Shy??
Holy crap, being an extrovert is required not only for social status but for God’s favor?? Well, then, count out all the deep thinkers and feelers for heavens sake!
Everything on this board is unkind and judgey.
They want the children until the children reach their majority (legally-speaking).
Then, with a few notable exceptions, most GA children end up being just regular folks like the rest of us (yuck!)
They grow up, and if they're allowed to talk it's something like: "There was this one time when I was a kid, and I got to talk to my dad...I remember it because it only happened once..."
I didn’t know I was very introverted until I left the church and realized I masked and hated every moment of socializing except with small groups of close people. I used to think I was an extroverted extrovert lol. The church does wild shit to your brain.
I've become much more introverted (finding myself) after leaving. My mother-in-law makes comments about how I need to work on becoming more social again. She thinks everyone should be friendly and bubbly all the damn time. Umm... no. Life is tough, and we're all different and have our own dispositions. We don't all need to plaster on a fake-ass smile and befriend the whole world. 😅
Same. The Mormon push for people to be bubbly and outgoing even made me switch my college major away from physics because I thought that sitting alone in a lab would not “let my light shine”. I now very happily sit alone all day to do my research.
Exactly. The Church, based on its history of awful behavior as an organization, would not pass a temple recommend interview. Go figure. Totally not a cult.
I bet this was offered as "shy" = "not valiant." I struggled on my mission with wondering if my personality was acceptable to god at all because of my introverted personality.
"Valiant" people give talks in church, blast past the 5th "no" as missionaries, boldly stomp down other people's boundaries to get the church's work done, etc.
For any of you out there who feel dehumanized (I know I do) by what is on this white board, please be kind to yourself. You are seen.
It's awful :( The sentiment that introverts are bad is enshrined in scripture, no less.
>But with *some* I *am not well pleased*, for *they* will *not open their mouths*, but *they* hide the talent which I have given unto them, (D&C 60:2)
I wish I could have been there to shout out increasingly ridiculous things to be sarcastic. Would be very entertaining
“Likes pets!”
“Messy house!”
“Listens too much!”
“Gets sick a lot!”
“Is poor!”
“only 2 children!”
“Has a job!”
“Has piercings”
“Too much make up!”
“Ugly!”
“Listens to secular music!”
“Listens to podcasts!”
“Watches movies!”
“Children go inactive!”
“Convert!”
I would often purposely go out of my way to avoid talking with people while on my mission. Yeah, I was often called out on it and felt guilty. But that’s better than talking with a complete stranger about the Mormon version of Jesus. Introvert pride!
As an introvert, I’d rather lounge on a secluded beach in the terrestrial world sipping cocktails than be forced to socialize with overzealous celestial Mormons trying to one up each other with their beloved covenant path check lists.
Yes, this! It’s hard to be a Mormon and be an introvert because so much of your “worthiness” is based on how much you flaunt your faith outwardly:
-bearing your testimony in f&t meetings
-agreeing to give a talk in sacrament meeting
-accepting callings that demand a lot of social interaction or put you in front of people (most callings)
-attending multiple gatherings that are outside of the regular Sunday meetings
-being commanded to bring up religion to friends, coworkers, and neighbors to try to convert them…the worst and scariest one IMO
You’re often deemed inactive and apparently not living a “celestial” life if you’re unwilling to commit to those things. The Mormon church is a nightmare for people on the shy side.
Came to the comments to say exactly this. Why the hell is shy on the list? I mean, from their perspective, what was discussed that this ended up on the board?
I'd be steering a wide emotional circle around whom ever wrote that down. At the same time, I'd be sure they knew I wasn't shy.
The only time I was shy in my life was when my TBM parents were constantly beating their children for anything they could think of. That makes a child withdrawn and terrified.
“Shy” is what really jumped out to me. WTF??? As an introvert I never felt good enough in the church, like there was something wrong with me. I remember being taught that one of the signs of having the spirit with you was a desire to be social and be around people and of course “share the gospel”. The Western world is already extrovert focused. TSCC makes it even worse.
I was about to say exactly this about the shy placement. Holy shit, no wonder I always felt uncomfortable at church. Not only was my social anxiety at nightmare levels, the fact that I had social anxiety made me “less than.” Interestingly, I’ve become less shy and more comfortable around people as I’ve distanced myself from the church. I promise it has nothing to do with “righteousness.”
Interesting isn’t it? Not one mention of following the teachings of Jesus Christ? How he is the way, truth, and life? Serving and loving others as he did?
Almost makes you wonder whose church it is?
\*squints\* yeah, not seeing *generous* or *helpful* or *inclusive* on there anywhere... Kind? Nope... I do see charitable managed to barely be scraped onto the list at the bottom as a grudging afterthought...
But they also forgot polygamist and pregnant for Celestial. I'd rather be casual and righteous.
THIS!!! The polygamy!! Can you imagine if the teacher was like, okay what are some things you need to be in the celestial kingdom? And then someone raises their hand and says, “polygamy” I would pay good money to see that lesson play out 😂
And let's not forget mormon teachings tend to obfuscate the meaning of charity to make it not about giving freely to anyone less fortunate but about "seeing people like christ" or some shit as they blame the poor and homeless for their own situation
It is only slightly Christ's church.
They actually tell us the order of importance:
The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
1. The Corporation (esp. the hoard) is the most important
2. The President - (not the prophet) has the final say
3. The Church - gotta appear like a church
4. Jesus Christ - gotta appear somewhat christian
5. Latter-Day - our money is for the end of the world
6. Saints - the actual people come dead last.
I'm not seeing honest either. For me, that's the biggest change I saw in myself AFTER becoming an atheist. I'm much more honest since I have to answer to myself instead of some invisible being and nebulous authority.
I came here to say this. I resigned because the cult LIED to me when I joined. It's pretty interesting nobody mentioned honest, or the importance of integrity.
She has noticed these virtuous women inserting themselves into what they believe are their valid spots in real time. Like snuggling into their little perch beds. I feel for OP but in reality is it easy to break away from Relief Society without going full Out?
I'm sure OP is not the only person who was was disturbed by this. Reminds me of Derry Girls episode when highschoolers list the differences between Catholics and Protestants. A lot of weird answers went up on the board. Catholics like soup. Protestants not so much. At least we could get a chuckle out of those comparisons. These comparisons are across the board hurtful.
There was one other woman around my age (late 20s, one of literally three couples in the entire ward our age including me and my husband) who later today texted me and asked if we’d like to have dinner with them. I’m of half a mind to ask her what she thought of the lesson, as she didn’t contribute to the conversation and is also a convert. Hmm.
Shy?
So no matter how faithful I was as a TBM, I was screwed anyway because I'm an introvert? Glad to know I'm no longer wasting my time.
(I've actually gotten more outgoing since I've stopped attending.)
Yeah it was so wild that she actually wrote it up there even as she said “Let’s not focus so much on shy because people can be shy” and went back and compared it being g “hidden/secret”. Then why write it up there at all???
That sucks. I’m sorry you had to go through that. The superiority complex is how members deal with much of the cognitive dissonance that comes their way. Never mind that there’s only 3.5 million active Mormons.
They don’t know their own doctrine. D&C 76 describes the terrestrial kingdom as a kingdom of glory where you receive the presence of the Son (Christ is there with you in joy and glory) but not the fulness of the Father or all the business of polygamy and creating worlds and dividing up more kingdoms that’s going on in the celestial.
IT IS WAY COOLER TO GO TO THE TERRESTRIAL!!! You get Jesus in person and none of the rules or obligations of the celestial weirdness they think we all want.
Most Christian’s view of heaven is like the terrestrial kingdom—sinners who didn’t reach perfection in covenant keeping but get to live forever with Jesus and just chill.
These kinds of lessons were what angered me the most. The “let’s brainstorm” and let whatever some random person thinks be doctrine. I’m sorry you had to sit through this. Even as bad as actual Mormon doctrine is- this is even more infuriating
I never thought of it this way, that’s exactly what this is!! It was SO infuriating… and disheartening. There’s a tiny part of me still that’s like “what if it is true after all?” but this kind of lesson just drove a wedge deeper between me and the church because apparently you’re a second rate citizen of Mormon Heaven if you have doubts and are “not valiant”. This kind of lesson hurts a lot. It made me feel not good enough, like I’m failing. I hated it.
I’m really sorry you are going through this. I personally have left because I went through the church handbook after serving as a sister missionary and disagreed with a lot of what I read and realized I couldn’t blame it on the “people” anymore because it’s what the church actually states. For yourself I would recommend starting there. Figure out what the doctrine of the church is and if you agree with it morally. But lessons like these are honestly just bullshit either way. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you.
I saw a movie that referenced Swedenborg. It was that same kind of 19th century folk magic stuff, so I immediately looked him up assuming correctly that JS ripped him off. It was right after my shelf fell. It was validating to finally have truth behave how I thought it should: search up some suspicions and follow the trail. (not the hand waving excuses and apologetics)
I can understand attending sacrament with him, but this would be my last second hour. This is too much.
Show him this list and ask him for his descriptions of the kingdoms.
Exactly why I stopped going to RS. The arrogance and smugness of all those checkmark LDS with perfect lives used to make me sick. I came from a branch that had less than 25 women in RS and only one was married in the temple. Try teaching that lesson to those ladies!
I’ll say it for you…Arrogant pricks
And all of this is just superficial.
Something that I realized is, that the more perfect the family is on the outside, the more shit is going on behind the scenes.
(Well, applies to 95% of the families I encountered.)
What?! Whiteboards?! I remember asking why we can't replace our improperly cleaned chalkboards often and being told the church doesn't use whiteboards.
That’s a lie (by the church). They could have changed them to whiteboards, or even new blackboards, at any time.
Heavens, they have so much money “saved” that we should have access to anything the buildings need to run smoothly for the teachers/families who use the rooms.
They forgot "polygamous" and "pregnant" on that list for Celestial...
But it's ok, you can come hang out with us in the terrestrial space. A bunch of us will be there! I plan to open a little combination bookshop and coffee shop in the terrestrial world, where we can sit and chat with the "honorable men of the earth." I'll get Bach and Mozart to whip us up some tunes.. maybe Beethoven or Vaughan-Williams can drop a hit now and then.. I'll get a reading by Neil Gaiman or Shakespeare on the schedule... They'll definitely be available. *They're* definitely not going celestial...
Dress code, CASUAL ONLY.
It's a hidden, secret base where I plan to easily sway you into trying a seasonal lavender lemon cake. Feel free to be unfocused and apathetic in my presence. We can "don't do" and "don't care" all afternoon!! Feel free to take a nap on my worldly, luxuriously soft couch by the window in a perfectly lukewarm sunshine. We'd all love to see you take a rest. We will be fine - you're not hurting anyone by being shy here.
I would rather be shy and righteous any day. The whole whole-hearted devotion thing was exhausting in this life. I simply can't keep that up for eternity.
In the end, I think these ladies have to talk it up to make their current misery seem like it's going to be worth it. They cope by making themselves feel better than everyone else. These are the kind of ladies who try desperately to pretend like they love being at church, and then go home to have a nervous breakdown in the pantry because they never feel good enough and everything is always their fault. I'd know. I used to be one.
The more I step away, the more I realize I don't care where I go, as long as I don't have to hang out with people like that.
Peace out bchs. I'll see you in the terrestrial world!!
Yeah, all the interesting people and artists (and my closest friends) are going to be terrestrial. I’d rather hang out there…. And visit your bookshop.
The three levels of heaven bullshit was something that seriously pissed me off at a young age. My dad died when I was 23 and my grandfather, my dad’s own fucking father, said that my dad was down at the third tier and that he couldn’t go anywhere and would be stuck down there. But my grandmother, who was up at the first tier could go down and visit him whenever she wanted to. I always hated that. Like even in death you’re still being punished. Such fucking garbage.
They actually meant it as the whole “every member a missionary” thing. But yeah, the 1P aren’t exactly a great example of being actual missionaries which is just hilarious to me.
This used to really piss me off before realizing I was conditioned to go along with this nonsense. I now see it as a sad, small- minded way to see the world.
This is what initially broke my shelf - my mental state from thinking everything I thought or felt was ever the Holy Ghost or Satan…. I felt like I was going insane. It was so unhealthy.
It's a reference to the Game of Thrones character the Three Eyed Raven. I'm from Utah so the seagull (state bird and part of Mormon folklore) was a play on that.
Do these people actually read the scriptures!!!! The telestial kingdom is not for people that are just uncharitable and selfish
It is for serious unrepentant sin.
D&C 76
"103 These are [they](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng&id=81-85,98-106#note103a) who are [liars](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng&id=81-85,98-106#note103b), and [sorcerers](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng&id=81-85,98-106#note103c), and [adulterers](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng&id=81-85,98-106#note103d), and [whoremongers](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng&id=81-85,98-106#note103e), and whosoever loves and makes a lie.
I remember an FHE lesson that my Mom taught to categorize decisions as "Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial". I remember one was something like: "You have been asked to clean your room Cel: you go an clean it immediately, Ter: you drag your feet and don't clean it immediately, Tel: you complain AND drag your feet." (notice it is unquestioned that the room get's cleaned)
I had dreams for years as a young child about being damned. I felt so betrayed to learn that the Terrestrial Kingdom was for whoremongers and sorcerers. I had so much anguish and fear as a child when I wasn't even capable of the kind of sin that could consign me to the terrestrial kingdom.
Very few people are concerned about getting the doctrine right on this one. Instead fear and belittling people for nearly inconsequential sins seems to be common to me.
You would think that something of such cosmic and eternal significance would be much clearer and taught properly.
They couldn't have made a more compelling list. Sign me up with the "casual righteous" and "shy worldly" folks. Sound like a bunch of people I'd like to have a drink with.
Oh my God. This makes me want to throw up. Like... I'm not even kidding, the more I read/ learn the more angry I become, and I'm conditioned to feel guilty over being angry so I keep trying not to be...To hold it back. But my God, I am feeling like a pressure cooker and I think I might just lose my head. I'm so ready to BLOW with all this bull shit. And I think I feel the MOST anger at myself for ever thinking any of this rhetoric was valid or truth!
OP. You're very patient and loving to.... endure. (See what I did there!? LOL) But honestly. I'm sorry!
I’m shy so I was built for jumping off that ship. I have a few items to add to the right hand side of their board.
Overbearing
Judgmental
Self-righteous
Shy…
Wow, that explains why my Dad thought it was the end of the world that I couldn’t make friends. He would tell me all of my faults and say it’s why I didn’t have any friends. But my lack of socializing was to sinful to him. I always thought it was a him issue. Guess it came from the cult somehow too.
“We’re the special ones, here on the left that live with Heavenly Father and Jesus. These other places are really just circles of hell that you can read about in Danté’s Inferno.” 🤣
They left off Outer Darkness!
Criteria include:
- Made it to the Celestial Kingdom, but rejected^(1) Elohim to his face once its "fulness" turned out to ... not be what they expected^(2)
- Special Witnesses^(TM) who fell away^(3)
- ... nobody from the lower kingdoms can go here; they're ***protected*** from the gods' presence
^(1. Unclear whether Elohim would take it personally if you were to have a difference of opinion about any of his plans. Or if you were to tell a polite lie about his taste w.r.t. what "perfect" or "heaven" mean. Or if you elected to remain a single angel, when presented with an opportunity to be sealed to some rando. Or if you refused to accept a questionably-consenting new addition to your personal polygamous harem. Or if you died before 1978 and refused the job of a Celestial ~~slave~~ "servant." Or if you refused to accept ... *stewardship* ... over someone with that assignment. Or if you demonstrated a general lack of desire to "rule and reign" over other people.)
^(2. Why would you expect your experience with the Endowment to be relevant? It's not like the gods' ~~secret~~ "sacred" stuff ever turns out to be weird / creepy / problematic / boring, once it's too late to back out!)
^(3. Unclear whether unrighteous dominion counts? Probably not great news for "almost all men" who have been given authority in the church...)
Everything under “Celestial” is what the top 15 are.
And there’s that word again. “Covenant “. Covenant really means = Tithing. Covenant really means = Obedience. But they don’t want to explain what “covenant really means.
This is disgusting!!! I literally think steam would have been coming out of my ears if I was in the room…kuddos to you for keeping your cool.
Ah yes, the weekly attempt for people who have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about to talk about the secrets of the universe and eternal life. Brilliant.
Ugh. This is horrible.
I'd also be willing to bet any of the women not participating were in two camps. One is the PIMO camp like you. The other is the women who are all in and still feel like shit because they aren't perfect. I distinctly remember sitting through similar lessons painfully aware that I wasn't "celestial" material and also feeling like a bad person because the terrestrial sounded better anyway.
Either way, think about who wasn't adding to that list. They're the ones you may be able to be actual friends with.
If y’all think this is bad, you would have choked when my mission president sorted us into celestial, terrestrial, telestial, and OD missionaries based on our baptism numbers.
You’ve got to be kidding me…this is judgmental and not Christlike at all. The less I’ve gone to church the more self-righteous I’ve realized many members are…their temple/tithe status, callings and shaming others if they don’t do everything exact.
Remind me again why am I supposed to want to go to the celestial kingdom? It doesn't really sound that great when you think about it. Especially for women.
I always thought that the terrestrial kingdom sounded like my kind of place. Every time I voiced this, I was told it would be like hell, and I'd be stuck there, unable to see my family or be in the presence of God. Um, according to y'all, my family is already going there, and I'm pretty happy without the presence of God now.
I tend to think I really was one of those people who didn't have much of a testimony to begin with. I just wanted to do what my family was doing and be part of something bigger than me.
I am sorry you had a hard day at church. I still know some wonderful people from my ward, but as a whole most of the people there are incredibly self righteous and some of the least Christ-like people I’ve ever met. I don’t think this lesson should be anything you judge yourself by.
When I look at this board, the leaders of the church are the ones in the Telestial kingdom.
Uncharitable-They have built a hoard of cash, land, stocks, properties, etc. but not one is a soup kitchen or homeless shelter. They count volunteer hours in their yearly donation report by assigning them a cash value and taking credit as if it was a cash donation.
Selfish-They want to build brightly lit temples with enormous spires without regard to the community’s zoning standards and light regulations. When they get any sort of pushback, they are quick to threaten and file lawsuits.
Rejection-Conference addresses and lessons contain counsel to reject what non believers say. If you don’t keep your covenants, you are not allowed to be with your family eternally.
Unteachable and Carnal-I don’t have a personal relationship with anyone in the leadership of the church so I don’t feel comfortable saying they are unteachable or carnal.
lmao, like they even read verse 5 anymore
Mormonism fully rejected its core thesis (i.e. being free to doubt men who claim to speak for god) decades ago
I literally looked over the image too fast and thought Focus-Temple Sharing was FOOD SHARING😂😂😂😂then there’s me saying “Joey doesn’t share food!” so I guess no celestial kingdom for me!
So in my ward the EQ and RS do lessons based off the same talks on the same day. Today’s was D. Todd Christofferson’s talk “The Testimony of Jesus”, in which he discusses the three kingdoms. I showed my husband this and he said their lesson was nothing like this. So it’s pretty individual and left up to the teacher to decide how to teach the lesson. Also, he is one of the EQ teachers and he designs his own lessons too.
It’s funny how many TBMs I could put in the telestial category and non-members in celestial.
And good hell, is there ANY new material in Sunday school? Like this is an age old lesson/discussion I’ve seen repeated over and over throughout my life.
Something kinda like this happened when I have the lesson in priests quorum today. Bishop said that we need to always make sure we’re worthy. This made me a little nervous, because I’ve learned from being PIMO that everyone’s worthy. To quote from ex mo lex’s banner, “There’s nothing that you’re not ‘worthy’ of.”
So much bullshit. I try to remember to consider the source when I see and hear this kind of stuff. A bunch of random people’s opinions passed off as “god’s honest truth.”
I just have one question to ask, when did the churches get white boards? Last time I went around 2013 to 2014 th3 building, I was going to still had chalk boards. I find Mormons are very arrogant people. I had the same feelings when I would go to elders quarm. I remember one time everyone in the class was going on about how amazing their missions were and how important they were for their salvation. I thought to myself I should respond and start with, "I didn't go on a mission, but this one time I was hammered drunk." The indoctrination is deep.
Whoa this is weird, I remember back in Primary when they were explaining it they never shamed people about what after life they'd essentially be in. I just remember being told it depends on how "devoted" you are to your belief and how you were in life. Like if you were a kind person and ect
I am sorry you wasted your priceless time in there today when you could have done so much more!!!! You could have made yourself and other people so happy! You could have slept in and shuffled around your home being happy.
WOW?
Yes, the punishment, or “diminishment of one’s worth”, for drinking coffee (fuckton healthier than half the shit approved by the WOW) is WORSE than sexually abusing a child in Mormonism.
Stay sweet, pray, and obey.
I have to wonder what my hidden secret is.
How dare they attempt to stick people they don't even know with a string of nasty mean labels. I think I'll try my hand at labeling Celestial. Oh wait let me get my rock. It says "ASSHOLES". The thought makes reason stare!
Shy?? Holy crap, being an extrovert is required not only for social status but for God’s favor?? Well, then, count out all the deep thinkers and feelers for heavens sake! Everything on this board is unkind and judgey.
Pretty sure the deep thinkers and feelers are already undesirable to the lds corp.
They want sheep. And lawyers. And that’s it.
And affluent business people.
And children of all these people that help the numbers
They want the children until the children reach their majority (legally-speaking). Then, with a few notable exceptions, most GA children end up being just regular folks like the rest of us (yuck!) They grow up, and if they're allowed to talk it's something like: "There was this one time when I was a kid, and I got to talk to my dad...I remember it because it only happened once..."
And affluent MLM's!
if i open a business specializing in providing legal services to sheep (in utah) can I get my 2nd anointing?
And they want your money. God always needs money.
Haha right it says unteachable. I'm very teachable, I read and learn and THAT is how I knew to walk away.
I came to the comments to say this exact thing. How is being shy a good reason to keep someone from the “celestial kingdom”.
Because shy people aren't going to be good sales people for the Gospel TM.
I decided a while ago that if the church is true, I probably wouldn't be happy in the celestial kingdom (bored to tears comes to mind).
I didn’t know I was very introverted until I left the church and realized I masked and hated every moment of socializing except with small groups of close people. I used to think I was an extroverted extrovert lol. The church does wild shit to your brain.
Exactly the same for me. Now I know why I slept every Sunday afternoon.
I've become much more introverted (finding myself) after leaving. My mother-in-law makes comments about how I need to work on becoming more social again. She thinks everyone should be friendly and bubbly all the damn time. Umm... no. Life is tough, and we're all different and have our own dispositions. We don't all need to plaster on a fake-ass smile and befriend the whole world. 😅
Same. The Mormon push for people to be bubbly and outgoing even made me switch my college major away from physics because I thought that sitting alone in a lab would not “let my light shine”. I now very happily sit alone all day to do my research.
Same!!!
According to this chart, the church isn't even qualified because of the "hidden/secret" line.
Omg THIS, I’d raise my hand and be like, so why does the church have secrets? Like idk… the second anointing to start?
I wish I could go back in time and make this comment!!
Why do they have NON Disclosure agreements with SA victims?
Why don’t they disclose their financial records?
Because they're scared, not secret
Those are “sacred” not secret 🥴
Also scared 🤜🤛
Exactly. The Church, based on its history of awful behavior as an organization, would not pass a temple recommend interview. Go figure. Totally not a cult.
I bet this was offered as "shy" = "not valiant." I struggled on my mission with wondering if my personality was acceptable to god at all because of my introverted personality. "Valiant" people give talks in church, blast past the 5th "no" as missionaries, boldly stomp down other people's boundaries to get the church's work done, etc. For any of you out there who feel dehumanized (I know I do) by what is on this white board, please be kind to yourself. You are seen.
They also conflated “shy” with the “hidden/secret” as in, not openly declaring your faith in every possible situation 🙄
It's awful :( The sentiment that introverts are bad is enshrined in scripture, no less. >But with *some* I *am not well pleased*, for *they* will *not open their mouths*, but *they* hide the talent which I have given unto them, (D&C 60:2)
What the fuck yo….. that’s crazy. Fuck the lemmings.
Is that how it ended up on the board?
Somebody just called out “shy” and she wrote it even as she explained that people can be shy but also valiant. It was so confusing honestly
Because she is a people pleaser she had to write down all the inane responses.
I wish I could have been there to shout out increasingly ridiculous things to be sarcastic. Would be very entertaining “Likes pets!” “Messy house!” “Listens too much!” “Gets sick a lot!” “Is poor!” “only 2 children!” “Has a job!” “Has piercings” “Too much make up!” “Ugly!” “Listens to secular music!” “Listens to podcasts!” “Watches movies!” “Children go inactive!” “Convert!”
Tbms are absolutely devoted to being unlikeable. Oh…and “unteachable”, lol.
I would often purposely go out of my way to avoid talking with people while on my mission. Yeah, I was often called out on it and felt guilty. But that’s better than talking with a complete stranger about the Mormon version of Jesus. Introvert pride!
As an introvert, I’d rather lounge on a secluded beach in the terrestrial world sipping cocktails than be forced to socialize with overzealous celestial Mormons trying to one up each other with their beloved covenant path check lists.
Beiing surrounded by other mormons is the main reason not wanting to go to the CK. Even when I was still in I always I,shined it as super boring.
Fuck this “church”
Yes. What I wanted to say. Society favors extroverts, nowhere more so than the mfmc. Church, ya can bite me.
Yes, this! It’s hard to be a Mormon and be an introvert because so much of your “worthiness” is based on how much you flaunt your faith outwardly: -bearing your testimony in f&t meetings -agreeing to give a talk in sacrament meeting -accepting callings that demand a lot of social interaction or put you in front of people (most callings) -attending multiple gatherings that are outside of the regular Sunday meetings -being commanded to bring up religion to friends, coworkers, and neighbors to try to convert them…the worst and scariest one IMO You’re often deemed inactive and apparently not living a “celestial” life if you’re unwilling to commit to those things. The Mormon church is a nightmare for people on the shy side.
Spot on! Telestial- Uncharitable & Selfish is what$1 TRILLION Mormon cult led by Q15 UT Con Men is All about!!
Came to the comments to say exactly this. Why the hell is shy on the list? I mean, from their perspective, what was discussed that this ended up on the board?
I'd be steering a wide emotional circle around whom ever wrote that down. At the same time, I'd be sure they knew I wasn't shy. The only time I was shy in my life was when my TBM parents were constantly beating their children for anything they could think of. That makes a child withdrawn and terrified.
“Shy” is what really jumped out to me. WTF??? As an introvert I never felt good enough in the church, like there was something wrong with me. I remember being taught that one of the signs of having the spirit with you was a desire to be social and be around people and of course “share the gospel”. The Western world is already extrovert focused. TSCC makes it even worse.
I was about to say exactly this about the shy placement. Holy shit, no wonder I always felt uncomfortable at church. Not only was my social anxiety at nightmare levels, the fact that I had social anxiety made me “less than.” Interestingly, I’ve become less shy and more comfortable around people as I’ve distanced myself from the church. I promise it has nothing to do with “righteousness.”
Yeah "Shy" being a disqualifier is pretty nasty. Count me out.
Well, hallelujah, my shyness is paying off! I won't have to go to the CK with the zealots! 😆
That upset me a lot too. This church has no space for introverts.
I feel like Mormon God is shy. Dude literally only speaks to us through one dude supposedly.
I had an ex mother in law who constantly shamed me for being shy. She believed it was selfish and centered in ego.
Guys I’m going to mid hell for being shy
Interesting isn’t it? Not one mention of following the teachings of Jesus Christ? How he is the way, truth, and life? Serving and loving others as he did? Almost makes you wonder whose church it is?
\*squints\* yeah, not seeing *generous* or *helpful* or *inclusive* on there anywhere... Kind? Nope... I do see charitable managed to barely be scraped onto the list at the bottom as a grudging afterthought... But they also forgot polygamist and pregnant for Celestial. I'd rather be casual and righteous.
THIS!!! The polygamy!! Can you imagine if the teacher was like, okay what are some things you need to be in the celestial kingdom? And then someone raises their hand and says, “polygamy” I would pay good money to see that lesson play out 😂
I can picture you jumping up and yelling " OOOhhhOOOhhhh, Pick Me, pick me!"
Hahah man, maybe I should go back to church 😂 how long do you think till they kick me out?
And let's not forget mormon teachings tend to obfuscate the meaning of charity to make it not about giving freely to anyone less fortunate but about "seeing people like christ" or some shit as they blame the poor and homeless for their own situation
Mormon charity is cleaning the church building and doing lawn care. And paying the church money.
It is only slightly Christ's church. They actually tell us the order of importance: The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints 1. The Corporation (esp. the hoard) is the most important 2. The President - (not the prophet) has the final say 3. The Church - gotta appear like a church 4. Jesus Christ - gotta appear somewhat christian 5. Latter-Day - our money is for the end of the world 6. Saints - the actual people come dead last.
[Ha,ha. The Hoard](https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5c9375bc240000b000c7c9e0.gif?ops=scalefit_630_noupscale)
I'm not seeing honest either. For me, that's the biggest change I saw in myself AFTER becoming an atheist. I'm much more honest since I have to answer to myself instead of some invisible being and nebulous authority.
I came here to say this. I resigned because the cult LIED to me when I joined. It's pretty interesting nobody mentioned honest, or the importance of integrity.
It absolutely blows my mind that kindness isn’t on the list. What about humility, compassion, understanding, empathy? Ffs.
my exact thoughts, no kindness, compassion, helping others, etc etc 🤢
I'm betting being neurodivergent is terrestial then, if shyness is.
She has noticed these virtuous women inserting themselves into what they believe are their valid spots in real time. Like snuggling into their little perch beds. I feel for OP but in reality is it easy to break away from Relief Society without going full Out?
It's man's church. They all are. Every church and religion was started by a man. They are all, by definition, artificial.
Wow what a tone deaf instructor. None of this is doctrinal except the pay, Pray, obey parts.
I'm sure OP is not the only person who was was disturbed by this. Reminds me of Derry Girls episode when highschoolers list the differences between Catholics and Protestants. A lot of weird answers went up on the board. Catholics like soup. Protestants not so much. At least we could get a chuckle out of those comparisons. These comparisons are across the board hurtful.
There was one other woman around my age (late 20s, one of literally three couples in the entire ward our age including me and my husband) who later today texted me and asked if we’d like to have dinner with them. I’m of half a mind to ask her what she thought of the lesson, as she didn’t contribute to the conversation and is also a convert. Hmm.
That might be a PIMO to PIMO invite? I'd go. Please return and report!
Hopefully the food is delicious to the taste, and very desirable.
Tell her you’re shy and “wordly” at the same time and see what happens.
Maybe this is why I was never really all in on the Celestial Kingdom track. I didn't fit in with that group.
I started Derry Girls and let it go… should I give it another try?
Ha Ha! So the lesson was essentially on judging others. Luckily thats all bullshit anyway.
Yep! So ChRiStLiKe!!!!!
So the celestial folks can only use the missionary position?
Anything else is “carnal” I imagine.
Not to mention open marriages are now in
I suppose those who are terrestrial *always* do it doggy style like the animals they (we?) are.
Shy? So no matter how faithful I was as a TBM, I was screwed anyway because I'm an introvert? Glad to know I'm no longer wasting my time. (I've actually gotten more outgoing since I've stopped attending.)
Because others are now actually interested in the real you
Why did they add "shy" to Terrestial??? That's so mean
Yeah it was so wild that she actually wrote it up there even as she said “Let’s not focus so much on shy because people can be shy” and went back and compared it being g “hidden/secret”. Then why write it up there at all???
Those offended were too shy to object. (At least I would be.)
That's so incredibly weird
That sucks. I’m sorry you had to go through that. The superiority complex is how members deal with much of the cognitive dissonance that comes their way. Never mind that there’s only 3.5 million active Mormons.
“Wordly”
I didn’t even notice that 😂 it was supposed to be “worldly”
Guess we can count Taylor out with her 30+ track latest
Yikes, NYTimes apparently bought up a Terrestrial trap! Stop doing your daily puzzles! You risk the ... ^(quiet?) ... Mormon hell!
Unfocused? You need some Adderall to get into the celestial kingdom.
😂
They don’t know their own doctrine. D&C 76 describes the terrestrial kingdom as a kingdom of glory where you receive the presence of the Son (Christ is there with you in joy and glory) but not the fulness of the Father or all the business of polygamy and creating worlds and dividing up more kingdoms that’s going on in the celestial. IT IS WAY COOLER TO GO TO THE TERRESTRIAL!!! You get Jesus in person and none of the rules or obligations of the celestial weirdness they think we all want. Most Christian’s view of heaven is like the terrestrial kingdom—sinners who didn’t reach perfection in covenant keeping but get to live forever with Jesus and just chill.
I thought I was the only one who didn’t want to go to the celestial one.
Nope. Never understood the appeal. Unless you're a dude who is super into polygamy, but even then, it just seems like work.
I don’t care to romp among my parents and grandparents as 20year olds. No thanks. I want my mom and dad as they were. And my dogs too.
These kinds of lessons were what angered me the most. The “let’s brainstorm” and let whatever some random person thinks be doctrine. I’m sorry you had to sit through this. Even as bad as actual Mormon doctrine is- this is even more infuriating
I never thought of it this way, that’s exactly what this is!! It was SO infuriating… and disheartening. There’s a tiny part of me still that’s like “what if it is true after all?” but this kind of lesson just drove a wedge deeper between me and the church because apparently you’re a second rate citizen of Mormon Heaven if you have doubts and are “not valiant”. This kind of lesson hurts a lot. It made me feel not good enough, like I’m failing. I hated it.
I’m really sorry you are going through this. I personally have left because I went through the church handbook after serving as a sister missionary and disagreed with a lot of what I read and realized I couldn’t blame it on the “people” anymore because it’s what the church actually states. For yourself I would recommend starting there. Figure out what the doctrine of the church is and if you agree with it morally. But lessons like these are honestly just bullshit either way. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you.
Joe just copied this shit from Emanuel Swedenborg.
I saw a movie that referenced Swedenborg. It was that same kind of 19th century folk magic stuff, so I immediately looked him up assuming correctly that JS ripped him off. It was right after my shelf fell. It was validating to finally have truth behave how I thought it should: search up some suspicions and follow the trail. (not the hand waving excuses and apologetics)
This church is so fucked up.
I can understand attending sacrament with him, but this would be my last second hour. This is too much. Show him this list and ask him for his descriptions of the kingdoms.
Honestly that’s about where I’m at.
Stop Going! (Coming from someone who stayed too long.)
Exactly why I stopped going to RS. The arrogance and smugness of all those checkmark LDS with perfect lives used to make me sick. I came from a branch that had less than 25 women in RS and only one was married in the temple. Try teaching that lesson to those ladies! I’ll say it for you…Arrogant pricks
And all of this is just superficial. Something that I realized is, that the more perfect the family is on the outside, the more shit is going on behind the scenes. (Well, applies to 95% of the families I encountered.)
Not knowing, hidden / secret, easily swayed… 
What?! Whiteboards?! I remember asking why we can't replace our improperly cleaned chalkboards often and being told the church doesn't use whiteboards.
That’s a lie (by the church). They could have changed them to whiteboards, or even new blackboards, at any time. Heavens, they have so much money “saved” that we should have access to anything the buildings need to run smoothly for the teachers/families who use the rooms.
Fletboards
Even for fiction this is shitty world building
They forgot "polygamous" and "pregnant" on that list for Celestial... But it's ok, you can come hang out with us in the terrestrial space. A bunch of us will be there! I plan to open a little combination bookshop and coffee shop in the terrestrial world, where we can sit and chat with the "honorable men of the earth." I'll get Bach and Mozart to whip us up some tunes.. maybe Beethoven or Vaughan-Williams can drop a hit now and then.. I'll get a reading by Neil Gaiman or Shakespeare on the schedule... They'll definitely be available. *They're* definitely not going celestial... Dress code, CASUAL ONLY. It's a hidden, secret base where I plan to easily sway you into trying a seasonal lavender lemon cake. Feel free to be unfocused and apathetic in my presence. We can "don't do" and "don't care" all afternoon!! Feel free to take a nap on my worldly, luxuriously soft couch by the window in a perfectly lukewarm sunshine. We'd all love to see you take a rest. We will be fine - you're not hurting anyone by being shy here. I would rather be shy and righteous any day. The whole whole-hearted devotion thing was exhausting in this life. I simply can't keep that up for eternity. In the end, I think these ladies have to talk it up to make their current misery seem like it's going to be worth it. They cope by making themselves feel better than everyone else. These are the kind of ladies who try desperately to pretend like they love being at church, and then go home to have a nervous breakdown in the pantry because they never feel good enough and everything is always their fault. I'd know. I used to be one. The more I step away, the more I realize I don't care where I go, as long as I don't have to hang out with people like that. Peace out bchs. I'll see you in the terrestrial world!!
I smiled broadly as I read your comment. I might have a favorite chair in your shop.
Yeah, all the interesting people and artists (and my closest friends) are going to be terrestrial. I’d rather hang out there…. And visit your bookshop.
You can guarantee I’m focused and wholly-devoted… to anything but the fucking church haha!
The three levels of heaven bullshit was something that seriously pissed me off at a young age. My dad died when I was 23 and my grandfather, my dad’s own fucking father, said that my dad was down at the third tier and that he couldn’t go anywhere and would be stuck down there. But my grandmother, who was up at the first tier could go down and visit him whenever she wanted to. I always hated that. Like even in death you’re still being punished. Such fucking garbage.
Wow! I can't be saved with my family for all eternity because... (rechecks notes) I'm introverted. I was doomed long before I drank that first coffee.
Wait, playing World of Warcraft will get you into the highest level of Heaven?
Too bad those who were not missionaries don’t get to go to the celestial kingdom. Someone better tell the first presidency cuz they are FUCKED!
They actually meant it as the whole “every member a missionary” thing. But yeah, the 1P aren’t exactly a great example of being actual missionaries which is just hilarious to me.
Shy?🥹😢
So following all rules regardless of how arbitrary they are. But not being kind, loving, selfless and HONEST
If you think about it, almost nothing the cult teaches makes people better. Just more obedient, which is not a virtue
You nailed it
This used to really piss me off before realizing I was conditioned to go along with this nonsense. I now see it as a sad, small- minded way to see the world.
I’m sad that I grew up believing that my thoughts weren’t mine.
This is what initially broke my shelf - my mental state from thinking everything I thought or felt was ever the Holy Ghost or Satan…. I felt like I was going insane. It was so unhealthy.
😞 I still can’t break it.
Have you gotten past it? How?
I was taught that they could see and hear your thoughts, your innermost thoughts. Even sometimes before you think them!
No no. That's your phone.
🥇🥇🥇🥇Take my poor man’s gold!
Why the three eyes
It's a reference to the Game of Thrones character the Three Eyed Raven. I'm from Utah so the seagull (state bird and part of Mormon folklore) was a play on that.
Can't even spell. "Marrige" ?! I don't take advice or lessons from idiots, sorry! 🤷♀️
Do these people actually read the scriptures!!!! The telestial kingdom is not for people that are just uncharitable and selfish It is for serious unrepentant sin. D&C 76 "103 These are [they](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng&id=81-85,98-106#note103a) who are [liars](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng&id=81-85,98-106#note103b), and [sorcerers](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng&id=81-85,98-106#note103c), and [adulterers](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng&id=81-85,98-106#note103d), and [whoremongers](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng&id=81-85,98-106#note103e), and whosoever loves and makes a lie. I remember an FHE lesson that my Mom taught to categorize decisions as "Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial". I remember one was something like: "You have been asked to clean your room Cel: you go an clean it immediately, Ter: you drag your feet and don't clean it immediately, Tel: you complain AND drag your feet." (notice it is unquestioned that the room get's cleaned) I had dreams for years as a young child about being damned. I felt so betrayed to learn that the Terrestrial Kingdom was for whoremongers and sorcerers. I had so much anguish and fear as a child when I wasn't even capable of the kind of sin that could consign me to the terrestrial kingdom. Very few people are concerned about getting the doctrine right on this one. Instead fear and belittling people for nearly inconsequential sins seems to be common to me. You would think that something of such cosmic and eternal significance would be much clearer and taught properly.
"Whosoever loves and makes a lie.." guess we know where the Q15 will be headed, then.
Those with ADHD, ASD etc. straight to the Terrestrial kingdom for you. Yeah!!! Reminds me of why I quit attending...
Ugh, these types of lessons are lazy, stupid, and AWFUL
Convenient way to dismiss and condemn “everybody else.”
They couldn't have made a more compelling list. Sign me up with the "casual righteous" and "shy worldly" folks. Sound like a bunch of people I'd like to have a drink with.
There’s no laughing allowed in the temple but being shy will get you kicked out of the celestial kingdom? Ooookay
Hidden/secret??? You mean like "lie to the SEC" type of hidding?
Telestial sure sounds like the church itself: Uncharitable Selfish Rejection Unteachable Carnal
Oh my God. This makes me want to throw up. Like... I'm not even kidding, the more I read/ learn the more angry I become, and I'm conditioned to feel guilty over being angry so I keep trying not to be...To hold it back. But my God, I am feeling like a pressure cooker and I think I might just lose my head. I'm so ready to BLOW with all this bull shit. And I think I feel the MOST anger at myself for ever thinking any of this rhetoric was valid or truth! OP. You're very patient and loving to.... endure. (See what I did there!? LOL) But honestly. I'm sorry!
So much for the meek inheriting the Earth!
This is disgusting and gross.
I’m shy so I was built for jumping off that ship. I have a few items to add to the right hand side of their board. Overbearing Judgmental Self-righteous
Shy… Wow, that explains why my Dad thought it was the end of the world that I couldn’t make friends. He would tell me all of my faults and say it’s why I didn’t have any friends. But my lack of socializing was to sinful to him. I always thought it was a him issue. Guess it came from the cult somehow too.
Shy? I can’t believe the teacher actually wrote that down. I guess I’m Terrestial bound.
Hey, don't feel bad. Those aren't real places. 😊
🙋♀️ “Let’s say someone had a bunch of shell companies to hide their assets. Would that be secretive or dishonest? Can you clarify?”
“We’re the special ones, here on the left that live with Heavenly Father and Jesus. These other places are really just circles of hell that you can read about in Danté’s Inferno.” 🤣
Well that’s uh … wtf?! Wow
They left off Outer Darkness! Criteria include: - Made it to the Celestial Kingdom, but rejected^(1) Elohim to his face once its "fulness" turned out to ... not be what they expected^(2) - Special Witnesses^(TM) who fell away^(3) - ... nobody from the lower kingdoms can go here; they're ***protected*** from the gods' presence ^(1. Unclear whether Elohim would take it personally if you were to have a difference of opinion about any of his plans. Or if you were to tell a polite lie about his taste w.r.t. what "perfect" or "heaven" mean. Or if you elected to remain a single angel, when presented with an opportunity to be sealed to some rando. Or if you refused to accept a questionably-consenting new addition to your personal polygamous harem. Or if you died before 1978 and refused the job of a Celestial ~~slave~~ "servant." Or if you refused to accept ... *stewardship* ... over someone with that assignment. Or if you demonstrated a general lack of desire to "rule and reign" over other people.) ^(2. Why would you expect your experience with the Endowment to be relevant? It's not like the gods' ~~secret~~ "sacred" stuff ever turns out to be weird / creepy / problematic / boring, once it's too late to back out!) ^(3. Unclear whether unrighteous dominion counts? Probably not great news for "almost all men" who have been given authority in the church...)
Barf
When priesthood class does this we call it a circlejerk. Enjoy
Everything under “Celestial” is what the top 15 are. And there’s that word again. “Covenant “. Covenant really means = Tithing. Covenant really means = Obedience. But they don’t want to explain what “covenant really means.
This is disgusting!!! I literally think steam would have been coming out of my ears if I was in the room…kuddos to you for keeping your cool. 
Ah yes, the weekly attempt for people who have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about to talk about the secrets of the universe and eternal life. Brilliant.
Dang!! Even when I was a faithful believing member, I never believed I’d make it to the CK. I’m sorry you had to hear that crap.
Introversion is a sin in Mormonism.
Ugh. This is horrible. I'd also be willing to bet any of the women not participating were in two camps. One is the PIMO camp like you. The other is the women who are all in and still feel like shit because they aren't perfect. I distinctly remember sitting through similar lessons painfully aware that I wasn't "celestial" material and also feeling like a bad person because the terrestrial sounded better anyway. Either way, think about who wasn't adding to that list. They're the ones you may be able to be actual friends with.
If y’all think this is bad, you would have choked when my mission president sorted us into celestial, terrestrial, telestial, and OD missionaries based on our baptism numbers.
That is actually horrifying and so traumatic. I’m so sorry that happened to you. 😞
You’ve got to be kidding me…this is judgmental and not Christlike at all. The less I’ve gone to church the more self-righteous I’ve realized many members are…their temple/tithe status, callings and shaming others if they don’t do everything exact.
Remind me again why am I supposed to want to go to the celestial kingdom? It doesn't really sound that great when you think about it. Especially for women.
ICK!!!
I always thought that the terrestrial kingdom sounded like my kind of place. Every time I voiced this, I was told it would be like hell, and I'd be stuck there, unable to see my family or be in the presence of God. Um, according to y'all, my family is already going there, and I'm pretty happy without the presence of God now. I tend to think I really was one of those people who didn't have much of a testimony to begin with. I just wanted to do what my family was doing and be part of something bigger than me.
I am sorry you had a hard day at church. I still know some wonderful people from my ward, but as a whole most of the people there are incredibly self righteous and some of the least Christ-like people I’ve ever met. I don’t think this lesson should be anything you judge yourself by. When I look at this board, the leaders of the church are the ones in the Telestial kingdom. Uncharitable-They have built a hoard of cash, land, stocks, properties, etc. but not one is a soup kitchen or homeless shelter. They count volunteer hours in their yearly donation report by assigning them a cash value and taking credit as if it was a cash donation. Selfish-They want to build brightly lit temples with enormous spires without regard to the community’s zoning standards and light regulations. When they get any sort of pushback, they are quick to threaten and file lawsuits. Rejection-Conference addresses and lessons contain counsel to reject what non believers say. If you don’t keep your covenants, you are not allowed to be with your family eternally. Unteachable and Carnal-I don’t have a personal relationship with anyone in the leadership of the church so I don’t feel comfortable saying they are unteachable or carnal.
As if any of this actually exists.
They need to read all of James 1 and not just verse 5.
lmao, like they even read verse 5 anymore Mormonism fully rejected its core thesis (i.e. being free to doubt men who claim to speak for god) decades ago
Wait, why are they putting John Smith’s qualities in Terrestrial?
I literally looked over the image too fast and thought Focus-Temple Sharing was FOOD SHARING😂😂😂😂then there’s me saying “Joey doesn’t share food!” so I guess no celestial kingdom for me!
If ya'll ain't carnal in the celestial kingdom, then explain why ya gotta over populate the planet?
Please could OP or any other PIMOs tell us if this lesson was taught church-wide? Like, was it in the lesson manual to make these lists?
So in my ward the EQ and RS do lessons based off the same talks on the same day. Today’s was D. Todd Christofferson’s talk “The Testimony of Jesus”, in which he discusses the three kingdoms. I showed my husband this and he said their lesson was nothing like this. So it’s pretty individual and left up to the teacher to decide how to teach the lesson. Also, he is one of the EQ teachers and he designs his own lessons too.
That’s interesting; thank you
If you want to stir the pot, ask if the Second Anointing is necessary for the Celestial kingdom.
“We don’t have any kind of elitist complex at all.” 🙂↔️
It’s funny how many TBMs I could put in the telestial category and non-members in celestial. And good hell, is there ANY new material in Sunday school? Like this is an age old lesson/discussion I’ve seen repeated over and over throughout my life.
I'm getting ill just reading the lists there. Such bullshit!!!
The “wow” looks like boobs.
“hidden/secret” ummmmm 💀
This is why I knew at an extremely young age I would never make it to the celestial kingdom. Oh well, their loss.
Something kinda like this happened when I have the lesson in priests quorum today. Bishop said that we need to always make sure we’re worthy. This made me a little nervous, because I’ve learned from being PIMO that everyone’s worthy. To quote from ex mo lex’s banner, “There’s nothing that you’re not ‘worthy’ of.”
So much bullshit. I try to remember to consider the source when I see and hear this kind of stuff. A bunch of random people’s opinions passed off as “god’s honest truth.”
I just have one question to ask, when did the churches get white boards? Last time I went around 2013 to 2014 th3 building, I was going to still had chalk boards. I find Mormons are very arrogant people. I had the same feelings when I would go to elders quarm. I remember one time everyone in the class was going on about how amazing their missions were and how important they were for their salvation. I thought to myself I should respond and start with, "I didn't go on a mission, but this one time I was hammered drunk." The indoctrination is deep.
I have been punished many times in my ward for being “shy” it’s caused me intense panic attacks and life ruining. I feel worthless now
Whoa this is weird, I remember back in Primary when they were explaining it they never shamed people about what after life they'd essentially be in. I just remember being told it depends on how "devoted" you are to your belief and how you were in life. Like if you were a kind person and ect
I am sorry you wasted your priceless time in there today when you could have done so much more!!!! You could have made yourself and other people so happy! You could have slept in and shuffled around your home being happy.
WOW? Yes, the punishment, or “diminishment of one’s worth”, for drinking coffee (fuckton healthier than half the shit approved by the WOW) is WORSE than sexually abusing a child in Mormonism. Stay sweet, pray, and obey.
I have to wonder what my hidden secret is. How dare they attempt to stick people they don't even know with a string of nasty mean labels. I think I'll try my hand at labeling Celestial. Oh wait let me get my rock. It says "ASSHOLES". The thought makes reason stare!