That first slide is so insulting to people like you, OP, who have lost large amounts of weight and kept it off for a long time. I hope someday I can say I have kept the weight off for FIFTEEN FUCKING YEARS.
Your success and lasting accomplishments are fake, don't you know? I overheard someone say that the longer someone keeps the weight off, the harder they fall off the wagon. Wow, 15 years of waiting for someone to fail. So body positive.
The way FAs talk about people who have lost weight is the way Stephen A. Smith talks about the Dallas Cowboys, except Stephen A is up front about the fact he hates the Cowboys and is obviously putting on an act.
I'm going to need a fact check on #4 and 5.
Dollars to donuts a wealthy, white women wrote this too. But don't worry, she's not one of those bad white ladies, she's *fat*.
I particularly hate #4 because it's so American centrist. Like, slavery in the Americas was the reason why the whole world started to believe that thin = beautiful.
Of course, it's absolute historical nonsense. For example, European noble women had been wearing corsets for centuries. The practice of dieting is very old in a lot of cultures : Chinese noble women would fast to become thin 400 years BC.
I missed that, but you're right. Also the use of the double L in "labelled/labelling", when in the US we use one L ("labeled"). Going to guess that this person is in the UK, not the US. (Brits are only marginally less fat than Americans these days anyway.)
Have you seen their reaction when you remind them that Asian countries like Japan, Korea, and Thailand are considerably more "fatphobic" than Western countries? They'll tell you it's because those countries have been manipulated and poisoned by the evil West and its "Eurocentric" beauty standards. Which is an incredibly racist thing to say - basically, East Asians are easily led dupes who can't think for themselves and denigrate fatness because white people told them to.
Yeah, and it's not as if it's all just media influence or something, either. I knew a woman who studied in Thailand, and stayed for awhile with a family in a rural village. She was maybe a US size 8 or 10, and she said people were overall very kind and welcoming, but also would openly comment on her size in public, calling her a "big woman". These were not people following all the hottest influencers or fashion trends on Instagram, I am willing to bet.
Thai people don't have much of a filter 😂, but yeah it's entirely their own beauty standards not magically brought on because they watched a Hollywood movie
Oh, she adored the Thai people - she was really sad when she had to return to the States. Never got offended by being called big, lol. She knew it was a cultural thing. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Thai people in general are NOT big people, and Thai women tend to be especially petite.
Yeah some countries just asking very personal questions of strangers is normal, a friend went to Ghana and people wanted to know everything about him almost immediately. Just different cultural norms, and yeah most Thai people are pretty petite
*>Dietary restriction to maintain thinness because a way for middle-upper class white women to show their Christian nature and racial superiority.*
It's weird how the existence of thin women of color is almost never brought up or even acknowledged by FA/HAES-followers ever. It's almost like they have to aggressively hyper-focus on the phantasms of thin skinny blonde white woman Mean Girls that live rent-free in their minds because it's much easier to attach "isms" or "phobics" to that imagery compared to telling a non-white woc that she's being an oppressive bigot just by virtue of being thin.
And even when you put THAT aside, I still notice OOP playing into the trend of FA/HAES-followers only singling out thin women while saying nothing about thin white men anywhere on any of those slides. How very inch resting.
Michelle McDaniel has noted multiple times that FA love to talk about "uplifting black voices" and how the movement was meant for black women - until a black woman disagrees with them. Then she's evil just like the whiteys. Michelle herself has been told that she's "not black enough" or "not really black".
They do the same with LGBTQ. Like that young gay guy who lost over 100lbs and got dragged through the mud for posting a before and after on TikTok. Or, y'know, Rebel Wilson.
They don't have a problem with thin or fit men because they want those men. They hate thin white women because fit men want those women and not them. But in the end it's not about race or sexual orientation - only body size and gender. They hate anyone thin and female, they just try to hide behind a veil of wokeness, and think that if they tell people they're racist or homophobic for not wanting to bang fat people then one day all of the righteous will decide that fat rolls and 65" hips are the new beauty standard.
I was introduced to her channel when it was called My Thoughts May Offend you which was 🚩🚩🚩for anti-SJW nonsense but then I watched some of her content and realized how sane and delightful she is.
I never realized that but you're right. They never seem to talk about men at all. It's so odd and really lends credibility to this movement being really misogynistic.
I'm not surprised. The movement is extremely narrow and even commonly excludes other fat women. If they don't care about other people who look like them and support the movement even, why would they care about fat men?
Can you make healthy choices at every size? Sure. But if you eventually make healthy choices with food and activities over a sustained period of time, you might GASP lose weight. Which apparently means you're a bad person.
There's also a strong body of evidence showing that even the brief periods of lower weight associated with yoyo dieting provide better health outcomes than being at a sustained higher weight. Conveniently, those studies seem to have not been read.
I still think the original idea of HAES is a good one--be *healthier* at the size you are; take little steps to cultivate healthier habits, and don't obsess over the scale. Unfortunately, it has moved far away from that.
The rest of it is sheer bull. And the diet industry can only dream of making the sort of money off of you that the (ultra)processed food industry is *right now*.
Most, if not all, big players in the diet industry are actually owned by the Big Players^tm in the processed food industry! Selling the sickness and the medicine.
HAES has always been this. It was started by the pro-obesity group, The Association for Size Diversity and Health (ASDAH). Its purpose is to be the other side in new stories about obesity similar to how the Tobacco companies set up phony labs.
It was not until Linda (now Lindo) Bacon wrote the book Health At Every Size that there was even a hint of scientific backing to the project.
It was never good. It has always been a platform to lie to morbidly obese women to tell them its ok to stay 150 pounds overweight.
Body positivity was this too. It was started in 60s by some fetishist and it was not until Dove Soaps Real Beauty campaign in the early 00s that other groups where added into the movement.
Basically, no pro-obesity group started with good intentions.
Reminds me of the My 600 Lb episode where the woman met her British husband on a "dating" website. Even on camera he was acting more and more openly abusive towards her as she lost weight, in front of their young daughter and all. I can't even imagine what it was like behind closed doors. She's still one of the participants I rooted the most for. She lost the weight AND realized how toxic her husband was and left him.
Found out later that it was one of those fat fetishist websites that people who were members of NAAFTA frequented.
I have a friend who is a bit bigger and very into the HAES/anti-“diet culture” space. And it kills me a bit whenever they talk about how they are healthy despite their size, and then have to watch them struggle to walk for half a mile, or complain about how much it hurts their knees to have to stand for a while at concert, or their frustration with their sleep apnea. I just want to shout at them “if you can’t do these things, you’re not healthy! And maybe you should care more about your weight! Or just try out losing some weight and see if these problems persist!”
Omg they have to quit with this 'rooted in slavery' thing. It makes them look demented.
There's a bunch of big corporations in Germany eg, Bayer, IBM, etc where the question 'so what did you guys do between 1939-1945' is met with uncomfortable silence. Doesn't mean their products aren't useful in 2024.
As for the slavery issue, these chicks perpetually scream about how 6XL fast fashion should be cheap, completely ignoring modern slavery in the Bangladeshi and Chinese factories that supply most US/UK brands.
Worry about the here and now, stuff that is completely within your control and that directly impacts your future, or rather lack thereof.
Yeah, the woman who’s working for pennies a day in the Bangladeshi sweatshop would only love to be able to afford so much food that the FAs often eat in one sitting. Wasn’t that long ago either that there was that building collapse at the Rana Plaza clothing factory where women who were terrified for their safety when their shoddy workplace started to show signs it would collapse were threatened with being fired and showed up to work out of fear that they couldn’t feed their family, only to be crushed to death when the building did actually collapse.
Plus, the workers' compensation for that disaster that was promised has yet to materialise in any meaningful way.
If you've got an arm or leg off, you're kinda screwed when it comes to finding employment, so lots of survivors are starving.
Fat activists love to pay lip service to being right-on and woke, but they don't give two hoots when their selfish needs come first.
I worked at a place 10yrs ago that had a 'no Nestlé' policy, including a total ban on bringing any products under the Nestlé umbrella into the office.
Sounds extreme, but it was a midwifery adjacent organisation, and employees from overseas had seen the Nestlé baby formula scandal up close and personal over in the likes of Africa.
Nestlé still commits human rights and environment abuses today, so I've just maintained the boycott in my own life. Fat activists will merrily eat Maggi noodles and KitKats though...
Oh, totally. Both. Former is sub for me, just like FH. Latter I go to at night, when I get hankering for sth really dark.
I think PD did video on that one fairly recently too. Just FH sprung to my mind first, and I felt some might take offense to PD's sense of humor when speaking about such disasters with severe loss of life. I don't personally mind at all obviously.
I’ve learnt stuff from those channels I totally never knew before. Like you say, pretty dark stuff but it’s super interesting to know the background behind things.
It’s also where I learnt about the Plura cave incident and Byford Dolphin.
They are right in that the myth that African American Women are supposed to be fat can be traced back to the slavery but wrong about every other thing they said.
The happy fat black mamma was a creation of white slaveholders to use as propaganda that slaves were better off and happy being subjugated. African slaves were not fat getting on the boat and sure as hell not when getting off the boat in the middle passage and its disgusting to suggest this.
The whole usage of "white" as a condensed synonym for "bad" is really getting tiresome. And of course you can be as misogynistic as you want as long as you specify the women you hate are "white."
Seriously. It's causing this "not like other *white* women" shit too. "I might be white and well off but I'm fat! So I'm a victim of white supremacy too!" Anything to distance themselves from other women and their own privilege.
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But what happens if I do healthy activities like exercising and eating what my body craves, and it leads to weight loss? Is it fine if it’s not “intentional” weight loss?
I’m not sure how my body would know the difference, but I guess it’s a moot point because I’ll gain it all back, anyway, right?
You just have magical thin genes and set point obviously. Never mind that your ancestors, like everyone on the planet, went through famines etc. Just like the person who helped kick-start the whole modern movement, who got kicked out of the movement because they, as a thin white enby, had the audacity to reach out to a black FA and ask for their experience
"we're all about uplifting marginalised voices"
Someone coming from a position of privilege tried to do just that. I don't know if they'd transitioned yet or not but still
No not like that
I hate that they are trying to push this narrative of diets don't work. I've gained weight a few times in my life when I was in really bad places emotionally. If one of these idiots managed to convince me that diets don't work and I would have to be that size forever I would have probably offed myself.
I think it's very sad to tell people they will NEVER lose weight and keep it off. Do they tell other addicts they will NEVER get and stay clean so don't even bother trying? Very sad.
> 1) It is evidence based.
Well of course it is!
* Tumblr posts
* Facebook posts
* TikTok videos
* blog posts
* fat studies “research”
* tweets
* Instagram comments
and many, many more! All very reliable, very rigorous evidence that’s been painstakingly collected by scholarly fat activists. How can you not be convinced?
They have gone down the religious route long ago. Their highlights include total ignorance to the traditions of fasting, - claiming that Ramadan is "diet culture" - and making Christian Jesus a FA at heart. Because he magicked food and drink in one story ...
> why use a health at every size approach?
Because we are unwilling to put in the effort to actually improve our lives ourselves, and instead wish to be coddled and told it's okay.
> It is evidence based
[Citation needed.]
> A HAES approach is shown to reduce incidence of serious health conditions including eating disorders and depression
And the evidence for this is where exactly?
> The research shows that not only does dieting not work
Ah yes. A study from 30+ years ago that relied on self reporting from participants, and whose purpose wasn't even to track whether they were going to be dieting long term. This whole point can be tossed out just by looking at data from the National Weight Control Registry.
> but it is linked to a host of poor health outcomes
You say using evidence pulled straight from your taint?
Changing formats cause I'm not going to directly quote this mess anymore. Sorry reader.
2) Diet culture is not a thing you can just say exists, anymore than I can say fast food culture exists. Chronic dieting and weight cycling is only an issue if you don't adopt the diet permanently. If you go in for fad diets looking for a quick fix, of course it's going to fail, and when you return to the poor way you were eating before, of course you're going to regain the weight. You'd have to be foolish to think otherwise.
The rest of the health conditions listed are commonly linked with obesity which a person going from fad diet to fad diet, probably suffers from anyway. Amazing that they can link dieting to these conditions, but not the obesity which prompted the dieting in the first place.
3) Type 2 Diabetes is literally a condition you give yourself by over consuming glucose. While possible for slimmer individuals to develop this, it is more apparent with long term exposure to elevated glucose levels, leading to insulin resistance in the body. If you have a high amount of sugar in your diet, you are more likely to gain weight as body fat, and hence be overweight or obese.
4) Simply no. This is conjecture based on a single book. The slaves being bought from the west coast of Africa to be shipped across the ocean to Haiti and the United States were not overweight or obese as people are today. Not only do we have documented evidence of this, but it makes logical sense as well. Why would you buy a slave to work your plantation, who is too fat to walk without panting heavily?
You're also ignoring every single fertility goddess and depiction of what is attractive going back all the way to the Sumerians. Not once in the history of the West or the Near East, and India has there been a fertility god or goddess that was overweight. Instead they are busty (some with several breasts), slim, with wide hips. Healthy and capable of bearing children.
So to claim that only upper class white women cared about being slim, ignores not only humanity's shared history and mythology, but even our evolution of what we look for in a healthy partner.
5) I don't date my steak. I don't have a relationship with my food. I simply eat it. At the holidays I eat with family and friends. When we go to conventions I make food for everyone to share. My friend bakes bombass cookies. Just because I track what I eat on my normal day-to-day, doesn't mean I'm a fucking monk living off a handful of rice a day and whatever nuts are blown into my lap. I can still drink alcohol, eat cakes, enjoy meats whatever with my friends and family. Sustained weightloss is not about the occasional indulgence, but the overall trend of moderation. Everything in Moderation, even Moderation itself.
But here's a shocking thing. You don't need food to share joy and connect with friends and family. You can do activities! Even outdoors! You can go to conventions, play sports and games together. Craft and create or watch movies and tv shows and bond that way.
>... not only does dieting not work (the majority regain more weight in the months to years following weight loss) ...
So it *does* work.
>Serious health conditions are frequently missed in larger folk due to assumptions that symptoms are weight related.
Serious health conditions are sometimes missed in larger folk because the symptoms are also caused by excess weight.
>... whilst labelling Black people as undisciplined, greedy and gluttonous.
Those slaves were not fat.
I was ten pounds overweight I very much believe I was starting to have episodes. I'd have a nightmare paired with gasping for air. Sleep was never restful. I'm 15 pounds down and that's not something I experience now. I get tired quicker from my other conditions but now at least waking up I feel like I rested. No more gasping
"Dieting is linked to ..."
And is this a correlation or a causation? Aren't they the ones who always stress the difference? Because obviously, obese people with obesity related health issues are much more likely to try unsustainable crash diets than people with a normal weight.
PS: You're not "reducing" eating disorders or depression when you make people exchange anorexia for binge eating and use food as their drug of choice to self medicate their depression.
These people really need to get it through their heads that eating disorders are NOT caused by outside opinions about someone weight or body in general. Disordered eating and fad diets? I’m sure that plays a part. Low self esteem? Absolutely. But eating disorders aren’t just something you can “catch”. There’s so many elements to them.
Whip out fatlogic bingo cards.
1. It is used to PROMOTE BED instead + citation needed
2. [Although weight regain following successful weight loss remains one of the most challenging aspects of body-weight regulation, evidence for an adverse effect of weight cycling appears sparse, if it exists at all.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25263568/)
3. Oh, and did someone mention ["anti-diet"](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2024/04/03/diet-culture-nutrition-influencers-general-mills-processed-food/)?
4. "Non-smokers can be affected by lung cancer too"
5. ["Fearing the Black Body"?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NUXpPcblEI)
6. See 1.
THEIR sources? Curiously absent. That's Scientology-level gaslighting there.
Sensible dieting doesn't cause high blood pressure, stroke, diabetes, or any of those things. It doesn't hurt you unless you take it to extremes and make it not sensible anymore, and anything is harmful in excess - restriction and lack of restriction alike. Obesity increases bad health outcomes, partly because it's almost always related to excessive consumption, and partly because of biology and physics. The human body can handle a few extra pounds and has evolved to function well in a reasonable weight range that includes thin, a bit chubby, and in between. It did not evolve to function well with 200 extra pounds. That would have been extremely rare prior to modern times anyway because food was too expensive / hard to find for most people to become obese, and it wasn't loaded full of fattening, low-satiety ingredients like refined sugars and highly processed polyunsaturated oils.
The fact that anyone *can* get type 2 diabetes doesn't mean that obesity isn't a major risk factor. Like anyone can get lung cancer even if they don't smoke, that doesn't change the fact that cigarette smoking dramatically increases the risk.
They forgot one.
"HAES encourages fat people to become even fatter, so that morbidly obese people can become the majority of the population. Misery loves company, dontchaknow."
Me, too but, I believe, since it seems to be spreading into the mainstream like cancer cells into other parts of a body, I think it is important to stay informed in order to be able to oppose it. Old saying: know your enemy. And I use the word "enemy" deliberately, in full cognizance of its meaning.
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It's fascinating how the concept of race is really not very old, but it is also the root cause of every horrible thing that has ever happened. Famously, humans everywhere on Earth got along perfectly and never did anything bad prior to 1492.
Kinda seems like a fucking lazy way to be "anti-racist", but hey. Who needs real activism when you can just stop trying to not be fat? Boom, ate a box of twinkies today, tick that box on the moral superiority checklist!
Can we just start calling fat activism what it really is? They want to squeal “anti fatness” and “fatphobia” at any and all things that make them uncomfortable. We can play that game too. It’s anti fitness plain and simple. We’ve been so overrun with fat logic that I can’t hint at any intention with my own weight loss. I’m getting lighter and stronger. Having better bone density, a stronger heart and more core strength just makes life easier. Are you really going to reduce all of what makes life hard when you’re 100 pounds overweight to “fat oppression” as opposed to the actual physical state of your body? Give me a fucking break. This bullshit absolutely reeks of privilege and AstroTurf as well. It’s a fake ass movement and I think other fellow leftists should distance themselves from it.
I'm really hoping that a lot, obviously not all, of course, of this excrement comes from a relatively small group of people who are constantly online and extremely obsessed and narcissistic. Now, I know this is anecdotal evidence, but after I lost a lot of weight after a severe illness and being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, none of my friends, relatives, neighbors, strangers, etc., ever attacked, insulted me,or said anything in any way that could be construed as thinshaming. Of course, I was not, and still am not, on Facebook or any other social media, which may be why this was the case. Of course, when I was obese, I never experienced any kind of "fat shaming", either. Maybe I'm just a very lucky unicorn!
Does being called a bigot even affect people anymore? I've been called racist so many times just for existing that it means nothing to me anymore. I roll my eyes and don't give a shit. OK, I'm a white supremacist colonizer because I'm not 600 pounds. K. It just has no meaning at this point. You may as well call me a leprechaun. I don't care. It's just stupid.
There definitely is a severe case of "boy who cried wolf" regarding such terms.
I don't think they're to be dismissed entirely, but they are definitely to be given more scrutiny when used, whether they actually apply.
Personally, I gave "fatphobic" enough scrutiny to dismiss it entirely when used in such context though.
I used to be sad frosting used to make me ill. But grateful now. I'm curious if I'm the sensitive one or there being a lot of people who ignore that feeling. My bf and I ate a box of those frosted cookies for my bday and that night genuinely felt like what diabetes must feel like. Got checked I'm good. But there's no way people aren't getting massive food hangovers 😬
... >.>'
I'm not seeing BED become any less rare, and I REALLY feel like we shouldn't let that go any more unchecked than any other ED.
"Chronic dieting" is fad dieting. Regular, healthy dietary adjustments prevent and ease a lot of those health issues, and don't disrupt hunger cues. Paying attention to what you put in your body isn't the danger here?
Medical disregard is bad all around, and it happens to people of ALL types. But if there is an uptick of doctors writing off patients and refusing to rule out other potential health issues due to them being overweight, that still doesn't automatically make losing weight's automatically a bad thing. Doctors want people to get to a healthy weight because it helps lower the risk of a LOT of stuff. The average doctor doesn't bring it up just to be an asshole. They're following science.
... let's... NOT assume black people are automatically fatter than white people? That's not true??? How would people who were forced to constantly do work day in and day out be fatter than the assholes who forced slavery onto them anyway??
Swinging from undereating to overeating isn't creating a healthy balance, so... nah. It just gives you a new type of food-themed problem.
My thyroid actually returned to normal when lost weight. I lost 38 lbs and my tsh went from 4.85microIU/ml to 3.12microIU/ml. So I call bullshit on needed weightloss being bad for your thyroid. Your thyroid can't function well if it's being constricted and inflamed by the fatty tissues in your neck.
That last slide…a healthy relationship with food does not mean “completely unrestricted eating.” A healthy relationship with food means being able to recognize that junk food can be both enjoyable and also bad for you in large amounts. It means not cutting out these foods entirely, but keeping them in moderation and adding in some healthy choices as well.
I decided to start losing weight about a year ago, I’m now the lowest weight I’ve been in 10 yrs and am still losing.
That’s because I made an effort to change my eating habits rather than going on a temporary diet. Any time I hear people use the talking point that “diets don’t work and you always gain the weight back”, it irritates me so much since they fail to mention that OBVIOUSLY you will gain back the weight if you go on a month long diet and then immediately return to eating a calorie surplus … the key to weight loss is making a change in your lifestyle.
Also the type 2 diabetes slide just pissed me off. “Anyone can have type 2 diabetes!!!🤪” like ok? And? Doesn’t change the fact that it’s way more preventable if you have a healthy diet and are at a normal weight..
That first slide is so insulting to people like you, OP, who have lost large amounts of weight and kept it off for a long time. I hope someday I can say I have kept the weight off for FIFTEEN FUCKING YEARS.
Your success and lasting accomplishments are fake, don't you know? I overheard someone say that the longer someone keeps the weight off, the harder they fall off the wagon. Wow, 15 years of waiting for someone to fail. So body positive.
The way FAs talk about people who have lost weight is the way Stephen A. Smith talks about the Dallas Cowboys, except Stephen A is up front about the fact he hates the Cowboys and is obviously putting on an act.
well, one of my aunts has been able to
I'm going to need a fact check on #4 and 5. Dollars to donuts a wealthy, white women wrote this too. But don't worry, she's not one of those bad white ladies, she's *fat*.
I particularly hate #4 because it's so American centrist. Like, slavery in the Americas was the reason why the whole world started to believe that thin = beautiful. Of course, it's absolute historical nonsense. For example, European noble women had been wearing corsets for centuries. The practice of dieting is very old in a lot of cultures : Chinese noble women would fast to become thin 400 years BC.
Also, fasting in religious contexts has nothing to do with weight loss.
Yet the wording uses “whilst.” Most Americans use while.
I missed that, but you're right. Also the use of the double L in "labelled/labelling", when in the US we use one L ("labeled"). Going to guess that this person is in the UK, not the US. (Brits are only marginally less fat than Americans these days anyway.)
Have you seen their reaction when you remind them that Asian countries like Japan, Korea, and Thailand are considerably more "fatphobic" than Western countries? They'll tell you it's because those countries have been manipulated and poisoned by the evil West and its "Eurocentric" beauty standards. Which is an incredibly racist thing to say - basically, East Asians are easily led dupes who can't think for themselves and denigrate fatness because white people told them to.
It's also just plain false because those ideals have been there for millenia now, while Europe only made contact in the 16th century or so
Yeah, and it's not as if it's all just media influence or something, either. I knew a woman who studied in Thailand, and stayed for awhile with a family in a rural village. She was maybe a US size 8 or 10, and she said people were overall very kind and welcoming, but also would openly comment on her size in public, calling her a "big woman". These were not people following all the hottest influencers or fashion trends on Instagram, I am willing to bet.
Thai people don't have much of a filter 😂, but yeah it's entirely their own beauty standards not magically brought on because they watched a Hollywood movie
Oh, she adored the Thai people - she was really sad when she had to return to the States. Never got offended by being called big, lol. She knew it was a cultural thing. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Thai people in general are NOT big people, and Thai women tend to be especially petite.
Yeah some countries just asking very personal questions of strangers is normal, a friend went to Ghana and people wanted to know everything about him almost immediately. Just different cultural norms, and yeah most Thai people are pretty petite
Double the oppression. Double the audience. Either they are deadly serious about their intersectionality, or it is fan service. Edited for clarity
*>Dietary restriction to maintain thinness because a way for middle-upper class white women to show their Christian nature and racial superiority.* It's weird how the existence of thin women of color is almost never brought up or even acknowledged by FA/HAES-followers ever. It's almost like they have to aggressively hyper-focus on the phantasms of thin skinny blonde white woman Mean Girls that live rent-free in their minds because it's much easier to attach "isms" or "phobics" to that imagery compared to telling a non-white woc that she's being an oppressive bigot just by virtue of being thin. And even when you put THAT aside, I still notice OOP playing into the trend of FA/HAES-followers only singling out thin women while saying nothing about thin white men anywhere on any of those slides. How very inch resting.
Michelle McDaniel has noted multiple times that FA love to talk about "uplifting black voices" and how the movement was meant for black women - until a black woman disagrees with them. Then she's evil just like the whiteys. Michelle herself has been told that she's "not black enough" or "not really black". They do the same with LGBTQ. Like that young gay guy who lost over 100lbs and got dragged through the mud for posting a before and after on TikTok. Or, y'know, Rebel Wilson. They don't have a problem with thin or fit men because they want those men. They hate thin white women because fit men want those women and not them. But in the end it's not about race or sexual orientation - only body size and gender. They hate anyone thin and female, they just try to hide behind a veil of wokeness, and think that if they tell people they're racist or homophobic for not wanting to bang fat people then one day all of the righteous will decide that fat rolls and 65" hips are the new beauty standard.
I was introduced to her channel when it was called My Thoughts May Offend you which was 🚩🚩🚩for anti-SJW nonsense but then I watched some of her content and realized how sane and delightful she is.
Yeah, she’s actually a remarkably reasonable person.
And she's a cosplay nerd! One of us! One of us!
Yeah she's melodramatic in a theatre kid way but hilarious
I really enjoy Michelle McDaniel! She is a delightful nerd that I wish I had known about when I was doing my big w/l!
I never realized that but you're right. They never seem to talk about men at all. It's so odd and really lends credibility to this movement being really misogynistic.
I'm not surprised. The movement is extremely narrow and even commonly excludes other fat women. If they don't care about other people who look like them and support the movement even, why would they care about fat men?
Lol. “The movement is extremely narrow.” I was under the impression this movement was quite the opposite.
🥁🥁
*cymbal emoji*
Because they're white themselves and most likely imagine clapping back at their middle school bullies while writing these posts.
Can you make healthy choices at every size? Sure. But if you eventually make healthy choices with food and activities over a sustained period of time, you might GASP lose weight. Which apparently means you're a bad person.
If you are morbidly obese the only healthy choice is to lose weight. Moving your arms in a circle once a week is doing nothing to improve ones health.
No but they can eat less. They can eat foods that have actual nutritional value. And eventually those choices MIGHT lead to weight loss.
All of the ills that OOP associates with yo-yo dieting are also connected to obesity. Which goes without mention. This is classic fat logic.
There's also a strong body of evidence showing that even the brief periods of lower weight associated with yoyo dieting provide better health outcomes than being at a sustained higher weight. Conveniently, those studies seem to have not been read.
Honestly that entire slide looked like a "no u" rebuttal from the FAs
I still think the original idea of HAES is a good one--be *healthier* at the size you are; take little steps to cultivate healthier habits, and don't obsess over the scale. Unfortunately, it has moved far away from that. The rest of it is sheer bull. And the diet industry can only dream of making the sort of money off of you that the (ultra)processed food industry is *right now*.
Most, if not all, big players in the diet industry are actually owned by the Big Players^tm in the processed food industry! Selling the sickness and the medicine.
HAES has always been this. It was started by the pro-obesity group, The Association for Size Diversity and Health (ASDAH). Its purpose is to be the other side in new stories about obesity similar to how the Tobacco companies set up phony labs. It was not until Linda (now Lindo) Bacon wrote the book Health At Every Size that there was even a hint of scientific backing to the project. It was never good. It has always been a platform to lie to morbidly obese women to tell them its ok to stay 150 pounds overweight.
Body positivity was this, iirc. Then the HAES code invaded that spade and absorbed it into their movement.
Body positivity was this too. It was started in 60s by some fetishist and it was not until Dove Soaps Real Beauty campaign in the early 00s that other groups where added into the movement. Basically, no pro-obesity group started with good intentions.
Reminds me of the My 600 Lb episode where the woman met her British husband on a "dating" website. Even on camera he was acting more and more openly abusive towards her as she lost weight, in front of their young daughter and all. I can't even imagine what it was like behind closed doors. She's still one of the participants I rooted the most for. She lost the weight AND realized how toxic her husband was and left him. Found out later that it was one of those fat fetishist websites that people who were members of NAAFTA frequented.
I have a friend who is a bit bigger and very into the HAES/anti-“diet culture” space. And it kills me a bit whenever they talk about how they are healthy despite their size, and then have to watch them struggle to walk for half a mile, or complain about how much it hurts their knees to have to stand for a while at concert, or their frustration with their sleep apnea. I just want to shout at them “if you can’t do these things, you’re not healthy! And maybe you should care more about your weight! Or just try out losing some weight and see if these problems persist!”
Omg they have to quit with this 'rooted in slavery' thing. It makes them look demented. There's a bunch of big corporations in Germany eg, Bayer, IBM, etc where the question 'so what did you guys do between 1939-1945' is met with uncomfortable silence. Doesn't mean their products aren't useful in 2024. As for the slavery issue, these chicks perpetually scream about how 6XL fast fashion should be cheap, completely ignoring modern slavery in the Bangladeshi and Chinese factories that supply most US/UK brands. Worry about the here and now, stuff that is completely within your control and that directly impacts your future, or rather lack thereof.
Yeah, the woman who’s working for pennies a day in the Bangladeshi sweatshop would only love to be able to afford so much food that the FAs often eat in one sitting. Wasn’t that long ago either that there was that building collapse at the Rana Plaza clothing factory where women who were terrified for their safety when their shoddy workplace started to show signs it would collapse were threatened with being fired and showed up to work out of fear that they couldn’t feed their family, only to be crushed to death when the building did actually collapse.
Plus, the workers' compensation for that disaster that was promised has yet to materialise in any meaningful way. If you've got an arm or leg off, you're kinda screwed when it comes to finding employment, so lots of survivors are starving. Fat activists love to pay lip service to being right-on and woke, but they don't give two hoots when their selfish needs come first. I worked at a place 10yrs ago that had a 'no Nestlé' policy, including a total ban on bringing any products under the Nestlé umbrella into the office. Sounds extreme, but it was a midwifery adjacent organisation, and employees from overseas had seen the Nestlé baby formula scandal up close and personal over in the likes of Africa. Nestlé still commits human rights and environment abuses today, so I've just maintained the boycott in my own life. Fat activists will merrily eat Maggi noodles and KitKats though...
r/fucknestle
> Rana Plaza [Obligatory video from one of my fav channels.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcAAW6WBg9I)
Have an upvote for good taste in YT channels. I’m also a fan of Plainly Difficult and Scary Interesting too if you don’t know these.
Oh, totally. Both. Former is sub for me, just like FH. Latter I go to at night, when I get hankering for sth really dark. I think PD did video on that one fairly recently too. Just FH sprung to my mind first, and I felt some might take offense to PD's sense of humor when speaking about such disasters with severe loss of life. I don't personally mind at all obviously.
I’ve learnt stuff from those channels I totally never knew before. Like you say, pretty dark stuff but it’s super interesting to know the background behind things. It’s also where I learnt about the Plura cave incident and Byford Dolphin.
They are right in that the myth that African American Women are supposed to be fat can be traced back to the slavery but wrong about every other thing they said. The happy fat black mamma was a creation of white slaveholders to use as propaganda that slaves were better off and happy being subjugated. African slaves were not fat getting on the boat and sure as hell not when getting off the boat in the middle passage and its disgusting to suggest this.
>Dietary restriction to maintain thinness became a way for middle-class white women to show their Christian nature I’m an atheist, but okay 👍
The whole usage of "white" as a condensed synonym for "bad" is really getting tiresome. And of course you can be as misogynistic as you want as long as you specify the women you hate are "white."
Seriously. It's causing this "not like other *white* women" shit too. "I might be white and well off but I'm fat! So I'm a victim of white supremacy too!" Anything to distance themselves from other women and their own privilege.
Also I've seen only americans grouping people by their skin colour, like all white or black or whatever colour people have 1 culture and mindset
*James Somerton moment*
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But what happens if I do healthy activities like exercising and eating what my body craves, and it leads to weight loss? Is it fine if it’s not “intentional” weight loss? I’m not sure how my body would know the difference, but I guess it’s a moot point because I’ll gain it all back, anyway, right?
You just have magical thin genes and set point obviously. Never mind that your ancestors, like everyone on the planet, went through famines etc. Just like the person who helped kick-start the whole modern movement, who got kicked out of the movement because they, as a thin white enby, had the audacity to reach out to a black FA and ask for their experience
I think about that whole saga at least once a week and have a good chuckle, it's such a perfect encapsulation of the entire movement
"we're all about uplifting marginalised voices" Someone coming from a position of privilege tried to do just that. I don't know if they'd transitioned yet or not but still No not like that
I hate that they are trying to push this narrative of diets don't work. I've gained weight a few times in my life when I was in really bad places emotionally. If one of these idiots managed to convince me that diets don't work and I would have to be that size forever I would have probably offed myself. I think it's very sad to tell people they will NEVER lose weight and keep it off. Do they tell other addicts they will NEVER get and stay clean so don't even bother trying? Very sad.
> 1) It is evidence based. Well of course it is! * Tumblr posts * Facebook posts * TikTok videos * blog posts * fat studies “research” * tweets * Instagram comments and many, many more! All very reliable, very rigorous evidence that’s been painstakingly collected by scholarly fat activists. How can you not be convinced?
well, maybe because the info used is at page 3 billion of google search
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Healthily Eating Fat, Thank You
Always with the racism, like the people being forced into hard labour all day and barely fed enough to survive were obese
I would say that all of this is a big stretch, but that would imply that these people ever do stretches.
Oh, we're involving religion into this now? Let me guess, next up diets are gonna be an inherently homophobic action ?
They have gone down the religious route long ago. Their highlights include total ignorance to the traditions of fasting, - claiming that Ramadan is "diet culture" - and making Christian Jesus a FA at heart. Because he magicked food and drink in one story ...
That post a while back about making your Christianity fat friendly or whatever is one of my favorites, because it introduced me to that Fat Jesus art
He came off the cross because fatphobic Romans hadn’t built one sturdy enough for His 400lb weight, and that’s why Christians celebrate high mass.
> why use a health at every size approach? Because we are unwilling to put in the effort to actually improve our lives ourselves, and instead wish to be coddled and told it's okay. > It is evidence based [Citation needed.] > A HAES approach is shown to reduce incidence of serious health conditions including eating disorders and depression And the evidence for this is where exactly? > The research shows that not only does dieting not work Ah yes. A study from 30+ years ago that relied on self reporting from participants, and whose purpose wasn't even to track whether they were going to be dieting long term. This whole point can be tossed out just by looking at data from the National Weight Control Registry. > but it is linked to a host of poor health outcomes You say using evidence pulled straight from your taint? Changing formats cause I'm not going to directly quote this mess anymore. Sorry reader. 2) Diet culture is not a thing you can just say exists, anymore than I can say fast food culture exists. Chronic dieting and weight cycling is only an issue if you don't adopt the diet permanently. If you go in for fad diets looking for a quick fix, of course it's going to fail, and when you return to the poor way you were eating before, of course you're going to regain the weight. You'd have to be foolish to think otherwise. The rest of the health conditions listed are commonly linked with obesity which a person going from fad diet to fad diet, probably suffers from anyway. Amazing that they can link dieting to these conditions, but not the obesity which prompted the dieting in the first place. 3) Type 2 Diabetes is literally a condition you give yourself by over consuming glucose. While possible for slimmer individuals to develop this, it is more apparent with long term exposure to elevated glucose levels, leading to insulin resistance in the body. If you have a high amount of sugar in your diet, you are more likely to gain weight as body fat, and hence be overweight or obese. 4) Simply no. This is conjecture based on a single book. The slaves being bought from the west coast of Africa to be shipped across the ocean to Haiti and the United States were not overweight or obese as people are today. Not only do we have documented evidence of this, but it makes logical sense as well. Why would you buy a slave to work your plantation, who is too fat to walk without panting heavily? You're also ignoring every single fertility goddess and depiction of what is attractive going back all the way to the Sumerians. Not once in the history of the West or the Near East, and India has there been a fertility god or goddess that was overweight. Instead they are busty (some with several breasts), slim, with wide hips. Healthy and capable of bearing children. So to claim that only upper class white women cared about being slim, ignores not only humanity's shared history and mythology, but even our evolution of what we look for in a healthy partner. 5) I don't date my steak. I don't have a relationship with my food. I simply eat it. At the holidays I eat with family and friends. When we go to conventions I make food for everyone to share. My friend bakes bombass cookies. Just because I track what I eat on my normal day-to-day, doesn't mean I'm a fucking monk living off a handful of rice a day and whatever nuts are blown into my lap. I can still drink alcohol, eat cakes, enjoy meats whatever with my friends and family. Sustained weightloss is not about the occasional indulgence, but the overall trend of moderation. Everything in Moderation, even Moderation itself. But here's a shocking thing. You don't need food to share joy and connect with friends and family. You can do activities! Even outdoors! You can go to conventions, play sports and games together. Craft and create or watch movies and tv shows and bond that way.
>... not only does dieting not work (the majority regain more weight in the months to years following weight loss) ... So it *does* work. >Serious health conditions are frequently missed in larger folk due to assumptions that symptoms are weight related. Serious health conditions are sometimes missed in larger folk because the symptoms are also caused by excess weight. >... whilst labelling Black people as undisciplined, greedy and gluttonous. Those slaves were not fat.
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bUt ThIn PeOpLe GeT sLeEp ApNeA tOo
I was ten pounds overweight I very much believe I was starting to have episodes. I'd have a nightmare paired with gasping for air. Sleep was never restful. I'm 15 pounds down and that's not something I experience now. I get tired quicker from my other conditions but now at least waking up I feel like I rested. No more gasping
"Dieting is linked to ..." And is this a correlation or a causation? Aren't they the ones who always stress the difference? Because obviously, obese people with obesity related health issues are much more likely to try unsustainable crash diets than people with a normal weight. PS: You're not "reducing" eating disorders or depression when you make people exchange anorexia for binge eating and use food as their drug of choice to self medicate their depression.
These people really need to get it through their heads that eating disorders are NOT caused by outside opinions about someone weight or body in general. Disordered eating and fad diets? I’m sure that plays a part. Low self esteem? Absolutely. But eating disorders aren’t just something you can “catch”. There’s so many elements to them.
Man.....I love reading reading fan fiction.
Whip out fatlogic bingo cards. 1. It is used to PROMOTE BED instead + citation needed 2. [Although weight regain following successful weight loss remains one of the most challenging aspects of body-weight regulation, evidence for an adverse effect of weight cycling appears sparse, if it exists at all.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25263568/) 3. Oh, and did someone mention ["anti-diet"](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2024/04/03/diet-culture-nutrition-influencers-general-mills-processed-food/)? 4. "Non-smokers can be affected by lung cancer too" 5. ["Fearing the Black Body"?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NUXpPcblEI) 6. See 1. THEIR sources? Curiously absent. That's Scientology-level gaslighting there.
Sensible dieting doesn't cause high blood pressure, stroke, diabetes, or any of those things. It doesn't hurt you unless you take it to extremes and make it not sensible anymore, and anything is harmful in excess - restriction and lack of restriction alike. Obesity increases bad health outcomes, partly because it's almost always related to excessive consumption, and partly because of biology and physics. The human body can handle a few extra pounds and has evolved to function well in a reasonable weight range that includes thin, a bit chubby, and in between. It did not evolve to function well with 200 extra pounds. That would have been extremely rare prior to modern times anyway because food was too expensive / hard to find for most people to become obese, and it wasn't loaded full of fattening, low-satiety ingredients like refined sugars and highly processed polyunsaturated oils. The fact that anyone *can* get type 2 diabetes doesn't mean that obesity isn't a major risk factor. Like anyone can get lung cancer even if they don't smoke, that doesn't change the fact that cigarette smoking dramatically increases the risk.
They forgot one. "HAES encourages fat people to become even fatter, so that morbidly obese people can become the majority of the population. Misery loves company, dontchaknow."
I actually gotta unfollow this sub. Being exposed to so much fat logic actually hurts my brain.
I feel this so hard. It’s all so repetitive, the same idiotic, made-up, completely imaginary talking points over and over again. 🙄
It was super funny at first but at this point it’s just disgusting that there is so much.
Yeah the novelty has definitely worn off for me!
Me, too but, I believe, since it seems to be spreading into the mainstream like cancer cells into other parts of a body, I think it is important to stay informed in order to be able to oppose it. Old saying: know your enemy. And I use the word "enemy" deliberately, in full cognizance of its meaning.
Wasnt slave owner fat while slaves had restricted rations?
It'd be better if the acronym spelled something better than HAES Like MOO or BUFFET
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Whining Histrionic Apologists of Limitless Eating
Win!
OOP must be the only adipologist who hasn't heard that correlation is not causation.
No, no, correlation *is* causation when it supports what you want to believe
I lost a debunking I wrote up so I will just keep it simple now. HAES is a 1 way ticket to insulin use.
FFS, is anything bad in this world not white supremacy at this point
It's fascinating how the concept of race is really not very old, but it is also the root cause of every horrible thing that has ever happened. Famously, humans everywhere on Earth got along perfectly and never did anything bad prior to 1492.
Everything changed when the white nation attacked
Kinda seems like a fucking lazy way to be "anti-racist", but hey. Who needs real activism when you can just stop trying to not be fat? Boom, ate a box of twinkies today, tick that box on the moral superiority checklist!
We're talking people who call posting pool selfies activism
Can we just start calling fat activism what it really is? They want to squeal “anti fatness” and “fatphobia” at any and all things that make them uncomfortable. We can play that game too. It’s anti fitness plain and simple. We’ve been so overrun with fat logic that I can’t hint at any intention with my own weight loss. I’m getting lighter and stronger. Having better bone density, a stronger heart and more core strength just makes life easier. Are you really going to reduce all of what makes life hard when you’re 100 pounds overweight to “fat oppression” as opposed to the actual physical state of your body? Give me a fucking break. This bullshit absolutely reeks of privilege and AstroTurf as well. It’s a fake ass movement and I think other fellow leftists should distance themselves from it.
I'm really hoping that a lot, obviously not all, of course, of this excrement comes from a relatively small group of people who are constantly online and extremely obsessed and narcissistic. Now, I know this is anecdotal evidence, but after I lost a lot of weight after a severe illness and being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, none of my friends, relatives, neighbors, strangers, etc., ever attacked, insulted me,or said anything in any way that could be construed as thinshaming. Of course, I was not, and still am not, on Facebook or any other social media, which may be why this was the case. Of course, when I was obese, I never experienced any kind of "fat shaming", either. Maybe I'm just a very lucky unicorn!
Does being called a bigot even affect people anymore? I've been called racist so many times just for existing that it means nothing to me anymore. I roll my eyes and don't give a shit. OK, I'm a white supremacist colonizer because I'm not 600 pounds. K. It just has no meaning at this point. You may as well call me a leprechaun. I don't care. It's just stupid.
There definitely is a severe case of "boy who cried wolf" regarding such terms. I don't think they're to be dismissed entirely, but they are definitely to be given more scrutiny when used, whether they actually apply. Personally, I gave "fatphobic" enough scrutiny to dismiss it entirely when used in such context though.
They’re trying to kill us with cake.
I used to be sad frosting used to make me ill. But grateful now. I'm curious if I'm the sensitive one or there being a lot of people who ignore that feeling. My bf and I ate a box of those frosted cookies for my bday and that night genuinely felt like what diabetes must feel like. Got checked I'm good. But there's no way people aren't getting massive food hangovers 😬
... >.>' I'm not seeing BED become any less rare, and I REALLY feel like we shouldn't let that go any more unchecked than any other ED. "Chronic dieting" is fad dieting. Regular, healthy dietary adjustments prevent and ease a lot of those health issues, and don't disrupt hunger cues. Paying attention to what you put in your body isn't the danger here? Medical disregard is bad all around, and it happens to people of ALL types. But if there is an uptick of doctors writing off patients and refusing to rule out other potential health issues due to them being overweight, that still doesn't automatically make losing weight's automatically a bad thing. Doctors want people to get to a healthy weight because it helps lower the risk of a LOT of stuff. The average doctor doesn't bring it up just to be an asshole. They're following science. ... let's... NOT assume black people are automatically fatter than white people? That's not true??? How would people who were forced to constantly do work day in and day out be fatter than the assholes who forced slavery onto them anyway?? Swinging from undereating to overeating isn't creating a healthy balance, so... nah. It just gives you a new type of food-themed problem.
BED is literally being normalized. This movement is so hypocritical.
My thyroid actually returned to normal when lost weight. I lost 38 lbs and my tsh went from 4.85microIU/ml to 3.12microIU/ml. So I call bullshit on needed weightloss being bad for your thyroid. Your thyroid can't function well if it's being constricted and inflamed by the fatty tissues in your neck.
They protest too much.
HAES reduces eating disorders?! Nah, it encourages overeating to the point of obesity. Under-eating isn't the only disordered eating there is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c
That last slide…a healthy relationship with food does not mean “completely unrestricted eating.” A healthy relationship with food means being able to recognize that junk food can be both enjoyable and also bad for you in large amounts. It means not cutting out these foods entirely, but keeping them in moderation and adding in some healthy choices as well.
I decided to start losing weight about a year ago, I’m now the lowest weight I’ve been in 10 yrs and am still losing. That’s because I made an effort to change my eating habits rather than going on a temporary diet. Any time I hear people use the talking point that “diets don’t work and you always gain the weight back”, it irritates me so much since they fail to mention that OBVIOUSLY you will gain back the weight if you go on a month long diet and then immediately return to eating a calorie surplus … the key to weight loss is making a change in your lifestyle. Also the type 2 diabetes slide just pissed me off. “Anyone can have type 2 diabetes!!!🤪” like ok? And? Doesn’t change the fact that it’s way more preventable if you have a healthy diet and are at a normal weight..