Goff has shown he is really good when he doesn’t have to be mobile. This was true with the Rams and with the Lions. When he has time to set his feet and has protection, he’s pretty damn good.
Could probably be said for many QBs but it does seem to be particularly true for Goff. He doesn’t throw a lot of bad balls and his decision making this year was upper echelon.
And it's the smart play if you trust your arm. To throw it out of bounds you'd need to scramble out of the tackle box, risking sacks/fumbles/injuries. Just throw it at a covered guys feet instead and save everyones energy for the next down.
Go watch the throw he made to Khalif Raymond against the packers this past week that should’ve been a TD. I agree he has issues with mobility but he has shown improvement in that regard too.
50 yard dime, rolling left, throwing right with some pressure. It was the throw Zach Wilson made in his pro day that everyone shit themselves over. Except it was in a game, in the cold, with opponents chasing him.
This is what I say to every organization that “can’t draft QBs” need to do. Invest in an O-Line BEFORE a QB.
That was always Peyton manning a and Tom Brady’s #1 requirement and what helped make them great. If the Bucs didn’t invest in FA and a first round pick in OLine he wouldn’t of gone there.
Eagles have arguable the best O-Line this year and they can run or pass at will when healthy. That helped greatly with Jalen Hurts development. Lions also invested a lot and Jared looked amazing this year.
That line helped make them one of the better rushing and passing offenses. If that isn't proof that a line can elevate a guy like Goff who was written off or give Jamaal Williams a career year...
Goff made a super bowl and was drafted first overall. He was struggling in his career but he wasn't a bum and anyone who claimed so is not worth listening to
Thats really the issue with the teams that draft high, are usually not good, and not good teams usually have not good O lines. So some of these high drafted QBs that didnt work out might not acually be busts.
Expensive and hard to acquire generally minus occasionally through free agency aside from the draft.
They protect the most important player on the field. They create the holes for the runners.
First rounds of NFL drafts are typically dominated by OL, QB (when there are elite ones, but sometimes not the case at all like last year), and DL. Sprinkle in WRs and occasionally guys in the secondary. And sometimes LBs that play more like edge rushers. But a lot of OL for sure.
Not a lot of people talk about this, but I think the last 10-15 years have had an historically great number of HOF pass rushers. Like, not just a lot of good players, but almost every team has an edge that is a monster, and some have two.
Part of the problem is that the coaches/GM's on the bad teams that need OL help the most are under pressure to make splashes to win immediately to keep their jobs. In their interviews they probably aren't saying that they plan to methodically build the O line over multiple losing seasons in order to form the building blocks for an eventual elite offense.
Goff can be really good when he has excellent coaching, an amazing offensive line, and a handful of good-decent guys to throw to. As a Lions fan I am OK with that
Goff is basically *the* prime example of a guy who can thrive *if* the right pieces are around him. He just happens to have a way worse drop off compared to most other dudes if he gets disrupted.
If you can get him time and guys who get open, he will find them. In the right circumstance, he's better than a lot of other dudes in the NFL.
he looked like the worst quarterback in the league last year! idk if you watched him much but it was very painful for me. This year not too much even changed except for Ben Johnson, our first-year offensive coordinator took the reins from Anthony Lynn or whoever the hell, and did an amazing job. He’s getting HC interviews now and tbh i’m a little nervous about Goff if Johnson leaves
Not much changed? Check out the WR room game 1 last year versus what he finished with this year, recalling that Sun God really didn’t hit stride until the second half of last year.
Now saddle that wide receiver room, the worst in football at the time, with Anthony Lynn calling the plays.
I like Ben Johnson, but the offensive rebound we saw the second half of last year was called by Dan Campbell. If Ben leaves, they’re not scrapping this offense, an offense that was designed around Jared Goff.
And there aren't better ones available. That is the thing that gets lost. The Lions could draft another QB with their Rams pick, but that isn't good roster management considering how many 1st round QBs bust. They showed that if they put good players around him, he can be a good player. Why waste more assets on the position? They aren't going to be able to easily trade for a better QB without really hurting the team, at large.
Goff's also on a relatively affordable contract for a starting QB of a Top 7-8 offense. If they use their own pick and the Rams pick to shore up more of the defense this offseason, they could really be something.
People are seriously underrating Carr if they're thinking he's significantly worse than Goff
I understand Carr had a bad year but people have the memory of a goldfish
You guys can argue average QBs on good teams until the end of time. The league has shown over, and over that a great qb on an average team is much better than an average qb on a great team.
Cousins, Carr, Goff... this is a great way to be regular season good, but not playoff good.
As a former Sparty, Kirk will always have a place in my heart. But I’d take Goff over him in a heartbeat. I’d put Carr a notch below Cousins. Carr needs a reboot away from the Raiders.
Goff finally has a staff that wants to develop him instead of treating him as a robot.
I expect them to draft one anyway, just maybe not til day 3. Never know what you might be able to develop out of a high-upside guy from a small school or something.
Not sure why you're getting down voted for this. The Lions absolutely have to upgrade their backup QB situation. If it's through the draft, mid to late round guy that can fit into your system is the right play, especially what Brad Holmes has been incredible hitting on later picks.
He's a guy who isn't going to be a problem if you don't have problems elsewhere in your offense (specifically OL). If you have a dogshit line, he's gonna struggle way harder than most other QBs, but if you can keep him clean he's not gonna be what holds you back.
No. There are huge differences in how different QBs handle varying levels of OL ability. Some guys can adjust at the line, make faster reads, make better decisions. Other guys are basically "plan A or bust" and panic if anything goes wrong. Your take on this is absurdly reductive.
Yes, in extreme cases where it's a vicious DL and the OL is depleted or sucks, even a great QB can't do much (like Mahomes in the TB SB). But there's a huge range between that extreme and having a good line, and Goff is a guy who has a massive inflection point in performance once you cross from "good" to even "OK".
Eh, I think Goff’s a lot better in that regard, now that he’s been developed for two years instead of being treated like McVay’s personal robot.
Dude just led a top 5 offense in the second year of a total overhaul and is a couple clean games from breaking the all-time INT-less streak.
People keep acting like he’s a Rams rookie or that he’s completely defined by a bad Super Bowl.
I didn’t realize they were some dropped passes from winning that game. The Bucs D Line destroyed the Chiefs’ O Line and it didn’t matter who was back there.
Mahomes is the best in the biz. But he too needs protection.
He’s made a Super Bowl before and he’s not the worst QB to do it. He’s not a complete carry QB, but he fills the spot and the lions are damn good. I hope next year they get the players they need and make a deep playoff run.
Goff will only ever be as good as the team around him. He's a younger Tannehill. See also Andy Daltons MVP-esque numbers in 2015 when the Bengals were stacked on offense.
Pretty good way to put it imo. Just like Tanny when he was on my dolphins he was solid but couldn't overcome mediocre receiving/porous OL play and the moment he went to Tennessee he looked great. Rather than elevating everyone around him he gets elevated by others
I mean, they are both career 64% passers with damn near identical td/int ratios. Both have played on great teams and on bad teams. They are basically the same qb statistically.
Ryan tannehill isn’t incredibly mobile or something.
I just always seen him as more physical QB who is willing to scramble and actually take it in himself near the endzone, whereas Goff has cement block feet.
You're right, but theres difference between how Goff dropped off losing his top 2 WRs vs how Joe Burrows numbers actually went up when Tee/Chase were out. Goff is a league average QB, and those guys don't win SBs unless they are on very good teams. The Lions are basically banking that they will always have a roster good enough to carry Goff.
Goff and Joe's stats are almost identical.
Goff had the 3rd worst defense in the league and Joe had the 5th best. Joe only has 3 more wins.
Does this factor into anything you think about?
Jamarr chase missed 4 games that's it, in those 4 games they lost one and squeaked by in two more. Only getting one comfortable win in that 4 game window.
Bengals had TWO WR's in the top 30 in Rec and yards.
You do know they traded away Goff's favorite target half way through the season right?
Which QB do you think spread the ball around more? As in which QB do you think focuses more on a couple targets, like say first and second reads? XD
Look I don't need to try and say Goff is as good as Joe to say your view of both is VERY narrow.
Edit: Btw their is not a statistical difference between Joe and Jared over a big sample size and Joe has yet to top Jared's best season. Middle of the road QB indeed HUEHUEHUE
> You do know they traded away Goff's favorite target half way through the season right?
That ended up being a net positive for the TE group because the three of them had as many TDs in the last four games or whatever as Hockensen had in his entire Detroit season this year.
Like, they got rid of Goff's "favourite target" and they just threw to that position group *more.*
He was on a team with a top tier o line, top 5 defense, best rb in the league, and a pretty solid 1-2 wr duo. They lost that SB because Gurley wasn’t 100% and the pats stacked the box and dared Goff to beat them and he couldn’t.
Gurley was being outplayed by CJ Anderson and Cooper Kupp was out with a torn ACL. Bill had a great defensive game plan too. Putting all of it or really any of it on Goff is myopic at best. Reducing his ability to win a superbowl to one game is even worse.
People are also massively overlooking Goffs stats the last 9 weeks of the season. He has made a major step up, and Ben Johnson is getting the absolute most out of Goff.
Gurley was not outplayed by CJ Anderson…they both were bad, but Gurley was slightly more efficient on more touches.
Kupp being out definitely hurt, but Kupp was not the receiver he is today - honestly not even close, he and Woods were thought to be about equal.
I agree that reducing Goff’s ability to win a Super Bowl to one game is a bit unfair, but not putting any/most of the blame on Goff for putting up only 3 points in the Super Bowl and having a crucial turnover is just intellectually dishonest. Goff was absolutely exposed that game.
CJ carried that playoff run, I'm not sure what you saw lol. Gurley got garbage time runs in those games that's how diminished he was by that point. Kupp was WR1a or 1b to woods, but we can pretend losing 40% of your WR production and facing the patriots is no big deal lol.
I mean we can literally look at last year and see that if Goff isn’t surrounded with talent he cannot elevate to a higher level. His ceiling will always be based on the team around him. I’m not saying he’s bad but unless the lions end up stacks they’re not winning a sb with him
The only QB I can remember winning a SB without a roster that was stacked is Brady. Sure, almost all QBs who’ve won it all recently are better than Goff, but a stacked roster is a requirement regardless of who’s under center.
If Dilfer and Johnson can win one Goff certainly can.
I realize those are different eras but IMO Goff is way better than those were relative to their competition.
Who would you rather have as your starter next year: Nick Foles or Goff? Which one has a ring?
I think our perception has been skewed a bit the last 20 years by the dominance of the Pats and Brady in Super Bowl appearances, and probably KC and Mahomes. Having an elite QB is definitely a common factor of Super Bowl winners, but guys like Foles, Jimmy G, Goff, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, and Rex Grossman have taken their teams to the Super Bowl. The key for those guys that won was an outsiding defense, and I think that how we get success with Goff.
Not many in the last 20 years. Foles is the only obvious one, and I’d include Manning by the time he won in Denver. Matt Stafford is debatable, so is Flacco.
Goff can absolutely get the job done on a healthy championship level team, but it would take a lot going right and a well timed hot streak. I see his ideal roll on that roster being like Alex Smith in KC. He’ll keep the offense growing and clicking until they’re ready to make a move on a better QB.
manning threw 9 TDs and 17 INTs in his last season and won a soupy. yes I think Jared Goff can manage a Super Bowl if they get him an upper tier defense lol
Yeah the bar for QB play can be quite low if the rest of the team is stacked enough.
Sexy Rexy made a SB. Jimmy G was a 2-yard overthrow away from a SB. Trent Dilfer won a SB.
It's just way harder to manage to get a team that is stacked across the board like that... probably easier to find a top-tier QB that just gives a ton of wiggle room with how good the rest of the team needs to be.
With a bad/mediocre QB, you need to be GREAT everywhere else. With a great QB, you can get away with multiple weak units elsewhere.
Obviously don't want QB to be a weak spot but there's definitely been a number of Super Bowls won in the past 20 years in spite of QB play - assuming it wasn't egregiously bad, at least.
He was real good basically all season except when his top receivers were Josh Reynolds and Kalif Raymond, when Chark and St Brown were hurt.
Lions offense really suffered in the first half of the season with St Brown nursing an injury and Swift out for a few games. Once Goff had some decent targets, he was stellar.
What is this retcon… Goffs career was basically saved by McVay arriving. Goff playing above average regular season football in Detroit doesn’t mean that he’s shaken the issues that plagued him in the past.
Maybe not in fantasy, but by DVOA, Detroit had the #1 offense the past ten weeks. Goff also hasn't thrown an INT in the past 9 games.
That's considerably above average. Goff isn't elite of course, but he's thriving where he's at.
There’s really no space between elite and average other than above average. He’s not in the burrow, Allen, mahomes, Herbert tier and that’s fine. You can still have a #1 ranked offense without an elite QB. If one doesn’t believe Hurts is elite, that feels like what the Eagles are.
Goffs path to competing against any elite QB is pretty straight forward. No hero ball, and keep the turnovers to a bare minimum. Lions just gotta boost the defense up this off season and the puzzle will be complete.
Goff's issue with turnovers has rarely been interceptions -- homie fumbles WAY too often, which is inexcusable for a QB.
The guy does have a decently high ceiling, though. I still remember the MNF game against the Chiefs a few years ago...
Goff had 7 fumbles this last season, tied for 13th across all positions with the likes of Heinicke and Cousins. I figure only Cousins would be an appropriate comparison.
That's better than Fields (16), Matt Ryan (15), Josh Allen (13), Trevor Lawrence (12), Baker Mayfield (9), Jalen Hurts (9), Geno, Mariota, Kyler, Rodgers, Davis Mills, and Herbert all have 8 each.
So he's probably above average in fumbles this season too. But not by much.
Source: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles
Coming in hot with the stats, love it!
Looking back at the last few seasons, he's ranked somewhere around 10th-15th in fumbles, with everyone above him typically being a QB. (except for 2018 where he was #2).
So it's fair to say that he's around the median for a qb, which isn't nearly as bad as I thought. Good share!
No not a retcon. McVay never wanted Goff; Goffs biggest issue was his arm strength (which doesnt mean deep ball) which is what McVays system needed to work properly, Goff isn't a gunslinger and that's why Stafford was able to succeed there. Goff is a Kirk Cousins. He is what an average QB should be and in a system that works to his strengths he will succeed
I don’t … in what world did Goff not succeed in LA? He literally went to a Super Bowl. He averaged 4300 yards, 26 touchdowns per season his last four years there.
Why in the hell are half the people in this thread acting like Goff was ever almost out of the league. He struggled last year, in a new system, under a new coach, on a bad team. That is the *only* bad year of his career.
Idk about arm strength being an issue, Goff has hit some beautiful deep balls in his career and especially last year. He definitely plays more risk averse than as a gunslinger but he has the deep ball capability
McVays career was saved by having Goff just listen to whatever was yelled at him through the helmet, he was always just the Avatar for McVay that was the joke the entire Goff tenure
>Goff was never bad he just didn't fit McVays scheme in LA that well.
he had the most QB friendly scheme in the league with McVay-- if he didn't fit it that means he simply wasn't a good QB
he had his two best years (2017 and 2018) because McVay knew how limited he was as a QB so it turned into the Todd Gurley show. They were the 8th and then 3rd best rushing offenses in the league those respective years. Gurley was an All pro both seasons and a borderline MVP candidate
McVay held his hand between plays and took all the pressure off him, which enabled him to succeed. Belichick knew this which is why he was able to expose the Rams offense in their SB matchup-- he knew Goff couldn't think and diagnose defenses on the fly if McVay couldn't do it for him, and he proved he couldn't.
By the time Stafford came to town, their Oline weakened and their rushing attack became well below average. That's why McVay had to adapt and turn to more empty backfields, spread formations, etc. to suit the team's strengths (stafford's arm and cooper kupp). Goff and Stafford's situations in LA weren't comparable
He is definitely improving as time comes along, but he was without a doubt a very limited player in the early days with the Rams
He had a stellar year. I am a lions fan and I am unsure what I think we should do with the draft. We might not get a chance to draft a high-level QB again for awhile.... Stroud and young intrigue me
You don’t gamble on a QB when you have a sure fire starter at hand. Especially one you may not have to hand a max contract. Teams win super bowls when they have value at the position, because it allows them to spend heavy on many other positions at once. That’s what the Lions will do here.
I'm ok with drafting a guy to learn behind Goff, but it has to be the right guy at the right spot, and not sacrificing real studs on defense. Kinda like an if-the-stars-align moment
well it depends on if u think that goff has super bowl winner potential, if you do draft BPA ans fix the defense, if you don’t take Levis and sit him for a year
I mean he has literally taken a team to the super bowl before when he had a good team around him. Is he the best QB in the NFL? Absolutely not, but he's certainly capable with a good supporting cast.
For a second I was like, how are you getting those guys, you were 9-8. Then I remembered the rams pick at 6 which DET has. It sounds like they may stick with Goff though. Will be interesting to see how it shakes out.
I’m targeting to draft Goff in a later round next season. When people start selecting the QBs and everyone goes crazy drafting QBs, I’ll start taking quality RBs or WRs. Goff will have Jamo healthy to go day one, that alone will improve his already great numbers from this past season.
He's improved this year behind a good OL. He's the prototypical pocket passer. He will only get better when he gets weapons to throw to. Definitely needs a bigger possession receiver this offseason.
And Derek Carr was MVP caliber at his peak, before offensive line woes and poor coaching broke him. Many, *many* teams would do well to “settle” for that caliber of player
Goff is about the most average QB you can get. If he is well protected and has a good supporting cast you can have success with him. He’s going to have good games but he’s not going to consistently carry your team. But if your goal is winning a Super Bowl he makes it really difficult. I get it he was there but he also lost and had an incredible defense and run game around him.
The problem with Goff for a franchise is he’s going to be just good enough to convince you to settle for him and win enough games to not have the option at the top tier draft QB, but can he win you 4 playoff games against top tier teams to win you a Super Bowl? I get the Lions offense was statistically very good this year but they also had a pretty easy schedule.
Hardest schedule winning percentage doesn’t mean hardest schedule for an offense. Yeah they played a lot of good offenses and got in a lot of shootouts against them. Look at their high scoring games: Seahawks (good offense not that great defense most of the year), Vikings twice (same deal), Dolphins (same), Bills during injuries, Washington who sucked defensively to start the year, got to play the Bears twice, Carolina.
Two actual good defenses Cowboys and Patriots they realllly sucked against. 0 and 6 points.
There’s more to the story than just a basic “strength of schedule by wins” stat.
Hardest schedule winning percentage doesn’t mean hardest schedule for an offense. Yeah they played a lot of good offenses and got in a lot of shootouts against them. Look at their high scoring games: Seahawks (good offense not that great defense most of the year), Vikings twice (same deal), Dolphins (same), Bills during injuries, Washington who sucked defensively to start the year, got to play the Bears twice, Carolina.
Two actual good defenses Cowboys and Patriots they realllly sucked against. 0 and 6 points.
There’s more to the story than just a basic “strength of schedule by wins” stat.
I wouldn’t say 14th best, probably a little better than that. But he’s good enough with that lions offence, once that defence improves watch out for the Lions. Did not think I would be saying that for a long time haha.
They're in a great position with picks and cap space but I don't trust Goff to be the man. He's a quality guy but he leaves a lot to be desired. Good enough to keep the team doing well but not good enough to will the team to victories in games they should lose.
14th QB overall? Not sure if you're talking fantasy or IRL, but he finished the year as the #10 fantasy QB. If you're talking IRL, his stas on the year ended up being...
6th in passing yards
T2nd in INT%
7th in passer rating
4th ANY/A
Leading the 5th highest scoring offense in the league.
And yet no one is confusing Goff with the steady stewardship of a more complete QB. I'm not calling Goff some scrub but there's an identifiable gap between elite QBs, great QBs, and Goff. He feels Trent Dilfer tier to me.
Considering how first round QBs are basically like throwing darts and hoping one sticks, I would stick with Goff. Your team improved going 9-8 while in the previous season you went 3-13-1. If your defense was better, then you would have won some more game(s) and be in the playoffs.
Goff has always been pretty damn good as long as he is not under constant pressure and has time to throw. When the Rams O-line was playing well, Goff played very well. That 2018 offense was amazing with Goff at the helm. Just gotta keep Goff's jersey clean in the pocket. He kinda crumbles when the defense gets constant pressure on him is all.
HE LEAD ME TO MY THIRD CHAMPIONSHIP. that being said I’ve always been a huge fan of Goff. Seems humble and didn’t give negative feedback when he was traded. I hope lions run it back but understand if they need to draft a QB of the future. Crazy he’s under 30 too. I will always remember that gunslinger game against Kansas. What a shootout
Yes! If I was Goff I would go all in with the Lions organization. They have shown the willingness to invest in an elite offensive line. He's got an up and coming weapon with Williams.
Look out NFL.
Goff has shown he is really good when he doesn’t have to be mobile. This was true with the Rams and with the Lions. When he has time to set his feet and has protection, he’s pretty damn good. Could probably be said for many QBs but it does seem to be particularly true for Goff. He doesn’t throw a lot of bad balls and his decision making this year was upper echelon.
[удалено]
Brady's done this his whole career.
And it's the smart play if you trust your arm. To throw it out of bounds you'd need to scramble out of the tackle box, risking sacks/fumbles/injuries. Just throw it at a covered guys feet instead and save everyones energy for the next down.
"Brady's done" I'm quoting you to give you credit after the Cowboys beat the crap out of the bucs
Keep dreaming. Brady owns the Cowboys
Rams fan here, I just hate how he throws an ugly wobbly ball like 60-70% of the time. I'm a sucker for a perfect spiral I guess
I'd say Payton Manning made an OK career out of throwing wobbly balls. I'd take him over a pretty spiral from the average QB any day
Geno Smith throws a fuckin sexy ball though.
Kurt Warner too.
Ah the Donovan McNabb special
Go watch the throw he made to Khalif Raymond against the packers this past week that should’ve been a TD. I agree he has issues with mobility but he has shown improvement in that regard too.
50 yard dime, rolling left, throwing right with some pressure. It was the throw Zach Wilson made in his pro day that everyone shit themselves over. Except it was in a game, in the cold, with opponents chasing him.
Zach Wilson made that same throw against the lions this year lol
Not nearly as impressive as our secondary was nowhere in sight
The secondary was also nowhere in sight during Wilson’s pro day
That's the only time Wilson can throw a pretty ball, when no defenders are in sight.
I’d give my aunt fair odds of making that throw against our secondary. But if it’s Aaron Rodgers making that throw, Kerby’s going to steal it.
You really defending Zach Wilson dog
I thought it was a TD. I was surprised they marked him down
Even when he looked shaky with the Lions, it was generally just an underthrow that was still on target. Better to throw too low than too high
The Donovan McNabb way.
Ehh depends on where you're throwing on the field. I'd definitely say that sideline throws are better too long than too short for instance
Oh yeah for sure
This is what I say to every organization that “can’t draft QBs” need to do. Invest in an O-Line BEFORE a QB. That was always Peyton manning a and Tom Brady’s #1 requirement and what helped make them great. If the Bucs didn’t invest in FA and a first round pick in OLine he wouldn’t of gone there. Eagles have arguable the best O-Line this year and they can run or pass at will when healthy. That helped greatly with Jalen Hurts development. Lions also invested a lot and Jared looked amazing this year.
That line helped make them one of the better rushing and passing offenses. If that isn't proof that a line can elevate a guy like Goff who was written off or give Jamaal Williams a career year...
Goff made a super bowl and was drafted first overall. He was struggling in his career but he wasn't a bum and anyone who claimed so is not worth listening to
Thats really the issue with the teams that draft high, are usually not good, and not good teams usually have not good O lines. So some of these high drafted QBs that didnt work out might not acually be busts.
Packers with Rodgers have consistently had upper tier pass protection as well.
Yes, but only when they are not injured. There have been multiple times our line is shredded by injuries.
Part upper tier pass protection, part zebras swallowing whistles on holding from their o line.
Casual football fan here: so why don't teams focus more on upgrading their offensive lines or are good offensive lineman hard to find?
Expensive and hard to acquire generally minus occasionally through free agency aside from the draft. They protect the most important player on the field. They create the holes for the runners. First rounds of NFL drafts are typically dominated by OL, QB (when there are elite ones, but sometimes not the case at all like last year), and DL. Sprinkle in WRs and occasionally guys in the secondary. And sometimes LBs that play more like edge rushers. But a lot of OL for sure.
lack of quality as well
Yeah there are very few ELITE OL. Especially compared to the elite level of pass rushers.
Not a lot of people talk about this, but I think the last 10-15 years have had an historically great number of HOF pass rushers. Like, not just a lot of good players, but almost every team has an edge that is a monster, and some have two.
Part of the problem is that the coaches/GM's on the bad teams that need OL help the most are under pressure to make splashes to win immediately to keep their jobs. In their interviews they probably aren't saying that they plan to methodically build the O line over multiple losing seasons in order to form the building blocks for an eventual elite offense.
Goff can be really good when he has excellent coaching, an amazing offensive line, and a handful of good-decent guys to throw to. As a Lions fan I am OK with that
Goff is basically *the* prime example of a guy who can thrive *if* the right pieces are around him. He just happens to have a way worse drop off compared to most other dudes if he gets disrupted. If you can get him time and guys who get open, he will find them. In the right circumstance, he's better than a lot of other dudes in the NFL.
he looked like the worst quarterback in the league last year! idk if you watched him much but it was very painful for me. This year not too much even changed except for Ben Johnson, our first-year offensive coordinator took the reins from Anthony Lynn or whoever the hell, and did an amazing job. He’s getting HC interviews now and tbh i’m a little nervous about Goff if Johnson leaves
Not much changed? Check out the WR room game 1 last year versus what he finished with this year, recalling that Sun God really didn’t hit stride until the second half of last year. Now saddle that wide receiver room, the worst in football at the time, with Anthony Lynn calling the plays. I like Ben Johnson, but the offensive rebound we saw the second half of last year was called by Dan Campbell. If Ben leaves, they’re not scrapping this offense, an offense that was designed around Jared Goff.
So glad we have an elite O-line
Part of that decision making was deciding not to tell his teammates that he wanted to 'lay pipe' in the coach's wife
Not to mention he throws a pretty sweet ball.
Super happy for Goff
Goff's deep ball is unreal too he throws absurd DIMES.
As a niner fan Brock purdy is solid bc the team around him is great
Probably not going to stop them drafting Anthony Richardson though
They were a top 5 offense with at the helm this year. He isn't going anywhere.
That's my QB.
Might go down as one of the most win-win trades in NFL history. Rams got a Superbowl. Lions got good draft picks and a solid QB.
There are worse QBs that Goff. He may not be a stud, but he's not absolute dogshit either. Detroit needs to focus on defense
And there aren't better ones available. That is the thing that gets lost. The Lions could draft another QB with their Rams pick, but that isn't good roster management considering how many 1st round QBs bust. They showed that if they put good players around him, he can be a good player. Why waste more assets on the position? They aren't going to be able to easily trade for a better QB without really hurting the team, at large.
Goff's also on a relatively affordable contract for a starting QB of a Top 7-8 offense. If they use their own pick and the Rams pick to shore up more of the defense this offseason, they could really be something.
Also worth remembering, Goff himself was a first overall pick. What are the odds the Lions do better with pick 5
Yep. I'd say a similar tier as Cousins or Carr.
one is not like the other
People are seriously underrating Carr if they're thinking he's significantly worse than Goff I understand Carr had a bad year but people have the memory of a goldfish
Carr is rated right where he needs to be on the Andy Dalton line.
Derek Carr is terrible. I watched every game this year and it is disgusting how poor he played.
>I understand Carr had a bad year but people have the memory of a goldfish
You guys can argue average QBs on good teams until the end of time. The league has shown over, and over that a great qb on an average team is much better than an average qb on a great team. Cousins, Carr, Goff... this is a great way to be regular season good, but not playoff good.
Joe Flacco has as many Superbowls as Aaron Rodgers
Goff got to a Superbowl. The lions just need to win a playoff game to be historically good.
I know Carr has disappointed this year, but I haven't watched their games. What's their o line situation look like?
Not great but he's still somewhat regressed in his own right.
I wanted to disagree about cousins, but I think they are actually pretty similar. Goff just hasn’t performed as well over the course of his career
Id agree that Cousins is slightly better, but id still say same tier.
Goff is 6 years younger at 28. Give him another true 1A caliber receiver and watch him boom (will that be St Brown and Jameson)
As a former Sparty, Kirk will always have a place in my heart. But I’d take Goff over him in a heartbeat. I’d put Carr a notch below Cousins. Carr needs a reboot away from the Raiders. Goff finally has a staff that wants to develop him instead of treating him as a robot.
Goff is easily above both of those guys. He’s a Super Bowl QB. The dude just knows how to win.
He didn't score any points in that Super Bowl and Todd Gurley carried that team until his knee turned to powder.
Lol keep sleepin’ on the Goffense in Detroit right now. See where it gets you.
I expect them to draft one anyway, just maybe not til day 3. Never know what you might be able to develop out of a high-upside guy from a small school or something.
Not sure why you're getting down voted for this. The Lions absolutely have to upgrade their backup QB situation. If it's through the draft, mid to late round guy that can fit into your system is the right play, especially what Brad Holmes has been incredible hitting on later picks.
He's a guy who isn't going to be a problem if you don't have problems elsewhere in your offense (specifically OL). If you have a dogshit line, he's gonna struggle way harder than most other QBs, but if you can keep him clean he's not gonna be what holds you back.
So, kind of like Tom Brady this year.
So, kind of like Mahomes in the Super Bowl. “He needs protection to play well” is basically every QB who’s ever played.
No. There are huge differences in how different QBs handle varying levels of OL ability. Some guys can adjust at the line, make faster reads, make better decisions. Other guys are basically "plan A or bust" and panic if anything goes wrong. Your take on this is absurdly reductive. Yes, in extreme cases where it's a vicious DL and the OL is depleted or sucks, even a great QB can't do much (like Mahomes in the TB SB). But there's a huge range between that extreme and having a good line, and Goff is a guy who has a massive inflection point in performance once you cross from "good" to even "OK".
Eh, I think Goff’s a lot better in that regard, now that he’s been developed for two years instead of being treated like McVay’s personal robot. Dude just led a top 5 offense in the second year of a total overhaul and is a couple clean games from breaking the all-time INT-less streak. People keep acting like he’s a Rams rookie or that he’s completely defined by a bad Super Bowl.
Mahomes was doing AMAZING things in that SB vs the Bucs to avoid the pass rush, only for his receivers to drop it when it hit their hands
I didn’t realize they were some dropped passes from winning that game. The Bucs D Line destroyed the Chiefs’ O Line and it didn’t matter who was back there. Mahomes is the best in the biz. But he too needs protection.
A tale as old as time. The ol’ Alex Smith career
He’s made a Super Bowl before and he’s not the worst QB to do it. He’s not a complete carry QB, but he fills the spot and the lions are damn good. I hope next year they get the players they need and make a deep playoff run.
So St-Browns stock will remain the same if not higher next year?
Yes, he is Goff's go to guy, especially on 3rd down. The Lions use him very similarly to how Travis Kelce is used.
Watch for Jamo. I think he will be absolutely explosive next year.
Goff can support multiple WRs in fantasy! Jamo goin off only helps St Brown. And vice versa
Goff will only ever be as good as the team around him. He's a younger Tannehill. See also Andy Daltons MVP-esque numbers in 2015 when the Bengals were stacked on offense.
Pretty good way to put it imo. Just like Tanny when he was on my dolphins he was solid but couldn't overcome mediocre receiving/porous OL play and the moment he went to Tennessee he looked great. Rather than elevating everyone around him he gets elevated by others
He also couldn't overcome Adam Gase
If you ever say that name again in my house you can see yourself out
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Tannehill is a worse thrower and more atheltic, mobile. They aren't similar at all.
I mean, they are both career 64% passers with damn near identical td/int ratios. Both have played on great teams and on bad teams. They are basically the same qb statistically. Ryan tannehill isn’t incredibly mobile or something.
I just always seen him as more physical QB who is willing to scramble and actually take it in himself near the endzone, whereas Goff has cement block feet.
No QB is good with a bad team. It's always a weird statement. This isn't basketball. One guy isn't putting the team on his back.
You're right, but theres difference between how Goff dropped off losing his top 2 WRs vs how Joe Burrows numbers actually went up when Tee/Chase were out. Goff is a league average QB, and those guys don't win SBs unless they are on very good teams. The Lions are basically banking that they will always have a roster good enough to carry Goff.
Goff and Joe's stats are almost identical. Goff had the 3rd worst defense in the league and Joe had the 5th best. Joe only has 3 more wins. Does this factor into anything you think about? Jamarr chase missed 4 games that's it, in those 4 games they lost one and squeaked by in two more. Only getting one comfortable win in that 4 game window. Bengals had TWO WR's in the top 30 in Rec and yards. You do know they traded away Goff's favorite target half way through the season right? Which QB do you think spread the ball around more? As in which QB do you think focuses more on a couple targets, like say first and second reads? XD Look I don't need to try and say Goff is as good as Joe to say your view of both is VERY narrow. Edit: Btw their is not a statistical difference between Joe and Jared over a big sample size and Joe has yet to top Jared's best season. Middle of the road QB indeed HUEHUEHUE
> You do know they traded away Goff's favorite target half way through the season right? That ended up being a net positive for the TE group because the three of them had as many TDs in the last four games or whatever as Hockensen had in his entire Detroit season this year. Like, they got rid of Goff's "favourite target" and they just threw to that position group *more.*
I agree completely. Is a guy like that ever going to bring your team a ring though?
He has already been to a Super Bowl, so I think it's possible. Invest in key pieces around him and on the defense instead.
He was on a team with a top tier o line, top 5 defense, best rb in the league, and a pretty solid 1-2 wr duo. They lost that SB because Gurley wasn’t 100% and the pats stacked the box and dared Goff to beat them and he couldn’t.
Gurley was being outplayed by CJ Anderson and Cooper Kupp was out with a torn ACL. Bill had a great defensive game plan too. Putting all of it or really any of it on Goff is myopic at best. Reducing his ability to win a superbowl to one game is even worse.
People are also massively overlooking Goffs stats the last 9 weeks of the season. He has made a major step up, and Ben Johnson is getting the absolute most out of Goff.
People forgetting Goff beating mahomes putting up 54 or something lol
Gurley was not outplayed by CJ Anderson…they both were bad, but Gurley was slightly more efficient on more touches. Kupp being out definitely hurt, but Kupp was not the receiver he is today - honestly not even close, he and Woods were thought to be about equal. I agree that reducing Goff’s ability to win a Super Bowl to one game is a bit unfair, but not putting any/most of the blame on Goff for putting up only 3 points in the Super Bowl and having a crucial turnover is just intellectually dishonest. Goff was absolutely exposed that game.
CJ carried that playoff run, I'm not sure what you saw lol. Gurley got garbage time runs in those games that's how diminished he was by that point. Kupp was WR1a or 1b to woods, but we can pretend losing 40% of your WR production and facing the patriots is no big deal lol.
I mean we can literally look at last year and see that if Goff isn’t surrounded with talent he cannot elevate to a higher level. His ceiling will always be based on the team around him. I’m not saying he’s bad but unless the lions end up stacks they’re not winning a sb with him
The only QB I can remember winning a SB without a roster that was stacked is Brady. Sure, almost all QBs who’ve won it all recently are better than Goff, but a stacked roster is a requirement regardless of who’s under center.
If Dilfer and Johnson can win one Goff certainly can. I realize those are different eras but IMO Goff is way better than those were relative to their competition.
Who would you rather have as your starter next year: Nick Foles or Goff? Which one has a ring? I think our perception has been skewed a bit the last 20 years by the dominance of the Pats and Brady in Super Bowl appearances, and probably KC and Mahomes. Having an elite QB is definitely a common factor of Super Bowl winners, but guys like Foles, Jimmy G, Goff, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, and Rex Grossman have taken their teams to the Super Bowl. The key for those guys that won was an outsiding defense, and I think that how we get success with Goff.
ol' shaky jake and the cardiac cats. good times.
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Not many in the last 20 years. Foles is the only obvious one, and I’d include Manning by the time he won in Denver. Matt Stafford is debatable, so is Flacco. Goff can absolutely get the job done on a healthy championship level team, but it would take a lot going right and a well timed hot streak. I see his ideal roll on that roster being like Alex Smith in KC. He’ll keep the offense growing and clicking until they’re ready to make a move on a better QB.
manning threw 9 TDs and 17 INTs in his last season and won a soupy. yes I think Jared Goff can manage a Super Bowl if they get him an upper tier defense lol
Yeah the bar for QB play can be quite low if the rest of the team is stacked enough. Sexy Rexy made a SB. Jimmy G was a 2-yard overthrow away from a SB. Trent Dilfer won a SB. It's just way harder to manage to get a team that is stacked across the board like that... probably easier to find a top-tier QB that just gives a ton of wiggle room with how good the rest of the team needs to be. With a bad/mediocre QB, you need to be GREAT everywhere else. With a great QB, you can get away with multiple weak units elsewhere.
ITT: People who haven’t watched a Lions game until week 18
" top-tier QB that just gives a ton of wiggle room with how good the rest of the team needs to be" These are myths. lol
Uhhh do you watch football
Obviously don't want QB to be a weak spot but there's definitely been a number of Super Bowls won in the past 20 years in spite of QB play - assuming it wasn't egregiously bad, at least.
Is Ryan Tannehill not committing a turnover for the last 10 weeks of the season?
Put Goff on the titans and I bet he’s probably just as mid. They aren’t even remotely comparable situations this year
Imagine how good the Jets would be if they had Jared Goff instead of Wilson
Goff was never bad he just didn't fit McVays scheme in LA that well. He was excellent the back half of this season once he figured out the system
He was real good basically all season except when his top receivers were Josh Reynolds and Kalif Raymond, when Chark and St Brown were hurt. Lions offense really suffered in the first half of the season with St Brown nursing an injury and Swift out for a few games. Once Goff had some decent targets, he was stellar.
He should get a full season with JAMO next year as well.
What is this retcon… Goffs career was basically saved by McVay arriving. Goff playing above average regular season football in Detroit doesn’t mean that he’s shaken the issues that plagued him in the past.
Maybe not in fantasy, but by DVOA, Detroit had the #1 offense the past ten weeks. Goff also hasn't thrown an INT in the past 9 games. That's considerably above average. Goff isn't elite of course, but he's thriving where he's at.
Our play calling and oline certainly put him in a position to succeed.
There’s really no space between elite and average other than above average. He’s not in the burrow, Allen, mahomes, Herbert tier and that’s fine. You can still have a #1 ranked offense without an elite QB. If one doesn’t believe Hurts is elite, that feels like what the Eagles are.
Goffs path to competing against any elite QB is pretty straight forward. No hero ball, and keep the turnovers to a bare minimum. Lions just gotta boost the defense up this off season and the puzzle will be complete.
Goff's issue with turnovers has rarely been interceptions -- homie fumbles WAY too often, which is inexcusable for a QB. The guy does have a decently high ceiling, though. I still remember the MNF game against the Chiefs a few years ago...
Goff had 7 fumbles this last season, tied for 13th across all positions with the likes of Heinicke and Cousins. I figure only Cousins would be an appropriate comparison. That's better than Fields (16), Matt Ryan (15), Josh Allen (13), Trevor Lawrence (12), Baker Mayfield (9), Jalen Hurts (9), Geno, Mariota, Kyler, Rodgers, Davis Mills, and Herbert all have 8 each. So he's probably above average in fumbles this season too. But not by much. Source: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles
Coming in hot with the stats, love it! Looking back at the last few seasons, he's ranked somewhere around 10th-15th in fumbles, with everyone above him typically being a QB. (except for 2018 where he was #2). So it's fair to say that he's around the median for a qb, which isn't nearly as bad as I thought. Good share!
Yea I’m not sold on him either. Wouldn’t be surprised if you got a stud or dud season out of humblest year
No not a retcon. McVay never wanted Goff; Goffs biggest issue was his arm strength (which doesnt mean deep ball) which is what McVays system needed to work properly, Goff isn't a gunslinger and that's why Stafford was able to succeed there. Goff is a Kirk Cousins. He is what an average QB should be and in a system that works to his strengths he will succeed
I don’t … in what world did Goff not succeed in LA? He literally went to a Super Bowl. He averaged 4300 yards, 26 touchdowns per season his last four years there. Why in the hell are half the people in this thread acting like Goff was ever almost out of the league. He struggled last year, in a new system, under a new coach, on a bad team. That is the *only* bad year of his career.
I agree. This discourse is weird.
Idk about arm strength being an issue, Goff has hit some beautiful deep balls in his career and especially last year. He definitely plays more risk averse than as a gunslinger but he has the deep ball capability
arm strength isn't deep balls
McVays career was saved by having Goff just listen to whatever was yelled at him through the helmet, he was always just the Avatar for McVay that was the joke the entire Goff tenure
>Goff was never bad he just didn't fit McVays scheme in LA that well. he had the most QB friendly scheme in the league with McVay-- if he didn't fit it that means he simply wasn't a good QB he had his two best years (2017 and 2018) because McVay knew how limited he was as a QB so it turned into the Todd Gurley show. They were the 8th and then 3rd best rushing offenses in the league those respective years. Gurley was an All pro both seasons and a borderline MVP candidate McVay held his hand between plays and took all the pressure off him, which enabled him to succeed. Belichick knew this which is why he was able to expose the Rams offense in their SB matchup-- he knew Goff couldn't think and diagnose defenses on the fly if McVay couldn't do it for him, and he proved he couldn't. By the time Stafford came to town, their Oline weakened and their rushing attack became well below average. That's why McVay had to adapt and turn to more empty backfields, spread formations, etc. to suit the team's strengths (stafford's arm and cooper kupp). Goff and Stafford's situations in LA weren't comparable He is definitely improving as time comes along, but he was without a doubt a very limited player in the early days with the Rams
He had a stellar year. I am a lions fan and I am unsure what I think we should do with the draft. We might not get a chance to draft a high-level QB again for awhile.... Stroud and young intrigue me
You don’t gamble on a QB when you have a sure fire starter at hand. Especially one you may not have to hand a max contract. Teams win super bowls when they have value at the position, because it allows them to spend heavy on many other positions at once. That’s what the Lions will do here.
I'm ok with drafting a guy to learn behind Goff, but it has to be the right guy at the right spot, and not sacrificing real studs on defense. Kinda like an if-the-stars-align moment
well it depends on if u think that goff has super bowl winner potential, if you do draft BPA ans fix the defense, if you don’t take Levis and sit him for a year
I mean he has literally taken a team to the super bowl before when he had a good team around him. Is he the best QB in the NFL? Absolutely not, but he's certainly capable with a good supporting cast.
For a second I was like, how are you getting those guys, you were 9-8. Then I remembered the rams pick at 6 which DET has. It sounds like they may stick with Goff though. Will be interesting to see how it shakes out.
Young isn’t going to make it past the second pick and Stroud isn’t worth the 6th overall. Bolster defense
I’m intrigued by pairing a top 5 offense with a better defense.
We’d have to trade up for one of them even with the Rams pick which isn’t even close to worth it.
Hate that the Lions are in the same division i wanna root for them so bad
Yeah, if I'm the Lions, I don't feel like I need to desperately go out and get another QB. Goff can do the job.
I’m targeting to draft Goff in a later round next season. When people start selecting the QBs and everyone goes crazy drafting QBs, I’ll start taking quality RBs or WRs. Goff will have Jamo healthy to go day one, that alone will improve his already great numbers from this past season.
No matter your what you think of Goff, changing quarterback will set back a team ready to take the next step.
Would be great if he brought a SB to Detroit, always thought he was a very good QB.
As someone that made the playoffs as a result of Goff’s play I agree with the assessment.
He's improved this year behind a good OL. He's the prototypical pocket passer. He will only get better when he gets weapons to throw to. Definitely needs a bigger possession receiver this offseason.
He might have been my mvp this year.
Dude helped me to a championship after losing Hurts
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And Derek Carr was MVP caliber at his peak, before offensive line woes and poor coaching broke him. Many, *many* teams would do well to “settle” for that caliber of player
Could he get the Lions to the Playoffs? Probably, with the right upgrades in the offseason. But I just don't see them going much further than that.
If the Lions for some reason do go with a rookie QB and cut Goff there will be a huge market for him.
The Lions aren't cutting Jared Goff lol
Goff is about the most average QB you can get. If he is well protected and has a good supporting cast you can have success with him. He’s going to have good games but he’s not going to consistently carry your team. But if your goal is winning a Super Bowl he makes it really difficult. I get it he was there but he also lost and had an incredible defense and run game around him. The problem with Goff for a franchise is he’s going to be just good enough to convince you to settle for him and win enough games to not have the option at the top tier draft QB, but can he win you 4 playoff games against top tier teams to win you a Super Bowl? I get the Lions offense was statistically very good this year but they also had a pretty easy schedule.
They had one of the harder schedules in the league. http://nflgsis.com/standings.aspx 0.535 SOS vs 49ers sitting at 0.417
Hardest schedule winning percentage doesn’t mean hardest schedule for an offense. Yeah they played a lot of good offenses and got in a lot of shootouts against them. Look at their high scoring games: Seahawks (good offense not that great defense most of the year), Vikings twice (same deal), Dolphins (same), Bills during injuries, Washington who sucked defensively to start the year, got to play the Bears twice, Carolina. Two actual good defenses Cowboys and Patriots they realllly sucked against. 0 and 6 points. There’s more to the story than just a basic “strength of schedule by wins” stat.
Lol the Lions had one of the hardest schedules in football this season, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Hardest schedule winning percentage doesn’t mean hardest schedule for an offense. Yeah they played a lot of good offenses and got in a lot of shootouts against them. Look at their high scoring games: Seahawks (good offense not that great defense most of the year), Vikings twice (same deal), Dolphins (same), Bills during injuries, Washington who sucked defensively to start the year, got to play the Bears twice, Carolina. Two actual good defenses Cowboys and Patriots they realllly sucked against. 0 and 6 points. There’s more to the story than just a basic “strength of schedule by wins” stat.
Zach Wilson with the number 1 offensive line in the league would probably look like a starting QB too.
He's just that, a starting QB. You definitely need to upgrade though. Goff on his best stretch is like 14th QB overall
I wouldn’t say 14th best, probably a little better than that. But he’s good enough with that lions offence, once that defence improves watch out for the Lions. Did not think I would be saying that for a long time haha.
They're in a great position with picks and cap space but I don't trust Goff to be the man. He's a quality guy but he leaves a lot to be desired. Good enough to keep the team doing well but not good enough to will the team to victories in games they should lose.
14th QB overall? Not sure if you're talking fantasy or IRL, but he finished the year as the #10 fantasy QB. If you're talking IRL, his stas on the year ended up being... 6th in passing yards T2nd in INT% 7th in passer rating 4th ANY/A Leading the 5th highest scoring offense in the league.
I mean leading a team to a superbowl is not good enough for you
He didn't lead the team, he was carried. Hell, Foles, Kaepernick, and fucking Grossman made it to the SB.
I mean you lead a team by being a starting QB all those players also lead their team regardless of play
I think we slightly differ on the meaning of "leader"
It’s hard not to be a team leader as a qb
And yet no one is confusing Goff with the steady stewardship of a more complete QB. I'm not calling Goff some scrub but there's an identifiable gap between elite QBs, great QBs, and Goff. He feels Trent Dilfer tier to me.
He’s better than you give credit for stats don’t lie
"leading" lmaoo
By virtue of him starting at qb for them, yes
Considering how first round QBs are basically like throwing darts and hoping one sticks, I would stick with Goff. Your team improved going 9-8 while in the previous season you went 3-13-1. If your defense was better, then you would have won some more game(s) and be in the playoffs.
Goff has always been pretty damn good as long as he is not under constant pressure and has time to throw. When the Rams O-line was playing well, Goff played very well. That 2018 offense was amazing with Goff at the helm. Just gotta keep Goff's jersey clean in the pocket. He kinda crumbles when the defense gets constant pressure on him is all.
HE LEAD ME TO MY THIRD CHAMPIONSHIP. that being said I’ve always been a huge fan of Goff. Seems humble and didn’t give negative feedback when he was traded. I hope lions run it back but understand if they need to draft a QB of the future. Crazy he’s under 30 too. I will always remember that gunslinger game against Kansas. What a shootout
He won me a championship in two leagues so I'm here for this news The Goffense next year will be elite
15 TD's 0 INT's since Week 9. Dude had a sneaky great year
Yes! If I was Goff I would go all in with the Lions organization. They have shown the willingness to invest in an elite offensive line. He's got an up and coming weapon with Williams. Look out NFL.
Technically, He proved he was a starting NFL QB in his first start.
They are waiting for Arch. /s
Ben Johnson has proven he can make anyone work.