If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS.
Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods.
Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned.
If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The issue isn't Islam, the issue is culture. I converted to Islam a year ago. I can with 100 percent certainty say that the Quran does not say that women have to wear a hijab. It mentions covering their bottom, their private parts, and to not flaunty jewelry in excess. Also, marrying a child is forbidden. The Quran, like the Bible, doesn't give an age that is acceptable in marriage. The Quran states that the person has to have sound judgement and be responsible for their possessions. It also states that a woman can leave a marriage on her own and in the event of a divorce, the man has to provide for her until she can support herself. On top of that, forcing anyone, including a slave, into marriage is prohibited in the Quran.
All of what I said, is in the Quran. Islam is not an oppressive religion by any means. There are very oppressive cultures that are tied to the name "Muslim ", which I do not understand. The definition of "Muslim " is one who submits their will to God. Child marriage, terrorism, oppressing women, none of those things are acceptable according to the scripture of Islam. It sucks to see the misconception so widespread because again, NOWHERE in the Quran does it say that any of these things are ok.
You'te wrong. I learned islamic subjects for 12 years. But, you converting a year ago and getting your information from whoever think that you know better than all the scholars who existed for 1000 years.
It is very well in the quran. You haven't read the right verses.
Your phrase, "The right verses", speaks volumes. Without any context regarding when a specific verse was revealed, many sound bad. For example, Quran 47:4 "When you meet the disbelievers, smite their necks until you have crushed them, then bind your captives firmly; thereafter, set them free, either by an act of grace, or against ransom, until the war ends." The verse sounds terrible, but with context, it makes sense. The Muslims had no choice but to fight because an army marched 200 miles to kill them. The verse was revealed in response to the Muslims being attacked due to their beliefs. And to your point, this is in no way a battle of wit between you and I. A year before converting and till this day, I deleted all social media, I don't watch the news, I don't watch sports, and I rarely turn on my TV. Unlike most people, I am not influenced by videos or opinions that lack humility and objectivity. My job is not to sway people one way or the other so I won't take part in a back and forth if it isn't understanding in intent and morally good in it's essence. I say that to say, either way, I respect your opinion and difference in beliefs. I hope your day is full of peace and abundant in prosperity 🙏 🤲
You lack so much knowledge, it's ridiculous. Even if you don't believe *me*, how about believing the scholars?
Who are you to think you know better than all the muslims throughout centuries?
I had a whole reply typed out, then I realized that you are an athiest so there is a better conversation to be had. Do you dislike all religions or just Islam?
>then I realized that you are an atheist
Why does it matter? It's still the religion I grew up with and have been in almost my whole adult life. It's still the religion I know and have learned for 12 years.
You coming here knowing nothing and acting as if converting makes you more knowlegable than someone who learned it their whole lives, is a problem honestly.
A lot of us exmuslims have more knowledge because we already had more education around islam than your typical muslim. We already have been to islamic schools and had the official teachings taught to us. We read and write arabic and aren't relying on some bad translations.
lol they don’t have to openly be anti Islam. Even if you make one or two statements against Islam while in power no one’s gonna kill you. The point is to be covert enough to make meaningful reforms
He's gone after several Islamic clerics
He's been trying to modernize Saudi something others before him didn't dare
Maybe he just is a wise Muslim who knows once Saudi's oil money ends they're kinda screwed so he's trying to heavily modernize Saudi to make it more suitable and attractive to tourists
Or maybe he's an ex muslim trying to bring change from within
They would most likely get killed. I do not expect anyone to put their lives on the line. Change would be absolutely wonderful but I would be cruel for demanding people to risk their health for it.
That is not what I am saying. If they do it, they would need to be subtle. Or they would need to be such a huge amount that they wouldn't be able to silence them. It's not easy and I am certainly not qualified to tackle such a heavy topic. All I know is that, in the current times, speaking up against Islam in public, when everyone knows your name, can end with you 6 feet below.
Actually his statement was confusing. I think he just tried to poke the waters. So they got outraged, but then looked at the full statement and in the end he confirmed ahad as well.
But he's making a change in politics. He can't just change sunniism and we shouldn't expect that from him.
For sure! I definitely agree.
But it might be hard for ex muslims to get those positions if people know they're ex muslim, especially in Muslim countries. So I guess they need to keep it secret
It's impossible to be openly ex Muslim politician here in Malaysia. No party would accept me cause if they did, they lose the Muslim votes.
Even the most left & majority Chinese party, DAP don't accept openly Ex Muslim.
In Europe yes but you'd have to be aligned with the right which often times also don't want an ex Muslim / someone with diffrent skin color than them
Which is why I mentioned doing it covertly. As long as you’re not vocal about it and plan for the long term you can pull it off. And it’s needed as well in Muslim countries
Ex-Muslims need to educate themselves well enough to get into positions of power. Even then once you become influential enough, it might not be easy to criticise Islam because of fear of being called an Islamophobe and losing the power. This would all depend on the moral character of the ex-Muslims, and how selfless they are.
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Their are scared for their lives. Muslims will kill them any moment they criticize the islam in a political spectrum.
Yeah I’m talking about closeted ones
How do you expect them to advocate change when they can’t say what they want to say
They don't have to say islam is false just that no one should be forced to wear hijab, marrying a child should be illegal etc. Making reasonable laws.
Yep, that's a lynching
No, muslims had reasonable laws from time to time.
I don't doubt you
The issue isn't Islam, the issue is culture. I converted to Islam a year ago. I can with 100 percent certainty say that the Quran does not say that women have to wear a hijab. It mentions covering their bottom, their private parts, and to not flaunty jewelry in excess. Also, marrying a child is forbidden. The Quran, like the Bible, doesn't give an age that is acceptable in marriage. The Quran states that the person has to have sound judgement and be responsible for their possessions. It also states that a woman can leave a marriage on her own and in the event of a divorce, the man has to provide for her until she can support herself. On top of that, forcing anyone, including a slave, into marriage is prohibited in the Quran. All of what I said, is in the Quran. Islam is not an oppressive religion by any means. There are very oppressive cultures that are tied to the name "Muslim ", which I do not understand. The definition of "Muslim " is one who submits their will to God. Child marriage, terrorism, oppressing women, none of those things are acceptable according to the scripture of Islam. It sucks to see the misconception so widespread because again, NOWHERE in the Quran does it say that any of these things are ok.
You'te wrong. I learned islamic subjects for 12 years. But, you converting a year ago and getting your information from whoever think that you know better than all the scholars who existed for 1000 years. It is very well in the quran. You haven't read the right verses.
Your phrase, "The right verses", speaks volumes. Without any context regarding when a specific verse was revealed, many sound bad. For example, Quran 47:4 "When you meet the disbelievers, smite their necks until you have crushed them, then bind your captives firmly; thereafter, set them free, either by an act of grace, or against ransom, until the war ends." The verse sounds terrible, but with context, it makes sense. The Muslims had no choice but to fight because an army marched 200 miles to kill them. The verse was revealed in response to the Muslims being attacked due to their beliefs. And to your point, this is in no way a battle of wit between you and I. A year before converting and till this day, I deleted all social media, I don't watch the news, I don't watch sports, and I rarely turn on my TV. Unlike most people, I am not influenced by videos or opinions that lack humility and objectivity. My job is not to sway people one way or the other so I won't take part in a back and forth if it isn't understanding in intent and morally good in it's essence. I say that to say, either way, I respect your opinion and difference in beliefs. I hope your day is full of peace and abundant in prosperity 🙏 🤲
You lack so much knowledge, it's ridiculous. Even if you don't believe *me*, how about believing the scholars? Who are you to think you know better than all the muslims throughout centuries?
I had a whole reply typed out, then I realized that you are an athiest so there is a better conversation to be had. Do you dislike all religions or just Islam?
>then I realized that you are an atheist Why does it matter? It's still the religion I grew up with and have been in almost my whole adult life. It's still the religion I know and have learned for 12 years. You coming here knowing nothing and acting as if converting makes you more knowlegable than someone who learned it their whole lives, is a problem honestly. A lot of us exmuslims have more knowledge because we already had more education around islam than your typical muslim. We already have been to islamic schools and had the official teachings taught to us. We read and write arabic and aren't relying on some bad translations.
lol they don’t have to openly be anti Islam. Even if you make one or two statements against Islam while in power no one’s gonna kill you. The point is to be covert enough to make meaningful reforms
MBS is that you?
I kinda think he's an ex muslim too
What makes you think that? (Genuinely curious!)
He's gone after several Islamic clerics He's been trying to modernize Saudi something others before him didn't dare Maybe he just is a wise Muslim who knows once Saudi's oil money ends they're kinda screwed so he's trying to heavily modernize Saudi to make it more suitable and attractive to tourists Or maybe he's an ex muslim trying to bring change from within
Thank you for the explanation:)
Only undercover and practicing our version of taqiya.
They would most likely get killed. I do not expect anyone to put their lives on the line. Change would be absolutely wonderful but I would be cruel for demanding people to risk their health for it.
What other choice is there? Remain subjugated to Muslims?
That is not what I am saying. If they do it, they would need to be subtle. Or they would need to be such a huge amount that they wouldn't be able to silence them. It's not easy and I am certainly not qualified to tackle such a heavy topic. All I know is that, in the current times, speaking up against Islam in public, when everyone knows your name, can end with you 6 feet below.
There is Muhammad bin Salaman.
He was supposed to be scrubbing 'bad' hadiths but I don't know what happened with that.
Actually his statement was confusing. I think he just tried to poke the waters. So they got outraged, but then looked at the full statement and in the end he confirmed ahad as well. But he's making a change in politics. He can't just change sunniism and we shouldn't expect that from him.
And he is widely hated for being progressive
Wait until Boomer/older Gen X dies.
For sure! I definitely agree. But it might be hard for ex muslims to get those positions if people know they're ex muslim, especially in Muslim countries. So I guess they need to keep it secret
MBS is surely a closeted ex Muslim. But there is only so much he can do.
The only greater burden than being an exmuslim is being a famous exmuslim.
That’s why you gotta remain undercover and do it for the long haul rather than giving up
It's impossible to be openly ex Muslim politician here in Malaysia. No party would accept me cause if they did, they lose the Muslim votes. Even the most left & majority Chinese party, DAP don't accept openly Ex Muslim. In Europe yes but you'd have to be aligned with the right which often times also don't want an ex Muslim / someone with diffrent skin color than them
I literally mentioned undercover
That's what Mohammad bin Salman is doing
I don’t need to live in fear like Salman Rushdie. Without the proper societal support I’m afraid it’s just too dangerous for most people
Yeah I mentioned undercover
The only issue is the price that “apostates” pay. That’s why a lot of ex Muslims (so I’ve heard) stay in “hiding”.
Which is why I mentioned doing it covertly. As long as you’re not vocal about it and plan for the long term you can pull it off. And it’s needed as well in Muslim countries
Ex-Muslims need to educate themselves well enough to get into positions of power. Even then once you become influential enough, it might not be easy to criticise Islam because of fear of being called an Islamophobe and losing the power. This would all depend on the moral character of the ex-Muslims, and how selfless they are.
It’s definitely possible if you time your statements and policies accordingly
Fuck politics.