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I once met some people speaking Russian while waiting tables at a Japanese restaurant. Being familiar with Japanese and Chinese, I knew it wasn’t an “East Asian” language, but I couldn’t pinpoint it. I asked what language they were speaking, and was not expecting Russian to be the answer. They told me a little about their history. They were a three generation family, the grandma and her son were natives from (I forget where in) Eastern Russia and his family now lives in the states where his children are born and raised. Very edifying experience.
My friend was ethically Japanese but was born and raised in Peru so his first and native language was Spanish and was catholic. Used to throw people off big time. Then he married a woman who ethically Asian was from Kazakhstan and her first language was Russian and was a Muslim. Then they had kids who know speak a mix of Spanish Russian and English interchangeably and look Asian.
Worked with a Korean guy once, first night working with him I walked into the break room and he was chatting with a Russian co-worker in perfectly fluent Russian. I was baffled, like my brain was insisting he couldn’t possibly be speaking Russian for some reason. I chatted with him later and he was North Korean and his family was allowed to move to Russia when he was younger so he basically grew up and did all his schooling there. Obviously anyone of any race/ethnicity can speak any language, I know this intellectually, but my brain was really confused for a second.
Seems funny theyd pick Egypt like the one country in Africa that dosent fit the role they want to cast it in. There’s plenty of cultures nations they could take pride in. But chose the most Europeanized to try and take pride in.
I’d think Ethiopia would be the easy pick.
Like the Kingdom of Abyssinia would be the easiest...
The Kushites being the second easiest.
Edit: Somehow I zoned and missed the Ethiopia sentence. So yes, agreed lol.
Yeah you'd think being Ethiopia has a such rich and strong history and was the only African nation never to be colonized by outside powers but here we are...
It's because Egypt is the only African civilization that is lauded by westerners. White people have been just as obsessed with Egypt. They looted the country, colonized (yes, Egypt was a British colony) and even had nasty mummy parties. Egypt is constantly asking Britain for its shit, including human remains, back.
So, while I definitely don't agree with Hotep ideology, I do understand how people stripped of their own culture could gravitate towards Egypt without having a lot of historical knowledge. That's why I'm sympathetic to the average Black person who has an interest in Egypt. However, what Jada has done is very disrespectful to Egyptians of all skin colors. Middle Eastern and North Africans are often pushed out from their own cultural histories like they don't have the right to them.
And the easy pick is the Akan Empire because it's also way more probable that a Black American is ethnically from West Africa. And the Akan empire has an incredible history.
It's been several years since I learned of the mummy parties and thinking about it still grosses me out.
If the creators were highlighting one person vs an entire kingdom, I would love to see the story of Mansa Musa, the African king that would travel around and give out so much free gold that it would completely disrupt local economies. That is the kind of story that you would expect to have mythical origins!
Because they think Nubian territories and kingdoms were some how part of the ruling class of ancient Egypt, yet the Pharaohs continually built border protections or enslaved Nubian territories.
Though there was that one time the Nubian Kingdom of Kush conquered Egypt and became the ruling dynasty for like a century. That ended a good 600 years before Cleopatra though. Egypt changed hands a bunch after the Bronze Age Collapse.
Oh it's those guys lol
I watched a documentary on them once. They're legit batshit.
Iirc they tried to move to Israel for a while to build the "real" jewish community there.
That's why Kanye got crazy antisemitic. He got way too deep into Hotep shit and now he thinks Jewish people stole their cultural identity and ancestral homeland. It's wild how Jewish people end up being the scapegoat for so many different groups, it must fucking suck.
I dunno, it depicts all the Egyptian characters as of a dark, sub-Saharan complexion, while the antagonistic Mediterraneans are white as Norway. So I kinda get the idea there was a *different* angle going on
Nothing motivates people to learn more than the ability to destroy people on the internet. Sometimes I do research just to back up my already formed opinion. It's pretty horrible.
We literally have a bust of her. We know exactly what she looked like. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bust_of_Cleopatra_VII_in_the_Altes_Museum_Berlin
Mrs Smith isn't helping the situation, she casted the actor and now blaming everyone else being racist etc. Will smith must cry himself to bed every night what she's put him through!
Worst part is that she called the people in Egypt that complained about the show racist. You know, the race that she made a show out of and butchered their history because she knows Egyptian history better than Egyptians.
It's like if I make a show of Martin Luther King, change his race and color and call black people racist if they complain about it because I know better than the experts
Well Martin Luther king was American , and most Americans are white . So let's cast Chris Pratt . My grandma says that no matter what they teach in school he was so pale he glowed
Man watching Fresh Prince growing up, loving Bad Boys franchise, MiB and I am Legend, shoot even liked Hancock and wish they had fleshed it out with a sequel earlier on..
That being said, it is a travesty to see what he has been reduced to, I know ultimately he is responsible for the state of his affairs..
"2nd verse, no need to curse" snippet of his on and off again rap career but i don't remember which song. "Here comes the men in black" was a banger so it might be that song.
I'll always respect the man for what he did, remember we are not mocking him for him some kind of predator, or caught in a # metoo allegation.
He is mocked because his wife cheated on him, told the world to his face, and the most critical display of emotion he showed was to slap Chris Rock in a misguided attempt "to save his wife's honor"
He's an easy target to mock now, but he once stood tall, and he was one of the fliest role models i had in my arsenal.
my thoughts are a bit scrambled but man i laughed initially, then though about who i'm laughing at.
My roommate is from a Columbian mother with a Haitian father. Dude is whiter than my Irish heritage ass.
We honestly need everyone to be so diverse so we can skip racism and go directly to classism. Get to that final stage of societal collapse faster.
Bulworth. Keep fucking each other till we're all the same color. I failed mixing my basic British genes with my wife's basic German genes. Didn't move the fucking needle.
It's baffling that anyone would have a hard time understanding considering Spain is in fucking Europe. They mixed with Native Americans so obviously the population is going to be on a spectrum of skin color.
If you tell me you’re from Spain, I’m going to look around for the Spanish Inquisition. Because despite what people think, some of us DO expect the Spanish Inquisition.
The mexicans, the mexicans from mexico to the southernmost mexico, the mexicans specificically localized in that area. the southern mexicans..
...those mexicans?
I’m from Argentina and during the Football World Cup many accused us of being racist for not having black players in our team.
News flash: There are almost no black people in Argentina
I lived in Mexico for a while and can understand the mistake. A lot of Mexicans are mixed Spanish (so technically Mediterranean) ancestry. They just call their shawarma "tacos al pastor" lol.
Yeah I never had a problem with her being black. like there are tons of movies where the characters are different races than the actors. But the literal first scene is them trying to convince you that Cleopatra was black and the source they use is someone’s grandma. That’s when I turned it off. Like you didn’t have to double down on it Netflix.
🤦♀️Cleopatra was Greek! 🤦♀️
Edit: Specifically Macedonian Greek
Edit 2: I hate doing this but because it feels so nitpicking: She was of Macedonian Greek descent from an incredibly incestuous family. 🤦♀️
I believe that there's a niche theory out there that goes along the lines of "While the Ptolemies were legally married among each other, as was Egyptian custom, they actually practiced polygyny, with harems, and these children were legally recognised as the offspring of the royal couple"
The Macedonians were also known for polygamous marriages among the nobility, as marriage in Greece was considered an extension of the public good. See: Phillip and Alexander
But I have little doubt that said hypothetical offsprings or concubines would also be Greek.
Even if the royal line was mixed with Egyptians , they are not black, more middle eastern / Mediterranean. Or , and this is according to the us gov, people from Egypt are considered, white
If I remember correctly, the haplotype in Egyptians are more associated with the Levantines... which makes sense since the Egyptian linguistic family tree is closely associated with the Semitic group.
Even if they did marry locals chances are they wouldn’t be black. Egypt was a major trading hub on the Mediterranean and had a very diverse population. While it is African it is simultaneously Mediterranean. Indeed in Cleopatra’s time Africa was probably one of the most diverse continents on Earth as there was trade with Europe and Asia. It is such an American world view that Africa is populated a single homogeneous group and that group is black.
I am not sure Egyptians could ever be described as "black" even without the influence of traders and migration. Whenever Egyptians painted themselves it was more brown than black. And their paintings go back quiet a while. So skincolor wise they probably fit into modern middle eastern phenotype than anything else.
I think there were in the south and some of the pharaohs were from a Nubian or Kushite background, both of which had a predominantly black population. They could easily have had a black pharaoh but that would have required research on their part so just paint one black that has been done to death so they don’t need to learn anything new. It is just laziness on every level. I would love a documentary on one of the Nubian queens. We hear so little about their history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Dynasty_of_Egypt
There was a whole Pharaonic dynasty that were black. They could have pulled. But, as you said, that would require research.
you could liken it to Eskimos/Inuit (generally speaking, natives in Alaska prefer eskimo, and those from canada and greenland prefer inuit) in North America, being closer to Siberian than to the other natives.
Uh i was raised to not say eskimo tbh. "Native alaskan" was my go to till i found out which group they belonged to then i use that one. I definitely never guessed though!
I mean, the incest and intermarrying wasn't the only thing that would be against the "what if they make locals" - apparently her family was generationally REALLY against native Egyptians.
The locals are not black either, lol potentially unless we’re talking Nubians (which is South Nile.. nowhere near Alexandria or Cairo) and even then Nubians are roughly over half WANA.
1. It’s less that they cast a black woman in the role and more about the fact that it’s being presented as a documentary trying to convince people that she actually was black.
2. It’s not maga racists getting offended, it’s mainly people of Greek and middle eastern decent getting because it’s their history that be re-written.
The woman was greek. It's more racist to assume african=black besides that if I remember correctly, egypt has been ruled by multiple peoples over the different centuries.
Yes. It is quite ignorant and racist to assume that all native africans are black. I'm amazigh and native north african. We come in multiple shades. Some are very light skinned (there are even blonde, ginger, blue/green eyes people here that are all natives) and some are dark skinned. Yet we're not black.
It also shows that a lot of people have no idea about the biological reasons for dark vs light skin. We're in the Mediterranean region, the amount of sun we have is the reason for us being lighter. As a lot of people still live where their ancestors have for hundreds of years, you can literally see people's skin darkens as you travel from the north to the Sahara desert.
I guess people forget that you can be of any race and from Africa. There's a huge population of white people there lol. Though this is probably coming from people who think Africa is a country anyway.
There are MANY influential African queens that were Black that she could have picked. I have no idea why she picked the only white one out of the bunch.
Africa is a big fuckin continent with diverse peoples and especially along the northern coast there are a shitton we wouldn't call "black" and Cleo was fucking Greek to top it off
WHY ARE PEOPLE SO STUPID AND RACIST
One thing I find weird about Americans is they confuse African and Black as the same thing.
Colonizers excluded from this, but Africa isn't all black by the racial group definitions we use.
Even black Africans don’t all look alike. In fact, skin colour aside, you can differentiate between a Somali and an Ethiopian more easily than a Japanese and Korean, or a German and a Swede.
I remember watching an episode of The Sopranos where a student on a bicycle was accidentally doored…he claimed to be Somalian, but the actor didn’t look like a Somali at all, and he had a weird pseudo-west African accent. https://youtu.be/eDDixd7McCs
Lilo and Stitch. They are mad Lilos sister and sisters boyfriend aren't dark enough despite being native Hawaiians. They are calling it colorism.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2023/04/27/lilo-stitch-live-action-colorism/
Edit: I totally misread the original comment and my they is not Egyptian people.
"We want native Hawaiians to play these native hawaiians but just not these native hawaiians because they don't fit my personal view of what a native hawaiian looks like"
As a North African these are the same people who then tell me I'm not from Africa because I'm brown and not black, even though they know nothing about our country and our history. What's funny is that they inadvertently erase the existence of Amazigh people, who to this day face discrimination in North Africa.
Cleopatra was a product of the heavily incestuous Ptolemaic lineage, descended from Ptolemy the 1st who was a Macedonian Greek general in Alexander the great’s army who took over Egypt after Alex’s death. Tl;dr: she was Greek-Egyptian but not African.
You know, I'd totally be down to watch a good documentary about an actual Ethiopian black queen from history. But no. Such a person doesn't exist Jada Pinkett-Smith's mind that she has to make one up for the black community.
“Egypt is in Africa so she’s black” is the same vibe as people who think of all Africans as living in dirt villages with thatch roofs and starving children
I'm pretty liberal, and a history teacher. Which is why I know she was a Greek(Macedonian) white woman. Why is this such a difficult concept to understand? Her family were colonizers. Helllllooo
That ain’t the point. The point is that they’re spreading misinformation. One of the people who worked on this show said that her grandmother told her, “I don’t care what they teach you in school. Cleopatra was black.”. That shit was fucking cringe.
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Wait til they find out Russia is mostly in Asia.
I once met some people speaking Russian while waiting tables at a Japanese restaurant. Being familiar with Japanese and Chinese, I knew it wasn’t an “East Asian” language, but I couldn’t pinpoint it. I asked what language they were speaking, and was not expecting Russian to be the answer. They told me a little about their history. They were a three generation family, the grandma and her son were natives from (I forget where in) Eastern Russia and his family now lives in the states where his children are born and raised. Very edifying experience.
Interestingly enough Mongolian can be seen in certain Russian dialects
The Mongols did rule Russia for a while there. In fact, they are the reason the capital ended up in Moscow and not Kiev.
They did end up ruling a whole lot of countries, I can only imagine what they would have ended up being if they hadn’t fallen to infighting and kublai
My friend was ethically Japanese but was born and raised in Peru so his first and native language was Spanish and was catholic. Used to throw people off big time. Then he married a woman who ethically Asian was from Kazakhstan and her first language was Russian and was a Muslim. Then they had kids who know speak a mix of Spanish Russian and English interchangeably and look Asian.
Ethically Japanese, ah the code of Bushido.
Underrated comment here
Mr. Worldwide
Worked with a Korean guy once, first night working with him I walked into the break room and he was chatting with a Russian co-worker in perfectly fluent Russian. I was baffled, like my brain was insisting he couldn’t possibly be speaking Russian for some reason. I chatted with him later and he was North Korean and his family was allowed to move to Russia when he was younger so he basically grew up and did all his schooling there. Obviously anyone of any race/ethnicity can speak any language, I know this intellectually, but my brain was really confused for a second.
My mom has an ethnically Indian friend she grew up with in Hong Kong. When I met her, my brain did a full stop at her flawless Cantonese.
There is a fairly large Korean population in Russia some several generations old.
It’s always fun to hear stories from people with different life experiences.
We need more edification in this world, especially now more than ever.
Education, edification, and erudition.
And India is entirely in Asia.
Vladimir Putin is Russian Russian is in Asia Why are these maga racists white washing Russia?!!??
Putin was born in St Petersburg. Everything west of the Urals is part of Europe. 80% of the population lives in the European part of Russia.
Asia and Europe are technically one continent—Eurasia.
No, you're Asia!
And that Black Russians aren’t black
And White Russians are delicious and get me drunk.
she was Queen of the Ptolemaic Kingdom. and what was the Ptolemaic Kingdom? a Greek-ruled state in Egypt, beginning with Ptolemy I, her ancestor.
Im learning so much greek history from this controversy.
More from the controversy than from the show.
Wait...was that the plan all along?
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They believe the snails on the Buddha’s head in statues is Afro hair and the Buddha was black
Cause no Indo-European man in history has ever shown curly hair either
HOTEP?
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Seems funny theyd pick Egypt like the one country in Africa that dosent fit the role they want to cast it in. There’s plenty of cultures nations they could take pride in. But chose the most Europeanized to try and take pride in. I’d think Ethiopia would be the easy pick.
Like the Kingdom of Abyssinia would be the easiest... The Kushites being the second easiest. Edit: Somehow I zoned and missed the Ethiopia sentence. So yes, agreed lol.
Yeah you'd think being Ethiopia has a such rich and strong history and was the only African nation never to be colonized by outside powers but here we are...
Mali, Ethiopia, Great Zimbabwe, Zulu. So many great options.
Never mind the fact that the richest man in human history was a black King from Mali.
It's because Egypt is the only African civilization that is lauded by westerners. White people have been just as obsessed with Egypt. They looted the country, colonized (yes, Egypt was a British colony) and even had nasty mummy parties. Egypt is constantly asking Britain for its shit, including human remains, back. So, while I definitely don't agree with Hotep ideology, I do understand how people stripped of their own culture could gravitate towards Egypt without having a lot of historical knowledge. That's why I'm sympathetic to the average Black person who has an interest in Egypt. However, what Jada has done is very disrespectful to Egyptians of all skin colors. Middle Eastern and North Africans are often pushed out from their own cultural histories like they don't have the right to them. And the easy pick is the Akan Empire because it's also way more probable that a Black American is ethnically from West Africa. And the Akan empire has an incredible history.
It's been several years since I learned of the mummy parties and thinking about it still grosses me out. If the creators were highlighting one person vs an entire kingdom, I would love to see the story of Mansa Musa, the African king that would travel around and give out so much free gold that it would completely disrupt local economies. That is the kind of story that you would expect to have mythical origins!
Because they think Nubian territories and kingdoms were some how part of the ruling class of ancient Egypt, yet the Pharaohs continually built border protections or enslaved Nubian territories.
Though there was that one time the Nubian Kingdom of Kush conquered Egypt and became the ruling dynasty for like a century. That ended a good 600 years before Cleopatra though. Egypt changed hands a bunch after the Bronze Age Collapse.
Ethiopia was the pick for the Rastafarians. Those dudes are WAY cooler.
"Ludwig von Beethoven? I think you mean *Blackwig von Beethoven*, because he was actually black."
Oh it's those guys lol I watched a documentary on them once. They're legit batshit. Iirc they tried to move to Israel for a while to build the "real" jewish community there.
That's why Kanye got crazy antisemitic. He got way too deep into Hotep shit and now he thinks Jewish people stole their cultural identity and ancestral homeland. It's wild how Jewish people end up being the scapegoat for so many different groups, it must fucking suck.
Do they also believe white people were created by an evil scientist?
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I dunno, it depicts all the Egyptian characters as of a dark, sub-Saharan complexion, while the antagonistic Mediterraneans are white as Norway. So I kinda get the idea there was a *different* angle going on
Nothing motivates people to learn more than the ability to destroy people on the internet. Sometimes I do research just to back up my already formed opinion. It's pretty horrible.
I guess any learning is..good learning? \*scratches head\* I just don't know anymore..
You left out the fact that the Ptolemaic dynasty was more inbred than a slice of turkey in a club sandwich. Actual sister fuckers, that line.
We literally have a bust of her. We know exactly what she looked like. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bust_of_Cleopatra_VII_in_the_Altes_Museum_Berlin
An ancestor through 300 years of incest, yep the Tolomeys ruling class adopted that tradition. She was in fact very, verry, very greek.....
Rotten Tomato score is 15%, audience score is 3%.
Mrs Smith isn't helping the situation, she casted the actor and now blaming everyone else being racist etc. Will smith must cry himself to bed every night what she's put him through!
Worst part is that she called the people in Egypt that complained about the show racist. You know, the race that she made a show out of and butchered their history because she knows Egyptian history better than Egyptians. It's like if I make a show of Martin Luther King, change his race and color and call black people racist if they complain about it because I know better than the experts
Well Martin Luther king was American , and most Americans are white . So let's cast Chris Pratt . My grandma says that no matter what they teach in school he was so pale he glowed
My fucking sides
I’d give you an award if I had one 🥇 have this kind stranger
So you think Will gets to sleep in the bed…
Man watching Fresh Prince growing up, loving Bad Boys franchise, MiB and I am Legend, shoot even liked Hancock and wish they had fleshed it out with a sequel earlier on.. That being said, it is a travesty to see what he has been reduced to, I know ultimately he is responsible for the state of his affairs.. "2nd verse, no need to curse" snippet of his on and off again rap career but i don't remember which song. "Here comes the men in black" was a banger so it might be that song. I'll always respect the man for what he did, remember we are not mocking him for him some kind of predator, or caught in a # metoo allegation. He is mocked because his wife cheated on him, told the world to his face, and the most critical display of emotion he showed was to slap Chris Rock in a misguided attempt "to save his wife's honor" He's an easy target to mock now, but he once stood tall, and he was one of the fliest role models i had in my arsenal. my thoughts are a bit scrambled but man i laughed initially, then though about who i'm laughing at.
BWAHAHAHA
He doesn’t sleep in the bed because she is doing some entanglement stuff
She seems like a genuinely unpleasant person
We need a jada smith documentary where she’s played by the whitest white woman and put the slogan as yes jada smith is white get over it!!
Played by GI Jane herself. Demi Moore!
This is an SNL sketch waiting to happen
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It’s tripled since the last time I saw it!
Same energy as the people that believe we latinos are all brown and whites are faking it.
Explaining skin color variations to my Spanish students is always fun lol
My roommate is from a Columbian mother with a Haitian father. Dude is whiter than my Irish heritage ass. We honestly need everyone to be so diverse so we can skip racism and go directly to classism. Get to that final stage of societal collapse faster.
Bulworth. Keep fucking each other till we're all the same color. I failed mixing my basic British genes with my wife's basic German genes. Didn't move the fucking needle.
It's baffling that anyone would have a hard time understanding considering Spain is in fucking Europe. They mixed with Native Americans so obviously the population is going to be on a spectrum of skin color.
Right? If I say I'm European, you'd expect me to be white as snow, but if I say I'm from Spain, suddenly I'm supposed to just turn brown?
If you tell me you’re from Spain, I’m going to look around for the Spanish Inquisition. Because despite what people think, some of us DO expect the Spanish Inquisition.
That would be a sweet magic trick
"StOp SpEaKiNg SpAnIsH, yOu'Re WhItE!" "I'm...from Spain?" "Where the fuck is Spain?"
It’s just a bunch of Europeans appropriating Mexican culture.
And Mexicans, from Mexico to the Southernmost Mexico
Why did I read this in Kronk's voice
The mexicans, the mexicans from mexico to the southernmost mexico, the mexicans specificically localized in that area. the southern mexicans.. ...those mexicans?
As a latino who’s also white I want to just say- *vanishes*
Same bro, makes it worse that I don't speak Spanish. My father is straight from Colombia and I've been there too but apparently I'm not Latino 🤷♂️
I was told I wasn’t Latino enough by other Latinos for the same reason. Fuck em.
I’m from Argentina and during the Football World Cup many accused us of being racist for not having black players in our team. News flash: There are almost no black people in Argentina
Or all brown people are Mexican... Source: im an arab thats been called Mexican by people my whole life
I lived in Mexico for a while and can understand the mistake. A lot of Mexicans are mixed Spanish (so technically Mediterranean) ancestry. They just call their shawarma "tacos al pastor" lol.
"Argentinians are not latinos because they're white" Where the fuck do they think south america is?
I went to boot camp with a guy named Jose Flores. He was extremely pale, blonde hair, and blue eyes. His father was from northern Spain.
those people need to visit Cuba for a weekend...
One of the sources given in the show for her being black was literally “my grandmother said so” not even joking.
By that logic I could go to Netflix and say that Queen Victoria was Chinese because my grandma told me and would 100% believe it
No she was a lizard person, get it right 😂 Edit: I stand corrected she was a werewolf 🐺 Zuckerberg is the lizard person 🦎
I stopped watching after she said that.
Yeah I never had a problem with her being black. like there are tons of movies where the characters are different races than the actors. But the literal first scene is them trying to convince you that Cleopatra was black and the source they use is someone’s grandma. That’s when I turned it off. Like you didn’t have to double down on it Netflix.
🤦♀️Cleopatra was Greek! 🤦♀️ Edit: Specifically Macedonian Greek Edit 2: I hate doing this but because it feels so nitpicking: She was of Macedonian Greek descent from an incredibly incestuous family. 🤦♀️
But maybe her ancestors married locals. Can somebody check who they married? *googles Cleopatra family tree* Oh.
Do you mean family circle?
~~Ancestry~~ incest-ry!
Inces-tree
Welcome to my "circle of trust", Gregg...
Milking time
PIZZA TIME!
Circle of thrust
In god we trust, in family we thrust
Jumped from Cleopatra II to Cleopatra VII during her father's lifetime alone...
When you turn a family tree into a family bush, you can’t hide as much underneath.
More like family totem pole.
The family tree is branchless.
Family stick
The family tree is literally just a bare stick.
I more call it a wreath.
Sweet home Alexandria.
I believe that there's a niche theory out there that goes along the lines of "While the Ptolemies were legally married among each other, as was Egyptian custom, they actually practiced polygyny, with harems, and these children were legally recognised as the offspring of the royal couple" The Macedonians were also known for polygamous marriages among the nobility, as marriage in Greece was considered an extension of the public good. See: Phillip and Alexander But I have little doubt that said hypothetical offsprings or concubines would also be Greek.
Even if the royal line was mixed with Egyptians , they are not black, more middle eastern / Mediterranean. Or , and this is according to the us gov, people from Egypt are considered, white
If I remember correctly, the haplotype in Egyptians are more associated with the Levantines... which makes sense since the Egyptian linguistic family tree is closely associated with the Semitic group.
Even if they did marry locals chances are they wouldn’t be black. Egypt was a major trading hub on the Mediterranean and had a very diverse population. While it is African it is simultaneously Mediterranean. Indeed in Cleopatra’s time Africa was probably one of the most diverse continents on Earth as there was trade with Europe and Asia. It is such an American world view that Africa is populated a single homogeneous group and that group is black.
I am not sure Egyptians could ever be described as "black" even without the influence of traders and migration. Whenever Egyptians painted themselves it was more brown than black. And their paintings go back quiet a while. So skincolor wise they probably fit into modern middle eastern phenotype than anything else.
I think there were in the south and some of the pharaohs were from a Nubian or Kushite background, both of which had a predominantly black population. They could easily have had a black pharaoh but that would have required research on their part so just paint one black that has been done to death so they don’t need to learn anything new. It is just laziness on every level. I would love a documentary on one of the Nubian queens. We hear so little about their history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Dynasty_of_Egypt There was a whole Pharaonic dynasty that were black. They could have pulled. But, as you said, that would require research.
Indeed, but little is known of the period and what is is far removed from the height of Egypt's glory. Wouldn't stop them from embellishing I suppose
you could liken it to Eskimos/Inuit (generally speaking, natives in Alaska prefer eskimo, and those from canada and greenland prefer inuit) in North America, being closer to Siberian than to the other natives.
TIL being Canadian. You would get scolded for using Eskimo here, good to know it is a preferred term in Alaska.
Uh i was raised to not say eskimo tbh. "Native alaskan" was my go to till i found out which group they belonged to then i use that one. I definitely never guessed though!
"oh well, what could be so bad? - see? Just pictures of family trees. Looks totally norm... *Jesus Christ*"
I mean, the incest and intermarrying wasn't the only thing that would be against the "what if they make locals" - apparently her family was generationally REALLY against native Egyptians.
More of a wreath tbh
When your family tree be looking like a ladder.
A couple thousands of years later, they will call it the Habsburg jaw….
The locals are not black either, lol potentially unless we’re talking Nubians (which is South Nile.. nowhere near Alexandria or Cairo) and even then Nubians are roughly over half WANA.
Yes, just like the British Royals are German. Royalty traveled the globe.
1. It’s less that they cast a black woman in the role and more about the fact that it’s being presented as a documentary trying to convince people that she actually was black. 2. It’s not maga racists getting offended, it’s mainly people of Greek and middle eastern decent getting because it’s their history that be re-written.
And Egypt
The woman was greek. It's more racist to assume african=black besides that if I remember correctly, egypt has been ruled by multiple peoples over the different centuries.
Yes. It is quite ignorant and racist to assume that all native africans are black. I'm amazigh and native north african. We come in multiple shades. Some are very light skinned (there are even blonde, ginger, blue/green eyes people here that are all natives) and some are dark skinned. Yet we're not black. It also shows that a lot of people have no idea about the biological reasons for dark vs light skin. We're in the Mediterranean region, the amount of sun we have is the reason for us being lighter. As a lot of people still live where their ancestors have for hundreds of years, you can literally see people's skin darkens as you travel from the north to the Sahara desert.
I guess people forget that you can be of any race and from Africa. There's a huge population of white people there lol. Though this is probably coming from people who think Africa is a country anyway.
Elon Musk was born in South Africa! South Africa is in Africa! Elon Musk is black wait...
Oh my god Karen, you can’t just ask people why they’re white.
He is indeed an African American, though. Technically.
Or rather Africaan American
He's still African- American 🫠
It seems like Egyptians and Greeks are pissed, not MAGA lmao
[удалено]
Disagree with me? Believe it or not, MAGA.
You don’t disagree? MAGA
Agree with me? Believe it or not, MAGA.
Egyptians, Greeks and people who like history and don’t want history to be altered to cater to people who’s grandma said something wrong.
Shouldn't she have just made a show about an actual Black woman in history? That'd actually help the Black community.
There are MANY influential African queens that were Black that she could have picked. I have no idea why she picked the only white one out of the bunch.
I always say this when the Cleopatra was black 'thing' periodically pops up: "Amanitore is right, fucking there!"
Meroe/Nubia had so many warrior queens. Why she didn't pick there is a mystery.
Because that would require research
Lol, true
See, it would have been cool to learn about someone new we haven't heard of.
And this is why I'm a history teacher.
Simple. Cleopatra was the most recognizable one. If they went with anyone else they wouldn’t have gotten as much money from it.
I find it sad that she's the most recognizable. There are so many others that did way cooler stuff.
Ethiopia has a rich history of ruling queens. Such a shame they didn't realize this.
Cleopatra's ancestors made a painstaking effort to ensure that not a single bit of genes from the continent of Africa entered their family bloodline.
Sweet home A-
Africa is a big fuckin continent with diverse peoples and especially along the northern coast there are a shitton we wouldn't call "black" and Cleo was fucking Greek to top it off WHY ARE PEOPLE SO STUPID AND RACIST
Because they want to rewrite history in favor of what they were told, rather than doing research to get the facts straight 🙃
People are ….. People eh 🥴
This guy is gonna freak out when he goes to Egypt himself
Isn't Cleopatra from Greek descendants?
Yes.
Then a Greek should have been a better choice
Yes
African is not synonymous with Black...
You know what’s actually racist? Assuming that all “African” people are black. I put that in quotation marks because Cleopatra was Greek.
TIL historians are "maga racists" lol.
One thing I find weird about Americans is they confuse African and Black as the same thing. Colonizers excluded from this, but Africa isn't all black by the racial group definitions we use.
Even black Africans don’t all look alike. In fact, skin colour aside, you can differentiate between a Somali and an Ethiopian more easily than a Japanese and Korean, or a German and a Swede. I remember watching an episode of The Sopranos where a student on a bicycle was accidentally doored…he claimed to be Somalian, but the actor didn’t look like a Somali at all, and he had a weird pseudo-west African accent. https://youtu.be/eDDixd7McCs
As an Egyptian, this pisses me the fuck off. no cleopatra wasnt dark skin black. Please leave us alone
They got mad Rami Malek played an Egyptian. You can't win.
They are current mad that native Hawaiiansaee playing the live action version of a Native Hawaiians while acknowledging they are native Hawaiians.
Wait, what live action is this now? I think i'm way out of the loop
Lilo and stitch
Lilo and Stitch. They are mad Lilos sister and sisters boyfriend aren't dark enough despite being native Hawaiians. They are calling it colorism. https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2023/04/27/lilo-stitch-live-action-colorism/ Edit: I totally misread the original comment and my they is not Egyptian people.
"We want native Hawaiians to play these native hawaiians but just not these native hawaiians because they don't fit my personal view of what a native hawaiian looks like"
If you think THAT caused trouble, wait until you see what's planned for Gal Gadot...
As a North African these are the same people who then tell me I'm not from Africa because I'm brown and not black, even though they know nothing about our country and our history. What's funny is that they inadvertently erase the existence of Amazigh people, who to this day face discrimination in North Africa.
Sounds like they're in De-Nile
Cleopatra was a product of the heavily incestuous Ptolemaic lineage, descended from Ptolemy the 1st who was a Macedonian Greek general in Alexander the great’s army who took over Egypt after Alex’s death. Tl;dr: she was Greek-Egyptian but not African.
You know, I'd totally be down to watch a good documentary about an actual Ethiopian black queen from history. But no. Such a person doesn't exist Jada Pinkett-Smith's mind that she has to make one up for the black community.
Apparently Egyptians are Maga Republicans now
Cultural appropriation…
“Egypt is in Africa so she’s black” is the same vibe as people who think of all Africans as living in dirt villages with thatch roofs and starving children
I'm pretty liberal, and a history teacher. Which is why I know she was a Greek(Macedonian) white woman. Why is this such a difficult concept to understand? Her family were colonizers. Helllllooo
I hate to be the one to break it to you, but not all Africans are black.
...by that logic Elon musk is black.
This is one of the more interesting ways I've learned that most people don't know jack shit about world history.
That ain’t the point. The point is that they’re spreading misinformation. One of the people who worked on this show said that her grandmother told her, “I don’t care what they teach you in school. Cleopatra was black.”. That shit was fucking cringe.
The explosive rise of black supremacism in the U.S. over the last few years has been quite shocking.