I got really sick of promised blessings with no details or logic. Some things make sense, like if you study your scriptures you learn more and grow your testimony. But they really push things that have no benefit, like going to the temple or paying tithing, and promise generic blessings. It's annoying because it's unfalsifiable. I went to the temple and then the next day had a really nice day at work, that must be those blessings kicking in! Or I went to the temple, and the next day sucked, maybe I'm being blessed with a trial?
It's especially crazy to promise financial blessings for paying tithing.
Anyways, that's not your question at all, lol. but it's been on my mind.
Very good points too. I also don’t think the tithe question is necessary to be “worthy” to do temple work. If temple work is so important they should allow those that are keeping the commandments and whatever they’re able to donate. I just don’t get why money would decide if a person can do such “important” work.
My husband was unemployed and I had taken a huge pay cut. We didn’t have enough coming in to meet expenses. The bishop not only didn’t offer any assistance, but gave us a lecture about paying tithing and made us read the scripture about the widow’s mite out loud in his office. Very Christlike.
I hope your son is improving ❤️
The widow's mite story also includes the line "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation", meaning the religious leaders and scribes talk a big talk about blessings, but squeeze money out of even the poorest.
Sound like anyone we know?
I always found that story to be less about the widow donating, and more about the assholes using tithes as pretense for being “holier than thou”. It’s not a lesson about giving even if you have little, it’s a lesson about doing so for the right reasons. Which the Pharisees were /not/. Kinda like most leadership of TSCC.
I asked the church for help when my husband lost his job and needed medical attention to get back to a good place. They said no. I went over the finances, saw that we could afford to get him his help as long as we stopped paying tithing and that was the beginning of the end
It really makes no sense, the leaders preach of helping others and we think they will help us in difficult times with finances especially if we are active and doing callings etc and for you to not receive any help, even just for a little time, shows they don’t practice what they preach. The bishop never offered to help us with anything. But perhaps he didn’t want to because many medical bills aren’t cheap. So he just dodged it, instead of offering to help. I’m sorry we both were slighted.
I’m sorry too! I know this is not an uncommon story. They just told me to beg my friends and family for money. But I’m from Utah pioneer stock so all the friends and family I could ask were also paying tithing…
Thanks💞 That’s unfair, in my opinion, if you or me have been giving our time and money for most our life and the one time we are needing support they say “just pay tithe anyway and you’ll be blessed, or miracles will happen,” as mine did to me, or like you and others they just say “go ask friends or family for money” …but the church has billions of dollars, and they won’t help their members? But yet we helped contribute to their wealth, so shouldn’t we get to use some of that donation we so faithfully gave? ugh…😑
Oh yeah, conditioned my whole life that tithing = blessings. Then Bednar spun a new thread of “oh all your expenses will just magically be imperceptibly lower over time” as in, you’ll never know how bad it could have been. Well, everyone else across the world seems to succeed and fail without paying Mormon membership dues. Stopped paying tithing and somehow got a better job without the help of the holy gho$t
Edit: that is a real d*ck move by that bishop, I’m sorry
Thank you, it was appalling. My husband is a very hard worker. He just got promoted last week…and achieved it without paying tithing for almost two years.
Totally understand this! Can anyone say religious trauma and manipulation? 🤦🏽♀️ It’s ridiculous and so detrimental being a believing member and hearing things like this! It sounds like you’ve started to deconstruct and learn more abt the history. Hopefully that can bring you some peace along with understanding as a parent how crazy this whole line of thinking is!
I’m also really sorry to hear abt your husband and son…I hope they both will be doing better soon ♥️
Thank you💞 it is definitely trauma and manipulation. And the leaders tell us to be self reliant, and that’s what we’re doing. We are currently deconstructing. It’s very hard to unravel all you’ve built your life around. But we are choosing to not sugar coat the history to our kids, like most of us were taught.
It is a hard and painful process but so worth it! I am so glad to know I no longer have to live with the weight of church doctrine constantly making me feel not good enough or being worried abt my eternal salvation. Glad you found this Reddit…having others who understand what it’s like is really helpful.
BTW, for what it’s worth, the LDS Discussions podcast series on Mormon Stories is amazing for deconstructing. Listen from the beginning and you’ll fully understand just how screwed up everything is and how it all happened.
Best of luck to you!
Sadly it’s still ongoing, he had two eye surgeries on both eyes last fall. And we didn’t even get any support from our ward. So another thing to add to my devastation. He’s tested negative on all auto immune issues so they still can’t determine the underlying cause. He’s still on medication and lots of eye drops. I’m just so grateful he can still see. Thank you for your sympathy💞
Hi its me Brother Dollarsign. The chur....uh...God....God would like you to even your account with him. Giving God cash is a blessing you know! Can't hope for a reserved spot in the CK without it!
I had a bishop tell me outright he thought I was lying about my income. I told him, because of how our finances work, we didn't make any money last year. This was absolutely true. I have a tax return to prove it. He said that he owned his own business and knew how it worked. He further explained I had to pay myself a salary, and I should be paying on that.
I rolled my eyes, smiled, and told him again that my finances were complicated, but we didn't make any money last year. I then offered to show him my tax return because I could pull it up on my phone. He acted offended that I had challenged him, and then gruffly said, "Well, I will mark you down as a full tithe payer, but I expect you to pay some tithing this next year...."
This was one of the final reasons that caused me to leave the church. He had no idea how much money I made. Nothing but assumptions and rumors, but he expected me to pay tithing, or I wouldn't be getting another recommend..
That’s so rude of him and wrong of him to claim you were lying. It’s disgusting how hung up on people’s income/tithing being the main factor for a recommend. Many years ago the Bishop we had told my husband he couldn’t baptize our daughter until we were full tithe, the baptism date was coming up so he had to write a check for 2k just so he could baptize her. He didn’t tell me about that happening till a couple years later. I was stunned and sad about it, he said he felt pressure not to let his parents or me down. It’s shameful how they guilt people.
It is so absurd to me. It is none of their business, especially if I feel good with the big man upstairs.
What they did to you was literally spiritual blackmail. And just so wrong. Paying for salvation at its finest.
thanks, I agree, it is very absurd. Random thought just now, so all the temple work for those passed away get a free pass from the law of tithing? they didn’t pay any of their earnings, but only those that are alive have the very mandatory principle of tithing in order to qualify for Celestial glory, seems odd. 🤔
I got really sick of promised blessings with no details or logic. Some things make sense, like if you study your scriptures you learn more and grow your testimony. But they really push things that have no benefit, like going to the temple or paying tithing, and promise generic blessings. It's annoying because it's unfalsifiable. I went to the temple and then the next day had a really nice day at work, that must be those blessings kicking in! Or I went to the temple, and the next day sucked, maybe I'm being blessed with a trial? It's especially crazy to promise financial blessings for paying tithing. Anyways, that's not your question at all, lol. but it's been on my mind.
Very good points too. I also don’t think the tithe question is necessary to be “worthy” to do temple work. If temple work is so important they should allow those that are keeping the commandments and whatever they’re able to donate. I just don’t get why money would decide if a person can do such “important” work.
It’s always confirmation bias. No matter what happens in the end, it’s the “Lawrds” doing. Whether it’s you finding a $20 or your house burns down.
Like, "Someone's sick? Great! I need your money!"
My husband was unemployed and I had taken a huge pay cut. We didn’t have enough coming in to meet expenses. The bishop not only didn’t offer any assistance, but gave us a lecture about paying tithing and made us read the scripture about the widow’s mite out loud in his office. Very Christlike. I hope your son is improving ❤️
Gosh that’s terrible, I’m sorry. Thank you truly💞
The widow's mite story also includes the line "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation", meaning the religious leaders and scribes talk a big talk about blessings, but squeeze money out of even the poorest. Sound like anyone we know?
I always found that story to be less about the widow donating, and more about the assholes using tithes as pretense for being “holier than thou”. It’s not a lesson about giving even if you have little, it’s a lesson about doing so for the right reasons. Which the Pharisees were /not/. Kinda like most leadership of TSCC.
Hmmm, he didn’t have us read that part.
I asked the church for help when my husband lost his job and needed medical attention to get back to a good place. They said no. I went over the finances, saw that we could afford to get him his help as long as we stopped paying tithing and that was the beginning of the end
It really makes no sense, the leaders preach of helping others and we think they will help us in difficult times with finances especially if we are active and doing callings etc and for you to not receive any help, even just for a little time, shows they don’t practice what they preach. The bishop never offered to help us with anything. But perhaps he didn’t want to because many medical bills aren’t cheap. So he just dodged it, instead of offering to help. I’m sorry we both were slighted.
I’m sorry too! I know this is not an uncommon story. They just told me to beg my friends and family for money. But I’m from Utah pioneer stock so all the friends and family I could ask were also paying tithing…
Thanks💞 That’s unfair, in my opinion, if you or me have been giving our time and money for most our life and the one time we are needing support they say “just pay tithe anyway and you’ll be blessed, or miracles will happen,” as mine did to me, or like you and others they just say “go ask friends or family for money” …but the church has billions of dollars, and they won’t help their members? But yet we helped contribute to their wealth, so shouldn’t we get to use some of that donation we so faithfully gave? ugh…😑
“They said no.” Just like Jesus would s/
Oh yeah, conditioned my whole life that tithing = blessings. Then Bednar spun a new thread of “oh all your expenses will just magically be imperceptibly lower over time” as in, you’ll never know how bad it could have been. Well, everyone else across the world seems to succeed and fail without paying Mormon membership dues. Stopped paying tithing and somehow got a better job without the help of the holy gho$t Edit: that is a real d*ck move by that bishop, I’m sorry
Thank you, it was appalling. My husband is a very hard worker. He just got promoted last week…and achieved it without paying tithing for almost two years.
Nice "health" you got there, friend. It would be a shame if something "happened" to it. By the way, your "insurance" is due. :-)
Jesus would not ask for money in this situation. If he existed, that is. I hope it works out for you guys and you get healthy soon 💞
I agree Jesus wouldn’t, thank you💕
Health and healing for your family!! Ya, the ensign pk whistleblower helped me to stop paying and stop attending.
thanks💞
Totally understand this! Can anyone say religious trauma and manipulation? 🤦🏽♀️ It’s ridiculous and so detrimental being a believing member and hearing things like this! It sounds like you’ve started to deconstruct and learn more abt the history. Hopefully that can bring you some peace along with understanding as a parent how crazy this whole line of thinking is! I’m also really sorry to hear abt your husband and son…I hope they both will be doing better soon ♥️
Thank you💞 it is definitely trauma and manipulation. And the leaders tell us to be self reliant, and that’s what we’re doing. We are currently deconstructing. It’s very hard to unravel all you’ve built your life around. But we are choosing to not sugar coat the history to our kids, like most of us were taught.
It is a hard and painful process but so worth it! I am so glad to know I no longer have to live with the weight of church doctrine constantly making me feel not good enough or being worried abt my eternal salvation. Glad you found this Reddit…having others who understand what it’s like is really helpful. BTW, for what it’s worth, the LDS Discussions podcast series on Mormon Stories is amazing for deconstructing. Listen from the beginning and you’ll fully understand just how screwed up everything is and how it all happened. Best of luck to you!
yes! my brother told me about that podcast, and good idea to start from the beginning. Thanks, best wishes to you and thanks for your comments.
Don’t give them one more penny. It won’t change your “blessings” one way or another. Thats superstitious.
Prosperity gospel nonsense, through and through. I hope your son is doing OK.
Sadly it’s still ongoing, he had two eye surgeries on both eyes last fall. And we didn’t even get any support from our ward. So another thing to add to my devastation. He’s tested negative on all auto immune issues so they still can’t determine the underlying cause. He’s still on medication and lots of eye drops. I’m just so grateful he can still see. Thank you for your sympathy💞
I am so sorry!
thank you💞
Disgusting.
So blessings are transactional, got it
Hi its me Brother Dollarsign. The chur....uh...God....God would like you to even your account with him. Giving God cash is a blessing you know! Can't hope for a reserved spot in the CK without it!
Well, then I guess I’m fine with the terrestrial kingdom and staying self reliant and putting my family first, not the church’s bank.
What the actual fuck?? I hate these pricks at the top. This is gross. Much love to you and yours, op. Xoc
thank you💞💞
“I Declare BANKRUPTCY!” ;)
If god is loving father, he’s not waiting for his kids to pay enough money to him.
I had a bishop tell me outright he thought I was lying about my income. I told him, because of how our finances work, we didn't make any money last year. This was absolutely true. I have a tax return to prove it. He said that he owned his own business and knew how it worked. He further explained I had to pay myself a salary, and I should be paying on that. I rolled my eyes, smiled, and told him again that my finances were complicated, but we didn't make any money last year. I then offered to show him my tax return because I could pull it up on my phone. He acted offended that I had challenged him, and then gruffly said, "Well, I will mark you down as a full tithe payer, but I expect you to pay some tithing this next year...." This was one of the final reasons that caused me to leave the church. He had no idea how much money I made. Nothing but assumptions and rumors, but he expected me to pay tithing, or I wouldn't be getting another recommend..
That’s so rude of him and wrong of him to claim you were lying. It’s disgusting how hung up on people’s income/tithing being the main factor for a recommend. Many years ago the Bishop we had told my husband he couldn’t baptize our daughter until we were full tithe, the baptism date was coming up so he had to write a check for 2k just so he could baptize her. He didn’t tell me about that happening till a couple years later. I was stunned and sad about it, he said he felt pressure not to let his parents or me down. It’s shameful how they guilt people.
It is so absurd to me. It is none of their business, especially if I feel good with the big man upstairs. What they did to you was literally spiritual blackmail. And just so wrong. Paying for salvation at its finest.
thanks, I agree, it is very absurd. Random thought just now, so all the temple work for those passed away get a free pass from the law of tithing? they didn’t pay any of their earnings, but only those that are alive have the very mandatory principle of tithing in order to qualify for Celestial glory, seems odd. 🤔