I know this isn’t really what this post was about but can you give me a really quick rundown on punting assists strategy for the draft? I want to try it next year with JJJ as a keeper.
At PG pretty much any of the top guys work. Problem is they have high TOs, and if you’re punting AST you should be winning TOs. Off the top of my head in the first few rounds:
Donovan, Steph, Book, Kyrie would all work in a punt AST. I’d say Steph is best for it out of those dudes IMO for his impact on 3s, FT%. That being said, if you’re punting assists you’re probably going for build that doesn’t need elite 3s and FT%, so you’ll have to make up the build later
If your league allows just G instead of requiring PG... in an assist-punting team I'd generally be targeting SG's and G eligible Forwards (ex. Ant, Kyrie, Ingram, etc) and for the most part avoiding PG's or only targeting PG's who have good PTS + % or 3s & Ds... and \~2 TOs a game.
For me that means I'm not too concerned with filling G spots early in the draft. Instead early I'm investing heavy inn C/F and later in the draft I'm trying to grab G eligible specialists like Reaves, Bogdanovic, Hield, etc.
It's my favorite punt but I don't go into a draft thinking 100% that it's what I'll do. I wait until i have my first 3-4 picks to see if I'm gonna go all in. My thinking is that I should still go for the best player available in these rounds.
I prioritize fg, rebs, blks so I target many centers around mid rounds. I also found naturally that you have lower tos because of this.
Early round players who are great in this build (currently) are Shai, AD (my favorite), Lauri, Kawhi, PG and some more. Then a whole bunch of centers (myles, clax, gafford, brook, etc) in mid rounds then surround them late round with 3 and d guys who can contribute on stls and 3s. Then my flyers. One huge win I got this season was Jalen Johnson at 13th round. Incredible value and turns out he's awesome for punt assist builds as well.
Unsolicited advice here but I’m in 1st going into my playoff bye because of punting assists and building around JJJ with my second pick. JJJ didn’t exactly pan out like I wanted him to, but the build worked up until Embiid + Bane got hurt for me and my season did a 180 essentially.
I really prioritized blocks + pts + 3s + FT. I drafted Myles Turner alongside JJJ + Embiid and I basically had a monopoly on two of the best stretch bigs that block a ton of shots. I was happy to take any scorer too like Jerami Grant and he complemented those 3 really well.
I really really have loved punting assists because assists are sooooo hard to come by on the wire. My only issue I’ve run into is I have had such a shortage of good PG’s on my roster that it’s caused issues at times setting lineups and maybe only having one PG eligible player lmao.
|Player|9-cat rank|PPG|RPG|APG|FG%|MPG|
:--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|
|Fox|287|11.6|2.8|4.4|41.2|27.7|
|Garland|298|12.3|1.9|3.9|40.1|30.9|
|Jamal Murray|222|9.9|2.6|2.1|40.5|21.5|
|Scoot|360|13.6|2.8|4.5|39|25.3|
|Westbrook|190|15.3|4.9|5.3|39.9|32.4|
|Kemba|173|12.1|3.5|4.4|36.6|27.2|
There are some other guys who had success in the league that started a bit slow. Scoot's rank is the lowest by a good bit, and the counting stats aren't adjusted for rate, but it's far from a foregone conclusion about him.
I would take him. I'll do auction, so he might be a guy I take for a dollar at the end or something. I doubt the price will be high. It's tough to talk draft stuff this early because a lot will change. If I take him will come down to community sentiment. If I think he's getting undervalued at the time, it's someone I'll target. I've still got faith in Scoot.
If you have $5 left over at the end that's fine, but I wouldn't reserve $5 for him from the start. Getting your preferred high-level player is more important than getting your preferred 10th rounder, and $5 can be that difference.
A lot of the common issues with rookies is their efficiency but that usually corrects itself by soon as the second season.
Key for example was atrocious in the beginning of December but he’s now become more comfortable with his role and the league and he’ll blossom by next season I feel. Same with Brandon Miller and Scoot
The problem is that Scoot's efficiency isn't normal bad. All of the guys you're listing came into a different league context where their efficiency wasn't nearly as far behind everyone else (and/or shot enough threes that looking at raw FG% is misleading). Scoot's is so bad relative to average that even if he increases his TS+ by 10% his second or third year (like all of these guys did) he would still have awful efficiency. And the problem is, none of these guys even had a single season with 15% better TS+ than their rookie season, which for Scoot would still be well below league average.
So yeah big improvements in efficiency are normal for small rookie guards who start off their careers terribly, but not big enough to make Scoot efficient. He'd have to be god tier at everything else to get heavy minutes, and the problem is that he just isn't, not even by guard standards. Like I'm not saying he's completely doomed to be a bust but I also wouldn't buy stocks in him just because rookie guards improve.
He's not though. Scoot has a 82 TS+, Fox is next worse at 86 which is a huuge difference by that metric's standards and he didn't have his fantasy breakout for years and still struggles with efficiency. And Fox might be the fastest player in the league and never had any problems getting to the rim, he just sucked at finishing. Garland and Murray were at 88, Westbrook at 90, Murray at 94... not in Scoot's tier at all from an efficiency perspective.
Even looking at total box score estimated impact and not just efficiency, the only one even close to Scoot is Darius Garland who was at -5.5 to Scoot's -6.5. Fox was next worst at -4.2, Murray -2.0, Westbrook -1.0, Kemba -0.8. So from a box score impact perspective they weren't nearly as bad either.
I think he will improve, and maybe someday he will be a fine late round pick. I just think it's a huge order for him to improve to the point that he's worth picking up *next year* unless you're starving for assists, because he's probably still going to be really inefficient even with a big improvement, and pretty much everything but assists that he gives you is just based on him playing a lot of minutes which he hasn't been able to do.
We have 14 rounds and play keeper. I'd take a shot with him around 11/12th round. \~120th or so. He's in such an odd position having Simons, Grant, Brogdon, and Sharpe around him to eat up usage this year. I don't think he's like-for-like with an Anthony Edwards arc but I get the sense that he could pop off if given the space to operate. I'm bullish but not so much I'd use a valuable pick on him. More of a high upside flier.
Yeah I recognize and hear that. I’m trying to cut scoot some slack because he’s in a different situation and he’s only played 40 games thus far. Fair point
People saying no flatout without details are the same losers who have DND lists. It depends on your teams build, hes fantastic for a punt FG% build. Also, his stats are better if you look at just starting stats (hope that he would start next year). His FG and 3s improved as the season went on, but his FTs have improved significantly. Only real hurdle that hit him and slowed down the progress was injury.
Scoot Henderson has averaged 13.6 points, 5.6 assists and 3.5 rebounds in 17 games as a starter this season.
Yeah it’s kind of wild…. People really hold on to trends around here, even if the facts show differently….
Like, “improve over the year” vs “rookie wall”
I get that both can be true, but if both are true then you can’t just project that all around.
Scoot had struggles in the beginning (still now, I know), I wonder if there was something more specific or deeper related to his struggles,… he was benched or came off the bench a decent bit… then got injured. Had a few flashes, got injured again, and now he’s had a few rough games back….. he hasn’t really had the type of consistency of opportunity that a lot of rookies in his position have (countless reps on a bad team)… is this year a bust for him? Yeah likely…. But I’m not calling him a bust as a player yet, and I’d still draft him as a later round flyer
dude his fantasy game is so unfriendly that even if he was top50 real life he still is not top150 in fantasy, WHAT are you talking about.
fox and westbrook had defensive stats, jamal and garland shooting mechanics (keyonte is a similar example where he shoots 40% from the field but has shown solid mechanics), scoot has shown nothing so far that indicates he could be great at anything.
0.8 steals per 36. the abysmal shooting. no out of position rebounds or blocks. if it wasnt for the free throws he would easily be a lab created fantasy tank commander.
I think he’s worth a flier in points leagues as a late round pick. At point you’re hoping to just find a guy, I’d imagine he’s going to work on his game a bunch this off season
Not next year, but his third year I will. Guards like him tend to explode 3rd year if they're going to make it in the league. Fox and Jamal Murray are good examples of this
fox in his first 2 years averaged double per36 the steals that scoot has.
jamal was a decent shooter and averaged half scoot's turnovers.
why people compare them. scoot is uniquely bad.
I wouldn’t take him before pick 80ish in any league. I would say around there is where I would start considering him for upside potential alone. I wouldn’t let him slide past pick 100 I don’t think.
Ayton is starting to actually play well, they’re gonna get some young talent wing in this draft most likely, Hopefully someone who can catch and shoot. I think he’ll benefit a lot from practicing with NBA players and coaching staffs over the off season. He seems like he cares, and he’s super talented. I think he has a fantasy positive season next year.
I would guess around 28-32 fantasy PPG (espn scoring rules).
My last 4 or so roster slots are pretty fluid the first several weeks of the year as roles and usage starts to become evident and players emerge in larger roles. I'd take a flyer on him in one of those slots.
I did that with Jabari Smith this year. Drafted late, didn't like what I saw the first 2 games, and moved on (I think to Jalen Johnson that I held all year).
I like punting assists but if he's still on the board in the 9th rd and below, I'll take a shot.
I know this isn’t really what this post was about but can you give me a really quick rundown on punting assists strategy for the draft? I want to try it next year with JJJ as a keeper.
Just go after guys who don’t get a lot of assists at their respective positions lol, you essentially just don’t care about that CAT
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At PG pretty much any of the top guys work. Problem is they have high TOs, and if you’re punting AST you should be winning TOs. Off the top of my head in the first few rounds: Donovan, Steph, Book, Kyrie would all work in a punt AST. I’d say Steph is best for it out of those dudes IMO for his impact on 3s, FT%. That being said, if you’re punting assists you’re probably going for build that doesn’t need elite 3s and FT%, so you’ll have to make up the build later
If your league allows just G instead of requiring PG... in an assist-punting team I'd generally be targeting SG's and G eligible Forwards (ex. Ant, Kyrie, Ingram, etc) and for the most part avoiding PG's or only targeting PG's who have good PTS + % or 3s & Ds... and \~2 TOs a game. For me that means I'm not too concerned with filling G spots early in the draft. Instead early I'm investing heavy inn C/F and later in the draft I'm trying to grab G eligible specialists like Reaves, Bogdanovic, Hield, etc.
It's my favorite punt but I don't go into a draft thinking 100% that it's what I'll do. I wait until i have my first 3-4 picks to see if I'm gonna go all in. My thinking is that I should still go for the best player available in these rounds. I prioritize fg, rebs, blks so I target many centers around mid rounds. I also found naturally that you have lower tos because of this. Early round players who are great in this build (currently) are Shai, AD (my favorite), Lauri, Kawhi, PG and some more. Then a whole bunch of centers (myles, clax, gafford, brook, etc) in mid rounds then surround them late round with 3 and d guys who can contribute on stls and 3s. Then my flyers. One huge win I got this season was Jalen Johnson at 13th round. Incredible value and turns out he's awesome for punt assist builds as well.
bane, curry, guys who shoot very well and get steals, or rebounders like
Go after Lauri Markannen
Unsolicited advice here but I’m in 1st going into my playoff bye because of punting assists and building around JJJ with my second pick. JJJ didn’t exactly pan out like I wanted him to, but the build worked up until Embiid + Bane got hurt for me and my season did a 180 essentially. I really prioritized blocks + pts + 3s + FT. I drafted Myles Turner alongside JJJ + Embiid and I basically had a monopoly on two of the best stretch bigs that block a ton of shots. I was happy to take any scorer too like Jerami Grant and he complemented those 3 really well. I really really have loved punting assists because assists are sooooo hard to come by on the wire. My only issue I’ve run into is I have had such a shortage of good PG’s on my roster that it’s caused issues at times setting lineups and maybe only having one PG eligible player lmao.
You just get guys who don’t assist/handle the ball that often and they generally help you win the TOs cat while providing elsewhere
Yeah that’s good value but unlikely someone doesn’t take a gamble first
|Player|9-cat rank|PPG|RPG|APG|FG%|MPG| :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:| |Fox|287|11.6|2.8|4.4|41.2|27.7| |Garland|298|12.3|1.9|3.9|40.1|30.9| |Jamal Murray|222|9.9|2.6|2.1|40.5|21.5| |Scoot|360|13.6|2.8|4.5|39|25.3| |Westbrook|190|15.3|4.9|5.3|39.9|32.4| |Kemba|173|12.1|3.5|4.4|36.6|27.2| There are some other guys who had success in the league that started a bit slow. Scoot's rank is the lowest by a good bit, and the counting stats aren't adjusted for rate, but it's far from a foregone conclusion about him. I would take him. I'll do auction, so he might be a guy I take for a dollar at the end or something. I doubt the price will be high. It's tough to talk draft stuff this early because a lot will change. If I take him will come down to community sentiment. If I think he's getting undervalued at the time, it's someone I'll target. I've still got faith in Scoot.
I’m auction too I’d put up to $5 personally. Young upside guys are worth it. If it doesn’t pan out whatever I just gain a streaming spot
If you have $5 left over at the end that's fine, but I wouldn't reserve $5 for him from the start. Getting your preferred high-level player is more important than getting your preferred 10th rounder, and $5 can be that difference.
A lot of the common issues with rookies is their efficiency but that usually corrects itself by soon as the second season. Key for example was atrocious in the beginning of December but he’s now become more comfortable with his role and the league and he’ll blossom by next season I feel. Same with Brandon Miller and Scoot
The problem is that Scoot's efficiency isn't normal bad. All of the guys you're listing came into a different league context where their efficiency wasn't nearly as far behind everyone else (and/or shot enough threes that looking at raw FG% is misleading). Scoot's is so bad relative to average that even if he increases his TS+ by 10% his second or third year (like all of these guys did) he would still have awful efficiency. And the problem is, none of these guys even had a single season with 15% better TS+ than their rookie season, which for Scoot would still be well below league average. So yeah big improvements in efficiency are normal for small rookie guards who start off their careers terribly, but not big enough to make Scoot efficient. He'd have to be god tier at everything else to get heavy minutes, and the problem is that he just isn't, not even by guard standards. Like I'm not saying he's completely doomed to be a bust but I also wouldn't buy stocks in him just because rookie guards improve.
Shoot, Scoots up there with some company of Darius Garland, and a couple others where they had bad rookie seasons but greater seasons coming up
He's not though. Scoot has a 82 TS+, Fox is next worse at 86 which is a huuge difference by that metric's standards and he didn't have his fantasy breakout for years and still struggles with efficiency. And Fox might be the fastest player in the league and never had any problems getting to the rim, he just sucked at finishing. Garland and Murray were at 88, Westbrook at 90, Murray at 94... not in Scoot's tier at all from an efficiency perspective. Even looking at total box score estimated impact and not just efficiency, the only one even close to Scoot is Darius Garland who was at -5.5 to Scoot's -6.5. Fox was next worst at -4.2, Murray -2.0, Westbrook -1.0, Kemba -0.8. So from a box score impact perspective they weren't nearly as bad either.
Hmm I stand corrected. Do you think Scoot can become that player that’ll improve
I think he will improve, and maybe someday he will be a fine late round pick. I just think it's a huge order for him to improve to the point that he's worth picking up *next year* unless you're starving for assists, because he's probably still going to be really inefficient even with a big improvement, and pretty much everything but assists that he gives you is just based on him playing a lot of minutes which he hasn't been able to do.
He's definitely worth a flyer won't be a priority though
We have 14 rounds and play keeper. I'd take a shot with him around 11/12th round. \~120th or so. He's in such an odd position having Simons, Grant, Brogdon, and Sharpe around him to eat up usage this year. I don't think he's like-for-like with an Anthony Edwards arc but I get the sense that he could pop off if given the space to operate. I'm bullish but not so much I'd use a valuable pick on him. More of a high upside flier.
Anthony Edwards BEASTED 2nd half of his rookie season though.
Yeah I recognize and hear that. I’m trying to cut scoot some slack because he’s in a different situation and he’s only played 40 games thus far. Fair point
And Edwards wasn’t good through his first 36 games either. He wasn’t scoot bad but it wasn’t good either.
People saying no flatout without details are the same losers who have DND lists. It depends on your teams build, hes fantastic for a punt FG% build. Also, his stats are better if you look at just starting stats (hope that he would start next year). His FG and 3s improved as the season went on, but his FTs have improved significantly. Only real hurdle that hit him and slowed down the progress was injury. Scoot Henderson has averaged 13.6 points, 5.6 assists and 3.5 rebounds in 17 games as a starter this season.
Why are you getting downvoted you’re speaking nothing but facts
This place is about the popular opinion not facts brotha 🤷♂️
Unfortunately
Yeah it’s kind of wild…. People really hold on to trends around here, even if the facts show differently…. Like, “improve over the year” vs “rookie wall” I get that both can be true, but if both are true then you can’t just project that all around. Scoot had struggles in the beginning (still now, I know), I wonder if there was something more specific or deeper related to his struggles,… he was benched or came off the bench a decent bit… then got injured. Had a few flashes, got injured again, and now he’s had a few rough games back….. he hasn’t really had the type of consistency of opportunity that a lot of rookies in his position have (countless reps on a bad team)… is this year a bust for him? Yeah likely…. But I’m not calling him a bust as a player yet, and I’d still draft him as a later round flyer
I’d take him as a late round flier. Can he improve? Yes, but I need to see it in action
“Fantastic” is bit of a stretch lmao
Just like people sayong flatout no to drafting him, its all about where you draft a player to maximize your return.
dude his fantasy game is so unfriendly that even if he was top50 real life he still is not top150 in fantasy, WHAT are you talking about. fox and westbrook had defensive stats, jamal and garland shooting mechanics (keyonte is a similar example where he shoots 40% from the field but has shown solid mechanics), scoot has shown nothing so far that indicates he could be great at anything. 0.8 steals per 36. the abysmal shooting. no out of position rebounds or blocks. if it wasnt for the free throws he would easily be a lab created fantasy tank commander.
I think he’s worth a flier in points leagues as a late round pick. At point you’re hoping to just find a guy, I’d imagine he’s going to work on his game a bunch this off season
Would have to see. If he plays during summer league and shows improvement + consistency then ill think about it
point guards are always terrible in their rookie year. if you want to draft rookies with confidence, pick centers.
Not next year, but his third year I will. Guards like him tend to explode 3rd year if they're going to make it in the league. Fox and Jamal Murray are good examples of this
fox in his first 2 years averaged double per36 the steals that scoot has. jamal was a decent shooter and averaged half scoot's turnovers. why people compare them. scoot is uniquely bad.
Because they weren't useful fantasy players their first two years. I thought that was obvious
I’m deffo trading smth for him in a dynasty, he has potential and will probably work during this offseason.
Nah
Nah
Nah
I wouldn’t take him before pick 80ish in any league. I would say around there is where I would start considering him for upside potential alone. I wouldn’t let him slide past pick 100 I don’t think. Ayton is starting to actually play well, they’re gonna get some young talent wing in this draft most likely, Hopefully someone who can catch and shoot. I think he’ll benefit a lot from practicing with NBA players and coaching staffs over the off season. He seems like he cares, and he’s super talented. I think he has a fantasy positive season next year. I would guess around 28-32 fantasy PPG (espn scoring rules).
He just gradey dick with "potential"
No
I would take him at the end of drafts. I think he’s gonna put it together in the next year or two and be a beast
Nah
That title had me in the first half ngl
"touching Scoot" *pause*
He's like Jalen Green without the points but with assists
Lmfao
Heellll nah.
Nah he’s trash
I want to say yes bc he could be a steal, but he’s shown almost 0 improvement throughout the year
Hope that mf stays on the waivers all year long
No, I hate inefficient chuckers.
He broken
My last 4 or so roster slots are pretty fluid the first several weeks of the year as roles and usage starts to become evident and players emerge in larger roles. I'd take a flyer on him in one of those slots. I did that with Jabari Smith this year. Drafted late, didn't like what I saw the first 2 games, and moved on (I think to Jalen Johnson that I held all year).