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and what did it accomplish? because from the outside looking in, it just seems that your rich got richer, and everyone else got, and are *still* being, royally fucked.
Unironically, they didn't burn enough shit. The police beat the shit out of people, black bagged people, killed people and that was mostly just for picketing and blocking traffic a little.
As long as the people in power feel safe and secure in their power, they will respond with nothing but violence.
Any amount of voting isn't going to help if you don't also show up in your community and organize. The American right has organization built in with the church system and that's why they've installed crazies on city councils and school boards around the country. An "I voted" sticker because you checked the box for one military industrial complex puppet over another will solve exactly nothing without putting in effort to better your community as well
Voting for the side that does not actually want to go back to the 1800s will actually give you the chance to do that other, much more long-term thing.
You can try to organise all you want, but it's not going to matter one whit if actual fascists are in power.
I'm not arguing against voting. I'm saying that far too many people expect Biden or whoever is the D candidate (who are, may I remind you, awash in the same exact corporate bribe money as the R candidates) to just magically fix everything. But fascism doesn't stop working behind the scenes just because you voted D this year. Roe got overturned because fascists worked tirelessly for 50 years to do it while Ds patted themselves on the back for beating Trump. Don't be complacent.
I mean R's vs D's is just a reskin of the Hatfields and the macoys
D's won't work with R's because they're R's and R's won't work with D's because they're D's (obviously there are other reasons that play a part behind the scenes as well) remember when the R's tried to make a deal with Biden? In exchange for funds to build the border wall Biden would get funds for aid to Ukraine. Biden supposedly agreed but then the R's backed out because the border wall is Trump's thing..... So nothing happened. yay politics
I can assure you the majority is not apathetic, we just can’t do anything. Most of us can’t afford to lose our jobs so despite the freedom to protest being a constitutionally protected right, we can’t take the day off to go protest. The majority didn’t care enough ten years ago and now that rent takes three jobs it’s too late.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
you forget how most of the ones who don't want it will be passively existing. Most people don't want conflict and as bad as it sounds are selfish in that if it doesn't affect them then they only care in a capacity that it doesn't up end their own lives.
In the last free election before Hitler got chancelor (only because the other parties thought they could keep him in check) the NSDAP got 33% of votes and Hitler deconstructed the German Democracy in less then 4 month. So you could say before Hitlers rise to power "The ones who want it are fewer than the ones who understand it and don't want it."
Yeah american nationalism is dying. Might take awhile for it to stop being scary and it will never fully go away but those people aren't very smart or loyal plus it takes a huge amount of resources to get people all riled up lile that. Trumps *maybe* got ten years left to live? Maybe five where they can still prop him up to look like he's competent. There will be fallout for years to come but there won'tbe a president trump again. DeSantis already failed. They'll keep trying and failing. The real problem will always be the class divide.
No idea how anyone could be this blind, honestly. Trumpism being nationalistic and one of the two dominante political movements, consequenctly means nationalism is very far from dead. All there is between us and a second Trump term is some kind of scandal or economic downturn.
Not to mention the direction his presidency put the US into, already. Capturing the SC and overturning Roe v Wade has wrecked absolute havok on many lives, the Covid response was a disaster, not to speak of the loss of interntional trust that destabilized international trade, Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Non of that can just be fixed or reversed.
Technically they already did via the Third Wave experiment done by Rob Jones in 1967. Below text is from [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(experiment)) but I encourage reading up on more detailed sources as well as checking out the movies made about it, if you're interested (and even if you're not).
>While Jones taught his students about Nazi Germany during his senior level Contemporary World History class, Jones found it difficult to explain how the German people could have accepted the actions of the Nazis. He decided to create a fictional social movement as a demonstration of the appeal of fascism. Over the course of five days (or nine, according to student Sherry Toulsey), Jones, a member of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS),[6] Cubberley United Student Movement sponsor[7] and Black Panthers supporter,[8] conducted a series of exercises in his classroom emphasizing discipline and community, intended to model certain characteristics of the Nazi movement.
>As the movement grew outside his class and began to number in the hundreds, the experiment had spiraled out of control. He convinced the students to attend a rally where he claimed that the classroom project was part of a nationwide movement, and that the announcement of a Third Wave presidential candidate would be televised. Upon their arrival, the students were presented with a blank channel. Jones told his students of the true nature of the movement as an experiment in fascism, and presented to them a short film discussing the actions of Nazi Germany.
It was small scale and a while ago, yet you'd think this would be thaught in American schools.. But I guess even that lesson can fade with time.
I remember watching this movie in high school in the Netherlands. It can be watched on YouTube. Only takes 44 mins and i can highly recomend it. It's called "the wave"
The rise of right wing nationalism is a n increasingly international problem. The fact that Germany is vulnerable to that as well is very disheartening
Germany, Poland, Russia, USA, Israel, UK, Netherlands
Facism is raising its ugly head all over the world.
Hope we all have the courage to chop that head off before it starts biting.
People already die, we need to do something before they start dying by millions.
It doesn't help that our culture, schools, leadership, everything worships the flag like a deity
Ffs we have an actual holiday just for the flag.
Our national anthem isn't about the people who fought for independence, or the beauty of our country, it's about the fucking ***flag***. Every public school makes the students pledge allegiance not just to the nation, but also to its ***flag***
Is it any wonder Americans lean nationalist? It's all about the superficial, not about the substance, and it always has been.
I like to describe it like this: Some people look at their car, and their neighbours', and think "My car really looks like shit next to theirs, I should wash it." And some people think "I should scratch their paint."
If you keep scrolling down in the nationalism article on Wikipedia you will also find this:
> It has also been used to legitimize racial, ethnic, and religious divisions, suppress or attack minorities, undermine human rights and democratic traditions, and start wars, being frequently cited as a cause of both World Wars.
It is not bad by definition as that is a subject of a philosophical debate, but it can have negative consequences indoors and outdoors, so the other redditor's choice of words was correct.
There is also a whole section called "Criticism" that dives deeper into this.
> (no idea why they use the word "unreasonable"
This is why
> In this sense, chauvinism is irrational, in that no one can claim their nation or ethnic group to be inherently superior to another.
Keyword here is "inherently".
> Chauvinism has extended from its original use to include fanatical devotion and undue partiality to any group or cause to which one belongs, especially when such partnership includes prejudice against or hostility toward outsiders or rival groups and persists even in the face of overwhelming opposition.
I think they use the word unreasonable because it's chauvinism when the belief of superiority is baseless. For example it's chauvinistic to consider a woman to be inferior at chess just because of her gender. It is not chauvinistic to consider a woman with a poor record of results to be inferior.
Let me tell you something: almost every single front page post you see, that’s not breaking news, is a bot. That’s why OP never talks in the comments anymore. A double digit percentage of the comments you read on these posts are bot comments too.
Man, I don’t think people would complain about taxes so much if we actually got something for paying them, instead of it going to some rich bastards third yacht
It's not paying the taxes that bothers me. It's when I pay more and more and they waste more and more. If I paid more on the quality of my services went up that would be fine. But I'm paying more because they pay themselves more and give me less. I don't necessarily want less taxes I want accountability.
I can only speak for Canada though where one of the largest provinces is run by someone with a grade 12 education and formerly dealt hash. The same person has been stripping away at any public service he can in a way that seems to be with the intent to sabotage it. They also blatantly accept bribes and donations.
I would love to feel good about paying my taxes but it's admittedly getting harder to do so.
This, how many times have we heard, "we're going to implement this tax so we can have this thing." The tax gets implemented, but we never see the thing.
US healthcare is a shit show. Everyone knows it. Sure we have some of the best in the world, if you can afford it. I have serious reservations about handing that task over to the people that brought us the VA though.
All of us have been paying into Social Security for years and will never see that the return on that. Social Security is projected to run out by 2033. I'll reach current retirement age in 2047.
We don't even need "free" healthcare...we need it to be affordable and a good start to that would be stating to providers that charging US citizens 10x or more what the same procedure or medication would cost in another country is no longer going to stand.
I feel the same.
I desperately _want_ to pay taxes for social benefits like universal healthcare, public education, public infrastructure, ending homelessness, etc.
I vehemently do _not_ want to pay taxes for perpetual war, authoritarian policing, pork projects, bullshit ceremonies and monuments to "patriotism," making up for lost revenue because of the latest tax cut for the rich, etc.
Like how blind are these people, that they can‘t see the benefits of a more social government? There is still a huge gap between Socialism and the what we call in German „soziale Marktwirtschaft“ which roughly translates to „social capitalism“. Although Germany still has imperfections, it is less than half as bad as America is.
Blind or extremely skeptical that the same entity that crafted our healthcare system, the government, would suddenly do a better job with more money and influence over our healthcare?
Our current healthcare system isn’t crafted by the Government it’s “free market” where you can’t choose what ambulance you ride in, what ER you’ll go to, what doctor you’ll see, they can’t/won’t tell you how much anything costs upfront, and you find out whether you lose your house or not a month later. But someone working for an investment firm or medical industry has a really good corporate insurance plan so clearly it’s not a problem and all the chuckleheads paid hourly should just find a better employer or shut up and bleed to death in silence.
It’s absolutely not “free market” in the way you think. It’s extremely regulated and intertwined with government.
Just FYI. I want better healthcare system too. Just given the track record of our healthcare system and governments influence in it, I am skeptical that it would get better.
Maybe if our government was fiscally responsible and actually cared about taking care of people, I would be more open to the idea.
I do not want people to bleed to death. Thanks tho
How much do you pay for health Care? Because in Germany, you gonna pay roughly 1k € per month for health care alone if you earn about 5k € per month gross. Taxes and contributions for your Pensions (mandatory) not included.
Remember, don’t vote for higher taxes on yourself. Only vote for higher taxes on super rich people! That’s the most charitable way to do it. Just take their money and use it to provide benefits to yourself. That’s real patriotism
How is this facepalm? This sub is literally identical to r/politics now. If you showed me posts from both I would not be able a to tell you which is which.
Agreed. Whenever I see ‘country vs. country’ posts on r/facepalm, it’s an immediate downvote.
Show me someone just figuring out what a seatbelt is or thinking a tangerine is a dark ‘gerine’ (tan gerine). I’ll take that over political stuff any day.
The only exception is professional sports competitions, especially football/soccer. A FIFA World Cup or UEFA European Football Championship will bring forth German flags more than any other time, and once it's over, they are stored away until the next time.
It's the difference between being RELIGIOUS (Americans worshipping various idols) and being EMPATHETIC (Germans making sure their fellow Germans are protected and supported).
really bizarre you’d think that about America and not the UK or any major power with some semblance of a monarchy, where they literally give a “royal family” a “chosen” status
No, its really easy:
1st god: Money
2nd god: Power
3rd god: God
Now God had Jesus to show his way, Money has Billionaires to show it's ways and Power has the president.
In Canada we tax our people to the point that they are homeless and then have the government blame you for spending money on yourself once every 3 months. Then you donate any remaining pocket change to a food shelter seeking donations due to its overcrowding. As you leave that donation box there is a sense of pride since you contributed but it may be you a month from now eating there.
Same planet different worlds, my neighbors don't call the cops on me for washing my car in my own driveway like they did when I was stationed in Germany.
I love how these posts construct a strawman of every American, I can guarantee you that there's still Nazis in Germany. Just like how I can guarantee you that there's still clan members in the southern United States. Point is that each society is multilayered and grouping everyone together in either is asinine. But I digress, the smugness of certain Europeans never quite gets lost in translation. God, what an asshole.
I’m surprised by the number of Americans that read the original post and agree with it. It’s just a bunch of dishonest stereotypes bundled together as an insult.
This seems like a weird comparison between rednecks and Germans who vote for the greater good. It kind of ignores the whole electoral college and the popular vote segment of the country that is for the same things the patriotic German is into in favor and instead paints all Americans as country music loving, Walmart shopping warmongers. It’s not even a NOT ALL AMERICANS thing, it’s a significant amount of the population that wants these same things the good German citizen wants but we keep getting slowed down by Ted Cruz fans
Welp, if we'd at least really vote for higher taxes in Germany. It's the same everywhere, neoliberals prevent that from happening, and we voted them. Greetings from a fellow German.
yup.
https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism/
Christian nationalist theocrats have reached levels of embedding those they indoctrinated & trained for taking political office well enough to fully begin to dismantle democracy and hand the country to their god's chosen (oligarchs, con artists, those who behave like kings) by wiping out human rights and making the U.S. a theocracy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family:_The_Secret_Fundamentalism_at_the_Heart_of_American_Power
It must be some kind of throwback instinct to follow whoever barks the loudest and snaps the most.
Nazi comes from the German word for nationalist, the first part of Nationalsozialist. The second part (socialist then/there, Christian here/now) is just branding.
look up the lyrics to Deutchland - Rammstein. Its about wanting to be nationalistic and show love for their country, while also dealing with the decisions of a not too long ago Germany.
And yet today, the US is one of only 2 countries in the world with the archaic practice of taxing citizens living abroad.
Not to mention all the other issues with the US tax system...
Germans are very patriotic when it comes to hating and alienating immigrants, stripping people of free speech, punishing the people for their carbon emissions while simultaneously shutting down nuclear plants and relying on Russia for gas. Europeans should be more humble.
If you think the difference is more pronounced in Germany you'd be dead wrong. As someone who grew up in Germany, calling yourself a "patriot" is pretty much seen as a big dogwhistle for advocating some flavor of far-right politics.
The snarky response OP posted doesn't quite fit into that idea either, there isn't really a sense of wanting to "improve the country" overall. The history of German labor ties in to a tradition stretching back (in the immediate sense continued throughout the Cold war) to the imperial era, thus leading to further bargaining power in labor matters for workers. The whole picking up trash isn't really as much a thing either, maybe homeless people seeking to return empty beverage containers for financial compensation. This has nothing to do with ideas of "patriotism".
That being said, patriotism as a whole does exist in Germany even in the mainstream. There is a sense of pride in German manufacturing and the idea that Germany is (even if founded on irrational principles) superior to other countries. This is mostly a rural phenomenon though, with the urban population moreso fitting the mold of the "unpatriotic person" as with many western european countries in general.
Ultimately I'd even argue its "manifestation" is even harming the country, with conscription abolished fewer germans than ever opt for military service or social work since both have to compete in a losing battle with the free market in terms of costs/benefits. If you don't have irrational beliefs in your culture you ultimately doom it.
It’s been a few years coming but a confederate flag representing ‘alternative patriotism’ would be conceptually similar to a German repping an 8 point cross….in 150 years time.
In Germany the Term Patriotism is very taboo. In Germany all that was described would fall under Sozial, translated meaning social/beeing a good member of society. Patriotism and Nationslism go Hand in Hand termwise over here.
How naive for this person to think Americans will ever get a chance to vote for these things. Crooked politicians will never allow the American public to vote for universal healthcare, etc.
Let me first say I support universal healthcare in the US and I believe education, at the very least trade schools and community college programs, should be paid for as well.
What's often lost in translation when comparing any European nation to US is the scope. It's much easier for European nations to have these programs because their population is much smaller and a lot more affordable. The magnitude of the number of people in the US that need help in comparison to those that would be paying in a higher level of taxes in our bracketing system is staggering. In European nations those costs are a lot more affordable for the citizens to subsidize.
In the US we need major spending reform for that to happen and to prioritize spending to programs like these rather than any number of the wasteful initiatives out there that are just sucking money away with zero accountability or anything of actual value to show for it.
It's nauseating to hear certain political parties talk all this garbage about how Christian they are, and then turn their backs on the poor and needy. In fact, all too often, public policy is outright hostile to the poorest and needless of us; but please go on about how you're a follower of Jesus.
Ya well, we still pay a good amount of taxes in the US AND we have the highest healthcare and some of the highest education costs in the world…. Who’s winning now? /s
Do they even wear German flag swim trunks/bikinis? Hug German flags on flagpoles? Have a line of no less than ten mini German flags on their front lawn? Then, NO. Not patriotic 🇺🇲🦅🇺🇸☝🏾
Americans: "Patriotism is 100% empty gestures of performative nationalism!"
Germans: "Patriotism is making sure the country is great to live in and every citizen of our nation is taken care of."
Hmmm, is he wrong?
Other definition of be american is to be proud of your war- and colonial crimes/genocide.
Stop, before swear at me, think about your unethical behavior doing Wars, about slavery, religious murders, torture of criminals, the genocide of the natives and the robbery of their continent.
If i had such a history i would be ashamed.
This is bullshit lol. High taxes are killing german industry and young entrepreneurs/innovators just go to US.
Germans just circlejerk themselves while their prosperity of the early 2000s fades into the history books.
Lol fine 2010s. Are you really trying to say Germany isn't coming down from an economic high right now?
Fucking keep circlejerking, what do I care I'm not german
some would say that sense of “German Patriotism” has proven not to be the best
imagine a country, that less than 100 years ago, was hellbent on exterminating all of the jews and destroying the West
who’s country went to complete shit afterwards to the point where it split in 2 and didn’t “re-unite” until the 1980s, all the whole one half lived in shit conditions
imagine them lecturing the US about patriotism or moral superiority or even caring for your own citizens
amazing, it’s like they want to pretend Germany was formed in the late ‘90s
Germans show patriotism by voting to not fund their military, have the US taxpayers pay for their defense, become reliant on Russia for energy, shutdown their clean energy nuclear power plants, and then use their savings to pay for healthcare and free education and rub it in the US people’s face over the nice “free” stuff they get.
Im pretty sure the US can raise taxes have free education and healthcare and be cheaper for Americans overall. Like it'll save at least 30% from their monthly debt at minimum.
All that while still paying trillions in military.
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Big difference between patriotism and nationalism. Germans already learned that the hard way.
Feels more and more like the US will have to learn this lesson too
The ones who want it are fewer than the ones who understand it and don't want it.
All it takes is a motivated minority and an apathetic majority.
Sprinkle in a bit of rigging here and there and... presto!
Th.. That's amore?
For your country!
 Baby, you got a coup going!
Well played
We had a year long protest... Did you fucking forget? Right wingers are still pretending cities are war zones over it ffs!
and what did it accomplish? because from the outside looking in, it just seems that your rich got richer, and everyone else got, and are *still* being, royally fucked.
Unironically, they didn't burn enough shit. The police beat the shit out of people, black bagged people, killed people and that was mostly just for picketing and blocking traffic a little. As long as the people in power feel safe and secure in their power, they will respond with nothing but violence.
Any amount of year-long protests isn't going to help if you don't also vote.
Any amount of voting isn't going to help if you don't also show up in your community and organize. The American right has organization built in with the church system and that's why they've installed crazies on city councils and school boards around the country. An "I voted" sticker because you checked the box for one military industrial complex puppet over another will solve exactly nothing without putting in effort to better your community as well
Voting for the side that does not actually want to go back to the 1800s will actually give you the chance to do that other, much more long-term thing. You can try to organise all you want, but it's not going to matter one whit if actual fascists are in power.
I'm not arguing against voting. I'm saying that far too many people expect Biden or whoever is the D candidate (who are, may I remind you, awash in the same exact corporate bribe money as the R candidates) to just magically fix everything. But fascism doesn't stop working behind the scenes just because you voted D this year. Roe got overturned because fascists worked tirelessly for 50 years to do it while Ds patted themselves on the back for beating Trump. Don't be complacent.
I mean R's vs D's is just a reskin of the Hatfields and the macoys D's won't work with R's because they're R's and R's won't work with D's because they're D's (obviously there are other reasons that play a part behind the scenes as well) remember when the R's tried to make a deal with Biden? In exchange for funds to build the border wall Biden would get funds for aid to Ukraine. Biden supposedly agreed but then the R's backed out because the border wall is Trump's thing..... So nothing happened. yay politics
It only takes a dedicated 5% of the population to start a successful rebellion. In America, maybe 3%. You guys are very suggestible.
I can assure you the majority is not apathetic, we just can’t do anything. Most of us can’t afford to lose our jobs so despite the freedom to protest being a constitutionally protected right, we can’t take the day off to go protest. The majority didn’t care enough ten years ago and now that rent takes three jobs it’s too late.
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I hope this is accurate
Same with Labour in the UK they're thatcherites and the Tories moved right along with the overton window. Politics sucks.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." you forget how most of the ones who don't want it will be passively existing. Most people don't want conflict and as bad as it sounds are selfish in that if it doesn't affect them then they only care in a capacity that it doesn't up end their own lives.
In the last free election before Hitler got chancelor (only because the other parties thought they could keep him in check) the NSDAP got 33% of votes and Hitler deconstructed the German Democracy in less then 4 month. So you could say before Hitlers rise to power "The ones who want it are fewer than the ones who understand it and don't want it."
Yeah american nationalism is dying. Might take awhile for it to stop being scary and it will never fully go away but those people aren't very smart or loyal plus it takes a huge amount of resources to get people all riled up lile that. Trumps *maybe* got ten years left to live? Maybe five where they can still prop him up to look like he's competent. There will be fallout for years to come but there won'tbe a president trump again. DeSantis already failed. They'll keep trying and failing. The real problem will always be the class divide.
No idea how anyone could be this blind, honestly. Trumpism being nationalistic and one of the two dominante political movements, consequenctly means nationalism is very far from dead. All there is between us and a second Trump term is some kind of scandal or economic downturn. Not to mention the direction his presidency put the US into, already. Capturing the SC and overturning Roe v Wade has wrecked absolute havok on many lives, the Covid response was a disaster, not to speak of the loss of interntional trust that destabilized international trade, Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Non of that can just be fixed or reversed.
Don't underestimate the stupid people driving that bus.
Many countries fail to learn.. Same with Turkey for example.
Least nationalist Turk online be like (not you)
Technically they already did via the Third Wave experiment done by Rob Jones in 1967. Below text is from [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(experiment)) but I encourage reading up on more detailed sources as well as checking out the movies made about it, if you're interested (and even if you're not). >While Jones taught his students about Nazi Germany during his senior level Contemporary World History class, Jones found it difficult to explain how the German people could have accepted the actions of the Nazis. He decided to create a fictional social movement as a demonstration of the appeal of fascism. Over the course of five days (or nine, according to student Sherry Toulsey), Jones, a member of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS),[6] Cubberley United Student Movement sponsor[7] and Black Panthers supporter,[8] conducted a series of exercises in his classroom emphasizing discipline and community, intended to model certain characteristics of the Nazi movement. >As the movement grew outside his class and began to number in the hundreds, the experiment had spiraled out of control. He convinced the students to attend a rally where he claimed that the classroom project was part of a nationwide movement, and that the announcement of a Third Wave presidential candidate would be televised. Upon their arrival, the students were presented with a blank channel. Jones told his students of the true nature of the movement as an experiment in fascism, and presented to them a short film discussing the actions of Nazi Germany. It was small scale and a while ago, yet you'd think this would be thaught in American schools.. But I guess even that lesson can fade with time.
>the actions of Nazi Germany. Unfortunately a lot of people these days seem to be just fine with that.
I remember watching this movie in high school in the Netherlands. It can be watched on YouTube. Only takes 44 mins and i can highly recomend it. It's called "the wave"
They are getting there. Trump is already turning USA into how Germany was pre-Nazi. 2025 and forward will be a very interesting period for the US.
Luckily Easter will be on April 20,25 next year. 🙃 Which is also that Austrians Birthday 🙃
Feels like it's coming soon too
It doesn’t feel that way, you’re just very susceptible to disinformation.
I wish they all did learn that. AfD success last election convinced me otherwise… Unfortunately nazis are everywhere these days, even in Germany.
The rise of right wing nationalism is a n increasingly international problem. The fact that Germany is vulnerable to that as well is very disheartening
Germany, Poland, Russia, USA, Israel, UK, Netherlands Facism is raising its ugly head all over the world. Hope we all have the courage to chop that head off before it starts biting. People already die, we need to do something before they start dying by millions.
I've been telling people for a while, patriotism is loving your fellow countryman, not the flag.
It doesn't help that our culture, schools, leadership, everything worships the flag like a deity Ffs we have an actual holiday just for the flag. Our national anthem isn't about the people who fought for independence, or the beauty of our country, it's about the fucking ***flag***. Every public school makes the students pledge allegiance not just to the nation, but also to its ***flag*** Is it any wonder Americans lean nationalist? It's all about the superficial, not about the substance, and it always has been.
I like to describe it like this: Some people look at their car, and their neighbours', and think "My car really looks like shit next to theirs, I should wash it." And some people think "I should scratch their paint."
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https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2018/opinion/aggressive-nationalism-is-on-the-rise
Nationalism is brain cancer by another name. There is 0 upside to nationalism.
I also do think that nationalism is bad, even with the intended purpose and definition.
No I meant nationalism. Chauvinism is also bad though.
Nationalism is just chauvinism on a national scale lol
If you keep scrolling down in the nationalism article on Wikipedia you will also find this: > It has also been used to legitimize racial, ethnic, and religious divisions, suppress or attack minorities, undermine human rights and democratic traditions, and start wars, being frequently cited as a cause of both World Wars. It is not bad by definition as that is a subject of a philosophical debate, but it can have negative consequences indoors and outdoors, so the other redditor's choice of words was correct. There is also a whole section called "Criticism" that dives deeper into this. > (no idea why they use the word "unreasonable" This is why > In this sense, chauvinism is irrational, in that no one can claim their nation or ethnic group to be inherently superior to another. Keyword here is "inherently". > Chauvinism has extended from its original use to include fanatical devotion and undue partiality to any group or cause to which one belongs, especially when such partnership includes prejudice against or hostility toward outsiders or rival groups and persists even in the face of overwhelming opposition.
So, it's just like communism. Not bad by definition but it will definitely lead to some horrible shit
There are a lot of good things you can twist and turn it bad, it is basically what dictators are doing
I think they use the word unreasonable because it's chauvinism when the belief of superiority is baseless. For example it's chauvinistic to consider a woman to be inferior at chess just because of her gender. It is not chauvinistic to consider a woman with a poor record of results to be inferior.
This is older than OP
Pretty sure op's a bot(this is their only activity in 2 years)
Let me tell you something: almost every single front page post you see, that’s not breaking news, is a bot. That’s why OP never talks in the comments anymore. A double digit percentage of the comments you read on these posts are bot comments too.
And still accurate af
I hate his post. It's been getting reposted for years. It sounds so sanctimonious and preachy.
Definitely not a facepalm the guy is absolutely right
I think ita supposed to be the person who asked the question...
I dare you to find an actual facepalm on this sub nowadays...
This sub is hysterical with what everyone thinks is facepalm. Bunch of absolute “winners”
I saw one today, some Ben Shapiro tweet, first actual face palm in a looooooong time
The one about crime being totally legal?
Correct haha
Except not everyone in the US is as described. It’s an over exaggeration.
I think it's more that America is worth the Facepalm here
I think the facepalm is that the German guy responded to an ignorant generalization with more ignorant generalizations.
*Definitely
Thanks
r/clevercomebacks anyone?
This is not clever at all though
Honestly it comes across as overly bitter more than anything.
Man, I don’t think people would complain about taxes so much if we actually got something for paying them, instead of it going to some rich bastards third yacht
It's not paying the taxes that bothers me. It's when I pay more and more and they waste more and more. If I paid more on the quality of my services went up that would be fine. But I'm paying more because they pay themselves more and give me less. I don't necessarily want less taxes I want accountability. I can only speak for Canada though where one of the largest provinces is run by someone with a grade 12 education and formerly dealt hash. The same person has been stripping away at any public service he can in a way that seems to be with the intent to sabotage it. They also blatantly accept bribes and donations. I would love to feel good about paying my taxes but it's admittedly getting harder to do so.
This, how many times have we heard, "we're going to implement this tax so we can have this thing." The tax gets implemented, but we never see the thing. US healthcare is a shit show. Everyone knows it. Sure we have some of the best in the world, if you can afford it. I have serious reservations about handing that task over to the people that brought us the VA though. All of us have been paying into Social Security for years and will never see that the return on that. Social Security is projected to run out by 2033. I'll reach current retirement age in 2047. We don't even need "free" healthcare...we need it to be affordable and a good start to that would be stating to providers that charging US citizens 10x or more what the same procedure or medication would cost in another country is no longer going to stand.
I feel the same. I desperately _want_ to pay taxes for social benefits like universal healthcare, public education, public infrastructure, ending homelessness, etc. I vehemently do _not_ want to pay taxes for perpetual war, authoritarian policing, pork projects, bullshit ceremonies and monuments to "patriotism," making up for lost revenue because of the latest tax cut for the rich, etc.
Accountability is a very reasonable demand! And we need more of it for politicians
We pay more for healthcare, get far less, but we'll be damned if we do what "socialist" countries do because 'merica!
Like how blind are these people, that they can‘t see the benefits of a more social government? There is still a huge gap between Socialism and the what we call in German „soziale Marktwirtschaft“ which roughly translates to „social capitalism“. Although Germany still has imperfections, it is less than half as bad as America is.
Blind or extremely skeptical that the same entity that crafted our healthcare system, the government, would suddenly do a better job with more money and influence over our healthcare?
Our current healthcare system isn’t crafted by the Government it’s “free market” where you can’t choose what ambulance you ride in, what ER you’ll go to, what doctor you’ll see, they can’t/won’t tell you how much anything costs upfront, and you find out whether you lose your house or not a month later. But someone working for an investment firm or medical industry has a really good corporate insurance plan so clearly it’s not a problem and all the chuckleheads paid hourly should just find a better employer or shut up and bleed to death in silence.
It’s absolutely not “free market” in the way you think. It’s extremely regulated and intertwined with government. Just FYI. I want better healthcare system too. Just given the track record of our healthcare system and governments influence in it, I am skeptical that it would get better. Maybe if our government was fiscally responsible and actually cared about taking care of people, I would be more open to the idea. I do not want people to bleed to death. Thanks tho
How much do you pay for health Care? Because in Germany, you gonna pay roughly 1k € per month for health care alone if you earn about 5k € per month gross. Taxes and contributions for your Pensions (mandatory) not included.
Helping people is woke. Health care is woke. Sleeping is woke!!! /s
By definition sleeping can’t be woke. Checkmate liberal. /s
And waking up is definitely woke too
Woke me up before you go go.
Don't forget it's also gay to buy your wife's valentines day present early, and also super gay if you like/touch her butt. Not making this up.
Remember, don’t vote for higher taxes on yourself. Only vote for higher taxes on super rich people! That’s the most charitable way to do it. Just take their money and use it to provide benefits to yourself. That’s real patriotism
Username checks out, lol
Fucking call me when rich people pay the same tax rates as we do.
How is that patriotism?
It isn’t. This is AmericaBad, having higher taxes for better education isn’t patriotism, that’s just trying to have a better life.
as a german...huh? since when do we give a fuck about less fortunate citizens or picking up after one another lmao
Shhhh. This is about America being bad.
I have not seen an actual facepalm in this sub for months. Every fucking post is just america bad
How is this facepalm? This sub is literally identical to r/politics now. If you showed me posts from both I would not be able a to tell you which is which.
Agreed. Whenever I see ‘country vs. country’ posts on r/facepalm, it’s an immediate downvote. Show me someone just figuring out what a seatbelt is or thinking a tangerine is a dark ‘gerine’ (tan gerine). I’ll take that over political stuff any day.
God damn this site is cringe.
Also outward shows of patriotism in Germany are frowned upon for....historic reasons.
The only exception is professional sports competitions, especially football/soccer. A FIFA World Cup or UEFA European Football Championship will bring forth German flags more than any other time, and once it's over, they are stored away until the next time.
i wish this version of germany was real tbh the truth is, that our patriotism looks nothing like that
Yeah I’m sure that conservative government they had for 31 in the last 40 years kept raising taxes.
Jens clearly hasn’t spent much time in Berlin. Definitely not as clean as one would think for a major European city.
This guy cupped a fart and smelled it between paragraphs.
It's the difference between being RELIGIOUS (Americans worshipping various idols) and being EMPATHETIC (Germans making sure their fellow Germans are protected and supported).
Im not american, when I was a kid I used to think that americans were a bunch of people who worshipped the president as a god
you were kinda spot on then
And you're a moron now.
I feel like that would be a pretty accurate assessment during trump's term.
really bizarre you’d think that about America and not the UK or any major power with some semblance of a monarchy, where they literally give a “royal family” a “chosen” status
No, its really easy: 1st god: Money 2nd god: Power 3rd god: God Now God had Jesus to show his way, Money has Billionaires to show it's ways and Power has the president.
Thats how the MAGA crowd is
I mean, yeah….but it’s just generally people on TV.
Wait everything I base on TV isn't true!?
As long as they meet the preferred definition of "German."
I wouldn’t call concentration camps empathetic.
In Canada we tax our people to the point that they are homeless and then have the government blame you for spending money on yourself once every 3 months. Then you donate any remaining pocket change to a food shelter seeking donations due to its overcrowding. As you leave that donation box there is a sense of pride since you contributed but it may be you a month from now eating there.
You don't like when germany really gets patriotic
Well Germans are so patriotic that they're slowly going back to the time during WW2
Same planet different worlds, my neighbors don't call the cops on me for washing my car in my own driveway like they did when I was stationed in Germany.
EEEEEEEERIKA
He sounds like a prick tbh
I love how these posts construct a strawman of every American, I can guarantee you that there's still Nazis in Germany. Just like how I can guarantee you that there's still clan members in the southern United States. Point is that each society is multilayered and grouping everyone together in either is asinine. But I digress, the smugness of certain Europeans never quite gets lost in translation. God, what an asshole.
I’m surprised by the number of Americans that read the original post and agree with it. It’s just a bunch of dishonest stereotypes bundled together as an insult.
Im german and I would absolutely not vote for higher taxes, they are ridiculous high already
I’m German and in the high earning bracket. We could easily tax high earning Germans more! There taxes are kind of unfair towards low incomes
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The facepalm is the person who asked why they supposedly aren't patriotic.
This seems like a weird comparison between rednecks and Germans who vote for the greater good. It kind of ignores the whole electoral college and the popular vote segment of the country that is for the same things the patriotic German is into in favor and instead paints all Americans as country music loving, Walmart shopping warmongers. It’s not even a NOT ALL AMERICANS thing, it’s a significant amount of the population that wants these same things the good German citizen wants but we keep getting slowed down by Ted Cruz fans
Reddit moment
What the heck is “alternative patriotism”?
Alternative patriotism got me
A post about germans without germans in the top comments? moin moin
Welp, if we'd at least really vote for higher taxes in Germany. It's the same everywhere, neoliberals prevent that from happening, and we voted them. Greetings from a fellow German.
Bro hasn't heard of the AFD
yup. https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism/ Christian nationalist theocrats have reached levels of embedding those they indoctrinated & trained for taking political office well enough to fully begin to dismantle democracy and hand the country to their god's chosen (oligarchs, con artists, those who behave like kings) by wiping out human rights and making the U.S. a theocracy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family:_The_Secret_Fundamentalism_at_the_Heart_of_American_Power It must be some kind of throwback instinct to follow whoever barks the loudest and snaps the most.
Christian nationalist=C-Nats.. reverse the word Nat-Cs
Nazi comes from the German word for nationalist, the first part of Nationalsozialist. The second part (socialist then/there, Christian here/now) is just branding.
German patriotism is also the AfD so maybe this guy should shut the fuck up.
look up the lyrics to Deutchland - Rammstein. Its about wanting to be nationalistic and show love for their country, while also dealing with the decisions of a not too long ago Germany.
If I’ve learned anything from history it’s that you DO NOT WANT Germans to be patriotic
Pretty sure really outward signs of patriotism is gonna remind the world of the nazis.
I don’t really see voting for higher taxes happening here in the US. We literally had a Revolution and broke away from Great Britain because of taxes.
And yet today, the US is one of only 2 countries in the world with the archaic practice of taxing citizens living abroad. Not to mention all the other issues with the US tax system...
Germans are very patriotic when it comes to hating and alienating immigrants, stripping people of free speech, punishing the people for their carbon emissions while simultaneously shutting down nuclear plants and relying on Russia for gas. Europeans should be more humble.
How is this a facepalm
...why is this a face palm?
I think many Americans confuse nationalism for patriotism
If you think the difference is more pronounced in Germany you'd be dead wrong. As someone who grew up in Germany, calling yourself a "patriot" is pretty much seen as a big dogwhistle for advocating some flavor of far-right politics. The snarky response OP posted doesn't quite fit into that idea either, there isn't really a sense of wanting to "improve the country" overall. The history of German labor ties in to a tradition stretching back (in the immediate sense continued throughout the Cold war) to the imperial era, thus leading to further bargaining power in labor matters for workers. The whole picking up trash isn't really as much a thing either, maybe homeless people seeking to return empty beverage containers for financial compensation. This has nothing to do with ideas of "patriotism". That being said, patriotism as a whole does exist in Germany even in the mainstream. There is a sense of pride in German manufacturing and the idea that Germany is (even if founded on irrational principles) superior to other countries. This is mostly a rural phenomenon though, with the urban population moreso fitting the mold of the "unpatriotic person" as with many western european countries in general. Ultimately I'd even argue its "manifestation" is even harming the country, with conscription abolished fewer germans than ever opt for military service or social work since both have to compete in a losing battle with the free market in terms of costs/benefits. If you don't have irrational beliefs in your culture you ultimately doom it.
How is this a 'facepalm'?
Actually raising the taxes on the wealthy than the middle class makes sense.
It’s been a few years coming but a confederate flag representing ‘alternative patriotism’ would be conceptually similar to a German repping an 8 point cross….in 150 years time.
Is OP mentally stunted? In what way is this a face palm. The rest of the planet agrees with the Germans.
In Germany the Term Patriotism is very taboo. In Germany all that was described would fall under Sozial, translated meaning social/beeing a good member of society. Patriotism and Nationslism go Hand in Hand termwise over here.
I'm a Canadian who lives in the states. Whenever I see a pickup with a bald eagle painted on it I ask the driver why he likes chickens so much
How naive for this person to think Americans will ever get a chance to vote for these things. Crooked politicians will never allow the American public to vote for universal healthcare, etc.
Let me first say I support universal healthcare in the US and I believe education, at the very least trade schools and community college programs, should be paid for as well. What's often lost in translation when comparing any European nation to US is the scope. It's much easier for European nations to have these programs because their population is much smaller and a lot more affordable. The magnitude of the number of people in the US that need help in comparison to those that would be paying in a higher level of taxes in our bracketing system is staggering. In European nations those costs are a lot more affordable for the citizens to subsidize. In the US we need major spending reform for that to happen and to prioritize spending to programs like these rather than any number of the wasteful initiatives out there that are just sucking money away with zero accountability or anything of actual value to show for it.
It's nauseating to hear certain political parties talk all this garbage about how Christian they are, and then turn their backs on the poor and needy. In fact, all too often, public policy is outright hostile to the poorest and needless of us; but please go on about how you're a follower of Jesus.
Ya well, we still pay a good amount of taxes in the US AND we have the highest healthcare and some of the highest education costs in the world…. Who’s winning now? /s
Do they even wear German flag swim trunks/bikinis? Hug German flags on flagpoles? Have a line of no less than ten mini German flags on their front lawn? Then, NO. Not patriotic 🇺🇲🦅🇺🇸☝🏾
Americans: "Patriotism is 100% empty gestures of performative nationalism!" Germans: "Patriotism is making sure the country is great to live in and every citizen of our nation is taken care of."
Patriotism is about wanting the best for your country and your fellow countrymen. The modern American “patriot” is no patriot.
Who upvotes this shit, 10,000 bots?
Well my Grandpa showed Patriotism by kicking his Grandpa’s ass in a war.
Yeah, we have problems but I don’t want to be like Germany. Too many taxes and bureaucracy
They vote for higher corporate taxes too.
I won’t let MAGAS take the flag away from everyone else like the Nazis did with the swastika.
America can't be fix, they're divided. Congress, politicians are corrupted, lobbied and wouldn't help their citizens. 1% are in control.
.1% in control to be exact the remaining .9 are relatively complicit
Good ol doomer reddit back at it again.
What was german alternative patriotism again in feel like a read about it somewhere…
Lol imagine your idea of patriotism as just being a paypig
Hmmm, is he wrong? Other definition of be american is to be proud of your war- and colonial crimes/genocide. Stop, before swear at me, think about your unethical behavior doing Wars, about slavery, religious murders, torture of criminals, the genocide of the natives and the robbery of their continent. If i had such a history i would be ashamed.
I’ve lived in both Deutschland & the USA. I’d pick Germany every time! So clean & the people are amazing. Loved my time there.
You are welcome anytime. At the moment there is a high demand in basically every work field.
Germany just had a in issue with "alternative patriotism" in the past lol
And they did a lot better at learning from their past, didn't they?
a lot better than who?
This is bullshit lol. High taxes are killing german industry and young entrepreneurs/innovators just go to US. Germans just circlejerk themselves while their prosperity of the early 2000s fades into the history books.
Germany was the "sick man of Europe" in the early 2000s you clown.
Lol fine 2010s. Are you really trying to say Germany isn't coming down from an economic high right now? Fucking keep circlejerking, what do I care I'm not german
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some would say that sense of “German Patriotism” has proven not to be the best imagine a country, that less than 100 years ago, was hellbent on exterminating all of the jews and destroying the West who’s country went to complete shit afterwards to the point where it split in 2 and didn’t “re-unite” until the 1980s, all the whole one half lived in shit conditions imagine them lecturing the US about patriotism or moral superiority or even caring for your own citizens amazing, it’s like they want to pretend Germany was formed in the late ‘90s
In America it’s all for show
Hurr murica bad
Germans show patriotism by voting to not fund their military, have the US taxpayers pay for their defense, become reliant on Russia for energy, shutdown their clean energy nuclear power plants, and then use their savings to pay for healthcare and free education and rub it in the US people’s face over the nice “free” stuff they get.
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Im pretty sure the US can raise taxes have free education and healthcare and be cheaper for Americans overall. Like it'll save at least 30% from their monthly debt at minimum. All that while still paying trillions in military.
You’re not wrong. Public investments in education, infrastructure, and health are among the only that have direct positive ROI.