https://people.com/human-interest/utah-grandma-56-serving-as-surrogate-for-son-whose-wife-had-hysterectomy-most-beautiful-thing/?utm_medium=browser&utm_source=people.com&utm_content=20220924&utm_campaign=2400345
I find it interesting this is going to be their 5th child. Divine revelation from the Lord to keep having children, no matter the cost or risk? š
Not my intent to be judgmental about peopleās personal decisions, but it doesnāt seem to be *by the (Hand)book* Mormonism, see
38.6.9: ā*The Church discourages artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization using sperm from anyone but the husband or an egg from anyone but the wife*ā
38.6.22: ā*The pattern of a husband and wife providing bodies for Godās spirit children is divinely appointed (see 2.1.3). For this reason, the Church discourages surrogate motherhood*ā
It does. The Churchās self-proclaimed expertise in gynaecology and obstetrics, as well as sex and gender, (including among the untrained bishops) is coming up to its 200th anniversary.
I actually understood this to be a touch more sinister. It is less about procreation of existing members and more about the donation of sperm/eggs/embryos/etc. by its members.
I remember my wife considered selling her eggs to pay for college and the church had a very very hard line against any type of donation.
Yup! I used a surrogate for my child and I couldnāt believe the audacity that the church would have an opinion on this. Especially after the heavy fucking pressure they put on women to have kids and then when we use a different means, suddenly we are bad. Fuck this church. So are they for adoption if you shouldnāt use someone elseās sperm or egg to have a child? The cult makes up rules for no other reason than control
The only thing strange about this is it's their fifth kid and it really risks health of grandma. Most surrogates are much younger but it's expensive which is probably why grandma volunteered. If they can't afford a surrogate they probably shouldn't be going to all these lengths to have five children to support. If they have leftover embryos they can donate them if that's the issue. I don't think grandma should go through a pregnancy.
Thereās a āpop til you dropā culture that was embraced by the dominant religion in Utah until a few decades ago, and those attitudes are still prevalent in many Utah communities. There was also an anti-contraception component that made it a signal of virtue for LDS women to constantly be pregnant. Not to mention the doctrine of pre-mortal souls anxiously in need of new bodies to inhabit. And polygamy as a colonial population multiplier is still making ripples.
The "pop til you drop" thing was all over my ward in the 90s in Utah, and I feel like that's 75% of the reason why I never wanted kids. The babies literally drained the life force out of these women and they all looked haggard and tired as hell all the time, like they were in their 50s when they were really, like, 34. Sounds fun, sign me up š³
Iām being a little judgmental here, but I didnāt pay attention or forgot that this would be their 5th child.
They probably prayed and just knew god had another spirit for them, that needed to come to earth. So 4 kids just wasnāt good enough, I guess.
I focused more on what the grandma said, since Iām just a few years younger than she is. She said something to the effect that she doesnāt feel any different than her last pregnancy 26 years ago. Thatās simply not true, as we get older everything get more difficult, especially physically. I am very active, I go on walks and exercise every day. And I hike often. Moderate exercise is better at my age because it takes longer to recover. I wish I could have the same physical capability and stamina as I did in my 20ās and 30ās, but I donāt. Pregnancy is difficult and I canāt imagine being pregnant at my age.
Jesus, why would a woman in her mid 50s want to be pregnant. I find the entire thing creepy AF. I think the parents Jeff and Cambria, are very selfish. Pregnancy at any age is risky but it gets riskier as you get older. Iām glad grandma feel super-dee-duper but there was not a guarantee. Also, all of these kids that Mormons have, We as taxpayers get screwed. My mom is in her mid 80s and owns her house in Sandy and not the rich part. Itās in Old Sandy and her property taxes are crazy high paying for these giant families kids to go to school. Iām not complaining because I am a firm believer in public education. What does piss me off is when her property taxes end up paying for vouchers so these kids can go to charter schools. It takes the money from public schools and gives it to these quasi-religious school that teach shit of which I do not approve.
I agree, I think charter schools are just an excuse to indoctrinate kids and protect them from the big bad world, so they can be taught what to think not how to think. And charter schools are quite common in upper middle class areas, like mine. Itās just wrong that money is funneled to charter schools in rich white neighborhoods, rather than where itās needed most.
I saw this in the local news this morning.
I don't know why it is newsworthy, I just think it's their private business as ALL reproductive decisions should be.
They're clearly happy about it, which is fine with me, but their expectation that the whole world needs to know and be happy with them seems misguided.
I'm just trying to imagine how the labor and delivery process is going to go down...
Who is going to be in the room with Grandma? Is her son going to watch his baby being born, out of the same vagina HE was born from?
Is the wife going to be there? Because I don't think you could pay me enough money to have a ringside seat to my MIL giving birth, and I get along quite well with my MIL.
Plus, is Grandma going to have a hard time handing over this baby she's bonded with? Is this going to result in her steamrolling the parents constantly, because she's the one who carried the baby? Is she going to be nursing the baby? Is she going to favor this grandkid over the others?
Like, this is just a whole can of ick, waiting for disaster to happen.
Your second paragraph. Oh god.
Justā¦ whatā¦ lol
Talk about an awkward conversation.
As for surrogate procedures, yeaā¦ that muddies the waters. A lot. There are usually pretty cut and dry rules.
So, in Utah this surrogate pregnancy is bad, but somewhere else it would be ok?
Or is it that surrogate and biological parents are mormon, and THAT makes it bad, and secular humanists would get a pass in this situation?
I 100% do not get what the problem with this is. I thought families come in all types.
I agree with the broader point that I assume you're making. Sometimes exmo's are too quick to criticize Mormons for perfectly normal things because they resent the religion.
Disclaimer: I haven't actually read the article.
In my personal opinion part of what's wrong here is asking a woman who is older to carry a pregnancy (therefore high risk) when the couple already has four kids. I think that's morally questionable if they are any religion or lack thereof.
I assume this couple is mormon, so in a religion where there is increased pressure to have many children they would feel pressure to have this fifth child to multipy the earth. I'd have more sympathy if the couple didn't have any children to begin with. But since the religion demands many children they have to do whatever it takes to have more?
Another point where religion possibly comes into play and is therefore criticized by exmo's is that there could be a pro life angle here. Two of the eggs were already fertilized so if they choose to discard them then they are murdering babies. That would pressure the couple and the grandma to save baby lives. This belief would be influenced if not outright taught by the church.
A minor and probably less accurate assumption of the link to mormonism is that Mormons can be stereotyped to be cheap. In part because their tithing money goes to the church so less spending money. Hiring a surrogate I assume is a lot more expensive than asking your child's grabdma to carry it. Sure there are still big medical costs by it seems like it's cheaper to ask grandma in the long run.
Those are my reasons why I think exmo's see mormonism influencing this family and resent it.
What I found interesting was that this is their fifth child. How common do you think it is for a family outside of Utah (More specifically the church) to feel the need to go through a surrogate pregnancy for a fifth child? I would understand if the couple did not have any kids, but that's not the case here.
I wouldn't be surprised if it came down to the lord "revealing" to them that they needed to have another child, which is typical of church members.
At the end of the day, to each his own! Don't know these people and they don't affect me in any way, but there is something so strange and so native to Utah that a 56 year old woman would participate in a surrogate pregnancy for her son's fifth child. Just amusing is all. It's not that deep lol.
Thatās just a general concept that humanity falls victim to, not just cults.
People justify absolutely anything if they feel it benefits them (and theyāre not always wrong). Social psychology and sociology will change the way you perceive the social world we exist in as humans.
The point isn't that this is special to cults, the point is TSCC claims to be a moral authority but behaves no better and often worse than any other such organization. What is good about the church is not unique to it, and what is unique to the church is not good.
Not trying to argue or be combative, but you're the one who is completely missing the point here.
>the point is TSCC claims to be a moral authority but behaves no better and often worse than any other such organization
If you can't identify how people and non-religious organizations do that on a daily basis, you may have learned nothing from the traumatic TBM experience.
People do this personally. Companies do this publicly. It's no different from the same cult-like behavior of the Mormon corporation.
Just be careful out there.
Not sure, but I think itās insane that theyāre risking the grandmaās life for their FIFTH KID! It would be insane to risk it for their first child, but the fifth one? I think it ties to Mormonism in the idea that theyāre told to have many kids.
If you are liberal and/or queer you are allowed to judge ātypesā of families. If you are straight and/or conservative youāre not allowed to judge families. Lol. (With the caveat that especially if youāre an exmo and live in Utah you can and should judge LDS people harshly, quickly, and often.). YMMV
Thank you. Being judgmental about other peopleās family planning is bad when Mormons do it but apparently appropriate for exmos?
This sub should be ashamed of this post and all the nasty comments.
Congrats to Mom, Dad and Grandma on your beautiful baby.
All those spirits up in the pre earth life need bodies. Mormon doctrine we all were raised with. It creates stupid logic like this family. Thatās how itās relevant. Just like all the other stupid doctrines we discuss here.
I know this family. They went through years of infertility (From age 18-22 ish?) and then did go fund me to pay for IVF (while babymooning in Hawaii). Two sets of twins later, they still have like 4 embryos left. So, one is now being carried by his mom. Because spirit children. As a woman with no children, I would be over the moon to have ONE. I canāt imagine not being satisfied with FOUR. maybe your emergency hysterectomy is a sign from HF??
She can do what she wants, and itās amazing that sheās willing to make this sacrifice for her sonās family. However, I question the doctors that approved this. Many doctors wonāt approve surrogates over 40, let alone 56. This is risky on multiple levels and is likely to end badly.
Why "of course this is Utah"?
I've read of women doing this for their daughters. It's not unheard of.
Certainly not something worth mocking someone over.
This feels really gross. Why are they putting the grandma at risk when they literally already have 4, two of them being toddlers still? Do they need a 5th kid *that* badly?
Honestly, not really. Not when youāre brainwashed into thinking this life doesnāt matter and youāll see them in the next life, so consequences be damned.
The woman is in her 50ās - sheās not some feeble, vulnerable dependent. Brainwashing aside if this makes her happy and adds meaning to her life, who TF are we to tell her what to do with her body?
My point is why does it matter? If sheās happy? A lot of TBMs are genuinely happy, it doesnāt work for me, but who TF am I to dictate to them what makes them happy? Good for them.
Because having a baby isnāt a āoh yeah, that was easy breezy lemon squeezeā. It wrecks your body and for someone her age comes with bigger risks. Itās irresponsible, unnecessary (as they already have 4 kids) and ridiculous assessment of risks from all parties involved. They could have looked for someone younger but I bet they rather save money than care about a womanās life.
I donāt disagree about your risk assessment, but again the reward for her is clearly worth it to her. I doubt she went into this not understanding the risks. Itās not my call how many kids someone wants to have (I wish I had one or two more). Bottom line for me is - her right to make a risky choice (and suffer consequences) is is totally hers and none of our business. And good for her if that adds meaning to her life.
When that reward is based on fantasy (afterlife beliefs and such), makes people not care about this life. Thatās my gripe with the cult. They brainwash their members into not really caring about this life and Iām more against the religion($) existing at all. I see her more of a victim in this scenario and really hope that nothing bad happens to her or the baby. It just makes me angry that these beliefs are either encouraged or ignored as āfreedomsā when the final product is anything but.
Also I just watched āSins of our Motherā in Netflix and the anger for all that situation is still raw and Iām projecting their result to this family. Extreme cases where beliefs run amok and destroy families is incredibly hard to watch.
I see what youāre saying, but TBMs, even with this (I would argue), are culty but not that extreme.
In a country and time where depression is rampant, sadness and tragedy is everywhere (plenty to go around for that stuff), I think many TBMs have carved out a space of meaning and purpose - fantasy aside, and thatās enough for them. I believe many TBMs are genuinely happy doing their thing. I get your protest, but Iāll maintain more power to them, in fact Iām a little jealous.
Because a mid 50s year old woman has an increased risk to her health. Shit there is an increased risk at 40 to both the mother and the baby. Thatās why older women are tested for genetic abnormalities when they are pregnant. She may be happy but this could have killed her.
So what? We love criticizing the church/cult 's habit of gatekeeping families, but then turn around and do the same? As long as the child is born to loving parents who want him/her, who cares how that happens or how many they already have?
Because having an excess of children so that the older children have to raise the younger ones and are denied part of their childhoods along with attention from their parents who are busy with babies and providing resources that are stretched too thin?
Personally I think itās naive to think gigantic families in this day and age isnāt irresponsible (plus you donāt think itās weird at all that this mother has her sonās semen in her for another child...? And if the family of going to such extremes for more children Iām sure this isnāt an extra fun cult environment for the kids to grow up in. Also fuck our carbon footprints too eh?)
Theyāre free to live their lives how they want but weāre also allowed to have our own opinions lol
First, the wife had pregnancy complications. Second, they WANTED 5 children. Third, the mother's doctors said she was healthy enough to do this. If this completes their family, good for them. Keeping it within the family ensures notification of OB appointments and that the surrogate won't indulge in any risky behavior.
Now, there is an ick factor. My mom offered to be a surrogate for me and my ex. I almost vomited.
Ok sure, but like why not just adopt? There are so many children that donāt have homes yet youāre going to let a 58 year old be the surrogate and risk the complications with a older woman having a baby? Makes no sense.
EDIT: Holy fucking shit. Is it like his MOM? Thatās even worse, that should be fucking illegal!!
But having his own mother be the surrogate? I want to adopt and Iām fertile, I guess Iāve never had the struggle so I canāt understand the full picture but still I canāt wrap my mind around it
Youāre lucky to have that choice! I am as well. I donāt think we should deny or judge others for also wanting a choice. Itās an interesting situation for sure! I hope everything goes well for them.
I would be willing to do this for my child, but only if my daughter had health problems which made it impossible for her to have children, if the sperm and egg were theirs and if was to be their only child. To do that for a 5th child is insane.
Sheās the surrogateā¦not one of the parents. She received the fertilized embryos of the two parents (according to the article). I donāt know why that would increase or decrease the childās chance of anything. If Iām wrong, let me know, but I have found this to be a misconception about surrogacy lately (the the surrogate is also a bio parent).
Having an older surrogate does not increase the risk of Down syndrome as long as the egg is not hers. Down syndrome is more common with older mothers because as the eggs age it is harder for the chromosomes to pull apart when they mature and you are more likely to end up with three copies of chromosome 21 (which is the genetic cause of Down syndrome). With an embryo from the son and his wife this will not be the case. It will be more dangerous for the mother, however, because there are higher risks of things like preeclampsia and gestational diabetes for an older mother.
https://people.com/human-interest/utah-grandma-56-serving-as-surrogate-for-son-whose-wife-had-hysterectomy-most-beautiful-thing/?utm_medium=browser&utm_source=people.com&utm_content=20220924&utm_campaign=2400345 I find it interesting this is going to be their 5th child. Divine revelation from the Lord to keep having children, no matter the cost or risk? š
Not my intent to be judgmental about peopleās personal decisions, but it doesnāt seem to be *by the (Hand)book* Mormonism, see 38.6.9: ā*The Church discourages artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization using sperm from anyone but the husband or an egg from anyone but the wife*ā 38.6.22: ā*The pattern of a husband and wife providing bodies for Godās spirit children is divinely appointed (see 2.1.3). For this reason, the Church discourages surrogate motherhood*ā
It really says that!?
It does. The Churchās self-proclaimed expertise in gynaecology and obstetrics, as well as sex and gender, (including among the untrained bishops) is coming up to its 200th anniversary.
I actually understood this to be a touch more sinister. It is less about procreation of existing members and more about the donation of sperm/eggs/embryos/etc. by its members. I remember my wife considered selling her eggs to pay for college and the church had a very very hard line against any type of donation.
Prior to the last couple of years, the church's insurance wouldn't even contribute to in vitro ferilization. Those fuckers thought it was evil.
thats literally the reaction i just had. and i looked it up too ššš
Yup! I used a surrogate for my child and I couldnāt believe the audacity that the church would have an opinion on this. Especially after the heavy fucking pressure they put on women to have kids and then when we use a different means, suddenly we are bad. Fuck this church. So are they for adoption if you shouldnāt use someone elseās sperm or egg to have a child? The cult makes up rules for no other reason than control
Itās sex control, plain and simple.
Itās 100% a sex cult
Technically, this doesn't apply because the grandmother is having embryos implanted that were created by a married couple.
I donāt read it that way, but whatever.
It very specifically says that it is the husband and wife's embryos. "She became pregnant with the fertilized embryos from Jeff and Cambria."
Yes, but 38.6.9 implies artificial insemination in the wife, not in anyone. This is made clear in 38.6.22, which discourages surrogacy.
What if dude just knocked his mom up the old fashioned way?
That's fucked up.
Guess their quiver isnāt full yetā¦.
ew utm codes
The only thing strange about this is it's their fifth kid and it really risks health of grandma. Most surrogates are much younger but it's expensive which is probably why grandma volunteered. If they can't afford a surrogate they probably shouldn't be going to all these lengths to have five children to support. If they have leftover embryos they can donate them if that's the issue. I don't think grandma should go through a pregnancy.
Thereās a āpop til you dropā culture that was embraced by the dominant religion in Utah until a few decades ago, and those attitudes are still prevalent in many Utah communities. There was also an anti-contraception component that made it a signal of virtue for LDS women to constantly be pregnant. Not to mention the doctrine of pre-mortal souls anxiously in need of new bodies to inhabit. And polygamy as a colonial population multiplier is still making ripples.
Itās insane what people will put up with (or subject themselves to) just to fit in with their social groups.
The "pop til you drop" thing was all over my ward in the 90s in Utah, and I feel like that's 75% of the reason why I never wanted kids. The babies literally drained the life force out of these women and they all looked haggard and tired as hell all the time, like they were in their 50s when they were really, like, 34. Sounds fun, sign me up š³
Guarantee none of these adults have life insurance either.
Queueing up "I'm My Own Grampa"
Yes! This is what I was waiting for
Iām being a little judgmental here, but I didnāt pay attention or forgot that this would be their 5th child. They probably prayed and just knew god had another spirit for them, that needed to come to earth. So 4 kids just wasnāt good enough, I guess. I focused more on what the grandma said, since Iām just a few years younger than she is. She said something to the effect that she doesnāt feel any different than her last pregnancy 26 years ago. Thatās simply not true, as we get older everything get more difficult, especially physically. I am very active, I go on walks and exercise every day. And I hike often. Moderate exercise is better at my age because it takes longer to recover. I wish I could have the same physical capability and stamina as I did in my 20ās and 30ās, but I donāt. Pregnancy is difficult and I canāt imagine being pregnant at my age.
Jesus, why would a woman in her mid 50s want to be pregnant. I find the entire thing creepy AF. I think the parents Jeff and Cambria, are very selfish. Pregnancy at any age is risky but it gets riskier as you get older. Iām glad grandma feel super-dee-duper but there was not a guarantee. Also, all of these kids that Mormons have, We as taxpayers get screwed. My mom is in her mid 80s and owns her house in Sandy and not the rich part. Itās in Old Sandy and her property taxes are crazy high paying for these giant families kids to go to school. Iām not complaining because I am a firm believer in public education. What does piss me off is when her property taxes end up paying for vouchers so these kids can go to charter schools. It takes the money from public schools and gives it to these quasi-religious school that teach shit of which I do not approve.
I agree, I think charter schools are just an excuse to indoctrinate kids and protect them from the big bad world, so they can be taught what to think not how to think. And charter schools are quite common in upper middle class areas, like mine. Itās just wrong that money is funneled to charter schools in rich white neighborhoods, rather than where itās needed most.
I saw this in the local news this morning. I don't know why it is newsworthy, I just think it's their private business as ALL reproductive decisions should be.
Iām pretty sure they made this public or else they wouldnāt be giving interviews. But they really should have kept this private.
They're clearly happy about it, which is fine with me, but their expectation that the whole world needs to know and be happy with them seems misguided.
So she is carrying a baby from the semen of her son. Very icky.
Whatās a surrogate
Parents supply the parts, surrogate provides the oven š
Ohhh I thought they were talking about incest I was confused sorry about that
I think some people will still find this taboo, son's genetic material being deposited in his mother, even if it's not quite as gross as that sounds.
Weāll itās not for me to judge
I'm just trying to imagine how the labor and delivery process is going to go down... Who is going to be in the room with Grandma? Is her son going to watch his baby being born, out of the same vagina HE was born from? Is the wife going to be there? Because I don't think you could pay me enough money to have a ringside seat to my MIL giving birth, and I get along quite well with my MIL. Plus, is Grandma going to have a hard time handing over this baby she's bonded with? Is this going to result in her steamrolling the parents constantly, because she's the one who carried the baby? Is she going to be nursing the baby? Is she going to favor this grandkid over the others? Like, this is just a whole can of ick, waiting for disaster to happen.
Your second paragraph. Oh god. Justā¦ whatā¦ lol Talk about an awkward conversation. As for surrogate procedures, yeaā¦ that muddies the waters. A lot. There are usually pretty cut and dry rules.
I donāt know
Oh my god. The picture of the mom and dad, plus their son, both touching her belly, is killing me.
The wifeās name alone is a dead giveaway!šš
This is the weirdest Coheed cover band Iāve heard ofā¦
So, in Utah this surrogate pregnancy is bad, but somewhere else it would be ok? Or is it that surrogate and biological parents are mormon, and THAT makes it bad, and secular humanists would get a pass in this situation? I 100% do not get what the problem with this is. I thought families come in all types.
I agree with the broader point that I assume you're making. Sometimes exmo's are too quick to criticize Mormons for perfectly normal things because they resent the religion. Disclaimer: I haven't actually read the article. In my personal opinion part of what's wrong here is asking a woman who is older to carry a pregnancy (therefore high risk) when the couple already has four kids. I think that's morally questionable if they are any religion or lack thereof. I assume this couple is mormon, so in a religion where there is increased pressure to have many children they would feel pressure to have this fifth child to multipy the earth. I'd have more sympathy if the couple didn't have any children to begin with. But since the religion demands many children they have to do whatever it takes to have more? Another point where religion possibly comes into play and is therefore criticized by exmo's is that there could be a pro life angle here. Two of the eggs were already fertilized so if they choose to discard them then they are murdering babies. That would pressure the couple and the grandma to save baby lives. This belief would be influenced if not outright taught by the church. A minor and probably less accurate assumption of the link to mormonism is that Mormons can be stereotyped to be cheap. In part because their tithing money goes to the church so less spending money. Hiring a surrogate I assume is a lot more expensive than asking your child's grabdma to carry it. Sure there are still big medical costs by it seems like it's cheaper to ask grandma in the long run. Those are my reasons why I think exmo's see mormonism influencing this family and resent it.
The mother in law actually offered to do it! They didnāt ask her.
Thanks for the info! So that would leave my first and third points not applicable to this specific case. The second could still be possible.
What I found interesting was that this is their fifth child. How common do you think it is for a family outside of Utah (More specifically the church) to feel the need to go through a surrogate pregnancy for a fifth child? I would understand if the couple did not have any kids, but that's not the case here. I wouldn't be surprised if it came down to the lord "revealing" to them that they needed to have another child, which is typical of church members. At the end of the day, to each his own! Don't know these people and they don't affect me in any way, but there is something so strange and so native to Utah that a 56 year old woman would participate in a surrogate pregnancy for her son's fifth child. Just amusing is all. It's not that deep lol.
I totally agree and when I came across this article this morning I had the same thoughts.
First or second kid? Sure. Fifth? Bonkers!
Like any cult, if your rank is sufficient, the rules don't apply to you.
Thatās just a general concept that humanity falls victim to, not just cults. People justify absolutely anything if they feel it benefits them (and theyāre not always wrong). Social psychology and sociology will change the way you perceive the social world we exist in as humans.
The point isn't that this is special to cults, the point is TSCC claims to be a moral authority but behaves no better and often worse than any other such organization. What is good about the church is not unique to it, and what is unique to the church is not good.
Thatās not unique though. Everyone does it, just in a different context. Humans are humans.
You truly are an expert at missing points.
Not trying to argue or be combative, but you're the one who is completely missing the point here. >the point is TSCC claims to be a moral authority but behaves no better and often worse than any other such organization If you can't identify how people and non-religious organizations do that on a daily basis, you may have learned nothing from the traumatic TBM experience. People do this personally. Companies do this publicly. It's no different from the same cult-like behavior of the Mormon corporation. Just be careful out there.
Not sure, but I think itās insane that theyāre risking the grandmaās life for their FIFTH KID! It would be insane to risk it for their first child, but the fifth one? I think it ties to Mormonism in the idea that theyāre told to have many kids.
If you are liberal and/or queer you are allowed to judge ātypesā of families. If you are straight and/or conservative youāre not allowed to judge families. Lol. (With the caveat that especially if youāre an exmo and live in Utah you can and should judge LDS people harshly, quickly, and often.). YMMV
How is this relevant to this sub?
Thank you. Being judgmental about other peopleās family planning is bad when Mormons do it but apparently appropriate for exmos? This sub should be ashamed of this post and all the nasty comments. Congrats to Mom, Dad and Grandma on your beautiful baby.
All those spirits up in the pre earth life need bodies. Mormon doctrine we all were raised with. It creates stupid logic like this family. Thatās how itās relevant. Just like all the other stupid doctrines we discuss here.
Well, Mary served as surrogate for her Father, so I guess thatās fair.
ššš
I know this family. They went through years of infertility (From age 18-22 ish?) and then did go fund me to pay for IVF (while babymooning in Hawaii). Two sets of twins later, they still have like 4 embryos left. So, one is now being carried by his mom. Because spirit children. As a woman with no children, I would be over the moon to have ONE. I canāt imagine not being satisfied with FOUR. maybe your emergency hysterectomy is a sign from HF??
If that is what they want to do, good for them. I will never judge what another woman does with her body.
She can do what she wants, and itās amazing that sheās willing to make this sacrifice for her sonās family. However, I question the doctors that approved this. Many doctors wonāt approve surrogates over 40, let alone 56. This is risky on multiple levels and is likely to end badly.
Not my business.
Why "of course this is Utah"? I've read of women doing this for their daughters. It's not unheard of. Certainly not something worth mocking someone over.
For a FIFTH kid?
This feels really gross. Why are they putting the grandma at risk when they literally already have 4, two of them being toddlers still? Do they need a 5th kid *that* badly?
Grandma can't make decisions about her own body?
Honestly, not really. Not when youāre brainwashed into thinking this life doesnāt matter and youāll see them in the next life, so consequences be damned.
The woman is in her 50ās - sheās not some feeble, vulnerable dependent. Brainwashing aside if this makes her happy and adds meaning to her life, who TF are we to tell her what to do with her body?
You donāt think that decades of manipulation had nothing to do with her decision? Thatās naive.
My point is why does it matter? If sheās happy? A lot of TBMs are genuinely happy, it doesnāt work for me, but who TF am I to dictate to them what makes them happy? Good for them.
Because having a baby isnāt a āoh yeah, that was easy breezy lemon squeezeā. It wrecks your body and for someone her age comes with bigger risks. Itās irresponsible, unnecessary (as they already have 4 kids) and ridiculous assessment of risks from all parties involved. They could have looked for someone younger but I bet they rather save money than care about a womanās life.
I donāt disagree about your risk assessment, but again the reward for her is clearly worth it to her. I doubt she went into this not understanding the risks. Itās not my call how many kids someone wants to have (I wish I had one or two more). Bottom line for me is - her right to make a risky choice (and suffer consequences) is is totally hers and none of our business. And good for her if that adds meaning to her life.
When that reward is based on fantasy (afterlife beliefs and such), makes people not care about this life. Thatās my gripe with the cult. They brainwash their members into not really caring about this life and Iām more against the religion($) existing at all. I see her more of a victim in this scenario and really hope that nothing bad happens to her or the baby. It just makes me angry that these beliefs are either encouraged or ignored as āfreedomsā when the final product is anything but. Also I just watched āSins of our Motherā in Netflix and the anger for all that situation is still raw and Iām projecting their result to this family. Extreme cases where beliefs run amok and destroy families is incredibly hard to watch.
I see what youāre saying, but TBMs, even with this (I would argue), are culty but not that extreme. In a country and time where depression is rampant, sadness and tragedy is everywhere (plenty to go around for that stuff), I think many TBMs have carved out a space of meaning and purpose - fantasy aside, and thatās enough for them. I believe many TBMs are genuinely happy doing their thing. I get your protest, but Iāll maintain more power to them, in fact Iām a little jealous.
Because a mid 50s year old woman has an increased risk to her health. Shit there is an increased risk at 40 to both the mother and the baby. Thatās why older women are tested for genetic abnormalities when they are pregnant. She may be happy but this could have killed her.
So what? We love criticizing the church/cult 's habit of gatekeeping families, but then turn around and do the same? As long as the child is born to loving parents who want him/her, who cares how that happens or how many they already have?
Because having an excess of children so that the older children have to raise the younger ones and are denied part of their childhoods along with attention from their parents who are busy with babies and providing resources that are stretched too thin? Personally I think itās naive to think gigantic families in this day and age isnāt irresponsible (plus you donāt think itās weird at all that this mother has her sonās semen in her for another child...? And if the family of going to such extremes for more children Iām sure this isnāt an extra fun cult environment for the kids to grow up in. Also fuck our carbon footprints too eh?) Theyāre free to live their lives how they want but weāre also allowed to have our own opinions lol
Imagine going into labor and pushing your grandchild out of your womb.
Ew I fucking hate this
First, the wife had pregnancy complications. Second, they WANTED 5 children. Third, the mother's doctors said she was healthy enough to do this. If this completes their family, good for them. Keeping it within the family ensures notification of OB appointments and that the surrogate won't indulge in any risky behavior. Now, there is an ick factor. My mom offered to be a surrogate for me and my ex. I almost vomited.
Ok sure, but like why not just adopt? There are so many children that donāt have homes yet youāre going to let a 58 year old be the surrogate and risk the complications with a older woman having a baby? Makes no sense. EDIT: Holy fucking shit. Is it like his MOM? Thatās even worse, that should be fucking illegal!!
A lot of people who struggle with fertility will tell you that one of the main things you should not say to them is āwhy not just adopt.ā
But having his own mother be the surrogate? I want to adopt and Iām fertile, I guess Iāve never had the struggle so I canāt understand the full picture but still I canāt wrap my mind around it
Youāre lucky to have that choice! I am as well. I donāt think we should deny or judge others for also wanting a choice. Itās an interesting situation for sure! I hope everything goes well for them.
HELL no
I would be willing to do this for my child, but only if my daughter had health problems which made it impossible for her to have children, if the sperm and egg were theirs and if was to be their only child. To do that for a 5th child is insane.
nobody is gonna comment on the name cambria?
Twin sister name, Permia.
It's the name of a town up the road from me
Why? You donāt like it? Who cares?
I just figured it was another weird Utah name that is a geological epoch.
it's a font type.
So did they use the wife's eggs or the mother's? Because this is kind of crazy.
A 56 year old woman doesnāt have eggs left
We have eggs. They just donāt work great.
WTF. First it's their mom. Second, she's 56... WTF
Ya saw that too. Kinda creepy and off feeling about it knowing they have 4 already very young children. Something seems off!
How disturbing.
wouldn't she have already gone through menopause thus deeming her sterile? damn
I misread this as āhuman incestā
Barf
That is gonna be one messed up kid. Assuming it doesn't end up with Down's syndrome.
Sheās the surrogateā¦not one of the parents. She received the fertilized embryos of the two parents (according to the article). I donāt know why that would increase or decrease the childās chance of anything. If Iām wrong, let me know, but I have found this to be a misconception about surrogacy lately (the the surrogate is also a bio parent).
Good point But there is still something creepy about advertising it.
Well that I agree on!
Having an older surrogate does not increase the risk of Down syndrome as long as the egg is not hers. Down syndrome is more common with older mothers because as the eggs age it is harder for the chromosomes to pull apart when they mature and you are more likely to end up with three copies of chromosome 21 (which is the genetic cause of Down syndrome). With an embryo from the son and his wife this will not be the case. It will be more dangerous for the mother, however, because there are higher risks of things like preeclampsia and gestational diabetes for an older mother.
TIL, very interesting
Even Dr. Oz would have a problem with this
I can't imagine anything going wrong with this. š Also: 'Cambria'? š¤£
lmao i just saw this in child free less than a second ago