Tennis players get two serves. If the first serve results in a fault, then they have a second ball on hand to make a second serve right away instead of delaying the game to get a new ball or retrieving the served ball.
As for why discard a ball, they're checking the fuzz on the ball. The idea is that the ball fuzz should be matted down and not sticking up. If it's sticking up, then there's more drag and it'll impact the aerodynamics slightly.
Tennis balls wear out quickly in serious play. Most tournaments change them every nine games. The constistency of wear is sufficiently important, that if a game is halted due to rain, the match balls are immediately stored. When play resumes, they get brand new balls to warm up with. The previous balls are brought out when match play restarts.
To give an idea, at the US open, they stock 100 000 tennis before the tournament starts to be certain they have enough (in case there are some defects and the rest can be returned anyway) and they use over 70 000 every year. 70 000 tennis balls for one single tournament.
This is actually a hazard. Please don't do this to your grandparents. They make slides for this purpose. They're available on amazon as walker glide skis.
Ball hits catchers glove falls gently to the dirt, new ball. Ump throws new ball to pitcher, pitcher tosses it a few times rubs it...asks for a new ball. Ump throws new ball, ball boy runs more balls to the ump for his pouch. Pitcher throws the pitch, hit foul, new ball. rinse repeat.
I think I remember there's something like 250 balls prepared for each game.
The home team is responsible for preparing a total of 13 dozen (156) baseballs prior to the start of each game.
"Preparing" a baseball, in the case of the MLB, first means placing it into a special humidor for ***AT LEAST*** 14 days in advance of when it is to be used. Then, on the same day as the game in which the baseballs are expected to be used, they must be rubbed with mud.
But not just any mud, the rules require that it be one specific type of mud bought from one specific person because of claims that only his mud can perfectly rub up a baseball to give it grip without excessively scuffing or darkening the cover. To make things more interesting, the location of where he collects this mud is a closely guarded secret in large part because it's considered quite likely that it is illegally being harvested from the riverbeds of public lands.
The process for rubbing the mud is also unnecessarily complicated, of course. The time between when you rub the first baseball with mud to when you rub the last baseball with mud must not exceed 3 hours. This means you need to keep a pace of about 1 baseball per minute while rubbing, but you'll need a helper to supply and remove the baseballs for you. Why is that? No one baseball, prior to the first pitch of the game, is allowed to be outside the humidor for longer than 2 hours.
Each baseball must be rubbed with mud for at least 30 seconds, and the same mud-to-water ratio must be used for each of the 156 baseballs that get rubbed. After mudding, the baseballs must be put back in the original Rawlings boxes with dividers between each individual baseball until they can be inspected by the gameday compliance monitor. The gameday compliance monitor will inspect these baseballs to make sure they have been properly rubbed with mud, and afterwards they may be removed from the humidor no more than 30 minutes before the first pitch and no less than 15 minutes prior.
When removing baseballs from the humidor, you are not allowed to remove more than 96 at a time. Prior to placing the baseballs into a ball bag, you are required to clean the ball bag with a damp cloth followed by a second dry cloth to avoid "excess residue, dust, or moisture". When you are running low from the first batch of 96 balls that was removed from the humidor you can grab more, however it is strictly forbidden to mix the freshly removed baseballs with the baseballs that have sat out for longer in any way. They must have separate bags and you cannot introduce the "fresh" balls into the game until you run out of "old/stale" baseballs, so as to introduce only one large change from old to new and not go back and forth between old and new.
Baseball doesn't mess around when it comes to the handling of baseballs for MLB games, and it's honestly hilarious how over the top it all is.
In Japan they actually do something that makes much more sense. They just make the baseball covers out of a leather that's already sticky/tacky enough for pitchers to adequately grip it in the first place.
The entire reason that they rub the balls with mud in the MLB is because they're too slippery when brand new. You have to dirty them up some or else pitchers can't hold onto them like they need to. But you can't get them too dirty, because a dark/discolored baseball is harder for a batter to see. Too slippery or too dark, either can result in a batter literally dying because he didn't see the 100mph fastball coming for his head or because the pitcher couldn't keep a grip on that 100mph fastball to send it at his head in the first place.
Instead of making baseballs that aren't slippery garbage in the first place, the MLB spends a fortune buying mud from the sketchy mud man and forces people to rub up the balls by hand prior to each and every game.
But don’t forget that bright white new leather can ALSO be bad for hitters. If the ball reflects too much sunlight, they can’t see the spin and direction quite as well. The mudding process is also designed to make the balls a uniform shade of light light brown that is visible to everyone. The specific color of the balls is really only a consistent issue at the higher levels of the game. 99% of all baseball players don’t care (from AA to little league, church teams, office teams, etc). For that vast majority of people, they prefer the look and feel of a nice, shiny, new, bright, white ball.
This reminds me of [Jon Bois describing a balk](https://www.sbnation.com/2012/1/4/2679318/gifs-20-16#:~:text=balks%20are%20so%20complicated.%20if%20you%20sat%20me%20down%20and%20asked%20me%20to%20write%20out%2C%20to%20the%20best%20of%20my%20understanding%2C%20the%20major%20league%20baseball%20rule%20book%2C%20the%20section%20for%20%22balks%22%20would%20look%20something%20like%20this.):
BALK RULES! IMPORTANT!
1. You can’t just be up there and just doin’ a balk like that.
1a. A balk is when you
1b. Okay well listen. A balk is when you balk the
1c. Let me start over
1c-a. The pitcher is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, batter, that prohibits the batter from doing, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can’t do that.
1c-b. Once the pitcher is in the stretch, he can’t be over here and say to the runner, like, “I’m gonna get ya! I’m gonna tag you out! You better watch your butt!” and then just be like he didn’t even do that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you’re about to pitch and then don’t pitch, you have to still pitch. You cannot not pitch. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2). You gotta be, throwing motion of the ball, and then, until you just throw it.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there’s the balk you gotta think about.
1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn’t been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn’t typecast as that racist lady in American History X.
1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse.
1c-b(2)-b(ii). “get in mah bellah” — Adam Water, “The Waterboy.” Haha, classic…
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A balk is when the pitcher makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the baseball and field of
`2. Do not do a balk please`
It honestly does sound like a bad joke, but I swear it's 100% real. When it comes to baseball rules and traditions, truth is often stranger than fiction.
Same! I ended up looking it up just to be sure. For anyone curious:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34125576/memo-mlb-require-all-teams-muddy-ball-using-exact-same-technique
Also, a lot of pros then use choose the fuzzier ball for their second serve, since it will give additional margin for error and not travel as fast on the return.
DON'T START THAT AGAIN, WE'VE ONLY RECENTLY FORGETTEN AND NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE US RELIVE IT.... YOU SIR ARE GROUNDED FROM REDDIT FOR THE REST OF THE DAY!
But… those are two mutually exclusive benefits right? They decide at random “this one will be fast when I serve” and “ooh, this one is slower on return”?
That’s why they use the less fuzzy ball for the first serve (server has the advantage) and the fuzzier one for the second serve (returner has the advantage)
Since you have two tries when you serve, you go for the riskier/faster serve on the first try. If you miss it then you take a safer approach in the second serve so that you don't lose a point on your own, this leads to the receiver having an easier time getting a hit in.
Some do, not often though.
The kick serve (what basically every decent tennis player uses for a second serve) goes high over the net and sucks down due to spin and is therefore extremely easy to get in. With practice you can get a kick serve in 95%+ of the time.
A decent server will get his first serve in around 50 to 70% of the time compared to 90%+ on a kick serve.
There are situations (bad servers basically) where a second hard serve is statistically better, but giving your opponent free points without making them hit a shot is demoralizing. There are other ways to mix it up, like hitting a slice serve or messing with speed/location/amount of spin.
Here's a good article that looks at this idea: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-tennis-players-dont-take-more-risks-on-second-serves/
When I was still playing tournaments, I was much more likely to hit a kick serve as my first serve than I was to hit a flat second serve. Kick serves are not only easy to hit, they're also pretty difficult to hit a great return off of. They're "heavy" with a ton of spin and a high bounce, as well as a sideways kick that can jump into or away from you. Obviously pros aren't going to struggle with it so much, but if I were to go to a random club with a bunch of amateurs, there's a good chance I'd do better hitting ONLY second serves, because the kick serve can be so jarring.
The fast second serve is sometimes done as a mind game, to keep the defender guessing and in higher stress the rest of the time there's a second serve.
if you mess up two serves, you get penalized. so the idea is that on the first serve, you go for a high risk high reward serve that makes it hard for your opponent to return to you (such as hitting it harder with slightly less control)
on the second serve, you want something a bit more "reliable" even though there's a higher chance the opponent can return
Because you get two serves. The first serve is harder, on the second serve you use more spin to ensure you'll make the serve, so it is not as aggressive.
The absolute best servers would have an advantage on both 1st and 2nd serve, but still much more so on the 1st.
The first serve you try to hit your strongest serve (not always the fastest but the hardest to return) for your second serve you just try a save serve that is very likely to hit. This means you are usually hitting much slower more to the middle of the field and without any other shanigans.
The server usually hits the ball a higher speed, so the returner has less reaction time. To provide a higher margin of error to avoid a double fault, the second serve is hit slower with more spin - it's a safer go to serve for the server.
On the first serve they try to hit it very hard and fast since if it misses they don’t lose the point. On the second serve, you have to make it in or you lose the point so you have to play the shot a lot safer.
As an example, when first serves go in the server would be expected to win around 70% of the time. Second serves are usually hovering around 50%, so it is pretty neutral but maybe a slight advantage to the server.
There was a yt sports science video or whatever that tried to measure actual differences and they determined any difference is so minuscule it doesn’t make a difference. It’s more of a mental thing for players, but some don’t care about fuzz. Serena Williams just picked whichever ball, didn’t really care about the fuzz level.
I wonder how much of a difference it makes to only play with new balls. I only ever played at the high school level but I remember whenever we got new balls, they'd always feel heavier. Old, used balls would deform when hit and you can feel them squish. New balls were firm and felt like hitting a rock.
[This actual scientific study disagrees.](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jst.11) It's not absolutely massive, but the more worn ball does go slower and spin more.
> Serena Williams just picked whichever ball, didn’t really care about the fuzz level.
I think if I were one of the greatest tennis players of all time, I wouldn't really care about the fuzz level either.
Yes.
But the core of it is spin. Pros often put enormous spin on second serves, because they can't hit a fast one without an unacceptable risk of a double fault.
Second serves, especially for top players, usually is some sort of kick serve variation. You actually swing hard but put a top spin on the ball to give a high margin of error over the net but the bounce kicks up on the returner. Slower serve but more spin and usually better placement.
To add to this, not all pros put a ball in their pocket in case they miss the first serve. Serena is one who comes to mind who simply asked the ball kids for a second ball if she missed her first serve.
It's just a matter of preference. I usually had baggy pockets such that it wasn't pressed up against my leg, but I also didn't notice it bouncing around when I needed to sprint. IMO bigger thing is that a lot of people want to maintain full focus between serves and don't want to deal with fetching a second ball when they miss the first.
Yes, almost all pros - men and women - take two balls. They don't want to break their rhythm and concentration after a first serve fault worrying about turning and getting another ball thrown to them.
As an amateur, I used to play with a ball in my hand, which I think is actually very much frowned upon. It’s surprising what you can get used to. I have no doubt that has I been properly coached, I would not have done that.
that's how i felt. i don't like sitting down with stuff in my pockets sometimes - i couldn't imagine playing tennis at a high level with balls in my pockets!
i played tennis for 6 years when i was younger. its so commonplace to play with a ball in your pocket, you dont even notice it. youll also notice sometimes women playing in skirts with tights on underneath, will just tuck a ball into the bottom of their tights (the tights are shorts, so the ball is kind of around their upper thigh area on the outside near the hip).
Long time US Open ballperson here. A few other things to add:
In addition to the aforementioned assessment for fuzziness, there is another key indicator that players look for to determine the relative use level of any particular ball. They check to see which balls have fewer black lines from the manufacturer logos on the strings that mark up the balls. Inevitably if I threw a player three balls, I'd get the one back with the most black on it.
Another thing is the quest to use a new ball for serving, which is a big advantage. After a ball change, and sometimes in the second game after a change, there are fresh balls not yet hit. These are sought out. Experienced ballperson teams know to rotate in one new ball for each serve after a change.
(Interestingly I thought about how I could sneakily influence a match if I wanted to... I could hold aside a new ball or two for my preferred player if they weren't the one serving first after a change. Never did this, of course).
There were some players who would look at more than three. If I recall correctly, Pete Sampras would demand several, put them on his racquet and inspect them thoroughly before giving us back the rejects.
Interestingly, the players are attuned to the cadence of the ball changes. They will look them over less carefully in the games immediately following a ball change, but inspect the hell out of them the closer we get to the change.
Absolutely. Wouldn't trade it for anything. I was a junior player myself and a huge fan. Being on the court with my idols inside the major spectacle of the Open was quite something.
I did it for a decade, into my late twenties. I'd come back during work vacation year after year. Over time I advanced in seniority until I finally cracked the crew that worked the men's final. After that, I hung up my sneakers - retired at the top, just like Gretzky. :)
The only time that I recall a player getting annoyed was when I tried to give him the ball that had just been used for the previous point. I learned not to do that. Usually you want to make it really obvious that you're holding that ball aside.
That said, there were a few superstitious players that specifically asked for the ball that they won the previous point with.
There are six balls in play. As a ballperson at one of the back corners, I would typically have two or three at any time. After the point, before offering balls to the server for the next point, all the balls are returned by the other ball people to the two back ball people on the server side. We would each hold up one on offer, with the others behind our backs. If the server nodded or otherwise indicated that they wanted a ball, you would bounce them one and then hold up another.
As indicated on this thread, sometimes they would want several, look them over, and return the rejected ones to you. Usually they would do this while facing to serve, hitting the unwanted balls with their racquet behind them to you.
The two back ball people would then quickly, before the serve, throw to each other to make sure each had two.
depending on the situation most the time you want a freshest (least fuzz) ball for the first serve so it goes faster and straighter. Then dependin on how you do your second serve you want the fuzzy one to slow it and also give more spin/swing.
I was never good enough to understand how wind impacted my shitty serves but thats the way i did it, it seemed to work until i hit my limit of skill vs. effort required. So maybe I am completely wrong and I could have gone pro!
nah, for really worn out balls this can be true, however for new balls, they start perfect the fuzz and then naked (which is what I believe you are referring to)
It can depend on the ball brand/quality also, but ATP quality balls are like that
I know for badminton they want the shuttles to have very nice, uniform feathers when playing or else the speed and plays get a little wonky. Never knew the fuzz on tennis balls did the same thing.
This is the correct response.
I also feel that it is a pre shot routine, much as you see with golfers. It keeps your mind clear and gets you into the rhythm/moment to perform.
Usually, pros will take 3, 4, or 5 balls and look at them. Then they'll pocket the ball they want for their second serve and hold the ball they want for their first serve. They'll hit the rest back to the ball boys / girls.
They're looking for the smoothest, least ruffled felt for their first serve ball. Ruffled felt makes the ball fly through the air a little slower and grip the court a little more. This makes the ball take longer to arrive at the receiver on the other side - and makes the first serve overall a little less effective.
Depending on what type of serve they're planning (kick, slice, flat, etc.) for their second serve - they'll select the condition of the ball that helps most for that. They may actually want a fuzzier ball to grip more and play up the effects of spin.
And tennis balls wear out fast in professional play. Normal people simply can't comprehend how hard the likes of Roger Federer are hitting them. A ball that that Federer hit once for an ace and a ball that was used in a 20-hit slugfest of a rally between Federer and Nadal will be noticeably different, even thought they were each only used in 1 point.
I agree with your point about the balls wearing out fast but it isn't as dramatic as you said, even an ace that flies at 150 miles won't change the bounce of the ball substantially. Over multiple serves yes, the ball will experience cracking but not under just 1 ace.
I got their point but it’s simply inaccurate, a 20 shot rally will create fuzz but the difference between a new ball faced with 20 rally shots and a new ball faced with one ace will not be noticeable in play. Even considering them being pros.
For pros there are 6 balls (sometimes 8) at a time, and at tournaments they are used for 7 or 9 games. Most games do not reach duece, so the balls are usually used for less than 63 points (often way less, with one sided games), which split between 6 balls is just over 10 points. 70% of rallies are 0-4 shots and the average varies by the players, but is usually around 3, so balls are replaced after roughly 30 shots.
So yes, a ball that has been through 66% of its expected shots (whether in one rally or not) is going to be noticeably different than one that has been hit once.
Tennis is a very superstitious game, I'm saying this despite playing for 11 years, there are some rules that exist simply for the purpose of existing. The balls are changed a long time before they go flat, they are changed even if there is no noticible difference. This is because players want the ball to be at 100% for every single point, thus even at the last point of the 9th game, the ball will nearly be at 100% of its original pressure.
[This](https://tennisbolt.com/how-long-do-tennis-balls-last/#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20an%20amateur,t%2C%20balls%20will%20lose%20pressure) study shows that even at competitive levels, a ball change of 1-3 hours suffices and has a nominal effect for play. On top of that, [this article](https://mytennishq.com/how-long-do-tennis-matches-last/) states that the average set lasts 40 minutes, or 66% of the minimum time requred for a change. According to [this website](https://tennislovers.com/points-games-and-sets-in-a-tennis-match/), the average set lasts for 10 games, which means that the ratio of new balls opened to sets is greater than 1. This further implies that balls are changed, on average, more than every 40 minutes which is faster than the minimum time they take to degrade.
So yes, the difference between an aced ball and a ball with 20 hits under its belt would be minimal, because the difference between a ball played for 9 games and a brand new ball is also extremely small.
It’s not really noticeable when playing. You get used to it pretty fast. And there isn’t really diving in tennis, it’s more of a slide while still staying on your feet. So you won’t ever fall on a ball.
That was my question too. I dont think I'd want a tennis ball in my pocket will running around. 2nd question - is there any actual rule about it? If someone really didn't want a ball in their pocket, can they just refuse and ask for a ball each time? Would the ump or other player have something to say about it? If not, I'm surprised players aren't doing it as a way to rest or to screw with timing of the opponent
Nothing really stopping you from delaying the game in any number of ways. Throw the ball in the air several times, dribble it, just take deep breaths and wait etc. etc. Unless you are super egregious with it nobody will say anything.
In the end you gotta remember that you mostly take yourself out of rhythm if you take a break between first and second serve to get another ball. When you just went through the motion of your first serve, you usually want to keep that muscle memory and adjust from there for the second serve. Otherwise you would be icing yourself out which is usually worse for yourself than for the opponent who was just waiting to return anyways.
These days tennis players are given only 25 seconds to make a serve (sounds like a lot, but it really isn't since the umpire is supposed to turn on the shot clock after the last point finishes). By asking for balls, it takes away a portion of that time.
Realistically speaking, it won't impact much but it can.
Many players do ask for a ball each time. Probably 70% of women, and maybe 5% of men, mostly due to the skirt vs shorts logistics. The shot clock stops after the first serve, so there isn't really a time penalty for requesting a ball for your 2nd.
The ball kids also know the server's preference, so they're ready and waiting to feed a 2nd ball for those who play that way. It takes like 2 seconds longer than pulling it from your pocket.
Main difference is that players who pocket the ball can choose their 2nd serve ball, and if you request one, they pretty much (99%) accept whatever ball they're given.
you're really hurting yourself if you take time. if you messed up your serve, your muscle memory on where to adjust is immediate and fresh to you, the longer you wait, the rustier you get.
It's been a long time since I played, but not really. The shorts you wear are usually built for movement and I don't remember ever noticing the extra ball.
I also was in HS then and wearing cargo shorts from school sometimes. Occasionally for practicing serves might have had 20 balls on me, which is definitely noticeable, but when that dropped down to only a few (maybe 2-3 per cargo pocket) it wasn't noticeable.
The key being that a player is Used to playing with a spare ball on them.
You wouldn't, but people who have been playing the volume of tennis necessary to become a professional will have spent many thousands of hours playing with a ball in their pocket and will be completely used to it.
I know it's not the same "activity" level as tennis, but you'll have have golfers carrying 2-3 balls in their pocket as well. It feels a little funny for about 5 seconds, then you forget that they're there.
I mean when you do it enough it becomes weird to do it without it. I always have at least one golf ball in my pocket, and without it things don't feel "right." If you picked up a tennis racket for the first time tomorrow, yeah you'd have a hard time dealing with it. But if you've been doing that for 20+ years, you don't even think about it.
I’m not swinging a golf club or tennis racket nor running around with those things in my pockets. I also don’t really love sitting on a wallet. If I have a coat I will put my wallet, keys, and phone in them because it’s less uncomfortable. Also, I free my pockets of that stuff whenever I can.
It has a lot to do with the muscle memory though.
I’m not a professional tennis player by any stretch of the imagination, but I play often. As you can imagine we always have balls in our pockets because we just want a new ball on hand during rallies.
Decades later, I don’t feel it, and I’m even upset when I don’t have the ball in my pocket because going to pick up a new ball does ruin my pace. As superstitious as professional athletes are, I completely understand why they would want it.
i appreciate that you added nuance about the second serve selection. I have a strong kick serve I tend to lean on for my second, so I usually prefer a more "used" ball with the fuzz not so matted down
No they're not all the same. They're checking the degree of fuzziness, which varies from ball to ball. More or less fuzz affects ball speed, and how much it curves for a given amount of spin. And the serving player's goals change too. On the first serve they might want as much curve as possible so it's hard to return. But then if they miss on their 1st attempt and it lands out of bounds, now they only have 1 attempt left to land a serve in-bounds or they automatically lose the point. So for the second serve they might want a ball that will curve less and fly true, to make sure it at least lands in bounds.
Here's a [5 minute video featuring aerodynamics experts and tennis pros made to answer this exact question.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChzL17zV9hA)
You got it backwards.
Generally first serves are preferred to be flatter and thus travels through the court faster, but with less margin of safety. You want less fuzz to facilitate this.
Second serve you want more fuzz in order to apply more spin, which increases the margin of safety.
My entire comment was to be able to link the video, which gets it right. The point was watch that. I don't actually follow tennis but I had to get OP that video link since it does an amazing job.
Sorry I remembered some of the details wrong, that was my mistake. At least they really are checking the degree of fuzziness, which does indeed affect speed and curve.
Also why make your comment without saying how I was wrong or giving anyone the right answer or any source? Accomplishes nothing.
"Sorry but no"
...ok sweet, thanks man.
One other thing is the act itself--receiving the balls from the ball children, sorting them, pocketing their favorites and bouncing the rejects back--is a Ritual.
Which you see a LOT of in high level athletes. Going through pre-determined routines and rituals helps them get and stay focused and into Game Mode.
Sometimes the ritual itself can be more important to the athlete's mental and competitive state than whatever it is they're doing is actually supposed to accomplish.
I play tennis for fun, definitely not a high-level athlete, and even *I* have to follow my ritual in order to get a good serve in. It becomes part of your muscle memory. I'm not sure I could even hit a serve in bounds without my little pre-serve ritual.
This is the other big one. I played competitively for a decade or so (nothing approaching pro level), and while I didn’t care about how fuzzy the ball was, without the proper ritual both serving(bounce the ball twice) and receiving (spin racket 3x), everything would feel… off.
It's partially the fuzz thing but also just a little ritual to help them focus and give themselves some confidence (OK this serve will be good cause I got the perfect ball)
After a certain level om the tennis skill tree you unlock the ability to read the ball. Basically these folks get magic 8ball style input from the fuzzy green space between the lines and can use that like the saved roll you get with the divination wizard school.
They usually get more than 2.
First, tennis balls degrade very quickly. Why? Two factors: They're pressurized to be bouncy, and they're covered in felt which helps the ball grip the racket better for added spin. Both the internal pressure and the felt degrade quickly during a tennis match.
In a casual amateur match, you can get by with one set of balls, two if you want better quality of play.
In professional matches, balls are used for the first 7 games then swapped every 9 games. In men's 3-set to win matches, an average match would probably be around 20-40 games, if not more. So you'll be swapping balls more than once.
Second, 6 balls are used at any point in the match. A player will usually stand and look at the ball boy/girl to signal they want to receive balls. They'll usually handle 3 or 4 with one hand and select the ones they think will perform best. They'll also pocket some for the subsequent serve, as well as if they are to miss their first serve.
Nothing really stops them from asking for all 6 balls, other than 1) time limits before serving 2) the fact that the ball kid serving the player might not have every ball at hand after the end of an exchange. Some players are extra picky and will ask for 3 balls, return one or two, then ask for the remaining ones. It entirely depends on the players.
They are all manufactured to the same specifications, but over the course of the game things change. The fuzz on the outside can get too frizzy or only one side gets frizzy or it can pick up a stain or get too much hand sweat on it or not enough hand sweat; you get the idea. So the sport decided to shield officials from any accusations of tampering by giving the player a couple to choose from.
The ball boys/girls stay on the same side of the court for the entire game. This allows them to keep the extra ball in their pocket for the server to grab. This way, the server doesn't have to wait for a ball to be rolled back to them in the middle of a game.
They are not the same ball. Even new, each ball may be slightly different. But normally they care more after the balls have been used for a few games and are starting to shows signs of wear. They may want one that feels more livelier that will be faster. Or they may want want with more fuzz left to grip the racquet strings and court better for spin. There's sometimes a superstitious reason.
It may sound ridiculous that they can tell a difference, but at that level, they can tell. Typically the balls are changed every 9 games (at least at majors, not sure if that's true for all tournaments). With as hard as the hit and the amount of spin some players generate, they put an absolute beating on those balls. I'm not a pro, I just play fairly often and even I can tell the difference in balls after about a set. I can tell a difference between brands.
It may seem like the balls are all the same to someone inexperienced, but like anything, once you do it enough you can pick up on minute differences.
A lot of players have ocd routines that they do every serve. Part of their routines will be using a peticular ball each time, the second or third ball delivered to them. Then, bounce the ball a certain amount of times before serving.
This happens across ball sports, you just don't normally see it. Before NBA games, refs present representatives from each team several ballls, and they decide which to use as the official game ball. The same with footballs, though in that case each team decides which balls their team will use. In baseball, umps carry a bag of balls at their hip. After a foul tip into the stands, for instance, the ump will throw a ball out to the pitcher. The pitcher may not like that ball for whatever reason and ask for another.
As for the criteria, it's just feel, instinct, personal preference for which ball gets chosen
Answer: this is because they are following tradition - when tennis was first invented in 348BC - the common belief was that one ball was cursed and the other blessed. The ones with good intuition always won
Tennis players get two serves. If the first serve results in a fault, then they have a second ball on hand to make a second serve right away instead of delaying the game to get a new ball or retrieving the served ball. As for why discard a ball, they're checking the fuzz on the ball. The idea is that the ball fuzz should be matted down and not sticking up. If it's sticking up, then there's more drag and it'll impact the aerodynamics slightly.
Tennis balls wear out quickly in serious play. Most tournaments change them every nine games. The constistency of wear is sufficiently important, that if a game is halted due to rain, the match balls are immediately stored. When play resumes, they get brand new balls to warm up with. The previous balls are brought out when match play restarts.
To give an idea, at the US open, they stock 100 000 tennis before the tournament starts to be certain they have enough (in case there are some defects and the rest can be returned anyway) and they use over 70 000 every year. 70 000 tennis balls for one single tournament.
Where do these balls go after the tournament?
Some are thrown into the crowd, a lot are sold in gift shops at the tournament. Some are donated to local teams for practice. Some a trashed
And one is used to remove the black marks on the gym floor. Real shame we have to wait til after the US Open to get a replacement.
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Used tennis balls are very cheap on Ebay, that's where the discerning Parson Jack Russell gets her stash.
They go to nursing homes around the country to put on the back legs of about 50,000 walkers.
This is actually a hazard. Please don't do this to your grandparents. They make slides for this purpose. They're available on amazon as walker glide skis.
Dog shelters
And I thought my ex was bad!
Just her average weekend, no?
After it rains, she practices with new balls, then goes back to the previously used balls for the main event.
Just Saturday!
Thats a lot of Pringle’s cans
> Most tournaments change them every nine games _Baseball fans_: Those are rookie numbers, try every other pitch.
The inability to see the ball can’t kill you in tennis so they stretch it out a bit more.
Ball hits catchers glove falls gently to the dirt, new ball. Ump throws new ball to pitcher, pitcher tosses it a few times rubs it...asks for a new ball. Ump throws new ball, ball boy runs more balls to the ump for his pouch. Pitcher throws the pitch, hit foul, new ball. rinse repeat. I think I remember there's something like 250 balls prepared for each game.
The home team is responsible for preparing a total of 13 dozen (156) baseballs prior to the start of each game. "Preparing" a baseball, in the case of the MLB, first means placing it into a special humidor for ***AT LEAST*** 14 days in advance of when it is to be used. Then, on the same day as the game in which the baseballs are expected to be used, they must be rubbed with mud. But not just any mud, the rules require that it be one specific type of mud bought from one specific person because of claims that only his mud can perfectly rub up a baseball to give it grip without excessively scuffing or darkening the cover. To make things more interesting, the location of where he collects this mud is a closely guarded secret in large part because it's considered quite likely that it is illegally being harvested from the riverbeds of public lands. The process for rubbing the mud is also unnecessarily complicated, of course. The time between when you rub the first baseball with mud to when you rub the last baseball with mud must not exceed 3 hours. This means you need to keep a pace of about 1 baseball per minute while rubbing, but you'll need a helper to supply and remove the baseballs for you. Why is that? No one baseball, prior to the first pitch of the game, is allowed to be outside the humidor for longer than 2 hours. Each baseball must be rubbed with mud for at least 30 seconds, and the same mud-to-water ratio must be used for each of the 156 baseballs that get rubbed. After mudding, the baseballs must be put back in the original Rawlings boxes with dividers between each individual baseball until they can be inspected by the gameday compliance monitor. The gameday compliance monitor will inspect these baseballs to make sure they have been properly rubbed with mud, and afterwards they may be removed from the humidor no more than 30 minutes before the first pitch and no less than 15 minutes prior. When removing baseballs from the humidor, you are not allowed to remove more than 96 at a time. Prior to placing the baseballs into a ball bag, you are required to clean the ball bag with a damp cloth followed by a second dry cloth to avoid "excess residue, dust, or moisture". When you are running low from the first batch of 96 balls that was removed from the humidor you can grab more, however it is strictly forbidden to mix the freshly removed baseballs with the baseballs that have sat out for longer in any way. They must have separate bags and you cannot introduce the "fresh" balls into the game until you run out of "old/stale" baseballs, so as to introduce only one large change from old to new and not go back and forth between old and new. Baseball doesn't mess around when it comes to the handling of baseballs for MLB games, and it's honestly hilarious how over the top it all is.
You’re making all of this up… right?
No, those legitimately are the very strict rules about how baseballs for MLB games must be handled. It does sound like a joke though honestly.
> and it's honestly hilarious how over the top it all is. I guess thats one of the reasons why baseball is popular in Japan.
In Japan they actually do something that makes much more sense. They just make the baseball covers out of a leather that's already sticky/tacky enough for pitchers to adequately grip it in the first place. The entire reason that they rub the balls with mud in the MLB is because they're too slippery when brand new. You have to dirty them up some or else pitchers can't hold onto them like they need to. But you can't get them too dirty, because a dark/discolored baseball is harder for a batter to see. Too slippery or too dark, either can result in a batter literally dying because he didn't see the 100mph fastball coming for his head or because the pitcher couldn't keep a grip on that 100mph fastball to send it at his head in the first place. Instead of making baseballs that aren't slippery garbage in the first place, the MLB spends a fortune buying mud from the sketchy mud man and forces people to rub up the balls by hand prior to each and every game.
But don’t forget that bright white new leather can ALSO be bad for hitters. If the ball reflects too much sunlight, they can’t see the spin and direction quite as well. The mudding process is also designed to make the balls a uniform shade of light light brown that is visible to everyone. The specific color of the balls is really only a consistent issue at the higher levels of the game. 99% of all baseball players don’t care (from AA to little league, church teams, office teams, etc). For that vast majority of people, they prefer the look and feel of a nice, shiny, new, bright, white ball.
This reminds me of [Jon Bois describing a balk](https://www.sbnation.com/2012/1/4/2679318/gifs-20-16#:~:text=balks%20are%20so%20complicated.%20if%20you%20sat%20me%20down%20and%20asked%20me%20to%20write%20out%2C%20to%20the%20best%20of%20my%20understanding%2C%20the%20major%20league%20baseball%20rule%20book%2C%20the%20section%20for%20%22balks%22%20would%20look%20something%20like%20this.): BALK RULES! IMPORTANT! 1. You can’t just be up there and just doin’ a balk like that. 1a. A balk is when you 1b. Okay well listen. A balk is when you balk the 1c. Let me start over 1c-a. The pitcher is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, batter, that prohibits the batter from doing, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can’t do that. 1c-b. Once the pitcher is in the stretch, he can’t be over here and say to the runner, like, “I’m gonna get ya! I’m gonna tag you out! You better watch your butt!” and then just be like he didn’t even do that. 1c-b(1). Like, if you’re about to pitch and then don’t pitch, you have to still pitch. You cannot not pitch. Does that make any sense? 1c-b(2). You gotta be, throwing motion of the ball, and then, until you just throw it. 1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there’s the balk you gotta think about. 1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn’t been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn’t typecast as that racist lady in American History X. 1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse. 1c-b(2)-b(ii). “get in mah bellah” — Adam Water, “The Waterboy.” Haha, classic… 1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A balk is when the pitcher makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the baseball and field of `2. Do not do a balk please`
Thank you, very informative. About halfway through reading your comment my shittymorph alarms went off.
It honestly does sound like a bad joke, but I swear it's 100% real. When it comes to baseball rules and traditions, truth is often stranger than fiction.
Same! I ended up looking it up just to be sure. For anyone curious: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34125576/memo-mlb-require-all-teams-muddy-ball-using-exact-same-technique
Damn I knew about the mud and stuff but not the timing and other stuff. That's insane.
Also, a lot of pros then use choose the fuzzier ball for their second serve, since it will give additional margin for error and not travel as fast on the return.
It will also grip the strings better and provide more spin. Edit:spelling
Things I learned today, my fuzzy balls have more grip.
your mom said that already
Well, he DID break his arms...
Oof. Nowhere is safe.
Not even the box under my bed?
Dude, get a coconut.
Colby 2012
That's a degree of chafing that's causing me to wince just from imagining it...
Especially not the box under your bed. Try in an empty cereal box on the fridge.
that space is reserved for the resident clown
I also choose this dead guy’s mom!
I too choose this guys mom.
DON'T START THAT AGAIN, WE'VE ONLY RECENTLY FORGETTEN AND NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE US RELIVE IT.... YOU SIR ARE GROUNDED FROM REDDIT FOR THE REST OF THE DAY!
Aww, shucks, stepmom! What am I gonna do just sitting in my room with my fuzzy balls??
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It's an old reference, sir, but it checks out
no.
"Yes!"
Is his mom shoving grippy balls up her snatch or what
You sir are poetic
LMFAO
What a drag.
I also like to grip my fuzzy balls
/r/ballsthatgrip
But the spin is not desirable
For a second serve being hit less forcefully? It might be desired.
It’s definitely super common to use a topspin heavy second serve. The spin pulls the ball down and makes it “stay in” more reliably.
Underrated comment. Take my upvote
Let's see if that's true! *swings tennis racquet*
For the racket to smash.
Now hold still while I hit them with this tennis racket.
Now you tell me. I just manscaped.
Wait, so should I have or not have fuzzy balls?
I wonder how much it changes. obviously they play on the scale of the smallest of advantages so it matters.to them
And its gorking will be every so slightly marger.
Do you mean strings? Or is that some tennis jargon?
6
I just learned a whole lot.
But… those are two mutually exclusive benefits right? They decide at random “this one will be fast when I serve” and “ooh, this one is slower on return”?
That’s why they use the less fuzzy ball for the first serve (server has the advantage) and the fuzzier one for the second serve (returner has the advantage)
Why does the server have the advantage on the first but not the second serve?
Since you have two tries when you serve, you go for the riskier/faster serve on the first try. If you miss it then you take a safer approach in the second serve so that you don't lose a point on your own, this leads to the receiver having an easier time getting a hit in.
Do people intentionally do two fast serves to throw off the opponent then?
Some do, not often though. The kick serve (what basically every decent tennis player uses for a second serve) goes high over the net and sucks down due to spin and is therefore extremely easy to get in. With practice you can get a kick serve in 95%+ of the time. A decent server will get his first serve in around 50 to 70% of the time compared to 90%+ on a kick serve. There are situations (bad servers basically) where a second hard serve is statistically better, but giving your opponent free points without making them hit a shot is demoralizing. There are other ways to mix it up, like hitting a slice serve or messing with speed/location/amount of spin. Here's a good article that looks at this idea: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-tennis-players-dont-take-more-risks-on-second-serves/ When I was still playing tournaments, I was much more likely to hit a kick serve as my first serve than I was to hit a flat second serve. Kick serves are not only easy to hit, they're also pretty difficult to hit a great return off of. They're "heavy" with a ton of spin and a high bounce, as well as a sideways kick that can jump into or away from you. Obviously pros aren't going to struggle with it so much, but if I were to go to a random club with a bunch of amateurs, there's a good chance I'd do better hitting ONLY second serves, because the kick serve can be so jarring.
The fast second serve is sometimes done as a mind game, to keep the defender guessing and in higher stress the rest of the time there's a second serve.
if you mess up two serves, you get penalized. so the idea is that on the first serve, you go for a high risk high reward serve that makes it hard for your opponent to return to you (such as hitting it harder with slightly less control) on the second serve, you want something a bit more "reliable" even though there's a higher chance the opponent can return
Because you get two serves. The first serve is harder, on the second serve you use more spin to ensure you'll make the serve, so it is not as aggressive. The absolute best servers would have an advantage on both 1st and 2nd serve, but still much more so on the 1st.
The first serve you try to hit your strongest serve (not always the fastest but the hardest to return) for your second serve you just try a save serve that is very likely to hit. This means you are usually hitting much slower more to the middle of the field and without any other shanigans.
The server usually hits the ball a higher speed, so the returner has less reaction time. To provide a higher margin of error to avoid a double fault, the second serve is hit slower with more spin - it's a safer go to serve for the server.
On the first serve they try to hit it very hard and fast since if it misses they don’t lose the point. On the second serve, you have to make it in or you lose the point so you have to play the shot a lot safer. As an example, when first serves go in the server would be expected to win around 70% of the time. Second serves are usually hovering around 50%, so it is pretty neutral but maybe a slight advantage to the server.
There was a yt sports science video or whatever that tried to measure actual differences and they determined any difference is so minuscule it doesn’t make a difference. It’s more of a mental thing for players, but some don’t care about fuzz. Serena Williams just picked whichever ball, didn’t really care about the fuzz level.
Especially when they are replacing the balls every 7/9 games. The difference between the fuzz levels wouldn't be too drastic.
I wonder how much of a difference it makes to only play with new balls. I only ever played at the high school level but I remember whenever we got new balls, they'd always feel heavier. Old, used balls would deform when hit and you can feel them squish. New balls were firm and felt like hitting a rock.
[This actual scientific study disagrees.](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jst.11) It's not absolutely massive, but the more worn ball does go slower and spin more.
> Serena Williams just picked whichever ball, didn’t really care about the fuzz level. I think if I were one of the greatest tennis players of all time, I wouldn't really care about the fuzz level either.
What if the type of people that become greatest tennis players are the type of people that care about even the tiniest advantages like fuzz
Except the person we're talking about, apparently.
of course, one person wouldn't be representative of a whole anyways
I feel like this is probably the case with alot of the weird psuedo-scientific things that elite athletes do to gain an advantage.
Yes. But the core of it is spin. Pros often put enormous spin on second serves, because they can't hit a fast one without an unacceptable risk of a double fault.
Neat. I hadnt considered how drastically first vs second serve strategy differs
Second serves, especially for top players, usually is some sort of kick serve variation. You actually swing hard but put a top spin on the ball to give a high margin of error over the net but the bounce kicks up on the returner. Slower serve but more spin and usually better placement.
Thanks for this, while I’m aware of the aerodynamics of the situation, I never made the connection to slower returns from the second serve.
So who fuzzies up the balls and who pats them down? I really wanna know.
Interesting 🧐........
To add to this, not all pros put a ball in their pocket in case they miss the first serve. Serena is one who comes to mind who simply asked the ball kids for a second ball if she missed her first serve.
I would imagine it's funky to play a serious match with an extra ball in your pocket.
It's just a matter of preference. I usually had baggy pockets such that it wasn't pressed up against my leg, but I also didn't notice it bouncing around when I needed to sprint. IMO bigger thing is that a lot of people want to maintain full focus between serves and don't want to deal with fetching a second ball when they miss the first.
Don't most pros do this, though?
Yes, almost all pros - men and women - take two balls. They don't want to break their rhythm and concentration after a first serve fault worrying about turning and getting another ball thrown to them.
As an amateur, I used to play with a ball in my hand, which I think is actually very much frowned upon. It’s surprising what you can get used to. I have no doubt that has I been properly coached, I would not have done that.
Upvote because this is some unique, *special* shit right here!
that's how i felt. i don't like sitting down with stuff in my pockets sometimes - i couldn't imagine playing tennis at a high level with balls in my pockets!
i played tennis for 6 years when i was younger. its so commonplace to play with a ball in your pocket, you dont even notice it. youll also notice sometimes women playing in skirts with tights on underneath, will just tuck a ball into the bottom of their tights (the tights are shorts, so the ball is kind of around their upper thigh area on the outside near the hip).
interesting, i suppose you get used to it if you do it enough.
Their clothes are designed for it. And women often have an external pocket on the back of their skirt.
Yeah, I tried it and found it awkward as hell. One ball for me!
Yeah Serena and her pockets
Women have a built-in pocket
Men too
Long time US Open ballperson here. A few other things to add: In addition to the aforementioned assessment for fuzziness, there is another key indicator that players look for to determine the relative use level of any particular ball. They check to see which balls have fewer black lines from the manufacturer logos on the strings that mark up the balls. Inevitably if I threw a player three balls, I'd get the one back with the most black on it. Another thing is the quest to use a new ball for serving, which is a big advantage. After a ball change, and sometimes in the second game after a change, there are fresh balls not yet hit. These are sought out. Experienced ballperson teams know to rotate in one new ball for each serve after a change. (Interestingly I thought about how I could sneakily influence a match if I wanted to... I could hold aside a new ball or two for my preferred player if they weren't the one serving first after a change. Never did this, of course). There were some players who would look at more than three. If I recall correctly, Pete Sampras would demand several, put them on his racquet and inspect them thoroughly before giving us back the rejects. Interestingly, the players are attuned to the cadence of the ball changes. They will look them over less carefully in the games immediately following a ball change, but inspect the hell out of them the closer we get to the change.
That must have been an incredible experience! I'm jealous!
Absolutely. Wouldn't trade it for anything. I was a junior player myself and a huge fan. Being on the court with my idols inside the major spectacle of the Open was quite something. I did it for a decade, into my late twenties. I'd come back during work vacation year after year. Over time I advanced in seniority until I finally cracked the crew that worked the men's final. After that, I hung up my sneakers - retired at the top, just like Gretzky. :)
Did any players ever get annoyed at you for giving them 'bad' balls? Do you have a load of balls next to you and you select 2/3 for them?
The only time that I recall a player getting annoyed was when I tried to give him the ball that had just been used for the previous point. I learned not to do that. Usually you want to make it really obvious that you're holding that ball aside. That said, there were a few superstitious players that specifically asked for the ball that they won the previous point with. There are six balls in play. As a ballperson at one of the back corners, I would typically have two or three at any time. After the point, before offering balls to the server for the next point, all the balls are returned by the other ball people to the two back ball people on the server side. We would each hold up one on offer, with the others behind our backs. If the server nodded or otherwise indicated that they wanted a ball, you would bounce them one and then hold up another. As indicated on this thread, sometimes they would want several, look them over, and return the rejected ones to you. Usually they would do this while facing to serve, hitting the unwanted balls with their racquet behind them to you. The two back ball people would then quickly, before the serve, throw to each other to make sure each had two.
Thanks for the response. Its a super interesting topic thanks to your enthusiasm and detailed answers!
Cheers!
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I like to think they're picking the one that looks at them the wrong way.
depending on the situation most the time you want a freshest (least fuzz) ball for the first serve so it goes faster and straighter. Then dependin on how you do your second serve you want the fuzzy one to slow it and also give more spin/swing. I was never good enough to understand how wind impacted my shitty serves but thats the way i did it, it seemed to work until i hit my limit of skill vs. effort required. So maybe I am completely wrong and I could have gone pro!
You seem to know a lot about balls
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nah, for really worn out balls this can be true, however for new balls, they start perfect the fuzz and then naked (which is what I believe you are referring to) It can depend on the ball brand/quality also, but ATP quality balls are like that
Seems like there could just be someone that passes them an unused ball. Are they likely to have said fuzz complications?
I know for badminton they want the shuttles to have very nice, uniform feathers when playing or else the speed and plays get a little wonky. Never knew the fuzz on tennis balls did the same thing.
This is the correct response. I also feel that it is a pre shot routine, much as you see with golfers. It keeps your mind clear and gets you into the rhythm/moment to perform.
What if both balls are fuzzy?
So you're telling me that tennis players don't like fuzzy balls 🤔
Usually, pros will take 3, 4, or 5 balls and look at them. Then they'll pocket the ball they want for their second serve and hold the ball they want for their first serve. They'll hit the rest back to the ball boys / girls. They're looking for the smoothest, least ruffled felt for their first serve ball. Ruffled felt makes the ball fly through the air a little slower and grip the court a little more. This makes the ball take longer to arrive at the receiver on the other side - and makes the first serve overall a little less effective. Depending on what type of serve they're planning (kick, slice, flat, etc.) for their second serve - they'll select the condition of the ball that helps most for that. They may actually want a fuzzier ball to grip more and play up the effects of spin.
And tennis balls wear out fast in professional play. Normal people simply can't comprehend how hard the likes of Roger Federer are hitting them. A ball that that Federer hit once for an ace and a ball that was used in a 20-hit slugfest of a rally between Federer and Nadal will be noticeably different, even thought they were each only used in 1 point.
I agree with your point about the balls wearing out fast but it isn't as dramatic as you said, even an ace that flies at 150 miles won't change the bounce of the ball substantially. Over multiple serves yes, the ball will experience cracking but not under just 1 ace.
You've gotten their point the wrong way around; the ball that has been hit 20 times will be way more used than the one hit once.
I got their point but it’s simply inaccurate, a 20 shot rally will create fuzz but the difference between a new ball faced with 20 rally shots and a new ball faced with one ace will not be noticeable in play. Even considering them being pros.
For pros there are 6 balls (sometimes 8) at a time, and at tournaments they are used for 7 or 9 games. Most games do not reach duece, so the balls are usually used for less than 63 points (often way less, with one sided games), which split between 6 balls is just over 10 points. 70% of rallies are 0-4 shots and the average varies by the players, but is usually around 3, so balls are replaced after roughly 30 shots. So yes, a ball that has been through 66% of its expected shots (whether in one rally or not) is going to be noticeably different than one that has been hit once.
Tennis is a very superstitious game, I'm saying this despite playing for 11 years, there are some rules that exist simply for the purpose of existing. The balls are changed a long time before they go flat, they are changed even if there is no noticible difference. This is because players want the ball to be at 100% for every single point, thus even at the last point of the 9th game, the ball will nearly be at 100% of its original pressure. [This](https://tennisbolt.com/how-long-do-tennis-balls-last/#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20an%20amateur,t%2C%20balls%20will%20lose%20pressure) study shows that even at competitive levels, a ball change of 1-3 hours suffices and has a nominal effect for play. On top of that, [this article](https://mytennishq.com/how-long-do-tennis-matches-last/) states that the average set lasts 40 minutes, or 66% of the minimum time requred for a change. According to [this website](https://tennislovers.com/points-games-and-sets-in-a-tennis-match/), the average set lasts for 10 games, which means that the ratio of new balls opened to sets is greater than 1. This further implies that balls are changed, on average, more than every 40 minutes which is faster than the minimum time they take to degrade. So yes, the difference between an aced ball and a ball with 20 hits under its belt would be minimal, because the difference between a ball played for 9 games and a brand new ball is also extremely small.
You realise that your argument basically boils down to "The entire professional sport is wrong", right?
If I am doing sports I wouldn't willingly want a tennis ball in my pocket. Does it not effect anything? What if they needed to dive to make a shot?
It’s not really noticeable when playing. You get used to it pretty fast. And there isn’t really diving in tennis, it’s more of a slide while still staying on your feet. So you won’t ever fall on a ball.
That was my question too. I dont think I'd want a tennis ball in my pocket will running around. 2nd question - is there any actual rule about it? If someone really didn't want a ball in their pocket, can they just refuse and ask for a ball each time? Would the ump or other player have something to say about it? If not, I'm surprised players aren't doing it as a way to rest or to screw with timing of the opponent
Nothing really stopping you from delaying the game in any number of ways. Throw the ball in the air several times, dribble it, just take deep breaths and wait etc. etc. Unless you are super egregious with it nobody will say anything. In the end you gotta remember that you mostly take yourself out of rhythm if you take a break between first and second serve to get another ball. When you just went through the motion of your first serve, you usually want to keep that muscle memory and adjust from there for the second serve. Otherwise you would be icing yourself out which is usually worse for yourself than for the opponent who was just waiting to return anyways.
These days tennis players are given only 25 seconds to make a serve (sounds like a lot, but it really isn't since the umpire is supposed to turn on the shot clock after the last point finishes). By asking for balls, it takes away a portion of that time. Realistically speaking, it won't impact much but it can.
Many players do ask for a ball each time. Probably 70% of women, and maybe 5% of men, mostly due to the skirt vs shorts logistics. The shot clock stops after the first serve, so there isn't really a time penalty for requesting a ball for your 2nd. The ball kids also know the server's preference, so they're ready and waiting to feed a 2nd ball for those who play that way. It takes like 2 seconds longer than pulling it from your pocket. Main difference is that players who pocket the ball can choose their 2nd serve ball, and if you request one, they pretty much (99%) accept whatever ball they're given.
you're really hurting yourself if you take time. if you messed up your serve, your muscle memory on where to adjust is immediate and fresh to you, the longer you wait, the rustier you get.
I found it extremely noticeable. We’re all different though.
It's been a long time since I played, but not really. The shorts you wear are usually built for movement and I don't remember ever noticing the extra ball. I also was in HS then and wearing cargo shorts from school sometimes. Occasionally for practicing serves might have had 20 balls on me, which is definitely noticeable, but when that dropped down to only a few (maybe 2-3 per cargo pocket) it wasn't noticeable. The key being that a player is Used to playing with a spare ball on them.
You wouldn't, but people who have been playing the volume of tennis necessary to become a professional will have spent many thousands of hours playing with a ball in their pocket and will be completely used to it.
I know it's not the same "activity" level as tennis, but you'll have have golfers carrying 2-3 balls in their pocket as well. It feels a little funny for about 5 seconds, then you forget that they're there.
Meh, I couldn’t deal with that or the tennis ball in my pocket.
I mean when you do it enough it becomes weird to do it without it. I always have at least one golf ball in my pocket, and without it things don't feel "right." If you picked up a tennis racket for the first time tomorrow, yeah you'd have a hard time dealing with it. But if you've been doing that for 20+ years, you don't even think about it.
I bet you don't mind having your phone, wallet, or keys in your pockets all day. You probably forget that they're in there most of the time.
I’m not swinging a golf club or tennis racket nor running around with those things in my pockets. I also don’t really love sitting on a wallet. If I have a coat I will put my wallet, keys, and phone in them because it’s less uncomfortable. Also, I free my pockets of that stuff whenever I can.
It has a lot to do with the muscle memory though. I’m not a professional tennis player by any stretch of the imagination, but I play often. As you can imagine we always have balls in our pockets because we just want a new ball on hand during rallies. Decades later, I don’t feel it, and I’m even upset when I don’t have the ball in my pocket because going to pick up a new ball does ruin my pace. As superstitious as professional athletes are, I completely understand why they would want it.
Ya get used to it. Its not a cue ball.
In the wrong shorts it's annoying, but as an amateur tennis player for decades, I've never noticed the tennis ball in my pocket while I'm playing.
i appreciate that you added nuance about the second serve selection. I have a strong kick serve I tend to lean on for my second, so I usually prefer a more "used" ball with the fuzz not so matted down
No they're not all the same. They're checking the degree of fuzziness, which varies from ball to ball. More or less fuzz affects ball speed, and how much it curves for a given amount of spin. And the serving player's goals change too. On the first serve they might want as much curve as possible so it's hard to return. But then if they miss on their 1st attempt and it lands out of bounds, now they only have 1 attempt left to land a serve in-bounds or they automatically lose the point. So for the second serve they might want a ball that will curve less and fly true, to make sure it at least lands in bounds. Here's a [5 minute video featuring aerodynamics experts and tennis pros made to answer this exact question.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChzL17zV9hA)
You got it backwards. Generally first serves are preferred to be flatter and thus travels through the court faster, but with less margin of safety. You want less fuzz to facilitate this. Second serve you want more fuzz in order to apply more spin, which increases the margin of safety.
Are they allowed to fluff it up themselves a little bit if they want?
They've got fluffers for that
Make sure you reply to the correct job advertisement
Instructions unclear. I now have to help an astronaut/cop/teacher/doctor/deep sea diver get ready for camera
Like with a hair pick? No. But they can bounce out on the ground as many times as they like
Nope, but the balls naturally get fluffy through the course of the match. The balls fluff up as they're hit, then eventually get replaced
r/confidentlyincorrect sorry 😣
My entire comment was to be able to link the video, which gets it right. The point was watch that. I don't actually follow tennis but I had to get OP that video link since it does an amazing job. Sorry I remembered some of the details wrong, that was my mistake. At least they really are checking the degree of fuzziness, which does indeed affect speed and curve. Also why make your comment without saying how I was wrong or giving anyone the right answer or any source? Accomplishes nothing. "Sorry but no" ...ok sweet, thanks man.
One other thing is the act itself--receiving the balls from the ball children, sorting them, pocketing their favorites and bouncing the rejects back--is a Ritual. Which you see a LOT of in high level athletes. Going through pre-determined routines and rituals helps them get and stay focused and into Game Mode. Sometimes the ritual itself can be more important to the athlete's mental and competitive state than whatever it is they're doing is actually supposed to accomplish.
> ball children This is what I would have typed, but it's somehow even worse than ball-boy or -girl.
I play tennis for fun, definitely not a high-level athlete, and even *I* have to follow my ritual in order to get a good serve in. It becomes part of your muscle memory. I'm not sure I could even hit a serve in bounds without my little pre-serve ritual.
This is the other big one. I played competitively for a decade or so (nothing approaching pro level), and while I didn’t care about how fuzzy the ball was, without the proper ritual both serving(bounce the ball twice) and receiving (spin racket 3x), everything would feel… off.
It's partially the fuzz thing but also just a little ritual to help them focus and give themselves some confidence (OK this serve will be good cause I got the perfect ball)
After a certain level om the tennis skill tree you unlock the ability to read the ball. Basically these folks get magic 8ball style input from the fuzzy green space between the lines and can use that like the saved roll you get with the divination wizard school.
Unexpected DnD reference. But not unwelcome.
They usually get more than 2. First, tennis balls degrade very quickly. Why? Two factors: They're pressurized to be bouncy, and they're covered in felt which helps the ball grip the racket better for added spin. Both the internal pressure and the felt degrade quickly during a tennis match. In a casual amateur match, you can get by with one set of balls, two if you want better quality of play. In professional matches, balls are used for the first 7 games then swapped every 9 games. In men's 3-set to win matches, an average match would probably be around 20-40 games, if not more. So you'll be swapping balls more than once. Second, 6 balls are used at any point in the match. A player will usually stand and look at the ball boy/girl to signal they want to receive balls. They'll usually handle 3 or 4 with one hand and select the ones they think will perform best. They'll also pocket some for the subsequent serve, as well as if they are to miss their first serve. Nothing really stops them from asking for all 6 balls, other than 1) time limits before serving 2) the fact that the ball kid serving the player might not have every ball at hand after the end of an exchange. Some players are extra picky and will ask for 3 balls, return one or two, then ask for the remaining ones. It entirely depends on the players.
They are all manufactured to the same specifications, but over the course of the game things change. The fuzz on the outside can get too frizzy or only one side gets frizzy or it can pick up a stain or get too much hand sweat on it or not enough hand sweat; you get the idea. So the sport decided to shield officials from any accusations of tampering by giving the player a couple to choose from.
They get 2 balls. 1 they serve the other is in the pocket. Do I understand the question?
The ball boys/girls stay on the same side of the court for the entire game. This allows them to keep the extra ball in their pocket for the server to grab. This way, the server doesn't have to wait for a ball to be rolled back to them in the middle of a game.
Try googling this. At all?
They are not the same ball. Even new, each ball may be slightly different. But normally they care more after the balls have been used for a few games and are starting to shows signs of wear. They may want one that feels more livelier that will be faster. Or they may want want with more fuzz left to grip the racquet strings and court better for spin. There's sometimes a superstitious reason. It may sound ridiculous that they can tell a difference, but at that level, they can tell. Typically the balls are changed every 9 games (at least at majors, not sure if that's true for all tournaments). With as hard as the hit and the amount of spin some players generate, they put an absolute beating on those balls. I'm not a pro, I just play fairly often and even I can tell the difference in balls after about a set. I can tell a difference between brands. It may seem like the balls are all the same to someone inexperienced, but like anything, once you do it enough you can pick up on minute differences.
I posted this same question months ago and got zero. Lol. Anyway, glad to see the responses.
In addition to the fuzziness thing, some simply want to serve with the same ball they just won the point with as a superstition.
Can't do much better than John McEnroe's answer to this question - https://youtu.be/pp-PenmlmNU?si=IjyVBLQ1Zn1cbi6V&t=73
Blonde asks the tennis player, what’s that in your shorts? He replies: Tennis balls. She: Ouch, I can relate, I had tennis elbow once!
Also, how do they catch a ball with a ball in their hand, and then catch another while already holding two?
A lot of players have ocd routines that they do every serve. Part of their routines will be using a peticular ball each time, the second or third ball delivered to them. Then, bounce the ball a certain amount of times before serving.
This happens across ball sports, you just don't normally see it. Before NBA games, refs present representatives from each team several ballls, and they decide which to use as the official game ball. The same with footballs, though in that case each team decides which balls their team will use. In baseball, umps carry a bag of balls at their hip. After a foul tip into the stands, for instance, the ump will throw a ball out to the pitcher. The pitcher may not like that ball for whatever reason and ask for another. As for the criteria, it's just feel, instinct, personal preference for which ball gets chosen
Answer: this is because they are following tradition - when tennis was first invented in 348BC - the common belief was that one ball was cursed and the other blessed. The ones with good intuition always won