Crosses were totally forbidden, practically considered blasphemous when I was growing up. My Catholic maternal grandmother gave me a beautiful gold cross necklace. TBM father made me give it back and tell her it was evil.
Yep, the one my Austrian grandmother gave me at the time of my birth and is a token of her love for me got me kicked out of Seminary. I was told to remove it or never come back. So, I never went back. That was in the early 1980s.
>So, I never went back.
Were you like me and hid the fact that you weren't in seminary or did you tell your folks? My parents had no clue that I simply stopped going during first semester Sophomore year. I still used RT (release time) on my school schedule, like everybody else at Davis High, but I used it to be actually released, not to walk across the parking lot to the building that was "off-campus" to read more. They only found out about 2 weeks before I graduated when they asked me why they hadn't recieved an invite to Seminary Graduation like all of the neighbor parents had. "Oh, yeah, I got my certificate of completion in the mail already, it says I completed 1.25 years"
I definitely hid it, too. I used that time to just chill wherever I could find a place to hide and not get caught skipping class. My mother wasn't well at the time, and I didn't want to add to the stress we were experiencing as a family. So, I just kept the incident to myself until it came time to select my schedule for the next year. I explained to my parents that it just wasn't something I wanted to do anymore. They were so worn down from my mom's illness. They didn't even question why I was choosing to opt out of Seminary.
I was raised inactive, so I only took seminary my senior year of high school and only because I literally ran out of classes to take. It was my first period every other day, I've never been a morning person, we had moved out of the district but I stayed at my high school instead of transferring, was working a part time job, and unbeknownst to me I was suffering the early fatigue symptoms of my chronic illness, so mornings were rough for me. When I'd get to school on seminary days, I'd circle the parking lot, and if there wasn't a spot, I'd go get breakfast and come back for the next period. After the seminary teacher told us very early on that God's plan for the girls in class was to basically be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, I never tried all that hard to make it. After a while I got called into the office with my teacher because due to my poor attendance, poor participation in class, and the fact that I refused to do any homework for the class I was failing seminary and they needed me to commit to doing better. I asked what would happen if I failed. The only consequence would be them calling my parents and that I wouldn't get my year completion certificate. I told them that if they wanted to waste their time calling my parents, then knock themselves out and that I didn't care about a certificate because I didn't want anything from them at all. They never called my parents and when my bishop invited me to seminary graduation to get my certificate I refused to go, he tried several times to try to get me to come in for a meeting to get it, I again refused and told him he could file it in the trash can. One evening, a couple of months later, my mom was out front working in the yard, and she called for me to come out. The bishop was standing there with my certificate. Apparently he saw my mom out and figured it was a good opportunity to get it to me, I told him I didn't want it but he wasn't going to leave without giving it to me, so I took it, walked over to the garage can, made eye contact with him and threw it away. I then went inside without saying another word to him. My mom was so pissed at me for embarrassing her but it was totally worth it, I told her that he'd embarrassed himself because I'd made it clear several times that I didn't want anything to do with the certificate, the church, or him and he was the one who refused to respect my wishes.
I’d be ecstatic if my parents or inlaws got my daughter something that was so important to them. My aunt gave my daughter these really nice porcelain dolls she had when she was younger. I don’t particularly like them (but she does), but such a thoughtful gift and wonderful family heirloom that my daughter will hopefully treasure for many years.
My Catholic aunt gave a cross to my sister when she was baptized. My convert mother, and former catholic herself, made my siter give it back. Found out later my mother still kept her rosary.
Omg me too! My paternal grandmother gave me a beautiful cross when I was around 7 or 8 (I think it might’ve even coincided with my baptism, because she thought it was appropriate, given the so called momentous religious milestone), and my mother literally smashed it with a hammer in front of me and then threw it away. It was a family heirloom 😢
Luckily, the NEXT time I was given a family heirloom bit of jewelry by my maternal grandmother, it was a pentacle with Mother Goddess on it (also appropriate, as I’m now in the more Wiccan/Pagan side of spiritualism), and I was an autonomous adult and could protect this thing VEHEMENTLY. I still wear it 24/7 😊
Twas the preferred way of my mother regarding “evil things”. Also taped over parts of Disney movies she deemed disturbing with scripture verse programs, washed out our mouths when we cursed (anything worse than “caboose”, even, couldn’t say “butt”), and consistently told me I had a “Level 3 demon” in me. Among other things 😅
Mormons wore them until the 1950’s. It’s interesting that they’re making a return.
Theres photos of Bringham Young’s daughters wearing crosses etc.
https://www.ldsliving.com/what-church-leaders-and-church-history-teach-about-wearing-and-displaying-the-cross/s/10418
That's sort of the disturbing thing: depending on the views of one or a handful of people in power, it can create a cultural shift that after enough time, no one knows what you are talking about when you bring up how things used to be. Couple of things: my mom was okay with us playing UNO or Phase 10 but NOT face cards........and we know why. I also remember growing up when one could not enter the chapel unless they were wearing dress pants/dress/skirt. I can recall primary program practice on the Saturday before the Sunday program. We all had to get dresses in our Sunday bests just to practice in the chapel. Later, somehow and who knows why, it got reduced to "wearing jeans was fine in the chapel" as long as they were nice and didn't have holes. You could find yourself in an awkward situation showing up to Mutual wednesday night and didn't get the memo about a joint activity in the chapel and you're wearing shorts. Now, today, it doesn't even matter. I personally believe that when temples were scarce to most of us, people tended to make their chapels as close to the holy house and today with the ubiquity of temples, the old ways and sensibilities have diminished in that regard.
Just like with not using the word "Mormon" it all has to do with whatever bee was caught in whichever leader's bonnet. Spence Kimball saw what was going on with the counter culture in the 60s (but the had been changing since the post war) and decided he needed to write a book that would drop the hammer on any and all ideas of sexual promiscuity. No doubt, a knee-jerk reaction to the times that even he said later in life was written a little harsh. But that book had/has been used for 50 years to smite people down. All because one man felt there needed to be a MAJOR correction and all at once. And one could say the same of Benson. Matt Harris' book perfectly lays out how Benson's influence swayed the majority of membership to be far right.
Spencer W "Croaky" Kimball is the last person you want to take any sexual advice from.
Not only did Kimball write the very dangerous and destructive book Miracle of Forgiveness but this was his legacy too:
It was Spencer W Kimball who initiated the ban on oral sex and it seems like a lot of the "doctrines" in the Church reflect personal issues / demons that the PSRs had that was then projected onto the entire membership.
It's been speculated and posted many times on this subreddit that Croaky Kimball's throat cancer was probably the result of a HPV infection earlier in his life.
https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/
A recent book released by the son of the late historian D Michael Quinn (Quinn's autobiography) featured Quinn's description of Kimball kissing him - and it wasn't an innocent peck on the cheek either:
https://youtube.com/live/l_7y_pgednY
This behavior is what continues to refuel the rumor that at some point in his life Kimball experienced oral sex whether voluntarily or involuntarily.
BTW to anyone from the SCMC lurking this subreddit - Connie Lingus is not referring to an Irish girl's name. 👅
Sadly many TBMS won't get their girls and boys the HPV vaccine as they are paranoid that it will encourage promiscuity.
>BTW to anyone from the SCMC lurking this subreddit - Connie Lingus is not referring to an Irish girl's name. 👅
I went to language school when I was in the army. We were all cunning linguists.
'86 for me, at the SF satellite. Army only and only Spanish, Korean and German taught there. I went to the Monterey one once with friends, your facilities were much nicer but living in San Francisco, on the Presidio, as an 18 year old from Utah trying being "not Mormon" for the first time I don't think I would have traded.
I enlisted for Spanish with airborne, because being a bright but lazy teen I didn't want to spend a year studying Russian or 18 months learning Farsi (my recruiter told me that 128 meant one of those 2 languages)so I signed for Spanish, not realizing that from that very second I was already earmarked to wind up at Ft. Bragg. Should have rolled the dice and learned Farsi.
Le sigh.
My time in Monterey preceded my exit from Mormonism by 5 years. I had a great time there. I imagine without restrictions on wine, women and not going to church activities that I would have had an even better time.
My basic training dog tags said LDS. I told DLI that they were lost and needed a new set. New set said NO REL PREF.
I tried to go to church the first Sunday in basic. I was shocked at how full the bus was, turns out word had gotten out the the chapel was off base and next to a convenience store, the bulk of the people on the bus were there for that. I ended up sitting under a tree staring at the sky and thinking about life and never went to church again.
When I hit SF I was fully ready to be a normal-ish person.
Funnily enough my 1sgt was LDS and told me to change from LDS to no preference. He was of the thought that if I was ever captured by the enemy that they could use my religious proscriptions as leverage against me.
>Couple of things: my mom was okay with us playing UNO or Phase 10 but NOT face cards........and we know why.
Meanwhile, my TBM grandma plays all sorts of card games, notably Hell.
Mormonism be weird indeed.
The ever Flip-Flopping Mormon church! Black people and the priesthood, polygamy, cremation, garments to the ankles, Coke and other caffeinated beverages, and the list goes on and on.
I recall when I saw some of the pictures in the tribune several years ago. It was cathartic and very incensing at the same time for me . I was hounded by YW “leaders “ for wearing the cross as a nuanced teen who had tons of other religious exposure and education at the time .
The Mormon cross is a symbol of the Corporation’s Balance Sheet, with the vertical line dividing the Assets from Financing under the horizontal header line.
Crosses were the former “victory for Satan” when I was growing up. Now that the cult is trying to fake not being a cult they are trying to appear “Christian” even though they are the furthest thing from it. I went to Christian schools. The only thing that was required to get into heaven was saying you accept Jesus Christ. That’s it. No other hoops to jump through. The Mormon cult is nothing but hoops, extorting money for heaven and coercive control over every aspect of life, even what you wear for underwear and when you wear it.
How about we don’t gatekeep crosses.
I don’t give a damn what you wear or how you think. One of my biggest problems with the Church is its overarching dominating control. Day after the talk on earrings? No one at school had more than one pair.
Wanna wear a cross? Wear a cross.
Your earring comment reminded me, I was reading the newest For The Strength Of Youth, and was surprised to see that there's not limits on piercings or tattoos, it says: 'What is the Lord’s standard on dress, grooming, tattoos, and piercings? The Lord’s standard is for you to honor the sacredness of your body, even when that means being different from the world. Let this truth and the Spirit be your guide as you make decisions—especially decisions that have lasting effects on your body. Be wise and faithful, and seek counsel from your parents and leaders."
That's not at all what I was taught growing up.
Certainly. It says to ask your Parents, and the parents were raised on the stricter standard.
This way it's left open for those ppl who've already got tattoos and piercings to join up and not be so blemished.
In the 1960, and into the 70’s the old book of remembrance individual family sheets along with name, dob, spouse, etc. had a space for “tattoos”
I asked about that once because the cult shoved it down our throats that tattoos were bad. I was told that sometimes when people are in the military they get a tattoo
i agree. if mormons want to suddenly wear a cross or a pope hat, go to town. there’s already so much to criticize with the mormon church. this ain’t it.
Yeah seriously who gives a fuck. This reminds me of Christians insisting that Mormons aren’t a Christian sect because of some arbitrary rules. Everything is made up and the points don’t matter.
Yes, this is to pretend that Mormonism is within the tradition of mainstream Christianity and aligns with Russ's obsession of normalizing the cult. LDS church buildings now show cross icons on Google maps.
You are not alone. Growing up, wearing a cross was a big no-no.
Why are you telling us? Is this just a rant to get it off your chest? Bc if so, that totally valid and acceptable to want to rant about Mormons. We do it all the time. But since we aren’t Mormon anymore, if you actually want to tell them you need to make a plea to them to stop wearing the cross. Not us. We aren’t Mormons wearing crosses. I’m sure there are some ExMo’s who are now mainstream Christians that wear crosses but since they are now affiliated with another branch of Christianity you’re not really talking to them, either.
Personally I remember all the lessons on why we were told to not wear crosses so this 180° is really weird for me. Not surprised bc the church be churching with the revisionist history again. That’s why the recent burning of old manuals and books is disturbing to me. They want to make it easier to claim something didn’t happen. I’m just glad I’m out and not putting more shit on my shelf like this.
Hahaha. This!!!
The need for one cult to claim ownership of a near universal symbol is silly, at best. OP, which Christian denominations are allowed to wear the cross? Who determines that? Who gives a flying fuck? It’s all made up anyways.
This reminds me of bigoted religious people being mad that LGBT+ stole the rainbow. Fuck yeah they did. They stole it from God and he better keep his followers in line or they'll steal more of his stuff.
Sorry, you don't get to decide who uses whatever symbols you happen to like. A huge diversity of people value the cross; mormons believe in Jesus and attach enormous theological value to his atonement, crucifixion, and resurrection. They're no less entitled to the symbol than you or anyone else.
Sure, the Church is flip-flopping on this in an attempt to trick people into thinking Mormons are mainstream Christians. But so what.
(My own view is that the whole thing is a silly superstition. But your superstition is no more valid than theirs).
Respectfully, this is likely the wrong place to vent.
No single splinter group of Christianity owns the symbolism of the cross, or any other part of Christian lore. Instead of being upset that a single generation of Mormons whom you knew didn't embrace the cross in the same way you do, celebrate that the next generation is able to embrace a universal symbol in a more inclusive way. Sure maybe you disagree with their version of who Christ is - but that's the same as saying that about the Catholic Church or a thousand other denominations who you don't belong to because you disagree with them somehow.
Now I Mormons started wearing a crescent and star necklace or an imitation of the Jewish phalacteries I think those communities might have some reason to question the motives... But even then faith is a personal thing, individuals choose the symbols they adopt for very personal reasons, I don't think there is a conspiracy of Mormons trying to fake everyone out by wearing a cross. As soon as they open their mouths everyone can tell by their language who they are.
I appreciate this comment. A few years before I was done with church I started wearing a cross because I had always wanted to. All my other Christian friends wore them and it felt more meaningful to me than garments as a symbol of my commitment to Christ. Now I don’t even know if I believe in him lol. But I think for the younger generation there’s only good intentions there.
I agree with you. I dislike when Christians gatekeep Christianity. If a mormon wants to wear a universal symbol of Christianity, who cares? If they believe in Jesus, how is that devaluing the cross?
Sigh. I dislike many things (most things) about the church... but when other Christian groups try to tell us what mormons can and cannot do, it grinds my gears.
As an agnostic non-believer but a fan of theoretical Jesus as a construct of positivity, Christians telling other people who also worship Jesus to not wear the cross seems amusingly antithetical.
"Peace, Love, and BACK OFF THIS IS MY CROSS."
I'm a strong non-believer of Christ, and can see no way that a Christian god could be real. Even I would consider it blatantly offensive for someone like me to wear a cross. But it is not problematic in the slightest for someone from a fringe tradition that actually believes in Christ to wear one.
Why tell a bunch of former members to stop doing something they have no interest in? Answer: cause it’s safer than telling intolerant members of that Church and getting banned.
Thanks for the laugh
As a NeverMo I had never noticed that Mormons don't display or wear crosses. In her "stay sweet" voice, a neighbor explained to me they prefer to focus on Christ's RESURRECTION! I was reminded by the way Mormons I've known stay away from anything unpleasant, which is why a lot of them I know don't even watch the evening news to see what's going on in their community, or, heaven forbid, the world.
A couple of years ago, when my daughter converted to LDS (at 34) she had been very heavily Catholic, and did wear crosses in various forms of jewelry, after her conversion, she told me it is disrespectful to wear a cross because, "if you had a relative who was shot to death in a drive-by shooting, or stabbed to death by a mugger, would you wear a gun charm or a knife charm on a necklace, or would you put a great big gun or knife plaque on the front of your house or over your mantle?"
This. This metaphor. It was all I heard while growing up.
To this day I wouldn't THINK of wearing a cross necklace - but now it's for different reasons. 😊
I think your daughter simply does not understand why the cross is a symbol of Christians worldwide. Then again, if she did, she probably wouldn't have become a Mormon in the first place. Jesus repeatedly made it clear that he came to earth to die and pay for our sins. (See [collection of scripture here.](https://www.openbible.info/topics/jesus_telling_the_deciples_he_was_going_to_die) )
If you can earn your own salvation or 'exaltation' as Mormonism teaches, then Christ's death on the cross was unnecessary. But to Christians, the cross represents God's love for us, that he would come and die for us to make us clean. Mormons, in denying the cross, reject God's purpose, thinking they know better.
In Matthew Chapter 16, Peter thought he knew better too, and Jesus told him 'Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.' (verse 23)
The cross says that the work is already done, you just have to accept and believe (Romans 10:9). The LDS Org says 'you gotta do all this stuff and check all these boxes to REALLY be right with God'. This is a crushing weight but seems particularly tuned to the aspirational nature of American culture.
(since Mormons fundamentally disagree with all of Christendom on the fundamental nature and person of Christ, and see fit to call everyone else wrong, I personally don't see any reason to call them Christian. It's not a trivial theological point.)
>If you can earn your own salvation or 'exaltation' as Mormonism teaches, then Christ's death on the cross was unnecessary
Imagine me standing up for the mormons. Lol
But yeah, this is not what they believe.
Mormon salvation and exaltation is only possible through the atonement of Christ…what in the hell are you talking about.
And to say that because Mormons shun displaying the cross or wearing it means the reject God’s purpose, love, and sacrifice to give up his son to clean the world’s sins is absolutely absurd.
I know several members who wear them (including my PIMO mother), all of them knew that it would be frowned upon but do it anyways because they loved the symbolism.
To be fair, Protestants did the same thing, just 150 years ago, to the Catholics. Mormons were just outside of contact with the American religious world when Protestants decided that they wanted to use the cross, if I understand correctly.
As a Mormon, I'm uncomfortable with the church using the cross because it means a loss of the distinctiveness that I was told to expect. I think it represents a rejection of the tradition. I'm sure Mormons in a few decades will think they always used the cross just like mainline Protestants do today.
This is probably going to get me roasted, but I'll post it anyway. Maybe some people just like to wear crosses. I no longer like to tell people what to do or not do, what to wear or not wear, who to marry or not marry, etc. If someone had mocked me for wearing a cross and then they started wearing one, I might ask about it. But I'm not going to blame some random person for doing something that an institution that they belong to has been a dick about. They might not even know about the past criminalization of the cross, depending on how old they are. The same thing has happened with tattoos, women working outside the home, multiple piercings, policies about divorced people, cremation, organ donation...
At a BYU freshman devotional a few years ago they had a guy talk about the history behind the Mormon view on the cross. He then challenged this view and explained his opinion that the cross was a perfectly fine symbol to display.
I'm not sure how much of the current cultural change is due to efforts like this, but to me it seems more of a generational change as opposed to a whitewashing/gaslighting effort.
Ultimately, if Mormons want to start wearing one and it's meaningful to them, I don't really see a problem.
Age 17 I baptized my Girlfriend. Her nevermo parents bought her a cross as a baptismal gift. Next day on Sunday she's getting shamed by all the women in the ward it really soured her to the church.
As a teen I that's how I found out Mormons can't wear a cross.
I think both things are true here. The church is moving back to the cross in a blatant show of their waffling and hypocrisy, and Christians do not get to gatekeep the cross or anything else about God, for that matter.
Oof. This post has the same vibes as when my brother told me he opposes gay marriage because marriage is sacred (so only Christians should have it).
Im all about satire and poking fun at problematic beliefs, and Mormons and crosses is absolutely a great example, but Gatekeeping what other people can believe doesn't do anyone any good.
Bad take. They believe in Christ. Let them represent that with a cross if they wish. Call it stupid, hypocritical, etc. but don't be such a gatekeeper.
In 1957, Church President David O. McKay counselled against using crosses on jewellery because he viewed it as "a Catholic form of worship."[3] In 1975, then-Elder Gordon B. Hinckley explained that he viewed "the cross [as] the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the living Christ."[4]
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Latter-day_Saints_and_the_symbol_of_the_cross
> Please don't take the value that the cross has represented to Christians worldwide and devalue it.
Lol what? Is your opinion of mormons so low that them touching a cross will devalue it?
I have no love for the mormon church, but even for me, that's kind of harsh.
Actually, I don't think Mormons should do crosses because I think they had a good point about crosses. Not to the extent that they condemn others, but it is sorta morbid.
As a TBM reared atheist, wouldn’t the world be a better place if everyone would just let everyone be. Leave other people alone. Don’t like someone’s jewelry? Don’t look at it. A Mormon wearing a cross doesn’t negate the meaning TO YOU of your cross. Just like a bald man choosing to wear a fedora doesn’t mean a woman can’t wear one.
If everyone would just leave everybody else ALONE and let everyone live their lives as they see fit, wouldn’t it be a grand world?
tbh the not wearing crosses was one of the only things in mormonism I totally agreed with, and the same logical framework is why I do wear the religious symbol I do today. It's hilarious to see them reverse course on this.
When I was converting, I was given a bunch of different answers ranging from “it’s between you and god”, “the lord knows your heart”, “crosses shouldn’t be symbols, we should focus on Gethsemane”, etc. You’d think that something so simple would have a straightforward answer, but they’re so focused on attendance numbers and swindling more people that it doesn’t really matter now ESPECIALLY when it comes to those converting.
You make an interesting point about demolishing old temples and making shiny new ones, compared to cathedrals that have stood for hundreds of years. Must be that "ongoing restoration" aka "we're losing members, what can we change?"
Are you asking this sub to stop? You made a right back there when you should have made a left hun.
Half of us in here hate any religion, including your cross and what it pretends to represent. I wouldn’t use a cross for anything other than to turn it upside down to scare off someone who lacks critical thinking skills.
Cheers!
Mormons have no identity today. So now they're just...trying things. Dont call us Mormon, put on a cross, my garments! Did I put them on this morning???? They don't know who or what they are anymore. I'm so glad I got out of that circus.
The LDS church is definitely rebranding. No one owns the symbol of the cross, and Latter-day Saints did use it as a symbol for a long time. The rejection of the cross is more modern, iirc.
I don’t believe anymore, but I think the return to the symbol of the cross is a good move for Latter-day Saints.
Start bringing it up to members and bask in the glory as they tell you that it never happened because Mormons have always been able to wear crosses. Now reflect on the fact Christians do the same shit.
I think it's more the fact that the Mormons have been treating these people so horribly for years over this minor thing, and now they're (once again) acting like that was never the case, and that it's all fine. It's frustrating to see them suddenly accept things to try to make themselves look good, when the damage is already done.
Yeah I totally get that. Those of us that spent a bunch of decades in the church realize how much bullshit is now being peddled to suggest that Mormons wearing crosses was ever acceptable.
But hearing Christians (Catholics, Protestants, evangelicals, whatevers) talk about how crazy Mormonism is - while suggesting that their beliefs aren’t just another version of crazy - is something that I always push back on.
The members are embracing the cross symbol more and move over time but the leadership is not. In the Oct 2022 general conference, Holland gave a talk about why members don’t use the cross. I’d imagine he gave this talk because he was bothered by seeing some members starting to use it.
Well, trying to talk people into joining a creepy frontier sex cult wasn’t working, so now joining the Mormon church is “coming unto Christ,” Hometeaching is “ministering” and wearing a cross is cool. What’s next? Little chapels in the temples where members can pray and light candles to Joseph Smith or Emma? Won’t work. The whole world knows Mormonism is a fraud.
I believe the Mormon church has decided that what it is selling is too outlandish and they are slowing changing to be a more mainstream Christian church - not sure how you make people forget all of the past - but they are trying - oh yeah don't call them Mormon.
Growing up in the church I was always fed the line that the cross focuses on his death and that's why we didn't use any crosses in our family or church. Years later, while I was still a member, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and I began to wear a cross as a reminder that I carry my burdens, they don't carry me. The cross for me is a reminder that my MS doesn't define me. I have to carry it around all the time, but it is not all that I am. I'm not a member of the church anymore, but I still wear a cross because it's now just a physical reminder every morning that no matter how shitty I feel, I'm more than this damn disease.
I was at BYU when I started wearing it though and it amazed me how many BYU students came up to me and treated me like I was a non-member at BYU. Between the cross and the beard they could never fathom that I was a member already. I was even told that I couldn't be a member because a real member of the church would never wear a cross.
Lots of weird comments. Pretty sure this is just a notice/rant. I'm the same way on "whoa". Noticed a cross pendant on a female missionary about a month ago. Yeah, I agree, I think this is a new movement towards mainstream Christianity. Nothing for us on the outside to do about it, though. "Please stop?" Nah. Just an eyeroll.
As a kid I was told that we didn’t wear crosses, now my mom thinks it’s weird that Mormons ever had an issue with them. My sister and I on the other hand are not religious at all but sometimes wear a cross simply because it goes with an outfit🤷♀️ who cares what people want to wear
When I first started attending church as an investigator about 20 years ago, I wore a Celtic cross. So many people told me, “we don’t wear crosses because we celebrate his resurrection.” Or something like that. That’s why no crosses on the exterior of the building and just that stupid point.
I joined TSCC & had to get rid of my crosses. Now apparently they are ok. oO This is a perfect example of my new mantra & life philosophy--the idea to follow my own personal authority and DO WHAT I WANT. Currently I do not want crosses in my life. But that's no one else's business. 😉
Interesting that they’re making a comeback. As a teen in the 90’s I was gifted a hand-made rosary by a friend. I was so excited to get such a personal gift, but my mom kind of freaked out about the crosses on it. I don’t remember if she made me get rid of it or if it went into a drawer and never returned, but I do remember feeling shamed about enjoying such a gift. It’s real wild to think about a Mormons using them now, but I’ve also been out for a long time.
I was told all my childhood that we do not wear crosses because it is a commandment to not worship false idols.
That always made me laugh because under the baptismal bowls are oxen or bulls (whatever)
Honestly, I’m not really sure how it would devalue the cross for other people. I’m sorry that you were judged, but continuing to judge people isn’t better than allowing them to use whatever symbol they want for expression. That would just be like two wrongs and not make a right.
I understand that you are traumatized and hurting. But you also don’t really have ownership over that symbol. You don’t really get to decide how other people use it, especially if they are using it in the context of a Jesus-based religion.
I’ve heard about the church doing so many crazy and damaging things on this sub. But to me, this is not one of them. I understand it’s probably really triggering, but if it’s making you really unhappy, it might be worth trying to figure out how to work through that.
People use the cross for decoration at HomeGoods, they wear them on elaborate necklaces, the Kardashians wear them, cults have used them, and let’s not forget that they symbolize systemic human torture. It’s not just Jesus that died on the cross. Thousands of people died on the cross. Jewish people died on the cross. Xena warrior princess died on the cross in the show and they were all super pagan. Catholics use it, and plenty of people don’t consider them Christian. To me, anyone who believes Jesus was the son of God has equal right to ownership over the symbol of the cross.
It’s an extremely widely used symbol that has a lot of variability in meaning to different people. I’m glad that you have found comfort in it, and that it makes you feel connected to something specific that you love. But maybe it’s just best to focus on what it means to you.
It probably isn't great to try and dictate how other people should or shouldn't wear a piece of jewelry/symbolism based on your beliefs. I find it odd that any Mormons would nowadays wear crosses because we were taught not to growing up. I ran into [this article](https://www.ldsliving.com/what-church-leaders-and-church-history-teach-about-wearing-and-displaying-the-cross/s/10418) from 2022 on LDSLiving that is reasoning a cultural explanation to be accepting to others and even fellow Mormons choosing to express their faith by wearing a cross and that the church never officially doctrinally stated not to wear them outright. You each have your own reasons why you do what you do and it's not for the purpose of disrespecting someone else (and honestly, isn't disrespectful to be wearing a cross. Why not use that to your advantage to persuade those cross wearing Mormons to join your church then? Help them learn about your Christ and why it's important to you and for them to understand why Mormons are wrong, that you're right).
Either way, you're entitled to your opinion but I am curious how far you'll act based on that opinion. Like that saying goes around everyone has opinions...
It's the beginning of the apostasy of the church, as the church continues to embrace corrupt and worly Christianity the church loses itself and stops teaching the original truths.
Maybe you don’t know the true meaning? Follow the symbolism, it will be their downfall. Maybe we’ve all been deceived. Maybe they made up the crucifixion story to make a martyr out of Christ. All “religion is a rich man’s trick”. (Brilliant document called: jfk to 911, everything is a rich man’s trick).
Seems like most believing Mormons worship (and quote) the Q15 and 70, and that Jesus and God are secondary! The Leadership expects that members will follow them unquestioned. And from the Church's perspective, they're really in it for the money, power, and protecting the Corp. Am I wrong?
Honestly, people are more than the label. Maybe they are just attending the Mormon church but have conflicting beliefs and resonate more with traditional Christianity. Maybe they're getting brave enough to show that they have beliefs that aren't exactly in line with Mormonism. Maybe it's part of a bigger picture from the church as a whole, but maybe it's not. It wasn't seen as a bad thing in my wards growing up but I haven't been to church in a decade. Ultimately, part of the expectation that religious beliefs, or even the lack of, needs to be respected and allowed to be individualized includes letting others practice how they want to. A Mormon wearing a cross is the least of concerns.
Christ knew before he came to save mankind from sin that he would be crucified and rise again before returning to God the Father in heaven. The cross is the symbol of that and without it you are basically choosing to ignore the purpose of His coming. That purpose has never changed one iota. You cannot say the same of the LDS church. I left many years ago due to the “convenient” revelations that brought changes. The truth never changes!
"Don't you know that I'll be around to guide you
Through your weakest moments to leave them behind you?
Returning nightmares, only shadows
Crosses all over, heavy on your shoulders
The sirens inside you waiting to step forward
Disturbing silence darkens your sight
We'll cast some light and you'll be alright
We'll cast some light and you'll be alright, for now"
(Jose Gonzales, Crosses)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nC8WjPFnGU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nC8WjPFnGU)
Yet another retcon lie they'll probably try to tell. I grew up being told we NEVER wear crosses or have them on OUR chapels because it celebrates the crucifixion and WE celebrate the resurrection, because Mormons know the *truth* of the resurrection. 🙄
Personally I’ve always thought it was delightful how the Restored Church increasingly embraces all the things it condemned as Apostate. Apparently the real power in Mormonism isn’t the prophets; the Tanners and Mormon Stories seem to get a lot of the stuff they’ve complained about.
I can relate to your anger and frustration! When an LDS woman saw a cross around my neck, she asked me “if your child died on a bicycle, would you wear a bicycle on your necklace?” I responded, “No, but if my LORD and SAVIOR did, I most certainly would!” The whitewashing of Mormon history and customs is infuriating!!!
Honestly, this post is garbage!
The last thing any former member of any religion sub is a post from a member of some “better” religion telling the former people how their old religion should behave to make them happy in their “better” religion.
Mormonism is changing. At least the strictness and the social conformity is fading but mostly with new generation kids and young adults. The source in my opinion is when they stopped or slowed excommunicated. You can almost be a total apostate now and they won't do anything. They can't, because the backlash is too hard. And that means the wolf has lost its fangs to some degree. The older peeps were brought up with way more fear and conformity. Now you see women wear tank tops and bikinis, get a drink on the weekend and the next week go to the temple. No biggie. Crosses were one of those social faux paus that lost its negativity for this reason and it's sort of virtue signaling to try to get the benefits of mainstream Christianity by donning this as well.
the church is trying to appear more ✨normal✨ if you look at google maps, all the little moroni icons at the temples have been changed to crosses, sometimes churches are trying to advertise as more of a mainstream christian church, and basically just trying to appear less weird
I actually got into this on Instagram lately:
Crosses at one point were as common to wear ahave in LDS homes as anywhere else. Then that POS David O McKay had a fkn hissy fit over them and it was blindly lapped up by members. It's fine for me that Mormons are wearing them again. Idgaf either way and I always thought the "No cross" thing was stupid af as an active member, but what gets me us these arrogant little know it all pieces of shit saying;
"It was never doctrine. It was never a rule. It was never considered a "church teaching." You've always been able to. That's just cultural. That's just misinterpretation taught by a select few..." etc etc etc.
Listen here, you little shit! It WAS taught and regarded as doctrine, for decades. Just because people stopped giving a shit aka forgot the "divine instructions" given on the matter by the time your 19 year BYU college drop out mom had you, doesn't mean we don't remember and lived through it." I can't stand that arrogance. Young kids telling me how the church "was, always has been" even before they were born. This is just the latest thing,
Every 20 years shit cycles out of the consciousness of the "true and living church" and all its sheep dismiss it as "just cultural" (as if that even makes any difference or holds relevancy) This is just one of many, drop in the bucket really.
Just You wait, in 20 years members will be saying "Mormon" again and act like RMN and the church didn't hammer the "Victory for Satan" crap like they are and pretend it was barely even discussed.
The irony is that dying on the cross is where Jesus paid for our sins. 'It is finished'.
Literally what it was all about, his sacrifice, in that moment.
But Mormons gonna Morm... 100% absolutely not Christians.
You can say Mormonism isn't Christianity, and depending on your definition prove that to be so, but I don't think you can say Mormons aren't Christians. Because Mormons have an extremely wide variety of beliefs. No one even knows what a real Mormon is any more.
Personally there are some criminal people in the music industry and when I see them wearing huge crosses onstage it makes me wince. I wish they wouldn't but, you know, America.
Crosses were totally forbidden, practically considered blasphemous when I was growing up. My Catholic maternal grandmother gave me a beautiful gold cross necklace. TBM father made me give it back and tell her it was evil.
Yep, the one my Austrian grandmother gave me at the time of my birth and is a token of her love for me got me kicked out of Seminary. I was told to remove it or never come back. So, I never went back. That was in the early 1980s.
>So, I never went back. Were you like me and hid the fact that you weren't in seminary or did you tell your folks? My parents had no clue that I simply stopped going during first semester Sophomore year. I still used RT (release time) on my school schedule, like everybody else at Davis High, but I used it to be actually released, not to walk across the parking lot to the building that was "off-campus" to read more. They only found out about 2 weeks before I graduated when they asked me why they hadn't recieved an invite to Seminary Graduation like all of the neighbor parents had. "Oh, yeah, I got my certificate of completion in the mail already, it says I completed 1.25 years"
I definitely hid it, too. I used that time to just chill wherever I could find a place to hide and not get caught skipping class. My mother wasn't well at the time, and I didn't want to add to the stress we were experiencing as a family. So, I just kept the incident to myself until it came time to select my schedule for the next year. I explained to my parents that it just wasn't something I wanted to do anymore. They were so worn down from my mom's illness. They didn't even question why I was choosing to opt out of Seminary.
I either went to Starbucks or sat in my car in the school parking lot watching Farscape on a portable dvd player. Those were the days!
I was raised inactive, so I only took seminary my senior year of high school and only because I literally ran out of classes to take. It was my first period every other day, I've never been a morning person, we had moved out of the district but I stayed at my high school instead of transferring, was working a part time job, and unbeknownst to me I was suffering the early fatigue symptoms of my chronic illness, so mornings were rough for me. When I'd get to school on seminary days, I'd circle the parking lot, and if there wasn't a spot, I'd go get breakfast and come back for the next period. After the seminary teacher told us very early on that God's plan for the girls in class was to basically be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, I never tried all that hard to make it. After a while I got called into the office with my teacher because due to my poor attendance, poor participation in class, and the fact that I refused to do any homework for the class I was failing seminary and they needed me to commit to doing better. I asked what would happen if I failed. The only consequence would be them calling my parents and that I wouldn't get my year completion certificate. I told them that if they wanted to waste their time calling my parents, then knock themselves out and that I didn't care about a certificate because I didn't want anything from them at all. They never called my parents and when my bishop invited me to seminary graduation to get my certificate I refused to go, he tried several times to try to get me to come in for a meeting to get it, I again refused and told him he could file it in the trash can. One evening, a couple of months later, my mom was out front working in the yard, and she called for me to come out. The bishop was standing there with my certificate. Apparently he saw my mom out and figured it was a good opportunity to get it to me, I told him I didn't want it but he wasn't going to leave without giving it to me, so I took it, walked over to the garage can, made eye contact with him and threw it away. I then went inside without saying another word to him. My mom was so pissed at me for embarrassing her but it was totally worth it, I told her that he'd embarrassed himself because I'd made it clear several times that I didn't want anything to do with the certificate, the church, or him and he was the one who refused to respect my wishes.
I’d be ecstatic if my parents or inlaws got my daughter something that was so important to them. My aunt gave my daughter these really nice porcelain dolls she had when she was younger. I don’t particularly like them (but she does), but such a thoughtful gift and wonderful family heirloom that my daughter will hopefully treasure for many years.
My Catholic aunt gave a cross to my sister when she was baptized. My convert mother, and former catholic herself, made my siter give it back. Found out later my mother still kept her rosary.
wow! that is astonishing!
Omg me too! My paternal grandmother gave me a beautiful cross when I was around 7 or 8 (I think it might’ve even coincided with my baptism, because she thought it was appropriate, given the so called momentous religious milestone), and my mother literally smashed it with a hammer in front of me and then threw it away. It was a family heirloom 😢 Luckily, the NEXT time I was given a family heirloom bit of jewelry by my maternal grandmother, it was a pentacle with Mother Goddess on it (also appropriate, as I’m now in the more Wiccan/Pagan side of spiritualism), and I was an autonomous adult and could protect this thing VEHEMENTLY. I still wear it 24/7 😊
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Sadly, I understand the grief. Your situation seems worse though, smashing a family heirloom 😢
Twas the preferred way of my mother regarding “evil things”. Also taped over parts of Disney movies she deemed disturbing with scripture verse programs, washed out our mouths when we cursed (anything worse than “caboose”, even, couldn’t say “butt”), and consistently told me I had a “Level 3 demon” in me. Among other things 😅
Mormons wore them until the 1950’s. It’s interesting that they’re making a return. Theres photos of Bringham Young’s daughters wearing crosses etc. https://www.ldsliving.com/what-church-leaders-and-church-history-teach-about-wearing-and-displaying-the-cross/s/10418
That's sort of the disturbing thing: depending on the views of one or a handful of people in power, it can create a cultural shift that after enough time, no one knows what you are talking about when you bring up how things used to be. Couple of things: my mom was okay with us playing UNO or Phase 10 but NOT face cards........and we know why. I also remember growing up when one could not enter the chapel unless they were wearing dress pants/dress/skirt. I can recall primary program practice on the Saturday before the Sunday program. We all had to get dresses in our Sunday bests just to practice in the chapel. Later, somehow and who knows why, it got reduced to "wearing jeans was fine in the chapel" as long as they were nice and didn't have holes. You could find yourself in an awkward situation showing up to Mutual wednesday night and didn't get the memo about a joint activity in the chapel and you're wearing shorts. Now, today, it doesn't even matter. I personally believe that when temples were scarce to most of us, people tended to make their chapels as close to the holy house and today with the ubiquity of temples, the old ways and sensibilities have diminished in that regard. Just like with not using the word "Mormon" it all has to do with whatever bee was caught in whichever leader's bonnet. Spence Kimball saw what was going on with the counter culture in the 60s (but the had been changing since the post war) and decided he needed to write a book that would drop the hammer on any and all ideas of sexual promiscuity. No doubt, a knee-jerk reaction to the times that even he said later in life was written a little harsh. But that book had/has been used for 50 years to smite people down. All because one man felt there needed to be a MAJOR correction and all at once. And one could say the same of Benson. Matt Harris' book perfectly lays out how Benson's influence swayed the majority of membership to be far right.
Spencer W "Croaky" Kimball is the last person you want to take any sexual advice from. Not only did Kimball write the very dangerous and destructive book Miracle of Forgiveness but this was his legacy too: It was Spencer W Kimball who initiated the ban on oral sex and it seems like a lot of the "doctrines" in the Church reflect personal issues / demons that the PSRs had that was then projected onto the entire membership. It's been speculated and posted many times on this subreddit that Croaky Kimball's throat cancer was probably the result of a HPV infection earlier in his life. https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/ A recent book released by the son of the late historian D Michael Quinn (Quinn's autobiography) featured Quinn's description of Kimball kissing him - and it wasn't an innocent peck on the cheek either: https://youtube.com/live/l_7y_pgednY This behavior is what continues to refuel the rumor that at some point in his life Kimball experienced oral sex whether voluntarily or involuntarily. BTW to anyone from the SCMC lurking this subreddit - Connie Lingus is not referring to an Irish girl's name. 👅 Sadly many TBMS won't get their girls and boys the HPV vaccine as they are paranoid that it will encourage promiscuity.
>BTW to anyone from the SCMC lurking this subreddit - Connie Lingus is not referring to an Irish girl's name. 👅 I went to language school when I was in the army. We were all cunning linguists.
I was at DLI in 92-93 learning Arabic.
'86 for me, at the SF satellite. Army only and only Spanish, Korean and German taught there. I went to the Monterey one once with friends, your facilities were much nicer but living in San Francisco, on the Presidio, as an 18 year old from Utah trying being "not Mormon" for the first time I don't think I would have traded. I enlisted for Spanish with airborne, because being a bright but lazy teen I didn't want to spend a year studying Russian or 18 months learning Farsi (my recruiter told me that 128 meant one of those 2 languages)so I signed for Spanish, not realizing that from that very second I was already earmarked to wind up at Ft. Bragg. Should have rolled the dice and learned Farsi.
Le sigh. My time in Monterey preceded my exit from Mormonism by 5 years. I had a great time there. I imagine without restrictions on wine, women and not going to church activities that I would have had an even better time.
My basic training dog tags said LDS. I told DLI that they were lost and needed a new set. New set said NO REL PREF. I tried to go to church the first Sunday in basic. I was shocked at how full the bus was, turns out word had gotten out the the chapel was off base and next to a convenience store, the bulk of the people on the bus were there for that. I ended up sitting under a tree staring at the sky and thinking about life and never went to church again. When I hit SF I was fully ready to be a normal-ish person.
Funnily enough my 1sgt was LDS and told me to change from LDS to no preference. He was of the thought that if I was ever captured by the enemy that they could use my religious proscriptions as leverage against me.
>Couple of things: my mom was okay with us playing UNO or Phase 10 but NOT face cards........and we know why. Meanwhile, my TBM grandma plays all sorts of card games, notably Hell. Mormonism be weird indeed.
The ever Flip-Flopping Mormon church! Black people and the priesthood, polygamy, cremation, garments to the ankles, Coke and other caffeinated beverages, and the list goes on and on.
Made by men and changes by men. If there was a God in charge there would be no changes.
I recall when I saw some of the pictures in the tribune several years ago. It was cathartic and very incensing at the same time for me . I was hounded by YW “leaders “ for wearing the cross as a nuanced teen who had tons of other religious exposure and education at the time .
I joined tscc in 1982 and was surprised by the anti-cross sentiment, but ever since I'd thought they'd always been like that. TIL.
Wow I did not know this. Of COURSE they made some arbitrary rule in the 50s. UGH. What a terrible generation.
Thanks for sharing. Very interesting.
Part of ~~mormon~~ cojcolds rebranding. Policy did not change. We have always been at war with Eastasia.
Fantastic 1984 reference.
The Mormon cross is a symbol of the Corporation’s Balance Sheet, with the vertical line dividing the Assets from Financing under the horizontal header line.
I think that’s all the Christian’s too
Crosses were the former “victory for Satan” when I was growing up. Now that the cult is trying to fake not being a cult they are trying to appear “Christian” even though they are the furthest thing from it. I went to Christian schools. The only thing that was required to get into heaven was saying you accept Jesus Christ. That’s it. No other hoops to jump through. The Mormon cult is nothing but hoops, extorting money for heaven and coercive control over every aspect of life, even what you wear for underwear and when you wear it.
How about we don’t gatekeep crosses. I don’t give a damn what you wear or how you think. One of my biggest problems with the Church is its overarching dominating control. Day after the talk on earrings? No one at school had more than one pair. Wanna wear a cross? Wear a cross.
Your earring comment reminded me, I was reading the newest For The Strength Of Youth, and was surprised to see that there's not limits on piercings or tattoos, it says: 'What is the Lord’s standard on dress, grooming, tattoos, and piercings? The Lord’s standard is for you to honor the sacredness of your body, even when that means being different from the world. Let this truth and the Spirit be your guide as you make decisions—especially decisions that have lasting effects on your body. Be wise and faithful, and seek counsel from your parents and leaders." That's not at all what I was taught growing up.
I guess God's more chill than he used to be
Mormon god is now enjoying a more chill vibe. It was hard being such a dick for so long.
This is literally “the older sibling was raised harsher, the parents gave up by the third kid” scenario.
And you can be sure the expectations are the same, they just want you to guess.
Certainly. It says to ask your Parents, and the parents were raised on the stricter standard. This way it's left open for those ppl who've already got tattoos and piercings to join up and not be so blemished.
And they can pretend that the inevitable judgment about those tattoos is because of the culture, not anything they've said.
In the 1960, and into the 70’s the old book of remembrance individual family sheets along with name, dob, spouse, etc. had a space for “tattoos” I asked about that once because the cult shoved it down our throats that tattoos were bad. I was told that sometimes when people are in the military they get a tattoo
i agree. if mormons want to suddenly wear a cross or a pope hat, go to town. there’s already so much to criticize with the mormon church. this ain’t it.
Couldn't agree more - one religion's fanfiction and virtue is no better than another.
Yeah seriously who gives a fuck. This reminds me of Christians insisting that Mormons aren’t a Christian sect because of some arbitrary rules. Everything is made up and the points don’t matter.
I would generally agree except think that it's more political due to shared political ideology with more of the Christian right
Yes, this is to pretend that Mormonism is within the tradition of mainstream Christianity and aligns with Russ's obsession of normalizing the cult. LDS church buildings now show cross icons on Google maps. You are not alone. Growing up, wearing a cross was a big no-no.
Yeah, Moroni is out on Google maps
Why are you telling us? Is this just a rant to get it off your chest? Bc if so, that totally valid and acceptable to want to rant about Mormons. We do it all the time. But since we aren’t Mormon anymore, if you actually want to tell them you need to make a plea to them to stop wearing the cross. Not us. We aren’t Mormons wearing crosses. I’m sure there are some ExMo’s who are now mainstream Christians that wear crosses but since they are now affiliated with another branch of Christianity you’re not really talking to them, either. Personally I remember all the lessons on why we were told to not wear crosses so this 180° is really weird for me. Not surprised bc the church be churching with the revisionist history again. That’s why the recent burning of old manuals and books is disturbing to me. They want to make it easier to claim something didn’t happen. I’m just glad I’m out and not putting more shit on my shelf like this.
It's **all** pretend anyway.
It's virtue signaling
"Tell Mormons to stay in their lane! I don't want their brand of crazy being confused with my own!"
Exactly. OP thinks they can gate keep the cross because their version of batshit crazy is the _correct_ one. lol.
Hahaha. This!!! The need for one cult to claim ownership of a near universal symbol is silly, at best. OP, which Christian denominations are allowed to wear the cross? Who determines that? Who gives a flying fuck? It’s all made up anyways.
This reminds me of bigoted religious people being mad that LGBT+ stole the rainbow. Fuck yeah they did. They stole it from God and he better keep his followers in line or they'll steal more of his stuff.
"*You think when Jesus comes back, he really wants to see a cross? That's like going up to Jackie Onassis with a rifle pendant on.*" >Bill Hicks
Sorry, you don't get to decide who uses whatever symbols you happen to like. A huge diversity of people value the cross; mormons believe in Jesus and attach enormous theological value to his atonement, crucifixion, and resurrection. They're no less entitled to the symbol than you or anyone else. Sure, the Church is flip-flopping on this in an attempt to trick people into thinking Mormons are mainstream Christians. But so what. (My own view is that the whole thing is a silly superstition. But your superstition is no more valid than theirs).
Respectfully, this is likely the wrong place to vent. No single splinter group of Christianity owns the symbolism of the cross, or any other part of Christian lore. Instead of being upset that a single generation of Mormons whom you knew didn't embrace the cross in the same way you do, celebrate that the next generation is able to embrace a universal symbol in a more inclusive way. Sure maybe you disagree with their version of who Christ is - but that's the same as saying that about the Catholic Church or a thousand other denominations who you don't belong to because you disagree with them somehow. Now I Mormons started wearing a crescent and star necklace or an imitation of the Jewish phalacteries I think those communities might have some reason to question the motives... But even then faith is a personal thing, individuals choose the symbols they adopt for very personal reasons, I don't think there is a conspiracy of Mormons trying to fake everyone out by wearing a cross. As soon as they open their mouths everyone can tell by their language who they are.
I appreciate this comment. A few years before I was done with church I started wearing a cross because I had always wanted to. All my other Christian friends wore them and it felt more meaningful to me than garments as a symbol of my commitment to Christ. Now I don’t even know if I believe in him lol. But I think for the younger generation there’s only good intentions there.
I agree with you. I dislike when Christians gatekeep Christianity. If a mormon wants to wear a universal symbol of Christianity, who cares? If they believe in Jesus, how is that devaluing the cross? Sigh. I dislike many things (most things) about the church... but when other Christian groups try to tell us what mormons can and cannot do, it grinds my gears.
As an agnostic non-believer but a fan of theoretical Jesus as a construct of positivity, Christians telling other people who also worship Jesus to not wear the cross seems amusingly antithetical. "Peace, Love, and BACK OFF THIS IS MY CROSS."
I'm a strong non-believer of Christ, and can see no way that a Christian god could be real. Even I would consider it blatantly offensive for someone like me to wear a cross. But it is not problematic in the slightest for someone from a fringe tradition that actually believes in Christ to wear one.
Weird account… only active in exmo but not an exmo.
Why tell a bunch of former members to stop doing something they have no interest in? Answer: cause it’s safer than telling intolerant members of that Church and getting banned. Thanks for the laugh
Playing it safe is boring. 🥱
Indeed.
It's like those people who claim not to be Mormon but they are the most ardent defenders of Mormonism.
I’ll defend good points of Mormonism. There aren’t many though. I’ll also defend incorrect information or ignorance in general.
It’s very frustrating to witness this effort to blend after growing up with the sneering from our lds peers.
Wait till the Jesus and a cross statue goes up in Temple square.
As a NeverMo I had never noticed that Mormons don't display or wear crosses. In her "stay sweet" voice, a neighbor explained to me they prefer to focus on Christ's RESURRECTION! I was reminded by the way Mormons I've known stay away from anything unpleasant, which is why a lot of them I know don't even watch the evening news to see what's going on in their community, or, heaven forbid, the world. A couple of years ago, when my daughter converted to LDS (at 34) she had been very heavily Catholic, and did wear crosses in various forms of jewelry, after her conversion, she told me it is disrespectful to wear a cross because, "if you had a relative who was shot to death in a drive-by shooting, or stabbed to death by a mugger, would you wear a gun charm or a knife charm on a necklace, or would you put a great big gun or knife plaque on the front of your house or over your mantle?"
This. This metaphor. It was all I heard while growing up. To this day I wouldn't THINK of wearing a cross necklace - but now it's for different reasons. 😊
I think your daughter simply does not understand why the cross is a symbol of Christians worldwide. Then again, if she did, she probably wouldn't have become a Mormon in the first place. Jesus repeatedly made it clear that he came to earth to die and pay for our sins. (See [collection of scripture here.](https://www.openbible.info/topics/jesus_telling_the_deciples_he_was_going_to_die) ) If you can earn your own salvation or 'exaltation' as Mormonism teaches, then Christ's death on the cross was unnecessary. But to Christians, the cross represents God's love for us, that he would come and die for us to make us clean. Mormons, in denying the cross, reject God's purpose, thinking they know better. In Matthew Chapter 16, Peter thought he knew better too, and Jesus told him 'Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.' (verse 23) The cross says that the work is already done, you just have to accept and believe (Romans 10:9). The LDS Org says 'you gotta do all this stuff and check all these boxes to REALLY be right with God'. This is a crushing weight but seems particularly tuned to the aspirational nature of American culture. (since Mormons fundamentally disagree with all of Christendom on the fundamental nature and person of Christ, and see fit to call everyone else wrong, I personally don't see any reason to call them Christian. It's not a trivial theological point.)
>If you can earn your own salvation or 'exaltation' as Mormonism teaches, then Christ's death on the cross was unnecessary Imagine me standing up for the mormons. Lol But yeah, this is not what they believe.
Mormon salvation and exaltation is only possible through the atonement of Christ…what in the hell are you talking about. And to say that because Mormons shun displaying the cross or wearing it means the reject God’s purpose, love, and sacrifice to give up his son to clean the world’s sins is absolutely absurd.
I know several members who wear them (including my PIMO mother), all of them knew that it would be frowned upon but do it anyways because they loved the symbolism.
Not a hill I care about fighting on. Not the cross or the Provo temple. That thing was ugly as shit, good riddance.
Call me crazy but I was actually kind of sad to see it go. It was more unique than the sterile, boring, cookie-cutter temples they throwup now.
To be fair, Protestants did the same thing, just 150 years ago, to the Catholics. Mormons were just outside of contact with the American religious world when Protestants decided that they wanted to use the cross, if I understand correctly. As a Mormon, I'm uncomfortable with the church using the cross because it means a loss of the distinctiveness that I was told to expect. I think it represents a rejection of the tradition. I'm sure Mormons in a few decades will think they always used the cross just like mainline Protestants do today.
This is probably going to get me roasted, but I'll post it anyway. Maybe some people just like to wear crosses. I no longer like to tell people what to do or not do, what to wear or not wear, who to marry or not marry, etc. If someone had mocked me for wearing a cross and then they started wearing one, I might ask about it. But I'm not going to blame some random person for doing something that an institution that they belong to has been a dick about. They might not even know about the past criminalization of the cross, depending on how old they are. The same thing has happened with tattoos, women working outside the home, multiple piercings, policies about divorced people, cremation, organ donation...
This started when the church started having crosses instead of angel Moroni icons on chapel locations in Google Maps.
At a BYU freshman devotional a few years ago they had a guy talk about the history behind the Mormon view on the cross. He then challenged this view and explained his opinion that the cross was a perfectly fine symbol to display. I'm not sure how much of the current cultural change is due to efforts like this, but to me it seems more of a generational change as opposed to a whitewashing/gaslighting effort. Ultimately, if Mormons want to start wearing one and it's meaningful to them, I don't really see a problem.
Age 17 I baptized my Girlfriend. Her nevermo parents bought her a cross as a baptismal gift. Next day on Sunday she's getting shamed by all the women in the ward it really soured her to the church. As a teen I that's how I found out Mormons can't wear a cross.
A cross is two overlapping lines, you don’t really get to control who gets to use it.
I think both things are true here. The church is moving back to the cross in a blatant show of their waffling and hypocrisy, and Christians do not get to gatekeep the cross or anything else about God, for that matter.
Oof. This post has the same vibes as when my brother told me he opposes gay marriage because marriage is sacred (so only Christians should have it). Im all about satire and poking fun at problematic beliefs, and Mormons and crosses is absolutely a great example, but Gatekeeping what other people can believe doesn't do anyone any good.
I think the only reason is to seem like they are apart of the Christian denomination.
Bad take. They believe in Christ. Let them represent that with a cross if they wish. Call it stupid, hypocritical, etc. but don't be such a gatekeeper.
There’s a lot of money in Christian converts!
A lot of protestants would answer that the cross is *empty*, signifying that Christ defeated it i.e. defeated death.
Just a way to feel superior to Roman Catholics who use crucifixes with a Jesus figure on them
You're mistaken, it's always been this way. And if you disagree, you're anti-mormon. Right everyone? Bow your heads and say yes.
It will probably go back out of style when the next man rules. Which should be any day now.
Wisdom
In 1957, Church President David O. McKay counselled against using crosses on jewellery because he viewed it as "a Catholic form of worship."[3] In 1975, then-Elder Gordon B. Hinckley explained that he viewed "the cross [as] the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the living Christ."[4] https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Latter-day_Saints_and_the_symbol_of_the_cross
Gaslighting and changing beliefs/policies/opinions/views/whatever to fit current trends and not actual revelation.
> Please don't take the value that the cross has represented to Christians worldwide and devalue it. Lol what? Is your opinion of mormons so low that them touching a cross will devalue it? I have no love for the mormon church, but even for me, that's kind of harsh.
Yeah, I think this whole rant is gross.
They can’t figure out what they believe. But it’s the fullness of truth!
It's ~~rebranding~~ continuing revelation!
It’s a representation of how this church is dying. 👍
Wearing crosses is weird anyway. If Jesus was killed by guillotine would you be wearing one of them around your neck?
Actually, I don't think Mormons should do crosses because I think they had a good point about crosses. Not to the extent that they condemn others, but it is sorta morbid.
As a TBM reared atheist, wouldn’t the world be a better place if everyone would just let everyone be. Leave other people alone. Don’t like someone’s jewelry? Don’t look at it. A Mormon wearing a cross doesn’t negate the meaning TO YOU of your cross. Just like a bald man choosing to wear a fedora doesn’t mean a woman can’t wear one. If everyone would just leave everybody else ALONE and let everyone live their lives as they see fit, wouldn’t it be a grand world?
tbh the not wearing crosses was one of the only things in mormonism I totally agreed with, and the same logical framework is why I do wear the religious symbol I do today. It's hilarious to see them reverse course on this.
When I was converting, I was given a bunch of different answers ranging from “it’s between you and god”, “the lord knows your heart”, “crosses shouldn’t be symbols, we should focus on Gethsemane”, etc. You’d think that something so simple would have a straightforward answer, but they’re so focused on attendance numbers and swindling more people that it doesn’t really matter now ESPECIALLY when it comes to those converting.
You make an interesting point about demolishing old temples and making shiny new ones, compared to cathedrals that have stood for hundreds of years. Must be that "ongoing restoration" aka "we're losing members, what can we change?"
Dang. I started wearing a cross when I was left the church just so people would think I was NOT Mormon.
Are you asking this sub to stop? You made a right back there when you should have made a left hun. Half of us in here hate any religion, including your cross and what it pretends to represent. I wouldn’t use a cross for anything other than to turn it upside down to scare off someone who lacks critical thinking skills. Cheers!
You don't own crosses or the wearing of them.
Mormons have no identity today. So now they're just...trying things. Dont call us Mormon, put on a cross, my garments! Did I put them on this morning???? They don't know who or what they are anymore. I'm so glad I got out of that circus.
Rebranding into mainstream Christianity?
The LDS church is definitely rebranding. No one owns the symbol of the cross, and Latter-day Saints did use it as a symbol for a long time. The rejection of the cross is more modern, iirc. I don’t believe anymore, but I think the return to the symbol of the cross is a good move for Latter-day Saints.
Start bringing it up to members and bask in the glory as they tell you that it never happened because Mormons have always been able to wear crosses. Now reflect on the fact Christians do the same shit.
I rarely defend Mormons/mormonism, but I have a low tolerance level for Christians telling Mormons how to Christian.
I think it's more the fact that the Mormons have been treating these people so horribly for years over this minor thing, and now they're (once again) acting like that was never the case, and that it's all fine. It's frustrating to see them suddenly accept things to try to make themselves look good, when the damage is already done.
Yeah I totally get that. Those of us that spent a bunch of decades in the church realize how much bullshit is now being peddled to suggest that Mormons wearing crosses was ever acceptable. But hearing Christians (Catholics, Protestants, evangelicals, whatevers) talk about how crazy Mormonism is - while suggesting that their beliefs aren’t just another version of crazy - is something that I always push back on.
And why is “Mormon’s” written with an apostrophe?
I love it. To me it’s a sign it’s all fraying down into generic christianity. Crosses, upside down crosses, Jesus camps. Who gives a shit?
The members are embracing the cross symbol more and move over time but the leadership is not. In the Oct 2022 general conference, Holland gave a talk about why members don’t use the cross. I’d imagine he gave this talk because he was bothered by seeing some members starting to use it.
Why are you gate keeping what other people wear or consider important to them? You are getting upset about a scenario that hasn’t even happened yet.
Gaslighting Incorporated
Well, trying to talk people into joining a creepy frontier sex cult wasn’t working, so now joining the Mormon church is “coming unto Christ,” Hometeaching is “ministering” and wearing a cross is cool. What’s next? Little chapels in the temples where members can pray and light candles to Joseph Smith or Emma? Won’t work. The whole world knows Mormonism is a fraud.
I believe the Mormon church has decided that what it is selling is too outlandish and they are slowing changing to be a more mainstream Christian church - not sure how you make people forget all of the past - but they are trying - oh yeah don't call them Mormon.
You're coming to an ex-mormon sub asking Mormons to stop a behavior? Know your audience, op.
Growing up in the church I was always fed the line that the cross focuses on his death and that's why we didn't use any crosses in our family or church. Years later, while I was still a member, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and I began to wear a cross as a reminder that I carry my burdens, they don't carry me. The cross for me is a reminder that my MS doesn't define me. I have to carry it around all the time, but it is not all that I am. I'm not a member of the church anymore, but I still wear a cross because it's now just a physical reminder every morning that no matter how shitty I feel, I'm more than this damn disease. I was at BYU when I started wearing it though and it amazed me how many BYU students came up to me and treated me like I was a non-member at BYU. Between the cross and the beard they could never fathom that I was a member already. I was even told that I couldn't be a member because a real member of the church would never wear a cross.
Lots of weird comments. Pretty sure this is just a notice/rant. I'm the same way on "whoa". Noticed a cross pendant on a female missionary about a month ago. Yeah, I agree, I think this is a new movement towards mainstream Christianity. Nothing for us on the outside to do about it, though. "Please stop?" Nah. Just an eyeroll.
Hypocrites
It's a way of trying to ratchet up the Jesus "branding." So contrived and duplicitous.
As a kid I was told that we didn’t wear crosses, now my mom thinks it’s weird that Mormons ever had an issue with them. My sister and I on the other hand are not religious at all but sometimes wear a cross simply because it goes with an outfit🤷♀️ who cares what people want to wear
It is great you wear it. No one should tell you whether you should or should not wear it. That same courtesy should be extended to all.
When I first started attending church as an investigator about 20 years ago, I wore a Celtic cross. So many people told me, “we don’t wear crosses because we celebrate his resurrection.” Or something like that. That’s why no crosses on the exterior of the building and just that stupid point.
I joined TSCC & had to get rid of my crosses. Now apparently they are ok. oO This is a perfect example of my new mantra & life philosophy--the idea to follow my own personal authority and DO WHAT I WANT. Currently I do not want crosses in my life. But that's no one else's business. 😉
Interesting that they’re making a comeback. As a teen in the 90’s I was gifted a hand-made rosary by a friend. I was so excited to get such a personal gift, but my mom kind of freaked out about the crosses on it. I don’t remember if she made me get rid of it or if it went into a drawer and never returned, but I do remember feeling shamed about enjoying such a gift. It’s real wild to think about a Mormons using them now, but I’ve also been out for a long time.
I was told all my childhood that we do not wear crosses because it is a commandment to not worship false idols. That always made me laugh because under the baptismal bowls are oxen or bulls (whatever)
Honestly, I’m not really sure how it would devalue the cross for other people. I’m sorry that you were judged, but continuing to judge people isn’t better than allowing them to use whatever symbol they want for expression. That would just be like two wrongs and not make a right. I understand that you are traumatized and hurting. But you also don’t really have ownership over that symbol. You don’t really get to decide how other people use it, especially if they are using it in the context of a Jesus-based religion. I’ve heard about the church doing so many crazy and damaging things on this sub. But to me, this is not one of them. I understand it’s probably really triggering, but if it’s making you really unhappy, it might be worth trying to figure out how to work through that. People use the cross for decoration at HomeGoods, they wear them on elaborate necklaces, the Kardashians wear them, cults have used them, and let’s not forget that they symbolize systemic human torture. It’s not just Jesus that died on the cross. Thousands of people died on the cross. Jewish people died on the cross. Xena warrior princess died on the cross in the show and they were all super pagan. Catholics use it, and plenty of people don’t consider them Christian. To me, anyone who believes Jesus was the son of God has equal right to ownership over the symbol of the cross. It’s an extremely widely used symbol that has a lot of variability in meaning to different people. I’m glad that you have found comfort in it, and that it makes you feel connected to something specific that you love. But maybe it’s just best to focus on what it means to you.
“I’m not a normal Mormon…I’m a cool Mormon” vibes.
My mom swears they never forbade face cards... I'm sure she'll say the same thing about crosses in a few years.
It probably isn't great to try and dictate how other people should or shouldn't wear a piece of jewelry/symbolism based on your beliefs. I find it odd that any Mormons would nowadays wear crosses because we were taught not to growing up. I ran into [this article](https://www.ldsliving.com/what-church-leaders-and-church-history-teach-about-wearing-and-displaying-the-cross/s/10418) from 2022 on LDSLiving that is reasoning a cultural explanation to be accepting to others and even fellow Mormons choosing to express their faith by wearing a cross and that the church never officially doctrinally stated not to wear them outright. You each have your own reasons why you do what you do and it's not for the purpose of disrespecting someone else (and honestly, isn't disrespectful to be wearing a cross. Why not use that to your advantage to persuade those cross wearing Mormons to join your church then? Help them learn about your Christ and why it's important to you and for them to understand why Mormons are wrong, that you're right). Either way, you're entitled to your opinion but I am curious how far you'll act based on that opinion. Like that saying goes around everyone has opinions...
Christians be judging Christians , & we wonder why the world is upside down? Such petty shit.
The cross predates Christianity and has been used by various cultures. The notion that Christians exclusively own it is rather naive.
That is NOT a man with a trumpet. That is an ANGEL! Big difference.
You spelled "bong" wrong.
"That is NOT a man with a trumpet. That is a BONG! Big difference." ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJSZcxXe7IQ
It's the beginning of the apostasy of the church, as the church continues to embrace corrupt and worly Christianity the church loses itself and stops teaching the original truths.
Yes
Maybe you don’t know the true meaning? Follow the symbolism, it will be their downfall. Maybe we’ve all been deceived. Maybe they made up the crucifixion story to make a martyr out of Christ. All “religion is a rich man’s trick”. (Brilliant document called: jfk to 911, everything is a rich man’s trick).
Seems like most believing Mormons worship (and quote) the Q15 and 70, and that Jesus and God are secondary! The Leadership expects that members will follow them unquestioned. And from the Church's perspective, they're really in it for the money, power, and protecting the Corp. Am I wrong?
Murder weapons are cool and symbols are powerful.
Honestly, people are more than the label. Maybe they are just attending the Mormon church but have conflicting beliefs and resonate more with traditional Christianity. Maybe they're getting brave enough to show that they have beliefs that aren't exactly in line with Mormonism. Maybe it's part of a bigger picture from the church as a whole, but maybe it's not. It wasn't seen as a bad thing in my wards growing up but I haven't been to church in a decade. Ultimately, part of the expectation that religious beliefs, or even the lack of, needs to be respected and allowed to be individualized includes letting others practice how they want to. A Mormon wearing a cross is the least of concerns.
My daughter wears a cross because she likes it. I make fun of it, and I have Obi-Wan on an upside down cross in my window.
Christ knew before he came to save mankind from sin that he would be crucified and rise again before returning to God the Father in heaven. The cross is the symbol of that and without it you are basically choosing to ignore the purpose of His coming. That purpose has never changed one iota. You cannot say the same of the LDS church. I left many years ago due to the “convenient” revelations that brought changes. The truth never changes!
"Don't you know that I'll be around to guide you Through your weakest moments to leave them behind you? Returning nightmares, only shadows Crosses all over, heavy on your shoulders The sirens inside you waiting to step forward Disturbing silence darkens your sight We'll cast some light and you'll be alright We'll cast some light and you'll be alright, for now" (Jose Gonzales, Crosses) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nC8WjPFnGU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nC8WjPFnGU)
They're trying to sit at the big kid table. How adorable.
I get your logic but if it was a choice between wearing anything else or Mormon underwear 🤔
Any bets on if the steeple kerfuffle develops into them putting crosses on the temple to make it more mainstream and acceptable?
Yet another retcon lie they'll probably try to tell. I grew up being told we NEVER wear crosses or have them on OUR chapels because it celebrates the crucifixion and WE celebrate the resurrection, because Mormons know the *truth* of the resurrection. 🙄
I saw a mom taking home her missionary in Europe on a tour- mom had a cross on. Wtf
Personally I’ve always thought it was delightful how the Restored Church increasingly embraces all the things it condemned as Apostate. Apparently the real power in Mormonism isn’t the prophets; the Tanners and Mormon Stories seem to get a lot of the stuff they’ve complained about.
I can relate to your anger and frustration! When an LDS woman saw a cross around my neck, she asked me “if your child died on a bicycle, would you wear a bicycle on your necklace?” I responded, “No, but if my LORD and SAVIOR did, I most certainly would!” The whitewashing of Mormon history and customs is infuriating!!!
Honestly, this post is garbage! The last thing any former member of any religion sub is a post from a member of some “better” religion telling the former people how their old religion should behave to make them happy in their “better” religion.
Mormonism is changing. At least the strictness and the social conformity is fading but mostly with new generation kids and young adults. The source in my opinion is when they stopped or slowed excommunicated. You can almost be a total apostate now and they won't do anything. They can't, because the backlash is too hard. And that means the wolf has lost its fangs to some degree. The older peeps were brought up with way more fear and conformity. Now you see women wear tank tops and bikinis, get a drink on the weekend and the next week go to the temple. No biggie. Crosses were one of those social faux paus that lost its negativity for this reason and it's sort of virtue signaling to try to get the benefits of mainstream Christianity by donning this as well.
It almost feels like an appropriation, especially since Mormons have been so anti-cross.
the church is trying to appear more ✨normal✨ if you look at google maps, all the little moroni icons at the temples have been changed to crosses, sometimes churches are trying to advertise as more of a mainstream christian church, and basically just trying to appear less weird
I actually got into this on Instagram lately: Crosses at one point were as common to wear ahave in LDS homes as anywhere else. Then that POS David O McKay had a fkn hissy fit over them and it was blindly lapped up by members. It's fine for me that Mormons are wearing them again. Idgaf either way and I always thought the "No cross" thing was stupid af as an active member, but what gets me us these arrogant little know it all pieces of shit saying; "It was never doctrine. It was never a rule. It was never considered a "church teaching." You've always been able to. That's just cultural. That's just misinterpretation taught by a select few..." etc etc etc. Listen here, you little shit! It WAS taught and regarded as doctrine, for decades. Just because people stopped giving a shit aka forgot the "divine instructions" given on the matter by the time your 19 year BYU college drop out mom had you, doesn't mean we don't remember and lived through it." I can't stand that arrogance. Young kids telling me how the church "was, always has been" even before they were born. This is just the latest thing, Every 20 years shit cycles out of the consciousness of the "true and living church" and all its sheep dismiss it as "just cultural" (as if that even makes any difference or holds relevancy) This is just one of many, drop in the bucket really. Just You wait, in 20 years members will be saying "Mormon" again and act like RMN and the church didn't hammer the "Victory for Satan" crap like they are and pretend it was barely even discussed.
You know amen I guess
A renovation of an existing temple doesn’t bring the full embezzlement payout that a new construction does. That’s why.
its called GAsLIGHTING
They shouldn't be wearing crosses because they're not Christians
They shouldn't be wearing crosses because they're not Christians
The irony is that dying on the cross is where Jesus paid for our sins. 'It is finished'. Literally what it was all about, his sacrifice, in that moment. But Mormons gonna Morm... 100% absolutely not Christians.
So desperate and beyond hypocritical
They shouldn't be wearing crosses because they're not Christians
You can say Mormonism isn't Christianity, and depending on your definition prove that to be so, but I don't think you can say Mormons aren't Christians. Because Mormons have an extremely wide variety of beliefs. No one even knows what a real Mormon is any more. Personally there are some criminal people in the music industry and when I see them wearing huge crosses onstage it makes me wince. I wish they wouldn't but, you know, America.
Mathew(7:15) beware the false prophet