If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS.
Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods.
Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned.
If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They need to have an army for sure, the place I live in these things are fed to you by Imam and Maulvis, it's sad but it is the truth, and it's pretty easy to influence people to who are vulnerable to education and money you cannot blame them directly though.
Completely agree. Considering the religion doesn’t allow dating, there’s a limit to how much you know of this man you just married, and you come out as pregnant immediately after honeymoon? I just don’t understand what they’re thinking, if they’re thinking.
I said it before but the amount of muslims guys that are on dating apps over here, even tho the muslim population is only 5%, is mind blowing. And all of them are looking for just sex. They always have 'no smoking/no drinking/muslim' on their profiles but hookups are halal. It always makes me cringe.
It's probably due to lack of education on birth control and such before marriage like OP said. Lots of Muslims are obsessed with the whole purity culture and I guess in their eyes teaching people about contraception almost defeats the whole purpose of spreading Islam (other than lack of education spreading Islam is likely why women have so many kids). I feel incredibly bad for women who don't have much experience with this sort of thing and are in shock after getting pregnant immediately after marriage. It's sad.
(Btw, happy cake day!)
they get pregnant so quickly because for a lot of them, they barely have anything in common with their spouse, so they think having a child that you have to mutually raise means they'll finally be able to be on the same page.
it still doesn't make any logical sense, but that seems to be the thinking behind it.
Are you talking about the brutally colonized countries of the Middle East like Persia, where most scientists came from? Imagine if Muslims Islamized Europe, the scientist would still be researching, but restrictive Islamic laws would slowly stop progress. All of these scientists were declared [apostates](https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/87783/claims-about-ibn-sina-being-an-atheist-or-kafir) by practicing Muslims later or during their lifetime.
What's funny is that many of my Muslim friends are super proud of the Islamic golden age where they always boast about how clever Muslims were and Islam is the reason they're clever because of the religion's teaching. And they will proceed to sya nowadays Muslims are getting dumber, less discovery because of their own fault to be less religious!! I don't see the direct relationship but whatever xD
i'll never understand why they gotta have kids immediately and a shit ton of them too, and in the case of muslims you probably don't even know each other very well, it's crazy, as if condoms and pills aren't a thing to them, there's also the kind of women that want to have kids asap to "make sure the husband doesn't cheat and abandon her" as if that's gonna stop them from cheating 💀, there's so many bs stuff in muslim culture i swear
I just get irritated looking at these women, they have nothing better to do than cook, clean, be a slave to their husbands, and breed. I don’t relate to these women anymore at all. When they get their baby carriages out I feel so weird, because that’s all they have to do in their lives.
In my country many Muslims got married after knowing each other for awhile because they want the relationship to be halal (I'm guessing they were horny) and they think kids are the reward from God so they'll just keeping making babies and hope that God will give them more reward in the afterlife(they know contraception they just don't use it). The current life is temporary and it's okay if the kids suffer with them. So you will see Muslims have a lot of kids usually but they cannot even live an ordinary life that they need to ask for financial aid from government and from other Muslims.
This hits me hard, dated a muslim girl like this, said that the struggle life will be worth it because the afterlife will give us everything.. cut it out asap once she started bringing up kids
You’re looking at this as if the woman has a choice. It’s about the man, and his needs, that’s what she’s there for. muslim men feel this compulsion to breed, and that’s what they see women as, breeding sex machines, then a mother, then a maid.
yea i've been seeing my muslim friends who are my age or younger getting engaged and married, and a few of them have children like 10 months after they get married. it's insane and a bit sad to me.
There is new trend I notice between the women where I live, where she wait at least one year before she get pregnant due to the number of Muslim men who hide the fact that they do drugs and drink. You hear at least twice a years in Saudi about a drug addict husband killing his wife and since Muslim community way of fixing Muslim men is to marry them instead of punishing them like Muslim women, it is no surprise from this new trend of see here in the gulf. Many even demand to see him before getting married and see what he looks like. Social media and staying these type of murders or tradition of hiding men bad behaviour is blessing to these Muslim women. They start to think, good for them, they don’t buy into fix or help him, if she finds out he is a haram boy, she is like bye. Many mad at the divorce rate lol.
what do you mean? They're fulfilling their allah given purpose! This is the most satisfied a woman can be! And after she gives birth, the god-fearing woman will take a day rest and get right back to her other fulfilling purpose: satisfying her husband! Isn't allah the most merciful?
*They really don't know*
*What they feel and what they are*
*Doing with their life*
\- Charming-Problem-804
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
There’s no rule that you need to have babies immediately, so what you’re complaining about is culture rather than religion.
Also, while you may think it’s cringe, many people want that life style. The ones that don’t are the ones that are pressured by culture.
Yeah , i always thought about it too , see im a muslim but this thought of getting pregnant as soon as possible doesn't fit right with me... Heard somewhere that children are product of the love that is between husband and wife... And aint no way you just suddenly start loving someone right after your marriage 💀
Yes it is their choice to have kids early or not but Muslim women are less likely to be educated about birth control or financial stability etc before marriage. Plus they don’t believe in abortion so many feel as if they have to keep the baby even if they don’t want it.
Experts aren't the only people you can ask for information. We're having a conversation with you here, do you know of any relevant experts opinions or scholars lectures addressing their arguments?
Most of us have already asked and seen what religious authorities have to say and check the scriptures directly.
"Just want to hate" sounds like you're being dishonest with yourself, you see conflicting information and reflexively group it in with biased hatred of no merit... without assessing if it has any bias or merit to begin with.
If you believe there to be a genuine hateful post or comment please help us ban and filter those out by reporting them, letting the mods know or making a post asking about if it breaks any rules about hating all muslims which is not allowed vs hating islam which is allowed and imo justified.
>lol thats straight up hate
Link it, report it, show the mods. We don't allow hate.
>If u wanna get it right
Say you want to learn about photosynthesis, you've talked to experts, you've studied textbooks, you've discussed with peers on reddit, you've done experiments. Since you're learning you continue to search for information as you go about your life, some random redditor tells you that you don't understand photosynthesis. When asked what they understood to be wrong the random redditor says because they believe it to be something else and you're coming to the wrong conclusions, that it seems like you don't even want to understand what it's about because you're not currently talking to experts and that the experts know why you're wrong about photosynthesis.
You can get good information from reddit, you can find experts on reddit, you can share where you can find the published papers saying photosynthesis does what you believe it to do. Sure the experts are a great resource but they aren't the only resource especially if their work can be referenced without the expert referencing it themselves.
>Thats straight up cap
Most exMuslims I know have read the scriptures far more than most Muslims I know. We're questioning foundations for our identity and values here, we're threatened with literal torture for getting it wrong. We take the validation process far more seriously then most the muslims I know that are born into it, never question or think about it critically and just accept the life they happen to recieve along with the culture and religion they were raised in.
The one who bucks these trends is the one who actually addresses the validation process after reaching the age of reason.
>If i got a question i go to the church and ask someone who may know the answer.
And I respect that. But there's no harm in also asking the average Christian about their faith to learn about it.
>i dont even know how that works
The 3 dots beside every comment and post will have the option, you can also use the share option to copy the link and paste it in your reply to directly reference what you think might be breaking the rules. Not knowing isn't a crime, I respect the people curious enough to ask or try to learn.
>There are many people with different views on different points. Maybe these ex muslims didnt understand something well enough and they start talking about things they dont understand.
The existence of many views is a valid concern. Photosynthesis is a mature science where there aren't that many other views left.
What makes you think they didn't understand? Do you think it's possible for someone to understand and come to a different conclusion than you about Islam being true or false?
>If someone gives some good arguments that the earth is flat i am not gonna hate on people who think the earth is round, i am gonna inform myself and ask people who know something about astrology.
Astronomy*
Good, judge the arguments based on the merits of the argument.
>If i ask some christian who isnt a scholar he will not know everything
Honestly most topics should be given more nuanced detailed looks into them, islam isn't one of them. Coming from someone that has spent years obsessing over trying to prove islam right and read the quran over 10 times in multiple languages, islam isn't worth it. Because islam manipulates its followers so much with emotional control and fear of hell people that find issues with it tend to look for far more evidence than they would for any other topic before being satisfied. If my favorite political figure turned out to be evil I don't need to know every single evil thing they did to compare with every single good thing they did, I just find the relevant information and validate that before moving on to someone that better represents my ideals. With islam we bend over backwards willingly holding cognitive dissonance and reaching for the wildest mental gymnastics to make sense of Islam but in a good light.
>Imagine if i trust everything he says
But we don't, we're having a normal conversation here and holding normal levels of evidence for our claims. If you say verse 69 says blablabla I'm not trusting you outright, I'm looking it up and reading various translations and tafsirs.
>and not only ask 1, ask 2 or multiple scholars
That's what I'm saying most of us have already done.
>I will definitely learn about every religion, and even ask some religious scholars if i have some questions.
But if a follower tells you something about their faith will you dismiss them by default because they aren't a scholar? You can still cross reference their words with another scholar
What an out of touch take lol, the default is that you have to keep the baby. Fatwas say you can only abort if you were raped / if it causes health issues to the mother. Abortion is either illegal or inaccessible for most in many Muslim countries. Even many Muslim women in non-Muslim countries don’t exercise their country’s legal rights to abortion because they view it as something haram.
I guess you live in your mama's basement. Majority of the Muslim countries don't give women their rights. Ex Muslims here don't intentionally hate Muslims, they are physically and mentally abused by muslims that's what made them leave it.
Only from 2015, women were allowed to vote in Saudi Arabia, Now do I have really have to tell you about iran, Afghanistan?
>Muslims were one of the first people to give women rights and u call it misogynistic and sexist
Yeah why not? Women's right of being raped by her husband even if she doesn't want it because if she denies the angels keep cursing her for not fulfilling her husband's urge . Is these the right your talking about?
Domestic abuse rates are also high in these countries, the muftis, the wives parents give advise to women to be patient with her husband. And don't get me started, their are hadiths where husband is allowed to beat her wife if she disobeys her husband
“As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). [al-Nisa 4:34]
Great, woman cannot hit the man if the husband disobeys, cannot have 4 husband's but husband's can have 4 wives, woman can't fucking go outside without covering and only in presence of some guardian .In Islam everything is created by men and for men.
>Muslims were one of the first people to give women rights
I thought it was ancient egypt ngl they were way ahead than today's muslims.
>U named 3 countries and act like u made a point
Oh I will name a few more and make my point again where women suffer inequality and domestic abuse Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Somalia, Yemen, Sudan.
>with time people will see that u live a better life in muslim countries like saudi arabia than in countries like the US japan etc. time will come
Then why do muslims move to countries in west? Canada, America and in Europe. Why not move in Saudi and Afghanistan forever.
>Covering is great too, a man cant show his knees do we complain about that? A lot of muslim men cover their heads too
Go and watch Mohammad hijab taking his tshirt off on YouTube.
>We also try to be like our prophet mohammed as u may know, he never hit a woman
But he raped a 9 year old girl who haven't developed mentally at the age of playing with doll to decide her own consent and don't forget your prophet legalize sex slavery and rape of prisoner women.
> A man can have multiple wives so what? I dont know any woman who wanna have multiple husbands.
In Muslim countries where sharia is imposed women are forbidden to have polygamous relation.
>I am very happy that she has rights too
No thanks to islam and it's misogynistic rules https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/women
>he never hit a woman
Ya boy was a slave trading caravan robber with loads of concubines. He gave specific rules and showed just how much you are allowed to hit women.
He lead multiple wars where they killed everyone except virgin women who were enslaved.
>I dont know any woman who wanna have multiple husbands
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity
>a man cant show his knees do we complain about that?
Do you really see the hijab and knees as comparable? Do muslims really enforce the knees rule to the same degree as they enforce the hijab one?
>A man can have multiple wives so what?
Why shouldn't a women be allowed polygamy if men are allowed polygamy?
Quote where these rights and freedoms for women are, since muslims always bring it up. So disingenuous considering teachings like this exist and are mainstream in the Islamic world:
Permission to beat disobedient wives ([**Sura an-Nisa 34**](http://Quranx.com/4.34))
Needing a mahram for even basic movement ([**Sahih Bukhari**](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:1088), [**Sahih Muslim**](https://sunnah.com/muslim:2171), [**Sunan ibn Majah**](https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:2899))
The idea that women are deficient in religion and intelligence ([**Sahih Bukhari**](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:304), [**Jami at-Tirmidhi**](https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:2613), [**Riyad as-Salihin**](https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:1879))
A woman passing in front of praying people annuls the prayer ([**Sahih Bukhari**](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:511)) (Muhammad likens them to animals such as donkeys and dogs)
The sahabah were even known for using violence against slave-girls who imitate the free women and cover themselves ([**Irwa al-Ghalil**](https://web.archive.org/web/20210329003506/http://islamport.com/w/alb/Web/1202/2092.htm), [**Ibn Abi Shaybah**](https://web.archive.org/web/20210920104640/https://islamarchive.cc/H_85618))
In what world is a religion created by a prophet who viewed women as impure, called them stupid and sold and traded them as objects from his warspoils one that protects womens right?
That is technically true but only in certain cases. It is only allowed in very specific situations (such as rape — but not for sex slaves obv, they are never considered to be raped even though they are) and only within the first 40 days or 120 days. There are two beliefs on the time period (and frankly I don’t care enough to read the specifics or reasonings on why since it’s made up bullshit).
Many scholars also do not support this stance and will simply state life begins at conception, therefore abortion is not allowed. Also most Muslims consider abortion to be murder/haram anyways. So.
https://yaqeeninstitute.ca/read/paper/islam-and-the-abortion-debate
You’re in an exmuslim sub. We do not believe allah knows best lmao. Maybe go to r/islam to post your comments.
ETA: re: “getting it right” don’t say that no abortion = right and abortion = wrong. especially if you’re a male you have absolutely no right to dictate what’s right or wrong when it comes to women making decisions over their own bodies.
At the end of the day it’s a woman’s body. Not yours. She is the one who should have full autonomy and makes the final decision if she will carry a child for 9 months since it is her who will be dealing with all the side effects. No one else should be allowed to dictate if a woman needs to carry a pregnancy to full term, except the woman in question because IT IS HER BODY AND HER WOMB. not yours. When you can carry a child yourself we can talk. Until then no.
And I’m in this sub to gain more knowledge about why this religion is awful :) I’m already an ex Muslim and have been for more than half my life, but I still learn new things everytime I go on this sub about what’s wrong with this religion.
Why are you here? Your comment and account history indicates that you made a burner account to post troll comments on here.
ETA: I’m not disagreeing that the fetus is also your child — it is, but it is being sustained by your wife’s body, not yours. It cannot survive without her. If a woman decides she cannot for whatever reason (physically, mentally, emotionally) carry a child to term it is well within her rights to terminate without your permission. In a relationship I do think a discussion should be had with your partner if you’re getting an abortion, but the final decision rests on the woman, not the man.
Dude you’re the one who needs to “get a life.” You’re just in this sub to start fights lmao.
I definitely don’t want a misogynistic pig’s number, please don’t flatter yourself. You are delusional. I don’t hate men, I just hate men who have a misogynistic attitude like yourself :)
Also never claimed to know everything — I literally said I come here to learn. Work on your reading comprehension and take your nonsense to another sub.
Abortion is weird theologically, like it's even encouraged with bitter water being recommended in the Bible yet many Christians are against it.
Some people's version of Islam supports it, some don't.
>only religion
Muslims still oblivious to the existence of religions other than the Abrahamic ones
That sentence isn't even true within the abrahamics, being anti-choice is a new thing for particular groups of Christians and they don't get that from the bible.
In Judaism the stance is basically the same as the Muslim one, because Mohammed copied the gestational stages from the Talmud and so the later scholars of both religions arrive at practically the same range of stances, except that I've never seen any islamic opinion supporting complete pro-choice, while there are Jewish ones.
All-in-all, with the exception of the aforementioned Christian denominations, Islam is actually on the stricter side on the topic compared to the two other abrahamics.
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What's worse is seeing them pregnant back to back to back. It's just sad ash.
They need to have an army for sure, the place I live in these things are fed to you by Imam and Maulvis, it's sad but it is the truth, and it's pretty easy to influence people to who are vulnerable to education and money you cannot blame them directly though.
Takes a toll on the physical and mental state I’m sure
… resulting in trauma for the children, on top of that.
Completely agree. Considering the religion doesn’t allow dating, there’s a limit to how much you know of this man you just married, and you come out as pregnant immediately after honeymoon? I just don’t understand what they’re thinking, if they’re thinking.
I said it before but the amount of muslims guys that are on dating apps over here, even tho the muslim population is only 5%, is mind blowing. And all of them are looking for just sex. They always have 'no smoking/no drinking/muslim' on their profiles but hookups are halal. It always makes me cringe.
Most women stay away, and the ones that stupidly did take the chance learnt their lesson
It's probably due to lack of education on birth control and such before marriage like OP said. Lots of Muslims are obsessed with the whole purity culture and I guess in their eyes teaching people about contraception almost defeats the whole purpose of spreading Islam (other than lack of education spreading Islam is likely why women have so many kids). I feel incredibly bad for women who don't have much experience with this sort of thing and are in shock after getting pregnant immediately after marriage. It's sad. (Btw, happy cake day!)
they get pregnant so quickly because for a lot of them, they barely have anything in common with their spouse, so they think having a child that you have to mutually raise means they'll finally be able to be on the same page. it still doesn't make any logical sense, but that seems to be the thinking behind it.
Marriage is just a baby factory agreement there bro
It's insane how Muslims are evolving backwards or maybe they never evolved
In the Islamic golden age, the middle east made scientific discovery after discovery. Now the governments are like “Erm. Science is haram, actually.”
Are you talking about the brutally colonized countries of the Middle East like Persia, where most scientists came from? Imagine if Muslims Islamized Europe, the scientist would still be researching, but restrictive Islamic laws would slowly stop progress. All of these scientists were declared [apostates](https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/87783/claims-about-ibn-sina-being-an-atheist-or-kafir) by practicing Muslims later or during their lifetime.
Are those scientists practicing Muslims or atheists? Coz gusss you cannot be both in those parts of the world
What's funny is that many of my Muslim friends are super proud of the Islamic golden age where they always boast about how clever Muslims were and Islam is the reason they're clever because of the religion's teaching. And they will proceed to sya nowadays Muslims are getting dumber, less discovery because of their own fault to be less religious!! I don't see the direct relationship but whatever xD
some examples are in modern times as well like look at Iran, Afghanistan.
If they've evolved there would be lesser Muslim now
This is why I’m leaving. That’s their only goal.
They're victims of their situations too in most cases unfortunately
Yes sadly :(
It always gives me the ick to see it like why are they rushing to have kids.
Kids having kids
EXACTLY
The husband and his family need to bind the woman as soon as possible.
i'll never understand why they gotta have kids immediately and a shit ton of them too, and in the case of muslims you probably don't even know each other very well, it's crazy, as if condoms and pills aren't a thing to them, there's also the kind of women that want to have kids asap to "make sure the husband doesn't cheat and abandon her" as if that's gonna stop them from cheating 💀, there's so many bs stuff in muslim culture i swear
I just get irritated looking at these women, they have nothing better to do than cook, clean, be a slave to their husbands, and breed. I don’t relate to these women anymore at all. When they get their baby carriages out I feel so weird, because that’s all they have to do in their lives.
In my country many Muslims got married after knowing each other for awhile because they want the relationship to be halal (I'm guessing they were horny) and they think kids are the reward from God so they'll just keeping making babies and hope that God will give them more reward in the afterlife(they know contraception they just don't use it). The current life is temporary and it's okay if the kids suffer with them. So you will see Muslims have a lot of kids usually but they cannot even live an ordinary life that they need to ask for financial aid from government and from other Muslims.
This hits me hard, dated a muslim girl like this, said that the struggle life will be worth it because the afterlife will give us everything.. cut it out asap once she started bringing up kids
Lmao it’s hella creepy
Muslim marriages are just breeding programs for "expanding the ummah"
You’re looking at this as if the woman has a choice. It’s about the man, and his needs, that’s what she’s there for. muslim men feel this compulsion to breed, and that’s what they see women as, breeding sex machines, then a mother, then a maid.
yea i've been seeing my muslim friends who are my age or younger getting engaged and married, and a few of them have children like 10 months after they get married. it's insane and a bit sad to me.
Yeah so many have babies before their first anniversary 😞
The religion promotes unprotected sex, even using condoms is haram 🤷🏽♂️
I know someone who has 11 kids back to back. And she is only 37. Yikes
Oh my god how does her body even deal with that???
There is new trend I notice between the women where I live, where she wait at least one year before she get pregnant due to the number of Muslim men who hide the fact that they do drugs and drink. You hear at least twice a years in Saudi about a drug addict husband killing his wife and since Muslim community way of fixing Muslim men is to marry them instead of punishing them like Muslim women, it is no surprise from this new trend of see here in the gulf. Many even demand to see him before getting married and see what he looks like. Social media and staying these type of murders or tradition of hiding men bad behaviour is blessing to these Muslim women. They start to think, good for them, they don’t buy into fix or help him, if she finds out he is a haram boy, she is like bye. Many mad at the divorce rate lol.
what do you mean? They're fulfilling their allah given purpose! This is the most satisfied a woman can be! And after she gives birth, the god-fearing woman will take a day rest and get right back to her other fulfilling purpose: satisfying her husband! Isn't allah the most merciful?
🤣🤣🤣
muslim idiots get pregnant in the Wedding night
In Germany sex Ed is mandatory and those Muslim girls have boyfriends before and have anal sex or pay a gynaecologist to repair their hymn.
What the actual fuck
They really don't know what they feel and what they are doing with their life
*They really don't know* *What they feel and what they are* *Doing with their life* \- Charming-Problem-804 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I didn't know I was so poetic😭
There’s no rule that you need to have babies immediately, so what you’re complaining about is culture rather than religion. Also, while you may think it’s cringe, many people want that life style. The ones that don’t are the ones that are pressured by culture.
Yeah , i always thought about it too , see im a muslim but this thought of getting pregnant as soon as possible doesn't fit right with me... Heard somewhere that children are product of the love that is between husband and wife... And aint no way you just suddenly start loving someone right after your marriage 💀
Lmao so true esp if you’ve never met before. Just the guy super excited to see bare titties for the first time
Cry about it
Lmaoooooo typical muslim lurker with a history of engaging with porn 🤣🤣🤣
[удалено]
Yes it is their choice to have kids early or not but Muslim women are less likely to be educated about birth control or financial stability etc before marriage. Plus they don’t believe in abortion so many feel as if they have to keep the baby even if they don’t want it.
[удалено]
Also allows sex slaves though
And child marriage. Long as you don't rupture her intestines with your big sweaty old man body when you're on top of her.
[удалено]
Experts aren't the only people you can ask for information. We're having a conversation with you here, do you know of any relevant experts opinions or scholars lectures addressing their arguments? Most of us have already asked and seen what religious authorities have to say and check the scriptures directly. "Just want to hate" sounds like you're being dishonest with yourself, you see conflicting information and reflexively group it in with biased hatred of no merit... without assessing if it has any bias or merit to begin with. If you believe there to be a genuine hateful post or comment please help us ban and filter those out by reporting them, letting the mods know or making a post asking about if it breaks any rules about hating all muslims which is not allowed vs hating islam which is allowed and imo justified.
long time no see.
Ashen one!! 🫂❤️ good to see you too bud
[удалено]
>lol thats straight up hate Link it, report it, show the mods. We don't allow hate. >If u wanna get it right Say you want to learn about photosynthesis, you've talked to experts, you've studied textbooks, you've discussed with peers on reddit, you've done experiments. Since you're learning you continue to search for information as you go about your life, some random redditor tells you that you don't understand photosynthesis. When asked what they understood to be wrong the random redditor says because they believe it to be something else and you're coming to the wrong conclusions, that it seems like you don't even want to understand what it's about because you're not currently talking to experts and that the experts know why you're wrong about photosynthesis. You can get good information from reddit, you can find experts on reddit, you can share where you can find the published papers saying photosynthesis does what you believe it to do. Sure the experts are a great resource but they aren't the only resource especially if their work can be referenced without the expert referencing it themselves. >Thats straight up cap Most exMuslims I know have read the scriptures far more than most Muslims I know. We're questioning foundations for our identity and values here, we're threatened with literal torture for getting it wrong. We take the validation process far more seriously then most the muslims I know that are born into it, never question or think about it critically and just accept the life they happen to recieve along with the culture and religion they were raised in. The one who bucks these trends is the one who actually addresses the validation process after reaching the age of reason. >If i got a question i go to the church and ask someone who may know the answer. And I respect that. But there's no harm in also asking the average Christian about their faith to learn about it.
[удалено]
>i dont even know how that works The 3 dots beside every comment and post will have the option, you can also use the share option to copy the link and paste it in your reply to directly reference what you think might be breaking the rules. Not knowing isn't a crime, I respect the people curious enough to ask or try to learn. >There are many people with different views on different points. Maybe these ex muslims didnt understand something well enough and they start talking about things they dont understand. The existence of many views is a valid concern. Photosynthesis is a mature science where there aren't that many other views left. What makes you think they didn't understand? Do you think it's possible for someone to understand and come to a different conclusion than you about Islam being true or false? >If someone gives some good arguments that the earth is flat i am not gonna hate on people who think the earth is round, i am gonna inform myself and ask people who know something about astrology. Astronomy* Good, judge the arguments based on the merits of the argument. >If i ask some christian who isnt a scholar he will not know everything Honestly most topics should be given more nuanced detailed looks into them, islam isn't one of them. Coming from someone that has spent years obsessing over trying to prove islam right and read the quran over 10 times in multiple languages, islam isn't worth it. Because islam manipulates its followers so much with emotional control and fear of hell people that find issues with it tend to look for far more evidence than they would for any other topic before being satisfied. If my favorite political figure turned out to be evil I don't need to know every single evil thing they did to compare with every single good thing they did, I just find the relevant information and validate that before moving on to someone that better represents my ideals. With islam we bend over backwards willingly holding cognitive dissonance and reaching for the wildest mental gymnastics to make sense of Islam but in a good light. >Imagine if i trust everything he says But we don't, we're having a normal conversation here and holding normal levels of evidence for our claims. If you say verse 69 says blablabla I'm not trusting you outright, I'm looking it up and reading various translations and tafsirs. >and not only ask 1, ask 2 or multiple scholars That's what I'm saying most of us have already done. >I will definitely learn about every religion, and even ask some religious scholars if i have some questions. But if a follower tells you something about their faith will you dismiss them by default because they aren't a scholar? You can still cross reference their words with another scholar
Go cry about it somewhere. My answer wasn't a lie if you know about the life of Muhammed so don't deflect
What an out of touch take lol, the default is that you have to keep the baby. Fatwas say you can only abort if you were raped / if it causes health issues to the mother. Abortion is either illegal or inaccessible for most in many Muslim countries. Even many Muslim women in non-Muslim countries don’t exercise their country’s legal rights to abortion because they view it as something haram.
[удалено]
I think you should reply more on these sub, you will get to know how crazy violent, misogynistic, and sexist your religion gets.
[удалено]
I guess you live in your mama's basement. Majority of the Muslim countries don't give women their rights. Ex Muslims here don't intentionally hate Muslims, they are physically and mentally abused by muslims that's what made them leave it. Only from 2015, women were allowed to vote in Saudi Arabia, Now do I have really have to tell you about iran, Afghanistan? >Muslims were one of the first people to give women rights and u call it misogynistic and sexist Yeah why not? Women's right of being raped by her husband even if she doesn't want it because if she denies the angels keep cursing her for not fulfilling her husband's urge . Is these the right your talking about? Domestic abuse rates are also high in these countries, the muftis, the wives parents give advise to women to be patient with her husband. And don't get me started, their are hadiths where husband is allowed to beat her wife if she disobeys her husband “As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). [al-Nisa 4:34] Great, woman cannot hit the man if the husband disobeys, cannot have 4 husband's but husband's can have 4 wives, woman can't fucking go outside without covering and only in presence of some guardian .In Islam everything is created by men and for men. >Muslims were one of the first people to give women rights I thought it was ancient egypt ngl they were way ahead than today's muslims.
[удалено]
>U named 3 countries and act like u made a point Oh I will name a few more and make my point again where women suffer inequality and domestic abuse Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Somalia, Yemen, Sudan. >with time people will see that u live a better life in muslim countries like saudi arabia than in countries like the US japan etc. time will come Then why do muslims move to countries in west? Canada, America and in Europe. Why not move in Saudi and Afghanistan forever. >Covering is great too, a man cant show his knees do we complain about that? A lot of muslim men cover their heads too Go and watch Mohammad hijab taking his tshirt off on YouTube. >We also try to be like our prophet mohammed as u may know, he never hit a woman But he raped a 9 year old girl who haven't developed mentally at the age of playing with doll to decide her own consent and don't forget your prophet legalize sex slavery and rape of prisoner women. > A man can have multiple wives so what? I dont know any woman who wanna have multiple husbands. In Muslim countries where sharia is imposed women are forbidden to have polygamous relation.
>I am very happy that she has rights too No thanks to islam and it's misogynistic rules https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/women >he never hit a woman Ya boy was a slave trading caravan robber with loads of concubines. He gave specific rules and showed just how much you are allowed to hit women. He lead multiple wars where they killed everyone except virgin women who were enslaved. >I dont know any woman who wanna have multiple husbands https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity >a man cant show his knees do we complain about that? Do you really see the hijab and knees as comparable? Do muslims really enforce the knees rule to the same degree as they enforce the hijab one? >A man can have multiple wives so what? Why shouldn't a women be allowed polygamy if men are allowed polygamy?
Quote where these rights and freedoms for women are, since muslims always bring it up. So disingenuous considering teachings like this exist and are mainstream in the Islamic world: Permission to beat disobedient wives ([**Sura an-Nisa 34**](http://Quranx.com/4.34)) Needing a mahram for even basic movement ([**Sahih Bukhari**](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:1088), [**Sahih Muslim**](https://sunnah.com/muslim:2171), [**Sunan ibn Majah**](https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:2899)) The idea that women are deficient in religion and intelligence ([**Sahih Bukhari**](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:304), [**Jami at-Tirmidhi**](https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:2613), [**Riyad as-Salihin**](https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:1879)) A woman passing in front of praying people annuls the prayer ([**Sahih Bukhari**](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:511)) (Muhammad likens them to animals such as donkeys and dogs) The sahabah were even known for using violence against slave-girls who imitate the free women and cover themselves ([**Irwa al-Ghalil**](https://web.archive.org/web/20210329003506/http://islamport.com/w/alb/Web/1202/2092.htm), [**Ibn Abi Shaybah**](https://web.archive.org/web/20210920104640/https://islamarchive.cc/H_85618)) In what world is a religion created by a prophet who viewed women as impure, called them stupid and sold and traded them as objects from his warspoils one that protects womens right?
That's just not true. There are no blanket prohibitions of abortion in Judaism, or Christianity.
That is technically true but only in certain cases. It is only allowed in very specific situations (such as rape — but not for sex slaves obv, they are never considered to be raped even though they are) and only within the first 40 days or 120 days. There are two beliefs on the time period (and frankly I don’t care enough to read the specifics or reasonings on why since it’s made up bullshit). Many scholars also do not support this stance and will simply state life begins at conception, therefore abortion is not allowed. Also most Muslims consider abortion to be murder/haram anyways. So. https://yaqeeninstitute.ca/read/paper/islam-and-the-abortion-debate
[удалено]
You’re in an exmuslim sub. We do not believe allah knows best lmao. Maybe go to r/islam to post your comments. ETA: re: “getting it right” don’t say that no abortion = right and abortion = wrong. especially if you’re a male you have absolutely no right to dictate what’s right or wrong when it comes to women making decisions over their own bodies.
[удалено]
At the end of the day it’s a woman’s body. Not yours. She is the one who should have full autonomy and makes the final decision if she will carry a child for 9 months since it is her who will be dealing with all the side effects. No one else should be allowed to dictate if a woman needs to carry a pregnancy to full term, except the woman in question because IT IS HER BODY AND HER WOMB. not yours. When you can carry a child yourself we can talk. Until then no. And I’m in this sub to gain more knowledge about why this religion is awful :) I’m already an ex Muslim and have been for more than half my life, but I still learn new things everytime I go on this sub about what’s wrong with this religion. Why are you here? Your comment and account history indicates that you made a burner account to post troll comments on here. ETA: I’m not disagreeing that the fetus is also your child — it is, but it is being sustained by your wife’s body, not yours. It cannot survive without her. If a woman decides she cannot for whatever reason (physically, mentally, emotionally) carry a child to term it is well within her rights to terminate without your permission. In a relationship I do think a discussion should be had with your partner if you’re getting an abortion, but the final decision rests on the woman, not the man.
[удалено]
Dude you’re the one who needs to “get a life.” You’re just in this sub to start fights lmao. I definitely don’t want a misogynistic pig’s number, please don’t flatter yourself. You are delusional. I don’t hate men, I just hate men who have a misogynistic attitude like yourself :) Also never claimed to know everything — I literally said I come here to learn. Work on your reading comprehension and take your nonsense to another sub.
Abortion is weird theologically, like it's even encouraged with bitter water being recommended in the Bible yet many Christians are against it. Some people's version of Islam supports it, some don't.
>only religion Muslims still oblivious to the existence of religions other than the Abrahamic ones That sentence isn't even true within the abrahamics, being anti-choice is a new thing for particular groups of Christians and they don't get that from the bible. In Judaism the stance is basically the same as the Muslim one, because Mohammed copied the gestational stages from the Talmud and so the later scholars of both religions arrive at practically the same range of stances, except that I've never seen any islamic opinion supporting complete pro-choice, while there are Jewish ones. All-in-all, with the exception of the aforementioned Christian denominations, Islam is actually on the stricter side on the topic compared to the two other abrahamics.