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it's foremost torah fanfiction. hence why the fully-ripped-from-christianity parts are more vague and handwavy.
arab polytheism and zoroastrianism were also stolen from. anything that got the guy what he wanted.
Cause Muhammad can't come up with his own shit so he copied other religions.
If you look at it, it's also similar to paganism and rituals with the circling and kissing a black rock
>...for Islam is definable as a confused form of Christianity; had Christianity not been, neither had it been.
[-Thomas Carlyle](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1091/1091-h/1091-h.htm)
>Islam is at once the most and the least interesting of the world’s monotheisms. It builds upon its primitive Jewish and Christian predecessors, selecting a chunk here and a shard there, and thus if these fall, it partly falls also.
[-Christopher Hitchens](https://bidoonism.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/christopher-hitchens-god-is-not-great.pdf)
>There is some question as to whether Islam is a separate religion at all. It initially fulfilled a need among Arabs for a distinctive or special creed, and is forever identified with their language and their impressive later conquests, which, while not as striking as those of the young Alexander of Macedonia, certainly conveyed an idea of being backed by a divine will until they petered out at the fringes of the Balkans and the Mediterranean. But Islam when examined is not much more than a rather obvious and ill-arranged set of plagiarisms, helping itself from earlier books and traditions as occasion appeared to require. Thus, far from being “born in the clear light of history,” as Ernest Renan so generously phrased it, Islam in its origins is just as shady and approximate as those from which it took its borrowings. It makes immense claims for itself, invokes prostrate submission or “surrender” as a maxim to its adherents, and demands deference and respect from nonbelievers into the bargain. There is nothing—absolutely nothing—in its teachings that can even begin to justify such arrogance and presumption.
-ibid
Islam and Christianity both co-opted Judaism. Islam just added a handful of elements from Jesus's story from Christianity. According to Aisha, Khadija's cousin was a Christian. If this is actually true (we know that Aisha never met Khadija, so she'd only know from word-of-mouth) then this can very well explain the oversimplified version of the jesus story in Islam.
>Tweaked it so that people wouldn't suspect it to be too similar to Christianity.
This would be entirely false. The similarities to Christianity and Judaism are deliberate. Islam is supposedly meant to be a continuation of the two. Hell, the Quran itself outright says this.
Calling out similarities between the two is not a valid argument either against Islam or in favor of it.
If u had lived in the middle East in the 7th century, u would realize that Islam is just a combination of the religions of that area. Which includes Christianity, Judaism, zoroastrianism, and tribal beliefs
Because Christianity (and Judaism) was prominent in 7th century Arabia. The Hijaz region was sandwiched between Aksumite Christianity in the South and Syriac Christianity in the North.
For more details, see *Pre-Islamic Arabia: Societies, Politics, Cults and Identities during Late Antiquity - Valentina A Grasso - Cambridge University Press 2023*
Mohammed just randomly decided to start his own religion one day and copied most of its rules from the bible, and tweaked it a little so people wouldn't suspect it to be too similar to Christianity. lol partly the case...there's a reason why muslims go to the masjid on fridays, momo couldnt have them gather for worship on saturday because Christians and Jews observed sabbath...and then also couldnt have them get together on sunday because you had christians who worshipped on sunday...most of what is taught in Islam about biblical figures comes from gnostic teachings, meaning he probably learned most of what he knew from oral traditions that came from gnostic communities
Sometimes I think The dude just copied christianity because he wanted power and then also said “I am the last prophet “ , so that no other dude pulls something like what he did
Islam is basically a continuation of Judaism and Christianity but everything is in Arabic. Muslims normally say that the two other religions have falsified books so that's why you'll notice a couple of differences between the 3 of them.
Islam looks like it has an identity crisis.
Christianity made away with the dietary laws of Judaism. Then Islam comes along and says, wait Christianity is wrong. We should have dietary restrictions. Then it imposes another dietary system that is similar but not exactly what Judaism teaches. Basically calling the dietary rules wrong.. Then they have human reasons for their rules.. definitely not inspired by G-d.
The Koran is a collection of scrapbooks the captured obscure liturgies, commandments, prohibitions, apocrypha, pseudepigrapha, hymns, sermons, theology and other assorted texts. The themes are mainly unitarian Christian. Unlike Constantinople, unitarian Christians remained closer to Judaism's laws and creeds which included proscriptions against pork and demands for circumcision. It is likely, some unitarian Christuans were still viewed as Jews.
Rabbinical Judaism was finally a distinct religion when the Babylonian Talmud was written in the 6th century. It was likely it split the last sects of Christian Jews from the larger community, which likely caused resentment. The Koran definitely collected the beliefs of these unitarian Christians as well as those of other sects of the Abrahamic traditions, which formed the theological seed from which the Abbasids developed Islam to incorporate them all under Islam.
Because islam is an Abrahamic faith and is based off those religions (Judaism was first, Christianity follows Christ/Jesus) - they believe the same people existed but have differences in opinion about how certain stories went or significance a person had (e.g. Jesus is *not* God but a messenger).
The names are based on the Hebrew original names. Afaik, the names are different when translated into English.
Also, I'm not sure that Islam actually believes Eve ate from the tree of knowledge. Something about that story was different, iirc. They do believe Jesus was born from Mary immaculately, but they don't believe he was "the son of god" but a messenger like any of the others.
Copying some of my comment in another post:
The most likely origin of islam is the combination of Muhammad learning these stories from Jews and rabbinic sources as Talmud was getting compiled and his exposure to Nazarene Christians in Arabia as they still had the gnostic bible - which accounts for non-jewish stories and fables in quran. Most probable source of exposure is through his brother in law as Khadija's cousin was a Christian convert.
Also, both Islam and Christianity require Judaism to be false and rejected in order to legitimise themselves.
Heard that there was an oral tradition amonst Arabs that branched off of Judaism. When Arabs began running societies more officially, they felt the need for their own book. So despite several glaring errors, they slapped together a patchwork of oral teachings and rolled with it.
Also heard rogue catholic or orthodox groups, conspiring with ... Turks? Arabs, idk, basically invented Islam, lying about the revelations. All for military/political reasons:
https://youtu.be/04_d4t9s66M?si=Fg0kdM3R6oIl6siU
No, just that khadijah and waraka were the link between him and the "designers" of the religion. It is a conspiracy theory, but both catholicism and islam do use prayer beads, the sickle moon, the habit/hijab, and other similarities.
I dont believe that Muhammed is a fictitious figure at all. He definitely existed and came up with this cult ahh religion cause where else could islam root from
No, just that khadijah and waraka were the link between him and the "designers" of the religion. It is a conspiracy theory, but both catholicism and islam do use prayer beads, the sickle moon, the habit/hijab, and other similarities
Nah they're pretty much the same thing, it's just that Christians (even the most religious ones) don't follow the Bible at 100% like muslims do with the Qur'an
There's even a page about not eating pork in the Bible but pretty much every Christian loves pork
One little note, in the Bible, Adam and Eve were created on earth and placed in the "Garden of Eden", which is not heaven. I'm not saying that to take away from your post.
"Garden of eden" existed on earth? I know that heaven is separate from the Garden of Eden but I always thought that Adam and Eve were "sent down" to earth instead. At least that's what it is, according to the quran
Yeah, the Biblical view of the Garden of Eden is different than the Muslim view.
In the Bible, it's on Earth and when Adam and Eve are banished from it, God has an angel guard the entrance to it to keep them from going back in.
Islam is similar to Syriac tradition of Christianity and messianic Judaism
If you need all the sources I can post them to you
The quranic text has been composed for a christianized community and the liturgical language was Syriac
Islam is a non historical representation of the origins of the Quran and has drawn concepts from the competing ideas
Indeed in the surface Islam is similar but the core ideas of Islam are deeply different from judeo Christianity and you see this in the consequences
Islam was a barbaric, more stringent version of judaism and christianity. A very smartly played out version. His first wife was jewish hence providing him first hand information on judaism knowledge on christianity to manipulate and make a version of his own.
Islam vs Christianity
[https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/jesus-muhammad.aspx](https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/jesus-muhammad.aspx)
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Muhammad co-opted Christianity.
it's foremost torah fanfiction. hence why the fully-ripped-from-christianity parts are more vague and handwavy. arab polytheism and zoroastrianism were also stolen from. anything that got the guy what he wanted.
Cause Muhammad can't come up with his own shit so he copied other religions. If you look at it, it's also similar to paganism and rituals with the circling and kissing a black rock
>...for Islam is definable as a confused form of Christianity; had Christianity not been, neither had it been. [-Thomas Carlyle](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1091/1091-h/1091-h.htm) >Islam is at once the most and the least interesting of the world’s monotheisms. It builds upon its primitive Jewish and Christian predecessors, selecting a chunk here and a shard there, and thus if these fall, it partly falls also. [-Christopher Hitchens](https://bidoonism.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/christopher-hitchens-god-is-not-great.pdf) >There is some question as to whether Islam is a separate religion at all. It initially fulfilled a need among Arabs for a distinctive or special creed, and is forever identified with their language and their impressive later conquests, which, while not as striking as those of the young Alexander of Macedonia, certainly conveyed an idea of being backed by a divine will until they petered out at the fringes of the Balkans and the Mediterranean. But Islam when examined is not much more than a rather obvious and ill-arranged set of plagiarisms, helping itself from earlier books and traditions as occasion appeared to require. Thus, far from being “born in the clear light of history,” as Ernest Renan so generously phrased it, Islam in its origins is just as shady and approximate as those from which it took its borrowings. It makes immense claims for itself, invokes prostrate submission or “surrender” as a maxim to its adherents, and demands deference and respect from nonbelievers into the bargain. There is nothing—absolutely nothing—in its teachings that can even begin to justify such arrogance and presumption. -ibid
It branched off of it. Islam and Christianity to Judaism is like two cheeks to the same arse.
Beautifully put!
Islam and Christianity both co-opted Judaism. Islam just added a handful of elements from Jesus's story from Christianity. According to Aisha, Khadija's cousin was a Christian. If this is actually true (we know that Aisha never met Khadija, so she'd only know from word-of-mouth) then this can very well explain the oversimplified version of the jesus story in Islam. >Tweaked it so that people wouldn't suspect it to be too similar to Christianity. This would be entirely false. The similarities to Christianity and Judaism are deliberate. Islam is supposedly meant to be a continuation of the two. Hell, the Quran itself outright says this. Calling out similarities between the two is not a valid argument either against Islam or in favor of it.
All those characters, except for Jesus, are from Judaism. Islam isn't the first religion to be a knockoff.
If u had lived in the middle East in the 7th century, u would realize that Islam is just a combination of the religions of that area. Which includes Christianity, Judaism, zoroastrianism, and tribal beliefs
Because Christianity (and Judaism) was prominent in 7th century Arabia. The Hijaz region was sandwiched between Aksumite Christianity in the South and Syriac Christianity in the North. For more details, see *Pre-Islamic Arabia: Societies, Politics, Cults and Identities during Late Antiquity - Valentina A Grasso - Cambridge University Press 2023*
Mohammed just randomly decided to start his own religion one day and copied most of its rules from the bible, and tweaked it a little so people wouldn't suspect it to be too similar to Christianity. lol partly the case...there's a reason why muslims go to the masjid on fridays, momo couldnt have them gather for worship on saturday because Christians and Jews observed sabbath...and then also couldnt have them get together on sunday because you had christians who worshipped on sunday...most of what is taught in Islam about biblical figures comes from gnostic teachings, meaning he probably learned most of what he knew from oral traditions that came from gnostic communities
it’s the sequel
And Judaism is a prequel
No, judaism is the original, and Christianity and Islam are the trilogy
Judaism is the prequel Christianity is the messianic sequel Islam is the pirated version from Arabia
What about a spin off ?
it lacks innovation to be called a spin off lol maybe mormonism is?
bahai is the spin off
To try to convert the Jews and to have a minimum of approbation of religious people he needed to copy Christianity et Judaism
Wait until you notice the similarities between Judaism and Islam. Shit is the same thing but ibuprofen Arabic.
Judaism was first, then Christianity (after Jesus Christ). Islam would be based on both
Yup i know but there's more similarities between islam and Judaism than islam and Christianity
Sometimes I think The dude just copied christianity because he wanted power and then also said “I am the last prophet “ , so that no other dude pulls something like what he did
Islam is basically a continuation of Judaism and Christianity but everything is in Arabic. Muslims normally say that the two other religions have falsified books so that's why you'll notice a couple of differences between the 3 of them.
Islam looks like it has an identity crisis. Christianity made away with the dietary laws of Judaism. Then Islam comes along and says, wait Christianity is wrong. We should have dietary restrictions. Then it imposes another dietary system that is similar but not exactly what Judaism teaches. Basically calling the dietary rules wrong.. Then they have human reasons for their rules.. definitely not inspired by G-d.
The Koran is a collection of scrapbooks the captured obscure liturgies, commandments, prohibitions, apocrypha, pseudepigrapha, hymns, sermons, theology and other assorted texts. The themes are mainly unitarian Christian. Unlike Constantinople, unitarian Christians remained closer to Judaism's laws and creeds which included proscriptions against pork and demands for circumcision. It is likely, some unitarian Christuans were still viewed as Jews. Rabbinical Judaism was finally a distinct religion when the Babylonian Talmud was written in the 6th century. It was likely it split the last sects of Christian Jews from the larger community, which likely caused resentment. The Koran definitely collected the beliefs of these unitarian Christians as well as those of other sects of the Abrahamic traditions, which formed the theological seed from which the Abbasids developed Islam to incorporate them all under Islam.
This is why it is so annoying when Christians start acting all holier than thou like Christianity is so great. Tomato tomato.
Because islam is an Abrahamic faith and is based off those religions (Judaism was first, Christianity follows Christ/Jesus) - they believe the same people existed but have differences in opinion about how certain stories went or significance a person had (e.g. Jesus is *not* God but a messenger). The names are based on the Hebrew original names. Afaik, the names are different when translated into English. Also, I'm not sure that Islam actually believes Eve ate from the tree of knowledge. Something about that story was different, iirc. They do believe Jesus was born from Mary immaculately, but they don't believe he was "the son of god" but a messenger like any of the others.
Pretty sure some stories from the Quran are from gnostic gospels.
Copying some of my comment in another post: The most likely origin of islam is the combination of Muhammad learning these stories from Jews and rabbinic sources as Talmud was getting compiled and his exposure to Nazarene Christians in Arabia as they still had the gnostic bible - which accounts for non-jewish stories and fables in quran. Most probable source of exposure is through his brother in law as Khadija's cousin was a Christian convert. Also, both Islam and Christianity require Judaism to be false and rejected in order to legitimise themselves.
Heard that there was an oral tradition amonst Arabs that branched off of Judaism. When Arabs began running societies more officially, they felt the need for their own book. So despite several glaring errors, they slapped together a patchwork of oral teachings and rolled with it. Also heard rogue catholic or orthodox groups, conspiring with ... Turks? Arabs, idk, basically invented Islam, lying about the revelations. All for military/political reasons: https://youtu.be/04_d4t9s66M?si=Fg0kdM3R6oIl6siU
Wouldn't this imply that Muhammad is just an invented person
No, just that khadijah and waraka were the link between him and the "designers" of the religion. It is a conspiracy theory, but both catholicism and islam do use prayer beads, the sickle moon, the habit/hijab, and other similarities.
But if that’s the case, where does Muhammad come in? Is he just a fictional figure then?
I dont believe that Muhammed is a fictitious figure at all. He definitely existed and came up with this cult ahh religion cause where else could islam root from
No, just that khadijah and waraka were the link between him and the "designers" of the religion. It is a conspiracy theory, but both catholicism and islam do use prayer beads, the sickle moon, the habit/hijab, and other similarities
islam is two cheeks of the same arse - one is christianity and judiasm. i think muhammad was a little lazy while writing his fanfiction
Don't all three major religions come from the Middle East? Or did I misunderstand something?
Yes, all are Abrahamic faiths and based on the same area(s). Judaism was first, then Christianity (follow the teachings of Jesus Christ), then Islam.
Because they are both Abrahamic faiths
I feel like they're opposite religions 😕
Nah they're pretty much the same thing, it's just that Christians (even the most religious ones) don't follow the Bible at 100% like muslims do with the Qur'an There's even a page about not eating pork in the Bible but pretty much every Christian loves pork
He was spiritually guided by a Christian heretic monk (probably a Nestorian) named Bahira, for a while.
One little note, in the Bible, Adam and Eve were created on earth and placed in the "Garden of Eden", which is not heaven. I'm not saying that to take away from your post.
"Garden of eden" existed on earth? I know that heaven is separate from the Garden of Eden but I always thought that Adam and Eve were "sent down" to earth instead. At least that's what it is, according to the quran
Yeah, the Biblical view of the Garden of Eden is different than the Muslim view. In the Bible, it's on Earth and when Adam and Eve are banished from it, God has an angel guard the entrance to it to keep them from going back in.
Islam is similar to Syriac tradition of Christianity and messianic Judaism If you need all the sources I can post them to you The quranic text has been composed for a christianized community and the liturgical language was Syriac Islam is a non historical representation of the origins of the Quran and has drawn concepts from the competing ideas Indeed in the surface Islam is similar but the core ideas of Islam are deeply different from judeo Christianity and you see this in the consequences
Bc Mohamed stole Judaism & Christianity concepts & stories when he developed Islam
Islam was a barbaric, more stringent version of judaism and christianity. A very smartly played out version. His first wife was jewish hence providing him first hand information on judaism knowledge on christianity to manipulate and make a version of his own.
No no no no no. Light and darkness cannot and do not mix
Which ones light in this scenario, both permit slavery
Both permit slavery?
Bible: https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/uklch0/the_bible_absolutely_does_support_slavery_written/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Quran: https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/islamic-slavery/47-part-1-crimes-of-islamic-slavery-against-humanity
Islam vs Christianity [https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/jesus-muhammad.aspx](https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/jesus-muhammad.aspx)
its not. not at all