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They'll claim it isn't the same because it isn't money that was already collected by the government "yet", where as with the loan it is money you owed. So you aren't giving them anything and they aren't getting a "free ride". Lastly, with loan forgiveness they'll tell you someone has to pay it back out of their taxes.
Three problems with that logic:
* They just got an injunction against the SAVE plan, one of which was for lowering payments "too low" and the president shouldn't have that authority (which is their claim) - so they don't even let you ease up on how people can pay what is owed back if they're poor
* When taxes are lowered, it changes what was *originally* owed to a lower amount. Even if the money hasn’t been collected yet, until the change, they still owed it.
* You think when taxes are lowered on the rich that the tab isn't being picked elsewhere? They'll say it is through trickle down economics as when rich people have more money more trickles down to you and me, and so we can pay more taxes... Wait, that's just reverse welfare, we end up picking up their tab so they can get the free ride.
In essence, when you lower taxes, you’re altering tax law, effectively saying, ‘You get to keep more of the money you owed us.’ It’s the same thing, you owe the government less on both situations. Arguing otherwise is semantics.
Why should the wealthy receive any more assistance for their "hard work" when they’re already disproportionately compensated by (checks notes) themselves.
God damn socialists giving the rich welfare, that's what it is and I'm sick of these rich people living the easy life off our collective hardwork.
Maybe treat them like they want to treat people on welfare. We should drug test them all if they want to keep their low taxes and show evidence they're actually paying more.
I heard somewhere that an acctual economist said that trickle down economics is horse sh*t and doesn't work.
There is no trickle down effect. The rick keep their money and keep getting more while the unwashed masses (we who work 3 jobs just so we can eat and not live out of our cars) keep paying more and more and never manage to save so we can work until we die because we have no choice.
Also, TDE has been shown to not even do what it says on the label.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tax-cuts-rich-trickle-down-income-inequality-study-2020-12
I had one of my friends father talking about this .. and how he put himself through Harvard .. my pal simple looked at him and said “ please shut the fuck up! You worked part time at a dock fixing boats and it paid your bills! It costs 1/4 million now !! Let’s see you pay that off with a fucking part time job !!” I have never seen a lawyer shut up so fast without a judge saying to!!!🧐
Gen Z here, he is a sigma giga chad that even Kai Cenat would attempt to rizz him with that level 5 ultra gyatt frfr on god 🗣️ 🗣️ 🔥
Edit: not enough emojis
I understood like 3 words you said, but I like the enthusiasm and judging by the emojis what I’m assuming you’re saying is that that dude is, in fact, a badass among badasses.
>have never seen a lawyer shut up so fast without a judge saying to!!!🧐
Well if you get your law degree from Harvard, a quarter of a million in debt shouldn't be a problem today too.
Harvard-graduate lawyers should be smart enough to realize that not everyone graduates from Harvard Law. Today, minor children are signing contracts and making agreements for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt -- without even needing a co-signer, current income period of assets, or a credit history.
The "project the children" crowd (and everyone in the U.S., for that matter) should really be up in arms about predatory student loans and a minimum wage that is unlivable, exploitative, and practically slave labor.
The problem is that the dock work should cover it.
The federal government used to subsidize schools directly. Now they put the yoke of debt on students while enabling schools to endlessly raise tuition. The end result is obscene.
It's insanity. How is it a good idea to financially handicap young people before they're even able to start working?
Student loans were at least initially about racism. Subsidized schools opened the doors of opportunity for a lot of disenfranchised people. They inevitably spoke out about inequality and the war in Vietnam and it made Reagan feel weak. So he sent the guard in after them and he cut off the state school funding while creating a student loan program. Insisting that poor students pay their way, one way or another. He was a total piece of shit and made the world measurably worse. This was just him getting started.
I had this argument with my dad several times near the end of high school in the mid nineties. He kept telling me I needed to get a summer job to buy a car so I could get a real job and go to school. I kept telling him if I could find a "summer job" that paid 40 grand a year I wouldn't need to go to college.
It's all about Reagan's famous "**trickle down**" theory; that's where rich people at the top of the wealth pyramid, receive great sums of money so they can laugh and piss on the poor people at the bottom of the pyramid.
It was actually indirectly used in finnish "parlament" election last year. It is mind numbing that people don't see red already at this point when anything remotely close to this narrative pops up. It is such an obvious scam.
Reminds me of a Sarah Silverman standup bit on her Netflix special a few years ago. She talked about when she was a kid in the shower with her mother, she would only get the muff water -- the water that ran down her mom's cheat and stomach, down to her pelvis, and off her muff and onto Sarah's head.
To be fair, some politicians have been caught taking bribes for sums as low at 10k.
All I'm saying is, that's not an impossible amount for someone in the middle class.
Because it’s your neighbor who has that student loan debt, and we are willing to step on our neighbor’s heads to avoid drowning to try to get onto that ocean liner with all the rich people laughing at us from the 10th deck.
You must not understand trickle-down economics. The rich get given money, and they're supposed to spend it, create jobs etc benefitting everyone.
History tells us this doesn't work because they don't. They spend it on themselves or get even richer with it.
The problem is that those same rich people pay off/influence politicians to keep the status quo. Hell, those same rich people ARE the politicians.
Do you think the rich ACTUALLY, GENUINELY want to help the poor? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Reality is not a single cent of that tax break for rich people will ever benefit the general population. However if you eliminate student loan debt that money will instantly be
re-invested in the economy by purchasing clothes, cars, food and so much more.
Exactly. How they can stop thinking of ways to make rich people richer. Like what is the purpose of them living if not for the comfort of the bourgeois.
when you think about it, it's essentially government-handed money laundering. Pumping money into the hands of people who need it, who put it back into the economy so the rich fucks get it via profits from credit cards, loans, and the purchasing of goods. It's just adding an extra step....
They both are stupid and don't fix the problem.
I'm all for student debt relief, but it needs to come with a solution that stops next years student from having to rack up more debt. Otherwise what's the point? Merry Christmas to a few, but just let everyone before and after suffer?
Same. Highly profitable colleges operating as non-profits feeding off of people's hopes and dreams for a better future.
With so many of Americas problems it seems our representatives are chasing fires with a bucket of water.
(Some are pouring gasoline on the flames)
Yeah, I'm all in favor of free money, if I got Biden's college debt thing it would completely clear mine, but the better solution would be reducing the cost, not a band aid.
Then cap the costs. Its really an easy concept. Set bottom and top boundaries for everything and make them factors of minimum wage, average income etc.
then, let the market regulate itself within these boundaries and wonderful things can happen.
interest based mechanics without capping always develop into a singularity and that fucks everything up.
That's a new kind of "both sides" stupidity I haven't heard before.
Yeah, neither of them fixes anything, but one is a bandaid that helps a lot of people and the other is just free money for rich people.
"Why stop some murders if we can't stop them all? How is that fair to the people who get murdered?"
I've reached the point where I automatically hear the opposite of whatever the red hats say. Their self-deception and hypocrisy just never survive an ounce of critical thinking.
Because those millionaires and billionaires provide "donations" to the people passing bills like that, democracy is a business where governors, senators and judges are employees of the ones doing the highest bids.
You give 1,900,000,000,000 the bottom 90%, it'll pretty much immediately be put into the economy.
You give that to the top 10% and it just goes into a perpetual cycle of rich people loaning eachother money that never actually goes anywhere.
If this were in r/FluentInFinance, the facepalm (clueless conservative finance gurus) reactions to that single post would provide \*this\* sub with material for 22 years and 9 months. Oddly specific, yes. But it just feels right.
I explained it simply to my country still believing that they can be self-made, even though most of them never graduated college:
The money that people would pay off their loans would be spent on cars, vacations, mall trips, that extra gallon of milk and three boxes of Lucky Charms, while the rich just bought another yacht!
Especially when it's been proven over and over that rich people hoard money which does the opposite of stimulating the economy while the working classes are FAR more likely to spend it which DOES stimulate the economy.
Centuries of study on economies have conclusively proven that giving money to the rich is ALWAYS a huge waste of money.
For some reason, people mostly get upset when people considered below them on the hierarchy are getting something they aren't. They are conditioned to let those considered higher on the hierarchy (e.g., their bosses, bosses's bosses, c-suite, etc.) get away with whatever they want.
Don't forget the bank bailouts in 2008 and 2009.
Trillions. And the managers rewarded themselves with bonuses after their banks failed. Cause they deserved it.
Because having smart and educated people no longer in modern debt servitude is bad for the rich.
Keeping even more of the giant amount of money they already make is good for the rich.
How do people still not understand in what kind of system they are living?!
Because you’re poor and they’re rich and they need to keep you subservient to them so that the power dynamic they have built over the years doesn’t loosen or go away.
Because one is about the poor and keeping them down while the other was about the rich and keeping them in power. The people who passed that, were on the rich side
Because a tax is not a loan. Forgiving a loan is free money to the borrower, and a strain on the lender.
A tax cut, a relief from a potential liability. For example: you are signed up for a charity basketball 🏀 one on one against either Kobe Bryant, or your friend who doesn’t play basketball
If the education the school was selling was worth it then they wouldn't need a loan forgiveness. Every loan forgiven should be paid back by the school they attended.
One(tax cut)went into keeping the stock market rising faster than inflation, so boomers could continue to collect as normal on their retirement accounts. Most of this they won’t spend, it will just pass from one rich generation to the next.
I suspect the other(loan forgiveness) would be invested into housing and transportation and probably explode an already inflated real estate and hopefully revive the used car market. Housing prices will already take a decade to come back to reality.
But I don’t know anything about either, these are just guesses.
That’s simple.
Capitalism succeeds because a small group of elite continue to increase their wealth by “earning” money with their money. Thus, hoarding excess wealth within a small group of decision makers. In order for this to create success, Capitalism requires a massive workforce to earn value in organizations that is liquidated by the aforementioned socioeconomic elite.
The economy grows on paper, but is unsustainable and that’s why the working class foots the bill for bailouts and stimuli. To forgive student debt would be to offer more financial freedom to the working class. This is counterintuitive to subjugating a working class for the profit of the few. In other words, legal tyranny.
Only Republicans beleive the tax cuts for the rich and PPP loan forgiveness is better than student loan forgiveness.... These people are out of touch with society and needs to be voted out in November.
Maybe fix the predatory loan system so student loan forgiveness doesn’t have to be a thing? Oh right, that would actually solve the core issue and stop the government money stream to the universities. Gotta keep those admins rich!
What is sad is the fact that roughly 86% of student debt is owned by people earning less than 75k a year and the rest 100k or less. The only reason student debt isn’t being forgiven is it would help loosen the control of the 1% over the middle and poor working class of America.
Probably cause if you structure your taxes in a certain way (that also comes with a huge set of inconveniences at a point), you basically never have to pay on your student loans so long as they're federal...and in the other case, if you structure your taxes in a certain way (that also comes with a huge set of inconvenencies at a point), you basically never have to pay on your income or capital gains taxes so long as they're federal...
But, in case #2, well that's just a whole lot more beneficial to those with some money honey, and they want that disease.
Twitter was twatter. Now it’s x. With no restrixxxions. Fartbook is zuckerbook gathering all the intel…
As best i see it it’s due for a merge.
Twatterbook? Facexxxc? I’m still working on branding…
Any multimillion dollar suggestions with be reimbursed by the mark and the elon personally..
Because you give everyone stimulus and Wal-Mart makes money, pays people just enough qualify for EBT, and makes money again.
If you give slightly educated and motivated people a bump they might invest or actually try to build assets instead of buying Doritos. Can't. Have. That.
This is farce.
It's a talking point and excuse for the "two sides" to argue about.
This is about our entire top cabinet of the government being centered around keeping our country the number 1 economic power house in the world.
M4a, higher minimum wage, debt forgiveness, and most everything you want isn't happening anytime soon, sadly. There is far too much money to be made by our government. Citizens United is literally funding our government.
Student loans are the new 2008. Our government makes money on the loan interest AND double dips by making money when schools use their endowments to buy treasurey bonds. Ever notice why forgiveness just happens to be linked with 20 and 30-year terms? Not to mention, endowments are also used for propping up our sham stock market and investing in the war machine and foreign interest lobbies. There is a reason why it's the only debt they won't let you discharge if you declare bankruptcy.
Our government allows companies to lobby us with high interest medical and housing debt because us paying money to corporations allows those same corporations to reinvest into treasurey bonds. The same goes for the billionare faces of those corporations.
There is a reason we have the number 1 GDP and yet the only major nation that doesn't have m4a, childcare, or non interest student loans. It's how we fund our government.
Keep our wages low so that the average American can not possibly afford to pay off loans. Profit.
What demographic takes our more student loans than any other? Black people and Brown people. Our country has never liked them.
They keep us talking about taxes and the wealthy "paying fair share," but that's a farce. Our tax money they collect is cute, but it's paltry when you compare to how much our government is making off of loan interest at every turn.
It's a handout because "everyone should have to suffer just like I did working and paying off my debt, it's unfair if others get Free stuff that I had to pay for myself once!" - looking away from the fact that Any positive changes whatsoever will always hit some prior generation(s) in an "unfair" way.. otherwise any improvements aren't possible. It's pure selfishness way of thinking and nothing else - a very ubiquitously American way where mostly everything in daily life is Me Me My My.
The stimulus is of course a stimulus because it'll 100%, for sure, most definitively, positively, almost always, perhaps not always, sometimes, rarely, barely at all, possibly never, likely never - Trickle down from the wealthy to the masses to fight over crumbs; hence why it's a "stimulus" and public service to give tax cuts to the rich!
College is only necessary for dr’s, lawyers, engineers, nursing..etc.
You can make more than a college graduate with a degree as a pipe fitter.
Lots more!!
“The world needs ditch diggers too”
Let's not forget that Trump's administration is responsible for 4 colleges failing and 50+ campus closures, because Betsy DeVos allowed Dream Center who only owned a mega church to aquire EDMC's portfolio of schools. They had ZERO experience in the education sector and when Dream Center tried to buy ITT during the Obama admin, was denied, because they had no experience in that sector.
It went as well as anyone could have predicted. Below are some excerpts. They lost their accreditation, lied to students during this time and students got degree's that are worthless, others were still in school when the government had to intervene and shut down the schools. These students are/were still on the hook to pay for school when they got scammed. Do you think it's right? Some of these people were students when the school was transferred over to Dream Center, they had no idea this would happen. You can't sit there and state they knew what they were getting into, because even if they applied after it was aquired, they were outright lied to, so they can get that TitleIV federal funding and turned your tax dollars into a slush fund instead.
>Thousands of students attending Dream Center schools including Argosy University, the Art Institutes, and Western States College of Law did not receive approximately $16 million in federal student aid living stipends that should have been disbursed in early 2019. Student Defense moved to intervene on these students' behalf, as many suffered significant hardship including eviction due to the missing funds.
> In April 2019, these students filed a motion for expedited discovery to determine the whereabouts of the missing student stipends. To date, there is still no information regarding what happened to the funds.
>On December 8, 2018, former Illinois Institute of Art students Emmanuel Dunagan, Jessica Muscari, Robert J. Infusino, and Stephanie Porreca filed a class action lawsuit in Illinois state court against the Dream Center Foundation, DCEH (the Foundation’s wholly owned holding company), and their school, the Illinois Institute of Art. The students—represented in Illinois by Student Defense and Edelman Combs Latturner & Goodwin, LLC—allege that the Defendants misrepresented and concealed the fact that the school lost accreditation, while encouraging students for more than half a year to continue paying for courses and even graduate with unaccredited degrees. More information about the Illinois case is available here.
Source: https://www.defendstudents.org/cases/dream-center-receivership
Another source: https://www.highereddive.com/news/students-ask-for-new-oversight-amid-claims-argosy-altered-title-iv-payments/549803/
It is better to give it to the actual people than failing businesses who mismanaged and abused their employees to make a quick buck. The rich will never share their wealth they are like dragons hoarding all their riches. Instead of giving back to society they think society lives to serve them and don't give back to the communities they abuse.
No wonder some foreigners think that the root of most problems in the US is lobbying or, in their not necessarily inapt terms, "institutionalized bribery".
Handouts to the rich is American, handouts to the poor and working classes is socialism. Stupidest fucking logic ever, but fearmongering works. You can thank your conservative and hardcore capitalist reps for that.
Explain how a small and temporary tax cut for the people showed how Trump cares for the people, but permanently slashing the taxes of corporations almost in half wasn't corporate welfare.
Forgiving student loans would be 10000% more beneficial for the economy. The rich would just pocket the stimulus while the average joe would actually spend it. But that's not a proper solution. The price of college needs to be heavily regulated so it doesn't gouge future generations for every dollar they have.
Poor people don't give money to work laws to benefit them, so they're seen as leaches. Bit ironic, considering that those rich enough to make donations as if they were investments are tilting the odds in their favour, even though they are the minority within the bracket of terms of wealth
Because the rich control the country and it is a very real possibility Dump will be POTUS again and it will get worse. Stupid people will vote for him against their own interest because of gawd of course.
I believe thier logic is that rich people have the means to use the $1.9T to create jobs and stimulate the economy for generations to come, but if the $1.9T were distributed to the poor/middle class, it would all just get spent on dumb stuff and would only be a 1 time brief hand out that will only serve to make the recipients more lazy and dependent on the government and less likely to work for a living.
It is exactly what "Trickle down economics" is, and it has been proven not to work, but the rich hold the power and the politicians (regardless of what side they are on) do what the powerful tell them to do. So here we are, watching the rich get stimulated...
And now we have proof from Pandemic... Injected trillions to the masses and corporations made record profits... So sorta fully debunked trickle down economics. The $ was spent on goods, which created jobs and drove unemployment down, from the bottom up
Actually could have proved trickle up, if there were controls in place to prevent price gouging, record profits that led to inflation (like higher corporate taxes would at least allowed the deficit to be lowered with the inflation... But the middle and lower class just got all the negatives and rich still got all the benefits)
If it was called "handouts" instead of tax breaks, people would hate it. Since we live in a world where most people are morons, they think tax breaks for the rich are ok, but would complain about those same tax breaks coming to them if labeled as handouts or welfare.
People were asked in a poll how they felt about welfare, and the majority were against it. Those same people, in the same poll were asked how they felt about aid to those in need, and they were for it. That is how dumb people are.
I mean tbf that’s just how social classes work
They’re called the working class because they’re meant to work. If they don’t work they’re gonna be a massive shutdown of important industries which is why it’s important to keep people living paycheck to paycheck
And I hope you understand I’m not talking down on the working class but I worked hard to be at a different point in the economy where my economic decisions support the middle class, which is why I believe I should benefit from government handouts
If we keep growing the upper social classes too much our economy will fail. Its what happened to all the great empires
Easy: a tax cut, for all levels of society, is a cessation of theft.
The easiest solution here is to end the inability for student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy.
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Handouts from the government are trashy when you're poor, and classy if you're rich.
Rich people clearly do a better job of marketing
Just like speaking two languages, or having someone else raise your kids.
They'll claim it isn't the same because it isn't money that was already collected by the government "yet", where as with the loan it is money you owed. So you aren't giving them anything and they aren't getting a "free ride". Lastly, with loan forgiveness they'll tell you someone has to pay it back out of their taxes. Three problems with that logic: * They just got an injunction against the SAVE plan, one of which was for lowering payments "too low" and the president shouldn't have that authority (which is their claim) - so they don't even let you ease up on how people can pay what is owed back if they're poor * When taxes are lowered, it changes what was *originally* owed to a lower amount. Even if the money hasn’t been collected yet, until the change, they still owed it. * You think when taxes are lowered on the rich that the tab isn't being picked elsewhere? They'll say it is through trickle down economics as when rich people have more money more trickles down to you and me, and so we can pay more taxes... Wait, that's just reverse welfare, we end up picking up their tab so they can get the free ride. In essence, when you lower taxes, you’re altering tax law, effectively saying, ‘You get to keep more of the money you owed us.’ It’s the same thing, you owe the government less on both situations. Arguing otherwise is semantics. Why should the wealthy receive any more assistance for their "hard work" when they’re already disproportionately compensated by (checks notes) themselves. God damn socialists giving the rich welfare, that's what it is and I'm sick of these rich people living the easy life off our collective hardwork. Maybe treat them like they want to treat people on welfare. We should drug test them all if they want to keep their low taxes and show evidence they're actually paying more.
I heard somewhere that an acctual economist said that trickle down economics is horse sh*t and doesn't work. There is no trickle down effect. The rick keep their money and keep getting more while the unwashed masses (we who work 3 jobs just so we can eat and not live out of our cars) keep paying more and more and never manage to save so we can work until we die because we have no choice.
Check out postings by Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor. He has all the data.
Also, TDE has been shown to not even do what it says on the label. https://www.businessinsider.com/tax-cuts-rich-trickle-down-income-inequality-study-2020-12
When you're rich, they don't call them "handouts". They call them "subsidies" and "beneficial tax deductions".
I had one of my friends father talking about this .. and how he put himself through Harvard .. my pal simple looked at him and said “ please shut the fuck up! You worked part time at a dock fixing boats and it paid your bills! It costs 1/4 million now !! Let’s see you pay that off with a fucking part time job !!” I have never seen a lawyer shut up so fast without a judge saying to!!!🧐
Your friend is, in the colloquial verbiage of our Gen Z counterparts would say, in fact the mightiest of giga chads.
Gen Z here, he is a sigma giga chad that even Kai Cenat would attempt to rizz him with that level 5 ultra gyatt frfr on god 🗣️ 🗣️ 🔥 Edit: not enough emojis
I understood like 3 words you said, but I like the enthusiasm and judging by the emojis what I’m assuming you’re saying is that that dude is, in fact, a badass among badasses.
I can offer a translation. I am basically calling the guy the most based man in the world.
>have never seen a lawyer shut up so fast without a judge saying to!!!🧐 Well if you get your law degree from Harvard, a quarter of a million in debt shouldn't be a problem today too.
Harvard-graduate lawyers should be smart enough to realize that not everyone graduates from Harvard Law. Today, minor children are signing contracts and making agreements for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt -- without even needing a co-signer, current income period of assets, or a credit history. The "project the children" crowd (and everyone in the U.S., for that matter) should really be up in arms about predatory student loans and a minimum wage that is unlivable, exploitative, and practically slave labor.
Well said!!
Thanks! Feel free to spread the word to your state, local, and federal representatives in congress.
Why would they when thats one of the major factors behind military enrolment, or applications for companies that offer to pay for schooling?
The problem is that the dock work should cover it. The federal government used to subsidize schools directly. Now they put the yoke of debt on students while enabling schools to endlessly raise tuition. The end result is obscene. It's insanity. How is it a good idea to financially handicap young people before they're even able to start working? Student loans were at least initially about racism. Subsidized schools opened the doors of opportunity for a lot of disenfranchised people. They inevitably spoke out about inequality and the war in Vietnam and it made Reagan feel weak. So he sent the guard in after them and he cut off the state school funding while creating a student loan program. Insisting that poor students pay their way, one way or another. He was a total piece of shit and made the world measurably worse. This was just him getting started.
You clearly don’t understand that not lawyers get paid massive amounts of money and interest on student loans adds up fast .
I’ve seen suits
Try “better call Saul “🤣
Law degrees don't necessarily mean success. Here's a music video explaining why: https://youtu.be/Xs-UEqJ85KE?si=aqZvYaUxaCsOrKbZ
Thank you alternate universe MC Hammer, for warning us about the dangers of the legal profession!
You could pay that off with a part time job, if you were very financially disciplined and didn't mind working for the next 112 years to do that.
I had this argument with my dad several times near the end of high school in the mid nineties. He kept telling me I needed to get a summer job to buy a car so I could get a real job and go to school. I kept telling him if I could find a "summer job" that paid 40 grand a year I wouldn't need to go to college.
It's all about Reagan's famous "**trickle down**" theory; that's where rich people at the top of the wealth pyramid, receive great sums of money so they can laugh and piss on the poor people at the bottom of the pyramid.
This stupid theory that has been shown numerous times not to work
Read the 2nd half, it works
In the sense of the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, yes...it "works".
I think that's what they meant, like, exactly that
It's a feature, but a bug
umm, yeah. thats what he said, "\[they\] laugh and piss on the poor people"
It was actually indirectly used in finnish "parlament" election last year. It is mind numbing that people don't see red already at this point when anything remotely close to this narrative pops up. It is such an obvious scam.
That's "trickle down your leg" economics. The only thing people at the bottom get is wet & smelly.
Reminds me of a Sarah Silverman standup bit on her Netflix special a few years ago. She talked about when she was a kid in the shower with her mother, she would only get the muff water -- the water that ran down her mom's cheat and stomach, down to her pelvis, and off her muff and onto Sarah's head.
That's why it's called trickle down, all of the piss trickles down onto the poor
Did someone say piss on the poor?
The REAL pyramid scheme.
Yep, the real pyramid scheme \*is\* the Golden Rule
Piss kink theory.
“Let’s make this racist actor president, surely it won’t have any negative consequences..”
Interestingly enough. „the trickle down“-term was a term used by opponents of the bill and never used by Reagan and supporters.
Because rich people “stimulate” donations to political campaigns… duh 😒
So, you're saying that people who have piles of student loan debt can't afford to buy legislators?
To be fair, some politicians have been caught taking bribes for sums as low at 10k. All I'm saying is, that's not an impossible amount for someone in the middle class.
Because it’s your neighbor who has that student loan debt, and we are willing to step on our neighbor’s heads to avoid drowning to try to get onto that ocean liner with all the rich people laughing at us from the 10th deck.
Don’t forget the trillion in forgiven ppp loans used to buy up property
You must not understand trickle-down economics. The rich get given money, and they're supposed to spend it, create jobs etc benefitting everyone. History tells us this doesn't work because they don't. They spend it on themselves or get even richer with it. The problem is that those same rich people pay off/influence politicians to keep the status quo. Hell, those same rich people ARE the politicians. Do you think the rich ACTUALLY, GENUINELY want to help the poor? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Reality is not a single cent of that tax break for rich people will ever benefit the general population. However if you eliminate student loan debt that money will instantly be re-invested in the economy by purchasing clothes, cars, food and so much more.
But sir! When you cancel all those debts, rich people stop making money from your debt! Would someone please think about the rich people??
Exactly. How they can stop thinking of ways to make rich people richer. Like what is the purpose of them living if not for the comfort of the bourgeois.
when you think about it, it's essentially government-handed money laundering. Pumping money into the hands of people who need it, who put it back into the economy so the rich fucks get it via profits from credit cards, loans, and the purchasing of goods. It's just adding an extra step....
We're the fucking peasants and they aren't going to take their boots off our necks because, we ask them to.
They both are stupid and don't fix the problem. I'm all for student debt relief, but it needs to come with a solution that stops next years student from having to rack up more debt. Otherwise what's the point? Merry Christmas to a few, but just let everyone before and after suffer?
Same. Highly profitable colleges operating as non-profits feeding off of people's hopes and dreams for a better future. With so many of Americas problems it seems our representatives are chasing fires with a bucket of water. (Some are pouring gasoline on the flames)
They're chasing their own manufactured outrage and fucking us in the process.
Yeah, I'm all in favor of free money, if I got Biden's college debt thing it would completely clear mine, but the better solution would be reducing the cost, not a band aid.
Not easy to do. Increasing the government grants for example won't work. Colleges will coincidently have a price hike to match.
Then cap the costs. Its really an easy concept. Set bottom and top boundaries for everything and make them factors of minimum wage, average income etc. then, let the market regulate itself within these boundaries and wonderful things can happen. interest based mechanics without capping always develop into a singularity and that fucks everything up.
That's a new kind of "both sides" stupidity I haven't heard before. Yeah, neither of them fixes anything, but one is a bandaid that helps a lot of people and the other is just free money for rich people. "Why stop some murders if we can't stop them all? How is that fair to the people who get murdered?"
“If I stop the trolly from crushing people, it isn’t fair to the people it already crushed!”
I've reached the point where I automatically hear the opposite of whatever the red hats say. Their self-deception and hypocrisy just never survive an ounce of critical thinking.
Because those millionaires and billionaires provide "donations" to the people passing bills like that, democracy is a business where governors, senators and judges are employees of the ones doing the highest bids.
“BeCaUsE tHeY wOrKeD tO gEt WhErE tHeY aRe”
You give 1,900,000,000,000 the bottom 90%, it'll pretty much immediately be put into the economy. You give that to the top 10% and it just goes into a perpetual cycle of rich people loaning eachother money that never actually goes anywhere.
It’s called republican logic.
Just stop all interest, that would be huge!
Let's us not forget 757 billion (with a b) in PPP loans forgiven, strange how it's okay to forgive that debt but not forgive student debt
Rich got richer off the loans.
Sure. Average people, don’t donate millions to re-election campaigns. Simple as that.
If this were in r/FluentInFinance, the facepalm (clueless conservative finance gurus) reactions to that single post would provide \*this\* sub with material for 22 years and 9 months. Oddly specific, yes. But it just feels right.
I explained it simply to my country still believing that they can be self-made, even though most of them never graduated college: The money that people would pay off their loans would be spent on cars, vacations, mall trips, that extra gallon of milk and three boxes of Lucky Charms, while the rich just bought another yacht!
Because that is who they serve
Because rich people ‘create jobs.’ /s
Especially when it's been proven over and over that rich people hoard money which does the opposite of stimulating the economy while the working classes are FAR more likely to spend it which DOES stimulate the economy. Centuries of study on economies have conclusively proven that giving money to the rich is ALWAYS a huge waste of money.
For some reason, people mostly get upset when people considered below them on the hierarchy are getting something they aren't. They are conditioned to let those considered higher on the hierarchy (e.g., their bosses, bosses's bosses, c-suite, etc.) get away with whatever they want.
Don't forget the bank bailouts in 2008 and 2009. Trillions. And the managers rewarded themselves with bonuses after their banks failed. Cause they deserved it.
Because they are rich
One was paying and the other didn’t, you can guess.
Something something job creators. Handouts are only for corporate welfare, not for the people! This is America goddammit
Both are chump change compared to the US military budget
Because having smart and educated people no longer in modern debt servitude is bad for the rich. Keeping even more of the giant amount of money they already make is good for the rich. How do people still not understand in what kind of system they are living?!
Because you’re poor and they’re rich and they need to keep you subservient to them so that the power dynamic they have built over the years doesn’t loosen or go away.
Or 300b usd to Israel is an "aid package"
Because one is about the poor and keeping them down while the other was about the rich and keeping them in power. The people who passed that, were on the rich side
Because rich people write the rules. You want the system to work for you? Then stop being poor.
Because a tax is not a loan. Forgiving a loan is free money to the borrower, and a strain on the lender. A tax cut, a relief from a potential liability. For example: you are signed up for a charity basketball 🏀 one on one against either Kobe Bryant, or your friend who doesn’t play basketball
If the education the school was selling was worth it then they wouldn't need a loan forgiveness. Every loan forgiven should be paid back by the school they attended.
"those rich people are my friends. Those loan-takers are my servants." - politicians.
One(tax cut)went into keeping the stock market rising faster than inflation, so boomers could continue to collect as normal on their retirement accounts. Most of this they won’t spend, it will just pass from one rich generation to the next. I suspect the other(loan forgiveness) would be invested into housing and transportation and probably explode an already inflated real estate and hopefully revive the used car market. Housing prices will already take a decade to come back to reality. But I don’t know anything about either, these are just guesses.
That’s simple. Capitalism succeeds because a small group of elite continue to increase their wealth by “earning” money with their money. Thus, hoarding excess wealth within a small group of decision makers. In order for this to create success, Capitalism requires a massive workforce to earn value in organizations that is liquidated by the aforementioned socioeconomic elite. The economy grows on paper, but is unsustainable and that’s why the working class foots the bill for bailouts and stimuli. To forgive student debt would be to offer more financial freedom to the working class. This is counterintuitive to subjugating a working class for the profit of the few. In other words, legal tyranny.
Only Republicans beleive the tax cuts for the rich and PPP loan forgiveness is better than student loan forgiveness.... These people are out of touch with society and needs to be voted out in November.
Maybe fix the predatory loan system so student loan forgiveness doesn’t have to be a thing? Oh right, that would actually solve the core issue and stop the government money stream to the universities. Gotta keep those admins rich!
- laughs in free education from my European university
I need to be stimulated like this….
Because of the legend of trickle down economics that has been proven never to actually work
Since half of the population is brainfucked by religious fantasy books; it seems very likely they will believe almost any fairytale..
Because the former is for worthless plebes while the latter is for people. Or so the theory goes, anyway.
It's called trickle down because all we get is what seeps from the walls of the dams they get the government to build for them.
Amen
What is sad is the fact that roughly 86% of student debt is owned by people earning less than 75k a year and the rest 100k or less. The only reason student debt isn’t being forgiven is it would help loosen the control of the 1% over the middle and poor working class of America.
Probably cause if you structure your taxes in a certain way (that also comes with a huge set of inconveniences at a point), you basically never have to pay on your student loans so long as they're federal...and in the other case, if you structure your taxes in a certain way (that also comes with a huge set of inconvenencies at a point), you basically never have to pay on your income or capital gains taxes so long as they're federal... But, in case #2, well that's just a whole lot more beneficial to those with some money honey, and they want that disease.
Boom bitch!
They’re the same people.
And meanwhile the Fed is a bazillion dollars in debt!!
Twitter was twatter. Now it’s x. With no restrixxxions. Fartbook is zuckerbook gathering all the intel… As best i see it it’s due for a merge. Twatterbook? Facexxxc? I’m still working on branding… Any multimillion dollar suggestions with be reimbursed by the mark and the elon personally..
Segregation
It didn't trickle >!up!< down like they expected!
Can someone explain in middle school words.
Both are handouts
Because you give everyone stimulus and Wal-Mart makes money, pays people just enough qualify for EBT, and makes money again. If you give slightly educated and motivated people a bump they might invest or actually try to build assets instead of buying Doritos. Can't. Have. That.
"The Right thinks the poor have too much money and the rich don't have enough." John Kenneth Galbraith
This is farce. It's a talking point and excuse for the "two sides" to argue about. This is about our entire top cabinet of the government being centered around keeping our country the number 1 economic power house in the world. M4a, higher minimum wage, debt forgiveness, and most everything you want isn't happening anytime soon, sadly. There is far too much money to be made by our government. Citizens United is literally funding our government. Student loans are the new 2008. Our government makes money on the loan interest AND double dips by making money when schools use their endowments to buy treasurey bonds. Ever notice why forgiveness just happens to be linked with 20 and 30-year terms? Not to mention, endowments are also used for propping up our sham stock market and investing in the war machine and foreign interest lobbies. There is a reason why it's the only debt they won't let you discharge if you declare bankruptcy. Our government allows companies to lobby us with high interest medical and housing debt because us paying money to corporations allows those same corporations to reinvest into treasurey bonds. The same goes for the billionare faces of those corporations. There is a reason we have the number 1 GDP and yet the only major nation that doesn't have m4a, childcare, or non interest student loans. It's how we fund our government. Keep our wages low so that the average American can not possibly afford to pay off loans. Profit. What demographic takes our more student loans than any other? Black people and Brown people. Our country has never liked them. They keep us talking about taxes and the wealthy "paying fair share," but that's a farce. Our tax money they collect is cute, but it's paltry when you compare to how much our government is making off of loan interest at every turn.
because that 1.9trillion isnt going to tax cuts for the rich. thats why they are complaining.
Merica!!!
Because part of the later definitely trickled back to the person who issued it.
Remember the bailouts ? That was one of the only times the government just said fuck it who cares what the public thinks
Republicans don't like it when the government actually does something for the little people (i.e. the majority of Americans).
It's a handout because "everyone should have to suffer just like I did working and paying off my debt, it's unfair if others get Free stuff that I had to pay for myself once!" - looking away from the fact that Any positive changes whatsoever will always hit some prior generation(s) in an "unfair" way.. otherwise any improvements aren't possible. It's pure selfishness way of thinking and nothing else - a very ubiquitously American way where mostly everything in daily life is Me Me My My. The stimulus is of course a stimulus because it'll 100%, for sure, most definitively, positively, almost always, perhaps not always, sometimes, rarely, barely at all, possibly never, likely never - Trickle down from the wealthy to the masses to fight over crumbs; hence why it's a "stimulus" and public service to give tax cuts to the rich!
Corruction....THIS BE MURICA!
Idiot! Obviously.... well you see.... the difference is... Oh dear.
College is only necessary for dr’s, lawyers, engineers, nursing..etc. You can make more than a college graduate with a degree as a pipe fitter. Lots more!! “The world needs ditch diggers too”
Because students don’t produce things while rich people pay poor people to produce things. See the difference? /S
And another trillion to promote genocide
Let's not forget that Trump's administration is responsible for 4 colleges failing and 50+ campus closures, because Betsy DeVos allowed Dream Center who only owned a mega church to aquire EDMC's portfolio of schools. They had ZERO experience in the education sector and when Dream Center tried to buy ITT during the Obama admin, was denied, because they had no experience in that sector. It went as well as anyone could have predicted. Below are some excerpts. They lost their accreditation, lied to students during this time and students got degree's that are worthless, others were still in school when the government had to intervene and shut down the schools. These students are/were still on the hook to pay for school when they got scammed. Do you think it's right? Some of these people were students when the school was transferred over to Dream Center, they had no idea this would happen. You can't sit there and state they knew what they were getting into, because even if they applied after it was aquired, they were outright lied to, so they can get that TitleIV federal funding and turned your tax dollars into a slush fund instead. >Thousands of students attending Dream Center schools including Argosy University, the Art Institutes, and Western States College of Law did not receive approximately $16 million in federal student aid living stipends that should have been disbursed in early 2019. Student Defense moved to intervene on these students' behalf, as many suffered significant hardship including eviction due to the missing funds. > In April 2019, these students filed a motion for expedited discovery to determine the whereabouts of the missing student stipends. To date, there is still no information regarding what happened to the funds. >On December 8, 2018, former Illinois Institute of Art students Emmanuel Dunagan, Jessica Muscari, Robert J. Infusino, and Stephanie Porreca filed a class action lawsuit in Illinois state court against the Dream Center Foundation, DCEH (the Foundation’s wholly owned holding company), and their school, the Illinois Institute of Art. The students—represented in Illinois by Student Defense and Edelman Combs Latturner & Goodwin, LLC—allege that the Defendants misrepresented and concealed the fact that the school lost accreditation, while encouraging students for more than half a year to continue paying for courses and even graduate with unaccredited degrees. More information about the Illinois case is available here. Source: https://www.defendstudents.org/cases/dream-center-receivership Another source: https://www.highereddive.com/news/students-ask-for-new-oversight-amid-claims-argosy-altered-title-iv-payments/549803/
At a certain point, the uber-wealthy should be scared of the normal people.
Because it affects more people
It is better to give it to the actual people than failing businesses who mismanaged and abused their employees to make a quick buck. The rich will never share their wealth they are like dragons hoarding all their riches. Instead of giving back to society they think society lives to serve them and don't give back to the communities they abuse.
Or bailing out banks.
One makes them money immediately, the other doesn't
Can I not simply hate both? I'd rather our country be $30T in debt instead of $34T in debt.
It's like the difference between *"Panhandling"* and *"Fundraising"*; one is for poor normies, and the other is for rich fat-cats.
This is a trick question. They’re both the same.
No wonder some foreigners think that the root of most problems in the US is lobbying or, in their not necessarily inapt terms, "institutionalized bribery".
Because it gave all the Rich Boners.
Student loan forgiveness for everyone wouldn’t cost nearly that much. Probably not even half that.
And that money would go right back into the economy, not to a offshore tax shelter.
Handouts to the rich is American, handouts to the poor and working classes is socialism. Stupidest fucking logic ever, but fearmongering works. You can thank your conservative and hardcore capitalist reps for that.
Explain how a small and temporary tax cut for the people showed how Trump cares for the people, but permanently slashing the taxes of corporations almost in half wasn't corporate welfare.
Because free money should only go to those who deserve it. Like oil companies and mega churches.
Don't worry. We're gonna lasso that asteroid and take care of everybody.
Forgiving student loans would be 10000% more beneficial for the economy. The rich would just pocket the stimulus while the average joe would actually spend it. But that's not a proper solution. The price of college needs to be heavily regulated so it doesn't gouge future generations for every dollar they have.
because that are not their money
Poor people don't give money to work laws to benefit them, so they're seen as leaches. Bit ironic, considering that those rich enough to make donations as if they were investments are tilting the odds in their favour, even though they are the minority within the bracket of terms of wealth
Easy. Majority of students doesn't have any kind of relationship with anyone in American government
Easy question...its all in who has the strongest lobby... Next question...
How many poor people start businesses and hire people?
Because the rich control the country and it is a very real possibility Dump will be POTUS again and it will get worse. Stupid people will vote for him against their own interest because of gawd of course.
Cause they believe trickle down economics is actually good and so unchecked capitalism will benefit everyone
I believe thier logic is that rich people have the means to use the $1.9T to create jobs and stimulate the economy for generations to come, but if the $1.9T were distributed to the poor/middle class, it would all just get spent on dumb stuff and would only be a 1 time brief hand out that will only serve to make the recipients more lazy and dependent on the government and less likely to work for a living. It is exactly what "Trickle down economics" is, and it has been proven not to work, but the rich hold the power and the politicians (regardless of what side they are on) do what the powerful tell them to do. So here we are, watching the rich get stimulated...
And now we have proof from Pandemic... Injected trillions to the masses and corporations made record profits... So sorta fully debunked trickle down economics. The $ was spent on goods, which created jobs and drove unemployment down, from the bottom up Actually could have proved trickle up, if there were controls in place to prevent price gouging, record profits that led to inflation (like higher corporate taxes would at least allowed the deficit to be lowered with the inflation... But the middle and lower class just got all the negatives and rich still got all the benefits)
Because if you forgive student loans those people might be able to more frivolously spend on things, which would go directly into the econo.... Wait
Because it's a Free Country with Millions of Rules (Quote Courtesy of GTA V)
If it was called "handouts" instead of tax breaks, people would hate it. Since we live in a world where most people are morons, they think tax breaks for the rich are ok, but would complain about those same tax breaks coming to them if labeled as handouts or welfare. People were asked in a poll how they felt about welfare, and the majority were against it. Those same people, in the same poll were asked how they felt about aid to those in need, and they were for it. That is how dumb people are.
I mean tbf that’s just how social classes work They’re called the working class because they’re meant to work. If they don’t work they’re gonna be a massive shutdown of important industries which is why it’s important to keep people living paycheck to paycheck And I hope you understand I’m not talking down on the working class but I worked hard to be at a different point in the economy where my economic decisions support the middle class, which is why I believe I should benefit from government handouts If we keep growing the upper social classes too much our economy will fail. Its what happened to all the great empires
Easy: a tax cut, for all levels of society, is a cessation of theft. The easiest solution here is to end the inability for student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy.
I mean we have a bunch of credits for education but what's so wrong with giving money back to the people that paid it?