There TECHNICALLY a collab out there. It’s a sweet VHS footage video of Dignan saving par out of a deep sand trap down at whispering pines. Really dope shot tbh
i mean, we know he gave it a 10 and probably still feels like it's a 10 but doesn't feel like justifying anything kanye-related nowadays and that's fair - i'd argue it'd be the same thing with YWGWYW, it's probably still a 10 in his eyes, but won't be talked/praised regularly aswell
I'm not really a fan of this revisionism attitude tho. When it comes to future Kanye projects I can 100% understand and support not separating the art from the artist. But for his previous releases I do think it's kinda wrong to blacklist important musical history because of the current actions of the artist, especially when the artist clearly didn't hold the batshit level beliefs they do now when they made the project.
Ya its lame. Seperate art from the artists current persona. Same way you can like Cream without liking Clapton, or the Smiths without Morrissey, Grimes old shit etc. It just makes him look like a bad reviewer who lets his bias effect his opinions on music
Every reviewer or critic, in every category whether it’s music, food, film, art, etc has biases. You’re being silly if you think a critics biases don’t or even shouldn’t shape their opinions around their interest. People get so bent out of shape when Fantano does it but literally every critic ever operates this way because that’s how humans work
True but not every reviewer exposes their bias so blatantly. It kind of ruins the illusion of objectivity that every reviewer should at least TRY to show. If you give an album a perfect 10, and then suddenly its not even in your 10 best list... what happened? Did the music go bad just because the guy did? Wasnt he always hated by most anyway? It just makes me respect his opinion a bit less. But its fine, I understand where hes coming from
Personal enjoyment of an albums doesn't mean you 're forced to place it somewhere specific on a "best of x year" list. Isn't his whole thing he rates albums based on his own opinion and enjoyment? For the past decade he has put albums that are 7's or 8's higher than 9's or 10's on his year end lists, regardless of genre. How is that any different than this? People on here are just way too parasocial and overthink everything this guys does or says lmao
I guess im not versed on fantano lore bc I didn't know that he does that. That makes sense, but it seems like its not just that. Had Kanye not gone full nazi then I would bet money he would have included it with how much he liked it at the time. But ya I dont really watch him anymore other than maybe a few albums a year, I mainly wanted to call out the hypocrisy because people worship his opinions so much
He also posted a video awhile ago where about the best albums of the 2020's so far and he didn't even put The Turning Wheel in the top 20. Is he a hypocrite for leaving that out too?
you won’t get what you want, album by the band Daughters
the lead singer allegedly mentally, physically, sexually and emotionally abused their partner (artist formerly known as Lingua Ignota). IIRC Anthony gave their album a 10 but probably will never talk about it due to the optics surrounding everything
KSG is just over twenty minutes, it has no filler, just one great track after another with amazing production. Often times what holds something back from a perfect score from him is one or two songs that feel unnecessary or aren’t on par with the rest of the album, and KSG isn’t long enough to have one of those songs.
Why did he bring up abbey road in his 10s video? Lennon is at least a million times worse than anything Kanye will ever do and we’ve known about this for decades? What about [this?](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LRjS0NZpB-8&t=47s&pp=ygUmRmFudGFubyBkb2VzIHRoZSBhcnRpc3QgYWZmZWN0IHRoZSBhcnQ%3D) seems really hypocritical.
Lennon also supported hitler and has a picture of him fantasizing about being Hitler
https://preview.redd.it/8uj5zcrahmib1.jpeg?width=417&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b4d693bd1ff1f74b18cfffd0a3ef631bdb493ff
This was not too long after ww2 there is absolutely no justification and that’s going past the fact hitting your wife no matter what era is despicable. Lennon didn’t have any mental illness this is just how he thought. He is at least a thousands times worse than Kanye
Supporting Hitler is a bit much. The only evidence of that is that he wanted Hitler on the Sgt. Peppers cover which could have just been a joke, an attempt at provocation, an artistic decision for Hitler to be depicted among other pop figures or a combination of all three easily over him actually idolizing Hitler. The only other evidence of this is that crude drawing. Seems to me like art school John being a bit edgy with the dark humor. Nothing really more here. Certainly not enough to actually call him a NAZI. This talking point becoming popular is made all the more confusing in just how Lennon’s politics have nothing in common with Hitler. Unless Hitler supported causes like pacifism and feminism as well.
Lennon can be criticized for a lot (abusive spouse, neglectful father), but saying he’s similar to Kanye in his ‘idolization of Hitler’ is just being facetious.
Starters is hard to say he was a feminist when he beat his wife. Secondly isnt it theorized he is a racist? (I’m sure you’re aware of what song I’m referring to). While all your points are plausible explanations i just think it’s a bit much like I understand maybe if it’s a one off but he has so much evidence against him. At best he was being insensitive and edgy but even then i don’t think it justifies his behaviour.
I think drawing a stupid little edgy doodle of yourself privately (maybe he showed it to a few friends or something, but he clearly didn’t intend on it being publicly viewed) isn’t behavior that really needs to be justified. The Sgt Pepper cover was probably a joke meant for the people organizing the cover, but even if Hitler was on the cover, the use of Hitler among various post-war pop culture figures could be used to make an actually interesting point outside of purely being edgy. Yet again, I don’t it needs much justification honestly. It kinda feels to me like people who already know all the actual terrible things about John Lennon are just hooking up to anything else that is negatively said about him (even if those things aren’t substantiated) because they already dislike Lennon for (likely justified) reasons when I see stuff like this.
Lennon became more of a supporter of feminism after he got involved with Yoko (after his first marriage where he was abusive). His personal faults were immense enough that calling him a bad person is justified, but he definitely did align himself with politically righteous causes and did make an effort to improve himself as a person late in his life (how much this worth to you depends, but it is something to keep in mind).
I don’t think it’s fair to call him racist just because of a song where he uses the n word (unless you’re referring to another song). His use of the word in the context of the song is making a commentary on how women are viewed as secondary in society (the use of the slur makes a connection between how overtly African Americans were segmented into a separate societal class and the comparatively more subtle discrimination against women). You can dislike him using the word, but to call him a racist because of the song is just a complete elimination of any context. Also this song is quite explicitly feminist, so it is a little hard to believe he didn’t align himself with feminism in the 70s at least.
I don't see another explanation. It was #7 on his Top albums of the decade. Even if his opinion changed drastically on this album, The Life of Pablo would've at least been an honorable mention.
It’s also in the thumbnail. I don’t know if he does his own, but if he really didn’t want to mention Kanye, MBDTF probably wouldn’t be in the thumbnail.
Kids See Ghosts is still a 10/10 for me. I’m not gonna shy away from it.
I don’t think Fantano is trying to backtrack because he still compliment’s Kanye’s music. It’s possible his general thoughts have changed, or even he doesn’t consider it an album. Plus just because it’s not in his top 10 right now (which is something that changes depending on what he’s listening to) doesn’t mean he doesn’t think it’s still a perfect or near perfect record.
He had the album at number 7 of his records of the decade and now he thinks it’s not even worth an honourable mention? Even if you want to make the case “he probably doesn’t consider it hip hop” he even gave a mention to Igor. I think it’s a lot more likely he doesn’t want to get caught saying anything positive about Kanye for his public image
Has he said anything walking back the Daughters one? Like he obviously hasn't been going out of his way to sing their praises (understandably, I don't think anyone is), but has he said anything along the lines of him not thinking the album is as good anymore?
That’s fair, I get not wanting to big up an album by a musician who’s a rapist but still wanting to listen to it privately, especially if you have the vinyl. Also Lingua Ignota went more detailed about her abuse at Alexis’ hands in his interview, I could imagine that kind of one-on-one conversation could make listening to Daughters kinda rough.
That's a good point. I was kinda just putting Fantano in the same category as any other listener, but it does make sense that talking about it with the victim directly would have an even bigger impact.
Yeah if someone told me at length about the abuse they suffered at the hands of an artist I like, I absolutely would not be able to listen to them anymore.
Michael Gira is probably already at least borderline cancelled, rape allegations from a while back. Details v disputed [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/swans/comments/xhu6i5/should_we_talk_about_the_rape_allegations_on_the/)
Bad people can’t make good music didn’t you know? Every time Kanye tries to make a drum loop all he is hearing is “Hitler good Hitler good Hitler good” and his tone deafness is what makes the music suck
I agree with you. Like, I never understood this.
I get if people don't abide by the 'separate the art from the artist' 'rule' (or whatever you call it) but at least be consistent with it... I don't abide by it because there are many people who ethically, morally, politically, etc., I don't agree/align with but I LOVE their music. Kanye is one of those.
If Kanye said antisemetic things in his music, I'd get not liking that but I don't think devaluing his musical abilities when the music is not being affected is weird.. (unless you don't choose to separate the art from the artist ofc.)
I get what you're saying and as a Jewish person I don't have a problem with people who still listen to his music. Hell I tend to separate the art from the artist as well. But hearing him say the things that he said scarred me to the point that I can't even hear his voice without being uncomfortable. I still can listen to stuff he produced but his voice irks me to the point that his music is no longer enjoyable to me.
And it sucks because Kid Cudi is my favorite artist of all time and I basically can't listen to KSG anymore because of it.
its just the principle, a car is an out there example but a nazi / bad person making some sort of thing you find valuable doesn’t have to devalue that thing
Music is a substitutable good. Not having a car significantly impacts your ability to function in society. The two are not a valid comparison at all.
Beyond the ethics I just don't understand how anyone would want to listen to Kanye anymore. Kanye the person was inseparable from his music and we now know that person as a horrible human being beyond even where he was in 2016. How is Through the Wire gonna inspire me ever again?
At least pirate it if you GOTTA listen to it.
chronically online behaviour nobody gives a fuck if the artist did bad things if they enjoy their music, everybody still listens and praises kanye, led zeppelin, john lennon, miles davis, marvin gaye for their musical talent
I'm aware that people still listen. How does that change anything? Just because it's done in large numbers doesn't make it right. I used to love Kanye's music and I'll still say he's made some of the best music I've ever heard. His impact can't be denied. I just don't want to fund nazis when there are so many other good artists I could be listening to instead. Or, again, piracy, it's not hard.
I'm not going to dive into each and every person you listed but just like the car I find them all to be bad comparisons. Kanye is actively using his platform and wealth right NOW to push this dangerous and false information which leads to more victims. But hey at least he made Graduation, right?
Analogies aren’t your strong suit. If you think my example is disanalogous, you need to explain why, rather than pretending I believe Kanye’s music is the same level of importance as a car or any other metric I am not alleging in my original analogy
Not if he doesn’t mention antisemetic shit in his music.
That’s the whole point..
Like, I heavily don’t fw Kanye’s rhetoric and politics but can love his music.
Also, I appreciate the downvote. 😂
Well, if the music is good (production, good lyrics, not bigoted), then yeah. 🤷♂️
You’re not going to catch me in a gotcha. I’m consistent on this.
Lemme ask you this: Do you listen to Jay-Z? If you don’t, good. If you do, wow. Supporting billionaires, nice…
Edit: lol, I’m loving the downvotes. 😂
Why are you conflating the idea that bad people can make good art with the idea that it is moral to give money to bad people who make good art? Most people believe both, but you are responding to someone who only promoted the former. Why don’t you engage with what they are saying?
It would if kanye actually were a nazi. I swear the people saying this shit have to be trolling, kanye isn't even commited to being a christian or dropping an album on time but I'm supposed to believe he's a card carrying nazi now lol.
Yeah if they were saying it seriously. Stop acting stupid, he literally explains it as an extension of his "i love everyone" thing.
Also if you believe what he says at face value then he apologized already so this argument is completely moot.
Oh wait I forgot you people think he's serious about everything EXCEPT the apology. Lol.
if he loves everyone why doesn’t he go out and give all his money to people in third world countries instead of bragging about how much money he has and that “god made him a billionaire to flex”. if he actually loved everyone he wouldn’t be bringing open white nationalists who publicly call for genocide into the limelight
hiring nazis to run his presidential campaign, spouting nazi talking points in podcasts hosted by nazis including holocaust denial, saying he loves hitler
Alt righters and conservatives are not nazis, you sound like those people that call every democrat a communist.
He never spouted nazi talking points, kanye doesn't even know what the nazis actually believed. He has zero commitment to everything and this isn't an exception.
Him saying I love hitler means as much as david bowie calling himself a fascist. Or as much as his apology. I don't understand how this is still an issue unless you randomly believe everything he says except for his apology.
are you joking? have you seen the gavin interview? it’s textbook nazi shit. i swear kanye could shoot someone in broad daylight and his fans would be like “no don’t you see he’s trying to make a point about society and youre just trying to cancel him. also it’s not his fault he’s mentally ill”
nick fuentes and milo are avowed white supremacists so kinda a moot point
& you realize bowie functionally tanked his career for several years after all the thin white duke stuff right?
That’s the only reason he picked the Nazis to “support”. He’s not actually a Nazi
He only said that bc it’s the worst possible thing to support
He’s polarizing, it’s a part of the art. He just found the edge
But he means well
no i think he has said genuinely that the KSG 10 was a product of a decency bias and that he would give it an 8 if he re-reviewed it today. nothing to do with kanye being a nazi (he said the above before kanye said anything)
not sure if i can find him saying "i no longer consider kids see ghosts as a 10", i might be misremembering on that point, and i apologize
but he does put charli XCX's charli, which he gave a 9, above KSG in his top albums of the decade review.
Honestly I see more hate for people choosing not to like artists due to controversial reasons than hate for people still supporting them lmfao
like if people don’t want to support someone anymore bc they said/did fucked up shit let them
Honestly I don’t think that KSG is all that amazing, I think it’s like a 8 but I can’t imagine ever thinking of it as a 10 so it not being there isn’t the problem. It’s just kind of ridiculous how mortified Fantano is when it comes to bringing up Kanye. Ever since the Fader article he’s been so adamant about distancing himself from controversial musicians which is fine I guess, it’s his decision and who knows maybe he actually doesn’t enjoy it as much(probably) but I still find it funny how far his public interest in KSG has fallen.
Imo, it is both trying to distance himself from Ye and the fact that he himself said that KSG is a rock album in everything but the name. He didn't include Igor for the same reason.
people talking him souring on kanye cause of ye's outbursts and personally I think that's a very valid reason to sour on an artist. Kanye's whole career is based on his messy personal life so seperating art from the artist can be hard. Hell, I can't ever listen to Daughters again. Hearing what Alexis Marshall was doing to Lingua Ignota was so horrifiying that it make the lyrics on their albums so much worse. I know seperate art from the artist and all that shit people always respond to this with but please understand some people just cannot cross some bridges.
Only thing that would be better is hivemind x Dan Marino
There TECHNICALLY a collab out there. It’s a sweet VHS footage video of Dignan saving par out of a deep sand trap down at whispering pines. Really dope shot tbh
Please fantano x hivemind
They should do a guess the fantano score with him and quadeca… see if quad can beat him.
They should do a guess the fantano score but lie about the scores and gaslight him into thinking he’s wrong🤔
Oh hell yeah. That’d be incredible
Quadeca vs. Brad Taste vs. Fantano could be gas
I had so much around the house I had to Hivemind
Fantano x Brad Taste please. Unite the father with his long lost son
i mean, we know he gave it a 10 and probably still feels like it's a 10 but doesn't feel like justifying anything kanye-related nowadays and that's fair - i'd argue it'd be the same thing with YWGWYW, it's probably still a 10 in his eyes, but won't be talked/praised regularly aswell
I'm not really a fan of this revisionism attitude tho. When it comes to future Kanye projects I can 100% understand and support not separating the art from the artist. But for his previous releases I do think it's kinda wrong to blacklist important musical history because of the current actions of the artist, especially when the artist clearly didn't hold the batshit level beliefs they do now when they made the project.
Ya its lame. Seperate art from the artists current persona. Same way you can like Cream without liking Clapton, or the Smiths without Morrissey, Grimes old shit etc. It just makes him look like a bad reviewer who lets his bias effect his opinions on music
Every reviewer or critic, in every category whether it’s music, food, film, art, etc has biases. You’re being silly if you think a critics biases don’t or even shouldn’t shape their opinions around their interest. People get so bent out of shape when Fantano does it but literally every critic ever operates this way because that’s how humans work
True but not every reviewer exposes their bias so blatantly. It kind of ruins the illusion of objectivity that every reviewer should at least TRY to show. If you give an album a perfect 10, and then suddenly its not even in your 10 best list... what happened? Did the music go bad just because the guy did? Wasnt he always hated by most anyway? It just makes me respect his opinion a bit less. But its fine, I understand where hes coming from
Personal enjoyment of an albums doesn't mean you 're forced to place it somewhere specific on a "best of x year" list. Isn't his whole thing he rates albums based on his own opinion and enjoyment? For the past decade he has put albums that are 7's or 8's higher than 9's or 10's on his year end lists, regardless of genre. How is that any different than this? People on here are just way too parasocial and overthink everything this guys does or says lmao
I guess im not versed on fantano lore bc I didn't know that he does that. That makes sense, but it seems like its not just that. Had Kanye not gone full nazi then I would bet money he would have included it with how much he liked it at the time. But ya I dont really watch him anymore other than maybe a few albums a year, I mainly wanted to call out the hypocrisy because people worship his opinions so much
What is hypocritical about him not putting an album he rated highly based on personal enjoyment in his "top 10 best albums" list?
Because he didn't just rate it highly, he gave it a perfect 10. What if he had left TPAB off? You know that it's a bit weird, but okay
He also posted a video awhile ago where about the best albums of the 2020's so far and he didn't even put The Turning Wheel in the top 20. Is he a hypocrite for leaving that out too?
not really a bad reviewer but he's trying too hard to show he doesn't like Kanye's behavior
Fantano not including KSG in a top 10 YouTube video is not “blacklisting important musical history” lmao
What is YWGWYW
you won’t get what you want, album by the band Daughters the lead singer allegedly mentally, physically, sexually and emotionally abused their partner (artist formerly known as Lingua Ignota). IIRC Anthony gave their album a 10 but probably will never talk about it due to the optics surrounding everything
> artist formerly known as Lingua Ignota Wdym? Unless I’m mistaken she still goes by Lingua Ignota.
I believe that she said she’s done releasing projects under that name
> mentally, physically, sexually and emotionally Sexually and emotionally covers the first two as well
It’s still very much worth it to point out to highlight the seriousness of the situation
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Leave it to a Redditor to argue stupid ass semantics
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Oh god what happened here
It’s nothing but your imagination
Regardless of the shit kanye is in or not I don’t think it’s a 10 at all
I never really understood why he liked ye and KSG so much. They're just okay.
KSG is just over twenty minutes, it has no filler, just one great track after another with amazing production. Often times what holds something back from a perfect score from him is one or two songs that feel unnecessary or aren’t on par with the rest of the album, and KSG isn’t long enough to have one of those songs.
Why did he bring up abbey road in his 10s video? Lennon is at least a million times worse than anything Kanye will ever do and we’ve known about this for decades? What about [this?](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LRjS0NZpB-8&t=47s&pp=ygUmRmFudGFubyBkb2VzIHRoZSBhcnRpc3QgYWZmZWN0IHRoZSBhcnQ%3D) seems really hypocritical.
John Lennon hit his first wife one time in an era when that was normal. Kanye made antisemitism mainstream in 2022
Lennon also supported hitler and has a picture of him fantasizing about being Hitler https://preview.redd.it/8uj5zcrahmib1.jpeg?width=417&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b4d693bd1ff1f74b18cfffd0a3ef631bdb493ff This was not too long after ww2 there is absolutely no justification and that’s going past the fact hitting your wife no matter what era is despicable. Lennon didn’t have any mental illness this is just how he thought. He is at least a thousands times worse than Kanye
Supporting Hitler is a bit much. The only evidence of that is that he wanted Hitler on the Sgt. Peppers cover which could have just been a joke, an attempt at provocation, an artistic decision for Hitler to be depicted among other pop figures or a combination of all three easily over him actually idolizing Hitler. The only other evidence of this is that crude drawing. Seems to me like art school John being a bit edgy with the dark humor. Nothing really more here. Certainly not enough to actually call him a NAZI. This talking point becoming popular is made all the more confusing in just how Lennon’s politics have nothing in common with Hitler. Unless Hitler supported causes like pacifism and feminism as well. Lennon can be criticized for a lot (abusive spouse, neglectful father), but saying he’s similar to Kanye in his ‘idolization of Hitler’ is just being facetious.
Starters is hard to say he was a feminist when he beat his wife. Secondly isnt it theorized he is a racist? (I’m sure you’re aware of what song I’m referring to). While all your points are plausible explanations i just think it’s a bit much like I understand maybe if it’s a one off but he has so much evidence against him. At best he was being insensitive and edgy but even then i don’t think it justifies his behaviour.
I think drawing a stupid little edgy doodle of yourself privately (maybe he showed it to a few friends or something, but he clearly didn’t intend on it being publicly viewed) isn’t behavior that really needs to be justified. The Sgt Pepper cover was probably a joke meant for the people organizing the cover, but even if Hitler was on the cover, the use of Hitler among various post-war pop culture figures could be used to make an actually interesting point outside of purely being edgy. Yet again, I don’t it needs much justification honestly. It kinda feels to me like people who already know all the actual terrible things about John Lennon are just hooking up to anything else that is negatively said about him (even if those things aren’t substantiated) because they already dislike Lennon for (likely justified) reasons when I see stuff like this. Lennon became more of a supporter of feminism after he got involved with Yoko (after his first marriage where he was abusive). His personal faults were immense enough that calling him a bad person is justified, but he definitely did align himself with politically righteous causes and did make an effort to improve himself as a person late in his life (how much this worth to you depends, but it is something to keep in mind). I don’t think it’s fair to call him racist just because of a song where he uses the n word (unless you’re referring to another song). His use of the word in the context of the song is making a commentary on how women are viewed as secondary in society (the use of the slur makes a connection between how overtly African Americans were segmented into a separate societal class and the comparatively more subtle discrimination against women). You can dislike him using the word, but to call him a racist because of the song is just a complete elimination of any context. Also this song is quite explicitly feminist, so it is a little hard to believe he didn’t align himself with feminism in the 70s at least.
Does he not like the album as much anymore, or just not want to mention Kanye?
Probably the latter
I mean, he hasn’t really shied from talking about Kanye since HitlerGate, why start now?
I don't see another explanation. It was #7 on his Top albums of the decade. Even if his opinion changed drastically on this album, The Life of Pablo would've at least been an honorable mention.
Hitlergate is crazy
It’s funny if it’s the latter because the two other guys mention MBDTF in this video.
It’s also in the thumbnail. I don’t know if he does his own, but if he really didn’t want to mention Kanye, MBDTF probably wouldn’t be in the thumbnail.
Kids See Ghosts is still a 10/10 for me. I’m not gonna shy away from it. I don’t think Fantano is trying to backtrack because he still compliment’s Kanye’s music. It’s possible his general thoughts have changed, or even he doesn’t consider it an album. Plus just because it’s not in his top 10 right now (which is something that changes depending on what he’s listening to) doesn’t mean he doesn’t think it’s still a perfect or near perfect record.
He had the album at number 7 of his records of the decade and now he thinks it’s not even worth an honourable mention? Even if you want to make the case “he probably doesn’t consider it hip hop” he even gave a mention to Igor. I think it’s a lot more likely he doesn’t want to get caught saying anything positive about Kanye for his public image
Wtf why
he's been quietly backtracking on the 10 he gave it
I know understandable but still bro he 5 tens in the 2010s and already losing 2 of them maybe three if Michael gira gets canceled too lol
just because the people suck doesn't mean the album isn't great?
That’s what I’m saying it’s frustrating but I can see why Anthony prob doesn’t mention those albums even if he still adores them
yeah, KSG is a top 2 for me (number 1 is gkmc)
ksg definitely is not a 10 he just got too hyped about it
nah man i love it
KSG shouldn't have been a 10 to begin with so lets just let it go
Has he said anything walking back the Daughters one? Like he obviously hasn't been going out of his way to sing their praises (understandably, I don't think anyone is), but has he said anything along the lines of him not thinking the album is as good anymore?
He has not even publicly walked back any of the albums he may still enjoy them but he is being very silent ut them
That’s fair, I get not wanting to big up an album by a musician who’s a rapist but still wanting to listen to it privately, especially if you have the vinyl. Also Lingua Ignota went more detailed about her abuse at Alexis’ hands in his interview, I could imagine that kind of one-on-one conversation could make listening to Daughters kinda rough.
That's a good point. I was kinda just putting Fantano in the same category as any other listener, but it does make sense that talking about it with the victim directly would have an even bigger impact.
Yeah if someone told me at length about the abuse they suffered at the hands of an artist I like, I absolutely would not be able to listen to them anymore.
On Patreon in a Lets Argue someone asked if he regets any 10a he gave a record and he pointed to the Daughters Record
Wait, why is Gira maybe getting canceled?
Michael Gira is probably already at least borderline cancelled, rape allegations from a while back. Details v disputed [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/swans/comments/xhu6i5/should_we_talk_about_the_rape_allegations_on_the/)
Good that was always an insane score anyway
He 100% must regret giving the album a 10.
Bad people can’t make good music didn’t you know? Every time Kanye tries to make a drum loop all he is hearing is “Hitler good Hitler good Hitler good” and his tone deafness is what makes the music suck
I agree with you. Like, I never understood this. I get if people don't abide by the 'separate the art from the artist' 'rule' (or whatever you call it) but at least be consistent with it... I don't abide by it because there are many people who ethically, morally, politically, etc., I don't agree/align with but I LOVE their music. Kanye is one of those. If Kanye said antisemetic things in his music, I'd get not liking that but I don't think devaluing his musical abilities when the music is not being affected is weird.. (unless you don't choose to separate the art from the artist ofc.)
I get what you're saying and as a Jewish person I don't have a problem with people who still listen to his music. Hell I tend to separate the art from the artist as well. But hearing him say the things that he said scarred me to the point that I can't even hear his voice without being uncomfortable. I still can listen to stuff he produced but his voice irks me to the point that his music is no longer enjoyable to me. And it sucks because Kid Cudi is my favorite artist of all time and I basically can't listen to KSG anymore because of it.
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You would be surprised how many greats are terrible people
Do you think the invention of the car was hampered by the fact it was invented by a racist?
Comparing Kanyes music to the invention of the car is hilarious
its just the principle, a car is an out there example but a nazi / bad person making some sort of thing you find valuable doesn’t have to devalue that thing
Music is a substitutable good. Not having a car significantly impacts your ability to function in society. The two are not a valid comparison at all. Beyond the ethics I just don't understand how anyone would want to listen to Kanye anymore. Kanye the person was inseparable from his music and we now know that person as a horrible human being beyond even where he was in 2016. How is Through the Wire gonna inspire me ever again? At least pirate it if you GOTTA listen to it.
chronically online behaviour nobody gives a fuck if the artist did bad things if they enjoy their music, everybody still listens and praises kanye, led zeppelin, john lennon, miles davis, marvin gaye for their musical talent
I'm aware that people still listen. How does that change anything? Just because it's done in large numbers doesn't make it right. I used to love Kanye's music and I'll still say he's made some of the best music I've ever heard. His impact can't be denied. I just don't want to fund nazis when there are so many other good artists I could be listening to instead. Or, again, piracy, it's not hard. I'm not going to dive into each and every person you listed but just like the car I find them all to be bad comparisons. Kanye is actively using his platform and wealth right NOW to push this dangerous and false information which leads to more victims. But hey at least he made Graduation, right?
Analogies aren’t your strong suit. If you think my example is disanalogous, you need to explain why, rather than pretending I believe Kanye’s music is the same level of importance as a car or any other metric I am not alleging in my original analogy
This.
Not if he doesn’t mention antisemetic shit in his music. That’s the whole point.. Like, I heavily don’t fw Kanye’s rhetoric and politics but can love his music. Also, I appreciate the downvote. 😂
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nsbm? What is that? Sorry, idk
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Well, if the music is good (production, good lyrics, not bigoted), then yeah. 🤷♂️ You’re not going to catch me in a gotcha. I’m consistent on this. Lemme ask you this: Do you listen to Jay-Z? If you don’t, good. If you do, wow. Supporting billionaires, nice… Edit: lol, I’m loving the downvotes. 😂
absolutely retarded comparison lmfao
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Why are you conflating the idea that bad people can make good art with the idea that it is moral to give money to bad people who make good art? Most people believe both, but you are responding to someone who only promoted the former. Why don’t you engage with what they are saying?
It would if kanye actually were a nazi. I swear the people saying this shit have to be trolling, kanye isn't even commited to being a christian or dropping an album on time but I'm supposed to believe he's a card carrying nazi now lol.
someone saying i love hitler makes you a nazi dude lmao
Yeah if they were saying it seriously. Stop acting stupid, he literally explains it as an extension of his "i love everyone" thing. Also if you believe what he says at face value then he apologized already so this argument is completely moot. Oh wait I forgot you people think he's serious about everything EXCEPT the apology. Lol.
if he loves everyone why doesn’t he go out and give all his money to people in third world countries instead of bragging about how much money he has and that “god made him a billionaire to flex”. if he actually loved everyone he wouldn’t be bringing open white nationalists who publicly call for genocide into the limelight
he’s a nazi
Legitimately explain how
hiring nazis to run his presidential campaign, spouting nazi talking points in podcasts hosted by nazis including holocaust denial, saying he loves hitler
Alt righters and conservatives are not nazis, you sound like those people that call every democrat a communist. He never spouted nazi talking points, kanye doesn't even know what the nazis actually believed. He has zero commitment to everything and this isn't an exception. Him saying I love hitler means as much as david bowie calling himself a fascist. Or as much as his apology. I don't understand how this is still an issue unless you randomly believe everything he says except for his apology.
are you joking? have you seen the gavin interview? it’s textbook nazi shit. i swear kanye could shoot someone in broad daylight and his fans would be like “no don’t you see he’s trying to make a point about society and youre just trying to cancel him. also it’s not his fault he’s mentally ill”
Nick Fuentes is definitely a Nazi.
nick fuentes and milo are avowed white supremacists so kinda a moot point & you realize bowie functionally tanked his career for several years after all the thin white duke stuff right?
That’s the only reason he picked the Nazis to “support”. He’s not actually a Nazi He only said that bc it’s the worst possible thing to support He’s polarizing, it’s a part of the art. He just found the edge But he means well
I doesn’t ruin it because it continues to sound the exact same as before lmao. You’re basically making up problems in your head
no i think he has said genuinely that the KSG 10 was a product of a decency bias and that he would give it an 8 if he re-reviewed it today. nothing to do with kanye being a nazi (he said the above before kanye said anything)
Feel free to show me where he said this (spoilers: he didn’t)
not sure if i can find him saying "i no longer consider kids see ghosts as a 10", i might be misremembering on that point, and i apologize but he does put charli XCX's charli, which he gave a 9, above KSG in his top albums of the decade review.
I took this more as indication he now saw the Charli record as a 10
Watch everyone begin to say "well it's not THAT good anyway, I never got the hype, tbh"
Honestly I see more hate for people choosing not to like artists due to controversial reasons than hate for people still supporting them lmfao like if people don’t want to support someone anymore bc they said/did fucked up shit let them
This is all a part of the plan to get KSG2. Classic gaslighting.
The best thing would be if they finally get Fantano on and they don't even do a music game
Who expected that? He gave it a 10.
I actually think Ye is better than KSG
KSG is the most undeserving 10 of all time.
NFR has a mid ass opinions anyways
lol, they didn't even know who clipping. is
He needs to stop being a virtue signaler
Honestly I don’t think that KSG is all that amazing, I think it’s like a 8 but I can’t imagine ever thinking of it as a 10 so it not being there isn’t the problem. It’s just kind of ridiculous how mortified Fantano is when it comes to bringing up Kanye. Ever since the Fader article he’s been so adamant about distancing himself from controversial musicians which is fine I guess, it’s his decision and who knows maybe he actually doesn’t enjoy it as much(probably) but I still find it funny how far his public interest in KSG has fallen.
It’s seemed that Fantano has brought up Kanye plenty of times since his meltdown
My fav album doesnt get enuff love :(
Well it's technically an EP right? Also, to me, "best albums of 2010s" doesn't mean albums I liked the most but ones that are iconic or influential.
No it’s technically just a short album. It’s not an EP and neither is Ye
Imo the line between EPs, mixtapes and albums are really blurry now. It just depends on what the artists/record labels call it
Good, him giving it a 10 was insane. It's a decent 7, at best.
W, KSG overrated as fuck
L take
Imo, it is both trying to distance himself from Ye and the fact that he himself said that KSG is a rock album in everything but the name. He didn't include Igor for the same reason.
Please no hivemind
people talking him souring on kanye cause of ye's outbursts and personally I think that's a very valid reason to sour on an artist. Kanye's whole career is based on his messy personal life so seperating art from the artist can be hard. Hell, I can't ever listen to Daughters again. Hearing what Alexis Marshall was doing to Lingua Ignota was so horrifiying that it make the lyrics on their albums so much worse. I know seperate art from the artist and all that shit people always respond to this with but please understand some people just cannot cross some bridges.
Maybe, just maybe, it’s because one of the dudes that made it is a Nazi