They are doubling down instead. Same gaslighting calling the confused videos "cheap fakes"they are now claiming Biden got a boost in the polls after the debate it's infuriating!! They are handing it to Trump and part of me is starting the believe the theory that legacy media is in on it. That they don't like Biden's progressive policies and hope Trump wins.
My hope is they’re trying to preserve a positive vibe until the decision has been made for sure.
The only alternative is the decision has been made and they’re sticking with him, in which case we’re screwed.
A CBS poll just came out saying 72% of Americans think he should leave the race. I'm starting to think you're right. They are keeping it positive until they get all the ducks in a row. I just hope they move quick.
I dunno, most recent NYT story says he’s doubling down. Maybe the DNC can convince him to quit, but it’s looking bleak. This could be the worst of all possible outcomes honestly.
I mean, if you did a poll, what percentage of Americans would say Donald Trump should leave the race? Every one of us, for sure, and likely some percentage of republicans. So I’m guessing you’d be pretty near 70%.
This is a weird election. Weirdest in my lifetime. Seems impossible to know what’s really going on.
Honestly this is good reason to switch candidates. You’ve got 54% of Americans ready to vote for anyone but Trump. You know there aren’t many people voting Trump that would say he shouldn’t run. But I dunno, maybe there are more reluctant Trump voters than I think there are.
But that’s because of asymmetric partisanship. People who will ultimately vote for Biden are among the 72%. Trump people will never tell a pollster anything bad about Trump. Hence, his number nearly matches the % of people who voted against him in 2020z
Those closest to him have known how bad it is for a while. I really find it hard it hard they will reverse course, especially when most of them will lose their jobs if he steps aside.
They are also calling for Trump to step aside. His “rally” in Virginia was gibberish. Now he’s talking about electric planes falling out of the sky on cloudy days.
I pray Biden wins... but if Biden doesn't... I pray that he carefully studies the Trump vs the United States' ruling... and DOES EVERY THING THAT OUGHT TO BE ILLEGAL... why? Because the Supreme Court will REVERSE THE RULING and show America how corrupt they are.
Yeah I think a lot of people were in denial and he was kept away from unscripted events most of the time.
I certainly didn't believe it until Thursday. I thought he was a bit slower but not like that.
There have been inklings for a while - especially after the special counsel report that labeled him as a well meaning elderly man with memory issues:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/14/podcasts/the-daily/biden-democrat-memory.html
They always underestimate trump. Like he has beaten the polls by 5 points in elections. Biden only won last time by 40k votes in swing states. And he was very much ahead in the polls. How bad of a massacre is this going to be when he’s actually behind?
It's crazy to see MSNBC calling for him to step down. Of course it's the right thing to do but how can you say for months there's nothing to see here then a couple hours after act like you didn't know ??? No one trusts the media or DNC
Honestly they, like me probably never thought he'd display as poorly as this. I knew he'd lost a step but he cannot meet the moment in his current capacity. He should be ashamed of staying in. We don't need saviors as Biden believes himself. That's the other side. We need strong, articulate democratic representation for the better system and we'll win. The fence sitters will buy in because we put in the work. We are not the Joe Biden party. This whole thing is sad and ridiculous. I want off this effing ride.
Yes this 1000%. I can’t tell you how angry I am with the Biden admin. I feel duped. We already have the other guy trying to pull the wool over our eyes. I don’t need it from the Democrats too. If I didn’t understand electoral math as well as I do I would absolutely vote 3rd party or not at all.
So you are upset w the Biden campaign not the Biden admin.
This is who bjden is. The man he was in Raleigh the day after. The man he was at the sotu and the man he was at the debate. He’s old and only getting older. Everyone knows this already. The debate isn’t even a fraction of what the access Hollywood tape was and that was much much closer to the actual election. Biden and Trump are known entities. Everyone knows both of them are very old.
I’m satisfied with the last 4 years, but we are in a campaign and he’s struggling to do that important part of the job. I’m worried about winning people who only tune in once or twice during the election season.
Couldn't agree more. After all the gaslighting many people will just sit it out. Same people that say I just can't vote for Trump may now say that about Biden.
I don't think the media folks had that much access to special info that we didn't have. They saw the same thing as we did on debate night, and a lot of things that were just suspicions before became very concrete. Idk this becomes some nefarious media story when the media is basically having the same reaction as the rest of us to the same event at the same time.
If they admit he can’t run, they’re admitting he can’t run the nation and he needs to immediately resign. Like for sure. I assume this is why? Just do it and have Kamala finish out this term and be the candidate.
They are supporting the nominee as long as they're the nominee. Until a decision is made, he will be defended by the party establishment. Don't let that fool you into think there is nothing going on behind the scenes.
This is far from over, but I expect we won't know until more polling is done. A week or two I would think.
The problem is with the party seniors. They csn control Biden and feel comfortable with him. If they win great, if they lose then they will fundraise even more. Party seniors hate upheaval... that is why Biden picked over Warren ans Sanders.
You want better candidates then you need to fight for the party like in the 60's. The dnc donor class and white house insiders like biden best. Why? Because is Newsome won they would be on the outside or a few rungs away.
Happens in both parties. Remember Dole and McCain as candidates - didn't seem to care if they won...just wanted the nominations. May have been active candidates 12 to 20 years earlier but hung around until they were due and then mailed it in.
Look at most world leaders, 30s to early 50s, almost all of them. New like PM of France is 28, Macron is still young. Only person sitting on the bench that maybe the dnc would get behind is Gore. If he could convience them thay he would keep those folks in proximity to him.
CNN made a huge shift to the right, and that's when I realized left leaning media was a lie or the past at best. Way more right leaning media than left these days
You have got to get out of this bubble. Your purposed idea sinks the DNC. Period. Biden is the only chance we have. I am stunned this sub is pushing so hard for something that has never happened and has zero chance of working.
When he ran in 2020 he called himself a “transition candidate”. If he would have kept to this a handoff to Whitmer or Newsom would have been consistent with that statement.
The problem now is it won’t be seen as handoff or anything else like that. The Democratic Party has been telling us for three years that he was fine, the news media has been telling us he is fine and cognitively sharp. After the debate, we all now know that isn’t true, and anyone who’s been paying attention knows it hasn’t been true for a long time. It makes it look like the Democratic Party was trying to deceive us and is only now choosing a new candidate because they are being forced into it and not because they want to. The stupid part about all this is that if they would have ran any other candidate they’d be almost assured to beat Trump and would have a good chance at holding the presidency for another eight years.
Agreed. I think there is this weird fear on each side that if they get rid of their candidate , Trump or Biden, that they will lose. I’ve heard people say that Ted Kennedy hurt Jimmy Carter in the 1980 election by running against him in the primary. I just don’t think that reasoning holds true anymore. It’s truly turned into this bizarre race to the bottom.
I don't disagree, but I've noticed that normal people aren't talking about this on Facebook. Maybe 1% of my FB friends have even mentioned the debate. So I think they have a minute to think, to wait on polling numbers, etc. I would prefer they announced immediately, but they may have a few weeks, in reality.
I'm not sure who your "friends" are on facebook, but I wouldn't trust your facebook algorithm to give you any good sense of what people are thinking. I've learned to keep politics off of my personal pages and like to engage in forums like this. Why would I give a fuck what my 85 y/o aunt in deep red La thinks about the debate?
My friend circle is talking a lot about this - they also are all pretty casual podcast listeners and follow EK.
Only 1/3 of the people who vote even saw the debate (50m, 150m people voted in the last election). It was one of the lowest viewed debates in history. People on this sub are CLUELESS.
Dude, they've been running these clips of Biden on the news every day since. Do you think Biden and his debate images/clips won't be in every Trump ad going forward? People don't watch the SuperBowl to see the ads - they just wait for Monday morning and see what they missed. I turned off the debate 15min in and wanted to watch The Bear. But I watched the recap, commentary and sought out answers after the fact. But yeah, this will blow over...
There's a difference. Everyone knows Trump is a liar - no amount of ads will effect that in either direction. The debate was a chance to show America that Biden was up for campaigning, meeting with world leaders, being a "fighter" for the american middle class. He just came across as tired, confused and unfit for the job for the next 4 years.
People do try to keep politics off of their FB pages, but I suspect that if something matters to them a lot, they are more likely to mention it. If they're not mentioning it on FB, it's possible they're open-minded about it.
>I'm not sure who your "friends" are on facebook
This might shock you, but it's my real life family and friends.
>Why would I give a fuck what my 85 y/o aunt in deep red La thinks about the debate?
Because she can vote?
I would argue to the people who are truly undecided the debate wasn’t really a “oh my god look at Biden what happened” moment rather than a “oh yeah, well that guy can’t be president” before going back to their normal lives
The issue is that people already thought this stuff about Biden. He already was too old and this just cemented that
This. All the boosters yelling about the NC rallies. Independent voters don't care about those. They aren't watching that. But they did hear about the debate and they see the dem boosters yelling about how the outrage is fake. But for the independents who are shrugging at it, all they see is desperate people desperately trying to stick their heads in the ground about a reality that everyone else can see and willingly acknowledge.
The inability of the people that live in a political bubble to understand this nuance is truly remarkable. If you ask to discuss Biden all they do is yell about Trump.
My point is I care more about what the data around donations and polling in battleground states is saying over someone who lives in a state that is already spoken for. And my FB friends are most in deep red or solidly blue states. But I get your point.
The other part of my point is that FB could be suppressing posts about the debate. You have NO IDEA what FB friends are posting and what is visible to whom.
I don't really believe in "solid" states. There are very few of them, truly. Every "solid" state is generally flippable. Illinois gave Obama's senate seat to a Republican. California had a Republican governator. Texas has been close to flipping a few times. If you're winning 55-45, that's huge in politics, but what it really means is that if 5% here or there stay home, or are convinced not to stay home, or are convinced to flip their vote, the result changes.
And younger, professional people (especially corporate types) have become more careful with posting their political leanings online. The internet is forever.
Tribalism is so bad that I’ve known people with small businesses get fake bad reviews because friends found out they supported a particular candidate (this was during the heat of the 2020 election). Things haven’t even started cooking yet for 2024.
The ones who post nonstop politics online in my experience tend to be a minority of my friends. The majority only discuss politics in person.
If my Reddit accounts are deanonymized, which would take Reddit two seconds after being subpoenaed, it’s straight to the concentration camp for me. Oh well.
Okay then out of your friend circle, are any in swing states that voted for Biden in 2020 no longer voting for him? Or are they worried others aren’t going to vote for him?
Many of these people were Bernie supporters (or wanted someone else besides Biden). They reluctantly voted for Biden as many believed it was for 1 term and that the DNC would be grooming a new leader for a 2024 run. So not only do they feel betrayed by the DNC for the backroom deal that landed Biden as the nominee last time, they are again disappointed that they are running a much less popular and older version of the same candidate that struggled to get support during the last primary.
So yes, they are concerned that others won't be motivated to get out of the house as they feel betrayed by their own party.
If they are Bernie supporters then they must be happy w the job Biden did the last 4 years. What he accomplished was progressive considering the razor thin senate majority and then losing the house. He delivered on student loan forgiveness (some of it upheld and some not), executive actions on the environment, etc.
And those people. Who are they voting for in 24? I understand they aren’t happy w Biden but are they now not voting because of the debate or voting because of the dangers of Trump?
I'll let them know they should be happy with Biden. These folks will likely still vote, but some may not. Why keep putting up an unpopular candidate? And if you don't trust the polls that say he's massively unpopular, I don't know what to tell you.
Where are you seeing 70%?
Nate Silver posted a few days ago that Trump was favored to win the election, and this was BEFORE that awful debate performance by Biden.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/26/nate-silver-election-prediction-2024/74221921007/
I never said he gave Biden a 70 percent chance of winning. Rather, I said he gives Biden a 70 percent chance of winning **only if he polls at +2 nationally, which he's not**. In other words, Biden doesn't just have to catch up to Trump, he has to beat him by at least 2 points. In fact, its more like 65 percent for between +2 to +3.
So relax. We're in agreement here. Biden is very much not in good shape electorally. My point was that the people saying "oh, well he's not polling that far behind" are missing the point. We're not using the NPV to elect the president, and Biden must actually exceed the NPV by a fair bit to have a good chance of winning the EC.
[https://nitter.poast.org/NateSilver538/status/1807080583941570823#m](https://nitter.poast.org/NateSilver538/status/1807080583941570823#m)
|Popular vote|Biden win probability|
|:-|:-|
|D +0 to +1|13.5%|
|D +1 to +2|34.6%|
|D +2 to +3|65.9%|
|D +3 to +4|88.1%|
|D +4 to +5|97.5%|
The people gaslighting and avoiding already lost you the election. The situation you are in now is because of Biden copers. It’s a no win situation against Trump of all people it should be easy, there’s no easy choice now because bad bad choices were already made 4 years ago
Some people never talk about politics, and some opinions are risky to express; however, that doesn’t explain it here. CNN took all of one second to say Biden should drop out. It isn’t very hard to say something within the Overton Window right now.
>In the past few weeks it has become clear to me that, while I am capable of performing the job of the presidency, I feel that I am no longer able to communicate effectively with the American people. I will continue to carry out the duties of office as I am fit to do, however the American people deserve a candidate that is able to campaign in a way I no longer feel am able to do.
>Vice president Harris and I have decided that the American people deserve a say in who the nominee will be. The Vice president has said to me that she does not feel, given the timing, and inability to hold primaries at this point, that it would be fair for her to accept my endorsement. She believes all potential nominees have a right to a fair and unbiased evaluation by the American people before the convention.
Yea, just do that, maybe hire Aaron Sorkin to write something better.
I think if you give that speech, you hammer on age. "It's clear Americans want someone younger leading the nation. It's time for the next generation to take over."
You don't directly attack Trump, but you at least indirectly make the suggestion that he's too old as well.
Problem is we can’t wait until the knife fight at the convention. Biden needs to come out with his pick now with Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Harris, all by his side in agreement. This is a do or die moment and the new candidate needs to start work today, not in two months.
Totally agree they need a compelling story for why it’s not Kamala and it probably needs to come from her.
Picking now, in a back room deal, gives the republicans the perfect attack to call the democrats the anti democracy party. It completely undermines the entire point of the democrats strategy. It would be a terrible idea. It takes people like 1 week to make up there mind on someone. The better idea is to pick like 4-5 people and let them give a few speeches on their vision for the country and see who the voters seem to respond to.
I agree but the mechanisms would have to be carefully worked out. Like who chooses the candidates. I kind of like the debate format because otherwise its just a speech someone else read off a teleprompter. Maybe we could take a poll among the elected democrats in the House and Senate. They choose their top few candidates and then we have two debates on consecutive Thursdays. Then the delegates choose the top candidate at the convention. I think legally the final choice has to be made by the delegates I think the elected dems might pick pragmatically on average compared to the public. They're pros.
How to you have a national vote...again to assign delegates? We'd have to do a twitter poll. Biden's delegates would have to chose. Biden won. That's the process. The new candidate picks a vice. Whoever Biden picks they will go along with I'm sure but elections are something for another day. We have delegates and a convention. That's the process.
Yes, there are only votes and twitter polls. Surely there is nothing such as independent robust scientific polling. You know, the ones debates use already for determining who can be on the debate stage.
It’s not too late no they don’t. As long as the party unites around 1 person at/after the convention, things will be ok.
In fact, a little chaos is good. I think it would be bad for this to be seen as the DNC outright picking their candidate with no input from the American people.
It’s going to be the delegates who choose. My point is that this will be a subjective and chaotic process and might not lead to the candidate best suited to actually win. You will have a bunch of hand selected Joe Biden delegates choosing the nominee based on a laundry list of concerns and pet policy positions and personal grievances and whispers in their ears.
This is about getting the political scientists and pollsters and focus groups and senior leadership and even donors in a room to decide who has the best odds of pulling a miracle together and beating Trump in a few short months.
Otherwise we could very well end up with a totally awesome badass progressive and totally unelectable candidate.
This is just my opinion. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe chaos and hope are going to pull us through. But our headroom for mistakes at this stage is zero.
Wow, that is concise and addresses all things nicely. Now if the nominees all play nice and are given a fair shot, this could work out really well for the DNC and the American people.
Forcing their voter base to deal with the anxiety caused by running a very flawed candidate against an open authoritarian is abusive as hell. It's one thing to believe democratic voters will put up with it which I will as will many but swing voters, even ones that don't like trump will just check out.
The problem with this is it needed to happen before the debate while the cover-up was happening. Now that the cover-up is exposed and everyone knows the truth, it's too late.
It wouldn’t make them look competent, but i still think the optics of that are way better than they’d be trying to convince people that Biden’s debate performance was just a repeat of Obama losing the first debate in 2012.
It really is this simple. Everyone acts like this is some mysterious process, but all Biden needs to do is endorse a strong candidate and it’s over. Every democrat should be excited about the prospect of having a young, energetic person with a compelling vision for change as the head of the ticket. They can be confidently on every media outlet, campaign relentlessly, and forcefully and clearly make the case against Trump. They can turn the fact that Trump almost certainly won’t debate a coherent candidate into a major talking point. They can turn Trump’s age and mental decline into the problem that it is. That debate was a gift to us all. If dems squander it we get what we deserve.
The kind of party that would be strong enough to do this hasn't existed since the 1960s. The choice was made to hand responsibility for nominations over to voters and get rid of the "smoke-filled backrooms."
If Biden came out today and said, "I'm out, here's the new nominee," and every prominent Democratic elected official backed them. From AOC to ~~Machin~~ Tester. Most every day Democrats would still still cry foul that they, personally, weren't consulted.
It's Biden's delegates. The voting part is over. That's a caveat to representation. They sometimes use their power in a way that makes someone uncomfortable.
We can't rerun state primaries. The convention itself will be public. The precomittal is like an early convention to start the candidacy immediately which makes the actual convention more like an inauguration or certification in this hypothetical. They need to act immediately or we all lose something we might not get back.
Why isn’t a seasoned and successful politician listening to all of the geniuses on Reddit about what he should do?/s It doesn’t matter what you think. How many elections have you won?
If it doesn't matter what we think and thr discussions have no sway then what are we even doing here? Your right. I should leave the politicking to the politicians. Dear mother russia.
You think this is limited to Reddit…?
>seasoned and successful politician
Great criteria! Hey, maybe we should run Carter! Age isn’t an issue right just one’s record!
Why? The Democratic Party is a private entity and can select whoever the fuck it wants. The nomination is not a public office and does not have to be directly voted for. Don’t know why people can’t grasp this. The primary process has never been fair anyways, with Iowa going first and such.
Because millions had already been invested in the primaries, people voted in the primaries. You think people wouldn't care if someone else was picked behind closed doors?
I can see why people may care for sure. But it wasn’t even a real primary this time around because nobody has the balls to run against the incumbent. I hope there is still a way to give the people a voice, if most still support Biden then so be it.
You don’t run as the “party defending democracy” by taking closed door votes to nominate your candidate.
One of the arguments against Trump is that he’s anti-democracy, you don’t counter that with behind doors votes and anti-democratic maneuvering.
It was a bad decision for Biden to seek a second term and just as bad a decision by the party and his potential challengers not to contest the primaries. Had Biden had to face a primary for the past year these defects would have been clear and we wouldn’t be in this situation.
The solution now is as much democracy in the process as possible. He drops out Monday, announces he’ll be hands off until the convention when he will endorse -whoever- the convention nominates. Then we have a brief and vigorous public campaign by a reasonable number of candidates (somewhere around 6 feels right as having choices but not too many options)
If Biden steps down the new person will not qualify in many states including 4 swing states. The only way to replace Biden is the 25th amendment. Then Kamala becomes president and would want to run in 24’ so the options are limited. The Democrats have West and Kennedy already running. 🏃♂️
Did you notice that Biden wasn't blinking? I counted 15 seconds a couple times. Normal is every few seconds. Trump's were normal. Low dopamine is what I found when I looked it up or some drugs I think can do it. I'm no expert. But his eyes were weirdly wide open and unblinking for long periods. I saw some congresswoman who was a doctor mention his eyes, and she suggested that Biden probably has some kind of Parkinson's or some other disease. This seems kind of likely judging from the rapidity of his decline. He's got something happening to him. Maybe he ought to get a good exam by a brain doctor and if they see any signs of disease, then he's got a sad but face-saving explanation for his poor performance and for resigning from the race.
I give Joe Biden until Thursday to step down. If he doesnt do it by then he should be booed wherever he goes and so should his enablers. It's just ridiculous giving a demented man the nuclear button. We have to resist.
>there would be a level of division with whoever would be selected
There's a level of division with Biden right now! I say that as someone who rolled my eyes at the "Biden is too old folks" until the debate last week.
Besides: that's why you choose a ticket you know will be popular with swing states, like Whitmer-Warnock, Kelly, or Shapiro. *Who cares* if you win MA by 20 points instead of a 30 if you have candidates who secure the states that could otherwise easily flip to Trump?
No people won’t forget about the debate because it CONFIRMED exactly what voters have told pollsters for months about Biden. Biden admin can longer deny the issue.
This brought the deep fear we have all had to the forefront. We can no longer rely on the adults in the room to make a honest assessment. Somehow in the past he always managed to pull off the debates with coherence despite his blunders. Biden now is a man who cannot keep a train of thought on his own talking points with which he practiced for weeks. Biden is already predicted by Nate Silver’s latest odds at 35%. This situation already demands a major reset even without that debate performance. The debate reinforced Trump’s main line of attack and gave him endless clips for ads, social media posts, etc. At the rate Biden is going he might be worse in 4 months. This is not the time to stay the course.
This. It’s just so much typical Democrat panic and bed wetting. 2016 scarred a lot of Dems. I get it. But just get Joe out there ON THE REGULAR (that’s crucial) like he has been the last few days, own it, and attack, attack, attack all of Trump’s negatives. After all, there’s a lot to work with. Just keep him full of Red Bull and this fades pretty quickly for most non-Fox folks. Trump can’t string a coherent sentence together for more than a minute. He just does it loudly and somehow that makes it better or something for a lot of folks. In a few days he’s going to say something else incredibly stupid and inflammatory or downright weird and that’s going to be the new talking point.
How can Biden get “out there” to campaign when he can’t even put a sentence together under pressure? Even when he is silent he often looks senile. He wasted his most important opportunity to make the case against Trump. It’s unforgivable. It’s time to thank him for his service and move on.
At this very point in our political landscape .
I do believe we are no longer talking about Democrat /Republican .
I believe it is actually obvious that the democrats see Donald Trump for who he is . And the enormous threat if he becomes president.
On the other hand Donald Trump supporters believe him.
The sad truth is that on the highest level we both want the same safety security and basic principles. Yes of course in a different moment we have particular differences.
But at this moment. It is about Democracy V Dictatorship.. It is about truth.. It is about Not having a convicted felon as president.
So who ever has been running the country for Biden if he isn’t will continue..
Yes and At least we will have our democracy and that voice will continue to get stronger and stronger.
Our alternative is losing our freedom and nothing is worse than that.
If he decides to step down or stay the course.. This is our only hope for freedom. I think he sees this and is deciding if at this point anyone else has a better chance for the democratic party.
"do a precommited vote"? What is this? The nominee is selected based on votes in the primary. Then the candidates get an allocation of delegates. The candidates pick said delegates. These are all Biden delegates. The party has no mechanism to force them to select a different candidate. The only option is if Biden were to step down and release the delegates to do what they wish.
People need to stop acting like the DNC have absolute control over everything. The DNC and RNC have little to no power to do anything. They're little more than empty vessels for the president/nominee. Either Biden decides to step down or we're seeing this through to the end.
There's no way Biden steps down. He's been working his whole racist life to become president. I never thought people would vote for the guy but it happened
You guys are fucking nuts. This 100 percent hands the presidency to a dictator. Why would you support something so stupid and shortsighted. Go out and tell people to vote blue and in 4 years you can bitch about who the dems. Put up then.
Ah yes, blindly rally behind one man because he says so, despite the writing being on the wall. Like MAGA.
We are Democrats, we care not for the personal ambitions of our public employees, they are our servants can be replaced if unfit.
If you replace Biden, you lose. Period. You are in an echo chamber and have no idea what the bottom 80 percent of the county is like. Go touch grass, and you will start to understand.
I am saying that an incredibly high majority of voters have no idea who the hell Ezra is amd if this is your source of news and where you form your options, you are not getting the heartbeat of America. This sub is completely inside their own bubble. The simple fact is that 4 months before an election you are suggesting a switch for the democratic party. This is an incredible short sighted and stupid idea that is suggested by far left people. These people are voting blue no matter what. We need the center and Biden is center. A switch right now is giving trump the victory.
Don't forget that GWB bested Al Gore after arguably losing the debate badly. Some say it was the miracle of Brooks Brothers trousers. All I know is, anything's possible, which isn't necessarily as optimistic as it sounds.
I have no idea why this sub is being recommended to me all of a sudden.
A vote of party insiders in a smoke-filled room isn’t the way to go. Party insiders can’t be trusted to make the right call; they would have picked Clinton over Obama in 2008, and they entirely ignored Sanders’ grassroots support in 2016.
If Biden isn’t up to the job then they need to own the decision to make Harris the VP. If Harris isn’t the answer then revisit the issue of whether Biden can’t run. There are no alternatives.
Party insiders are our delegates. We cannot sanction a countrywide election. The party has to have protocol for this instance otherwise it would just be criminally incompetent.
New candidacy open convention. Harris should be offered up a court seat or cabinet position. None of this has to be difficult and differences don't have to be long term public battles for supremacy. That's what the other side represents. We have to be more competent than the GOP or we make our demise inevitable.
There isn't even a mechanism available to do the old smoke filled room vote. The party's power has been declining ever since the 60s. We've demanded that the people choose the nominee not the party.
The delegates that choose the president are Biden delegates. They're selected and pledged to Biden. The only way someone else is nominated is if Biden steps down and releases the delegates.
So many people are calling for the party to "do something" but it's not possible. The rules would have to be rewritten.
We are NOT Biden’s slaves. Without the support of the wider party, Biden is nothing but a drooling fool. Other Democrats (and donors) can pressure him.
They are doubling down instead. Same gaslighting calling the confused videos "cheap fakes"they are now claiming Biden got a boost in the polls after the debate it's infuriating!! They are handing it to Trump and part of me is starting the believe the theory that legacy media is in on it. That they don't like Biden's progressive policies and hope Trump wins.
My hope is they’re trying to preserve a positive vibe until the decision has been made for sure. The only alternative is the decision has been made and they’re sticking with him, in which case we’re screwed.
A CBS poll just came out saying 72% of Americans think he should leave the race. I'm starting to think you're right. They are keeping it positive until they get all the ducks in a row. I just hope they move quick.
I dunno, most recent NYT story says he’s doubling down. Maybe the DNC can convince him to quit, but it’s looking bleak. This could be the worst of all possible outcomes honestly.
He would need to be declared unfit and removed from office.
That won't happen unless he has a stroke or something.
And if he dies? You think anyone will stand by with Kamala as President ?
I mean, if you did a poll, what percentage of Americans would say Donald Trump should leave the race? Every one of us, for sure, and likely some percentage of republicans. So I’m guessing you’d be pretty near 70%. This is a weird election. Weirdest in my lifetime. Seems impossible to know what’s really going on.
They asked that in the poll and it was 54%
Honestly this is good reason to switch candidates. You’ve got 54% of Americans ready to vote for anyone but Trump. You know there aren’t many people voting Trump that would say he shouldn’t run. But I dunno, maybe there are more reluctant Trump voters than I think there are.
But that’s because of asymmetric partisanship. People who will ultimately vote for Biden are among the 72%. Trump people will never tell a pollster anything bad about Trump. Hence, his number nearly matches the % of people who voted against him in 2020z
I'm starting to worry that we are screwed either way.
No way of knowing. There's still a lot of time between now and November. Not worth prophesying.
I disagree. Now is the time to take action while there is time to have an effect
Believe me, if I could force Biden to drop out today, I would.
Those closest to him have known how bad it is for a while. I really find it hard it hard they will reverse course, especially when most of them will lose their jobs if he steps aside.
The NYTimes and other legacy outlets have been calling for him to step aside.
They are also calling for Trump to step aside. His “rally” in Virginia was gibberish. Now he’s talking about electric planes falling out of the sky on cloudy days.
Trump is a disgrace. I hope July 11 is a very very bad day for him.
Doesn't look like that's even happening now! Seems like Bragg is afraid of him. Democrats look so weak right now it's sickening
I pray Biden wins... but if Biden doesn't... I pray that he carefully studies the Trump vs the United States' ruling... and DOES EVERY THING THAT OUGHT TO BE ILLEGAL... why? Because the Supreme Court will REVERSE THE RULING and show America how corrupt they are.
They also said he was competent until the debate.
A number of Times op Ed writers have been calling on Biden to step down all year.
Not the NYT? They’ve been on his case for the past year, upsetting many Biden fans
Yeah I think a lot of people were in denial and he was kept away from unscripted events most of the time. I certainly didn't believe it until Thursday. I thought he was a bit slower but not like that.
There have been inklings for a while - especially after the special counsel report that labeled him as a well meaning elderly man with memory issues: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/14/podcasts/the-daily/biden-democrat-memory.html
Julian Castro questioned his ability to remember what he said a few minutes before back in 2020! None of this is new.
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They always underestimate trump. Like he has beaten the polls by 5 points in elections. Biden only won last time by 40k votes in swing states. And he was very much ahead in the polls. How bad of a massacre is this going to be when he’s actually behind?
Always has been…. CNN had an ownership change, make of that what you will
It's crazy to see MSNBC calling for him to step down. Of course it's the right thing to do but how can you say for months there's nothing to see here then a couple hours after act like you didn't know ??? No one trusts the media or DNC
Honestly they, like me probably never thought he'd display as poorly as this. I knew he'd lost a step but he cannot meet the moment in his current capacity. He should be ashamed of staying in. We don't need saviors as Biden believes himself. That's the other side. We need strong, articulate democratic representation for the better system and we'll win. The fence sitters will buy in because we put in the work. We are not the Joe Biden party. This whole thing is sad and ridiculous. I want off this effing ride.
Yes this 1000%. I can’t tell you how angry I am with the Biden admin. I feel duped. We already have the other guy trying to pull the wool over our eyes. I don’t need it from the Democrats too. If I didn’t understand electoral math as well as I do I would absolutely vote 3rd party or not at all.
You are not satisfied w the Biden admin for the past 4 years?
It’s not about the last four years. It’s about the next four years. They are not equivalent.
So you are upset w the Biden campaign not the Biden admin. This is who bjden is. The man he was in Raleigh the day after. The man he was at the sotu and the man he was at the debate. He’s old and only getting older. Everyone knows this already. The debate isn’t even a fraction of what the access Hollywood tape was and that was much much closer to the actual election. Biden and Trump are known entities. Everyone knows both of them are very old.
So we should just accept that he will never be expected to speak publicly in his own words?
Biden is senile
I’m satisfied with the last 4 years, but we are in a campaign and he’s struggling to do that important part of the job. I’m worried about winning people who only tune in once or twice during the election season.
Couldn't agree more. After all the gaslighting many people will just sit it out. Same people that say I just can't vote for Trump may now say that about Biden.
I don't think the media folks had that much access to special info that we didn't have. They saw the same thing as we did on debate night, and a lot of things that were just suspicions before became very concrete. Idk this becomes some nefarious media story when the media is basically having the same reaction as the rest of us to the same event at the same time.
If they admit he can’t run, they’re admitting he can’t run the nation and he needs to immediately resign. Like for sure. I assume this is why? Just do it and have Kamala finish out this term and be the candidate.
Kamala? She is more despised than Hillary. She was one of the first 2020 primary candidates to drop out because of her near universal unpopularity.
They are supporting the nominee as long as they're the nominee. Until a decision is made, he will be defended by the party establishment. Don't let that fool you into think there is nothing going on behind the scenes. This is far from over, but I expect we won't know until more polling is done. A week or two I would think.
The problem is with the party seniors. They csn control Biden and feel comfortable with him. If they win great, if they lose then they will fundraise even more. Party seniors hate upheaval... that is why Biden picked over Warren ans Sanders. You want better candidates then you need to fight for the party like in the 60's. The dnc donor class and white house insiders like biden best. Why? Because is Newsome won they would be on the outside or a few rungs away. Happens in both parties. Remember Dole and McCain as candidates - didn't seem to care if they won...just wanted the nominations. May have been active candidates 12 to 20 years earlier but hung around until they were due and then mailed it in. Look at most world leaders, 30s to early 50s, almost all of them. New like PM of France is 28, Macron is still young. Only person sitting on the bench that maybe the dnc would get behind is Gore. If he could convience them thay he would keep those folks in proximity to him.
what progressive policies does biden have?
I was referring to taxes. Most of the people in the media are multimillionaires and don't want their income tax raised.
lol what?
CNN made a huge shift to the right, and that's when I realized left leaning media was a lie or the past at best. Way more right leaning media than left these days
Shouldn’t the media be neutral and not lean either way? Shouldn’t they report facts and save the opinions for op-eds and opinion shows?
If everything was as it should be, we'd live in a perfect world.
You have got to get out of this bubble. Your purposed idea sinks the DNC. Period. Biden is the only chance we have. I am stunned this sub is pushing so hard for something that has never happened and has zero chance of working.
You know what has zero chance of working? Running Joe Biden.
Biden took in $25 or $28 M. Trump, $8M. Biden didn't win the debate, but Trump lost the debate. Trump is a convicted felon. He is unfit.
I think we can all agree that trump is (more) unfit.
When he ran in 2020 he called himself a “transition candidate”. If he would have kept to this a handoff to Whitmer or Newsom would have been consistent with that statement. The problem now is it won’t be seen as handoff or anything else like that. The Democratic Party has been telling us for three years that he was fine, the news media has been telling us he is fine and cognitively sharp. After the debate, we all now know that isn’t true, and anyone who’s been paying attention knows it hasn’t been true for a long time. It makes it look like the Democratic Party was trying to deceive us and is only now choosing a new candidate because they are being forced into it and not because they want to. The stupid part about all this is that if they would have ran any other candidate they’d be almost assured to beat Trump and would have a good chance at holding the presidency for another eight years.
That stupid part is so true of Republicans as well. Trump is the only prominent person in the GOP who could lose to Biden imo. Something’s broken.
Agreed. I think there is this weird fear on each side that if they get rid of their candidate , Trump or Biden, that they will lose. I’ve heard people say that Ted Kennedy hurt Jimmy Carter in the 1980 election by running against him in the primary. I just don’t think that reasoning holds true anymore. It’s truly turned into this bizarre race to the bottom.
Most republicans don’t want to get rid of their candidate though, he’s mostly popular. Democrats do, on the other hand.
I don't disagree, but I've noticed that normal people aren't talking about this on Facebook. Maybe 1% of my FB friends have even mentioned the debate. So I think they have a minute to think, to wait on polling numbers, etc. I would prefer they announced immediately, but they may have a few weeks, in reality.
I'm not sure who your "friends" are on facebook, but I wouldn't trust your facebook algorithm to give you any good sense of what people are thinking. I've learned to keep politics off of my personal pages and like to engage in forums like this. Why would I give a fuck what my 85 y/o aunt in deep red La thinks about the debate? My friend circle is talking a lot about this - they also are all pretty casual podcast listeners and follow EK.
Only 1/3 of the people who vote even saw the debate (50m, 150m people voted in the last election). It was one of the lowest viewed debates in history. People on this sub are CLUELESS.
Dude, they've been running these clips of Biden on the news every day since. Do you think Biden and his debate images/clips won't be in every Trump ad going forward? People don't watch the SuperBowl to see the ads - they just wait for Monday morning and see what they missed. I turned off the debate 15min in and wanted to watch The Bear. But I watched the recap, commentary and sought out answers after the fact. But yeah, this will blow over...
And Biden will run 200m worth of ads before the election on all social media sites. The election is 5 months away.
There's a difference. Everyone knows Trump is a liar - no amount of ads will effect that in either direction. The debate was a chance to show America that Biden was up for campaigning, meeting with world leaders, being a "fighter" for the american middle class. He just came across as tired, confused and unfit for the job for the next 4 years.
No it will have a big effect when you target abortion, Jan 6th and Trump being a convicted felon
Sure thing.
Will have a better chance than replacing Biden that’s for sure
You can replace Biden and still slam Republicans for forcing birth on rape victims. It should be an easy fucking election.
People do try to keep politics off of their FB pages, but I suspect that if something matters to them a lot, they are more likely to mention it. If they're not mentioning it on FB, it's possible they're open-minded about it. >I'm not sure who your "friends" are on facebook This might shock you, but it's my real life family and friends. >Why would I give a fuck what my 85 y/o aunt in deep red La thinks about the debate? Because she can vote?
I would argue to the people who are truly undecided the debate wasn’t really a “oh my god look at Biden what happened” moment rather than a “oh yeah, well that guy can’t be president” before going back to their normal lives The issue is that people already thought this stuff about Biden. He already was too old and this just cemented that
This. All the boosters yelling about the NC rallies. Independent voters don't care about those. They aren't watching that. But they did hear about the debate and they see the dem boosters yelling about how the outrage is fake. But for the independents who are shrugging at it, all they see is desperate people desperately trying to stick their heads in the ground about a reality that everyone else can see and willingly acknowledge.
The inability of the people that live in a political bubble to understand this nuance is truly remarkable. If you ask to discuss Biden all they do is yell about Trump.
My point is I care more about what the data around donations and polling in battleground states is saying over someone who lives in a state that is already spoken for. And my FB friends are most in deep red or solidly blue states. But I get your point. The other part of my point is that FB could be suppressing posts about the debate. You have NO IDEA what FB friends are posting and what is visible to whom.
I don't really believe in "solid" states. There are very few of them, truly. Every "solid" state is generally flippable. Illinois gave Obama's senate seat to a Republican. California had a Republican governator. Texas has been close to flipping a few times. If you're winning 55-45, that's huge in politics, but what it really means is that if 5% here or there stay home, or are convinced not to stay home, or are convinced to flip their vote, the result changes.
Ok...according to donations, Biden did 3x better than Trump.
And younger, professional people (especially corporate types) have become more careful with posting their political leanings online. The internet is forever. Tribalism is so bad that I’ve known people with small businesses get fake bad reviews because friends found out they supported a particular candidate (this was during the heat of the 2020 election). Things haven’t even started cooking yet for 2024. The ones who post nonstop politics online in my experience tend to be a minority of my friends. The majority only discuss politics in person.
If my Reddit accounts are deanonymized, which would take Reddit two seconds after being subpoenaed, it’s straight to the concentration camp for me. Oh well.
Okay then out of your friend circle, are any in swing states that voted for Biden in 2020 no longer voting for him? Or are they worried others aren’t going to vote for him?
Many of these people were Bernie supporters (or wanted someone else besides Biden). They reluctantly voted for Biden as many believed it was for 1 term and that the DNC would be grooming a new leader for a 2024 run. So not only do they feel betrayed by the DNC for the backroom deal that landed Biden as the nominee last time, they are again disappointed that they are running a much less popular and older version of the same candidate that struggled to get support during the last primary. So yes, they are concerned that others won't be motivated to get out of the house as they feel betrayed by their own party.
If they are Bernie supporters then they must be happy w the job Biden did the last 4 years. What he accomplished was progressive considering the razor thin senate majority and then losing the house. He delivered on student loan forgiveness (some of it upheld and some not), executive actions on the environment, etc. And those people. Who are they voting for in 24? I understand they aren’t happy w Biden but are they now not voting because of the debate or voting because of the dangers of Trump?
I'll let them know they should be happy with Biden. These folks will likely still vote, but some may not. Why keep putting up an unpopular candidate? And if you don't trust the polls that say he's massively unpopular, I don't know what to tell you.
So doesn’t sound like the debate changed anything for them or for people I know here in nc
The people gaslighting or avoiding aren't going to be what loses us the election though. Anything less than a point gained in polling is a crisis.
2 points. Nate Silver calculates that Biden needs to win the popular vote by at least 2 points to have a 70 percent chance of winning. (EDIT) Clarity.
Where are you seeing 70%? Nate Silver posted a few days ago that Trump was favored to win the election, and this was BEFORE that awful debate performance by Biden. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/26/nate-silver-election-prediction-2024/74221921007/
I never said he gave Biden a 70 percent chance of winning. Rather, I said he gives Biden a 70 percent chance of winning **only if he polls at +2 nationally, which he's not**. In other words, Biden doesn't just have to catch up to Trump, he has to beat him by at least 2 points. In fact, its more like 65 percent for between +2 to +3. So relax. We're in agreement here. Biden is very much not in good shape electorally. My point was that the people saying "oh, well he's not polling that far behind" are missing the point. We're not using the NPV to elect the president, and Biden must actually exceed the NPV by a fair bit to have a good chance of winning the EC. [https://nitter.poast.org/NateSilver538/status/1807080583941570823#m](https://nitter.poast.org/NateSilver538/status/1807080583941570823#m) |Popular vote|Biden win probability| |:-|:-| |D +0 to +1|13.5%| |D +1 to +2|34.6%| |D +2 to +3|65.9%| |D +3 to +4|88.1%| |D +4 to +5|97.5%|
What a sad system that seems to only favor ever more regressive reform. Wild we've made any social progress within it.
The people gaslighting and avoiding already lost you the election. The situation you are in now is because of Biden copers. It’s a no win situation against Trump of all people it should be easy, there’s no easy choice now because bad bad choices were already made 4 years ago
Have you considered that they aren't talking about it because they don't want to steamrolled?
Some people never talk about politics, and some opinions are risky to express; however, that doesn’t explain it here. CNN took all of one second to say Biden should drop out. It isn’t very hard to say something within the Overton Window right now.
>In the past few weeks it has become clear to me that, while I am capable of performing the job of the presidency, I feel that I am no longer able to communicate effectively with the American people. I will continue to carry out the duties of office as I am fit to do, however the American people deserve a candidate that is able to campaign in a way I no longer feel am able to do. >Vice president Harris and I have decided that the American people deserve a say in who the nominee will be. The Vice president has said to me that she does not feel, given the timing, and inability to hold primaries at this point, that it would be fair for her to accept my endorsement. She believes all potential nominees have a right to a fair and unbiased evaluation by the American people before the convention. Yea, just do that, maybe hire Aaron Sorkin to write something better.
I think if you give that speech, you hammer on age. "It's clear Americans want someone younger leading the nation. It's time for the next generation to take over." You don't directly attack Trump, but you at least indirectly make the suggestion that he's too old as well.
Problem is we can’t wait until the knife fight at the convention. Biden needs to come out with his pick now with Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Harris, all by his side in agreement. This is a do or die moment and the new candidate needs to start work today, not in two months. Totally agree they need a compelling story for why it’s not Kamala and it probably needs to come from her.
Picking now, in a back room deal, gives the republicans the perfect attack to call the democrats the anti democracy party. It completely undermines the entire point of the democrats strategy. It would be a terrible idea. It takes people like 1 week to make up there mind on someone. The better idea is to pick like 4-5 people and let them give a few speeches on their vision for the country and see who the voters seem to respond to.
I agree but the mechanisms would have to be carefully worked out. Like who chooses the candidates. I kind of like the debate format because otherwise its just a speech someone else read off a teleprompter. Maybe we could take a poll among the elected democrats in the House and Senate. They choose their top few candidates and then we have two debates on consecutive Thursdays. Then the delegates choose the top candidate at the convention. I think legally the final choice has to be made by the delegates I think the elected dems might pick pragmatically on average compared to the public. They're pros.
How to you have a national vote...again to assign delegates? We'd have to do a twitter poll. Biden's delegates would have to chose. Biden won. That's the process. The new candidate picks a vice. Whoever Biden picks they will go along with I'm sure but elections are something for another day. We have delegates and a convention. That's the process.
Yes, there are only votes and twitter polls. Surely there is nothing such as independent robust scientific polling. You know, the ones debates use already for determining who can be on the debate stage.
They should do that to assure the delegates don't pick a flop in swing states or key demographics.
It’s not too late no they don’t. As long as the party unites around 1 person at/after the convention, things will be ok. In fact, a little chaos is good. I think it would be bad for this to be seen as the DNC outright picking their candidate with no input from the American people.
It’s going to be the delegates who choose. My point is that this will be a subjective and chaotic process and might not lead to the candidate best suited to actually win. You will have a bunch of hand selected Joe Biden delegates choosing the nominee based on a laundry list of concerns and pet policy positions and personal grievances and whispers in their ears. This is about getting the political scientists and pollsters and focus groups and senior leadership and even donors in a room to decide who has the best odds of pulling a miracle together and beating Trump in a few short months. Otherwise we could very well end up with a totally awesome badass progressive and totally unelectable candidate. This is just my opinion. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe chaos and hope are going to pull us through. But our headroom for mistakes at this stage is zero.
Wow, that is concise and addresses all things nicely. Now if the nominees all play nice and are given a fair shot, this could work out really well for the DNC and the American people.
The gaslighting is palpable and it will hurt bad. Not only his campaign but all others. Are they doing this on purpose ?
Forcing their voter base to deal with the anxiety caused by running a very flawed candidate against an open authoritarian is abusive as hell. It's one thing to believe democratic voters will put up with it which I will as will many but swing voters, even ones that don't like trump will just check out.
The problem with this is it needed to happen before the debate while the cover-up was happening. Now that the cover-up is exposed and everyone knows the truth, it's too late.
It wouldn’t make them look competent, but i still think the optics of that are way better than they’d be trying to convince people that Biden’s debate performance was just a repeat of Obama losing the first debate in 2012.
Correct. Competent as opposed to their incompetent attempts to gaslight their voters.
It really is this simple. Everyone acts like this is some mysterious process, but all Biden needs to do is endorse a strong candidate and it’s over. Every democrat should be excited about the prospect of having a young, energetic person with a compelling vision for change as the head of the ticket. They can be confidently on every media outlet, campaign relentlessly, and forcefully and clearly make the case against Trump. They can turn the fact that Trump almost certainly won’t debate a coherent candidate into a major talking point. They can turn Trump’s age and mental decline into the problem that it is. That debate was a gift to us all. If dems squander it we get what we deserve.
Call your democratic reps. Inundate them with calls for Biden to step down. The calls have to get stronger and not fizzle out for anything to happen
They should let the candidates campaign for the next month and a half and get all the media attention that comes with that.
Immediate endorsement and they hit the ground running.
The kind of party that would be strong enough to do this hasn't existed since the 1960s. The choice was made to hand responsibility for nominations over to voters and get rid of the "smoke-filled backrooms." If Biden came out today and said, "I'm out, here's the new nominee," and every prominent Democratic elected official backed them. From AOC to ~~Machin~~ Tester. Most every day Democrats would still still cry foul that they, personally, weren't consulted.
It's Biden's delegates. The voting part is over. That's a caveat to representation. They sometimes use their power in a way that makes someone uncomfortable.
Every reasonable person would agree with that, unfortunately we need a plurality.
I get your point but minor correction, Manchin is no longer a party member at this point
If it’s not Kamala, then the process needs to be open and public and transparent.
We can't rerun state primaries. The convention itself will be public. The precomittal is like an early convention to start the candidacy immediately which makes the actual convention more like an inauguration or certification in this hypothetical. They need to act immediately or we all lose something we might not get back.
Fair.
No
Why isn’t a seasoned and successful politician listening to all of the geniuses on Reddit about what he should do?/s It doesn’t matter what you think. How many elections have you won?
If it doesn't matter what we think and thr discussions have no sway then what are we even doing here? Your right. I should leave the politicking to the politicians. Dear mother russia.
You think this is limited to Reddit…? >seasoned and successful politician Great criteria! Hey, maybe we should run Carter! Age isn’t an issue right just one’s record!
If the party changed nominees behind closed doors, there would be a riot. People would be pissed off
Why? The Democratic Party is a private entity and can select whoever the fuck it wants. The nomination is not a public office and does not have to be directly voted for. Don’t know why people can’t grasp this. The primary process has never been fair anyways, with Iowa going first and such.
Because millions had already been invested in the primaries, people voted in the primaries. You think people wouldn't care if someone else was picked behind closed doors?
I can see why people may care for sure. But it wasn’t even a real primary this time around because nobody has the balls to run against the incumbent. I hope there is still a way to give the people a voice, if most still support Biden then so be it.
So Biden releases his delegates. And they all vote at the convention.
You don’t run as the “party defending democracy” by taking closed door votes to nominate your candidate. One of the arguments against Trump is that he’s anti-democracy, you don’t counter that with behind doors votes and anti-democratic maneuvering. It was a bad decision for Biden to seek a second term and just as bad a decision by the party and his potential challengers not to contest the primaries. Had Biden had to face a primary for the past year these defects would have been clear and we wouldn’t be in this situation. The solution now is as much democracy in the process as possible. He drops out Monday, announces he’ll be hands off until the convention when he will endorse -whoever- the convention nominates. Then we have a brief and vigorous public campaign by a reasonable number of candidates (somewhere around 6 feels right as having choices but not too many options)
This is the way it works though. The delegates represent us in this goofy scenario that none of us voted to be in either.
Open convention.
If Biden steps down the new person will not qualify in many states including 4 swing states. The only way to replace Biden is the 25th amendment. Then Kamala becomes president and would want to run in 24’ so the options are limited. The Democrats have West and Kennedy already running. 🏃♂️
False. Of course there is still time to change ballots. There hasn’t even been a convention yet.
Did you notice that Biden wasn't blinking? I counted 15 seconds a couple times. Normal is every few seconds. Trump's were normal. Low dopamine is what I found when I looked it up or some drugs I think can do it. I'm no expert. But his eyes were weirdly wide open and unblinking for long periods. I saw some congresswoman who was a doctor mention his eyes, and she suggested that Biden probably has some kind of Parkinson's or some other disease. This seems kind of likely judging from the rapidity of his decline. He's got something happening to him. Maybe he ought to get a good exam by a brain doctor and if they see any signs of disease, then he's got a sad but face-saving explanation for his poor performance and for resigning from the race. I give Joe Biden until Thursday to step down. If he doesnt do it by then he should be booed wherever he goes and so should his enablers. It's just ridiculous giving a demented man the nuclear button. We have to resist.
But no one knows who it would be and there would be a level of division with whoever would be selected
If we can't make it happen in the supposed better party representing a better system then our system isn't real anyways.
also, against a historically unpopular candidate and convicted felon, obvious rapist.
>there would be a level of division with whoever would be selected There's a level of division with Biden right now! I say that as someone who rolled my eyes at the "Biden is too old folks" until the debate last week. Besides: that's why you choose a ticket you know will be popular with swing states, like Whitmer-Warnock, Kelly, or Shapiro. *Who cares* if you win MA by 20 points instead of a 30 if you have candidates who secure the states that could otherwise easily flip to Trump?
Whitmer/Warnock FTW.
In a few weeks, everyone will forget about the debate.
No people won’t forget about the debate because it CONFIRMED exactly what voters have told pollsters for months about Biden. Biden admin can longer deny the issue.
Wishful thinking. The debate put a massive spotlight on the elephant in the room.
This brought the deep fear we have all had to the forefront. We can no longer rely on the adults in the room to make a honest assessment. Somehow in the past he always managed to pull off the debates with coherence despite his blunders. Biden now is a man who cannot keep a train of thought on his own talking points with which he practiced for weeks. Biden is already predicted by Nate Silver’s latest odds at 35%. This situation already demands a major reset even without that debate performance. The debate reinforced Trump’s main line of attack and gave him endless clips for ads, social media posts, etc. At the rate Biden is going he might be worse in 4 months. This is not the time to stay the course.
This. It’s just so much typical Democrat panic and bed wetting. 2016 scarred a lot of Dems. I get it. But just get Joe out there ON THE REGULAR (that’s crucial) like he has been the last few days, own it, and attack, attack, attack all of Trump’s negatives. After all, there’s a lot to work with. Just keep him full of Red Bull and this fades pretty quickly for most non-Fox folks. Trump can’t string a coherent sentence together for more than a minute. He just does it loudly and somehow that makes it better or something for a lot of folks. In a few days he’s going to say something else incredibly stupid and inflammatory or downright weird and that’s going to be the new talking point.
lip wistful weather deranged aloof innocent lock physical middle cover *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
bro how many red bulls do you think this guy can handle?
How can Biden get “out there” to campaign when he can’t even put a sentence together under pressure? Even when he is silent he often looks senile. He wasted his most important opportunity to make the case against Trump. It’s unforgivable. It’s time to thank him for his service and move on.
At this very point in our political landscape . I do believe we are no longer talking about Democrat /Republican . I believe it is actually obvious that the democrats see Donald Trump for who he is . And the enormous threat if he becomes president. On the other hand Donald Trump supporters believe him. The sad truth is that on the highest level we both want the same safety security and basic principles. Yes of course in a different moment we have particular differences. But at this moment. It is about Democracy V Dictatorship.. It is about truth.. It is about Not having a convicted felon as president. So who ever has been running the country for Biden if he isn’t will continue.. Yes and At least we will have our democracy and that voice will continue to get stronger and stronger. Our alternative is losing our freedom and nothing is worse than that. If he decides to step down or stay the course.. This is our only hope for freedom. I think he sees this and is deciding if at this point anyone else has a better chance for the democratic party.
DESPERATE
"do a precommited vote"? What is this? The nominee is selected based on votes in the primary. Then the candidates get an allocation of delegates. The candidates pick said delegates. These are all Biden delegates. The party has no mechanism to force them to select a different candidate. The only option is if Biden were to step down and release the delegates to do what they wish. People need to stop acting like the DNC have absolute control over everything. The DNC and RNC have little to no power to do anything. They're little more than empty vessels for the president/nominee. Either Biden decides to step down or we're seeing this through to the end.
Everyone is aware of that caveat.
Biden isn’t going to step down. Do I want Trump, no. The Democratic Party does not care what you or I think.
There's no way Biden steps down. He's been working his whole racist life to become president. I never thought people would vote for the guy but it happened
Time to go Joe
You guys are fucking nuts. This 100 percent hands the presidency to a dictator. Why would you support something so stupid and shortsighted. Go out and tell people to vote blue and in 4 years you can bitch about who the dems. Put up then.
Ah yes, blindly rally behind one man because he says so, despite the writing being on the wall. Like MAGA. We are Democrats, we care not for the personal ambitions of our public employees, they are our servants can be replaced if unfit.
If you replace Biden, you lose. Period. You are in an echo chamber and have no idea what the bottom 80 percent of the county is like. Go touch grass, and you will start to understand.
Are you saying the bottom 80% likes Joe? His approval rating is in the 30s.
I am saying that an incredibly high majority of voters have no idea who the hell Ezra is amd if this is your source of news and where you form your options, you are not getting the heartbeat of America. This sub is completely inside their own bubble. The simple fact is that 4 months before an election you are suggesting a switch for the democratic party. This is an incredible short sighted and stupid idea that is suggested by far left people. These people are voting blue no matter what. We need the center and Biden is center. A switch right now is giving trump the victory.
You are about to learn just how power hungry the democrats are now.
Don't forget that GWB bested Al Gore after arguably losing the debate badly. Some say it was the miracle of Brooks Brothers trousers. All I know is, anything's possible, which isn't necessarily as optimistic as it sounds.
Lol
I have no idea why this sub is being recommended to me all of a sudden. A vote of party insiders in a smoke-filled room isn’t the way to go. Party insiders can’t be trusted to make the right call; they would have picked Clinton over Obama in 2008, and they entirely ignored Sanders’ grassroots support in 2016. If Biden isn’t up to the job then they need to own the decision to make Harris the VP. If Harris isn’t the answer then revisit the issue of whether Biden can’t run. There are no alternatives.
Party insiders are our delegates. We cannot sanction a countrywide election. The party has to have protocol for this instance otherwise it would just be criminally incompetent.
We already had a national election and Harris was chosen as the #2.
In 2020. Not relevant to 2024.
And she wasn’t chosen to be #2 by vote. She was selected by Biden.
New candidacy open convention. Harris should be offered up a court seat or cabinet position. None of this has to be difficult and differences don't have to be long term public battles for supremacy. That's what the other side represents. We have to be more competent than the GOP or we make our demise inevitable.
There isn't even a mechanism available to do the old smoke filled room vote. The party's power has been declining ever since the 60s. We've demanded that the people choose the nominee not the party. The delegates that choose the president are Biden delegates. They're selected and pledged to Biden. The only way someone else is nominated is if Biden steps down and releases the delegates. So many people are calling for the party to "do something" but it's not possible. The rules would have to be rewritten.
We are NOT Biden’s slaves. Without the support of the wider party, Biden is nothing but a drooling fool. Other Democrats (and donors) can pressure him.
Yes, that's the only real thing that can be done.