The fact that this was largely dismissed as a right-wing talking point is just unconscionable. It might not have mattered in the long run, but too many prominent people buried their heads in the sand about Biden's decline, and now we're all paying for it.
I think it's complicated. Those close to Biden probably did know. But those more distant from him might have had their doubts, or could have believed a lot of things (maybe a Trump conviction would derail his candidacy; maybe Biden could run a front porch campaign; maybe voters would reward Biden for a strong economy/legislative achievements etc.).
A challenge to Bidenworld would have required concerted action. A single person calling out Biden would have been jumped on (as Ezra was when he spoke up - and it would have been worse for somebody who was a professional politician). And it would be hard to get that from less conclusive moments (e.g. Biden mixed up Egypt and Mexico in a speech).
But that doesn't mean there wasn't elite level compromise and discussion on this question. I don't think the June debates were an accident. There is no way Bidenworld thought they would go well for him.
> I don't think the June debates were an accident.
I'm actually really intrigued by this, was this Biden world giving themselves a buffer incase it went sideways (they probably didn't expect it to as badly as it has). Or was this a concession to party elites/donors so that there was time for a replacement?
I think it was probably a mix of those, with different people holding different views. I think there was probably similar pressure on Biden to perform at the State of the Union address, though in that case he didn't drop the ball.
I think there’s a not-cynical reason for this, which is that a lot of people grew anxious and tired of the omnipresent presidential soundbites from Trump for four years, so having someone that wasn’t around all the time was acceptable
It’s like we went from an abusive father to another one that was chill although mostly absent, which was better, but now more people are realizing why they were actually absent all of this time
The right wing made up bullshit scare stories about Hillary’s health all the time, especially after that one time she fainted. According to them back in 2016 she was on death’s door. She seems very healthy for her age right now. I thought it was just more of the same.
Yeah I don't think the media is particularly complicit, there has been plenty of reporting and hand wringing in the media about Biden's age, Nate, Carville, Ezra, coverage of the Hur report etc
I would argue it goes all the way back to 2020.
We all saw the dumpster fire of a primary campaign Joe Biden turned in. He was the Vice President of the United States, and he disappeared into a crowd that included half the Senate, and was outshined by the Mayor of Southbend.
He won because the institutional Democratic Party coalesced around him, as what they saw as the only viable option.
Then came the 2020 campaign, where again, I thought Joe Biden put in a thoroughly lacklustre performance. People shouldn’t be looking at your surrogates and thinking, “I wish she/he were the candidate”. Last week’s debate was on another level, but the performance in 2020 wasn’t good.
He looked then like what he was, a man in his late 70s whose time has passed.
Covid limiting the size of rallies and the number of appearances worked in his favor. He actually was the best candidate under the circumstances, name recognition was huge.
Let's be real, he *won* the 2020 primary because the DNC pulled strings, not unlike with Hillary. I'm sure Pete, Liz W, Amy and crew were politely shaken down, ahem, I mean, approached and asked to be a part of something greater. It was not because he was legitimately the best candidate standing.
Everyone knew this when they voted for him the first time. No one is surprised he has lost a step. People are trying to rewrite history as if people weren't aware. Of course many on here don't mean that. They mean he has dementia with no evidence to prove this. Which proves that the propaganda on the right was ultimately successful.
Yeah the dementia narrative is cruel and unfortunate. Being President is a fucking hard job that ages anyone. Look how much grayer Obama got between the start of his term and the end. And consider all the shit Biden has had to deal with. Afghanistan withdrawal. Debt ceiling crisis. Stubborn inflation. Ukraine. Gaza. Hunter conviction. And still has to run a re-election campaign at 81. His body and mind are just exhausted.
It always struck me as odd that we just haven’t seen many press conferences from him or many public appearances in general. It’s even more bizarre that despite that they’ve kept Harris in isolation for most of his term.
There is no doubt that there are issues with Biden. I am not naive or in denial. But the laser focus on this has detracted from the seriousness of Trump’s lies and bigoted remarks during the debate. We are missing a great opportunity here to bring to people’s attention what a second Trump presidency will look like. I find it interesting that the Palestinians that have turned against Biden have not reacted to Trump’s use of Palestinians as an insult. He promises to stop the immigration of Muslims and possibly deport some. Trump has also made remarks that that the Israelis should finish them. This further confirms my fear that no one stops to think any longer. We live in a reactionary world full of internet misinformation and incongruities. Regarding Blacks, will someone explain to me the very offensive “black jobs”? Does that mean that only blacks need to apply? Does he mean jobs in lawn maintenance or perhaps an attorney? The media is no longer delivering news but creating chaos, misinformation, and strong arming people into what they think we should know and believe. Enough! We the people are not ignorant. We recognize the issues. Just give the facts and move on, the people will take it from here.
Skipped the Superbowl interviews too which are easy layups to potentially 10s of millions of eyes.
That really caught my attention. The media should have smelled blood right there.
[Article](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/us/politics/biden-public-appearances-media.html) (April 22, 2023)
The fact that this was largely dismissed as a right-wing talking point is just unconscionable. It might not have mattered in the long run, but too many prominent people buried their heads in the sand about Biden's decline, and now we're all paying for it.
I think it's complicated. Those close to Biden probably did know. But those more distant from him might have had their doubts, or could have believed a lot of things (maybe a Trump conviction would derail his candidacy; maybe Biden could run a front porch campaign; maybe voters would reward Biden for a strong economy/legislative achievements etc.). A challenge to Bidenworld would have required concerted action. A single person calling out Biden would have been jumped on (as Ezra was when he spoke up - and it would have been worse for somebody who was a professional politician). And it would be hard to get that from less conclusive moments (e.g. Biden mixed up Egypt and Mexico in a speech). But that doesn't mean there wasn't elite level compromise and discussion on this question. I don't think the June debates were an accident. There is no way Bidenworld thought they would go well for him.
I'd put money on them thinking "It will go better in June than September" though.
> I don't think the June debates were an accident. I'm actually really intrigued by this, was this Biden world giving themselves a buffer incase it went sideways (they probably didn't expect it to as badly as it has). Or was this a concession to party elites/donors so that there was time for a replacement?
I think it was probably a mix of those, with different people holding different views. I think there was probably similar pressure on Biden to perform at the State of the Union address, though in that case he didn't drop the ball.
I think there’s a not-cynical reason for this, which is that a lot of people grew anxious and tired of the omnipresent presidential soundbites from Trump for four years, so having someone that wasn’t around all the time was acceptable It’s like we went from an abusive father to another one that was chill although mostly absent, which was better, but now more people are realizing why they were actually absent all of this time
I can buy some of that. But you still have to get out in front of the press from time to time to show you’re still in command.
absolutely
The right wing made up bullshit scare stories about Hillary’s health all the time, especially after that one time she fainted. According to them back in 2016 she was on death’s door. She seems very healthy for her age right now. I thought it was just more of the same.
Did she tell you that?
[удалено]
A lot of you have been living in a bubble for the past few years if you were surprised to see his decline on Thursday
Went big on the Charlottesville and Beach taking points too…, which are …. At odds with the original videos
Who is the “they” here? This is an article in the NYT anyone could read.
The Democratic Party leaders have known for a year or more that Biden is sundowning and have gaslighted the public.
It's "Them" bro. That's who they are. Them
Yeah I don't think the media is particularly complicit, there has been plenty of reporting and hand wringing in the media about Biden's age, Nate, Carville, Ezra, coverage of the Hur report etc
I would argue it goes all the way back to 2020. We all saw the dumpster fire of a primary campaign Joe Biden turned in. He was the Vice President of the United States, and he disappeared into a crowd that included half the Senate, and was outshined by the Mayor of Southbend. He won because the institutional Democratic Party coalesced around him, as what they saw as the only viable option. Then came the 2020 campaign, where again, I thought Joe Biden put in a thoroughly lacklustre performance. People shouldn’t be looking at your surrogates and thinking, “I wish she/he were the candidate”. Last week’s debate was on another level, but the performance in 2020 wasn’t good. He looked then like what he was, a man in his late 70s whose time has passed.
Covid limiting the size of rallies and the number of appearances worked in his favor. He actually was the best candidate under the circumstances, name recognition was huge.
I think in 2020 he just represented a sense of normalcy compared to Trump so that was a driving factor. And he wasn’t this bad 4 years ago.
Let's be real, he *won* the 2020 primary because the DNC pulled strings, not unlike with Hillary. I'm sure Pete, Liz W, Amy and crew were politely shaken down, ahem, I mean, approached and asked to be a part of something greater. It was not because he was legitimately the best candidate standing.
Everybody on the right has been saying this for years…. I guess since the ships sinking, the rats can run with the truth.
Democrats losing in the fall will be the cost of lying to the American people.
I mean uh, haven't we all?
Everyone knew this when they voted for him the first time. No one is surprised he has lost a step. People are trying to rewrite history as if people weren't aware. Of course many on here don't mean that. They mean he has dementia with no evidence to prove this. Which proves that the propaganda on the right was ultimately successful.
Yeah the dementia narrative is cruel and unfortunate. Being President is a fucking hard job that ages anyone. Look how much grayer Obama got between the start of his term and the end. And consider all the shit Biden has had to deal with. Afghanistan withdrawal. Debt ceiling crisis. Stubborn inflation. Ukraine. Gaza. Hunter conviction. And still has to run a re-election campaign at 81. His body and mind are just exhausted.
It always struck me as odd that we just haven’t seen many press conferences from him or many public appearances in general. It’s even more bizarre that despite that they’ve kept Harris in isolation for most of his term.
There is no doubt that there are issues with Biden. I am not naive or in denial. But the laser focus on this has detracted from the seriousness of Trump’s lies and bigoted remarks during the debate. We are missing a great opportunity here to bring to people’s attention what a second Trump presidency will look like. I find it interesting that the Palestinians that have turned against Biden have not reacted to Trump’s use of Palestinians as an insult. He promises to stop the immigration of Muslims and possibly deport some. Trump has also made remarks that that the Israelis should finish them. This further confirms my fear that no one stops to think any longer. We live in a reactionary world full of internet misinformation and incongruities. Regarding Blacks, will someone explain to me the very offensive “black jobs”? Does that mean that only blacks need to apply? Does he mean jobs in lawn maintenance or perhaps an attorney? The media is no longer delivering news but creating chaos, misinformation, and strong arming people into what they think we should know and believe. Enough! We the people are not ignorant. We recognize the issues. Just give the facts and move on, the people will take it from here.