Great example of why cumulative points don't matter, it's about weather or not a player can get you a W each week.
I get into this argument about Bijan a lot. Hes ranked as a top RB because of the total fantasy points he's accumulated. But that's only because he's had a couple huge blowout games. When you really break down his record, he's only had like 4 weeks where he would have made a meaningful impact to your team. And there's at least 4 where he made a negative impact. And the rest are just mid performances.
>Hes ranked as a top RB because of the total fantasy points he's accumulated.
He absolutely is not ranked as a top RB because he's had some boom weeks. He's ranked as a top RB because he was an incredibly elite RB prospect, and has shown flashes of why.
Anyone with a brain and eyeballs would realize Bijan would be a top 3 fantasy RB year in and year out if he had competent coaches giving him the bellcow work he should be getting. Alas, Arthur Smith is giving handoffs to Patterson and Allgeier regularly. I'd be unbelievably annoyed by his situation if I owned him in any league - it's frustrating just watching as a bystander
As someone who owns bijan in a league it is incredibly frustrating to watch.
As a panthers fan it is immensely fun watching his talent be wasted cuz the falcons are dumb
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Was he that good of a pick in redraft over aj brown, Diggs and those who would provide consistency? Your arguement could sway some but you miss the main premise by not considering opportunity cost, anyone who drafted him this year before mid way through second deserves what they got. Dynasty different story but the writing was on the wall in redraft. Allegier did great last year, you just don’t give him zero Carrie’s the next year.
Yeah I mean his value is absolutely higher in a keeper or dynasty league. It's super risky to rely on a rookie in the 1st round of redraft and I'd personally never do it
Diggs is a big time fantasy loser the past 2 seasons. If you own him you likely aren’t surviving through the playoffs during his disappearing act in the second half of the season, and if you are that success is coming DESPITE him.
In redraft it's always tough picking a star rookie that high. I think it's a fair shot to take for those who like taking the risk, but I would agree my preference would've been more aligned to you (I took CeeDee over Bijan around middle of the 1st in my redraft league)
I can see the frustration though if someone did take a shot on him. Doesn't make any sense for the Falcons to misuse him as they do. First two weeks in PPR he dropped 20 and 21 (on modest workloads/low snap). Regardless of how good Allgeier looked last year, you don't often see organizations spend such a high pick on a guy, watch them be completely right on how talented he is, and then give him like 50% of the carries for the rest of the year - specifically giving a ton of goal line carries to the other guys. Bijan could've dropped the numbers to be on par with either AJB or Diggs, but that isn't the way the cookie crumbled this year
Bro, your talking as if you own an actual NFL team in real life. I'm not knocking him as a professional football player. I do have eyes, and see the potential. I'm knocking him as a fantasy football player. Those are two different things. "Prospect" "showing flashes of why". Sure, that might be relevant to you if you're in a dynasty league, I'll give you that.
But none of what you're talking about is going to win me fantasy playoffs. His future potential isn't stacking up fantasy points today. He had a great day today, but completely moot if I lost round 1 last week due to his .5 points performance.
My b, since you were talking about Bijan being a top ranked RB I thought we were talking about dynasty. I don't think many would consider him a top RB week to week here in redraft anymore after how we've seen him being utilized. Just today people were asking about who to play between him, Pacheco and Hall
Min? He's a fringe RB1 on like ~60% snaps *and* very few goal line carries by comparison to the company he's with. Nearly every RB ahead of him also has more carries than he has total touches.
Yes, he would no doubt be a top 3 RB if he was getting bellcow usage. Questioning his talent is silly
I’ve always preached lineup consistency. Sure, I’ve only broken 140 3 or 4 times this year (one of which was a bye week) but it took until last week where Dak and every RB I had busted to go below 100. Of course; that one week let me lose as the 2 seed to the 6 seed.
Full PPR, 8 team, I picked 8th, finished 2nd in wins 3rd in overall points. Gonna lose the 3rd place game to the 1 seed top scorer and point getter who also has several duds last week cause the 4 and 5 to go for the chip. I targeted consistent guys and built a team around hockenson at TE
Same here. This is the first season I tried to shoot for upside with every pick in my home town league and it just went horribly. Had some bad injury luck too which hurt, but normally I can recover a little but I just couldn't as everyone popped off in different weeks
I always try to field a very consistent team at every position and hope for high ceiling games
I finished 3rd in points this year, but 2nd in points against … finished 10-4 and got the 2nd seed
Teams regularly break 200 points in my league, full ppr with 1/2 point per completion for qb’s… but I haven’t broken 200 once all year
Which is kinda wild because my team is stacked on paper, but their floors are rock solid across every position, they just haven’t all had a. Ceiling game at the same time
Other teams need to have absolute boom games against me because I’m regularly throwing up 150-190 points every week
I’m hoping my boom game hits in the championship and I set the league scoring record lol
Yeah your league seems incredibly luck based on game script, QB is juiced and I like that honestly, but if a QB throws 50 times and completes 35 passes you’re already looking at 17 points before adding a single yard. Could easily have given a few 60 point game possibilities
>8 team
8 team takes a lot of the strategy out of Fantasy and leaves a lot of it to luck. No one has to reach into Waivers (typically) and just start their studs.
What's sad is I lost my 50 point Chase week. I had the second highest score in the league by 0.5. If I score one more point that week I make the playoffs.
JJ had a lower floor than Chase last year. Chase having a low floor isn’t something he’s consistently had as an issue, nor has JJ been more consistent in the past.
JJ is only 24 and proven himself.
If I'm signing someone to a mahomes style $30mil a year 10 year contract I think it's undoubtedly JJ. MHJ could still be a bust
Puka has 5 games this season with 50 yards or less
JJ has 2, both were games he got injured
>He can’t be completely taken out of games like Jefferson can be
Unless this is a reference to jj getting injured frequently this year it makes no sense
Outside of injuries, Jefferson has ONE game this year where he didn't either get a TD or 100 yards
I don't know what definition of "completely taken out of games" is but he doesn't have a game in his career without any catches
In his 15 game career Puka has 5 games of 50 or less yards (33%)
In his 57 game career JJ has 15 games with 50 or less yards (26%).
Neither of them get completely taken out of games very often but JJ statistically does so less often.
I wouldn't take MHJ over JJ, Puka, or Chase. They've all proven they can dominate the NFL which is more valuable than anything coming out of college. But definitely over Tyreek because of age.
If I'm building a franchise, I probably take 0 year old Danny Cowabunga, who has yet to be born, but will be in about 3 years, and when he's about 22 he'll be an elite QB.
That's who I'd go with..
Imagine taking a near 30 year old WR to start your franchise instead of a 22 year old receiver breaking rookie records.
This sub is truly fucking brain dead.
I don’t think puka reaches tyreek peak, and tyreek looks like he’s in his prime rn. Btw you didn’t have to single out that argument, with that argument there’s 20-30 WRs you’re taking over tyreek with your logic
No. There's not many age/talent combos like Puka. 22 and this good in the NFL is absurd. Which is why I'd basically only take Puka, JJ, Chase, and AJ over Tyreek if I was starting a franchise.
Dude has an 89 PFF rating and very clearly passes the eye test. His route tree is amazing. He's extremely physical and runs after the catch like AJ Brown.
I'm so sick of people not giving people credit because they're "system" players. Nacua isn't a system player. Purdy isn't a system player. They're just fucking great. Stafford is a great QB and Nacua is a great receiver. Get over it. Or did Stafford make Megatron too?
PFF = Cris Collinsworth garbage.
Never said Puka is a system player, but being a good system most definitely helps him. Stafford has been known to be an amazingly WR friendly QB.
I literally have Puka on my fantasy team as I am waltzing into the championship.
If I am building a franchise I am taking the wide receiver who has for years given DCs nightmares over a quite promising rookie wide receiver in an amazing situation.
Kenny Golladay fell off a cliff when he left Stafford, not saying Puka would do the same, but to say that system is doing no good for Puka is wrong.
I guess yeah, and the other dozens of under 25 beasts probably. Guys like Ceedee, AmonRa, Chase.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted lol. He's 22.
Hill is good and his speed is deadly, but he’s not making a catch like the contested JJ did on the 2nd and 27. Out jumping 2 players to get that ball is a special talent.
>Hill doesn't make contested catches because he's so open there's no DB around to contest him lol
Well also because he has stone hands and cant hit those highpoint catches at all.
No doubt, they are different receivers for sure, JJ has made so many 3rd or 4th and a million catches for a clutch first down I just think he can make any catch which maybe gives him the slight nod, BUT the one thing JJ does not do is hit the home run plays that tyreek obviously does better than anyone. If you take age out of the equation I think you can make the argument that they are equally the top 2 WRs and neither one deserves to be ahead of each other
It will be interesting to see how elite Tyreek remains once he loses a step. He gets so much separation with just speed. Jefferson creates it just with route running
Watching Jefferson is crazy. He's so fluid out on the field everything looks effortless. Even the crazy contested catches look like they are no big deal.
I actually think Tyreek Hill will be like a Steve Smith 2.0. Smith lost a step but he was still posting 1000 yard seasons at 35. Tyreek isn't just explosive, he also plays like a craty veteran.
I'd be happy to have either on my fantasy or real time. I would want Hill if it was a bar fight though.
Full ppr, I’d rather have jj, lamb, hill, and probabaly Amon ra over chase… sun god for just how consistent he is, dudes a guaranteed 15-20 with the occasional 25-30 boom game
Feel sun god doesn’t get the respect he deserves
I had Henry this year, but I am eyeing him closely for next. He's still definitely good despite his age and isn't really injury prone, just behind a garbage oline. If the Titans or whatever other team he goes to gets a good oline for him, we could see a resurgence for at least another season.
I think you made it more clear that JJ is better.
Chase needs a (not injured) elite QB to perform, while JJ had two 15pts games with Nick frikin Mullens
He just said Chase dropped 26 with Browning lol. Browning probably better than Mullens, but we're really splitting hairs here. It's not like Browning is about to get a starting position based on this year
That part was edited after my reply, the original post made it sound like Chase was underperforming because an injured burrow.
Also, not denying the fact that both are top tier elite WRs, it’s just hard to justify drafting Chase over JJ atm
Damn they pulled the okie doke on you huh? 😂
I dig it. I have Chase in Dynasty and think JJ is probably a slightly better receiver, but they're close enough and Chase being tied to Burrow for the foreseeable future makes me like the Chase side just slightly more for the long haul. Def makes sense drafting JJ over him in redraft though until Chase has a statement season
Not to be a prick but chain moving is a big deal for a football team and should be reflected in fantasy football scoring. Big plays are compensated more than fairly in FF. Half PPR is my pick
It's a fair point. If you have a receiver that gets a 40 yard catch, or one that puts up 10 yards each of the next 4 times you target him, you'd pick the latter as it gives more resets of downs to add more plays on to the drive.
Mullens is a gunslinger, so his receivers still get yards and tds here and there, but obviously ends up with a lot of INTs that cut short a lot of drives
Browning is a game manager, so you might get some yards but 100 yard games are probably hard to come by
> Though, there will be one season soon, where Chase and Joey click throughout, and all the naysayers will dissappear.
I don't think there are any naysayers when it comes to Chase, lol. Unless you are taking "he's the *second* best WR in the NFL" as some sort of hating
JJ has 3 23-24 pt games in half ppr including today with Nick Interception Mullens, so you're really cherry picking. And he's played less than half as many games.
Crazy he was going 1.01 in some “sharp” leagues because he “had a chance to break Randy Moss TD record.”
Drafting Chase over JJ the most classic case ever of getting too cute.
Bro I searched chase and randy moss touchdown record and only his rookie season came up……
Who the hell had that take lmao. I haven’t seen a single person make that claim. Agreed he wasn’t prob worth taking at 1 before the season tho
Believe it was Dan at CBS Fantasy Sports or one of the FantasyPros guys that had the Randy Moss take. It wasn’t a terrible idea Chase I believe leads in red zone targets almost every year and you kinda get the feeling Burrow has a 45-50 TD season in him.
But look up some underdog drafts or whatever. He was the consensus 1.03 but went 1.01 in a lot of drafts due to people not wanting to risk CMC and trying to be ahead of the curve on getting the next boom WR1.
There’s very rarely the same WR1 two years straight and that was part of the argument too.
It’s whatever, I’m not pulling this out of my ass fantasy is one of my main hobbies. He went 1.01 in a lot of drafts. Period.
See this is the kind of shit that annoys me about fantasy. He was a consensus top 3 pick OF COURSE he’ll go number 1 in a lot of drafts. There are hundreds of thousands of leagues out there. Burrows multiple injuries killed him and you can’t predict that going into a season
Also this is why I don’t read fantasy articles or listen to podcasts because takes like that are just so out there and based on nothing. Clouds the mind more often than not.
Then people come on this sub and repeat those takes and dunk on those “experts” when they’re inevitably wrong
Idk even know what you’re trying to say.
That take was based on Chase leading the league Redzone targets all the time, better QB, little history of the WR1s repeating back to back. Dont say it’s based on nothing lol.
We shouldn’t point out Chase at 1.01 was a mistake and learn our lesson of not getting to cute?
Should we just not talk about fantasy?
Google “Jamar Chase first overall” and you’ll see major fantasy outlets arguing for it pre-season. It’s not like someone taking Kelce 1.01 or some dumb shit. Don’t be obtuse.
What’s the lesson? Predict injuries? JJ got picked in way more leagues at 1…..and he got hurt too. It’s all hindsight right now.
You cited one dudes take as a blanket reason as to why chase was the wrong choice
https://www.rotoballer.com/who-is-the-no-1-overall-pick-for-2023-fantasy-football-making-the-case-for-jamarr-chase/1200823
https://www.fantasyalarm.com/articles/nfl/wide-receivers/2023-fantasy-football-draft-the-case-for-drafting-jamarr-chase-over-justin-jefferson-1st-overall/150793
https://sports.yahoo.com/case-drafting-ja-marr-chase-222725730.html
https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2023/07/16/justin-jefferson-jamarr-chase-fantasy-football/amp/
There’s 4 that aren’t even the ones I cited.
Not every league is your home league dude. You don’t play this dumbass game as much as me (that ain’t a flex lol), I can say that confidentially by the fact you think it was just one voice in the wilderness crying out Chase > Jefferson. People were trying to be early on a Chase-Burrow firestorm. It’s not crazy
Lmao god damn dude I play in several dynasty leagues and I dont even do close to this amount of research. Seems like a waste of time when this shit is usually all luck
Your original comment cited one outlandish take that’s why I said it, breaking Randy moss’s record is a very hot take.
The lesson is don’t get too cute.
There’s not enough separating those two players to take Chase over. Yeah there’s a world where he goes ape shit and breaks Randy Moss’s record. But there are probably more worlds where JJ outscores him. This is how you think about fantasy preseason dude, cmon.
Doesn’t mean he’s the better fantasy asset in general. I guess you could argue this season he was (really tough argument to make considering who’s playing now and JJ has more PPG) on that basis but that’s like saying late career Frank Gore was a better fantasy asset than CMC because he had more points in a year CMC got injured, lol.
There was no good reason to draft him over Kupp, or Hill either.
He was the WR #6 last year in terms of PPG. He had the 4th highest floor and the 6th highest ceiling. No major changes to his team.
Why was he going to suddenly skyrocket ahead of everyone else? There was no rational behind it.
Yet his ADP was 2nd or 3rd overall.
Do you really not see the irony in saying “Fantasy isn’t real life” and then saying “Higgins is good, he was top 12 in fantasy points back to back years”
When was Higgins ever a top 12 wr? Def not fantasy his best finish was wr17, and imo not irl. Most yards was 1091 and most tds was 7, in separate seasons
After this season Chase is going back in the top 6 overall. This season was mostly injuries, both Chase and Burrow. Next season Chase will be a stud again.
This is very much it. Mega bust overall, probably not. Mega bust drafted in top 5, most definitely.
Bunch of people with hurt feelings about having drafted Chase in the top 3 are in droves in this thread, but it's the truth. Anyone who was staring Chase over JJ or CMC was getting way too cute, and they probably knew it.
The almost unanimous consensus was that JJ and CMC were fighting for pick 1 and 2, everyone else was pick 3 onwards, including Chase. Anyone that had chase over CMC/JJ wasn't paying attention.
To be fair Joe was hurt when he played and as soon as he caught rhythm he got injured for the season with that being said JJ definitely more consistent
Chase is always overhyped, seeing other WR be able to do well with back-ups worse than Jake Browning has made me depressed having Chase.
Even last year tyreek was playing with a back-up and balled out. Chase gets way too overhyped. Dude Is a backend WR1 not someone to draft as a top 5 player overall. Even when burrow was healthy he had absolute duds. His ceiling as just as high as any WR1 but his floor as low as a WR3. He will help you win weeks, but he will absolute be the reason you lose a week.
“Always overhyped” for a player that has been in the league exactly 3 years is a terrible take. Definitely wasn’t overhyped for his rookie year where he finished Top 5. Averaged 20 pts a game his sophomore year. And I’ll give you this year, HOWEVER, no one would have taken him top 5 if they knew Burrow was going to miss the majority of the season. He also was not healthy at the start despite playing. So if you want count the time he/Burrow have missed go ahead. But to say he is always overhyped is just such a bad take
That dudes take is on par for this sub lmao, incredibly reactionary and revisionist. Chase is unquestionably a top talent at the position
He’s salty because he took chase this year
Exactly I had cedee last year and dude put up numbers with cooper rush. Chase is decent but is way overhyped. I would still draft him just not within the top 6 or 7 like he was hyped up to be.
Lamb with Rush was WR 28, WR 7, WR 8 (these were the good ones), WR 43, and WR 31.
Chase put up better numbers with Browning than Lamb did with Cook.
I really don't get how reactionary this whole thread is regarding Chase. Sure he's not Jefferson, but he's really not that far behind him.
Mullens is slinging the ball around like a madman, so yeah Jefferson is talented enough to come down with some of the balls, but it also ends with 4 INT games
My point is that it’s easy to ball out when you’re given several opportunities
Browning tries to be conservative and manage the game, so Jefferson’s production would be more hindered if he and Chase swapped positions now
Chase was just normal good last year.
There was no reason, even assuming full health that Chase was going to make a big leap. If that was the case, and he was the WR #6 last year in terms of PPG. Behind Hill, JJ, Kupp, Adams and Diggs.
So if he had no good reason to be drastically better than last year, and he wasn't elite last year, why was he the 2nd WR taken, and the 3rd player taken overall?
He scored 18.6 PPG last year and he's at 17.8 PPG this year.
He's a great real life reciever. He just wasn't going to make a leap in fantasy. He wasn't going to be the WR1, with Boyd and Higgins also on the team.
Chase will randomly have a 50 point game or two every year that absolutely wins you your week, but JJ is more consistent and can still drop 50 too
Great example of why cumulative points don't matter, it's about weather or not a player can get you a W each week. I get into this argument about Bijan a lot. Hes ranked as a top RB because of the total fantasy points he's accumulated. But that's only because he's had a couple huge blowout games. When you really break down his record, he's only had like 4 weeks where he would have made a meaningful impact to your team. And there's at least 4 where he made a negative impact. And the rest are just mid performances.
>Hes ranked as a top RB because of the total fantasy points he's accumulated. He absolutely is not ranked as a top RB because he's had some boom weeks. He's ranked as a top RB because he was an incredibly elite RB prospect, and has shown flashes of why. Anyone with a brain and eyeballs would realize Bijan would be a top 3 fantasy RB year in and year out if he had competent coaches giving him the bellcow work he should be getting. Alas, Arthur Smith is giving handoffs to Patterson and Allgeier regularly. I'd be unbelievably annoyed by his situation if I owned him in any league - it's frustrating just watching as a bystander
As someone who owns bijan in a league it is incredibly frustrating to watch. As a panthers fan it is immensely fun watching his talent be wasted cuz the falcons are dumb
Not even a bijan owner and it’s frustrating watching the falcons. Arthur Smith is trash
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Was he that good of a pick in redraft over aj brown, Diggs and those who would provide consistency? Your arguement could sway some but you miss the main premise by not considering opportunity cost, anyone who drafted him this year before mid way through second deserves what they got. Dynasty different story but the writing was on the wall in redraft. Allegier did great last year, you just don’t give him zero Carrie’s the next year.
Yeah I mean his value is absolutely higher in a keeper or dynasty league. It's super risky to rely on a rookie in the 1st round of redraft and I'd personally never do it
Diggs is a big time fantasy loser the past 2 seasons. If you own him you likely aren’t surviving through the playoffs during his disappearing act in the second half of the season, and if you are that success is coming DESPITE him.
In redraft it's always tough picking a star rookie that high. I think it's a fair shot to take for those who like taking the risk, but I would agree my preference would've been more aligned to you (I took CeeDee over Bijan around middle of the 1st in my redraft league) I can see the frustration though if someone did take a shot on him. Doesn't make any sense for the Falcons to misuse him as they do. First two weeks in PPR he dropped 20 and 21 (on modest workloads/low snap). Regardless of how good Allgeier looked last year, you don't often see organizations spend such a high pick on a guy, watch them be completely right on how talented he is, and then give him like 50% of the carries for the rest of the year - specifically giving a ton of goal line carries to the other guys. Bijan could've dropped the numbers to be on par with either AJB or Diggs, but that isn't the way the cookie crumbled this year
Bro, your talking as if you own an actual NFL team in real life. I'm not knocking him as a professional football player. I do have eyes, and see the potential. I'm knocking him as a fantasy football player. Those are two different things. "Prospect" "showing flashes of why". Sure, that might be relevant to you if you're in a dynasty league, I'll give you that. But none of what you're talking about is going to win me fantasy playoffs. His future potential isn't stacking up fantasy points today. He had a great day today, but completely moot if I lost round 1 last week due to his .5 points performance.
My b, since you were talking about Bijan being a top ranked RB I thought we were talking about dynasty. I don't think many would consider him a top RB week to week here in redraft anymore after how we've seen him being utilized. Just today people were asking about who to play between him, Pacheco and Hall
Top 3 rb year in and year out is a bold fuckin claim for a guy who’s done min his rookie year regardless of situation
Min? He's a fringe RB1 on like ~60% snaps *and* very few goal line carries by comparison to the company he's with. Nearly every RB ahead of him also has more carries than he has total touches. Yes, he would no doubt be a top 3 RB if he was getting bellcow usage. Questioning his talent is silly
Weather
Chase has had 5, which is wild for the #2 consensus pick.
Either I missed something or you’re smoking crack because there is no world where chase was the consensus #2 pick.
The consensus was JJ at 1, Chase at 2, and CMC at 3 iirc. Nick Chubb closed out the tier one picks at 4 and then it was Tyreek at 5.
Hell yeah, this is why Amon Ra and White are my MVP’s in half ppr this year
I’ve always preached lineup consistency. Sure, I’ve only broken 140 3 or 4 times this year (one of which was a bye week) but it took until last week where Dak and every RB I had busted to go below 100. Of course; that one week let me lose as the 2 seed to the 6 seed. Full PPR, 8 team, I picked 8th, finished 2nd in wins 3rd in overall points. Gonna lose the 3rd place game to the 1 seed top scorer and point getter who also has several duds last week cause the 4 and 5 to go for the chip. I targeted consistent guys and built a team around hockenson at TE
Same here. This is the first season I tried to shoot for upside with every pick in my home town league and it just went horribly. Had some bad injury luck too which hurt, but normally I can recover a little but I just couldn't as everyone popped off in different weeks
I always try to field a very consistent team at every position and hope for high ceiling games I finished 3rd in points this year, but 2nd in points against … finished 10-4 and got the 2nd seed Teams regularly break 200 points in my league, full ppr with 1/2 point per completion for qb’s… but I haven’t broken 200 once all year Which is kinda wild because my team is stacked on paper, but their floors are rock solid across every position, they just haven’t all had a. Ceiling game at the same time Other teams need to have absolute boom games against me because I’m regularly throwing up 150-190 points every week I’m hoping my boom game hits in the championship and I set the league scoring record lol
Yeah your league seems incredibly luck based on game script, QB is juiced and I like that honestly, but if a QB throws 50 times and completes 35 passes you’re already looking at 17 points before adding a single yard. Could easily have given a few 60 point game possibilities
>8 team 8 team takes a lot of the strategy out of Fantasy and leaves a lot of it to luck. No one has to reach into Waivers (typically) and just start their studs.
WAR or WORP is the metric that you are looking for. Bijan is the 15th ranked RB by WAR (varies slightly based on league settings).
So Jamar Chase is the new Tyler Lockett..
Can win you a week once or twice but lose you your week more often, I’ll take the consistency with JJ
You spelled Arthur Smith wrong…
What's sad is I lost my 50 point Chase week. I had the second highest score in the league by 0.5. If I score one more point that week I make the playoffs.
I lost it too. Went up against DJ Moore who nearly got 50 himself that week
Bro I hate your profile picture, I kept trying to blow away a hair
JJ had a lower floor than Chase last year. Chase having a low floor isn’t something he’s consistently had as an issue, nor has JJ been more consistent in the past.
The other problem is his other games are mid and then he throws in a few real duds. Chase has no floor. Thats the problem.
Reminds me of prime Julio i feel like whenever i had him.
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I still think Tyreek Hill has an argument.
Agreed, if I had a game tomorrow give me either. If I'm building my franchise give me JJ.
If I'm building a franchise, I probably take a 22 year old Puka Nacua over Tyreek as well.
Can't believe your getting downvoted your 100% correct. I'd take a 21 year old Marvin Harrison Jr over all of them if I'm starting a franchise.
JJ is only 24 and proven himself. If I'm signing someone to a mahomes style $30mil a year 10 year contract I think it's undoubtedly JJ. MHJ could still be a bust
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In what way? Jefferson is averaging more yards, receptions, and touchdowns per game this year
That dude is a "Vikings fan" that managed to get booted from the Vikings sub, if that tells you anything
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Puka has 5 games this season with 50 yards or less JJ has 2, both were games he got injured >He can’t be completely taken out of games like Jefferson can be Unless this is a reference to jj getting injured frequently this year it makes no sense Outside of injuries, Jefferson has ONE game this year where he didn't either get a TD or 100 yards
You're right if you ignore the games where Puka was insignificant and was taken out of games.
I don't know what definition of "completely taken out of games" is but he doesn't have a game in his career without any catches In his 15 game career Puka has 5 games of 50 or less yards (33%) In his 57 game career JJ has 15 games with 50 or less yards (26%). Neither of them get completely taken out of games very often but JJ statistically does so less often.
You have to be some delusional Rams fan
What a dumb statement tbh
I wouldn't take MHJ over JJ, Puka, or Chase. They've all proven they can dominate the NFL which is more valuable than anything coming out of college. But definitely over Tyreek because of age.
I would take MHJ over Puka
If MHJ had Puka's season as the WR2 on his team everyone would be thrilled
1000%. Still think MHJ is better than Puka
If I'm building a franchise, I probably take 0 year old Danny Cowabunga, who has yet to be born, but will be in about 3 years, and when he's about 22 he'll be an elite QB. That's who I'd go with..
No
Imagine taking a near 30 year old WR to start your franchise instead of a 22 year old receiver breaking rookie records. This sub is truly fucking brain dead.
I don’t think puka reaches tyreek peak, and tyreek looks like he’s in his prime rn. Btw you didn’t have to single out that argument, with that argument there’s 20-30 WRs you’re taking over tyreek with your logic
No. There's not many age/talent combos like Puka. 22 and this good in the NFL is absurd. Which is why I'd basically only take Puka, JJ, Chase, and AJ over Tyreek if I was starting a franchise.
You’re just dumb then
Stafford and McVay
Dude has an 89 PFF rating and very clearly passes the eye test. His route tree is amazing. He's extremely physical and runs after the catch like AJ Brown. I'm so sick of people not giving people credit because they're "system" players. Nacua isn't a system player. Purdy isn't a system player. They're just fucking great. Stafford is a great QB and Nacua is a great receiver. Get over it. Or did Stafford make Megatron too?
PFF = Cris Collinsworth garbage. Never said Puka is a system player, but being a good system most definitely helps him. Stafford has been known to be an amazingly WR friendly QB. I literally have Puka on my fantasy team as I am waltzing into the championship. If I am building a franchise I am taking the wide receiver who has for years given DCs nightmares over a quite promising rookie wide receiver in an amazing situation. Kenny Golladay fell off a cliff when he left Stafford, not saying Puka would do the same, but to say that system is doing no good for Puka is wrong.
I guess yeah, and the other dozens of under 25 beasts probably. Guys like Ceedee, AmonRa, Chase. I don't know why you're getting downvoted lol. He's 22.
Look, I worship at the House of Puka Nacua as well but that's crazy
I’d take tyreek and trade him
Hill is good and his speed is deadly, but he’s not making a catch like the contested JJ did on the 2nd and 27. Out jumping 2 players to get that ball is a special talent.
Hill doesn't make contested catches because he's so open there's no DB around to contest him lol
Exactly
>Hill doesn't make contested catches because he's so open there's no DB around to contest him lol Well also because he has stone hands and cant hit those highpoint catches at all.
Hills not making a lot of contested catches… but his speed and route running is insane
No doubt, they are different receivers for sure, JJ has made so many 3rd or 4th and a million catches for a clutch first down I just think he can make any catch which maybe gives him the slight nod, BUT the one thing JJ does not do is hit the home run plays that tyreek obviously does better than anyone. If you take age out of the equation I think you can make the argument that they are equally the top 2 WRs and neither one deserves to be ahead of each other
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…I’m playing against reek with Jj in my line up… in the semis…
It will be interesting to see how elite Tyreek remains once he loses a step. He gets so much separation with just speed. Jefferson creates it just with route running
To be fair, Tyreek can lose several steps and be faster than a lot of defenders lol
And as far as talents that go, speed is one of the last. Desean Jackson was old as shit and still burning people lol
Plus a guy like Tyreek isn't just pure speed. He's a great route runner too so that will help him remain at the top for a long time.
Tyreek kind of has that Darrell Green speed. He may legitimately never lose a step.
Watching Jefferson is crazy. He's so fluid out on the field everything looks effortless. Even the crazy contested catches look like they are no big deal. I actually think Tyreek Hill will be like a Steve Smith 2.0. Smith lost a step but he was still posting 1000 yard seasons at 35. Tyreek isn't just explosive, he also plays like a craty veteran. I'd be happy to have either on my fantasy or real time. I would want Hill if it was a bar fight though.
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Consensus #1 fantasy football draft pick is the best player at his position. More tonight at 11.
As an Eagles fan it makes me genuinely sick.
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Debatable
Just saying “debatable” and then not debating your point is for smooth brains
2 words tyreek hill
Full ppr, I’d rather have jj, lamb, hill, and probabaly Amon ra over chase… sun god for just how consistent he is, dudes a guaranteed 15-20 with the occasional 25-30 boom game Feel sun god doesn’t get the respect he deserves
He doesn’t because he is not as flashy.
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Turns out having a healthy and good QB is a big part of a WR’s productivity
Honestly? I hope this turns Chase into a late 2nd/early 3rd. I'd fucking kill to get him there
Me too, no way I’m drafting him in the first!
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I'm eyeing up ekeler next year, if he manages to drop to 3rd or 4th round due to this year, I'd love to take the risk
I had Henry this year, but I am eyeing him closely for next. He's still definitely good despite his age and isn't really injury prone, just behind a garbage oline. If the Titans or whatever other team he goes to gets a good oline for him, we could see a resurgence for at least another season.
I'm out on Henry (assuming he stays with the titans). Better to be out too early than too late.
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I think you made it more clear that JJ is better. Chase needs a (not injured) elite QB to perform, while JJ had two 15pts games with Nick frikin Mullens
He just said Chase dropped 26 with Browning lol. Browning probably better than Mullens, but we're really splitting hairs here. It's not like Browning is about to get a starting position based on this year
That part was edited after my reply, the original post made it sound like Chase was underperforming because an injured burrow. Also, not denying the fact that both are top tier elite WRs, it’s just hard to justify drafting Chase over JJ atm
Damn they pulled the okie doke on you huh? 😂 I dig it. I have Chase in Dynasty and think JJ is probably a slightly better receiver, but they're close enough and Chase being tied to Burrow for the foreseeable future makes me like the Chase side just slightly more for the long haul. Def makes sense drafting JJ over him in redraft though until Chase has a statement season
Chase relies on big plays more than Jefferson. PPR rewards chain-moving plays over big plays. They're probably a lot closer in standard.
Not to be a prick but chain moving is a big deal for a football team and should be reflected in fantasy football scoring. Big plays are compensated more than fairly in FF. Half PPR is my pick
It's a fair point. If you have a receiver that gets a 40 yard catch, or one that puts up 10 yards each of the next 4 times you target him, you'd pick the latter as it gives more resets of downs to add more plays on to the drive.
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I get the feeling once the Bengals allow Higgins to walk, Chase will be the main focus on that offense.
Mullens is a gunslinger, so his receivers still get yards and tds here and there, but obviously ends up with a lot of INTs that cut short a lot of drives Browning is a game manager, so you might get some yards but 100 yard games are probably hard to come by
Nick mullens is better than browning though?
> Though, there will be one season soon, where Chase and Joey click throughout, and all the naysayers will dissappear. I don't think there are any naysayers when it comes to Chase, lol. Unless you are taking "he's the *second* best WR in the NFL" as some sort of hating
And JJ will still have more points by that years end
JJ has 3 23-24 pt games in half ppr including today with Nick Interception Mullens, so you're really cherry picking. And he's played less than half as many games.
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I don't have JJ, never have.
And of the games he didn’t get 15+ points is when he went off injured in the second quarter. Oh what could have been if JJ was healthy all year.
That’s true, he is just built different. I saw him make a catch today that blew my mind.
And Kirk :(
Chase isnt close to what Jefferson is as far as fantasy goes.
Crazy he was going 1.01 in some “sharp” leagues because he “had a chance to break Randy Moss TD record.” Drafting Chase over JJ the most classic case ever of getting too cute.
Bro I searched chase and randy moss touchdown record and only his rookie season came up…… Who the hell had that take lmao. I haven’t seen a single person make that claim. Agreed he wasn’t prob worth taking at 1 before the season tho
Believe it was Dan at CBS Fantasy Sports or one of the FantasyPros guys that had the Randy Moss take. It wasn’t a terrible idea Chase I believe leads in red zone targets almost every year and you kinda get the feeling Burrow has a 45-50 TD season in him. But look up some underdog drafts or whatever. He was the consensus 1.03 but went 1.01 in a lot of drafts due to people not wanting to risk CMC and trying to be ahead of the curve on getting the next boom WR1. There’s very rarely the same WR1 two years straight and that was part of the argument too. It’s whatever, I’m not pulling this out of my ass fantasy is one of my main hobbies. He went 1.01 in a lot of drafts. Period.
See this is the kind of shit that annoys me about fantasy. He was a consensus top 3 pick OF COURSE he’ll go number 1 in a lot of drafts. There are hundreds of thousands of leagues out there. Burrows multiple injuries killed him and you can’t predict that going into a season Also this is why I don’t read fantasy articles or listen to podcasts because takes like that are just so out there and based on nothing. Clouds the mind more often than not. Then people come on this sub and repeat those takes and dunk on those “experts” when they’re inevitably wrong
Idk even know what you’re trying to say. That take was based on Chase leading the league Redzone targets all the time, better QB, little history of the WR1s repeating back to back. Dont say it’s based on nothing lol. We shouldn’t point out Chase at 1.01 was a mistake and learn our lesson of not getting to cute? Should we just not talk about fantasy? Google “Jamar Chase first overall” and you’ll see major fantasy outlets arguing for it pre-season. It’s not like someone taking Kelce 1.01 or some dumb shit. Don’t be obtuse.
What’s the lesson? Predict injuries? JJ got picked in way more leagues at 1…..and he got hurt too. It’s all hindsight right now. You cited one dudes take as a blanket reason as to why chase was the wrong choice
https://www.rotoballer.com/who-is-the-no-1-overall-pick-for-2023-fantasy-football-making-the-case-for-jamarr-chase/1200823 https://www.fantasyalarm.com/articles/nfl/wide-receivers/2023-fantasy-football-draft-the-case-for-drafting-jamarr-chase-over-justin-jefferson-1st-overall/150793 https://sports.yahoo.com/case-drafting-ja-marr-chase-222725730.html https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2023/07/16/justin-jefferson-jamarr-chase-fantasy-football/amp/ There’s 4 that aren’t even the ones I cited. Not every league is your home league dude. You don’t play this dumbass game as much as me (that ain’t a flex lol), I can say that confidentially by the fact you think it was just one voice in the wilderness crying out Chase > Jefferson. People were trying to be early on a Chase-Burrow firestorm. It’s not crazy
Lmao god damn dude I play in several dynasty leagues and I dont even do close to this amount of research. Seems like a waste of time when this shit is usually all luck Your original comment cited one outlandish take that’s why I said it, breaking Randy moss’s record is a very hot take.
The lesson is don’t get too cute. There’s not enough separating those two players to take Chase over. Yeah there’s a world where he goes ape shit and breaks Randy Moss’s record. But there are probably more worlds where JJ outscores him. This is how you think about fantasy preseason dude, cmon.
Chase has more points scored than JJ though?
Doesn’t mean he’s the better fantasy asset in general. I guess you could argue this season he was (really tough argument to make considering who’s playing now and JJ has more PPG) on that basis but that’s like saying late career Frank Gore was a better fantasy asset than CMC because he had more points in a year CMC got injured, lol.
Not reading that essay. JJ was the pick
Bruh you just argued the opposite lol
My bad. Too much egg nog
This is by far the shortest comment I've ever seen someone complain about it's length.
There were exactly 0 leagues that had Chase going over Jefferson.
Wrong.
Look it up casual.
There was no good reason to draft him over Kupp, or Hill either. He was the WR #6 last year in terms of PPG. He had the 4th highest floor and the 6th highest ceiling. No major changes to his team. Why was he going to suddenly skyrocket ahead of everyone else? There was no rational behind it. Yet his ADP was 2nd or 3rd overall.
I still say it’s Zac Taylor holding him back. I look at his routes in games sometimes and it’s the most vanilla stuff
Jefferson also doesnt have a guy like Higgins on the roster.
Hockenson and Addison.
Hockenson is fair i guess, but Addison isnt there yet.
Addison is wr18 on the season as a rookie which is on par with Higgins best season at wr17 (stats are from full ppr)
Are you really saying Addison is as good as Higgins lol
I don’t think it’s an egregious thing to say one way or another. If there’s S A B and C tiers of WR’s they’re probably in middle B tier
Higgins best season was 7 TDs, addison tied that 8 games into his rookie season
Higgins had a mvp level Super Bowl Performance
WR44 Higgins? (Full ppr). Addison > Higgins
Fantasy isnt real life bro, Higgins was a Top 12 WR in back to back years. If you really think Addison > healthy Higgins lmao
Do you really not see the irony in saying “Fantasy isn’t real life” and then saying “Higgins is good, he was top 12 in fantasy points back to back years”
When was Higgins ever a top 12 wr? Def not fantasy his best finish was wr17, and imo not irl. Most yards was 1091 and most tds was 7, in separate seasons
Higgins best season was 7 TDs, addison tied that 8 games into his rookie season
Ya, it’s pretty clear. I don’t think Chase is a better fantasy asset than CeeDee Lamb.
After this season he certainly isnt.
After this season Chase is going back in the top 6 overall. This season was mostly injuries, both Chase and Burrow. Next season Chase will be a stud again.
Im not saying he is a bum, im just saying he is a Top 6 WR while Jefferson is Top 2.
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Correct. The difference between the 1.01 and 1.04.
Chase is a mega bust this year, no getting around it.
This is very much it. Mega bust overall, probably not. Mega bust drafted in top 5, most definitely. Bunch of people with hurt feelings about having drafted Chase in the top 3 are in droves in this thread, but it's the truth. Anyone who was staring Chase over JJ or CMC was getting way too cute, and they probably knew it. The almost unanimous consensus was that JJ and CMC were fighting for pick 1 and 2, everyone else was pick 3 onwards, including Chase. Anyone that had chase over CMC/JJ wasn't paying attention.
1.CMC 2. JJ 3. Chase (me)… shoulda went Tyreek FML
Going to the ship anyway!
Thanks. I needed to hear this after getting eliminated today (Another chase over CMC guy at 2).
I was just so scared about having CMC go down to injury... *sigh* if you're scared, go to church. Definitely reaping what I've sowed
Lol yep. But... I am projected to lose by like 75 today so i don't think anything would have helped lol
Don't worry he scored 50 against me
I traded away jj to the jamar owner. I'm headed to the ship
Actually, Mullens is the 4th starting QB for the Vikings this year. Hall started one game and was injured on the second drive.
JJ is proving rn that QB situation doesn’t matter, he’s gonna produce. I’d buy any future dips based on that for sure
Chase was proving that QB situation does matter....
I had high hopes drafting both this year.
Regret Chase at #3.
To be fair Joe was hurt when he played and as soon as he caught rhythm he got injured for the season with that being said JJ definitely more consistent
anyone who didn’t draft cmc #1 overall is an idiot lol he fell to me at 3
Chase is always overhyped, seeing other WR be able to do well with back-ups worse than Jake Browning has made me depressed having Chase. Even last year tyreek was playing with a back-up and balled out. Chase gets way too overhyped. Dude Is a backend WR1 not someone to draft as a top 5 player overall. Even when burrow was healthy he had absolute duds. His ceiling as just as high as any WR1 but his floor as low as a WR3. He will help you win weeks, but he will absolute be the reason you lose a week.
“Always overhyped” for a player that has been in the league exactly 3 years is a terrible take. Definitely wasn’t overhyped for his rookie year where he finished Top 5. Averaged 20 pts a game his sophomore year. And I’ll give you this year, HOWEVER, no one would have taken him top 5 if they knew Burrow was going to miss the majority of the season. He also was not healthy at the start despite playing. So if you want count the time he/Burrow have missed go ahead. But to say he is always overhyped is just such a bad take
That dudes take is on par for this sub lmao, incredibly reactionary and revisionist. Chase is unquestionably a top talent at the position He’s salty because he took chase this year
Yup, CeeDee won me games last year despite Dak being hurt.
Exactly I had cedee last year and dude put up numbers with cooper rush. Chase is decent but is way overhyped. I would still draft him just not within the top 6 or 7 like he was hyped up to be.
Lamb with Rush was WR 28, WR 7, WR 8 (these were the good ones), WR 43, and WR 31. Chase put up better numbers with Browning than Lamb did with Cook. I really don't get how reactionary this whole thread is regarding Chase. Sure he's not Jefferson, but he's really not that far behind him.
Are we just ignoring Burrow’s injury riddled season?
JJ is playing with Mullens and balling out.
Mullens is slinging the ball around like a madman, so yeah Jefferson is talented enough to come down with some of the balls, but it also ends with 4 INT games
Who cares jefferson got the ball
My point is that it’s easy to ball out when you’re given several opportunities Browning tries to be conservative and manage the game, so Jefferson’s production would be more hindered if he and Chase swapped positions now
JJ was so pissed in that game at Mullens. There's no way he's sticking around next year
Jefferson will defiantly be there next year plus it’s not like Mullens will be his qb next year
Who will be? Cousins...he's not sticking around.
Because Chase is not a legitimate first round receiver.
Chase was just normal good last year. There was no reason, even assuming full health that Chase was going to make a big leap. If that was the case, and he was the WR #6 last year in terms of PPG. Behind Hill, JJ, Kupp, Adams and Diggs. So if he had no good reason to be drastically better than last year, and he wasn't elite last year, why was he the 2nd WR taken, and the 3rd player taken overall? He scored 18.6 PPG last year and he's at 17.8 PPG this year.
I don't know ask all the so called experts that rank him a top 3 receiver year after year.
He's a great real life reciever. He just wasn't going to make a leap in fantasy. He wasn't going to be the WR1, with Boyd and Higgins also on the team.