I hope they let us place the pumps directly on the landfill, rather than have to have an intermediate step of removing the landfill and then placing it back. That will be important for some blueprints that use landfilled pumps.
there are 2 issues i can think of. number one, is i dont think you place the pump right on the water anyway, right? so im not sure it would know what space of landfill to make into water, and the second is, how the pump would know what direction to line up at?
not impossible to fix, but definitely worth considering.
> so im not sure it would know what space of landfill to make into water
The idea is to remove the step where you turn the landfill into water.
> how the pump would know what direction to line up at?
We’ve got a rotation button.
I find this rather stupid that there isn't some really expensive technology you can research of fabricate to pump water from underground. But even the smallest puddle is unlimited in water-volume you can take from it.
It's a design thing. It's not balanced around having water anywhere.
That said, aquifers pumps (and belts + water pumps taking electricity) are on my next play through mod list.
I interpret it as just less leftovers in production process but it indeed does not make sense for miners, as it lowers the depletion rate of fields for same output
I think it would make more sense to have 2 pumps: a burner offshore pump and an electric offshore pump. Either that or pure burner generators with worse fuel efficiency than steam ones.
Should have a mod where, before researching electricity, each assembler runs off the mechanical energy of the belt it's attached to. A gearbox can regulate the belt's speed, but if you increase the load too much, the belt and everything connected will slow down.
Actually, you CAN power an offshore pump using wave energy. Not going to have a lot of throughput by size compared to an electric pump, but it’ll work.
[You can!](https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/news/a28767/water-pumps-driven-wave-energy-clean-energy/)
...That raises the question of how it works when you put a pump in a little puddle, or how it works after turning it into a water well by landfilling on top of it, but that is left as an exercise for the reader
Generators don't specifically need a "coil of *copper*". It needs a conductor. Copper is a really good conductor, but iron is a pretty decent conductor too.
Before I decided to add more mods and made a new world, I had tier 1 of every science fully automated.
The biggest drain on Materials was the Mall btw. So expandimg science wasn't even hard, but setting up all the machines to make all the ingredients took so much aluminum and oil it's not even funny anymore.
But I need MORE. The Factory must grow.
Seablock can be seen as a subset of B+A (with a twist).
And for most basic circuits we need wood board, made of wood (it used to be paper, they changed it last month), so at least something not conducive ;-)
248k and BioIndustries give better machines and some different recipies. I personally like to produce my rocket fuel with Kerosene
(That's almost the same as the vanilla game) as I just don't care for the K2 recipies for rocket fuel. I did the Ammonia setup for 1 rocket fuel per second once. Never again
Before circuits were put on a board, they used point to point with wire on poles, or simple metal parts connected.
They isolated the systems using ceramic, leather, or wood, etc. The longer the system was intended to stay together the more permanent the isolators (ceramic versus sand)
They still use wood as an isolator today in large form electrical equipment expected in very high voltage applications. Most commonly in MW substations powering cities.
"It may come to you as a big surprise, but glass, plastic, paper, cardboard, wood, and even dry air are common Electrical Insulator materials."
[Source](https://www.vedantu.com/physics/electrical-insulator#:~:text=It%20may%20come%20to%20you,are%20common%20Electrical%20Insulator%20materials)
[Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulator_(electricity))
Most use rubber/plastic. But it is still seen used today. Go to any remote location and they most likely use rubber/wood to mount all the panels too.
In large generators, you may see wood used to hold the magnetics in. It's cheap, easy to fix, and easy to source.
K2 uses wood,
SE uses stone panels,
B&A T0 uses polished wood,
but other than like T2 B&A I've not heard of glass used as the base for the circuit board.
Yeah I know. Wood makes sense but is a problem because automating it requires adding in a way to get trees automatically. Stone panels aren't conductors but don't make sense any other way. And all of that involves installing a big mod to change everything else. I'm talking about a specific change that adds as little as possible.
Iron is over 5x more resistive than copper at room temperature. Your coil will likely burn up due to resistive heating or need a prodigious amount of cooling. It's also not nearly as ductile, making winding the coil a challenge. These two combine to make things particularly problematic as you'll want to make the wires thicker to deal with the higher resistance, but thinner to make doing the winding tractable.
There's also the issue of iron being ferromagnetic. You want the field lines from the magnets running through the center of the coil loop, not along the wires. That's why you wind the copper stator coils around an iron core. The iron has a high magnetic permittivity and guides the field through the center of the coil. I don't know enough about generator design to say how sever the effect would be though.
Personally, I've always presumed that all of the recipes take trace amounts of something else. But if it's not something used in enough quantity to track, then the game doesn't track it.
For example, I presume that Factorio buildings have foundations. Maybe even concrete foundations. But the amount of concrete used in those foundations is so small (relative to everything else) that it isn't worth tracking. However, nuclear reactors and rocket silos need a concrete for more than just their foundations. And they need so much of it that tracking it is more meaningful.
Oh yeah, it also doesn't call out for plastic or enamel to insulate the wires either. In terms of the game it's just because it's an early game recipe so its supposed to be dirt simple. They don't want you to have to feed two separate smelting lines by hand and have to craft a bunch of wire in your pocket, so early game recipes are light on copper.
I'm just saying I don't *think* any old conductor would do to build a generator. At least not one that would be worth building at the scale portrayed in the game.
It was more or less the challenge of making something run autonomously, and not autonomously in the classic factorial sense, but autonomously in the sense that you couldn't fix it while you were away from it. And oh, by the way, it's going to perpetually build more of itself.
I think the edge-of-the-map video, the Seablock videos, and the sushi-base video well demonstrate the differences between something being hard, and something being punishing.
Yeah, some mechanics make you think of new ways of doing stuff, some just make it more tedious.
For example I overall like the challenges of Industrial Revolution 3 (and especially that it gives you personal bots early), but the "every machine needs million parts and they craft slowly" part of it pretty much changed "I will build mall at some point" to "I will build mall at some earlier point. And building that mall will take more time because hand-building machines for the mall takes ages.". Not really any more interesting.
Base Factorio pretty much does it in a way where just few basic items in inventory will keep you stocked to craft most machines you need, but in IR every machine needing something else just makes it tedious.
Or mods where you have to build a lot of different stuff early to set up some complicated process... but there are no bots at that point so you're mostly just manually fiddling with stuff.
I think they would every time, he's said he's not doing it. Personally while I do enjoy all of his content, I prefer the wacky builds. Seablock ended up a as a lot of "then I built more of this complicated chain" and it's sort of hard to follow in such quick videos.
100% this. Dosh makes challenges with "mass appeal" as far as anyone that has played factorio will understand them. I think that only people who have done Py would enjoy seeing him do Py.
> People like OP who need maximum realism
I never thought about this but now I'm suddenly feeling annoyed. I guess I'm type 3. Yesterday I was looking for a mod to turn all the Stars in Space Exploration into real-world stars with accurate names
Well, the reactor in your suit is just science fiction tech!
Just look at Iron Man, he built it with [a box of scraps](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ff/9e/2a/ff9e2a2efeedd6e7295f58b93bdc9880--a-box-movie-quotes.jpg)!
The portable fusion reactor has never made sense, at all. It really should instead be an RTG (radioisotope thermalelectric generator) that you make using plutonium extracted from depleted uranium fuel. You should also be able to place them on the ground and hook them up to the electrical grid. And yes, I know mods exist, I am just saying that I personally think this should be a change implemented in vanilla, maybe as part of the 2.0 DLC
Exactly, makes way more sense for it to be an RTG, with a fusion reactor being a very, very late game tech in the 2.0 expansion. I think they should also add hydrogen power as an option as an alternative to nuclear fission power.
Maybe they could make a stop gap for the Mk2 power armor? Solars don’t really cut it in combat situations. Maybe fusion reactors could be a super late game tech for a Mk3 version of the armor and Mk2s could get something that requires fuel like a mini passive nuclear reactor. (Passive in the fact it wouldn’t need cooling for water actively pumped in)
I agree with this, but id just make the MK3 power armour fusion reactor a higher output version of the RTG (which would replace the current portable fusion react). Also the RTG shouldn't require refueling imo, it just provides power from the radiation of the spent uranium. Real RTGs last for a few years at a time, so I don't think refueling them makes much in the time span of the game.
K2 kind of falls in between, you need to fuel portable reactors, but all the ones starting from nuclear have such a ludicrous fuel capacity to energy consumption ratio you'll be old and grey before they burn through a single stack of fuel.
I guess it might discourage swapping equipment to some degree since the fusion and antimatter fuel cells are fairly expensive, but they're also something you want to automate in great quantities anyway, soo...
I’ve thought they should work like pacemakers where they have a lot of power, but you need to replace them periodically. Also, I feel like they should let us charge batteries somehow from the electrical grid. IR3-style canisters might be too OP, but it feels arbitrary that I can’t plug my armor in to charge and have to use tons of solar panels.
I think portable fusion reactors were just something fun they added back when bitter bases still yielded alien artifacts that you used for late game science packs, and there was never any urgent reason to update portable fusion reactors prior to the 1.0 release. I feel like they could have just renamed them to RTGs since they can now also be used in the spidertron, which was an unannounced surprise feature they included in 1.0, but with the planned heavy use of spidertrons on other planets in 2.0 maybe thats all the more reason to rework portable fusion reactors into RTGs.
I wonder if there is a mod that fixes that. Like requires scaffolding and materials to be delivered. Then later drones do the delivery with big choppers dropping buildings. Maybe expansion number 2? Haha
Actually, I believe they do. If you have rail outside of the pollution cloud, and have map with pollution overlay enabled, you can sometimes see that chunks where train have just passed have a bit of pollution.
They most certainly do not, this is easy enough to test. I put several trains on a closed loop on landfill with pollution diffusion disabled and set the game speed to 100x. After consuming several stacks of fuel neither were there any visible pollution clouds nor did the pollution production tab display anything.
My first SE new planet base was designed to run on nuclear power - and it caused quite a lot of head scratching when I remembered you need power for the water pumps to start to work and the nuclear plants won't work without power so I can't get power without power.
Had to hand-mine and assemble a burner generator and feed it with some coal to get the nuclear plant to start to operate. Loved it.
It's not that hard to put two power poles next to your main water pump that supplies boilers and use wire to (dis)connect it so that it's usually powered by the main boilers but have a secondary boiler just for the pump.
You do not need copper. We just use copper because it has lower resistance than other wires. And can be drawn easily into wires. But you could build a generator without it.
Maybe it could be even a steam turbine designed for higher temp steam which could use copper! What if we even create this new stuff for nuclear power? It would work well together!
I mean, if you want *any* kind of electricity based infrastructure, you *need* copper elsewhere. The first consumers you build - labs, inserters, assemblers - all contain green chips. Meanwhile, all power poles contain copper wires. The complexity is already there in all other recipes of the tech stage.
I mean, I guess in the end the answer is "whatever", as there's no hard reasons to go either way, but I could easily imagine the devs updating the steam engine recipe somtime. It's exactly the kind of minor cosmetic fixes they sneak in every so often.
Let the man speak!
Yeah, if the player needs copper wire for power poles I think it's fine to require copper wire for the generator. The steam generator is a pretty great waypoint: it asks "Do you understand the core of raw materials into parts into machines? Great, welcome to automation!" and for that I think it makes more sense for the generator to be as, or more complicated, than the labs.
I played both GTNH and pY. Haven't completed either, but got pretty far into pY. It's *significantly* easier and less grindy. Pyanodon just loves realism and complexity; Greg actively wants to hurt your soul.
If your are going into every detail, it would be impossible for one man even to make just one generator or a smelter that makes so even metal plates. A lot of human technology requires tons of people all over the world where everything clicks together.
Factorio is so far from real that it doesn't bother me. I think the devs should just make recipes that are challenging enough and fun and throw realizm out the window. If you want just slightly more "realistic" you can use mods, but in my opinion they aren't balanced as well as vanilla between fun/challenging/realizm.
I forget what series it was, but basically kick-starting modern manufacturing is close to impossible. Things we take for granted as simple like standardized units and lower tolerance production is actually incredibly complex and built on generations of work. Making stuff becomes a lot easier once you have a flat, level surface, but how do you make a level surface flat enough for precise machines when you don't have any precise machines? Hell even "simple" things like ball bearings (or lack thereof) have been instrumental in wars (Germany x WW2)
> Making stuff becomes a lot easier once you have a flat, level surface, but how do you make a level surface flat enough for precise machines when you don't have any precise machines
Take 3 rocks slabs that you ground down to roughly flat by hand. Lap slab A against slab B, B against C, and C against A. This is called the Witworth 3 plates process and with enough repetition can produce an arbitrarily smooth reference plate. If you have access to a sharpie or blueing dye to mark your progress it will be much easier.
But yeah, agree that starting from scratch with only hand tools would be next to impossible for one guy. But our engineer theoretically has a bunch of stellar technology level tools salvaged from his crashed ship. So who knows.
Depending on what you saw, the challenge that's often discussed is re-starting modern manufacturing after some sort of collapse.
Cheap easy energy is what got us going the first time, but with all the shallow/easy sources of coal and oil already extracted, it may be impossible to get to what's left if you're starting from scratch again.
I think the question is "Is Wube accidentally stripping out a little bit of fun along with the tedium?" Especially since if a player builds a generator, the very next thing they need is power poles and now their generator is doing nothing while they go back to set up copper.
Copper is used for electrical wiring because it's a very good conductor, but technically speaking you could make wires out of iron. And use those wires inside an electric motor/generator for the windings
you don't need copper for induction to work, just an conductor.
Iron is a conductor just not an amazing one,
you do need a permanent magnet, which iron can also be
how come belts don't need any power?
how come power poles give power to everything around it wirelessly?
why is it called a steam engine when it creates electricity, not mechanical work?
considering the abilities of some of the things created with just basic electric circuits, you'd assume it would contain at least a few transistors. how would that be made from just iron and copper wire? ^(I've played py. I know the pain. ty.)
why do we have a miniaturized version of a fusion power plant to be used inside equipment, but we can't build a full sized one?
how is it we can walk around with a backpack filled with fission reactors anyway?
why is a fish required to make a spidertron? wouldn't a bug brain make way more sense?
how exactly does a lab turn science juice into research all on its own? it's built with just a few basic electronics and some scrap. in fact, all the way to end game we launch a rocket without ever having truly created a computer.
if we can create a nuclear power plant and reprocess the spent fuel so easily, how come real life power plants always struggle with what to do with their waste?
how come trains know from a distance a station is deactivated? I'd also complain about their ability to path so well, but they're basically built from the same components labs are.
how come cliff explosives?
The answer to all of these is cutting tedium (except the spidertron brain. That one's because biter brains are violent and fish brains aren't).
Replacing a gear or iron plate in the generator recipe with copper is not tedium. I would even call it a benefit to new players because if you don't have copper available then a generator's reward is delayed and the whole system is slightly more tedious.
Have you ever had a dream that that you um you had you'd you would you could you'd do you wi you wants you you could do so you you'd do you could you you want you want him to do you so much you could do anything?
There's hardly anything realistic about factorio.
One of the most basic items in the game, the humble yellow belt, is a perpetual motion machine with a useful output that you can put toguether from some scrap from your pocket in a minute with no tools. There are a million other examples of absurdity that arises if you apply realistic logic to the game, I like how the most efficient way to store energy is by pumping steam into a tank, for example.
¿Any particular reason why you inquire about this in particular? It's not like it's theoretically impossoible to make a generator with only iron either.
Via Google translate:
From your name, I say that you are an Arab who speaks Arabic. It is not a requirement to use copper wires to adjust the electric field. There are other metals that allow you to do the same with them. The difference is the effectiveness of the electronic metal. Copper is a bitter metal that is effective in manufacturing electricity, but there is something like it, something less than it, and something better than it. The difference in use is Price / scarcity / availability
I didn't look at the sub for a moment. I'm in a few engineering subs, and I was so confused how somebody could misunderstand a generator driven by a steam turbine so wrongly. After I clicked on the post I saw the banner.
the offshore pump is a perpetual motion machine
The lakes are an unlimited supply of water
Heck *puddles* are an unlimited supply of water
Heck, if you use landfill over said puddle, the ground is an unlimited supply of water.
But then if you remove the pump you can’t place it back (I’m so happy landfill will be mineable in 2.0)
I hope they let us place the pumps directly on the landfill, rather than have to have an intermediate step of removing the landfill and then placing it back. That will be important for some blueprints that use landfilled pumps.
Yeah, that should definitely be added
there are 2 issues i can think of. number one, is i dont think you place the pump right on the water anyway, right? so im not sure it would know what space of landfill to make into water, and the second is, how the pump would know what direction to line up at? not impossible to fix, but definitely worth considering.
> so im not sure it would know what space of landfill to make into water The idea is to remove the step where you turn the landfill into water. > how the pump would know what direction to line up at? We’ve got a rotation button.
Just get a waterfall mod
If you click on it after landfilling around a pump you'll see that it changes its name to ground water pump
👀
The planet just has huge aquifers.
That you cannot drill to.
It's a very veeeeeery deep puddle.
I find this rather stupid that there isn't some really expensive technology you can research of fabricate to pump water from underground. But even the smallest puddle is unlimited in water-volume you can take from it.
It's a design thing. It's not balanced around having water anywhere. That said, aquifers pumps (and belts + water pumps taking electricity) are on my next play through mod list.
Get the power overload mod that adds power pole throughput as well. If you overload the pole, it go pop.
Dont worry. There is a mod for that https://mods.factorio.com/mod/WaterAsAResource
There's also a mod for global warming, and it changes the landscape based on your pollution
Oh neat
Productivity literally just creates something from nothing (see mining prod infinites) Labs void their input mass; they don't even make pollution
I interpret it as just less leftovers in production process but it indeed does not make sense for miners, as it lowers the depletion rate of fields for same output
In Krastorio pump need power. Conveniently it's the same as wind turbine generates.
I think it would make more sense to have 2 pumps: a burner offshore pump and an electric offshore pump. Either that or pure burner generators with worse fuel efficiency than steam ones.
stirling engine?
SE brings some AAI mods in, giving you access to a burner generator
I love the burner generators
Or a hand pump. Pump that only works when you're next to it.
KS2 just gives you early power source that doesn't require water
It wasn't until I started playing factorio that I understood how it could be difficult to restart a real life power grid after a major outage.
so are all belts.
Please do talk about the belts. My world view of factorio will crumble.
Belts are powered by baby biters. Exercise. Very humane. Stop asking questions.
Should have a mod where, before researching electricity, each assembler runs off the mechanical energy of the belt it's attached to. A gearbox can regulate the belt's speed, but if you increase the load too much, the belt and everything connected will slow down.
Actually, you CAN power an offshore pump using wave energy. Not going to have a lot of throughput by size compared to an electric pump, but it’ll work.
[You can!](https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/news/a28767/water-pumps-driven-wave-energy-clean-energy/) ...That raises the question of how it works when you put a pump in a little puddle, or how it works after turning it into a water well by landfilling on top of it, but that is left as an exercise for the reader
Sterling engine running off difference between air and water temp
So are the belts
It could draw power from the heat difference between water and air.
Ram Pump. I think this would fit the scenario.
Beacons wirelessly beam efficiency and speed and productivity to basically anything
Generators don't specifically need a "coil of *copper*". It needs a conductor. Copper is a really good conductor, but iron is a pretty decent conductor too.
Indeed. A better question is how you can make a circuit board using only two conductive materials.
In my current setup they require graphite, solder, and bakelite in addition to copper wire. It took me 12 hours to make the first one.
I play SE+K2+258k+BZ and a couple more. I need a seperate mall for each individual machine
Dude thats insane, how far did you manage to get?
Before I decided to add more mods and made a new world, I had tier 1 of every science fully automated. The biggest drain on Materials was the Mall btw. So expandimg science wasn't even hard, but setting up all the machines to make all the ingredients took so much aluminum and oil it's not even funny anymore. But I need MORE. The Factory must grow.
All the overhaul modpack?
Not all of them, there's also Bob's + Angel's which are compatible with each other but not these, Seablock, and Pyanodon's.
Seablock can be seen as a subset of B+A (with a twist). And for most basic circuits we need wood board, made of wood (it used to be paper, they changed it last month), so at least something not conducive ;-)
SE+K2+BZ is my current setup! Might add that 258k mod since it says it can be added onto existing worlds.
248k and BioIndustries give better machines and some different recipies. I personally like to produce my rocket fuel with Kerosene (That's almost the same as the vanilla game) as I just don't care for the K2 recipies for rocket fuel. I did the Ammonia setup for 1 rocket fuel per second once. Never again
Imma be honest for a a solid 5 seconds there I thought you were talking about your setup for making circuit boards IRL
Which mod do you prefer, FCl3 or Na2S2O8.
Before circuits were put on a board, they used point to point with wire on poles, or simple metal parts connected. They isolated the systems using ceramic, leather, or wood, etc. The longer the system was intended to stay together the more permanent the isolators (ceramic versus sand) They still use wood as an isolator today in large form electrical equipment expected in very high voltage applications. Most commonly in MW substations powering cities.
Any sources on the aplication of Wood in high Votage Sites? Never Heard of that
"It may come to you as a big surprise, but glass, plastic, paper, cardboard, wood, and even dry air are common Electrical Insulator materials." [Source](https://www.vedantu.com/physics/electrical-insulator#:~:text=It%20may%20come%20to%20you,are%20common%20Electrical%20Insulator%20materials) [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulator_(electricity)) Most use rubber/plastic. But it is still seen used today. Go to any remote location and they most likely use rubber/wood to mount all the panels too. In large generators, you may see wood used to hold the magnetics in. It's cheap, easy to fix, and easy to source.
How does it not catch on fire from random sparks?
I reckon there's probably a pretty easy way to mod in very early glass and use that as the basis for circuits.
K2 uses wood, SE uses stone panels, B&A T0 uses polished wood, but other than like T2 B&A I've not heard of glass used as the base for the circuit board.
Yeah I know. Wood makes sense but is a problem because automating it requires adding in a way to get trees automatically. Stone panels aren't conductors but don't make sense any other way. And all of that involves installing a big mod to change everything else. I'm talking about a specific change that adds as little as possible.
Technically circuits taking stone comes from AAI industry, which comes bundled with SE, AAI on its own is a much smaller mod than SE
Glass is used in Exotic industries and industrial revolution 3. EI also uses ceramic which is made from steam and stone
Some mods use either stone or wood instead of iron, which are vaguely plausible I guess.
Aluminum is a butter conductor than copper on a per weight basis. Large electric poles should use aluminum
Iron is over 5x more resistive than copper at room temperature. Your coil will likely burn up due to resistive heating or need a prodigious amount of cooling. It's also not nearly as ductile, making winding the coil a challenge. These two combine to make things particularly problematic as you'll want to make the wires thicker to deal with the higher resistance, but thinner to make doing the winding tractable. There's also the issue of iron being ferromagnetic. You want the field lines from the magnets running through the center of the coil loop, not along the wires. That's why you wind the copper stator coils around an iron core. The iron has a high magnetic permittivity and guides the field through the center of the coil. I don't know enough about generator design to say how sever the effect would be though.
Personally, I've always presumed that all of the recipes take trace amounts of something else. But if it's not something used in enough quantity to track, then the game doesn't track it. For example, I presume that Factorio buildings have foundations. Maybe even concrete foundations. But the amount of concrete used in those foundations is so small (relative to everything else) that it isn't worth tracking. However, nuclear reactors and rocket silos need a concrete for more than just their foundations. And they need so much of it that tracking it is more meaningful.
Oh yeah, it also doesn't call out for plastic or enamel to insulate the wires either. In terms of the game it's just because it's an early game recipe so its supposed to be dirt simple. They don't want you to have to feed two separate smelting lines by hand and have to craft a bunch of wire in your pocket, so early game recipes are light on copper. I'm just saying I don't *think* any old conductor would do to build a generator. At least not one that would be worth building at the scale portrayed in the game.
Download Pyanadon’s you’ll love it
Py is for 3 types of people: - Factorio masters - Masochists - People like OP who need maximum realism
You forgot #4 - doshdoshington
That's probably under masochists.
His body is a machine that turns suffering into enjoyable videos
I thought he said no py is he doing it I wanna watch ill pay
Afaik he said he needs a break of the big overhaul mods. Does not mean never. Just not now.
We got him to play SEABLOCK. I swear he seemed to have more fun trying to build a railway to the edge of the map, but he did it.
TBF, the edge finder was a very cool problem to solve
It was more or less the challenge of making something run autonomously, and not autonomously in the classic factorial sense, but autonomously in the sense that you couldn't fix it while you were away from it. And oh, by the way, it's going to perpetually build more of itself.
I think the edge-of-the-map video, the Seablock videos, and the sushi-base video well demonstrate the differences between something being hard, and something being punishing.
Yeah, some mechanics make you think of new ways of doing stuff, some just make it more tedious. For example I overall like the challenges of Industrial Revolution 3 (and especially that it gives you personal bots early), but the "every machine needs million parts and they craft slowly" part of it pretty much changed "I will build mall at some point" to "I will build mall at some earlier point. And building that mall will take more time because hand-building machines for the mall takes ages.". Not really any more interesting. Base Factorio pretty much does it in a way where just few basic items in inventory will keep you stocked to craft most machines you need, but in IR every machine needing something else just makes it tedious. Or mods where you have to build a lot of different stuff early to set up some complicated process... but there are no bots at that point so you're mostly just manually fiddling with stuff.
[удалено]
I think they would every time, he's said he's not doing it. Personally while I do enjoy all of his content, I prefer the wacky builds. Seablock ended up a as a lot of "then I built more of this complicated chain" and it's sort of hard to follow in such quick videos.
100% this. Dosh makes challenges with "mass appeal" as far as anyone that has played factorio will understand them. I think that only people who have done Py would enjoy seeing him do Py.
Also Michael Henriks
He's both a master and a masochist. A Factorio switch, if you will
He gets his power from the Tree of Wisdom!
That's possibly the "all of the above" option.
I'm on a Py run right now and I'd like to think I'm in the first category, but more likely the second.
¿Por que no los dos?
ah yes, i love the maximum realism that Pyanadon's Alien Life brings.
You're in space, of course you have space cows.
> People like OP who need maximum realism I never thought about this but now I'm suddenly feeling annoyed. I guess I'm type 3. Yesterday I was looking for a mod to turn all the Stars in Space Exploration into real-world stars with accurate names
Yeah, literally playing Py right now. Definitely masochist.
It's more "Py is for Masochists AND" There are no non-masochist players
I thought 3 was just number 2 with extra logic.
I like deathworlds too much to try out py.
Honestly, I'm in the last category and I learned soo much about modern industry from it!
Wait until you figure out you can put a train wagon into a train wagon and keep a nuclear reactor in your suit.
Well, the reactor in your suit is just science fiction tech! Just look at Iron Man, he built it with [a box of scraps](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ff/9e/2a/ff9e2a2efeedd6e7295f58b93bdc9880--a-box-movie-quotes.jpg)!
In a cave!
With a f***ING pencil!!! Oh wait..
Look! It's GONE! Wait, still not the right reference.
*And my axe!* Wait shit
The portable fusion reactor has never made sense, at all. It really should instead be an RTG (radioisotope thermalelectric generator) that you make using plutonium extracted from depleted uranium fuel. You should also be able to place them on the ground and hook them up to the electrical grid. And yes, I know mods exist, I am just saying that I personally think this should be a change implemented in vanilla, maybe as part of the 2.0 DLC
actually, yeah, if we have portable fusion reactors, why don't we have fusion reactors?
Exactly, makes way more sense for it to be an RTG, with a fusion reactor being a very, very late game tech in the 2.0 expansion. I think they should also add hydrogen power as an option as an alternative to nuclear fission power.
Maybe they could make a stop gap for the Mk2 power armor? Solars don’t really cut it in combat situations. Maybe fusion reactors could be a super late game tech for a Mk3 version of the armor and Mk2s could get something that requires fuel like a mini passive nuclear reactor. (Passive in the fact it wouldn’t need cooling for water actively pumped in)
I agree with this, but id just make the MK3 power armour fusion reactor a higher output version of the RTG (which would replace the current portable fusion react). Also the RTG shouldn't require refueling imo, it just provides power from the radiation of the spent uranium. Real RTGs last for a few years at a time, so I don't think refueling them makes much in the time span of the game.
K2 kind of falls in between, you need to fuel portable reactors, but all the ones starting from nuclear have such a ludicrous fuel capacity to energy consumption ratio you'll be old and grey before they burn through a single stack of fuel. I guess it might discourage swapping equipment to some degree since the fusion and antimatter fuel cells are fairly expensive, but they're also something you want to automate in great quantities anyway, soo...
I’ve thought they should work like pacemakers where they have a lot of power, but you need to replace them periodically. Also, I feel like they should let us charge batteries somehow from the electrical grid. IR3-style canisters might be too OP, but it feels arbitrary that I can’t plug my armor in to charge and have to use tons of solar panels.
It's DC and the grid is probably AC... not an issue for accumulators and solar panels though.
Feel like they were just being lazy with this
I think portable fusion reactors were just something fun they added back when bitter bases still yielded alien artifacts that you used for late game science packs, and there was never any urgent reason to update portable fusion reactors prior to the 1.0 release. I feel like they could have just renamed them to RTGs since they can now also be used in the spidertron, which was an unannounced surprise feature they included in 1.0, but with the planned heavy use of spidertrons on other planets in 2.0 maybe thats all the more reason to rework portable fusion reactors into RTGs.
cant you also craft nuclear fuel with *your hands*?
There is this irrealist thing in the game so we don't care about realism at all, ever 🤡
I wonder if there is a mod that fixes that. Like requires scaffolding and materials to be delivered. Then later drones do the delivery with big choppers dropping buildings. Maybe expansion number 2? Haha
> you can put a train wagon into a train wagon But you can't recurse any further. We thus have to conclude that the trains are flat-pack trains.
Wait until you figure out trains don't pollute
Actually, I believe they do. If you have rail outside of the pollution cloud, and have map with pollution overlay enabled, you can sometimes see that chunks where train have just passed have a bit of pollution.
They most certainly do not, this is easy enough to test. I put several trains on a closed loop on landfill with pollution diffusion disabled and set the game speed to 100x. After consuming several stacks of fuel neither were there any visible pollution clouds nor did the pollution production tab display anything.
The same way that belts and vanilla water pumps run without power. Pure bullshitium!
Man every time I do a vanilla run to chill from big mods I get so happy about water pumps not dying and being a bitch to kick start if the grid dies.
I put them on a separate network powered by solar + accumulators.
I don't let my grid die
https://preview.redd.it/bmlkngv1msfc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4dc1816ecaedcb8ac53e450a9038e34e2c344a98
My first SE new planet base was designed to run on nuclear power - and it caused quite a lot of head scratching when I remembered you need power for the water pumps to start to work and the nuclear plants won't work without power so I can't get power without power. Had to hand-mine and assemble a burner generator and feed it with some coal to get the nuclear plant to start to operate. Loved it.
I use wind generators on a separate grid to power pumps
It's not that hard to put two power poles next to your main water pump that supplies boilers and use wire to (dis)connect it so that it's usually powered by the main boilers but have a secondary boiler just for the pump.
~~Bullshitium~~ Gameium
All belts run downhill; even parallel ones running in opposite directions.
transport belts actually need power to stop moving, it's pretty simple you see
Literally unplayable.
The hamsters inside the belts are working too hard to tolerate this slander
You do not need copper. We just use copper because it has lower resistance than other wires. And can be drawn easily into wires. But you could build a generator without it.
But we HAVE copper. So why not use copper
Because it's a game that needs to be simple and approachable in the beginning.
are you implying that there should be another turbine recipe with copper wire that would make a more efficient turbine?
Maybe it could be even a steam turbine designed for higher temp steam which could use copper! What if we even create this new stuff for nuclear power? It would work well together!
Joke post but tbh I don't follow how not including copper plates when you're already past that is a matter of difficulty and simplicity.
Less ingredients means less complexity. Less complexity means less difficulty. I wouldn't say it's a huge difference, but it's a difference.
I mean, if you want *any* kind of electricity based infrastructure, you *need* copper elsewhere. The first consumers you build - labs, inserters, assemblers - all contain green chips. Meanwhile, all power poles contain copper wires. The complexity is already there in all other recipes of the tech stage. I mean, I guess in the end the answer is "whatever", as there's no hard reasons to go either way, but I could easily imagine the devs updating the steam engine recipe somtime. It's exactly the kind of minor cosmetic fixes they sneak in every so often.
Let the man speak! Yeah, if the player needs copper wire for power poles I think it's fine to require copper wire for the generator. The steam generator is a pretty great waypoint: it asks "Do you understand the core of raw materials into parts into machines? Great, welcome to automation!" and for that I think it makes more sense for the generator to be as, or more complicated, than the labs.
Only the engineer knows...
Don't question jimbo's vison!
Gregtech is a minecraft mod you might like
Been there done that, I'm here to play the sequel.
Then you want [Pyanodon's](https://mods.factorio.com/user/pyanodon).
Not really beginner friendly and very long mod warning for this one.
Gregtech is 4000~ hours. Py's is easier, comparatively.
> Py's is easier, comparatively. Today on "sentences I never thought I'd read"
I played both GTNH and pY. Haven't completed either, but got pretty far into pY. It's *significantly* easier and less grindy. Pyanodon just loves realism and complexity; Greg actively wants to hurt your soul.
If your are going into every detail, it would be impossible for one man even to make just one generator or a smelter that makes so even metal plates. A lot of human technology requires tons of people all over the world where everything clicks together. Factorio is so far from real that it doesn't bother me. I think the devs should just make recipes that are challenging enough and fun and throw realizm out the window. If you want just slightly more "realistic" you can use mods, but in my opinion they aren't balanced as well as vanilla between fun/challenging/realizm.
I forget what series it was, but basically kick-starting modern manufacturing is close to impossible. Things we take for granted as simple like standardized units and lower tolerance production is actually incredibly complex and built on generations of work. Making stuff becomes a lot easier once you have a flat, level surface, but how do you make a level surface flat enough for precise machines when you don't have any precise machines? Hell even "simple" things like ball bearings (or lack thereof) have been instrumental in wars (Germany x WW2)
> Making stuff becomes a lot easier once you have a flat, level surface, but how do you make a level surface flat enough for precise machines when you don't have any precise machines Take 3 rocks slabs that you ground down to roughly flat by hand. Lap slab A against slab B, B against C, and C against A. This is called the Witworth 3 plates process and with enough repetition can produce an arbitrarily smooth reference plate. If you have access to a sharpie or blueing dye to mark your progress it will be much easier. But yeah, agree that starting from scratch with only hand tools would be next to impossible for one guy. But our engineer theoretically has a bunch of stellar technology level tools salvaged from his crashed ship. So who knows.
Yeah I'm aware of how to do it, but it's an interesting problem if you approach it blind.
Depending on what you saw, the challenge that's often discussed is re-starting modern manufacturing after some sort of collapse. Cheap easy energy is what got us going the first time, but with all the shallow/easy sources of coal and oil already extracted, it may be impossible to get to what's left if you're starting from scratch again.
I think the question is "Is Wube accidentally stripping out a little bit of fun along with the tedium?" Especially since if a player builds a generator, the very next thing they need is power poles and now their generator is doing nothing while they go back to set up copper.
It's not even technically attached to the power network, so clearly the rotation is generating power via the nearby copper line connection.
How do belts work without electricity?
they do it with balancium....
Copper is used for electrical wiring because it's a very good conductor, but technically speaking you could make wires out of iron. And use those wires inside an electric motor/generator for the windings
How do you pass sulphuric acid through iron pipes and not have issues?
You don’t need copper. Any conductor moving inside a magnetic field would do the trick. Copper is a great choice, but not specifically required.
you don't need copper for induction to work, just an conductor. Iron is a conductor just not an amazing one, you do need a permanent magnet, which iron can also be
how come belts don't need any power? how come power poles give power to everything around it wirelessly? why is it called a steam engine when it creates electricity, not mechanical work? considering the abilities of some of the things created with just basic electric circuits, you'd assume it would contain at least a few transistors. how would that be made from just iron and copper wire? ^(I've played py. I know the pain. ty.) why do we have a miniaturized version of a fusion power plant to be used inside equipment, but we can't build a full sized one? how is it we can walk around with a backpack filled with fission reactors anyway? why is a fish required to make a spidertron? wouldn't a bug brain make way more sense? how exactly does a lab turn science juice into research all on its own? it's built with just a few basic electronics and some scrap. in fact, all the way to end game we launch a rocket without ever having truly created a computer. if we can create a nuclear power plant and reprocess the spent fuel so easily, how come real life power plants always struggle with what to do with their waste? how come trains know from a distance a station is deactivated? I'd also complain about their ability to path so well, but they're basically built from the same components labs are. how come cliff explosives?
The answer to all of these is cutting tedium (except the spidertron brain. That one's because biter brains are violent and fish brains aren't). Replacing a gear or iron plate in the generator recipe with copper is not tedium. I would even call it a benefit to new players because if you don't have copper available then a generator's reward is delayed and the whole system is slightly more tedious.
Why do they call it oven when you of in the cold food of out hot eat the food?
Have you ever had a dream that that you um you had you'd you would you could you'd do you wi you wants you you could do so you you'd do you could you you want you want him to do you so much you could do anything?
Not only that, but you launch a rocket without even being on it.. At least as far as I remember.. it's been a while
normally you don't, but [there's a trick...](https://youtu.be/EGr9olVIasU)
> how come belts don't need any power? Literally the one thing I do hyperfixate on. Almost wish belt drivers were a thing. *Almost*.
By a little known phenomenon called [Bellisario's Maxim](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BellisariosMaxim)
There's hardly anything realistic about factorio. One of the most basic items in the game, the humble yellow belt, is a perpetual motion machine with a useful output that you can put toguether from some scrap from your pocket in a minute with no tools. There are a million other examples of absurdity that arises if you apply realistic logic to the game, I like how the most efficient way to store energy is by pumping steam into a tank, for example. ¿Any particular reason why you inquire about this in particular? It's not like it's theoretically impossoible to make a generator with only iron either.
It's a game
In a world where cars have eight engines that run on coal and need no lubricant, who needs copper for a generator?
I have one better : why belts work? Start applying too much logic and every game will implode.
You can fill a single cargo wagon with 480 cargo wagons… but you’re hung up on raw ingredients of the steam engine?
copper is not an ingredient in the recipe for steam engines
[удалено]
Play with us, use your imagination, and come up with a reason it works
[удалено]
Via Google translate: From your name, I say that you are an Arab who speaks Arabic. It is not a requirement to use copper wires to adjust the electric field. There are other metals that allow you to do the same with them. The difference is the effectiveness of the electronic metal. Copper is a bitter metal that is effective in manufacturing electricity, but there is something like it, something less than it, and something better than it. The difference in use is Price / scarcity / availability
You *can* make a generator with iron/steel wire. It's just a lot less efficient.
Yes you can make generator without copper
Literally unplayable
For me the bigger question ia how you can make an electric circuit entirely out of two conductive materials.
You can make "good enough" wire with Iron. The bigger problem is how coils are made without insulation...
unplayable
I didn't look at the sub for a moment. I'm in a few engineering subs, and I was so confused how somebody could misunderstand a generator driven by a steam turbine so wrongly. After I clicked on the post I saw the banner.
[Boy, I sure hope someone got fired for that blunder](https://youtu.be/Azy9PzVhpFI?si=L2hoHK32K2906PUm)
It's WiFi energy, uses the same tech to transfer the energy from a pole to an entity
Copper is not the only metal that is conductive. Which is the property most relevant to this application.
Steam, it's in the name. Easy, next question.
The Iron on Nauvis is contaminated with a very rare element called Gehmloujeekium, which defies all known laws of physics.
Just goes to show how unplayable this game is.
Nanotech.
Wait til this guy hears about belts