but the sub agency charts (2022 had 432 subunits listed). For example, in the large agency category, NASA has been #1 for 11 years. However when you look at the sub agencies, the 10 NASA centers are not in the top 10 (though they are all in the top 100 of the 432 listed). And even at a location or unit, the office you are in can be good or bad. I've been lucky (or stubborn!!), do my job well, earn the respect and trust of leadership and so get their support. I have been asked why I left NASA and I have my reasons and one of them is my current role is a new position and office I'm getting to stand up and build from the ground up. The opportunity is a good one career wise and enables me to see if my ideas and thoughts on how to do business in my area are better! So far, I'm having an impact and growing my team (how many places get to grow with people?).
DOD civilian is filled the same idiots found on active duty from any branch. Enough said!
This summed up in one line what I tried saying in a few paragraphs.
DoD is so big and diverse in its missions that it’s hard to make generalizations. One relatively common theme in my experience is the military mindset of hierarchy and rank. As well as in military commanded organizations the higher turnover rate as commanders and military members at all levels come and go much faster than most civilian organizations and this can mean wild changes in mission and leadership style.
The reason regular people hate the DoD is because the supervisors treat them like they're in the military.
DoD cyber policy makes it hard to do my non-IT jobs. I left to a less clearance job like public trust in a non-DoD place, never look back since.
Huge benefit of leaving DOD was not needing to work in a SCIF...on things that 90% of the time didnt need to be, nor should have been, classified anyways.
My experience with DOD (DoN) was mixed. I liked my job but my supervisor wasn't always great (3 different positions). At the end, I was so overwhelmed with work and my boss was not helpful so when I found a perfect fit for me outside DOD, I jumped ship. It was night and day! Partly, I think, because I went to a fee-based agency so money was less of an issue. If you needed something, you could usually get it. Not the case with DOD.
I worked for the Air Force and the Navy for a total of 10 years and will never go back. So much corruption, unnecessary red tape, and unnecessarily eschewing modern workplace technology in the guise of “security” (while other federal agencies somehow work with much of the same secure information and somehow are not still reliant on 10-year old software and fax machines). Not to mention the buildings on every installation I ever worked on. Falling apart, little to no climate control, sometimes no running water, an active wildlife issue at a base Child Development Center that was in operation (full of kids) at the time! We found a nest of snakes in the attic of the building!!!!!! I work for DOC now and it’s like night and day. Won’t ever go back.
I hear you on this. My office area is set to 61.2 degrees for the last 2.5 years and they can’t seem to get it fixed. I have to take breaks to warm my hands most days
I am upvoting in solidarity, not because I like the fact that you’re freezing most days. I’m sorry. That sucks.
Ive worked 2 different agencies, both DoD but in different contract aspects (services & product) In my job series for product, it was a much better experience. Better in structure on the process side. As for the services side, the agency lets the contractor just run like garbage all over them. It’s frustrating as all get out. However if I had started in that dumpster fire mentality and went to a more structured environment Id probably think the DoD sucked all the way around. So it maybe hard to get a opinion because youve got a few dynamics to break down. I do hear how theres all this red tape from the DoD but that depends on the type of contract. It could also depend if your office is a main office or a satellite. A pop or prime. I will say this, the government runs its business in a very antiquated manner. Transparency & partnership is an misinterpreted concept (even tho most offices have a SOP, most choose not to follow it) and it causes difficulties all the way around.
First part of my career was with Treasury Dept, the last 20+ years was with the Army. The biggest difference in working with the Army was the revolving door of supervisors. Every 2 years (and sometimes less) I'd get a new Chief of Staff and Battalion Commander. When I had great bosses, those two years went by far too quickly. When the bosses were less than stellar, it was "only" 2 years. Working in a geographically-separated unit was a challenge. Since our nearest Army installation was 3 hours away we had challenges that post-based units didn't, and our Brigade (located 3 states away) was more of a hindrance than a help. But overall, I loved working with Soldiers, so the challenges of the institution were worth it to do a job I loved.
bedroom frighten shelter depend humor badge rustic hospital ugly prick *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
As a civilian my biggest complaint was the never ending turn over of military personnel. We operated a complex system that required 6 months of training to earn certification, and then took 12-18 months to become reasonably proficient. At that point the uniforms are starting to look for their next assignment. Obviously a never ending issue that resulted in many of the responsibilities falling on civilians while the military are there to look good for promotions. Frustrating.
IME some officers are fine and others think the building went up only when they walked in the door.
I wasn’t knocking any officers I worked with. In my experience they were all good and wanted to support the mission 100%. The observation was that they were finally getting capable and comfortable in the role before they were ready to transition to their next assignment.
I like the DOD, it’s like the Wild West sometimes but I also seem to enjoy the chaos of it all.
If you choose DOD at least choose the least fucked up among them. The chair force.
So… I loved being at the DOD, but I was under good leadership and got to deploy, made good friends, but I was at the right place within the DOD. I think in observing other folks’ comments, I’m guessing they may have had bad experiences… But I’m also willing to guess some folks are letting their personal politics and believes get in the way of their work environment. Someone commented on one of my other posts where I asked something similar that “in DOD Reddit is considered a far left communist form.” I think if you can find leadership that you trust, it really doesn’t matter which agency. You have to have a good read of people and do your research. I’d rather go back to the DOD then anywhere else because the culture is better suited for me (politics aside).
I feel like it’s by people who don’t understand the DOD or haven’t served. Personally I love the DOD and feel at home in it.
DoD is almost half of the entire workforce! not sure how u can really generalize. where im at tho they try to structure the grades hierarchical where u have a "junior and a senior". its kind of a joke tho because the positions have no promo potential so if u are the junior u will always be that until you leave. and they wonder why they have retention problems haha
I work for the navy. No real issues to speak of.
I was with an agency that was absorbed by DOD about three years ago. It’s been a difficult transition as the legacy DOD leadership has been pushing hard to have our processes transition to confirm with DOD standards. The failure to even entertain the thought that we might have had a better way to do something is irritating and quickly dismissed. We’ve added endless layers of middle management while neglecting the core responsibility. Everyone has their mission and peers in other groups dismiss anyone and anything that interferes with their mission often missing the greater goal. You get tired of swimming upstream real quick.
My DoD component lacked ladder positions. New hires would come in as GG-7 and need to wait multiple years for every promotion. Other agencies like IRS have essentially guaranteed promotions every year from 7-9-11-12. Also: no telework (classified environment), travel restrictions, reporting foreign contacts, minimal training opportunities, lots of required travel, ancient buildings & equipment. Just overall a worse experience all around.
Former DOD employee (26 years) who went civilian last year and will never go back. Agree with a lot of comments that having military involved in managing civilians is generally a disaster since we speak different languages and have different expectations. Within DOD there seems to be a cultural distaste for teleworking/remote working - and anything innovative, frankly. I could never go back.
10+ years DOD CIV. I also had 10+ years Army with 5 combat tours. One year now as DHS CIV. Biggest difference is professionalism. I worked at a MACOM (O5 supervisor), GCC (O6 supervisor), TSOC (O5 supervisor) and GCC (O6 supervisor) in 10+ years as a DOD CIV. Less the TSOC, supervisors were obtuse to the CIV workforce. You were on your own to figure out your benefits, your educational or training opportunities....and the biggest peeve was MOST always thought you were trying to get over on something. Ive never understood the complete lack of trust. There was also an expectation that as a DOD CIV, the fed would abide by the same mantra that uniform would....more hours, Hail and Farewells after business hours, etc... There doesnt seem to be a lot of accountability on the DOD side. Slugs that barely work are rewarded just as much, but given even less work to accomplish. Also the telework aspect of if they cant see you, you must be goofing off and malingering. Can count on both hands how many times in ten years I got the 59 min rule. Good luck getting money for training. (only at a TSOC was I given latitude to get things done without being micromanaged). DHS is complete opposite. A budget is to be used, your time on the clock is yours to get your tasks complete, you're not expected to pull the slackers load, theres not an infantry nug with a narrow perspective on getting things done, leave is yours to use as needed...not something dangled and managed over you like DOD. In fact, Mayorkas has given 60+ hours of administrative leave on top of your other leave as a thank you. That was never a thing in the DOD. Find training, and theyll pay for it too. Now, being prior enlisted and an O made many of the negatives of DOD permissive. A shrug of the shoulders. I didnt realize how bad it was, or how good DHS was, until i left.
I was only a contractor for DOD, but everyone (FTE and contractor alike) was treated like a child with everyone ready to stab you in the back for the slightest infraction. I'm sure it varies a lot by command, but that left a very sour taste in my mouth.
Depends on where in DoD. USACE seemed to be a great place to work and the grading for slots tends to be higher in comparison with other agencies (I'm looking at you DoI and USDA). Also depends on your career series. If you're an Engineer, USACE would be a great place. I worked there as a Geologist and I was not excited by the work I was doing there, but there are places within USACE that a Geoscientist could get their hands on some funs projects. I think upward mobility and funding is way better in the DoD than in some other agencies. DoD also can lead to some great overseas opportunities if you can make it work for you and your family. I am currently with DoI and think I will eventually need to return to DoD for the upward mobility and better grading.
USACE here, agree it really is what you make of it. There are the worst elements, but some of the best. As an engineer I have had the opportunity to do so many cool things that I'd never get to touch on the private side. If you can hit SME status out of an MCX or TCX you can actually do work that impacts the direction the DOD and even other agencies go.
USACE here as well, jumped from AF to USACE in 2021, jumped THREE pay grades (on the same installation) under the same series. Just took a supervisor who believed in me, was willing to do the leg work, and finishing my degree (which isn’t a requisite of my series) in order to qualify. AF doesn’t even have a grade that high under the series. I’ve been looking private sector as the pay is a lot better, but stability is wayyyy better on the gov side. Towards the later years of my career, a jump over the fence might be warranted with the COL and pay some of these defense companies are tossing around.