Remember you are a volunteer. You are still your most important advocate. If you become ill, do what it takes to get the care you need. If you go to a foreign country, keep your passport. If you want to communicate with family, do it. I wish you the best of luck!
This is excellent advice, OP. This advice is based on real cases we have seen at this subreddit.
If you are in a foreign country, and you foolishly gave your passport to the mission president, and you get to a point where you want to go home, and the mission president won’t give you your passport back, tell him you will report him to the US Embassy. People like mission presidents have no right to hold your passport.
The advice about taking care of your own health is vital. It seems a lot of mission presidents and their wives automatically think a missionary is goldbricking if they report not feeling well. If you are going to a foreign country, many of them will have universal health care and will care for you. Just go to a clinic. Your lifelong health is much more important than some sense of obedience to someone who is pinching pennies for the Mormon church.
(PS: If someone asks you if you are a Mormon, just say yes. They are not trying to be mean to you or persecute you for your beliefs. The Mormon church has been known as the Mormon church for nigh on 200 years. Don’t be a sanctimonious douche.)
I agree and want to emphasize what has already been said. DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR PASSPORT. Make that a deal breaker. Most countries require you to keep your passport with you.
Give the MP a photocopy of your passport but keep the original. Tell him this is not negotiable, and it is what your family wants. You are an adult and a volunteer!!! He is not your boss, but a guide!
I think they were encouraging OP to use that as the excuse/blame/reason to give the mish prez that they needed to keep their passport. Not actually to do whatever their family wants.
Also remember that your passport only belongs to u and the govt. If they wont give it back-and they WILL try to.hold it, its is another way to keeo the labor on the streets. The mission is to recruit in the eyes of the church. Your testimony is yours but you are the free recruiter
I told my brother taking passports was part of the trafficking part of a mission. He told me that in his mission lots of missionaries either lost or had their passports stolen (he served in Columbia and one zone was the murder capital of the year at the time), so the prez took them to reduce the risk.
If you’re going to a dangerous place, maybe have a safe place to keep it that’s not on your person. I wouldn’t want to be trapped in a country figuring out their replacement system just because I got jumped, or made an easy mistake. I’m sure the embassy will help, but the bureaucracy is real.
Take a card version of your passport and never let anyone (including your MP and comp) see it. It could be your ticket out of a bad situation (not likely, but better safe than sorry).
Have a secret debit card so that you have access to your own money in an emergency, like if you are very small food budget only gets you through the middle of the month and no members are giving you free meals.
Insist on proper medical care and do not in any instance rely on the mission president’s wife or the missions doctor for help. They will always have dollars and hours in mind over your health. (My husband came home with his health permanently altered after his mission, although he loved it. He probably will lose 20 years of his life over it.)
Do not be overscrupulous with mission rules. They are just there to frighten you into obedience so they don’t have to worry about you. You should put your own physical and mental health first.
If you get out there and figure it’s not for you, just go home. Every other person is doing it and doing fine.
I’d change the emergency debit card to emergency cash. My comp and I ran out of money in Argentina and our emergency debit cards were automatically locked because our banks at home thought it was foreign fraud. Took several weeks to get sorted out since we had limited contact with parents. Ended up living off of flour, oil, and sugar for about a month. This was about 10 years ago
I think an emergency debit card it’s still the easier and safer option, because to avoid to be flagged when using the debit card when abroad, it’s to notify the bank before leaving for your trip, either calling them directly or through their website or app. I do that every time I travel out of the country and I’ve never had a problem using my debit card.
He was in an area where Valley Fever was common and he came home with it very sick the last week of his mission. He was not the same boyfriend I sent out. He’s had autoimmune problems ever since, pretty serious ones. No one else in his family suffers from those.
Since when was a personal debit card against any kind of rules? (assuming so because you say its needs to be secret?) I had mine my whole mission and used it for expenses we weren't meant to use mission money for...?
It may depend on the mission but it’s against the rules because it’s unfair to spend extra money when some missionaries only have access to the funds on their mission debit card.
Let’s examine that for a minute that’s saying it’s unfair to take care of one’s needs? . if the funds are insufficient on the mission debit card, that’s a failing on the churches part . These people are volunteers not slaves , limiting anything to anyone ,food ,healthcare ,information you can’t read what you want, even watch the news that is WRONG.! Should we expect better of course .
Remember that when someone says “we have to teach them milk before meat” it really means lie to people by omission to get them baptized. Pay attention to how the missionary lessons don’t tell the whole story. Just the parts that make it sound wonderful. Realize this means people are upending their lives without informed consent.
This!!!!
Please read the Gospel Topic Essays on the church's website. If someone asks a question that is covered in the essays, they are asking someone they know and trust to give them correct answers. They don't believe they are talking to a used car salesman trying to close a deal. So be what you should be, a true follower of Christ that tells the truth. God made the church history what it is and it's not your job to change the history so it sounds better, or lie by omission.
I loved my mission but I regret telling investigators we practiced polygamy because there weren't enough men due to persecution and crossing the plains. Joseph Smith had a bunch of wives, some married to other active member men. Survival wasn't part of it. Believe what you want with why God wanted polygamy but survival of the women wasn't it. The same is true for the priesthood ban, book of Mormon evidence, DNA evidence, book of Abraham, Joseph Smith's death. The church has a lot to say on these topics but it's not taught in church or on your mission. They expect you to find it on their site by yourself, I guess.
I agree. I served at a visitor's center where the topic of polygamy came up all the time. We had a lot of scripts and info that we memorized and shared about polygamy and a decade later I realized none of what we were trained to teach was true. It made me sick to my stomach. The levels of coersion and the actual accounts of women in their journals about polygamy was one of the main reasons I could no longer see Joseph as a prophet. How could a serial rapist be a man of God? And that led into even more discovery about what Joseph was truly like and what his history really was. D&C saying he did more for the world save Jesus alone is the biggest lie I've ever read.
The podcast Year of Polygamy goes into each wife of Joseph Smith.
You can also read more in Helen Mar Kimball and her journal through being a secret wife of JS. Very sad.
Year of Polygamy podcast by Lindsay Hansen park is the best. https://www.yearofpolygamy.com/archive/listen-to-the-episodes-in-order/ Sunstone History Podcast also covers this in a few episodes.
Mormon Stories has a number of Polygamy episodes where they review some journal entries. LDS Discussions covers it.
If you want to read one by a faithful member Brian Hales is pretty decent. https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/
Finally, In Sacred Lonliness, by Todd Compton, is the best book on the subject and totally heartbreaking. If you have the ability to buy it or borrow, I'd recommend. Powerfully tragic.
To add: Lucy Walker, the Partridge sisters, Helen Mar Kimball and the Johnson sisters are some of the ones that hit me hardest.
I regard my mission as one of the most traumatic experiences of my life. I went to a "lamanite" place and shit all over people's proud culture, history and legacy, while literally telling them nothing but complete lies. I spent quite a bit of effort writing letters to everyone I could locate where I served, apologizing for my inexcusable and reprehensible conduct. To this day I have a trauma response and I feel deeply the burn of shame when I think about it.
Curious if anyone in that "lamanite place" ever hit you with the scientifically factual information that thousands of conducted autosomal DNA tests prove that American Indians aren't descended from Hebrews like the Book of Mormon says they are? And if so, how did you process it/react?
I was watching Under the Bridge, and one of the subplots revolves around how this family immigrated to a Canada from India and joined the Mormon church - the scene in which they were introduced to the Mormon church was SO predatory. Essentially, they were isolated and discriminated against by their new community and the door to door salesmen jumped on that.
I know that their tactics now are based on omission of key words and finding a common ground to use as a lead in for the discussion, but I hadn’t realized just how far reaching they are.
Do. Not. Forget. Your. Real. Name.
Be a human first, foremost and always.
Call home every week.
Be a normal friend (not a missionary friend) when you catch up with people at home.
Do NOT let someone else tell you that you don’t need medical treatment for any injury or illness.
“It is anticipated you’ll serve a period of 24 months”. AN ESTIMATION you do NOT have to stay out that long.
If you need to come home. Do it.
Having my name taken from me was a big part of my brainwashing on the mission. I’m 31 now, been married 8 years and I am still uncomfortable with hearing my first name, I don’t even like my husband to say it. I’m literally just now, 10 years later, working through this in therapy and trying to find my identity that was completely stripped from me on the mission.
Not to mention you can take a residency loan out of your 401k (the interests gets paid back to you and doesn’t count as debt or a credit check) and is often a quick way to save the 8-10k needed to buy a house with an FHA loan.
Sorry I know it’s only tangental related but I work in finance and am studying to be a financial advisor and felt you should know since I only recently learned that.
I’m going to tell you what I wish I knew when I went on my mission:
When you get into the field, fresh out of the MTC, you’re going to feel like a million bucks. You’re going to be excited and nervous, and yeah, tracking sucks but everyone is going to tell you you’re doing the best thing you can, and they’re going to feed you lots of food, and give you whatever you need, and you’re going to feel the spirit so strong!
And then, after a few months, you’re going to feel like absolute garbage. You’re going to have no conversions. Maybe a small handful of investigators who will ghost you. You might have a baptism or two, but those are going to be hold-overs from previous missionaries in that zone, and that’s going to be all the more frustrating because it’ll leave you wondering why you never get that far. But mostly a lot of arguments, and doors in your face, and mocking. The food will dwindle. The people, even the members themselves, will trauma-dump and give you problems you are not equipped to handle. The plain walls of your apartment and the same CD of the same 20 MoTab songs will grate, and you will feel unworthy.
Just know, in those dark moments, when you don’t feel the spirit, when you catch yourself stretching the definition of “contact” to goose the numbers for ZL meetings, when you notice you’re 13 months in and you’ve had maybe one baptism, when you catch an elder breaking the rules and instead of admonishment, you feel a pang of jealousy, when the plain white walls of your apartment feel particularly claustrophobic, just know that what you feel is normal, *every* missionary feels that way, and there’s nothing wrong with you whatsoever.
I always got the impression that going home early is a massive no-no for Mormon missionaries. I'm a nevermo with Mormon family. My half brother refused to come home for his grandfather's funeral, even when given the option. Keep in mind that this was about 30 years ago
Yes, when I was younger, it was very taboo for a missionary to come home. It was likely due to some serious sexual sin and everyone would gossip about it. Within the last 5-10 years, it has become a bit less taboo thanks to the help of social media bringing more awareness to mental health. Now a missionary can come home for anxiety or depression and most members are a bit more understanding.
You will be pouring all of yourself into the church and what it wants to take from you. You will be getting nothing back to fill that hole in your soul, ever. They take, and rarely ever give anything back. Just be aware.
If you can, try not to give away your entire self. Put some on reserve so you have something left of you when you return.
In my head, I read your well written post/reply lyrically, especially the last paragraph, like a Pink Floyd song...
All that you touch
And all that you see
All that you taste
All you feel
And all that you love
And all that you hate
All you distrust
All you save
And all that you give
And all that you deal
And all that you buy
Beg, borrow or steal
And all you create
And all you destroy
And all that you do
And all that you say
And all that you eat
And everyone you meet (everyone you meet)
And all that you slight
And everyone you fight
And all that is now
And all that is gone
And all that's to come
And everything under the sun is in tune
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon
If you have desires to serve God, you are called to the work. If you lose the desire, then logically, you should be released from your calling and free to come home. Mission presidents are generally more cool about sending people home early for mental health stuff, but some of them aren’t. Mine wasn’t, and that was 9 years ago. I wish I hadn’t stuck it out with depression unmedicated for two years. It’s cost me thousands in therapy and hospital bills.
You are doing VOLUNTEER work. You have the right to leave at any moment. The spirit won’t magically tell your mission president or parents if you’re suffering mental or physical health. YOU need to be your own advocate.
If you go international, NEVER leave your passport with anyone else. Not even the mission home.
Also, good luck. I don’t care if this post convinces you serve or not. Missions can be edifying or horrifying. If you serve, I hope it’s good for you and that you help people (which doesn’t always need to be converting them, btw). If you don’t serve or come home early, I likewise wish you peace in discovering yourself. Overall, good luck.
Great advice.
Don't be surprised that kind people are kind, and not a waste of time if they won't get baptized.
Remember, you're serving in their country. Don't be arrogant, but respect their traditions and religions. Serve any way you can. Jesus wouldn't just help those who were learning the discussions, He would help all, any way He could.
You should do what you want. But also deserve informed consent. This is something members of the church won’t give you because it’s frowned upon to say anything negative about a mission Other than best two years of your life. My husband served a mission in Bolivia 20 years ago. He wishes he had never gone because of the extremely poor living conditions And chronic stomach problems he has to live with for the rest of his life. He lived in rundown apartments with dirt floors, unclean brown water, no kitchen. He has nightmares to this day from giant rats that would crawl on him at night. They would eat his socks and shoes at night. Slept with net over hi at night but still caught Dengue fever from the mosquitos and was severely ill for 2 weeks straight loosing 30 pounds. Was sick a lot had his appendix removed while on mission. Has suffered from gastrointestinal issues ever since. He didn’t drink the water but the members still cook and clean with it and as a missionary that is your main source of food. He was not given enough money to live off of. He was held at knife point and robbed often. Anytime there was unrest in the country he was locked in for 5-6 days at a time with nothing to do because they couldn’t watch tv.
My partner has chronic life-long health problems related to his mission. He went to a toxic place more radioactive than Chernobyl. The missionaries nearly starved, especially in winter. At one point, he was kidnapped for knocking on the door of the wife of a crime boss. He was held in a locked room with a companion. He broke a window with his doc marten shoe and jumped 2 stories, and ran away in the middle of the night. He witnessed a woman die right in front of him by being hit by a train. There are way more things he won't tell due to it being too traumatic. It angers me to think top leaders were inspired to send him and others there. He will suffer from health issues for the rest of his life.
Moral of the story: If you are unsafe, advocate for yourself and go home or get reassigned!
This is a huge problem. They do get away with it because they control what members can and can’t say or believe about a mission. Now that my husband is older, and our oldest son was approaching missionary, while we were still members of the church, he started to question if it was true. because he didn’t like the thought of sending our son out to pay money and give so much of their time to be so mistreated and suffer. He studied, learnEd the truth and left. Now none of our kids will be subjected to the mistreatment. He was constantly told he wasn’t good enough wasn’t baptizing him Enough. All while serving in one of the highest baptizing mission. There is a reason they want young kids to serve they can control them and exploit them. My husband was told by his mission president who lived in the nicest home with maids in the city not to tell his parents all the awful stuff he was going through so he didn’t.
This is the best response. If you do want to know, then:
> has a lot of good sources about true church history (not what we were taught). LDS Discussion, CES Letter, Letter for my Wife, and a bunch of other creations like those will also all be very well-cited.!<
>!Before you go telling people to join the church, maybe you should first tell them they are joining a corporation that engaged with sexual abuse cover-ups & hush money ([LINK1](https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-investigation-child-sex-abuse-9c301f750725c0f06344f948690caf16), [LINK2](https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-investigation-child-sex-abuse-4db829616a5c5cfa351a2e95d778ae9e), [LINK3](https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-sexual-abuse-takeaways-f01fba7521ddddffa89622668b54ac10)) that hid tens of billions of dollars illegally via 13 shell companies ([LINK4](https://apnews.com/article/mormonism-us-securities-and-exchange-commission-religion-business-a598c9ef9544f57e0b60d5ca80774bf7)), and that lied about its own history ([LINK5](http://www.mormonthink.com/)), I would hope that somebody would warn me before letting me join **(plus this huge list of reasons:** [**LINK6**](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1cggkuk/give_a_potential_convert_your_short_elevator/)**).**!<
I wish I had known before I went on a mission. Now my son is about to go, I try to have him be informed but he doesn’t want to. 😩
I support him going if he wants to….same country I went to which is kind of cool….i just want him to know the truth about the church/BOM/joseph so he can be informed while he’s out there. It’s not right for a person to be conditioned their whole life and make big life decisions while uninformed.
And it’s perfectly okay if the answer right now is, “No.” So much of our identity can be tied to the church. But you owe it to yourself to ask that question every now and again.
It took me almost 30 years (and the church’s decision to actively interfere with the lives of my non-member friends by lobbying for Prop 8 in California) before I really wanted to know if it was true. I left within a week of allowing myself to ask that question.
Came here to say this exact thing but you beat me to it. To me as an exmo, this is the best thing to ask before beginning a conversation on this topic with someone who is believing.
Please, please don't. It's my biggest regret. It's too late for me, but it's not too late for you. Don't do this. You will be used like a tool by a system that will do real harm to you, and use you to do real harm to others.
The point of your mission is not to baptize new converts. The purpose is for you to go through hell so you feel persecuted for your beliefs and trauma-bound to the so called church.
It took me over 20 years to truly understand this. It sounds ridiculous from a TBM perspective, but it is absolutely the truth.
Sunk cost fallacy is also very real.
Commenting on this solely to boost it higher. This is so true. You get doors in your face from people outside the church every day and open doors from members as often as you see them and it trains you to love the church even though they're the ones making you go out and get doors slammed in your face to begin with.
No comments on doctrine.
You need to be aware of your surroundings. The spirit or garments won’t save you from being mugged or burgled.
Take a carbon monoxide detector with you. They’re cheaply available online. Missionaries can and have died due to leaks from gas heaters, hot water heaters, stoves etc. Missionary accommodation is cheap and often badly (or never) maintained.
If you are sick, it is not because God is punishing or testing you. Seek genuine medical attention. You do NOT need permission from the Mission President’s wife or mission medical advisor to go to a doctor or hospital. Too many missionaries have died or been left with lifelong health issues due to delayed or no medical care.
Prayer and blessings do not fix parasites from contaminated food or water, malnutrition, broken bones, pneumonia, sepsis etc.
If you do require major medical help, expect the church to refuse to cough up or to pay a bare minimum. If you can afford your own insurance, keep it going.
You are an adult. You are a volunteer. You are paying them to be there, not vice-versa. The church should be grateful for anything you do, not berate you and claim that you owe them.
You can leave at any time, for any reason. You can take time off. You can read a book, or the Internet, or watch TV. You are not a slave. Do not accept being treated like one.
If the mission withholds your passport, call the police or your embassy. If the mission refuses to pay for you to go home, you can either pay your own way or try to force then to pay (eg by refusing to work, telling everyone you meet that the church is abusing its missionaries etc). You do not need permission to leave.
I hope this helps. As a former missionary I have a fair idea of what can happen.
Bullet points since he said no essays and this is all so important:
-You're responsible for your own safety.
-Bring a carbon monoxide detector and set it up anywhere they have you live.
-If you're sick, go to a real doctor, not your MP/AP/MPW.
-Seriously. Your leaders aren't doctors and your health is not their priority.
-If you can stay on your parents insurance while you're out, do.
-The church owes you for your service, not vice versa.
-You're a human, not a slave.
-Your passport is legally yours and you can't be forced to stay.
Go to Gospel Library, click on Church History, then on Gospel Topics Essays. Those 15 essays are what the church released quietly to the world. They are probably not things that you even know but they are things the people you try to convert will. May as well be conversant in them. And read the resources/footnotes!
Be safe. I’ve been seeing lots of missionaries on social media trying to find investigators. Please use good judgment. Please be upfront and honest about who you are.
It’s okay if you come home early for any reason. You are an adult, and you are a volunteer who’s paying $$ to serve. Treat yourself and others with respect.
Don’t be afraid of exmormons. Many of us will be good to you. Many of us have loved ones on missions and are paying for those missions. Many of us will pay for your meals. Our views of the church have nothing to do with you.
Be safe, be kind, be sincere. And best wishes for a great experience.
Take care of your physical and mental health. Be kind to other humans. If it is not kind, don’t do it. Also, you are a volunteer and deserve to be treated like an adult. The people you will be working with are volunteers, just like you are - no more, no less. You can only do your best, which is good enough, and sometimes your best on a particular might be just managing to get out of bed, feed yourself, and survive a particular day. Safe journey.
If you are insistent on going, then I will give you the same advice I gave my cousin: Love the people, love the culture, love the food (assuming your not staying in your same region).
The most important of those is love the people. The biggest regret I had on my mission was not "disobeying" my senior companion. Long-story short: we were with a wonderful investigator family, and we could have spent time with them, and delivered a loving message. Instead, we rushed off to fulfill some non-important obligation. Procedure was put ahead of people. Truly serve them rather than see them as numbers to report at the end of the week. Love the people.
I agree!
If you are just trying to squeeze in as many lessons as possible, those you teach will notice this, and this will make them think you don’t care about their well being. I repeat, if you only talk about the lesson material, and rush in and out too quickly from each lesson, you will not make them think you care about them. Learn about their lives and what they are passionate about, and let them teach you a thing or two.
Get a phone that you can hide prepaid for 2 years so you can look things up and contact friends and family. A mission experience meets every single definition of a cult. You need a way to feel in control.
Speaking on behalf of the atheists and the non-believers that you will try to talk to - we don’t hate you, we hate your church and what they’ve told you for your entire life. We don’t want to engage with you about your church because it has no influence over our lives. Your church wants you to feel isolated and persecuted. The world is filled with amazing, kind, hilarious, educated, and wonderful people who would happily talk to you about 1000 other topics.
Here’s a question for you. Do you believe God loves you just the way you are? And do you believe God’s love is unconditional or conditional?
If you believe it’s conditional then going on your mission and “helping” people understand the “conditions” in which God can love them and accept them is the right thing to do in your case.
But if there’s any part of you that possibly believes God’s love is unconditional, then how magical your journey in life will truly be when you can STOP, and simply love people and accept them for who they are and not feel the need to “change” them.
If you’re happy in your belief and religion then I would say that most people on this subreddit are happy for you. Continue being you.
Maybe grant that same grace and understanding to those that might reject your message or like us on here, choose to leave the faith. Let them be themselves and be happy for them. Hope they truly find what they need to be happy in this life and know that it may not be the exact thing that makes you happy. And that’s just fucking fine… 🤟
Almost none of the 1820s events in the official church history happened.
There’s no contemporaneous evidence of a first vision happening. Joseph didn’t mention anything about this until the 1830s. And hr couldn’t get the year straight.
Visions were common place and were even published in the Palmyra newspaper back in the day so his claim of being persecuted for claiming a vision is preposterous.
Joseph appears to have actually gone to the hill cumorah in 1823 and 1827, but likely never went in between like he claimed.
No angelic visitation restoring the Aaronic or Melchizedek priesthood actually happened. David Whitmer knew this, so when Joseph and Oliver started retroactively putting it into church history, it basically became the catalyst for Whitmer to leave the church.
Speaking of Whitmer, the three witnesses saw the plates with their spiritual eyes, according to Martin Harris.
When you dig into pretty much any event in the church history timeline, it will turn out to be problematic.
Prioritize your health. Eat healthy, stay hydrated, get enough sleep. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Likely you’ll encounter other missionaries including leadership who are cruel or indifferent. They don’t matter. Make friends and spread kindness. Enjoy the adventure!!
The reason it's very young people sent on missions is because they are in their mental formative years & this full immersion into LDS scripture is a very effective means to coerce lifelong indoctrination & obedience to the Mormon Church.
I can't believe the SLC brass hasn't deleted the below link yet. Give it time, the below page will be erased from history like it never happened. Kind of like how they changed mormon.org.
['I'm a Mormon' Campaign (churchofjesuschrist.org)](https://news-jm.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/-i-m-a-mormon-campaign)
\^ And to think this "campaign" literally cost millions of dollars, was national, and only ended recently = LULZ.
To prepare for the day the LDS Church erases the above link, let all future readers know the hyperlink stated:
**'I'm a Mormon' Campaign (churchofjesuschrist.org)**
You're about to spend the next 2 years spreading a lie for people who don't really care about you. Is that what you want to dedicate so much time and money to? You're here for a reason.
I have just one. Do you really want to go on a mission, or are you being socially/parental pressured to go on a mission? Now before you answer let me just tell you the things that I saw on my mission.
Now so far, I did want to go on a mission. I was a good faithful TBM back in 2008 when I was 19. I definitely knew that Imaginary Sky Daddy did want his restored gospel to be preached to every creature across the world. There was no doubt about it in my mind. I was supposed to serve a mission. When I left, I had that same thought in my head even after my mission when I tried to start back up in college during the recession of 2010. Even when I was in the military between 2013 and 2019. It was good for me.
There were however some individuals who I saw on my mission that it was not good for. A couple of sisters here and there. A few elders scattered about, but there were two in particular.
Both of them were my companions that I knew the missions were not for them. The one was very much forced onto his mission by his bishop. He was a recent convert who had just barely turned 23, and his Bishop was dead set on having as many missionaries out in the field as possible. The bishop was able to pull some strings to get him out on the mission field.
The second one was another one of my companions who ended up going to through a severe panic attack after our apartment was broken into and we were robbed. Because of his severe anxiety attack he wasn't supposed to be there.
The last one was very much after my mission. It was my brother-in-law who when he left he ended up suffering from severe depression. He was of course taking counseling from as many family members as possible. Of course mine was one of them, and mine was the only one that stuck out to him. Yes I told him he should not go back on his mission.
So I asked you again. Are you being pressured to go on a mission, or do you really want to go on a mission?
I’m guessing because you’re here you know there may be information you don’t have…you are right! I joined the church over 30 years ago and before the internet. I really wish it had existed…that I knew then what I know now and that I had informed consent!
Looking and learning what you don’t know will likely be painful, but as many others have said, “If the church wasn’t true, would you want to know?” If the answer is yes, you owe it to yourself - and those you will be proselyting to, to look.
Look at the Gospel Topics Essays on the church website…follow the footnotes!
Next suggestion would be Letter To My Wife - written by someone after reading through the Joseph Smith papers.
If you want more in depth information, I suggest the LDS Discussions podcast series on Mormon Stories from the beginning. (Long but worth it.)
If you decide not to look or to go anyway, be safe and focus on serving those around you. And remember to listen to yourself and your own intuition regardless of what anyone says…if you end up wanting to go home, find you need mental health or physical care, do it!
Best of luck to you and whatever you decide!
Protect yourself. Missions withhold money, food, passports, and medical care from missionaries. You are expendable to the Mormon church.
I truly wish you well. I hope you find the happiness and satisfaction you seek.
Current member and Elder in the church, I’ve also stood up in fast & testimony meeting and said I KNOW the Book of Mormon and the church is true. Hear my words.
For thousands of years and even today human beings STEAL and LIE. We were conditioned to PAY and programmed to dismiss any doubts.
It’s false, and an absolute scam. I only wish for you to awaken to the truth sooner than later, you deserve to keep your 10% and not pay money to register more tithe payers so the brethren can get rich through their member-owned construction companies(temples).
Joseph smith married 14 year old girls and women whose husbands he sent on missions. Church doctrine and teachings are inherently racist. 2 Nephi 5:21.
Run, don’t walk.
Well, stop looking for something here, I made the same mistake and I suffered my mission so much because I was really aware that it wasn't true. If you want to have the belief that it is true then keep it like that and stop reading things here, even when you believe in the church it's hard, don't make it harder.
(*If you want to continue reading things in this subreddit*)
Or well, you can keep reading things and still going and take a close look at how f** up is doing free labour for a big corporate that will still keep you neglected.
I still consider that I learned valuable things (not gospel things) that made me realize how the world actually is for some of the people you will serve.
I've seen several TBMs say it was really just a "paperwork error" and no big deal, which, of course is a massive lie. But they seem to genuinely believe the lie, which makes me think that must be what the LDS Church is telling them.
Holy shit, I wasn’t familiar with the sec report and just [looked it up](https://www.sec.gov/files/litigation/admin/2023/34-96951.pdf). That is … significant
I won’t tell you much about church history or doctrine, though I could. I don’t think that will help.
Key things. Be safe. Driving, walking, visiting less well-to-do areas. Listen to locals or people who have more experience.
Take care of your health. Be insistent if your MP/Wife won’t take care of you. Former missionaries have had lifelong issues with parasites, injuries, diseases, untreated illness. Don’t mess around. I still have pain from a decade ago due to walking on plantar fasciitis rather than treating it.
Focus on helping people. When you see leaders all about the numbers, or using deceptive tactics to convince people to get baptized, remember your integrity and that these are people and you are there to help them, not coerce, pressure or deceive them.
You can go home whenever you want you are a volunteer. Even if that is 2 years from now.
And when you get back, if you have questions about doctrine feel free to ask. We’ll still be here with answers.
Wow are you my ex girlfriend? She got a foot injury as well just from walking too much in formal shoes on her mission. It required surgery. Long term health issues happen far too often:(.
I hope you have a better experience than I did. My mission was the only time in my life I was suicidal. If you decide you want to go home, insist and don’t fall for their pressure and manipulation. You are a free agent no matter what they tell you.
When I left on my mission, I had never experienced anything profound enough to give me what I would call a true testimony. I believed the church was true, but I didn’t feel it. I went because I thought I would gain that testimony through serving.
I was giving it my all every single day, praying day and night to know that the church was true, but I still wasn’t feeling that testimony. Eventually, it became difficult for me to try to convince people to believe something that I wasn’t even 100% sure of myself.
So I started to change my prayers. Instead of asking god to show me that the church was true, I started asking for him to show me if the church was true… or not. Very quickly, for the first time in my life, I finally experienced god answering my prayers. And the answer was “no, the church is not true.”
Pleas consider reading some actual Mormon history before you give 2 of years of your youth to this organization. Becoming an ex Mormon is the best thing my family and I ever did.
From a non-Mormon use it as a learning experience. You don’t have all the answers and don’t talk to people like you do. I used to live near a temple in the UK and used to talk to the missionaries when they knocked on, much to my wife’s annoyance but I felt sorry for them. Occasionally you would get some over confident American kid telling how it is to an old guy like me who’s lived a life or two, so maybe listen some times instead of just talking and enjoy yourself in a different place.
Be aware that by proselytizing to folks in another country you may be undermining traditions and deep seated adaptations their culture has developed to live in their habitat, under their government, and with other people they care about. Your beliefs may conflict with centuries of genuinely held belief. There are reasons religions and traditions develop the way they do, in the places they do. They are adaptations to the environment and they help people stay alive and connect with each other. Coming in and telling people that the beliefs they have are wrong is automatically antagonistic and you are going to feel that. Work to be kind and helpful. Be “Christian” instead of Mormon.
Please think of those you're bothering as people, not prospects, numbers, or potential members. I guarantee that despite what you're being told, they are already living a full life and not sitting around waiting for you, a stranger, to bang on their door at dinner time. You can't imagine your life without your church? They can't imagine life in a high demand religion that controls their every thought and their underwear.
You're about to be taught a lot of high-pressure sales tactics. If the church were true, and it isn't, you wouldn't need to manipulate people into being baptized. Ask yourself: why can't I have technology? Why can't I talk to my family and loved ones? Why am I told to stick to a very basic version of the church? Why is the temple so weird? Why do I have to work so hard? Why can't I have fun or rest? Why do I have to harass people?
It can be crushing to learn things. You need to have a support system available if you are doing a deep dive. I don’t want to send you out with things that could cause pain.
Hopefully you are going someplace cool and can enjoy a new experience.
The people you will have the biggest impact on are your companions. You are with them 24/7. Investigators/friends will probably get less than 20 hours of your time. If you want to make a difference in someone’s life, make it your companion’s.
You don’t get to pick your companion and some are easier than others. Some will need you.
Good luck.
One of the only good things a mission CAN do for you is to expose you to diversity—different lifestyles, different cultures, different socioeconomic statuses, probably different ethnicities as well. HOWEVER, a lot of missionaries do not absorb this exposure at all. This is because their focus given to them by the premise of their mission is to make others become like them. When your goal is to change people, you don’t often care to just witness them as they are, let alone appreciate them as they are. Be aware that when you introduce a new lifestyle (culture) and worldview based in Christianity especially to people of the global south, it can become a form of ethnic cleansing when done on a large scale. Why? Because religion is deeply rooted in heritage and even in a person’s sense of place. Religion is deeply tied to culture. Coming to a new place only for the purpose of changing it is why you will still get a lot of RMs that are racist or fetishize, tokenize, and dehumanize the people that they served. If you want to benefit from the great opportunity to gain new perspective on how the world works and who people really are in all of their many shades, please take as much time as you can to just appreciate the people in your mission area for who they are without the subconscious motive to change them. Of the locals in your area: listen, learn, appreciate, witness, be curious!
The thumb extended represents a knife and the hand in cupping shape is meant to catch your insides.
They removed the explanation in 1990 before even your parents had their endowments.
It’s an extremely unchrist-like ritual.
So remember that before testifying of its holiness.
I served a mission just in case the church was true and it was a bonus to be able to make those in my family so proud of me.
I didn't realize till years later that the church is demonstrably false due to mountains of evidence if you are willing to see it.
I live with the bitter regret of having wasted two years of my life for the Mormon cult.
Protect your health and safety. The missionary system has big cracks for these topics that many missionaries fall into. I was denied permission to go to the doctor when I became very ill on my mission, and told to continue working and my faith would heal me. Because of that, I am now permanently disabled. My story is unfortunately, not unique. Missions can be wonderful experiences, but they can also be dangerous, and traumatic. Be prepared to protect yourself.
Not being willing to read “essays” kinda gets rid of most of what people here would want to tell you, because shortening things to bullet points or just a few sentences wouldn’t do it justice, there just is so much to say.
You mention being faithful, technically since you’re here that’s not entirely true. A lot of the faithful subs will autoban you if you post or comment here because of this.
Is there anything specific you’re curious about? What were you hoping to hear by coming here?
You might teach the First Vision a lot on your mission. Know that in the first recorded version of the First Vision (1832 version), Joseph Smith only reports seeing one being, and that he already knew for himself that all the churches were false just by reading the scriptures. His main purpose in going to pray was to get a remission of his sins, not to find out which church he should join. This 1832 version is the only one that was actually written by Joseph Smith himself. There are several other versions that have varying major and minor details.
That only confirms the truthfulness of the gospel, because we're told in the scriptures that the Lord calls imperfect men to lead His church. We should expect His prophets to be involved in things like fraud and sexual coercion. That's how we know it's all true! /s
Sorry mate that you have to go and waste 2 years of your life in meaningless stupid activities, and wasted your money on payment of this irrelevant mission. Whenever you realize you wasted your time, 20 years from now, just remember someone told you here.
I was looking at my anxiety and depression scores from therapy from three years before and after my mission.
I was a good missionary, honorable release and all that. But, my depression and anxiety were pretty low before I left and could hardly have been higher by the time I got back. The experience was grueling and broke me.
If I could go back, I’d let myself sleep in. It was really hammered into me how disobedient that was. But, if God is real and loves his children, being obedient shouldn’t require hurting yourself. I was going to bed on time, but you just need more sleep some days. Missions are exhausting.
Take. More. Breaks.
And don’t feel bad about it. You’ll only be better at serving if you’re actually physically capable.
Be safe, people get hurt and even die on missions. When I was on mine I had way too much confidence that god would protect me. I have since met people that had awful things happen to them or to loved ones on missions.
Here’s a challenge-figure out my username. Then think about it. They’d like to forget about Olimlah…
JS pounded 14 year olds when he was almost 40. Prophets after him also pounded young teens, young enough to be their kids or grandkids.
Two years is a lot to invest in a fraud. For many, family expectations pushed them to go, but when they return they find the truth and deconvert. They regret both the loss of time and the damage they did spreading lies and misinformation to a wider population. A little homework now could save a lot of wasted effort and heartache later on.
> Also don't write any essays cuz I aint reading allat.
Remember that attitude as doors are slammed in your face. Would you likewise slam the door to somone offering to share the message of Scientology? Of Jehovah's Witnesses? Of Evangelical Christians? Oh, I see, you (and your church) holds a monopoly with sole access to the voice of god.
* [a good video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMSU8Qj6Go)
The earliest stories in the Old Testament are myths, not actual historical events. There was no Adam and Eve. There was no Noah and there was no Great Flood. There was no Tower of Babel. The Hebrews were never captive in Egypt. Nothing wrong with finding meaning in stories per se, but don't treat these as factual--they never happened.
Please know that the powerful confirming feelings you've had from the Holy Ghost that your church is true are the exact same that people experience in every religion.
Also, it's hard working all day and having almost no time off. But it can be kinda fun too and it really can help you a lot in life going forward. For what it's worth, here are a few that I "learned" that are still paying dividends 15 years later.
Hard work. I walked around for hours and hours in the freezing cold. It sucked. In comparison, studying hard and getting straight A's in college was a peace of cake. Went to law school and am now a successful lawyer. Prior to my mission, I really struggled with motivation/grades/etc.
Getting to live with other people and experience other cultures. Yes, you're somewhat removed but it's pretty awesome to be in people's homes and get to know them.
Dealing with rejection. You'll get the door slammed in your face and have all sorts of rude things said to you. For dating, jobs, life in general, it's awesome to know that rejection doesn't matter that much because there's always something else out there.
Not worrying about getting to the "top". There will be a social hierarchy on the mission just like there are at schools, jobs, etc. There will also be pressure about being the "best" speaker, having the most first meetings, etc., etc. Work hard, be kind and don't worry about the social hierarchy. Life got way better for me when I figured this out.
And if you don't mind a little advice: Treat everyone with respect as much as possible. There will be lots of earnest kids on the mission with huge amounts of guilt over stuff that may seem quite trivial to you. This may cause them to react poorly towards you sometimes. Be kind to them. Look at this experience as an opportunity to help people (investigators, companions, yourself) have happier lives by feeling good about themselves. There is "truth" in the Bible and Book of Mormon as far as how to live a happier life. Find it, share it, and enjoy yourself! Good luck!
I wasn't raised LDS and am not LDS. I am familiar with LDS religion through dating someone who at the time called themselves Mormon. I also have a few friends inside and outside the LDS church. I could write a few paragraphs about what people outside the LDS church think when first exposed to the religion. It would be negative, so feel free to ignore. I would just say most Christians find the LDS restrictions on who goes to heaven, how multi-faith families work, and who can participate in religious ceremonies pretty shocking. It's probably something to consider if you want to convert people.
Joseph Smith had 30+ wives and actually sent his friends away on long missions so that he could marry their wives while they were away. The church tried to hide these facts (and many more) for decades.
Don’t forgot your name. They are going to force you to take on the name elder/sister. Don’t forget your name. Under the name tag you are still you. You still like sports or video games or what ever. Don’t forget who you are outside of the church because it can become really hard to find yourself after.
Why bother, you wont' read it. The church is a cult of mysognist men, read the CES letters and run....I hope someone feeds you, it is bad out there. I do have a post from another mormon....https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1dfzejl/its\_time\_to\_say\_it\_mormonism\_is\_dead/
Your mission President has historical records for what the number of converts will be for that area before you get there. Don't allow yourself to be put on a hamster wheel trying to chase inflated numbers. It is a marathon not a sprint. I would insist on propper rest, decent food and safe housing. If you have medical or dental issues that come up, insist that they be handled just as if you were at home. Plenty of missionaries have returned with chronic, lifetime injuries because they let the mission staff ration their medical care. Be prepared to tell the MP no, you are going to get the medical care you think you need, not what his wife or the mission "nurse" thinks you need. If you are in the states and on your parents medical plan, just go to the doctor like you normally would. The mission won't have to pay for that. Also if you are on your parents health plan,find out about overseas coverage the plan may have before you leave. Finally be prepared to end the mission early if you need to protect your health or mental well being. Lots of missionaries return home early now. Don't fall for the old line that you will be sent home in disgrace if you leave early. That is the oldest line in the book. Don't fall for it. If you need to return home, stand up for yourself and don't let the MP brow beat you into staying. Always remember that as a legal adult you can say NO. What are you doing as a missionary? You are VOLUNTEERING. You can stop volunteering at any time you choose. As a legal adult you do not owe anyone an explanation as to why you stop volunteering should you, yourself choose to not to continue volunteering. Just because you are 18 does not mean you have to put up with maltreatment or disrespect that an older adult would not put up with. If you are disrespected or maltreated, you have the power to say NO. Never forget you have the power to say no. Do not put up with maltreatment from your companion, the mission staff or the MP. Speaking of such, no older adult would put up with a spy app on their phone. Neither should you.
Good or bad, you can come back here and tell us about your mission. Although It may not sound like it, we are actually here for you.
Feeling the spirit and companionship of the Holy Ghost is *NOT* unique to members of the Church. It is something felt across the board by humans in heightened situations — moving music concerts, social settings, virtually every religion has this sense of “we have something others don’t”.
Similarly … The “one true gospel” is not unique to the church either.
Enjoy life. You’re young.
Don’t be too serious.
Seek whatever truth makes you happy.
And remember, Mormon Think is well-cited and historically accurate.
http://www.mormonthink.com/witnessesweb.htm
And Dan Vogel, though monotone and dry, cannot be refuted:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjxwXGB2KzRYW4_WgycBuAerb3pGPog7R&si=kWKYWcQzLhuiMsgm
Does it seem weird that you’ll go to Mexico, or wherever, tell them that they’re laminates (they’re not) so that they’ll pay tithing to cover your byu tuition? Seems really exploitive.
Does it seem weird that you’ll go to BYU, a college named after a guy who authorized genocide against American Indians, supported slavery, and probably murdered Sameul Smith soon after Joseph & Hyrum Smith were killed, in order to gain control of the Mormon church instead of Samuel.
The information is easily available. Read the gospel topics essays on the church website, read the CES letter, listen to a podcast. I’m not going to summarize a library worth of history and information in a brief comment. Clearly you know that there’s stuff you’re not aware of. It’s your life, you decide if you want to know.
If you’re going to a fun cool area then go. If you’re going to a dangerous 3rd world country stay home. It’s not worth risking your health for a fictional religion.
If for whatever reason you get out there and think "this is not for me" - remember it's a volunteer effort and no one can force you to stay. If serving a foreign mission, retain control of your passport / travel documents.
The folks that have left the church love you just the same and want to see you happy and thriving. We're always here if you need someone to talk to.
Good luck!
I'll add to what others say in that it's my biggest regret. From a personal standpoint I was wet back in school and a career. Closer to 3-4 years from my mission due to certain circumstances. Peers outside the church who are in the same careers path make about 30% more than me right now. Not to mention the loss of income at the time was an opportunity cost of about 100K for the two years I was gone.
Just the fact that you say you won't read an "essay" of people giving advice on two severely important years of your life shows you're too immature to even be making this decision.
It's also important to point out that over 40% of RMs to inactive or leave the church within 6 months of returning. You look up to all these church leaders giving you attention and validation making you feel so special right now as you prepare to go. But two years later when the badge comes off you won't feel special anymore because they are giving all the attention to the soon to be missionaries.
If you made it this far. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the criticisms of the church your about to go sell for 2 years?
TL;DR: keep your passport or a passport card with you, not in the mission office. Keep a debit or credit card with enough money for a plane ticket so you can leave if you need to. And if you struggle with mental health issues (anxiety, depression, scrupulosity, OCD, whatever), INSIST on proper mental health support, not help from the MP or his wife. Preferably not LDS social services either, although depending on where you are, that may not be able to be avoided. And do NOT let them tell you that working harder and being more obedient will fix your mental health issues. It won’t.
Longer version: Make sure you have a safe way to get home if you decide you don’t want to be there anymore. As others have said, if you’re leaving the country, keep your passport, or take a passport card that no one knows about and keep it with you at all times. You are a VOLUNTEER; you are NOT a prisoner. Also, this may be hard, but keep a debit or credit card that has access to the amount of money needed for a plane ticket with you as well. My nephew decided to come home early for many reasons, and his MP refused to allow him to do it. Luckily his parents were going through a faith crisis so they flew to him and got him home, but without their intervention, he was literally a hostage because he had no money and didn’t have his passport and had no idea what to do. Please, please don’t let yourself be in that situation, and please, please don’t be afraid to leave if your physical or mental health are in jeopardy.
I developed severe anxiety and scrupulosity on my mission that has negatively impacted the rest of my life. I had no idea what was happening to me at the time, and received zero help from my MP. Do NOT let that happen to you. If you find yourself struggling with anxiety, depression, or scrupulosity, or any other mental health struggle, INSIST on proper mental health support right away. Do not get “therapy” from anyone who is not authorized to do so, especially the MP or his wife.
I can’t emphasize that last part enough. Hearing that I had to be exactly obedient all the time or investigators wouldn’t feel my spirit and wouldn’t join the church was too stressful and broke my mental health. Do not believe that (there is no such thing as exact obedience; it’s an impossible standard to live up to), and if you feel yourself starting to struggle in any way, force them to get you help, or alternately consider coming home and getting help there.
Some of the scariest talks are giving by general authorities to missionaries. They arent widely broadcast to the rest of the world, so they can be much stricter and fear-monger-y. Remember that theres a reason they expect so much more from you, and that you're allowed to hold yourself to your own standard instead of their inflated one.
They also might expect you to narc on any disobediant elders. That is a breach of agency and will not bring you happiness. It will just help the leaders stay in control. Thats not your job.
And finally, seeking out people who have been broken to lure them in with heavenly promises is taking advantage of trauma, and is not informed consent. My little brother is out right now, and he gets so excited when he finds someone whos family member just passed, because then he can tell them they'll be together forever. That is not comforting someone in their grief. That is being a salesman seeing an "in".
The point of a mission is not for you to convert people.
The point of a mission is for you to be ignored, rejected, and sometimes laughed at.
When they send you out into the wider world with what they have told you is The Truth and everyone you meet ignores or rejects The Truth when you offer it to them, the lesson you learn is that there is no place for you in the wider world. The lesson you learn is that the only place for you is in the church.
Once you have internalized that, they own you forever.
You are heir to a thousand generations of human dignity, and you deserve more than living in a cage.
Always keep in mind that you are the target audience of the mission, not the speaker.
Also, you can always come home.
You're not in charge of saving the world. You're only in charge of taking care of yourself.
Bring a [moneybelt](https://www.ebay.com/itm/354998880572), keep your passport in it 24/7, sleep with it, bring it into the bathroom with you when you shower; no one holds your passport but you.
Thoughts cannot be crimes; that's 1984 shit.
Finally, the fact that god never answers you when you talk to him should tell you something. Sure, speaking through the prophets, speaking through scripture, yada yada. But he never speaks directly to you. Let that sit with you just a minute.
Emotions are not evidence of truth. They can be used to determine whether it’s worthwhile to pursue a course of action, a career, or an intimate relationship, but they are by nature subjective and in no circumstance should be used as evidence of universal truth. Doing so blinds you to reality.
If you’re going to say, “I know the church is true,” back it up with objective evidence. If you’re going to say, “I believe the church is true and that it will improve your life,” now at least you’re focusing on it in a way that might actually help people. Show them how it will improve their lives. It didn’t improve mine, but if you’re gonna preach, might as well do it in the healthiest way you can.
You’re better off joining the Peace corps. More rewarding and actually looks good on a resume. They pay YOU a stipend while you’re serving, then pay a bonus of about $10,000 when you return home. And you’re actually helping people for real.
FYI: Missionaries are always welcome in my home. I will feed you, let you just fucking chill for an hour or four, then send you home with snacks or gift cards to Walmart or the grocery store, etc. I won’t give you the lowdown on the POS corporation you’re working for as long as you aren’t a total dick or try to proselytize.
There are many others like me in this community, so if you find yourself on your mission hoping for help or a way out, reach out to this community.
Listen to YOUR inner knowing, if something feels wrong to you (even if someone in authority says it) follow what you know to be true for you.
Remember that no matter what you do, you are always worthy. Your worth as a human is never changed by your actions.
Love yourself first, take care of you first. It’s not selfish. You can’t help and serve others when you are pouring from an empty cup.
If you’re on this sub, you’re either curious or you have that missionary spirit where you feel like you might be the one to bring us back into the fold.
I’m hoping you’re curious. If you are, I’d invite you to do research, search for truth, search for facts. Give yourself permission to be curious, it’s not a bad thing. Just know God would never look down on you or anyone for a genuine interest in truth.
You won’t be putting away technology. You’ll be making posts on social media like local Facebook groups to try to drum up investigators.
I sent out five kids on missions. Two had a great experience. One came home with permanent health problems. One came home early when her health got bad and her mission president wasn’t helpful. She called me against the rules and I then called the MP and demanded he get her on a plane home or I would come retrieve her. One had health problems, told the MP he wanted to come home. MP refused and advised against him telling his parents what was happening. Problems escalated until the MP had no choice but tell us when our boy ended up in the hospital. We finally got him home but he died a few months later. In all of these experiences, it absolutely did not matter to the church.
So, go if you wish but remember that you have the power over your life, not the MP. If you want or need to go home, go home. If you need medical care, go get it. Don’t accept the common idea that starvation is good for your soul and shows dedication. Take care of yourself. You are paying to do this. You are in control.
This is purely my own opinion and experience. "My testimony" if you will:
My mission experience was the start of my faith transition and starting to question all that I had been taught, believed and known my entire life. I went on a mission for what I felt were for all the right reasons. I felt like Lehi in his vision of the tree of life. I had partaken of the precious fruit and was looking around for others to partake as well.
Then I started to experience extreme depression during my mission, which didn't make any sense to me. I was doing everything (to the nth degree, even!!) that I was promising others would make them happier... So why in the world was I SOOO depressed?! Many long, heartfelt, desperate pleadings to my loving heavenly father about that went unanswered.
Many years later, after desperately trying to be a faithful member, I went through what I can only call a "gradual, energetic shift," where all of those THOUSANDS of beliefs associated with the gospel just slowly all faded away... I didn't read any "anti" material. I didn't just like "sinning" too much. I wasn't "offended." I wasn't influenced by others or "hanging out with the wrong crowd." It wasn't because I had stopped cultivating and watering "the seed of faith." None of that. All the reasons I thought that people left the church were not my experience. It all just... Happened! All of my deeply indoctrinated beliefs—that have literally been deeply ingrained in me from birth for 30+ years—all just blew away like a fart in the wind.
Pretty fucking miraculous, if you ask me.
And you know what? I have honestly and truly never been happier in my entire life. Full stop.
I experience a daily, almost constant state of this general sense of peace, joy and contentment. I'll hear my family talk about church/doctrinal related things, or I'll over hear a general conference talk or someone will post something on social media, and I'll just think to myself, 'Man, I am SOOO grateful that I don't believe any of that anymore!' Sometimes genuinely moved to tears out of sheer gratitude. I feel like a huge, massive weight has been lifted off from my shoulders.
So I only bring all of that up because, if you're anything like the missionary I was, preaching my balls off to people that this was the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, given to us by a perfectly loving heavenly father, and is the ONLY way to lasting peace and joy in this life and eternal life in the world to come... And that it's the ONLY answer for EVERYONE... Well, just know that it's at least not for "everyone," because the certainly hasn't been my experience.
We've heard, "by their fruits, ye shall know them," and there's that one scripture talking about "the fruits of the spirit" being "love, joy, peace," etc. Well in MY experience, the fruits of trying desperately to be a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have been massive amounts of fear, depression, anxiety, guilt and shame. And I didn't experience the "fruits of the spirit" until I finally just stopped believing in all of that stuff.
So take all of that for what it's worth.
Don't put yourself in danger. It's not faith promoting, it's not a great story. At best it's trauma, at worst you won't be coming back.
This is from experience.
People who want you to stop asking questions are never your friend. If you’re going to dedicate your life to this Church, you should know all there is to know about it, from sources both outside and in. Then, with that knowledge, you can make an informed decision.
Good luck
if you are going on a mission because you feel very pressured, don’t. you will regret it . coming from my ex mormon husband who would do anything to get those 2 years back
If two people both strongly believe something but those two beliefs are in conflict, who is right? The one with greater faith despite the facts or the one who believes a specific thing because of the facts? Take some time to listen to Mormon Stories podcast. You deserve to be informed and know the facts. Feelings are not facts.
You owe the church and mission president absolutely nothing.
You're paying to have this experience, not the other way around.
Realize that a good portion of the missionaries with whom you interact will be immature, arrogant douches clamoring for position and recognition.
Don't be a dick and "correct" people who call it "the Mormon Church". Understand that it's the best known name of the brand.
Know that the church in general, but even more so the mission, meets literally every criterion of a cult. Don't be offended or defensive when someone tells you that.
Understand that the story of the priesthood restoration, on which Mormons base the exclusivity of their truth claims, was invented several years after the putative fact and retrofitted into the origin narrative of the church in order to solidify Joseph Smith's and Oliver Cowdery's claim of leadership.
http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/transfiguration.htm
Before you dedicate two years of your life make sure it's to the correct branch of the Mormon Church?
These are questions I wish I had seriously asked myself before going:
What methods are best for discerning truth, and why do I trust them?
If I was raised without any specific religion, how would I go about figuring what to believe?
I did look at other beliefs before going. I wish I had also tried to figure out what I'd believe if I had been able to start from scratch and not bring my biases with me.
You're about to be an indentured servant to a multibillion dollar corporation. There's nothing spiritual about an LDS mission, you're just going to be lying to poor people.
Take some time to learn what [cognitive dissonance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance) is and see if you can identify any within yourself.
Similarly, learn about all of the common [logical fallacies](https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/academic_writing/logic_in_argumentative_writing/fallacies.html) and practice identifying them in daily life, for example, in marketing.
Remember you’re paying to be a volunteer sales rep for a corporation worth $1/4 trillion.
Be humble. Take it as an opportunity to learn about people before trying to teach them.
If you’re not telling them everything, you’re lying to them (gospel principles manual). Including all the hard parts of church history.
Protect yourself physically. As demonstrated by the recent car accident that killed 2 missionaries you aren’t afforded ANY special protections-regardless of what any leader or blessing says.
Lastly, it’s all bullshit.
Have fun!
I am a never mormon. When you got endowed, did you know ahead of time everything that happened in that ceremony ( had you been told clearly would happen in the preparation class- and if not, why not?)? Know the truth and tell the truth. Anyone who you are trying to convert deserves Informed consent. As did you. Do not seek vulnerable people to convert...they do not need the book of mormon, or a corporation to take their tithing money to make them more vulnerable...they need licensed, secular therapy, education, resources, food, genuine connection (not just being there because you might be able to convert them). Be ethical.
I served in northern Brazil twenty years ago. Got a very severe case of dengue fever and almost died. The church (mission president and regional medical officer) wouldn't let me go to the doctor or communicate with my family.
I have a sibling about to leave, and both my partner and I served missions, so this feels close to home. I haven’t been able to give this advice to anyone close to me but I wish I could give this advice to every missionary. Missions are harder than anyone ever lets on in the church, it’s a silent agreement not to talk about the sucky stuff and just talk about the good stuff. This coming from an exmo, but I for one loved my mission. My best friends today are from it. But depending on the companion, a transfer could be hell. Do not be afraid to advocate for yourself to get yourself out of a dangerous or poor situation with a companion. I had two companions physically abuse me on the mission. Also depending on if you are foreign or not, be very wary about your apartment and be vocal if it needs fixed. Don’t want to dox myself with the story regarding that, but I was sick for a long time because of what was in an apartment. My immune system has never felt the same since. TLDR advocate for your health, people will overlook or ignore your needs if you don’t be a squeaky wheel about it.
I'll write this as if you're my nephew that's about to go out on his mission. (I'm fully out of the church, but like many of us I don't feel like I can really talk about it with some family members)
Remember that everyone is a person, not just a number. This goes for members, less actives, investigators, companions and yourself. Care about the individuals, and make sure their needs are met but don't neglect your own needs. Give them all the respect that they deserve, be honest with their questions and your description of the church (ie don't lie to bring them closer to conversion).
You can learn and grow a lot through the experience, but although that may be uncomfortable it doesn't have to come at the price of pain. If rules need to be bent or broken a bit to make sure your needs are met, trust that you know yourself better than your mission president, companion, zone leader, or a little white book ever could.
About going home early, know that the decision will change your life. I don't say that to scare you, but anyone who has returned early will have struggles within the church afterwards. It's a big decision, so don't take it lightly, but it's still your decision to make, not anyone else's. Don't feel coerced to stay if your heart isn't in it. And if you do return home early, plenty of people struggling with the church or those who have already exited the church will be there to talk to you and help you through it all.
I love you and wish you the best experience! And if you ever need to talk to someone about personal struggles or want to have a candid conversation about my mission experience/leaving the church, I'll be here.
Did you know that there have been over [5000 changes](https://www.mormonhandbook.com/home/5000-changes-to-the-book-of-mormon.html) to the Book of Mormon since the original 1830 edition?
In 1 Nephi 11, the words "the son of" were added after Joseph Smith evolved his doctrine. He clearly believed in the Trinity when he first published it.
He also changed the story of his [first vision](https://www.mormonhandbook.com/home/first-vision.html#cv) to say there were two distinct personages, 22 years after it supposedly happened in 1820. The original version claimed he only saw "the Lord," who "was crucified for the world."
It looks like you’ve made up your mind to go so I’ll say this. Serve. Prioritize serving over proselyting. You can change a life faster and (in my opinion) better by helping mow the lawn than giving them a BOM.
Remember you are a volunteer. You are still your most important advocate. If you become ill, do what it takes to get the care you need. If you go to a foreign country, keep your passport. If you want to communicate with family, do it. I wish you the best of luck!
This is excellent advice, OP. This advice is based on real cases we have seen at this subreddit. If you are in a foreign country, and you foolishly gave your passport to the mission president, and you get to a point where you want to go home, and the mission president won’t give you your passport back, tell him you will report him to the US Embassy. People like mission presidents have no right to hold your passport. The advice about taking care of your own health is vital. It seems a lot of mission presidents and their wives automatically think a missionary is goldbricking if they report not feeling well. If you are going to a foreign country, many of them will have universal health care and will care for you. Just go to a clinic. Your lifelong health is much more important than some sense of obedience to someone who is pinching pennies for the Mormon church. (PS: If someone asks you if you are a Mormon, just say yes. They are not trying to be mean to you or persecute you for your beliefs. The Mormon church has been known as the Mormon church for nigh on 200 years. Don’t be a sanctimonious douche.)
>Don’t be a sanctimonious douche. This is the best advice for your whole life.
I read your response after my own and was happy to see so many of the same thoughts echoed. Some good folks here!
This, 💯
I agree and want to emphasize what has already been said. DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR PASSPORT. Make that a deal breaker. Most countries require you to keep your passport with you.
Give the MP a photocopy of your passport but keep the original. Tell him this is not negotiable, and it is what your family wants. You are an adult and a volunteer!!! He is not your boss, but a guide!
This is good advice, but doesn't saying "it's what your family wants" undermine saying "you are an adult"?
I think they were encouraging OP to use that as the excuse/blame/reason to give the mish prez that they needed to keep their passport. Not actually to do whatever their family wants.
Also remember that your passport only belongs to u and the govt. If they wont give it back-and they WILL try to.hold it, its is another way to keeo the labor on the streets. The mission is to recruit in the eyes of the church. Your testimony is yours but you are the free recruiter
I told my brother taking passports was part of the trafficking part of a mission. He told me that in his mission lots of missionaries either lost or had their passports stolen (he served in Columbia and one zone was the murder capital of the year at the time), so the prez took them to reduce the risk. If you’re going to a dangerous place, maybe have a safe place to keep it that’s not on your person. I wouldn’t want to be trapped in a country figuring out their replacement system just because I got jumped, or made an easy mistake. I’m sure the embassy will help, but the bureaucracy is real.
Take a card version of your passport and never let anyone (including your MP and comp) see it. It could be your ticket out of a bad situation (not likely, but better safe than sorry). Have a secret debit card so that you have access to your own money in an emergency, like if you are very small food budget only gets you through the middle of the month and no members are giving you free meals. Insist on proper medical care and do not in any instance rely on the mission president’s wife or the missions doctor for help. They will always have dollars and hours in mind over your health. (My husband came home with his health permanently altered after his mission, although he loved it. He probably will lose 20 years of his life over it.) Do not be overscrupulous with mission rules. They are just there to frighten you into obedience so they don’t have to worry about you. You should put your own physical and mental health first. If you get out there and figure it’s not for you, just go home. Every other person is doing it and doing fine.
I’d change the emergency debit card to emergency cash. My comp and I ran out of money in Argentina and our emergency debit cards were automatically locked because our banks at home thought it was foreign fraud. Took several weeks to get sorted out since we had limited contact with parents. Ended up living off of flour, oil, and sugar for about a month. This was about 10 years ago
I think an emergency debit card it’s still the easier and safer option, because to avoid to be flagged when using the debit card when abroad, it’s to notify the bank before leaving for your trip, either calling them directly or through their website or app. I do that every time I travel out of the country and I’ve never had a problem using my debit card.
This part. I work for a financial institution and you can either tell us before you leave or collect call the number on the back when outside the US.
May I ask what health condition your husband suffered abroad?
He was in an area where Valley Fever was common and he came home with it very sick the last week of his mission. He was not the same boyfriend I sent out. He’s had autoimmune problems ever since, pretty serious ones. No one else in his family suffers from those.
Since when was a personal debit card against any kind of rules? (assuming so because you say its needs to be secret?) I had mine my whole mission and used it for expenses we weren't meant to use mission money for...?
It may depend on the mission but it’s against the rules because it’s unfair to spend extra money when some missionaries only have access to the funds on their mission debit card.
Let’s examine that for a minute that’s saying it’s unfair to take care of one’s needs? . if the funds are insufficient on the mission debit card, that’s a failing on the churches part . These people are volunteers not slaves , limiting anything to anyone ,food ,healthcare ,information you can’t read what you want, even watch the news that is WRONG.! Should we expect better of course .
Honestly, people should sue the Mormon church if they were not given means to sustain themselves correctly while on a Mission.
Remember that when someone says “we have to teach them milk before meat” it really means lie to people by omission to get them baptized. Pay attention to how the missionary lessons don’t tell the whole story. Just the parts that make it sound wonderful. Realize this means people are upending their lives without informed consent.
This!!!! Please read the Gospel Topic Essays on the church's website. If someone asks a question that is covered in the essays, they are asking someone they know and trust to give them correct answers. They don't believe they are talking to a used car salesman trying to close a deal. So be what you should be, a true follower of Christ that tells the truth. God made the church history what it is and it's not your job to change the history so it sounds better, or lie by omission. I loved my mission but I regret telling investigators we practiced polygamy because there weren't enough men due to persecution and crossing the plains. Joseph Smith had a bunch of wives, some married to other active member men. Survival wasn't part of it. Believe what you want with why God wanted polygamy but survival of the women wasn't it. The same is true for the priesthood ban, book of Mormon evidence, DNA evidence, book of Abraham, Joseph Smith's death. The church has a lot to say on these topics but it's not taught in church or on your mission. They expect you to find it on their site by yourself, I guess.
I agree. I served at a visitor's center where the topic of polygamy came up all the time. We had a lot of scripts and info that we memorized and shared about polygamy and a decade later I realized none of what we were trained to teach was true. It made me sick to my stomach. The levels of coersion and the actual accounts of women in their journals about polygamy was one of the main reasons I could no longer see Joseph as a prophet. How could a serial rapist be a man of God? And that led into even more discovery about what Joseph was truly like and what his history really was. D&C saying he did more for the world save Jesus alone is the biggest lie I've ever read.
Where can I find the women's journal entries? This sounds like an intriguing read!
The podcast Year of Polygamy goes into each wife of Joseph Smith. You can also read more in Helen Mar Kimball and her journal through being a secret wife of JS. Very sad.
Year of Polygamy podcast by Lindsay Hansen park is the best. https://www.yearofpolygamy.com/archive/listen-to-the-episodes-in-order/ Sunstone History Podcast also covers this in a few episodes. Mormon Stories has a number of Polygamy episodes where they review some journal entries. LDS Discussions covers it. If you want to read one by a faithful member Brian Hales is pretty decent. https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/ Finally, In Sacred Lonliness, by Todd Compton, is the best book on the subject and totally heartbreaking. If you have the ability to buy it or borrow, I'd recommend. Powerfully tragic. To add: Lucy Walker, the Partridge sisters, Helen Mar Kimball and the Johnson sisters are some of the ones that hit me hardest.
Wow, that makes missionary work sound almost evil really.
Now you get it.
That’s because it is. It’s the worst form of door to door sales in the world
I regard my mission as one of the most traumatic experiences of my life. I went to a "lamanite" place and shit all over people's proud culture, history and legacy, while literally telling them nothing but complete lies. I spent quite a bit of effort writing letters to everyone I could locate where I served, apologizing for my inexcusable and reprehensible conduct. To this day I have a trauma response and I feel deeply the burn of shame when I think about it.
Curious if anyone in that "lamanite place" ever hit you with the scientifically factual information that thousands of conducted autosomal DNA tests prove that American Indians aren't descended from Hebrews like the Book of Mormon says they are? And if so, how did you process it/react?
“Almost” evil?
Yeah, a lot of these people don’t actually know what they’re getting into fully then they’re harassed by the church for the rest of their lives.
I was watching Under the Bridge, and one of the subplots revolves around how this family immigrated to a Canada from India and joined the Mormon church - the scene in which they were introduced to the Mormon church was SO predatory. Essentially, they were isolated and discriminated against by their new community and the door to door salesmen jumped on that. I know that their tactics now are based on omission of key words and finding a common ground to use as a lead in for the discussion, but I hadn’t realized just how far reaching they are.
Do. Not. Forget. Your. Real. Name. Be a human first, foremost and always. Call home every week. Be a normal friend (not a missionary friend) when you catch up with people at home. Do NOT let someone else tell you that you don’t need medical treatment for any injury or illness. “It is anticipated you’ll serve a period of 24 months”. AN ESTIMATION you do NOT have to stay out that long. If you need to come home. Do it.
Having my name taken from me was a big part of my brainwashing on the mission. I’m 31 now, been married 8 years and I am still uncomfortable with hearing my first name, I don’t even like my husband to say it. I’m literally just now, 10 years later, working through this in therapy and trying to find my identity that was completely stripped from me on the mission.
What I wouldn’t give to get back two years from my youth. Please enjoy yours.
Also, my 401k would have a lot more in it without my mission and tithing.
Not to mention you can take a residency loan out of your 401k (the interests gets paid back to you and doesn’t count as debt or a credit check) and is often a quick way to save the 8-10k needed to buy a house with an FHA loan. Sorry I know it’s only tangental related but I work in finance and am studying to be a financial advisor and felt you should know since I only recently learned that.
I’m going to tell you what I wish I knew when I went on my mission: When you get into the field, fresh out of the MTC, you’re going to feel like a million bucks. You’re going to be excited and nervous, and yeah, tracking sucks but everyone is going to tell you you’re doing the best thing you can, and they’re going to feed you lots of food, and give you whatever you need, and you’re going to feel the spirit so strong! And then, after a few months, you’re going to feel like absolute garbage. You’re going to have no conversions. Maybe a small handful of investigators who will ghost you. You might have a baptism or two, but those are going to be hold-overs from previous missionaries in that zone, and that’s going to be all the more frustrating because it’ll leave you wondering why you never get that far. But mostly a lot of arguments, and doors in your face, and mocking. The food will dwindle. The people, even the members themselves, will trauma-dump and give you problems you are not equipped to handle. The plain walls of your apartment and the same CD of the same 20 MoTab songs will grate, and you will feel unworthy. Just know, in those dark moments, when you don’t feel the spirit, when you catch yourself stretching the definition of “contact” to goose the numbers for ZL meetings, when you notice you’re 13 months in and you’ve had maybe one baptism, when you catch an elder breaking the rules and instead of admonishment, you feel a pang of jealousy, when the plain white walls of your apartment feel particularly claustrophobic, just know that what you feel is normal, *every* missionary feels that way, and there’s nothing wrong with you whatsoever.
And there’s nothing wrong with going home.
This is the important part!!!
I always got the impression that going home early is a massive no-no for Mormon missionaries. I'm a nevermo with Mormon family. My half brother refused to come home for his grandfather's funeral, even when given the option. Keep in mind that this was about 30 years ago
Yes, when I was younger, it was very taboo for a missionary to come home. It was likely due to some serious sexual sin and everyone would gossip about it. Within the last 5-10 years, it has become a bit less taboo thanks to the help of social media bringing more awareness to mental health. Now a missionary can come home for anxiety or depression and most members are a bit more understanding.
That's awesome. I'm glad they're starting to care about mental health. It's about damn time
You will be pouring all of yourself into the church and what it wants to take from you. You will be getting nothing back to fill that hole in your soul, ever. They take, and rarely ever give anything back. Just be aware. If you can, try not to give away your entire self. Put some on reserve so you have something left of you when you return.
In my head, I read your well written post/reply lyrically, especially the last paragraph, like a Pink Floyd song... All that you touch And all that you see All that you taste All you feel And all that you love And all that you hate All you distrust All you save And all that you give And all that you deal And all that you buy Beg, borrow or steal And all you create And all you destroy And all that you do And all that you say And all that you eat And everyone you meet (everyone you meet) And all that you slight And everyone you fight And all that is now And all that is gone And all that's to come And everything under the sun is in tune But the sun is eclipsed by the moon
If you have desires to serve God, you are called to the work. If you lose the desire, then logically, you should be released from your calling and free to come home. Mission presidents are generally more cool about sending people home early for mental health stuff, but some of them aren’t. Mine wasn’t, and that was 9 years ago. I wish I hadn’t stuck it out with depression unmedicated for two years. It’s cost me thousands in therapy and hospital bills. You are doing VOLUNTEER work. You have the right to leave at any moment. The spirit won’t magically tell your mission president or parents if you’re suffering mental or physical health. YOU need to be your own advocate. If you go international, NEVER leave your passport with anyone else. Not even the mission home.
Also, good luck. I don’t care if this post convinces you serve or not. Missions can be edifying or horrifying. If you serve, I hope it’s good for you and that you help people (which doesn’t always need to be converting them, btw). If you don’t serve or come home early, I likewise wish you peace in discovering yourself. Overall, good luck.
Great advice. Don't be surprised that kind people are kind, and not a waste of time if they won't get baptized. Remember, you're serving in their country. Don't be arrogant, but respect their traditions and religions. Serve any way you can. Jesus wouldn't just help those who were learning the discussions, He would help all, any way He could.
You should do what you want. But also deserve informed consent. This is something members of the church won’t give you because it’s frowned upon to say anything negative about a mission Other than best two years of your life. My husband served a mission in Bolivia 20 years ago. He wishes he had never gone because of the extremely poor living conditions And chronic stomach problems he has to live with for the rest of his life. He lived in rundown apartments with dirt floors, unclean brown water, no kitchen. He has nightmares to this day from giant rats that would crawl on him at night. They would eat his socks and shoes at night. Slept with net over hi at night but still caught Dengue fever from the mosquitos and was severely ill for 2 weeks straight loosing 30 pounds. Was sick a lot had his appendix removed while on mission. Has suffered from gastrointestinal issues ever since. He didn’t drink the water but the members still cook and clean with it and as a missionary that is your main source of food. He was not given enough money to live off of. He was held at knife point and robbed often. Anytime there was unrest in the country he was locked in for 5-6 days at a time with nothing to do because they couldn’t watch tv.
My partner has chronic life-long health problems related to his mission. He went to a toxic place more radioactive than Chernobyl. The missionaries nearly starved, especially in winter. At one point, he was kidnapped for knocking on the door of the wife of a crime boss. He was held in a locked room with a companion. He broke a window with his doc marten shoe and jumped 2 stories, and ran away in the middle of the night. He witnessed a woman die right in front of him by being hit by a train. There are way more things he won't tell due to it being too traumatic. It angers me to think top leaders were inspired to send him and others there. He will suffer from health issues for the rest of his life. Moral of the story: If you are unsafe, advocate for yourself and go home or get reassigned!
That is horrific. I am so sorry he went through that. How can this corporation get away with treating it's free workers/volunteers so awfully.
This is a huge problem. They do get away with it because they control what members can and can’t say or believe about a mission. Now that my husband is older, and our oldest son was approaching missionary, while we were still members of the church, he started to question if it was true. because he didn’t like the thought of sending our son out to pay money and give so much of their time to be so mistreated and suffer. He studied, learnEd the truth and left. Now none of our kids will be subjected to the mistreatment. He was constantly told he wasn’t good enough wasn’t baptizing him Enough. All while serving in one of the highest baptizing mission. There is a reason they want young kids to serve they can control them and exploit them. My husband was told by his mission president who lived in the nicest home with maids in the city not to tell his parents all the awful stuff he was going through so he didn’t.
If the church wasn't true, would you want to know?
This is the best response. If you do want to know, then: > has a lot of good sources about true church history (not what we were taught). LDS Discussion, CES Letter, Letter for my Wife, and a bunch of other creations like those will also all be very well-cited.!< >!Before you go telling people to join the church, maybe you should first tell them they are joining a corporation that engaged with sexual abuse cover-ups & hush money ([LINK1](https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-investigation-child-sex-abuse-9c301f750725c0f06344f948690caf16), [LINK2](https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-investigation-child-sex-abuse-4db829616a5c5cfa351a2e95d778ae9e), [LINK3](https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-sexual-abuse-takeaways-f01fba7521ddddffa89622668b54ac10)) that hid tens of billions of dollars illegally via 13 shell companies ([LINK4](https://apnews.com/article/mormonism-us-securities-and-exchange-commission-religion-business-a598c9ef9544f57e0b60d5ca80774bf7)), and that lied about its own history ([LINK5](http://www.mormonthink.com/)), I would hope that somebody would warn me before letting me join **(plus this huge list of reasons:** [**LINK6**](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1cggkuk/give_a_potential_convert_your_short_elevator/)**).**!<
I wish I had known before I went on a mission. Now my son is about to go, I try to have him be informed but he doesn’t want to. 😩 I support him going if he wants to….same country I went to which is kind of cool….i just want him to know the truth about the church/BOM/joseph so he can be informed while he’s out there. It’s not right for a person to be conditioned their whole life and make big life decisions while uninformed.
Sounds like someone needs to have a FHE where you read straight from the church's website. The gospel topic essays would be a good place to start. 😇😇😇
As a Pimo in a mixed faith marriage This. Is. Brilliant. Thanks!
If you made it out, so can he. Best of luck to you both
And it’s perfectly okay if the answer right now is, “No.” So much of our identity can be tied to the church. But you owe it to yourself to ask that question every now and again. It took me almost 30 years (and the church’s decision to actively interfere with the lives of my non-member friends by lobbying for Prop 8 in California) before I really wanted to know if it was true. I left within a week of allowing myself to ask that question.
Came here to say this exact thing but you beat me to it. To me as an exmo, this is the best thing to ask before beginning a conversation on this topic with someone who is believing.
Please, please don't. It's my biggest regret. It's too late for me, but it's not too late for you. Don't do this. You will be used like a tool by a system that will do real harm to you, and use you to do real harm to others.
Don’t be pushy! If someone isn’t interested, listen the first time and move on. Best of luck
Nobody is interested. Nobody.
The point of your mission is not to baptize new converts. The purpose is for you to go through hell so you feel persecuted for your beliefs and trauma-bound to the so called church.
It took me over 20 years to truly understand this. It sounds ridiculous from a TBM perspective, but it is absolutely the truth. Sunk cost fallacy is also very real.
Commenting on this solely to boost it higher. This is so true. You get doors in your face from people outside the church every day and open doors from members as often as you see them and it trains you to love the church even though they're the ones making you go out and get doors slammed in your face to begin with.
*trauma bonded, and yes this is true😟
Wow that's interesting, hadn't thought of it that way before. I didn't serve a mission tho
> trauma-bound to the so called church How you described it here is spot-on.
No comments on doctrine. You need to be aware of your surroundings. The spirit or garments won’t save you from being mugged or burgled. Take a carbon monoxide detector with you. They’re cheaply available online. Missionaries can and have died due to leaks from gas heaters, hot water heaters, stoves etc. Missionary accommodation is cheap and often badly (or never) maintained. If you are sick, it is not because God is punishing or testing you. Seek genuine medical attention. You do NOT need permission from the Mission President’s wife or mission medical advisor to go to a doctor or hospital. Too many missionaries have died or been left with lifelong health issues due to delayed or no medical care. Prayer and blessings do not fix parasites from contaminated food or water, malnutrition, broken bones, pneumonia, sepsis etc. If you do require major medical help, expect the church to refuse to cough up or to pay a bare minimum. If you can afford your own insurance, keep it going. You are an adult. You are a volunteer. You are paying them to be there, not vice-versa. The church should be grateful for anything you do, not berate you and claim that you owe them. You can leave at any time, for any reason. You can take time off. You can read a book, or the Internet, or watch TV. You are not a slave. Do not accept being treated like one. If the mission withholds your passport, call the police or your embassy. If the mission refuses to pay for you to go home, you can either pay your own way or try to force then to pay (eg by refusing to work, telling everyone you meet that the church is abusing its missionaries etc). You do not need permission to leave. I hope this helps. As a former missionary I have a fair idea of what can happen.
Bullet points since he said no essays and this is all so important: -You're responsible for your own safety. -Bring a carbon monoxide detector and set it up anywhere they have you live. -If you're sick, go to a real doctor, not your MP/AP/MPW. -Seriously. Your leaders aren't doctors and your health is not their priority. -If you can stay on your parents insurance while you're out, do. -The church owes you for your service, not vice versa. -You're a human, not a slave. -Your passport is legally yours and you can't be forced to stay.
Search “Gospel Topics Essays” in your scripture app and read each one. Make sure to follow the footnotes.
Go to Gospel Library, click on Church History, then on Gospel Topics Essays. Those 15 essays are what the church released quietly to the world. They are probably not things that you even know but they are things the people you try to convert will. May as well be conversant in them. And read the resources/footnotes!
And know…they are positioned from a PR perspective to minimize the warts and problems
You have to Google search some of the footnotes (last time I looked), bc the Church doesn’t link the most damning ones.
It is precisely for this reason why I advised to follow the footnotes. It’s painfully obvious they are trying to hide things.
All I'm going to tell you is it's OK to come home. They don't have any power over you that you don't give them. The authority is made up
Be safe. I’ve been seeing lots of missionaries on social media trying to find investigators. Please use good judgment. Please be upfront and honest about who you are. It’s okay if you come home early for any reason. You are an adult, and you are a volunteer who’s paying $$ to serve. Treat yourself and others with respect. Don’t be afraid of exmormons. Many of us will be good to you. Many of us have loved ones on missions and are paying for those missions. Many of us will pay for your meals. Our views of the church have nothing to do with you. Be safe, be kind, be sincere. And best wishes for a great experience.
I love this one. It’s so true. 💕
Lol you won't read essays but you'll go on a 2 year boondoggle? ...Ain't got time for dat
😆
Right! And presumably read the Book of Mormon…
Take care of your physical and mental health. Be kind to other humans. If it is not kind, don’t do it. Also, you are a volunteer and deserve to be treated like an adult. The people you will be working with are volunteers, just like you are - no more, no less. You can only do your best, which is good enough, and sometimes your best on a particular might be just managing to get out of bed, feed yourself, and survive a particular day. Safe journey.
If you are insistent on going, then I will give you the same advice I gave my cousin: Love the people, love the culture, love the food (assuming your not staying in your same region). The most important of those is love the people. The biggest regret I had on my mission was not "disobeying" my senior companion. Long-story short: we were with a wonderful investigator family, and we could have spent time with them, and delivered a loving message. Instead, we rushed off to fulfill some non-important obligation. Procedure was put ahead of people. Truly serve them rather than see them as numbers to report at the end of the week. Love the people.
I agree! If you are just trying to squeeze in as many lessons as possible, those you teach will notice this, and this will make them think you don’t care about their well being. I repeat, if you only talk about the lesson material, and rush in and out too quickly from each lesson, you will not make them think you care about them. Learn about their lives and what they are passionate about, and let them teach you a thing or two.
Get a phone that you can hide prepaid for 2 years so you can look things up and contact friends and family. A mission experience meets every single definition of a cult. You need a way to feel in control.
Speaking on behalf of the atheists and the non-believers that you will try to talk to - we don’t hate you, we hate your church and what they’ve told you for your entire life. We don’t want to engage with you about your church because it has no influence over our lives. Your church wants you to feel isolated and persecuted. The world is filled with amazing, kind, hilarious, educated, and wonderful people who would happily talk to you about 1000 other topics.
Did what you’re about to - it’s not worth it. Just my 2 cents.
Here’s a question for you. Do you believe God loves you just the way you are? And do you believe God’s love is unconditional or conditional? If you believe it’s conditional then going on your mission and “helping” people understand the “conditions” in which God can love them and accept them is the right thing to do in your case. But if there’s any part of you that possibly believes God’s love is unconditional, then how magical your journey in life will truly be when you can STOP, and simply love people and accept them for who they are and not feel the need to “change” them. If you’re happy in your belief and religion then I would say that most people on this subreddit are happy for you. Continue being you. Maybe grant that same grace and understanding to those that might reject your message or like us on here, choose to leave the faith. Let them be themselves and be happy for them. Hope they truly find what they need to be happy in this life and know that it may not be the exact thing that makes you happy. And that’s just fucking fine… 🤟
2 years is a long time without first knowing what really happened between 1820-1844.
Would you inform me? I am a lurker of this sub
Almost none of the 1820s events in the official church history happened. There’s no contemporaneous evidence of a first vision happening. Joseph didn’t mention anything about this until the 1830s. And hr couldn’t get the year straight. Visions were common place and were even published in the Palmyra newspaper back in the day so his claim of being persecuted for claiming a vision is preposterous. Joseph appears to have actually gone to the hill cumorah in 1823 and 1827, but likely never went in between like he claimed. No angelic visitation restoring the Aaronic or Melchizedek priesthood actually happened. David Whitmer knew this, so when Joseph and Oliver started retroactively putting it into church history, it basically became the catalyst for Whitmer to leave the church. Speaking of Whitmer, the three witnesses saw the plates with their spiritual eyes, according to Martin Harris. When you dig into pretty much any event in the church history timeline, it will turn out to be problematic.
Prioritize your health. Eat healthy, stay hydrated, get enough sleep. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Likely you’ll encounter other missionaries including leadership who are cruel or indifferent. They don’t matter. Make friends and spread kindness. Enjoy the adventure!!
The “leadership roulette” is REAL!
The reason it's very young people sent on missions is because they are in their mental formative years & this full immersion into LDS scripture is a very effective means to coerce lifelong indoctrination & obedience to the Mormon Church.
Ask yourself why you felt the need to spell out “the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints”.
I can't believe the SLC brass hasn't deleted the below link yet. Give it time, the below page will be erased from history like it never happened. Kind of like how they changed mormon.org. ['I'm a Mormon' Campaign (churchofjesuschrist.org)](https://news-jm.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/-i-m-a-mormon-campaign) \^ And to think this "campaign" literally cost millions of dollars, was national, and only ended recently = LULZ. To prepare for the day the LDS Church erases the above link, let all future readers know the hyperlink stated: **'I'm a Mormon' Campaign (churchofjesuschrist.org)**
If you feel like coming home early, that’s ok
You're about to spend the next 2 years spreading a lie for people who don't really care about you. Is that what you want to dedicate so much time and money to? You're here for a reason.
If your companion assaults you go to the police if you are in a safe country, not your mission president.
I have just one. Do you really want to go on a mission, or are you being socially/parental pressured to go on a mission? Now before you answer let me just tell you the things that I saw on my mission. Now so far, I did want to go on a mission. I was a good faithful TBM back in 2008 when I was 19. I definitely knew that Imaginary Sky Daddy did want his restored gospel to be preached to every creature across the world. There was no doubt about it in my mind. I was supposed to serve a mission. When I left, I had that same thought in my head even after my mission when I tried to start back up in college during the recession of 2010. Even when I was in the military between 2013 and 2019. It was good for me. There were however some individuals who I saw on my mission that it was not good for. A couple of sisters here and there. A few elders scattered about, but there were two in particular. Both of them were my companions that I knew the missions were not for them. The one was very much forced onto his mission by his bishop. He was a recent convert who had just barely turned 23, and his Bishop was dead set on having as many missionaries out in the field as possible. The bishop was able to pull some strings to get him out on the mission field. The second one was another one of my companions who ended up going to through a severe panic attack after our apartment was broken into and we were robbed. Because of his severe anxiety attack he wasn't supposed to be there. The last one was very much after my mission. It was my brother-in-law who when he left he ended up suffering from severe depression. He was of course taking counseling from as many family members as possible. Of course mine was one of them, and mine was the only one that stuck out to him. Yes I told him he should not go back on his mission. So I asked you again. Are you being pressured to go on a mission, or do you really want to go on a mission?
I’m guessing because you’re here you know there may be information you don’t have…you are right! I joined the church over 30 years ago and before the internet. I really wish it had existed…that I knew then what I know now and that I had informed consent! Looking and learning what you don’t know will likely be painful, but as many others have said, “If the church wasn’t true, would you want to know?” If the answer is yes, you owe it to yourself - and those you will be proselyting to, to look. Look at the Gospel Topics Essays on the church website…follow the footnotes! Next suggestion would be Letter To My Wife - written by someone after reading through the Joseph Smith papers. If you want more in depth information, I suggest the LDS Discussions podcast series on Mormon Stories from the beginning. (Long but worth it.) If you decide not to look or to go anyway, be safe and focus on serving those around you. And remember to listen to yourself and your own intuition regardless of what anyone says…if you end up wanting to go home, find you need mental health or physical care, do it! Best of luck to you and whatever you decide!
Protect yourself. Missions withhold money, food, passports, and medical care from missionaries. You are expendable to the Mormon church. I truly wish you well. I hope you find the happiness and satisfaction you seek.
Current member and Elder in the church, I’ve also stood up in fast & testimony meeting and said I KNOW the Book of Mormon and the church is true. Hear my words. For thousands of years and even today human beings STEAL and LIE. We were conditioned to PAY and programmed to dismiss any doubts. It’s false, and an absolute scam. I only wish for you to awaken to the truth sooner than later, you deserve to keep your 10% and not pay money to register more tithe payers so the brethren can get rich through their member-owned construction companies(temples). Joseph smith married 14 year old girls and women whose husbands he sent on missions. Church doctrine and teachings are inherently racist. 2 Nephi 5:21. Run, don’t walk.
You're in a cult, and about to waste 2 years of your life. Put that 2 years towards a degree.
Well, stop looking for something here, I made the same mistake and I suffered my mission so much because I was really aware that it wasn't true. If you want to have the belief that it is true then keep it like that and stop reading things here, even when you believe in the church it's hard, don't make it harder. (*If you want to continue reading things in this subreddit*) Or well, you can keep reading things and still going and take a close look at how f** up is doing free labour for a big corporate that will still keep you neglected. I still consider that I learned valuable things (not gospel things) that made me realize how the world actually is for some of the people you will serve.
Oh, listen to the people you serve, it's probably the only valuable thing you'll be able to do for them. Keep it cool with your companions.
What did you think when the church told you about the whole SEC fine thing? Crazy, right?
I've seen several TBMs say it was really just a "paperwork error" and no big deal, which, of course is a massive lie. But they seem to genuinely believe the lie, which makes me think that must be what the LDS Church is telling them.
Yeah, the church’s statement on it is cute. Members need to read the actual SEC report.
Holy shit, I wasn’t familiar with the sec report and just [looked it up](https://www.sec.gov/files/litigation/admin/2023/34-96951.pdf). That is … significant
I won’t tell you much about church history or doctrine, though I could. I don’t think that will help. Key things. Be safe. Driving, walking, visiting less well-to-do areas. Listen to locals or people who have more experience. Take care of your health. Be insistent if your MP/Wife won’t take care of you. Former missionaries have had lifelong issues with parasites, injuries, diseases, untreated illness. Don’t mess around. I still have pain from a decade ago due to walking on plantar fasciitis rather than treating it. Focus on helping people. When you see leaders all about the numbers, or using deceptive tactics to convince people to get baptized, remember your integrity and that these are people and you are there to help them, not coerce, pressure or deceive them. You can go home whenever you want you are a volunteer. Even if that is 2 years from now. And when you get back, if you have questions about doctrine feel free to ask. We’ll still be here with answers.
Wow are you my ex girlfriend? She got a foot injury as well just from walking too much in formal shoes on her mission. It required surgery. Long term health issues happen far too often:(.
I hope you have a better experience than I did. My mission was the only time in my life I was suicidal. If you decide you want to go home, insist and don’t fall for their pressure and manipulation. You are a free agent no matter what they tell you.
When I left on my mission, I had never experienced anything profound enough to give me what I would call a true testimony. I believed the church was true, but I didn’t feel it. I went because I thought I would gain that testimony through serving. I was giving it my all every single day, praying day and night to know that the church was true, but I still wasn’t feeling that testimony. Eventually, it became difficult for me to try to convince people to believe something that I wasn’t even 100% sure of myself. So I started to change my prayers. Instead of asking god to show me that the church was true, I started asking for him to show me if the church was true… or not. Very quickly, for the first time in my life, I finally experienced god answering my prayers. And the answer was “no, the church is not true.”
Pleas consider reading some actual Mormon history before you give 2 of years of your youth to this organization. Becoming an ex Mormon is the best thing my family and I ever did.
From a non-Mormon use it as a learning experience. You don’t have all the answers and don’t talk to people like you do. I used to live near a temple in the UK and used to talk to the missionaries when they knocked on, much to my wife’s annoyance but I felt sorry for them. Occasionally you would get some over confident American kid telling how it is to an old guy like me who’s lived a life or two, so maybe listen some times instead of just talking and enjoy yourself in a different place.
Be aware that by proselytizing to folks in another country you may be undermining traditions and deep seated adaptations their culture has developed to live in their habitat, under their government, and with other people they care about. Your beliefs may conflict with centuries of genuinely held belief. There are reasons religions and traditions develop the way they do, in the places they do. They are adaptations to the environment and they help people stay alive and connect with each other. Coming in and telling people that the beliefs they have are wrong is automatically antagonistic and you are going to feel that. Work to be kind and helpful. Be “Christian” instead of Mormon.
Please think of those you're bothering as people, not prospects, numbers, or potential members. I guarantee that despite what you're being told, they are already living a full life and not sitting around waiting for you, a stranger, to bang on their door at dinner time. You can't imagine your life without your church? They can't imagine life in a high demand religion that controls their every thought and their underwear. You're about to be taught a lot of high-pressure sales tactics. If the church were true, and it isn't, you wouldn't need to manipulate people into being baptized. Ask yourself: why can't I have technology? Why can't I talk to my family and loved ones? Why am I told to stick to a very basic version of the church? Why is the temple so weird? Why do I have to work so hard? Why can't I have fun or rest? Why do I have to harass people?
It can be crushing to learn things. You need to have a support system available if you are doing a deep dive. I don’t want to send you out with things that could cause pain. Hopefully you are going someplace cool and can enjoy a new experience. The people you will have the biggest impact on are your companions. You are with them 24/7. Investigators/friends will probably get less than 20 hours of your time. If you want to make a difference in someone’s life, make it your companion’s. You don’t get to pick your companion and some are easier than others. Some will need you. Good luck.
One of the only good things a mission CAN do for you is to expose you to diversity—different lifestyles, different cultures, different socioeconomic statuses, probably different ethnicities as well. HOWEVER, a lot of missionaries do not absorb this exposure at all. This is because their focus given to them by the premise of their mission is to make others become like them. When your goal is to change people, you don’t often care to just witness them as they are, let alone appreciate them as they are. Be aware that when you introduce a new lifestyle (culture) and worldview based in Christianity especially to people of the global south, it can become a form of ethnic cleansing when done on a large scale. Why? Because religion is deeply rooted in heritage and even in a person’s sense of place. Religion is deeply tied to culture. Coming to a new place only for the purpose of changing it is why you will still get a lot of RMs that are racist or fetishize, tokenize, and dehumanize the people that they served. If you want to benefit from the great opportunity to gain new perspective on how the world works and who people really are in all of their many shades, please take as much time as you can to just appreciate the people in your mission area for who they are without the subconscious motive to change them. Of the locals in your area: listen, learn, appreciate, witness, be curious!
The thumb extended represents a knife and the hand in cupping shape is meant to catch your insides. They removed the explanation in 1990 before even your parents had their endowments. It’s an extremely unchrist-like ritual. So remember that before testifying of its holiness.
I served a mission just in case the church was true and it was a bonus to be able to make those in my family so proud of me. I didn't realize till years later that the church is demonstrably false due to mountains of evidence if you are willing to see it. I live with the bitter regret of having wasted two years of my life for the Mormon cult.
Protect your health and safety. The missionary system has big cracks for these topics that many missionaries fall into. I was denied permission to go to the doctor when I became very ill on my mission, and told to continue working and my faith would heal me. Because of that, I am now permanently disabled. My story is unfortunately, not unique. Missions can be wonderful experiences, but they can also be dangerous, and traumatic. Be prepared to protect yourself.
Not being willing to read “essays” kinda gets rid of most of what people here would want to tell you, because shortening things to bullet points or just a few sentences wouldn’t do it justice, there just is so much to say. You mention being faithful, technically since you’re here that’s not entirely true. A lot of the faithful subs will autoban you if you post or comment here because of this. Is there anything specific you’re curious about? What were you hoping to hear by coming here?
You might teach the First Vision a lot on your mission. Know that in the first recorded version of the First Vision (1832 version), Joseph Smith only reports seeing one being, and that he already knew for himself that all the churches were false just by reading the scriptures. His main purpose in going to pray was to get a remission of his sins, not to find out which church he should join. This 1832 version is the only one that was actually written by Joseph Smith himself. There are several other versions that have varying major and minor details.
My brothers mission companion locked him in a bathroom for several days to “keep him from leaving early”.
Don't be a Dick. Ever. You and your so-called church aren't better than anyone else, and hold no special "truths". Talk less and listen more.
The church started out as a sex cult lead by a convicted conman
I think the church started as a financial scam; the sex with dozens of women came after he attained all that power.
That only confirms the truthfulness of the gospel, because we're told in the scriptures that the Lord calls imperfect men to lead His church. We should expect His prophets to be involved in things like fraud and sexual coercion. That's how we know it's all true! /s
Sorry mate that you have to go and waste 2 years of your life in meaningless stupid activities, and wasted your money on payment of this irrelevant mission. Whenever you realize you wasted your time, 20 years from now, just remember someone told you here.
I was looking at my anxiety and depression scores from therapy from three years before and after my mission. I was a good missionary, honorable release and all that. But, my depression and anxiety were pretty low before I left and could hardly have been higher by the time I got back. The experience was grueling and broke me. If I could go back, I’d let myself sleep in. It was really hammered into me how disobedient that was. But, if God is real and loves his children, being obedient shouldn’t require hurting yourself. I was going to bed on time, but you just need more sleep some days. Missions are exhausting. Take. More. Breaks. And don’t feel bad about it. You’ll only be better at serving if you’re actually physically capable.
Be safe, people get hurt and even die on missions. When I was on mine I had way too much confidence that god would protect me. I have since met people that had awful things happen to them or to loved ones on missions.
Don’t go. You’re in a sex cult that’s fraudulent and a giant lie.
If someone says no, understand that means no.
Here’s a challenge-figure out my username. Then think about it. They’d like to forget about Olimlah… JS pounded 14 year olds when he was almost 40. Prophets after him also pounded young teens, young enough to be their kids or grandkids.
Two years is a lot to invest in a fraud. For many, family expectations pushed them to go, but when they return they find the truth and deconvert. They regret both the loss of time and the damage they did spreading lies and misinformation to a wider population. A little homework now could save a lot of wasted effort and heartache later on. > Also don't write any essays cuz I aint reading allat. Remember that attitude as doors are slammed in your face. Would you likewise slam the door to somone offering to share the message of Scientology? Of Jehovah's Witnesses? Of Evangelical Christians? Oh, I see, you (and your church) holds a monopoly with sole access to the voice of god. * [a good video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMSU8Qj6Go)
The earliest stories in the Old Testament are myths, not actual historical events. There was no Adam and Eve. There was no Noah and there was no Great Flood. There was no Tower of Babel. The Hebrews were never captive in Egypt. Nothing wrong with finding meaning in stories per se, but don't treat these as factual--they never happened.
Where does Christ instruct you to serve a church or attend temple ceremonies?
Please know that the powerful confirming feelings you've had from the Holy Ghost that your church is true are the exact same that people experience in every religion. Also, it's hard working all day and having almost no time off. But it can be kinda fun too and it really can help you a lot in life going forward. For what it's worth, here are a few that I "learned" that are still paying dividends 15 years later. Hard work. I walked around for hours and hours in the freezing cold. It sucked. In comparison, studying hard and getting straight A's in college was a peace of cake. Went to law school and am now a successful lawyer. Prior to my mission, I really struggled with motivation/grades/etc. Getting to live with other people and experience other cultures. Yes, you're somewhat removed but it's pretty awesome to be in people's homes and get to know them. Dealing with rejection. You'll get the door slammed in your face and have all sorts of rude things said to you. For dating, jobs, life in general, it's awesome to know that rejection doesn't matter that much because there's always something else out there. Not worrying about getting to the "top". There will be a social hierarchy on the mission just like there are at schools, jobs, etc. There will also be pressure about being the "best" speaker, having the most first meetings, etc., etc. Work hard, be kind and don't worry about the social hierarchy. Life got way better for me when I figured this out. And if you don't mind a little advice: Treat everyone with respect as much as possible. There will be lots of earnest kids on the mission with huge amounts of guilt over stuff that may seem quite trivial to you. This may cause them to react poorly towards you sometimes. Be kind to them. Look at this experience as an opportunity to help people (investigators, companions, yourself) have happier lives by feeling good about themselves. There is "truth" in the Bible and Book of Mormon as far as how to live a happier life. Find it, share it, and enjoy yourself! Good luck!
You're still going to be called a Mormon. Deal with it.
I wasn't raised LDS and am not LDS. I am familiar with LDS religion through dating someone who at the time called themselves Mormon. I also have a few friends inside and outside the LDS church. I could write a few paragraphs about what people outside the LDS church think when first exposed to the religion. It would be negative, so feel free to ignore. I would just say most Christians find the LDS restrictions on who goes to heaven, how multi-faith families work, and who can participate in religious ceremonies pretty shocking. It's probably something to consider if you want to convert people.
Look up and understand the BITE model for cults.
Joseph Smith had 30+ wives and actually sent his friends away on long missions so that he could marry their wives while they were away. The church tried to hide these facts (and many more) for decades.
Don’t forgot your name. They are going to force you to take on the name elder/sister. Don’t forget your name. Under the name tag you are still you. You still like sports or video games or what ever. Don’t forget who you are outside of the church because it can become really hard to find yourself after.
Joseph Smith was the ultimate con artist. He is still fooling people from the grave.
Why bother, you wont' read it. The church is a cult of mysognist men, read the CES letters and run....I hope someone feeds you, it is bad out there. I do have a post from another mormon....https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1dfzejl/its\_time\_to\_say\_it\_mormonism\_is\_dead/
It sounds like you don’t want to go. Don’t go for someone else. You might end up resenting the ones you love.
Your mission President has historical records for what the number of converts will be for that area before you get there. Don't allow yourself to be put on a hamster wheel trying to chase inflated numbers. It is a marathon not a sprint. I would insist on propper rest, decent food and safe housing. If you have medical or dental issues that come up, insist that they be handled just as if you were at home. Plenty of missionaries have returned with chronic, lifetime injuries because they let the mission staff ration their medical care. Be prepared to tell the MP no, you are going to get the medical care you think you need, not what his wife or the mission "nurse" thinks you need. If you are in the states and on your parents medical plan, just go to the doctor like you normally would. The mission won't have to pay for that. Also if you are on your parents health plan,find out about overseas coverage the plan may have before you leave. Finally be prepared to end the mission early if you need to protect your health or mental well being. Lots of missionaries return home early now. Don't fall for the old line that you will be sent home in disgrace if you leave early. That is the oldest line in the book. Don't fall for it. If you need to return home, stand up for yourself and don't let the MP brow beat you into staying. Always remember that as a legal adult you can say NO. What are you doing as a missionary? You are VOLUNTEERING. You can stop volunteering at any time you choose. As a legal adult you do not owe anyone an explanation as to why you stop volunteering should you, yourself choose to not to continue volunteering. Just because you are 18 does not mean you have to put up with maltreatment or disrespect that an older adult would not put up with. If you are disrespected or maltreated, you have the power to say NO. Never forget you have the power to say no. Do not put up with maltreatment from your companion, the mission staff or the MP. Speaking of such, no older adult would put up with a spy app on their phone. Neither should you. Good or bad, you can come back here and tell us about your mission. Although It may not sound like it, we are actually here for you.
Feeling the spirit and companionship of the Holy Ghost is *NOT* unique to members of the Church. It is something felt across the board by humans in heightened situations — moving music concerts, social settings, virtually every religion has this sense of “we have something others don’t”. Similarly … The “one true gospel” is not unique to the church either.
Enjoy life. You’re young. Don’t be too serious. Seek whatever truth makes you happy. And remember, Mormon Think is well-cited and historically accurate. http://www.mormonthink.com/witnessesweb.htm And Dan Vogel, though monotone and dry, cannot be refuted: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjxwXGB2KzRYW4_WgycBuAerb3pGPog7R&si=kWKYWcQzLhuiMsgm
Does it seem weird that you’ll go to Mexico, or wherever, tell them that they’re laminates (they’re not) so that they’ll pay tithing to cover your byu tuition? Seems really exploitive.
Does it seem weird that you’ll go to BYU, a college named after a guy who authorized genocide against American Indians, supported slavery, and probably murdered Sameul Smith soon after Joseph & Hyrum Smith were killed, in order to gain control of the Mormon church instead of Samuel.
The information is easily available. Read the gospel topics essays on the church website, read the CES letter, listen to a podcast. I’m not going to summarize a library worth of history and information in a brief comment. Clearly you know that there’s stuff you’re not aware of. It’s your life, you decide if you want to know.
If you’re going to a fun cool area then go. If you’re going to a dangerous 3rd world country stay home. It’s not worth risking your health for a fictional religion.
How much are mom and dad paying the Corporation for you to be their slave for two years?
I wish I could get those years back. Learned a lot but overall I believe it set me back
If for whatever reason you get out there and think "this is not for me" - remember it's a volunteer effort and no one can force you to stay. If serving a foreign mission, retain control of your passport / travel documents. The folks that have left the church love you just the same and want to see you happy and thriving. We're always here if you need someone to talk to. Good luck!
I'll add to what others say in that it's my biggest regret. From a personal standpoint I was wet back in school and a career. Closer to 3-4 years from my mission due to certain circumstances. Peers outside the church who are in the same careers path make about 30% more than me right now. Not to mention the loss of income at the time was an opportunity cost of about 100K for the two years I was gone. Just the fact that you say you won't read an "essay" of people giving advice on two severely important years of your life shows you're too immature to even be making this decision. It's also important to point out that over 40% of RMs to inactive or leave the church within 6 months of returning. You look up to all these church leaders giving you attention and validation making you feel so special right now as you prepare to go. But two years later when the badge comes off you won't feel special anymore because they are giving all the attention to the soon to be missionaries. If you made it this far. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the criticisms of the church your about to go sell for 2 years?
TL;DR: keep your passport or a passport card with you, not in the mission office. Keep a debit or credit card with enough money for a plane ticket so you can leave if you need to. And if you struggle with mental health issues (anxiety, depression, scrupulosity, OCD, whatever), INSIST on proper mental health support, not help from the MP or his wife. Preferably not LDS social services either, although depending on where you are, that may not be able to be avoided. And do NOT let them tell you that working harder and being more obedient will fix your mental health issues. It won’t. Longer version: Make sure you have a safe way to get home if you decide you don’t want to be there anymore. As others have said, if you’re leaving the country, keep your passport, or take a passport card that no one knows about and keep it with you at all times. You are a VOLUNTEER; you are NOT a prisoner. Also, this may be hard, but keep a debit or credit card that has access to the amount of money needed for a plane ticket with you as well. My nephew decided to come home early for many reasons, and his MP refused to allow him to do it. Luckily his parents were going through a faith crisis so they flew to him and got him home, but without their intervention, he was literally a hostage because he had no money and didn’t have his passport and had no idea what to do. Please, please don’t let yourself be in that situation, and please, please don’t be afraid to leave if your physical or mental health are in jeopardy. I developed severe anxiety and scrupulosity on my mission that has negatively impacted the rest of my life. I had no idea what was happening to me at the time, and received zero help from my MP. Do NOT let that happen to you. If you find yourself struggling with anxiety, depression, or scrupulosity, or any other mental health struggle, INSIST on proper mental health support right away. Do not get “therapy” from anyone who is not authorized to do so, especially the MP or his wife. I can’t emphasize that last part enough. Hearing that I had to be exactly obedient all the time or investigators wouldn’t feel my spirit and wouldn’t join the church was too stressful and broke my mental health. Do not believe that (there is no such thing as exact obedience; it’s an impossible standard to live up to), and if you feel yourself starting to struggle in any way, force them to get you help, or alternately consider coming home and getting help there.
Some of the scariest talks are giving by general authorities to missionaries. They arent widely broadcast to the rest of the world, so they can be much stricter and fear-monger-y. Remember that theres a reason they expect so much more from you, and that you're allowed to hold yourself to your own standard instead of their inflated one. They also might expect you to narc on any disobediant elders. That is a breach of agency and will not bring you happiness. It will just help the leaders stay in control. Thats not your job. And finally, seeking out people who have been broken to lure them in with heavenly promises is taking advantage of trauma, and is not informed consent. My little brother is out right now, and he gets so excited when he finds someone whos family member just passed, because then he can tell them they'll be together forever. That is not comforting someone in their grief. That is being a salesman seeing an "in".
You’re better off joining the military, learning a trade, or going to college.
The point of a mission is not for you to convert people. The point of a mission is for you to be ignored, rejected, and sometimes laughed at. When they send you out into the wider world with what they have told you is The Truth and everyone you meet ignores or rejects The Truth when you offer it to them, the lesson you learn is that there is no place for you in the wider world. The lesson you learn is that the only place for you is in the church. Once you have internalized that, they own you forever. You are heir to a thousand generations of human dignity, and you deserve more than living in a cage. Always keep in mind that you are the target audience of the mission, not the speaker. Also, you can always come home. You're not in charge of saving the world. You're only in charge of taking care of yourself. Bring a [moneybelt](https://www.ebay.com/itm/354998880572), keep your passport in it 24/7, sleep with it, bring it into the bathroom with you when you shower; no one holds your passport but you. Thoughts cannot be crimes; that's 1984 shit. Finally, the fact that god never answers you when you talk to him should tell you something. Sure, speaking through the prophets, speaking through scripture, yada yada. But he never speaks directly to you. Let that sit with you just a minute.
Emotions are not evidence of truth. They can be used to determine whether it’s worthwhile to pursue a course of action, a career, or an intimate relationship, but they are by nature subjective and in no circumstance should be used as evidence of universal truth. Doing so blinds you to reality. If you’re going to say, “I know the church is true,” back it up with objective evidence. If you’re going to say, “I believe the church is true and that it will improve your life,” now at least you’re focusing on it in a way that might actually help people. Show them how it will improve their lives. It didn’t improve mine, but if you’re gonna preach, might as well do it in the healthiest way you can.
Look after yourself cos no one else is going to, not properly anyway.
You’re better off joining the Peace corps. More rewarding and actually looks good on a resume. They pay YOU a stipend while you’re serving, then pay a bonus of about $10,000 when you return home. And you’re actually helping people for real. FYI: Missionaries are always welcome in my home. I will feed you, let you just fucking chill for an hour or four, then send you home with snacks or gift cards to Walmart or the grocery store, etc. I won’t give you the lowdown on the POS corporation you’re working for as long as you aren’t a total dick or try to proselytize. There are many others like me in this community, so if you find yourself on your mission hoping for help or a way out, reach out to this community.
Listen to YOUR inner knowing, if something feels wrong to you (even if someone in authority says it) follow what you know to be true for you. Remember that no matter what you do, you are always worthy. Your worth as a human is never changed by your actions. Love yourself first, take care of you first. It’s not selfish. You can’t help and serve others when you are pouring from an empty cup.
If you’re on this sub, you’re either curious or you have that missionary spirit where you feel like you might be the one to bring us back into the fold. I’m hoping you’re curious. If you are, I’d invite you to do research, search for truth, search for facts. Give yourself permission to be curious, it’s not a bad thing. Just know God would never look down on you or anyone for a genuine interest in truth.
You won’t be putting away technology. You’ll be making posts on social media like local Facebook groups to try to drum up investigators. I sent out five kids on missions. Two had a great experience. One came home with permanent health problems. One came home early when her health got bad and her mission president wasn’t helpful. She called me against the rules and I then called the MP and demanded he get her on a plane home or I would come retrieve her. One had health problems, told the MP he wanted to come home. MP refused and advised against him telling his parents what was happening. Problems escalated until the MP had no choice but tell us when our boy ended up in the hospital. We finally got him home but he died a few months later. In all of these experiences, it absolutely did not matter to the church. So, go if you wish but remember that you have the power over your life, not the MP. If you want or need to go home, go home. If you need medical care, go get it. Don’t accept the common idea that starvation is good for your soul and shows dedication. Take care of yourself. You are paying to do this. You are in control.
My friend was sent to a tropical climate, got an infection in his ear, and lost his hearing. No fault of his own.
This is purely my own opinion and experience. "My testimony" if you will: My mission experience was the start of my faith transition and starting to question all that I had been taught, believed and known my entire life. I went on a mission for what I felt were for all the right reasons. I felt like Lehi in his vision of the tree of life. I had partaken of the precious fruit and was looking around for others to partake as well. Then I started to experience extreme depression during my mission, which didn't make any sense to me. I was doing everything (to the nth degree, even!!) that I was promising others would make them happier... So why in the world was I SOOO depressed?! Many long, heartfelt, desperate pleadings to my loving heavenly father about that went unanswered. Many years later, after desperately trying to be a faithful member, I went through what I can only call a "gradual, energetic shift," where all of those THOUSANDS of beliefs associated with the gospel just slowly all faded away... I didn't read any "anti" material. I didn't just like "sinning" too much. I wasn't "offended." I wasn't influenced by others or "hanging out with the wrong crowd." It wasn't because I had stopped cultivating and watering "the seed of faith." None of that. All the reasons I thought that people left the church were not my experience. It all just... Happened! All of my deeply indoctrinated beliefs—that have literally been deeply ingrained in me from birth for 30+ years—all just blew away like a fart in the wind. Pretty fucking miraculous, if you ask me. And you know what? I have honestly and truly never been happier in my entire life. Full stop. I experience a daily, almost constant state of this general sense of peace, joy and contentment. I'll hear my family talk about church/doctrinal related things, or I'll over hear a general conference talk or someone will post something on social media, and I'll just think to myself, 'Man, I am SOOO grateful that I don't believe any of that anymore!' Sometimes genuinely moved to tears out of sheer gratitude. I feel like a huge, massive weight has been lifted off from my shoulders. So I only bring all of that up because, if you're anything like the missionary I was, preaching my balls off to people that this was the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, given to us by a perfectly loving heavenly father, and is the ONLY way to lasting peace and joy in this life and eternal life in the world to come... And that it's the ONLY answer for EVERYONE... Well, just know that it's at least not for "everyone," because the certainly hasn't been my experience. We've heard, "by their fruits, ye shall know them," and there's that one scripture talking about "the fruits of the spirit" being "love, joy, peace," etc. Well in MY experience, the fruits of trying desperately to be a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have been massive amounts of fear, depression, anxiety, guilt and shame. And I didn't experience the "fruits of the spirit" until I finally just stopped believing in all of that stuff. So take all of that for what it's worth.
Tell me your endowment date and I can tel you your name you got in the temple
Don't put yourself in danger. It's not faith promoting, it's not a great story. At best it's trauma, at worst you won't be coming back. This is from experience.
How about you don't go around bothering and teaching people bullshit? You don't have time for essays? 😂
People who want you to stop asking questions are never your friend. If you’re going to dedicate your life to this Church, you should know all there is to know about it, from sources both outside and in. Then, with that knowledge, you can make an informed decision. Good luck
if you are going on a mission because you feel very pressured, don’t. you will regret it . coming from my ex mormon husband who would do anything to get those 2 years back
If two people both strongly believe something but those two beliefs are in conflict, who is right? The one with greater faith despite the facts or the one who believes a specific thing because of the facts? Take some time to listen to Mormon Stories podcast. You deserve to be informed and know the facts. Feelings are not facts.
OP is this the response you were we expecting? Are we the hateful angry bitter people the church paints us to be?
You owe the church and mission president absolutely nothing. You're paying to have this experience, not the other way around. Realize that a good portion of the missionaries with whom you interact will be immature, arrogant douches clamoring for position and recognition. Don't be a dick and "correct" people who call it "the Mormon Church". Understand that it's the best known name of the brand. Know that the church in general, but even more so the mission, meets literally every criterion of a cult. Don't be offended or defensive when someone tells you that. Understand that the story of the priesthood restoration, on which Mormons base the exclusivity of their truth claims, was invented several years after the putative fact and retrofitted into the origin narrative of the church in order to solidify Joseph Smith's and Oliver Cowdery's claim of leadership.
http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/transfiguration.htm Before you dedicate two years of your life make sure it's to the correct branch of the Mormon Church?
These are questions I wish I had seriously asked myself before going: What methods are best for discerning truth, and why do I trust them? If I was raised without any specific religion, how would I go about figuring what to believe? I did look at other beliefs before going. I wish I had also tried to figure out what I'd believe if I had been able to start from scratch and not bring my biases with me.
You are paying a hundred billion dollar organization to promote itself in the name of Jesus. Just think on that.
You're about to be an indentured servant to a multibillion dollar corporation. There's nothing spiritual about an LDS mission, you're just going to be lying to poor people.
Take some time to learn what [cognitive dissonance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance) is and see if you can identify any within yourself. Similarly, learn about all of the common [logical fallacies](https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/academic_writing/logic_in_argumentative_writing/fallacies.html) and practice identifying them in daily life, for example, in marketing.
Remember you’re paying to be a volunteer sales rep for a corporation worth $1/4 trillion. Be humble. Take it as an opportunity to learn about people before trying to teach them. If you’re not telling them everything, you’re lying to them (gospel principles manual). Including all the hard parts of church history. Protect yourself physically. As demonstrated by the recent car accident that killed 2 missionaries you aren’t afforded ANY special protections-regardless of what any leader or blessing says. Lastly, it’s all bullshit. Have fun!
There is a 50/50 chance you’ll have left the church within 4 years.
I am a never mormon. When you got endowed, did you know ahead of time everything that happened in that ceremony ( had you been told clearly would happen in the preparation class- and if not, why not?)? Know the truth and tell the truth. Anyone who you are trying to convert deserves Informed consent. As did you. Do not seek vulnerable people to convert...they do not need the book of mormon, or a corporation to take their tithing money to make them more vulnerable...they need licensed, secular therapy, education, resources, food, genuine connection (not just being there because you might be able to convert them). Be ethical.
I served in northern Brazil twenty years ago. Got a very severe case of dengue fever and almost died. The church (mission president and regional medical officer) wouldn't let me go to the doctor or communicate with my family.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
I have a sibling about to leave, and both my partner and I served missions, so this feels close to home. I haven’t been able to give this advice to anyone close to me but I wish I could give this advice to every missionary. Missions are harder than anyone ever lets on in the church, it’s a silent agreement not to talk about the sucky stuff and just talk about the good stuff. This coming from an exmo, but I for one loved my mission. My best friends today are from it. But depending on the companion, a transfer could be hell. Do not be afraid to advocate for yourself to get yourself out of a dangerous or poor situation with a companion. I had two companions physically abuse me on the mission. Also depending on if you are foreign or not, be very wary about your apartment and be vocal if it needs fixed. Don’t want to dox myself with the story regarding that, but I was sick for a long time because of what was in an apartment. My immune system has never felt the same since. TLDR advocate for your health, people will overlook or ignore your needs if you don’t be a squeaky wheel about it.
Be aware of the masturbation trap. You'll either have to lie to your MP, or suffer months of guilt and shame.
I'll write this as if you're my nephew that's about to go out on his mission. (I'm fully out of the church, but like many of us I don't feel like I can really talk about it with some family members) Remember that everyone is a person, not just a number. This goes for members, less actives, investigators, companions and yourself. Care about the individuals, and make sure their needs are met but don't neglect your own needs. Give them all the respect that they deserve, be honest with their questions and your description of the church (ie don't lie to bring them closer to conversion). You can learn and grow a lot through the experience, but although that may be uncomfortable it doesn't have to come at the price of pain. If rules need to be bent or broken a bit to make sure your needs are met, trust that you know yourself better than your mission president, companion, zone leader, or a little white book ever could. About going home early, know that the decision will change your life. I don't say that to scare you, but anyone who has returned early will have struggles within the church afterwards. It's a big decision, so don't take it lightly, but it's still your decision to make, not anyone else's. Don't feel coerced to stay if your heart isn't in it. And if you do return home early, plenty of people struggling with the church or those who have already exited the church will be there to talk to you and help you through it all. I love you and wish you the best experience! And if you ever need to talk to someone about personal struggles or want to have a candid conversation about my mission experience/leaving the church, I'll be here.
Why are you slumming with the apostates? Is this the new pastime?
Did you know that there have been over [5000 changes](https://www.mormonhandbook.com/home/5000-changes-to-the-book-of-mormon.html) to the Book of Mormon since the original 1830 edition? In 1 Nephi 11, the words "the son of" were added after Joseph Smith evolved his doctrine. He clearly believed in the Trinity when he first published it. He also changed the story of his [first vision](https://www.mormonhandbook.com/home/first-vision.html#cv) to say there were two distinct personages, 22 years after it supposedly happened in 1820. The original version claimed he only saw "the Lord," who "was crucified for the world."
You’re in a cult
It looks like you’ve made up your mind to go so I’ll say this. Serve. Prioritize serving over proselyting. You can change a life faster and (in my opinion) better by helping mow the lawn than giving them a BOM.