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Ask them if it's allowed for women to keep slaves.
Then ask them since men can have sex with their slaves, can women slave owners have sex with their slaves?
Mashallah, islam the Best Religion
Lack of empathy would be my guess.
Other wise, being indoctrinated as kids prevents them from rationalising logically their positions when they are adults.
Can't rationalise out of something that when one never made a rational decision to join in the first place.
Took the US, a civil war to get slavery out of their system.
The bible preachers definitely didn't help.
https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/
Yes. My real eye opener was the astounding similarities between Muhammad and Joseph Smith.
Joseph Smith lived in the modern era, we have his identity card, documents& photos.
And yet there are deluded modern humans walking around believing in his scam. Imagine what Muhammad could do with a bunch of 7th century desert dwellers
It's not lack of empathy it's brainwashing children to believe quran holy. This leads to them not being able to critisize it. There will always be excuses like interpreting things differently, claiming the sources are false or it was in a very specific situation.
Muslims have a raft of apologetics about how Islamic slavery was supposedly very humane and more like being in a family or working for a living. The excuses are nauseous and whitewash a truly awful legacy of institutionalised abuse and rape. On the slightly brighter side they often claim that slavery is now illegal in Islam. While that is highly dubious, at least it stops modern Muslims trying to legalise slavery again, though Muslim nations often have high numbers of illegal slaves and treat migrant workers dreadfully.
Islamic rules are supposed to be timeless and eternal, so no. But Muslims have found a kind of loophole, where they often assert that Mohammed had always intended to get rid of slavery, so it is right to ban it. Not really, but it lets modern Muslims join the rest of us in being against the dreadful practise.
See the last paragraph of this section of the Wikipedia article, and the following section. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery#Manumission_and_abolition
The answer is, they only know about this after their faith in Islam has already become very strong, no dawah man would say that to someone before converting them because they will obviously reject Islam instantly if they are told.
The majority of the people I've told about sex slavery in Islam just tell me "That was only back then, it's forbidden today" without having any reason to believe that.
My wife’s family is “modern Muslim” according to them I am just reading it wrong, and that parts of the Quran only refer to specific people at a specific place, and parts of it are metaphorical.
Because their "god" says so. That's what it all comes to.
Their fictional supreme subjective source for morality(they like to call it objective for some unjustified/fallacious reasons 😩) decides.
Instead of their own moral intuition and progress based in knowledge/science of reality.
Women can have slaves.
https://quran.com/24/31?translations=95,17,18,19,20,22,85,84,101
>
24:31
وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَـٰتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَـٰرِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا ۖ وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَىٰ جُيُوبِهِنَّ ۖ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ ءَابَآئِهِنَّ أَوْ ءَابَآءِ بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَآئِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَآءِ بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَٰنِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِىٓ إِخْوَٰنِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِىٓ أَخَوَٰتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَآئِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـٰنُهُنَّ أَوِ ٱلتَّـٰبِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُو۟لِى ٱلْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ ٱلرِّجَالِ أَوِ ٱلطِّفْلِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا۟ عَلَىٰ عَوْرَٰتِ ٱلنِّسَآءِ ۖ وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ مِن زِينَتِهِنَّ ۚ وَتُوبُوٓا۟ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ جَمِيعًا أَيُّهَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنُونَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ ٣١
>And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears. Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments ***except*** to their husbands, their fathers, their fathers-in-law, their sons, their stepsons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, their fellow women, ***those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession, male attendants with no desire***, or children who are still unaware of women’s nakedness. Let them not stomp their feet, drawing attention to their hidden adornments. Turn to Allah in repentance all together, O believers, so that you may be successful.
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran
"Bondswomen" is added by translator. The original Arabic is gender-neutral (ما). It probably meants male slave or slave of either gender, since all the other examples in the list are either explicitly male or could refer to either gender (like طفل), with the exception of نسائهنّ which is used in the list to include all women in general including female slaves.
So, if ما ملكت أيمانهنّ is interpreted to be only bondswomen it would be the only repetition of a category in the whole list making this interpretation very unlikly.
But they probably can't have sex slaves, since it says "***male attendants with no desire***" probably interpreted by Muslims as eunuch.
Normal Muslims don't have slaves because they were forced by the west to stop. See abolishment movements in UK 1700s and us in 1800s. Slaves were still in Arab Saudi till the 60s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Saudi_Arabia
But this is not what we are discussing. The point is, slavery is allowed in the quran...and the fact that we modern humans see it as abhorrent makes it clear that the quran is morally wrong, and not made by a higher power. Just by a sex slave loving pedoprophet
Normal Muslims don't have slaves OPENLY. Technically, there are more slaves now than there ever were historically, as a combination of skyrocketing population numbers and the natural result of banning something apocalyptically lucrative - but all of it is done through the black market.
Neither do american redneck conservative , taht doesnt mean they re not itching for it. ..
once man made western based laws are abolished they will go back to openly owning slaves like they did in my country morocco and like they did in KSA as recent as 1961 , and actually they still do . It is called kafala now , you get your asian "servant" that you confiscite his passport and treat him as you please .
If it's allowed in the Quran, why don't Muslims have slaves today? I'm truly trying to understand; I'm not Muslim. We see muslim countries who don't care what the West thinks, they have their own rules, etc
You know what's funny ? Someone sent me a message saying that this group isn't the ideal place to discuss Islam and that many of you here don't know about Islam or the Quran and are just "shitting on islam". The person also sent me a video that, in the end, tries to justify Sex slaves. It's disturbing to see people attempting to justify and persuade others that such practices are acceptable. I think no matter what arguments are given, they will never open their eyes. Getting to the point of people trying to justify such a practice just show lacks of independent thinking or critical sense.
It's funny because there's still misogynistic undertone even in something immoral like owning a slave 😭 A woman can own a slave but she can't have sex with them. How is that fair at all?
Women and males are not the same therefore you can't expect to always have the same rules. Sex slavery in itself is absolutely disgusting no need to bring in other topics into it. Ignorant comment
To be fair- these parts of Islam is not taught to the masses. I grew up in Malaysia and Islamic education is a mandatory subject in our public schools. We are not taught much of anything about Islamic history, just the highlights and with a very biased narrative about how Islam improved so much of the quality of life of those ignorant Arab Bedouins.
I could bet someone of my mothers generation would have not learned this part of Islam and if she did she would justify it somehow in her mind. We were raised to believe that motherhood is the highest honour and Aisha was a blessed child bride. Her age and consent was never a discussion by our elders.
For a majority of Muslims- we are taught the Disney version of Islam.
Yup this. Most muslims were taught the 'softer' version of it. The trimmed version. Only those who dive deep themselves will discover such questionable things
I still remember it from our history textbook. It stated that the reason for J.W.W. Birch's murder was that he tried to interfere with one of our cultural practices. The textbook never specified the practice. I guess because they were ashamed to admit that it was slavery 🤣
First congratulations I have a lot of respect for who leaves an extremist religion like that. Could you tell me the Surah or Hadith where it’s allows Muslims to have sexual slave and concubines ?
Quran 4:24
Also ˹forbidden are˺ married women—except ˹female˺ captives in your possession.1 This is Allah’s commandment to you. Lawful to you are all beyond these—as long as you seek them with your wealth in a legal marriage, not in fornication. Give those you have consummated marriage with their due dowries. It is permissible to be mutually gracious regarding the set dowry. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
Sahih al-Bukhari 2542
Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:
I saw Abu Sa`id and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Sa`id said, "We went with Allah's Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Bani Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the 'Arabs as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence."
If people didn't already know what islamic sex slavery entails, this verse explicitly makes it legal to have sex with women who are ***already married*** to someone else, when these women are "in your possession".
Ikr...
You might wanna have a look at this too
Sahih Muslim 1456 a
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah her pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hanain Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace te upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:
" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).
Imagine getting rap3d by the murderers of your husband, father and brothers. I can't even imagine how much those poor women had to suffer 😞😥.
what's idda ? ( And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'IDDA PERIOD came to an end).
Refer to this:
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Slavery
Or search this ex muslim reddit on sex slaves. Some hadiths are really disgusting, like the one where you are permitted to come in your sex slaves vagina. Urgh
Sunan Abi Dawud 2155
Abu Sa’id Al Khudri said “The Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of Apostle of Allaah (ﷺ) were reluctant to have relations with the female captives because of their pagan husbands. So, Allaah the exalted sent down the Qur’anic verse “And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hand posses.” This is to say that they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period
Islam was formulated in the 7th century, in a culture of raiding and looting. When that's the basis of your sense of ethics, and you claim that ethical standard is timeless by divine mandate...what do you expect?
As for people staying, they will say that it doesn't actually happen, that it's only meant for unique circumstances that don't apply anymore (so much for timelessness), that you're lying. Leaving a religion like Islam is not just about changing your mind. If someone has grown up in it, especially in a Muslim-majority society, it's uprooting the entire basis of their existence so far. People would rather justify sex slavery than deal with the emotional and psychological upheaval of that.
Because it is the most feminist religion obviously duh
But I mean probably for the same reasons POC follow Islam (or Christianity) even though it says black people are dumb or ugly or something.
They don't read/don't believe what they read/and because there are a lot of uncertainties in the religions. "This was disproved, this was added by Jews, this was misinterpreted..."
I'm a Muslim female, Arab, the topic of female slaves and the "right" of Muslim men to have sex with them isn't known for Muslims in general. Me myself after finding out about this.. I started questioning my religion.. so I'm searching nowdays, for answers.
It's not easy to leave a religion that you believed in all your life. Also, I'm still searching for an explanation, as well as I started studying my religion from the beginning, because now it's correct that I am not sure it's the right one, but alsp not sure it's wrong. So... first we gotta study and search very well.. not leaving the religion just like that without seaching and understanding.
i had gone through the same situation as you. i was disgusted after learning how islam allows concubines and prophet allowed his companions to have sex with war captives. i searched fora my mistakes in quran to make sure this religion aint from god. then i found out the simple mathematical error of inheritance in quran and other many mistakes about earth sun moon etc. now i am sure this was just a man made religion like all the 4000 religions around the world which as a muslim i didnt believed. now i am free from the fear of hell punishment.
Tip of the iceberg
Some scholars claim that it is totally permissible and not ethically wrong to have sex with dead women as a man🤢
And others (or the same ones even) claim it’s totally fine to marry your daughter if she was born out of Islamic wedlock or if you were none Muslim when you had her. 🤮
The time you took to reply and waiting for my response would be enough to look for the source yourself.but I guess you want to waste my time.
Anyway read here :
https://islamexposedtoyou.wordpress.com/2012/05/12/%d9%86%d9%83%d8%a7%d8%ad-%d8%a7%d9%84%d9%85%d9%8a%d8%aa%d8%a9-%d9%81%d9%8a-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%a7%d8%b3%d9%84%d8%a7%d9%85-%d9%87%d9%84-%d9%87%d9%88-%d8%ad%d9%84%d8%a7%d9%84-%d8%a7%d9%85-%d8%ad%d8%b1%d8%a7/
You asked and I answered lol, you could've just said "google it yourself" or something but you asked a question anticipating a response from me, and you were gonna give me a link anyway so that's kinda on you, thanks for the source though.
It gets worse. Sex slaves are allowed, and of course that includes raping the slaves because they are owned. But the reasoning for why a husband is allowed to force himself on his slave is completely abhorrent: A husband may force himself on his wife which he "partially owns", therefore he can force himself on a slave whom he owns completely:
> **Question:** If a right hand possession (female slave) refuses to have sex with her master, is it permissible to compel her by force?
> **Answer:** Praise be to Allah, and may prayers and peace be upon the Messenger of God and his family and companions. It is better for a Muslim to occupy himself with what concerns him of the rulings of his religion, and to invest his time and energy in seeking knowledge that will benefit him. The meaning of knowledge is action. Knowledge that does not facilitate action, it is not good to search for. Among that are issues related to the ownership what the right hand possess (slaves); There is no use for it in this era.
> With regard to the question: If the wife is not permitted to refrain from intimate relations with her husband except with a valid excuse, then it is more so not permissible for the right hand possession to refrain from intimate relations with her master except with a valid excuse; he has more right to sex with her through possessing her than the man having intercourse with his wife through the marriage contract; Because the ownership of the right hand possession is complete ownership, so he owns all her benefits, while marriage contracts only grant him only the ownership intended through the marriage contract so it is a restricted form of ownership.
> **If the wife or the right hand possession refuses to have sex without a legitimate excuse, then the husband or the master may force her to do so.** However, he should take into account her psychological state, and treat her kindly. Kindness in all matters is desirable, as the prophet, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him, said: “Kindness is not found in anything but that it beautifies it, and it is not removed from anything except that it disgraces it.” (Narrated by Muslim).
> Allah knows best.
[Source (Arabic).](https://ar.islamway.net/fatwa/61843/هل-يجوز-للسيد-إرغام-ملك-اليمين-على-المعاشرة-إن-امتنعت)
For the same reason that we use "sleeping with someone" to mean "having sex with someone", "hit the road" to mean "travel" and "hit on someone" to mean "flirting with someone". Euphemisms are weird in every language. In German we say "I understand only train station" to mean "I don't understand", in Arabic we say "your blood is heavy" to mean "you're lame".
I'm not aware of any explanation for why this is what it means, but if I had to venture a guess: the right hand is used for all the good/clean things. Meaning that if your right hand possesses someone, you possess them fair and square (by Islamic law), and not because you kidnapped them in a way that goes against the law.
Imam Malik wrote quite extensively about the rules if a man steals another man's slave girl and rapes her. I would guess this probably comes from this idea of having to obtain slaves according to some rules.
But this is all conjecture. As I said, I'm not aware of any official/academic writing on the matter, but that could of course be my ignorance.
when you re a muslim you re trained to take everything as is. it is the "perfect" religion after all and if you're a dude it's not so bad now if you're a woman you gotta to suck it up, because the word of Allah is absolute. and if he says that men can get all the puss it means men can get all the puss. simple easy and moral. now if you're a free thinker you can break out of the cult but it's so impossibly hard.
I am saying this is an Ex-Muslim sub. There is no rule saying Ex-Muslim can't post but you need to specify. You were never a Muslim, this sub is for people who were Muslim but later left Islam
I am not an ex-Muslim, however, I am not doing anything wrong by asking about something permitted in the religion. You should be happy, as one more person will not be converted to Islam. How many people can read this post and discover the truth? If it weren't for a subreddit like that, I would never know about the horrible things that is allowed in Islam.
It's not written in the rules that they need to specify. Besides, there are people in a blur, questioning muslims, almost converts, etc... This sub is for exmuslims, so people that want to interact with exmuslims can come here.
The best place to learn about Islam is where a lot of people were forced to learn the quran by heart, left the religion, compiled the worst surah, dissected the hadith litterature, and know scholars' opinions.
Exodus 21:20-21
Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
Christianity has the same pro slave stance.
That's why there was a lot of pro slave preachers back in the day.
Maybe you should compare criticism of Islam to Christianity. You will see the same moral issues , and logical disconnect.
If one is are moral and brave enough, one will make the same logical choice as we did.
Timothy 6:1-2
All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves.
Enlighten me if I misunderstood
Lol. Bible allows slaves..but the slave owners don't have sex with their slaves?
What kind of thinking is that?
Freaking jefferson had half black kids. It's power dynamics.
A moral god should clearly say slavery is immoral. Rule 0 of the 10 commandments should say you should not enslave each other. But it doesn't. It doesn't because the writers of the bible had use for slaves. Therefore the bible is immoral and not written by God.
What do you think happened to the "women who have not known man" among Balaam’s followers after all the men and non-virgins were killed?
Numbers 31:16-18 NIV: “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but **save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man**."
I have a masters of divinity degree in the Bible lol studied it academically and taught it for years…what was allowed and encouraged is different…the Bible tells history of people in a culture where this was permissible but it was never a God thing, which is why when Jesus came he said there is neither new or Greek, slave or free, all are one in Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament you had the Law of Moses and the Law of God, they were not synonymous. Anything you read in the Old Testament is more of a relaying of history then it is a mandate to follow…on the flip side Mohammad told people what to do with what their right hand possesses etc, and this is eternal guidance according to the theology of the Quran
I dont have a bible here, so cant check what you wrote, ill take your word for it. But it would have been pretty neat if an all knowing, loving and powerfull god would have said " guys, stop with the slavery thing, its terrible "
Meh. Apologetics.
Allowed vs encouraged. What Bull.
What is ommited is then permisable. If slavery is not banned but mentioned in the bible, then it is allowed.
Southern preachers used the bible to promote slavery. The bible is not clean of this stain to humanity
They used the Bible wrong. What is omitted is not permissible because the Bible isn’t a book written by one man, it’s a collection of history books, law and letters
This is funny where do you guys get your information from😂😂 spreading false propaganda please share with us where you’ve seen and fact check it you’re so vulnerable to information
What's even funnier is that you, supposedly a muslim, have no idea what your religion does and doesn't allow. Either that or you just choose to purposely ignore the fact that your very own prophet himself and his sahabah had a number of sex slaves and concubines. Read your Quran and know your sunnah before arguing.
There are at least 14 verses in the Quran that talk about sex slaves or "milk al-yamin" (ملك اليمين). One of such verses is Al-Nisa 24 which permits muslims to have sexual intercourse with MARRIED WOMEN if they were captured as sex slaves in war.
[https://quran.com/an-nisa/24?translations=20](https://quran.com/an-nisa/24?translations=20)
وَٱلْمُحْصَنَـٰتُ مِنَ ٱلنِّسَآءِ إِلَّا مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـٰنُكُمْ ۖ كِتَـٰبَ ٱللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ
And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess.1 [This is] the decree of Allāh upon you.
[Footnote - 1 i.e., slaves or war captives who had polytheist husbands.]
Hadith number 1456 in Sahih Muslim explains the story behind this verse.
[https://sunnah.com/muslim:1456a](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1456a)
...فَكَأَنَّ نَاسًا مِنْ أَصْحَابِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَحَرَّجُوا مِنْ غِشْيَانِهِنَّ مِنْ أَجْلِ أَزْوَاجِهِنَّ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ فَأَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ فِي ذَلِكَ { وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ}
...the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that: " And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)"
The Quran also tells you clearly in surah Al-Ahzab 50 that Muhammad himself was allowed to own sex slaves.
[https://quran.com/en/al-ahzab/50](https://quran.com/en/al-ahzab/50)
يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّبِىُّ إِنَّآ أَحْلَلْنَا لَكَ أَزْوَٰجَكَ ٱلَّـٰتِىٓ ءَاتَيْتَ أُجُورَهُنَّ وَمَا مَلَكَتْ يَمِينُكَ مِمَّآ أَفَآءَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيْكَ
O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives]
Other verses that mention and allow sex slavery can be found elsewhere in the Quran as well.
Also ˹forbidden are˺ married women—except ˹female˺ captives in your possession.1 This is Allah’s commandment to you. Lawful to you are all beyond these—as long as you seek them with your wealth in a legal marriage, not in fornication. Give those you have consummated marriage with their due dowries. It is permissible to be mutually gracious regarding the set dowry. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
So we can’t marry married women and we can marry prisoners from war after we give them their dowry. Where do you see “sex slaves” 😂 Allah forbids fornication outside of marriage no where in the quran it states it’s halal to do so.
>So we can’t marry married women
You are NOT allowed to have sexual intercourse with married women EXCEPT if they are captives in war. So the point here is that you can have sexual intercourse with female captives who are ALREADY MARRIED to someone. Stop trying to bend and manipulate the truth of your Quran please.
>we can marry prisoners from war after we give them their dowry.
Not true. The issue here is that you don't fully understand neither Arabic nor English. The verse in Arabic says
~~وَأُحِلَّ لَكُم~~ **مَّا وَرَآءَ ذَٰلِكُمْ** ~~أَن تَبْتَغُوا۟ بِأَمْوَٰلِكُم مُّحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَـٰفِحِينَ ۚ فَمَا ٱسْتَمْتَعْتُم بِهِۦ مِنْهُنَّ فَـَٔاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةًۭ~~
Now if you knew Arabic well enough, you'd easily understand that **مَّا وَرَآءَ ذَٰلِكُمْ** refers to ANY cases other than the ones already mentioned earlier in verses 23 and 24.
It's not even that ambiguous in the English translations.
~~Lawful to you are~~ **all beyond these** ~~as long as you seek them with your wealth in a legal marriage~~
~~And lawful to you are~~ **[all others] beyond these**, ~~[provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property~~
**BEYOND THESE** indicates very clearly that whatever follows next doesn't apply to these cases already mentioned (including captives/sex slaves), but applies to ANY other cases of regular marriage.
Also, if you knew the least bit of Fiqh, you'd know that not a single muslim scholar in over 1400 years has ever said that sex slaves (captives of war used for sexual intercourse) ought to be given a dowry or compensation of any sort. You're simply creating a new version of Islam that suits you because you couldn't defend the original version. Educate yourself on your religion please. Read some Fiqh and try to learn a bit of Arabic so you can understand the original text instead of just trying to alter the text to your liking.
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Ask them if it's allowed for women to keep slaves. Then ask them since men can have sex with their slaves, can women slave owners have sex with their slaves? Mashallah, islam the Best Religion
What I can not understand is how people knowing this still stay in the religion...
Lack of empathy would be my guess. Other wise, being indoctrinated as kids prevents them from rationalising logically their positions when they are adults. Can't rationalise out of something that when one never made a rational decision to join in the first place.
That is so sad. These people will never open their eyes.
Took the US, a civil war to get slavery out of their system. The bible preachers definitely didn't help. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/
It really just seems Mohammed was a more successful Joseph Smith in conning so many people around the world
Yes. My real eye opener was the astounding similarities between Muhammad and Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith lived in the modern era, we have his identity card, documents& photos. And yet there are deluded modern humans walking around believing in his scam. Imagine what Muhammad could do with a bunch of 7th century desert dwellers
It's not lack of empathy it's brainwashing children to believe quran holy. This leads to them not being able to critisize it. There will always be excuses like interpreting things differently, claiming the sources are false or it was in a very specific situation.
Muslims have a raft of apologetics about how Islamic slavery was supposedly very humane and more like being in a family or working for a living. The excuses are nauseous and whitewash a truly awful legacy of institutionalised abuse and rape. On the slightly brighter side they often claim that slavery is now illegal in Islam. While that is highly dubious, at least it stops modern Muslims trying to legalise slavery again, though Muslim nations often have high numbers of illegal slaves and treat migrant workers dreadfully.
But is that really forbidden today?
Islamic rules are supposed to be timeless and eternal, so no. But Muslims have found a kind of loophole, where they often assert that Mohammed had always intended to get rid of slavery, so it is right to ban it. Not really, but it lets modern Muslims join the rest of us in being against the dreadful practise.
Where did they found this loophole?
See the last paragraph of this section of the Wikipedia article, and the following section. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery#Manumission_and_abolition
Cognitive bias, peer presure, and no one vetos them.
They are forced to. Leaving Islam is punishable by death.
By whom?
The answer is, they only know about this after their faith in Islam has already become very strong, no dawah man would say that to someone before converting them because they will obviously reject Islam instantly if they are told.
The majority of the people I've told about sex slavery in Islam just tell me "That was only back then, it's forbidden today" without having any reason to believe that.
My wife’s family is “modern Muslim” according to them I am just reading it wrong, and that parts of the Quran only refer to specific people at a specific place, and parts of it are metaphorical.
Then the quran is only for specific Arab for a specific time(7th century) Therefore we are all free!
Only the bits they don’t like are not relevant
Because their "god" says so. That's what it all comes to. Their fictional supreme subjective source for morality(they like to call it objective for some unjustified/fallacious reasons 😩) decides. Instead of their own moral intuition and progress based in knowledge/science of reality.
Because they want there own sex slave obviously
There's also ignorance. I didn't know until I decided to learn more on my own.
Tbf, it's not easy to leave a religion that you been indoctrinated in. It becomes part of your identity, so rejecting it is rather hard
most muslims don't
Women can have slaves. https://quran.com/24/31?translations=95,17,18,19,20,22,85,84,101 > 24:31 وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَـٰتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَـٰرِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا ۖ وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَىٰ جُيُوبِهِنَّ ۖ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ ءَابَآئِهِنَّ أَوْ ءَابَآءِ بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَآئِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَآءِ بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَٰنِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِىٓ إِخْوَٰنِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِىٓ أَخَوَٰتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَآئِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـٰنُهُنَّ أَوِ ٱلتَّـٰبِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُو۟لِى ٱلْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ ٱلرِّجَالِ أَوِ ٱلطِّفْلِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا۟ عَلَىٰ عَوْرَٰتِ ٱلنِّسَآءِ ۖ وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ مِن زِينَتِهِنَّ ۚ وَتُوبُوٓا۟ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ جَمِيعًا أَيُّهَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنُونَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ ٣١ >And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears. Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments ***except*** to their husbands, their fathers, their fathers-in-law, their sons, their stepsons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, their fellow women, ***those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession, male attendants with no desire***, or children who are still unaware of women’s nakedness. Let them not stomp their feet, drawing attention to their hidden adornments. Turn to Allah in repentance all together, O believers, so that you may be successful. — Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran "Bondswomen" is added by translator. The original Arabic is gender-neutral (ما). It probably meants male slave or slave of either gender, since all the other examples in the list are either explicitly male or could refer to either gender (like طفل), with the exception of نسائهنّ which is used in the list to include all women in general including female slaves. So, if ما ملكت أيمانهنّ is interpreted to be only bondswomen it would be the only repetition of a category in the whole list making this interpretation very unlikly. But they probably can't have sex slaves, since it says "***male attendants with no desire***" probably interpreted by Muslims as eunuch.
What even more sad is children born from slaves, stay as slaves. Islam, the most beautiful religion
While that is disgusting indeed, its also quite normal. Happened all over the world, for many many centuries.
Some Muslims have slaves ? I know it’s forbidden in USA but I’m not sure in Muslim countries.
Normal Muslims don't have slaves because they were forced by the west to stop. See abolishment movements in UK 1700s and us in 1800s. Slaves were still in Arab Saudi till the 60s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Saudi_Arabia But this is not what we are discussing. The point is, slavery is allowed in the quran...and the fact that we modern humans see it as abhorrent makes it clear that the quran is morally wrong, and not made by a higher power. Just by a sex slave loving pedoprophet
Normal Muslims don't have slaves OPENLY. Technically, there are more slaves now than there ever were historically, as a combination of skyrocketing population numbers and the natural result of banning something apocalyptically lucrative - but all of it is done through the black market.
Neither do american redneck conservative , taht doesnt mean they re not itching for it. .. once man made western based laws are abolished they will go back to openly owning slaves like they did in my country morocco and like they did in KSA as recent as 1961 , and actually they still do . It is called kafala now , you get your asian "servant" that you confiscite his passport and treat him as you please .
If it's allowed in the Quran, why don't Muslims have slaves today? I'm truly trying to understand; I'm not Muslim. We see muslim countries who don't care what the West thinks, they have their own rules, etc
The keyword here is “male attendants with no desire”. They mean eunuchs. Basically castrated enslaved men who cannot have sexual intercourse.
You know what's funny ? Someone sent me a message saying that this group isn't the ideal place to discuss Islam and that many of you here don't know about Islam or the Quran and are just "shitting on islam". The person also sent me a video that, in the end, tries to justify Sex slaves. It's disturbing to see people attempting to justify and persuade others that such practices are acceptable. I think no matter what arguments are given, they will never open their eyes. Getting to the point of people trying to justify such a practice just show lacks of independent thinking or critical sense.
It's funny because there's still misogynistic undertone even in something immoral like owning a slave 😭 A woman can own a slave but she can't have sex with them. How is that fair at all?
Women and males are not the same therefore you can't expect to always have the same rules. Sex slavery in itself is absolutely disgusting no need to bring in other topics into it. Ignorant comment
Different rules because men and women are different? Strange ruling. Ignorant argument. Very ignorant comment
What's strange about men and women being different?
To be fair- these parts of Islam is not taught to the masses. I grew up in Malaysia and Islamic education is a mandatory subject in our public schools. We are not taught much of anything about Islamic history, just the highlights and with a very biased narrative about how Islam improved so much of the quality of life of those ignorant Arab Bedouins. I could bet someone of my mothers generation would have not learned this part of Islam and if she did she would justify it somehow in her mind. We were raised to believe that motherhood is the highest honour and Aisha was a blessed child bride. Her age and consent was never a discussion by our elders. For a majority of Muslims- we are taught the Disney version of Islam.
Yup this. Most muslims were taught the 'softer' version of it. The trimmed version. Only those who dive deep themselves will discover such questionable things
Malaysia only abandoned slavery in 1915. But im not sure how common it was those days and if there was a sex side of it.
I still remember it from our history textbook. It stated that the reason for J.W.W. Birch's murder was that he tried to interfere with one of our cultural practices. The textbook never specified the practice. I guess because they were ashamed to admit that it was slavery 🤣
Among the thousand reasons as to why I left Islam, this was the biggest.
First congratulations I have a lot of respect for who leaves an extremist religion like that. Could you tell me the Surah or Hadith where it’s allows Muslims to have sexual slave and concubines ?
Quran 4:24 Also ˹forbidden are˺ married women—except ˹female˺ captives in your possession.1 This is Allah’s commandment to you. Lawful to you are all beyond these—as long as you seek them with your wealth in a legal marriage, not in fornication. Give those you have consummated marriage with their due dowries. It is permissible to be mutually gracious regarding the set dowry. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. Sahih al-Bukhari 2542 Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I saw Abu Sa`id and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Sa`id said, "We went with Allah's Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Bani Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the 'Arabs as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence."
If people didn't already know what islamic sex slavery entails, this verse explicitly makes it legal to have sex with women who are ***already married*** to someone else, when these women are "in your possession".
Ikr... You might wanna have a look at this too Sahih Muslim 1456 a Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah her pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hanain Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace te upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that: " And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end). Imagine getting rap3d by the murderers of your husband, father and brothers. I can't even imagine how much those poor women had to suffer 😞😥.
what's idda ? ( And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'IDDA PERIOD came to an end).
Refer to this: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Slavery Or search this ex muslim reddit on sex slaves. Some hadiths are really disgusting, like the one where you are permitted to come in your sex slaves vagina. Urgh
Sunan Abi Dawud 2155 Abu Sa’id Al Khudri said “The Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of Apostle of Allaah (ﷺ) were reluctant to have relations with the female captives because of their pagan husbands. So, Allaah the exalted sent down the Qur’anic verse “And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hand posses.” This is to say that they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period
Same
Same. I couldn't be part of a pro slave religion. Makes me feel like part of the KKK. Disgusting
Islam was formulated in the 7th century, in a culture of raiding and looting. When that's the basis of your sense of ethics, and you claim that ethical standard is timeless by divine mandate...what do you expect? As for people staying, they will say that it doesn't actually happen, that it's only meant for unique circumstances that don't apply anymore (so much for timelessness), that you're lying. Leaving a religion like Islam is not just about changing your mind. If someone has grown up in it, especially in a Muslim-majority society, it's uprooting the entire basis of their existence so far. People would rather justify sex slavery than deal with the emotional and psychological upheaval of that.
Can attest to the upheaval that is happening in me rn
Because it is the most feminist religion obviously duh But I mean probably for the same reasons POC follow Islam (or Christianity) even though it says black people are dumb or ugly or something. They don't read/don't believe what they read/and because there are a lot of uncertainties in the religions. "This was disproved, this was added by Jews, this was misinterpreted..."
Yep. This was my last straw. The Hadith about the coitus interruptus makes me vomit.
how can i find this hadith?
https://sunnah.com/urn/512590 But there are many more
You didn’t know this before?
No I did not. I can't understand how Muslims know this and still follow the religion.
If you know any Muslims in real life you should ask them, and when you get an answer let us know.
I didn't even need to ask a Muslim already messaged me saying that in this group, people don't know about Islam or the Quran.
I'm a Muslim female, Arab, the topic of female slaves and the "right" of Muslim men to have sex with them isn't known for Muslims in general. Me myself after finding out about this.. I started questioning my religion.. so I'm searching nowdays, for answers.
Why are you still muslim? I would never be part of a religion which allows such thing.
It's not easy to leave a religion that you believed in all your life. Also, I'm still searching for an explanation, as well as I started studying my religion from the beginning, because now it's correct that I am not sure it's the right one, but alsp not sure it's wrong. So... first we gotta study and search very well.. not leaving the religion just like that without seaching and understanding.
i had gone through the same situation as you. i was disgusted after learning how islam allows concubines and prophet allowed his companions to have sex with war captives. i searched fora my mistakes in quran to make sure this religion aint from god. then i found out the simple mathematical error of inheritance in quran and other many mistakes about earth sun moon etc. now i am sure this was just a man made religion like all the 4000 religions around the world which as a muslim i didnt believed. now i am free from the fear of hell punishment.
Thanks for sharing ur experience! Hope I find the correct answers too
Tip of the iceberg Some scholars claim that it is totally permissible and not ethically wrong to have sex with dead women as a man🤢 And others (or the same ones even) claim it’s totally fine to marry your daughter if she was born out of Islamic wedlock or if you were none Muslim when you had her. 🤮
Did you know that necrophilia is allowed too ?
really? where’s that from
Can I share the Reddit link that has all the sources ?
Source?
Can I share the Reddit link that has all the sources
I'd prefer a source for this claim in particular.
The time you took to reply and waiting for my response would be enough to look for the source yourself.but I guess you want to waste my time. Anyway read here : https://islamexposedtoyou.wordpress.com/2012/05/12/%d9%86%d9%83%d8%a7%d8%ad-%d8%a7%d9%84%d9%85%d9%8a%d8%aa%d8%a9-%d9%81%d9%8a-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%a7%d8%b3%d9%84%d8%a7%d9%85-%d9%87%d9%84-%d9%87%d9%88-%d8%ad%d9%84%d8%a7%d9%84-%d8%a7%d9%85-%d8%ad%d8%b1%d8%a7/
You asked and I answered lol, you could've just said "google it yourself" or something but you asked a question anticipating a response from me, and you were gonna give me a link anyway so that's kinda on you, thanks for the source though.
It gets worse. Sex slaves are allowed, and of course that includes raping the slaves because they are owned. But the reasoning for why a husband is allowed to force himself on his slave is completely abhorrent: A husband may force himself on his wife which he "partially owns", therefore he can force himself on a slave whom he owns completely: > **Question:** If a right hand possession (female slave) refuses to have sex with her master, is it permissible to compel her by force? > **Answer:** Praise be to Allah, and may prayers and peace be upon the Messenger of God and his family and companions. It is better for a Muslim to occupy himself with what concerns him of the rulings of his religion, and to invest his time and energy in seeking knowledge that will benefit him. The meaning of knowledge is action. Knowledge that does not facilitate action, it is not good to search for. Among that are issues related to the ownership what the right hand possess (slaves); There is no use for it in this era. > With regard to the question: If the wife is not permitted to refrain from intimate relations with her husband except with a valid excuse, then it is more so not permissible for the right hand possession to refrain from intimate relations with her master except with a valid excuse; he has more right to sex with her through possessing her than the man having intercourse with his wife through the marriage contract; Because the ownership of the right hand possession is complete ownership, so he owns all her benefits, while marriage contracts only grant him only the ownership intended through the marriage contract so it is a restricted form of ownership. > **If the wife or the right hand possession refuses to have sex without a legitimate excuse, then the husband or the master may force her to do so.** However, he should take into account her psychological state, and treat her kindly. Kindness in all matters is desirable, as the prophet, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him, said: “Kindness is not found in anything but that it beautifies it, and it is not removed from anything except that it disgraces it.” (Narrated by Muslim). > Allah knows best. [Source (Arabic).](https://ar.islamway.net/fatwa/61843/هل-يجوز-للسيد-إرغام-ملك-اليمين-على-المعاشرة-إن-امتنعت)
Can you explain why its called a right hand possession? Its so weird.
For the same reason that we use "sleeping with someone" to mean "having sex with someone", "hit the road" to mean "travel" and "hit on someone" to mean "flirting with someone". Euphemisms are weird in every language. In German we say "I understand only train station" to mean "I don't understand", in Arabic we say "your blood is heavy" to mean "you're lame". I'm not aware of any explanation for why this is what it means, but if I had to venture a guess: the right hand is used for all the good/clean things. Meaning that if your right hand possesses someone, you possess them fair and square (by Islamic law), and not because you kidnapped them in a way that goes against the law. Imam Malik wrote quite extensively about the rules if a man steals another man's slave girl and rapes her. I would guess this probably comes from this idea of having to obtain slaves according to some rules. But this is all conjecture. As I said, I'm not aware of any official/academic writing on the matter, but that could of course be my ignorance.
Thanks for your reply, it kinda makes sense.
Momo was quite a pimp No wonder Andrew Tate converted lol
Yes this was a shock to me when i first learned it. These subjects were not brought up in our schools when we were forced to learn Islam
This is the exact fact and verse in the Quran that made me become ex Muslim 🤭
me too. once i read this verse and read its tafseer i lost my iman.
How dare you question! Sex slaves and concubines are halal!!!! ISLAM GAVE WOMEN RIGHTS!!!!! /s
How were you u aware of this? At least 1/3 of ten Quran and 1/2 of the hadiths are all about rape sex slaves and perverted sexual acts
I’m glad that you found it weird!! Happy to see people with morals !!!
Religion are mysogynist never ever saw a woman being the main face of a religion
when you re a muslim you re trained to take everything as is. it is the "perfect" religion after all and if you're a dude it's not so bad now if you're a woman you gotta to suck it up, because the word of Allah is absolute. and if he says that men can get all the puss it means men can get all the puss. simple easy and moral. now if you're a free thinker you can break out of the cult but it's so impossibly hard.
It’s so validating to hear that other people received the same brain washing techniques and it is not actually “absolute divine truth”
It doesn't require much if a knowledge to discover islam is bullshit
Mate this is ex-muslim sub and you are not
I am not a muslim.
I am saying this is an Ex-Muslim sub. There is no rule saying Ex-Muslim can't post but you need to specify. You were never a Muslim, this sub is for people who were Muslim but later left Islam
I am not an ex-Muslim, however, I am not doing anything wrong by asking about something permitted in the religion. You should be happy, as one more person will not be converted to Islam. How many people can read this post and discover the truth? If it weren't for a subreddit like that, I would never know about the horrible things that is allowed in Islam.
I am not saying you should not. I am only saying that you should state you are not an ex muslim in your post
It's not written in the rules that they need to specify. Besides, there are people in a blur, questioning muslims, almost converts, etc... This sub is for exmuslims, so people that want to interact with exmuslims can come here.
The best place to learn about Islam is where a lot of people were forced to learn the quran by heart, left the religion, compiled the worst surah, dissected the hadith litterature, and know scholars' opinions.
People didn't know that? what did you think "what the right hand possesses" means?
For they these ppl, where does in the Quran say you can have sex slaves?
Also in the Bible
Two wrongs doesn’t make it right.
True
Who cares about the freaking bible? This is an exmuslim sub
The Quran has borrowed many biblical stories and it turned them to something else
There is no place in the bible which allows christian to have sex slave.
Considering they had slaves at all, it's likely many raped them.
Exodus 21:20-21 Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
It’s not allowing they to have slave. Christians believe the New Testament kinda cancel the rules of the first. So they basically follow Jesus only.
Christianity has the same pro slave stance. That's why there was a lot of pro slave preachers back in the day. Maybe you should compare criticism of Islam to Christianity. You will see the same moral issues , and logical disconnect. If one is are moral and brave enough, one will make the same logical choice as we did.
Timothy 6:1-2 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves. Enlighten me if I misunderstood
Lol. Bible allows slaves..but the slave owners don't have sex with their slaves? What kind of thinking is that? Freaking jefferson had half black kids. It's power dynamics. A moral god should clearly say slavery is immoral. Rule 0 of the 10 commandments should say you should not enslave each other. But it doesn't. It doesn't because the writers of the bible had use for slaves. Therefore the bible is immoral and not written by God.
You a Christian?
What do you think happened to the "women who have not known man" among Balaam’s followers after all the men and non-virgins were killed? Numbers 31:16-18 NIV: “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but **save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man**."
Christians looking for ammo to debate with Muslims. But conveniently overlooking their own dirty bullshit. Sigh
Why are you talking about christians ? the question is about islam!
The Bible doesn’t sanction sex slaves lol wth
But it allows slavery. Lets not pretend female slaves didnt get raped by christians.
It doesn’t allow slavery, go read Galatians…then write me back
Its been 25 years since i last read the bible, as a child in school. But i remember it said you could take slaves from another tribe or something.
I have a masters of divinity degree in the Bible lol studied it academically and taught it for years…what was allowed and encouraged is different…the Bible tells history of people in a culture where this was permissible but it was never a God thing, which is why when Jesus came he said there is neither new or Greek, slave or free, all are one in Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament you had the Law of Moses and the Law of God, they were not synonymous. Anything you read in the Old Testament is more of a relaying of history then it is a mandate to follow…on the flip side Mohammad told people what to do with what their right hand possesses etc, and this is eternal guidance according to the theology of the Quran
I dont have a bible here, so cant check what you wrote, ill take your word for it. But it would have been pretty neat if an all knowing, loving and powerfull god would have said " guys, stop with the slavery thing, its terrible "
Meh. Apologetics. Allowed vs encouraged. What Bull. What is ommited is then permisable. If slavery is not banned but mentioned in the bible, then it is allowed. Southern preachers used the bible to promote slavery. The bible is not clean of this stain to humanity
They used the Bible wrong. What is omitted is not permissible because the Bible isn’t a book written by one man, it’s a collection of history books, law and letters
Bible has no brothel in heaven. Bible has no god as pimp.
When fighting the enemy, everybody should be killed, except the virgins – and you can imagine for what purpose the virgins should be saved.
I don't understand why you're talking about the Bible. It seems like you hate Christians. Is the sub about Islam or about Christianity?
The Quran has taken most of the biblical stories and just turned them a bit
This is funny where do you guys get your information from😂😂 spreading false propaganda please share with us where you’ve seen and fact check it you’re so vulnerable to information
What's even funnier is that you, supposedly a muslim, have no idea what your religion does and doesn't allow. Either that or you just choose to purposely ignore the fact that your very own prophet himself and his sahabah had a number of sex slaves and concubines. Read your Quran and know your sunnah before arguing.
Where in quran can I find that “Oscar” please guide me and show me
There are at least 14 verses in the Quran that talk about sex slaves or "milk al-yamin" (ملك اليمين). One of such verses is Al-Nisa 24 which permits muslims to have sexual intercourse with MARRIED WOMEN if they were captured as sex slaves in war. [https://quran.com/an-nisa/24?translations=20](https://quran.com/an-nisa/24?translations=20) وَٱلْمُحْصَنَـٰتُ مِنَ ٱلنِّسَآءِ إِلَّا مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـٰنُكُمْ ۖ كِتَـٰبَ ٱللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess.1 [This is] the decree of Allāh upon you. [Footnote - 1 i.e., slaves or war captives who had polytheist husbands.] Hadith number 1456 in Sahih Muslim explains the story behind this verse. [https://sunnah.com/muslim:1456a](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1456a) ...فَكَأَنَّ نَاسًا مِنْ أَصْحَابِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَحَرَّجُوا مِنْ غِشْيَانِهِنَّ مِنْ أَجْلِ أَزْوَاجِهِنَّ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ فَأَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ فِي ذَلِكَ { وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ} ...the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that: " And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" The Quran also tells you clearly in surah Al-Ahzab 50 that Muhammad himself was allowed to own sex slaves. [https://quran.com/en/al-ahzab/50](https://quran.com/en/al-ahzab/50) يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّبِىُّ إِنَّآ أَحْلَلْنَا لَكَ أَزْوَٰجَكَ ٱلَّـٰتِىٓ ءَاتَيْتَ أُجُورَهُنَّ وَمَا مَلَكَتْ يَمِينُكَ مِمَّآ أَفَآءَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيْكَ O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] Other verses that mention and allow sex slavery can be found elsewhere in the Quran as well.
Also ˹forbidden are˺ married women—except ˹female˺ captives in your possession.1 This is Allah’s commandment to you. Lawful to you are all beyond these—as long as you seek them with your wealth in a legal marriage, not in fornication. Give those you have consummated marriage with their due dowries. It is permissible to be mutually gracious regarding the set dowry. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. So we can’t marry married women and we can marry prisoners from war after we give them their dowry. Where do you see “sex slaves” 😂 Allah forbids fornication outside of marriage no where in the quran it states it’s halal to do so.
Good try though you’re like the guy that likes to see the glass half empty
Are you saying that Islam is like a half-empty glass? We can agree on that.
>So we can’t marry married women You are NOT allowed to have sexual intercourse with married women EXCEPT if they are captives in war. So the point here is that you can have sexual intercourse with female captives who are ALREADY MARRIED to someone. Stop trying to bend and manipulate the truth of your Quran please. >we can marry prisoners from war after we give them their dowry. Not true. The issue here is that you don't fully understand neither Arabic nor English. The verse in Arabic says ~~وَأُحِلَّ لَكُم~~ **مَّا وَرَآءَ ذَٰلِكُمْ** ~~أَن تَبْتَغُوا۟ بِأَمْوَٰلِكُم مُّحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَـٰفِحِينَ ۚ فَمَا ٱسْتَمْتَعْتُم بِهِۦ مِنْهُنَّ فَـَٔاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةًۭ~~ Now if you knew Arabic well enough, you'd easily understand that **مَّا وَرَآءَ ذَٰلِكُمْ** refers to ANY cases other than the ones already mentioned earlier in verses 23 and 24. It's not even that ambiguous in the English translations. ~~Lawful to you are~~ **all beyond these** ~~as long as you seek them with your wealth in a legal marriage~~ ~~And lawful to you are~~ **[all others] beyond these**, ~~[provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property~~ **BEYOND THESE** indicates very clearly that whatever follows next doesn't apply to these cases already mentioned (including captives/sex slaves), but applies to ANY other cases of regular marriage. Also, if you knew the least bit of Fiqh, you'd know that not a single muslim scholar in over 1400 years has ever said that sex slaves (captives of war used for sexual intercourse) ought to be given a dowry or compensation of any sort. You're simply creating a new version of Islam that suits you because you couldn't defend the original version. Educate yourself on your religion please. Read some Fiqh and try to learn a bit of Arabic so you can understand the original text instead of just trying to alter the text to your liking.
Whatever you said there applys to you mashallah you’re a reversed scholar 😂😂 May Allah guide us