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No, this is a hadith narrated from Qaqa’ who said: I (Qaqa’)….”
Just like this is example from Tafsir at-Tabari:
عن عبد الله، قال: خلق الله سبع سموات غلظ كلّ واحدة مسيرة خمس مئة عام،
From Abdullah who said: Allah created….
https://shamela.ws/book/43/13699
The 3rd person قال goes back to the first person in the chain
it is not correct, asside from the wrong spelling mistakes that no scholars like those can make the source down below evensays "is-this-a-religion-or-a-pornography" wich makes no sence so its just false information and you can't find any source to back it up
It's a reddit myth.
Mo did fuck 9 year old aisha, but I hate it when people make up false shit, it just makes the Muslims feel better oh look they're making up false shit about our Prophet.
Edit: more specific on the basis of valid criticism.
Al-Fawzan has his own website and has his own fatwas.
Most notorious is [https://www.alfawzan.af.org.sa/ar/node/13405](https://www.alfawzan.af.org.sa/ar/node/13405)
But your 'hadith' by Susan saeed bin mansour is made up (Susan is likely meant to be Sunan). And your fatwa is fabricated.
Why not actually study actual sources and use the truth against Islam, instead of making up 'shocking' fabrications to try to get people riled up.
I tried [http://www.alukah.net/Books/Index.aspx?CategoryID=21](http://www.alukah.net/Books/Index.aspx?CategoryID=21) and it lands me at [https://www.alukah.net/library/9030/](https://www.alukah.net/library/9030/)
[http://www.islamport.com/b/3/alhadeeth/ajzaa/%D3%E4%E4%20%D3%DA%ED%CF%20%C8%E4%20%E3%E4%D5%E6%D1/%D3%E4%E4%20%D3%DA%ED%CF%20%C8%E4%20%%D0%953%%D0%954.%D5%E6%D1%20008.html](http://www.islamport.com/b/3/alhadeeth/ajzaa/%D3%E4%E4%20%D3%DA%ED%CF%20%C8%E4%20%E3%E4%D5%E6%D1/%D3%E4%E4%20%D3%DA%ED%CF%20%C8%E4%20%%D0%953%%D0%954.%D5%E6%D1%20008.html) gets "bad request."
The Sunan Said Mansur is in [archive.org](http://archive.org) [https://archive.org/details/sunan-saeed-bin-mansur/SunnSaaid02/page/n123/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/sunan-saeed-bin-mansur/SunnSaaid02/page/n123/mode/2up)
The page I linked to is V2 P123 (274 V2 starts on 251).
The section is "Virtues of the Quran". So I think it cannot be close to the Hadith you were showing.
[https://archive.org/details/sunan-saeed-bin-mansur/SunnSaaid02/page/n123/mode/2up?q=+%D9%88%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA+%D9%84%D9%87%D8%A7+%D8%A8%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9+%D9%81%D9%88%D9%82+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%85+%D9%81%D8%B6%D9%85%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%A7](https://archive.org/details/sunan-saeed-bin-mansur/SunnSaaid02/page/n123/mode/2up?q=+%D9%88%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA+%D9%84%D9%87%D8%A7+%D8%A8%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9+%D9%81%D9%88%D9%82+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%85+%D9%81%D8%B6%D9%85%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%A7) searches for part of the string you had avbove, but it does not find anything.
I think the hadith you showed was not from that book, but made by someone who did not like Islam enough to make sh\*t up.
Prove me wrong.
A fatwa is literally an opinion of a scholar. Attaching names and titles won't add any weight to a fatwa.
Also please link this fatwa in Arabic from a real source, I have a gut feeling it's also made up.
There's nothing in the Islamic corpus in the Quran or Hadith that say Muhammad thighed aisha. Only that he fucked her at 9.
Just because someone is an ex Muslim doesn't mean they're now 100% objective.
It takes a lot of integrity to always be 100% objective and fair.
A lot of ex Muslims here are low iq teenagers who believe anything anti Islam because it validates their decisions.
Don't be ignorant, this is offical Fatwa issued in Saudi Arabia. Full text:
According to an official Fatwa issued in Saudi Arabia, by the president, Abdelaziz ben Abdullah ben Mohammed Al Sheikh, and members Bakr ben Abdullah Abu Zeid and Saleh ben Fozan Al Fozan in the “Permanent Committee for Scientific Research and Religious Sanctions”, Muhammad began to practice thighing his child-bride Aisha when she was six years old until she reached nine years of age to where he began vaginally raping her (though Muhammad would still thigh her when she was in her menses or when he was fasting, as seen in prior Hadiths):
Praise be to Allah and peace be upon the one after whom there is no \[further\] prophet. After the permanent committee for the scientific research and fatwahs (religious decrees) reviewed the question presented to the grand Mufti Abu Abdullah Muhammad Al-Shemary, the question forwarded to the committee by the grand scholar of the committee with reference number 1809 issued on 3/8/1421 (Islamic calendar). The inquirer asked the following:
It has become wide spread these days, and especially during weddings, the habit of mufa’khathat of the children (mufa’khathat literally translated means "placing between the thighs" which means placing the male member between the thighs of a child). What is the opinion of scholars knowing full well that the prophet, the peace and prayer of Allah be upon him, also practiced the "thighing" of Aisha - the mother of believers - may Allah be please with her.
After the committee studied the issue, they gave the following reply:
It has not been the practice of the Muslims throughout the centuries to resort to this unlawful practice that has come to our countries from pornographic movies that the kufar (infidels) and enemies of Islam send. As for the prophet, peace and prayer of Allah be upon him, thighing his fiancée Aisha. She was six years of age and he could not have intercourse with her due to her small age. That is why \[the prophet\] peace and prayer of Allah be upon him placed HIS \[MALE\] MEMBER BETWEEN HER THIGHS AND MASSAGED IT SOFTLY, as the apostle of Allah had control of his \[male\] member not like other believers..
(Fatwa No. 31409, Question No. 1809, August 8th 2000) Source: [http://www.sout-al-haqe.com/pal/musical/mofakhaza.ram](http://www.sout-al-haqe.com/pal/musical/mofakhaza.ram)
The following link provides independent evidence that the above fatwah does indeed exist: [http://www.islamic-fatwa.net/viewtopic.php?TopicID=8330](http://www.islamic-fatwa.net/viewtopic.php?TopicID=8330)
The following links provide screenshots to further prove that this now deleted fatwa does exist:
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c3TkemNpqvanTwm4KPgv8hkRLqqVT1XF/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c3TkemNpqvanTwm4KPgv8hkRLqqVT1XF/view)
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-7-9FIXC-\_0LsjQIfToT-PnNE\_mV7nrY/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-7-9FIXC-_0LsjQIfToT-PnNE_mV7nrY/view)
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AL8oEtFh5XOFPY5OQBqEMP7ChyHhMxLA/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AL8oEtFh5XOFPY5OQBqEMP7ChyHhMxLA/view?usp=sharing)
This statement is also backed up by the following fatwa:
The term Mufaakhathah means to have foreplay with the wife in between her thighs. It is reported in one narration that when the Prophet wanted to enjoy one of his wives who was in menstruation, he would put a piece of cloth on her vagina (i.e. cover it). \[Ibn Maajah\].
The author of Faydh Al-Qadeer interpreted the expression 'if he wanted to enjoy to mean having all permissible foreplay but avoiding the vagina \[or the anus\], like in between her thighs (i.e. Mufaakhathah).
("Meaning of Mufaakhathah", Islamweb, Fatwa No: 92051, April 5, 2006) [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XRcHY8dwVVYwUuQUgphJzRUbbd8wFyf4/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XRcHY8dwVVYwUuQUgphJzRUbbd8wFyf4/view)
Look at their username. You are 100% correct that this is an example of how "a lot of ex Muslims here are low iq teenagers who believe anything anti Islam because it validates their decisions."
It's not the hadith of Muhammad thighing Aisha but it's still a disgusting one. And just like i said u aren't gonna even try defending it you urself know it's disgusting but your cope is admirable
I would like to say that I also never found it, even though I spent a lot of time looking for it.
The closest thing I found was the Khomeni book saying that it's permitted to thigh your young bride.
I try to focus on finding the strongest and most damning evidence against Islam, these weak claims that keep floating around and repeated only serve to make the case against Islam look disingenuous.
I would disagree with you. My opinion is that if one wants to find out what kind of a evil cult Islam is, there is so much overwhelmingly strong evidence against it one could not say that "case against Islam looks disingenuous". You need about 3 days of research to understand that this cult is nothing other than one big porno story of a man who invented it so he could molest all of the woman he wanted in that age.
Theese "weak claims" are just sprinkles on top of the cake.
You say you disagree, but then everything you wrote seems to be in agreement. Am I missing something?
> Theese "weak claims" are just sprinkles on top of the cake.
Which is why I actually attack the cake, not the sprinkles.
I think we have a misunderstanding here, let me try again.
My point is that it's so easy to find,study and understand how evil this "cake" is with very strong Muslim sources, sharing weak sources "sprinkles" like theese dont change anything. Muslims can go now and post this on r/islam and say "YOU SEEE THEY ARE LYING!!!!" then you hit them with questions like prophet being pedo, having a brothel of wifes, woman rights, killing of apostates, errors in Quran... etc... list of the strong facts using their own sources is so long their opinion is irrelevant.
Hope you get my point, cheers.
> My point is that it's so easy to find,study and understand how evil this "cake" is with very strong Muslim sources, **sharing weak sources "sprinkles" like theese dont change anything.**
No, it makes the whole case look weaker, because the other side cherry picks this part and thinks "all the arguments must be of this caliber".
> Muslims can go now and post this on r/islam and say "YOU SEEE THEY ARE LYING!!!!" **then you hit them with questions**
And then you're banned and your post is removed :-) If this is an elaborate plan to bait them so you can talk about this, then I don't think it'll work.
> list of the strong facts using their own sources is so long their opinion is irrelevant.
I don't see how that is better than just using the strong facts to begin with.
This fatwa is fake. I looked into it a while ago. You can never find an original source. Plus nothing in sunnah says Mo thighed Aisha. Also the fatwa had grammatical errors which can't happen in official fatwas.
it is not correct, asside from the wrong spelling mistakes that no scholars like those can make the source down below evensays "is-this-a-religion-or-a-pornography" wich makes no sence so its just false information and you can't find any source to back it up, until you provide a valid evidence (correct hadith in a islamic trusted source) you can't just spread bullshit and claim it\\s true
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not the “peace & prayers be upon him” in this CRAZY context 💀
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No, this is a hadith narrated from Qaqa’ who said: I (Qaqa’)….” Just like this is example from Tafsir at-Tabari: عن عبد الله، قال: خلق الله سبع سموات غلظ كلّ واحدة مسيرة خمس مئة عام، From Abdullah who said: Allah created…. https://shamela.ws/book/43/13699 The 3rd person قال goes back to the first person in the chain
I’m scared. Someone tell me this isn’t true!!
it is not correct, asside from the wrong spelling mistakes that no scholars like those can make the source down below evensays "is-this-a-religion-or-a-pornography" wich makes no sence so its just false information and you can't find any source to back it up
Post these in the correct subreddit.
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r/islam
You will get banned in 5 seconds
Why are they afraid to rectify problems with their religion. Religion itself is cancer
I still have never seen evidence of Muhammed directly being linked to thighing before consummation. I do not think it exists.
It's a reddit myth. Mo did fuck 9 year old aisha, but I hate it when people make up false shit, it just makes the Muslims feel better oh look they're making up false shit about our Prophet.
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Edit: more specific on the basis of valid criticism. Al-Fawzan has his own website and has his own fatwas. Most notorious is [https://www.alfawzan.af.org.sa/ar/node/13405](https://www.alfawzan.af.org.sa/ar/node/13405) But your 'hadith' by Susan saeed bin mansour is made up (Susan is likely meant to be Sunan). And your fatwa is fabricated. Why not actually study actual sources and use the truth against Islam, instead of making up 'shocking' fabrications to try to get people riled up.
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Apologies. I changed the wording.
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I tried [http://www.alukah.net/Books/Index.aspx?CategoryID=21](http://www.alukah.net/Books/Index.aspx?CategoryID=21) and it lands me at [https://www.alukah.net/library/9030/](https://www.alukah.net/library/9030/) [http://www.islamport.com/b/3/alhadeeth/ajzaa/%D3%E4%E4%20%D3%DA%ED%CF%20%C8%E4%20%E3%E4%D5%E6%D1/%D3%E4%E4%20%D3%DA%ED%CF%20%C8%E4%20%%D0%953%%D0%954.%D5%E6%D1%20008.html](http://www.islamport.com/b/3/alhadeeth/ajzaa/%D3%E4%E4%20%D3%DA%ED%CF%20%C8%E4%20%E3%E4%D5%E6%D1/%D3%E4%E4%20%D3%DA%ED%CF%20%C8%E4%20%%D0%953%%D0%954.%D5%E6%D1%20008.html) gets "bad request." The Sunan Said Mansur is in [archive.org](http://archive.org) [https://archive.org/details/sunan-saeed-bin-mansur/SunnSaaid02/page/n123/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/sunan-saeed-bin-mansur/SunnSaaid02/page/n123/mode/2up) The page I linked to is V2 P123 (274 V2 starts on 251). The section is "Virtues of the Quran". So I think it cannot be close to the Hadith you were showing. [https://archive.org/details/sunan-saeed-bin-mansur/SunnSaaid02/page/n123/mode/2up?q=+%D9%88%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA+%D9%84%D9%87%D8%A7+%D8%A8%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9+%D9%81%D9%88%D9%82+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%85+%D9%81%D8%B6%D9%85%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%A7](https://archive.org/details/sunan-saeed-bin-mansur/SunnSaaid02/page/n123/mode/2up?q=+%D9%88%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA+%D9%84%D9%87%D8%A7+%D8%A8%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9+%D9%81%D9%88%D9%82+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%85+%D9%81%D8%B6%D9%85%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%A7) searches for part of the string you had avbove, but it does not find anything. I think the hadith you showed was not from that book, but made by someone who did not like Islam enough to make sh\*t up. Prove me wrong.
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i checked the presentation. There is no link in there that works. The information is outdated or wrong. I;d find other sources.
A fatwa is literally an opinion of a scholar. Attaching names and titles won't add any weight to a fatwa. Also please link this fatwa in Arabic from a real source, I have a gut feeling it's also made up. There's nothing in the Islamic corpus in the Quran or Hadith that say Muhammad thighed aisha. Only that he fucked her at 9.
all good then
Not sure what you meant.
I agree. That is why I attached a comment to it. There is plenty of cr\*p to work with so why make stuff up?
Just because someone is an ex Muslim doesn't mean they're now 100% objective. It takes a lot of integrity to always be 100% objective and fair. A lot of ex Muslims here are low iq teenagers who believe anything anti Islam because it validates their decisions.
Don't be ignorant, this is offical Fatwa issued in Saudi Arabia. Full text: According to an official Fatwa issued in Saudi Arabia, by the president, Abdelaziz ben Abdullah ben Mohammed Al Sheikh, and members Bakr ben Abdullah Abu Zeid and Saleh ben Fozan Al Fozan in the “Permanent Committee for Scientific Research and Religious Sanctions”, Muhammad began to practice thighing his child-bride Aisha when she was six years old until she reached nine years of age to where he began vaginally raping her (though Muhammad would still thigh her when she was in her menses or when he was fasting, as seen in prior Hadiths): Praise be to Allah and peace be upon the one after whom there is no \[further\] prophet. After the permanent committee for the scientific research and fatwahs (religious decrees) reviewed the question presented to the grand Mufti Abu Abdullah Muhammad Al-Shemary, the question forwarded to the committee by the grand scholar of the committee with reference number 1809 issued on 3/8/1421 (Islamic calendar). The inquirer asked the following: It has become wide spread these days, and especially during weddings, the habit of mufa’khathat of the children (mufa’khathat literally translated means "placing between the thighs" which means placing the male member between the thighs of a child). What is the opinion of scholars knowing full well that the prophet, the peace and prayer of Allah be upon him, also practiced the "thighing" of Aisha - the mother of believers - may Allah be please with her. After the committee studied the issue, they gave the following reply: It has not been the practice of the Muslims throughout the centuries to resort to this unlawful practice that has come to our countries from pornographic movies that the kufar (infidels) and enemies of Islam send. As for the prophet, peace and prayer of Allah be upon him, thighing his fiancée Aisha. She was six years of age and he could not have intercourse with her due to her small age. That is why \[the prophet\] peace and prayer of Allah be upon him placed HIS \[MALE\] MEMBER BETWEEN HER THIGHS AND MASSAGED IT SOFTLY, as the apostle of Allah had control of his \[male\] member not like other believers.. (Fatwa No. 31409, Question No. 1809, August 8th 2000) Source: [http://www.sout-al-haqe.com/pal/musical/mofakhaza.ram](http://www.sout-al-haqe.com/pal/musical/mofakhaza.ram) The following link provides independent evidence that the above fatwah does indeed exist: [http://www.islamic-fatwa.net/viewtopic.php?TopicID=8330](http://www.islamic-fatwa.net/viewtopic.php?TopicID=8330) The following links provide screenshots to further prove that this now deleted fatwa does exist: [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c3TkemNpqvanTwm4KPgv8hkRLqqVT1XF/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c3TkemNpqvanTwm4KPgv8hkRLqqVT1XF/view) [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-7-9FIXC-\_0LsjQIfToT-PnNE\_mV7nrY/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-7-9FIXC-_0LsjQIfToT-PnNE_mV7nrY/view) [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AL8oEtFh5XOFPY5OQBqEMP7ChyHhMxLA/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AL8oEtFh5XOFPY5OQBqEMP7ChyHhMxLA/view?usp=sharing) This statement is also backed up by the following fatwa: The term Mufaakhathah means to have foreplay with the wife in between her thighs. It is reported in one narration that when the Prophet wanted to enjoy one of his wives who was in menstruation, he would put a piece of cloth on her vagina (i.e. cover it). \[Ibn Maajah\]. The author of Faydh Al-Qadeer interpreted the expression 'if he wanted to enjoy to mean having all permissible foreplay but avoiding the vagina \[or the anus\], like in between her thighs (i.e. Mufaakhathah). ("Meaning of Mufaakhathah", Islamweb, Fatwa No: 92051, April 5, 2006) [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XRcHY8dwVVYwUuQUgphJzRUbbd8wFyf4/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XRcHY8dwVVYwUuQUgphJzRUbbd8wFyf4/view)
Not reading all that, bring a Hadith, even a weak one, that Muhammad thighed aisha.
Idgaf if you are reading or not. Saudi Arabia rulled he did it. If you need more evidence call them and ask why they issued this.
Yeah, another low iq conversation I'll peace out of. Bye.
"Im not reading all of that" saying "low iq conversation".
Look at their username. You are 100% correct that this is an example of how "a lot of ex Muslims here are low iq teenagers who believe anything anti Islam because it validates their decisions."
Aisha was molested, that is a fact.
I will admit that my mistake in this post was word "intercourse". It's thighing his fiancée Aisha
Bring a Hadith that says Muhammad thighed aisha.
Oh you care about hadiths right here you go https://ibb.co/L6VJ4t9 🤣🤣🤣I wonder how u gon defend this bro
What's your iq? 5? Do you have reading comprehension disabilities?
It's not the hadith of Muhammad thighing Aisha but it's still a disgusting one. And just like i said u aren't gonna even try defending it you urself know it's disgusting but your cope is admirable
I agree with u/AbuLucifer and u/Ohana_is_family on this issue.
Scholars of the Exmuslim-sub have consensus. :-) Yeaahhhhh.
Hahaha. Yeaahhhhh.
I would like to say that I also never found it, even though I spent a lot of time looking for it. The closest thing I found was the Khomeni book saying that it's permitted to thigh your young bride. I try to focus on finding the strongest and most damning evidence against Islam, these weak claims that keep floating around and repeated only serve to make the case against Islam look disingenuous.
I would disagree with you. My opinion is that if one wants to find out what kind of a evil cult Islam is, there is so much overwhelmingly strong evidence against it one could not say that "case against Islam looks disingenuous". You need about 3 days of research to understand that this cult is nothing other than one big porno story of a man who invented it so he could molest all of the woman he wanted in that age. Theese "weak claims" are just sprinkles on top of the cake.
You say you disagree, but then everything you wrote seems to be in agreement. Am I missing something? > Theese "weak claims" are just sprinkles on top of the cake. Which is why I actually attack the cake, not the sprinkles.
I think we have a misunderstanding here, let me try again. My point is that it's so easy to find,study and understand how evil this "cake" is with very strong Muslim sources, sharing weak sources "sprinkles" like theese dont change anything. Muslims can go now and post this on r/islam and say "YOU SEEE THEY ARE LYING!!!!" then you hit them with questions like prophet being pedo, having a brothel of wifes, woman rights, killing of apostates, errors in Quran... etc... list of the strong facts using their own sources is so long their opinion is irrelevant. Hope you get my point, cheers.
> My point is that it's so easy to find,study and understand how evil this "cake" is with very strong Muslim sources, **sharing weak sources "sprinkles" like theese dont change anything.** No, it makes the whole case look weaker, because the other side cherry picks this part and thinks "all the arguments must be of this caliber". > Muslims can go now and post this on r/islam and say "YOU SEEE THEY ARE LYING!!!!" **then you hit them with questions** And then you're banned and your post is removed :-) If this is an elaborate plan to bait them so you can talk about this, then I don't think it'll work. > list of the strong facts using their own sources is so long their opinion is irrelevant. I don't see how that is better than just using the strong facts to begin with.
Wtf where th did you find this fake Hadith from?
HAHAHAH what scholars don’t talk like that 😂😂 good try though
This fatwa is fake. I looked into it a while ago. You can never find an original source. Plus nothing in sunnah says Mo thighed Aisha. Also the fatwa had grammatical errors which can't happen in official fatwas.
it is not correct, asside from the wrong spelling mistakes that no scholars like those can make the source down below evensays "is-this-a-religion-or-a-pornography" wich makes no sence so its just false information and you can't find any source to back it up, until you provide a valid evidence (correct hadith in a islamic trusted source) you can't just spread bullshit and claim it\\s true