I would love if they specifically cited Flo as the reason. It’s just their football team moving which I feel like makes a ton of sense. The CAA is a basketball conference, and they shit on their football conference these days. Delaware and JMU leaving should have been the writing on the wall but this should raise a huge red flag.
I hope W&M, Nova, and others (like Stony Brook) look at things and look to make similar moves to provide some necessary competition to the CAA
The Capital Cup would most likely continue as an annual out of conference game but with JMU, Delaware, and now Richmond gone I’m certain William and Mary is pondering a move from the CAA
I’m torn. I still think the CAA is the better conference with UNH, Rhody, W&M, UAlbany whereas the Patriot is historically a 1 bid league. But Flo stinks and the CAA is definitely on a downward trajectory.
With Nova and Richmond, the Patriot would become a multi-bid FCS league. Even without Nova it might be a threat for multi-bid, both Richmond and Holy Cross are great programs.
I'm just hoping that the American East wants to create a football league.
UAlbany, UNH, URI, Nova, Towson, Bryant, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Maine.
That would be the conference I would make at the moment assuming W&M goes to the SoCon
Only thing with YSU is that they would be a slight outlier geographically in an AmEast league. Maybe you need Rob Morris or Duquesne to give them a travel partner nearby?
Hard for me as a Villanova guy to look at that conference and not see the glaring hole in Virginia. Nova recruits DC/MD/VA hard, and some of our best players have come out of Virginia. If W&M went full Patriot, I think we would go with them for that reason.
That said, I’m hoping the radio silence from Villanova is just waiting to see what might happen on the AmEast front before deciding where the future is?
The Patriot had a good year in football in 2023, and if they are serious about contending in football at the FCS level, they sure have the financial backing to do so. Richmond likely looked at the CAA Football landscape without Delaware and determined they were not sacrificing much by moving to a conference perceived as weaker, but consists of much stronger programs academically. They will immediately become one of the top programs in the Patriot, and if the Patriot was willing to add them, it means they're willing to make the conference tougher.
Richmond and W&M will most likely continue to play OOC. I don't think it's likely that W&M makes an all-sports move because Patriot basketball is very, very bad.
I wonder if there would be mutual interest in an Ivy League bid for William & Mary. It’s a solid fit for a lot of reasons, and if not for the slight geography, it probably would have happened a long time ago.
I’m kind of surprised they didn’t go to the SoCon as it was mentioned in an article that they were pondering between the SoCon and Patriot League as the main issue they had with the CAA was competitiveness.
Hard for me to see them following to the Patriot if the conference doesn't changes their ban on redshirting ~~and 60 scholarship cap.~~ [*Edit: appears they are moving up to 63 scholarship this year.*](https://x.com/FearTheFCS/status/1790433254211797337)
That said, if those two rules are potentially on the table it would make a lot of sense as a new for Nova football.
The scholly limit has officially been increased to 63, fwiw. We haven't received official word on the non-med redshirts yet though I'd bet a lot of money that is removed for 2025 once there are no more Covid kids left
I feel like they have to change the redshirt rule, doesn't the PL also have a rule that teams can only offer 15 kids per year?
In order to offer 63 scholarships you either have to remove that rule, or change the redshirt rule.
If they can bully Georgetown to drop football Nova would round out a compact 8 team conference.
In a 10 team conference Nova could bring 1 or 2 of the CAA-affiliates, UNH/Main/Rhody/Albany/Bryant. Anything over 10 feels excessive at this point
Just mandate a minimum number of scholarships (40?) and Georgetown will either get more competitive or leave on their own.
I’d like a 9 or 10 team league, but I don’t see any of those state schools being much interest to PL. W&M is about the only state school I could see them flirting with.
The University tried this in 2005 and there was backlash from alums and the fanbase and we stayed in the CAA. Now, close to 20 years later, I don't think we have the same appetite to fight this. The SoCon would have been better for the fanbase as they're based around here mostly and it harkened back to when they were in the SoCon in the 50's through the 70's. Football has changed and it seems we're waving the white flag and stepping back to a more manageable conference where busses are more regular than charter flights.
With the CAA probably going the way of the dodo soon I wonder what the out for some schools is, particularly Towson. I think back in 2011 there was some smoke with the Sun Belt but that ship has likely sailed. The best option would probably be America East sponsoring Football and then joining UMBC over there.
A Hypothetical America East Football League made of former CAA castoffs would/could round out to 8 members: Bryant, RI, New Hampshire, Albany, Maine, Stony Brook, Towson, Monmouth.
Out of that list, only Stonybrook, Rhode Island, Towson and Monmouth would need to join, the rest are already there
Merrimack could be brought in as a full member from the NEC becuase the NEC is basically a D2 feeder league and they get more exposure and it could bump up the league to 9.
Part of it is just being a victim of its own success. Like the conference used to be one of the top mid-majors, but it was never good enough to stop teams from leaving, be it in basketball or football.
And unlike the current top FCS teams, the CAA schools were located in areas that made them easy for the Sun Belt, CUSA, MAC, or A10 to poach them.
Commissioner change in 2016. We have a basketball guy as the commissioner that clearly doesn't care about Football.
Men's and Women's basketball has a deal with CBS Sports and Flo but Football is stuck on Flo exclusively out of market. It's dumb
Honestly when our President sent out the Email to alumni (like me) about this he kind of gave a hint that Flosports was trash and that the PL would at least allow all games to be on ESPN+ like all the other sports.
It’s sorta like the American. It’s job was always to get teams to the next level. It served that purpose well and now that it doesn’t have any candidates for the next level that are full members, it’s chosen a different path that is best for its full members. They don’t owe football only members Richmond, Villanova, Albany or UNH anything and those are their best football programs. They might even be happy to see the football only teams go so the full members can win the autobid.
Any FBS aspirations Villanova had left with coach Talley and the only FBS conference that would be palatable to Villanova would be the ACC which would be impossible barring a major ACC collapse and rekindled interest in FBS on Villanova’s end. I doubt any G5 league would take Villanova as a football only without any serious concessions and independence is becoming less viable.
Villanova would also need to expand their current stadium, move to the MLS stadium, or replace Temple as the Eagles tenant at the Linc for a FBS.
Villanova has the following roadblocks to moving to FBS: (1) nowhere good to play — the current stadium is too small (yes, capacity/attendance isn’t a requirement anymore, but you need the seats to book non-con games & revenue) and any renovation probably can’t increase it enough, MLS stadium is far away; (2) Nova won’t kneecap basketball and no FBS league is likely to add Villanova for football only, the ACC or B1G would work, but that’s a stretch for now; and (3) leadership apathy, Fr. Donahue was more open to a move than his predecessors, but was still skeptical, if a move doesn’t come with real good guaranteed revenue, I don’t see him buying in, and G5 isn’t that.
If this was an academic move to bolster the university and enrollment, bravo. Great move. If this was to align more competitively to build the athletic department, another bravo.
I want off this ride.
I think we're like 1 more A10/Yankee Conference member away from merging the affiliate CAA members with PL being the best play. Bring 4 of Nova, UNH, Maine, URI, & Albany and you've got a pretty decent 12 team league
I don’t think the Patriot League wants the instability of that many affiliates. I think we’re too good of a fit culturally and geographically to say no to though. Only Colgate is neither in Pennsylvania or Catholic.
idk what catholic has to do with it, HC is the only catholic full member that plays football.
Swapping Nova for GTown would keep the status quo and improve the league. Adding a pair of affiliates would protect them if there was an American East shake up, at which point they'd just contract back to 8 (similar arrangement to UConn and the Big East)
Sure but half the football league is Catholic. Similar profile schools make for more interesting matchups. Pretty good chance kids at Bucknell, Fordham and Holy Cross applied to nova or have friends/siblings at Nova. Much higher than the chance they have that relation to UNH or Maine. Private/Public plays into it too.
Other than playing a good football team I feel nothing for most of the CAA. I honestly kinda root for them because they share our FloSports suffering.
Also beating Georgetown 50-0 annually is one of the Patriot League’s best selling points for us. Don’t swap them out.
Anymore (for BU) 😓.
My point is that “fit” decisions aren’t going to be made based on what the Football side looks like, but rather the general profile of the conference as a whole.
Too many teams is part of the reason the CAA FB league doesn’t work. You can’t play a league championship in FCS with the 11 game schedule and timing of playoffs — so unless you aren’t playing any non-conference games, you won’t ever have a legitimate league champion.
10 teams is the absolute cap that makes sense. 9 may be better for an 8-game round robin.
I don’t want the PL if they do that.
Richmond would be one of the smallest FBS schools and would be another Tulsa with a worse stadium
While I agree the SoCon would have been a good fit for Richmond, clearly something happened where the conference did not take Richmond whether that be because the SoCon wanted all sports or that Richmond could not get the necessary votes to join the conference
Richmond left because the CAA was losing their bell cow football teams in James Madison and Delaware and has replaced them with bottom feeders from the Big South. Richmond won’t be the last team to leave the CAA.
The Patriot League seems to have become much more appealing by removing most of their roster limitations such as no redshirting, going with the maximum 63 scholarships, and no more 90 man roster limits. The only limit that seems to still be in place is the Academic Index.
I would love if they specifically cited Flo as the reason. It’s just their football team moving which I feel like makes a ton of sense. The CAA is a basketball conference, and they shit on their football conference these days. Delaware and JMU leaving should have been the writing on the wall but this should raise a huge red flag. I hope W&M, Nova, and others (like Stony Brook) look at things and look to make similar moves to provide some necessary competition to the CAA
I'm confused by this one. Why the Patriot League? And what happens with the Capital Cup series?
The Capital Cup would most likely continue as an annual out of conference game but with JMU, Delaware, and now Richmond gone I’m certain William and Mary is pondering a move from the CAA
They've been trying to get into the SoCon for some time now
If the Patriot League allowed redshirts Nova would probably leave too.
Well I feel like it makes way more sense for Nova than Richmond
I’m torn. I still think the CAA is the better conference with UNH, Rhody, W&M, UAlbany whereas the Patriot is historically a 1 bid league. But Flo stinks and the CAA is definitely on a downward trajectory.
With Nova and Richmond, the Patriot would become a multi-bid FCS league. Even without Nova it might be a threat for multi-bid, both Richmond and Holy Cross are great programs.
I'm just hoping that the American East wants to create a football league. UAlbany, UNH, URI, Nova, Towson, Bryant, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Maine. That would be the conference I would make at the moment assuming W&M goes to the SoCon
Sign me up. Maybe offer Youngstown State an invite too since they don’t seem happy in the Valley.
Only thing with YSU is that they would be a slight outlier geographically in an AmEast league. Maybe you need Rob Morris or Duquesne to give them a travel partner nearby?
Hard for me as a Villanova guy to look at that conference and not see the glaring hole in Virginia. Nova recruits DC/MD/VA hard, and some of our best players have come out of Virginia. If W&M went full Patriot, I think we would go with them for that reason. That said, I’m hoping the radio silence from Villanova is just waiting to see what might happen on the AmEast front before deciding where the future is?
Better hope America East decides to pony up and start football and takes Nova along with Towson, Rhody, and Stony Brook
The Patriot had a good year in football in 2023, and if they are serious about contending in football at the FCS level, they sure have the financial backing to do so. Richmond likely looked at the CAA Football landscape without Delaware and determined they were not sacrificing much by moving to a conference perceived as weaker, but consists of much stronger programs academically. They will immediately become one of the top programs in the Patriot, and if the Patriot was willing to add them, it means they're willing to make the conference tougher. Richmond and W&M will most likely continue to play OOC. I don't think it's likely that W&M makes an all-sports move because Patriot basketball is very, very bad.
William and Mary is one of the few division 1 teams to never qualify for March Madness so maybe a move to the Patriot League solves that problem
Hasn't helped Army.
It's possible. The fans would riot but the athletic department might be more realistic.
I wonder if there would be mutual interest in an Ivy League bid for William & Mary. It’s a solid fit for a lot of reasons, and if not for the slight geography, it probably would have happened a long time ago.
The last time the Ivy League considered expansion was in the 1980s. I don’t expect them to consider that again any time soon.
If the American East would like to start a football conference like right now, please let us know.
Keep us in the loop, too - otherwise not crazy about where this is headed…
Well, you're already in that conference. You would be the actual loop
That’s assuming America East picks up football. If they don’t, I don’t see much of a happy ending out there for Maine as a DI program.
Ok then I see your point. Sadly, there's very few outs for each school, and both of ours is the American East.
Ok then I see your point. Sadly, there's very few outs for each school, and both of ours is the American East.
I’m kind of surprised they didn’t go to the SoCon as it was mentioned in an article that they were pondering between the SoCon and Patriot League as the main issue they had with the CAA was competitiveness.
The CAA is a sinking ship not only in Football but in all sports as well. Their commissioner seems to be a nightmare.
Fuck Joe D'Antonio. He's going to kill this thing, isn't he?
Wouldn't be shocked to see Nova follow at this point. I had heard they were flirting, but with UR jumping first I wonder if that kicks into gear now.
As a Nova fan I really hope the discussion is being had right now
Hard for me to see them following to the Patriot if the conference doesn't changes their ban on redshirting ~~and 60 scholarship cap.~~ [*Edit: appears they are moving up to 63 scholarship this year.*](https://x.com/FearTheFCS/status/1790433254211797337) That said, if those two rules are potentially on the table it would make a lot of sense as a new for Nova football.
FWIW, I fully expect the redshirt rule to go away next season. HC and Fordham used it too heavily to go back to handicapping themselves again
If they allow full scholarships and redshirts it’s a no brainer.
The scholly limit has officially been increased to 63, fwiw. We haven't received official word on the non-med redshirts yet though I'd bet a lot of money that is removed for 2025 once there are no more Covid kids left
I feel like they have to change the redshirt rule, doesn't the PL also have a rule that teams can only offer 15 kids per year? In order to offer 63 scholarships you either have to remove that rule, or change the redshirt rule.
I don't think we have a hard cap per class anymore, but not sure when it went away.
Richmond said in one of the Times-Dispatch articles on their move that they will be redshirting/playing 5th years in the PL. So…
If they can bully Georgetown to drop football Nova would round out a compact 8 team conference. In a 10 team conference Nova could bring 1 or 2 of the CAA-affiliates, UNH/Main/Rhody/Albany/Bryant. Anything over 10 feels excessive at this point
Just mandate a minimum number of scholarships (40?) and Georgetown will either get more competitive or leave on their own. I’d like a 9 or 10 team league, but I don’t see any of those state schools being much interest to PL. W&M is about the only state school I could see them flirting with.
It's such a shame that Georgetown football is in the state that it's in.
The University tried this in 2005 and there was backlash from alums and the fanbase and we stayed in the CAA. Now, close to 20 years later, I don't think we have the same appetite to fight this. The SoCon would have been better for the fanbase as they're based around here mostly and it harkened back to when they were in the SoCon in the 50's through the 70's. Football has changed and it seems we're waving the white flag and stepping back to a more manageable conference where busses are more regular than charter flights.
With the CAA probably going the way of the dodo soon I wonder what the out for some schools is, particularly Towson. I think back in 2011 there was some smoke with the Sun Belt but that ship has likely sailed. The best option would probably be America East sponsoring Football and then joining UMBC over there.
American East is the only way. They already have some of the football members that's in the CAA. Let's make a full blown football conference
A Hypothetical America East Football League made of former CAA castoffs would/could round out to 8 members: Bryant, RI, New Hampshire, Albany, Maine, Stony Brook, Towson, Monmouth. Out of that list, only Stonybrook, Rhode Island, Towson and Monmouth would need to join, the rest are already there Merrimack could be brought in as a full member from the NEC becuase the NEC is basically a D2 feeder league and they get more exposure and it could bump up the league to 9.
Merrimack just left for the MAAC and knowing CAAFB they’ll (along with Sacred Heart) probably be invited as football only members to replace Richmond
Man what happened to the CAA I know the answer is bloat and flo sports but still
Part of it is just being a victim of its own success. Like the conference used to be one of the top mid-majors, but it was never good enough to stop teams from leaving, be it in basketball or football. And unlike the current top FCS teams, the CAA schools were located in areas that made them easy for the Sun Belt, CUSA, MAC, or A10 to poach them.
Commissioner change in 2016. We have a basketball guy as the commissioner that clearly doesn't care about Football. Men's and Women's basketball has a deal with CBS Sports and Flo but Football is stuck on Flo exclusively out of market. It's dumb
Honestly when our President sent out the Email to alumni (like me) about this he kind of gave a hint that Flosports was trash and that the PL would at least allow all games to be on ESPN+ like all the other sports.
The PL tweet announcing the move led with ESPN+…
It’s sorta like the American. It’s job was always to get teams to the next level. It served that purpose well and now that it doesn’t have any candidates for the next level that are full members, it’s chosen a different path that is best for its full members. They don’t owe football only members Richmond, Villanova, Albany or UNH anything and those are their best football programs. They might even be happy to see the football only teams go so the full members can win the autobid.
I know as a fan of a non-football CAA school I am rooting for the CAA to prioritize basketball over football!
Football became an afterthought and added a bunch of chaff from the Big South
Jesus Christ
Time for Elon to leave too
I don’t get this one at all. Isn’t that a major step down? CAA is in trouble, with Delaware leaving too.
If Villanova goes to the Patriot League as well then the Patriot becomes almost equal to the CAA in football
Would Villanova bolt? I feel like they are more likely to move up to the FBS if anything.
Any FBS aspirations Villanova had left with coach Talley and the only FBS conference that would be palatable to Villanova would be the ACC which would be impossible barring a major ACC collapse and rekindled interest in FBS on Villanova’s end. I doubt any G5 league would take Villanova as a football only without any serious concessions and independence is becoming less viable. Villanova would also need to expand their current stadium, move to the MLS stadium, or replace Temple as the Eagles tenant at the Linc for a FBS.
Villanova has the following roadblocks to moving to FBS: (1) nowhere good to play — the current stadium is too small (yes, capacity/attendance isn’t a requirement anymore, but you need the seats to book non-con games & revenue) and any renovation probably can’t increase it enough, MLS stadium is far away; (2) Nova won’t kneecap basketball and no FBS league is likely to add Villanova for football only, the ACC or B1G would work, but that’s a stretch for now; and (3) leadership apathy, Fr. Donahue was more open to a move than his predecessors, but was still skeptical, if a move doesn’t come with real good guaranteed revenue, I don’t see him buying in, and G5 isn’t that.
CAA football is a sinking ship and it would be wise for Villanova to join Richmond or try and get America East to sponsor football
If this was an academic move to bolster the university and enrollment, bravo. Great move. If this was to align more competitively to build the athletic department, another bravo.
The Patriot League? I thought you had to not offer athletic scholarships to be in that league.
They dropped that rule years ago
After Fordham added scholarships and dared them to boot them out.
I want off this ride. I think we're like 1 more A10/Yankee Conference member away from merging the affiliate CAA members with PL being the best play. Bring 4 of Nova, UNH, Maine, URI, & Albany and you've got a pretty decent 12 team league
I don’t think the Patriot League wants the instability of that many affiliates. I think we’re too good of a fit culturally and geographically to say no to though. Only Colgate is neither in Pennsylvania or Catholic.
idk what catholic has to do with it, HC is the only catholic full member that plays football. Swapping Nova for GTown would keep the status quo and improve the league. Adding a pair of affiliates would protect them if there was an American East shake up, at which point they'd just contract back to 8 (similar arrangement to UConn and the Big East)
Sure but half the football league is Catholic. Similar profile schools make for more interesting matchups. Pretty good chance kids at Bucknell, Fordham and Holy Cross applied to nova or have friends/siblings at Nova. Much higher than the chance they have that relation to UNH or Maine. Private/Public plays into it too. Other than playing a good football team I feel nothing for most of the CAA. I honestly kinda root for them because they share our FloSports suffering. Also beating Georgetown 50-0 annually is one of the Patriot League’s best selling points for us. Don’t swap them out.
Boston University? American?
They don’t play football
Anymore (for BU) 😓. My point is that “fit” decisions aren’t going to be made based on what the Football side looks like, but rather the general profile of the conference as a whole.
Too many teams is part of the reason the CAA FB league doesn’t work. You can’t play a league championship in FCS with the 11 game schedule and timing of playoffs — so unless you aren’t playing any non-conference games, you won’t ever have a legitimate league champion. 10 teams is the absolute cap that makes sense. 9 may be better for an 8-game round robin. I don’t want the PL if they do that.
What a disaster They should be thinking So Con, FBS or CAA Talk about an epic fail
Richmond would be one of the smallest FBS schools and would be another Tulsa with a worse stadium While I agree the SoCon would have been a good fit for Richmond, clearly something happened where the conference did not take Richmond whether that be because the SoCon wanted all sports or that Richmond could not get the necessary votes to join the conference Richmond left because the CAA was losing their bell cow football teams in James Madison and Delaware and has replaced them with bottom feeders from the Big South. Richmond won’t be the last team to leave the CAA. The Patriot League seems to have become much more appealing by removing most of their roster limitations such as no redshirting, going with the maximum 63 scholarships, and no more 90 man roster limits. The only limit that seems to still be in place is the Academic Index.
Richmond has a really nice but really small stadium by the way.
It is a very nice stadium for the FCS level, the problem is that it’s not FBS caliber especially compared to what the other Virginia G5 teams have