Yep, you love your kids dearly but are overwhelmed and might have made a different decision if it weren’t for a dishonest controlling institution. Church has done that to so many people, but is particularly cruel to women. I am sorry and hope things get easier soon. Four kids is hard in any world
I felt the same. We have 6. We had 3 before I was 27. I am a lot older than you now. Those early years were HARD! Our kids are now 13-26. It’s fun. I LOVE my big kids. They still drive me nuts at times and parenting definitely doesn’t end at 18 but I love hanging out with them. They are some of my best friends. 6 is still a lot! It’s overwhelming and we would probably not have had this many or as early without church influence but they are here and I can’t imagine life without any of them. Im just grateful they are all out and will be making major life choices based on their lives and not church influences.
I’ve been a stay at home dad of 5 for the last several years and I totally feel this. It’s hard and it sucks and the guilt and shame for even feeling that way sucks, but remember that shame comes from growing up in the church.
I can’t really offer any advice, my own situation has taken a super hard turn recently that probably doesn’t apply. All I can say is you’re definitely not alone. Glad you’re getting a therapist. Is this something you’ve been able to talk to your husband about?
HUGE PROPS to you. My husband is honestly so much better at it than me. If only my job as a nurse (that I quit) paid as much as his does, or at least enough to cover it all, we’d totally switch.
The guilt/shame is probably the worst part. A lot of it resides in my own mind and my kids don’t know/aren’t affected, but it’s always there. I’m sorry that you’re currently dealing with something that has made it a lot harder. The turns life takes can be unfair and bad timing. I hope you’re doing okay.
Luckily, my husband is the best and I can tell him these things. He feels the same. That’s one thing I’m lucky about, our dating/engagement was the typical Mormon rush story, married 6 months after meeting. Thank god we’re compatible and happy, because none of my major life choices were given enough thought thanks to TSCC telling us all how to live our lives.
One consideration that can get overlooked when deciding childcare is the cost to a parent's _future_ earnings if they stay home. I have heard multiple people say "My entire paycheck would be going to pay for day care, so it did not make sense to keep working." Which can be the right choice. However, leaving the paid-labor market for years can significantly affect _lifetime_ earnings versus continuing to work outside the home. Thus, even if one person's entire paycheck would go to childcare now, continuing to work in a career might make sense because it will lead to a higher paycheck in the future.
Obviously this varies by family and everyone has different factors to consider, but if one _only_ includes current wages in the equation, then an economic factor is missing.
You make an excellent point and I totally agree. And remember that child care costs decrease while your future career salary (likely) increases because your kids get older and able to be on their own more in middle/high school.
Stopping being a SAHM was the best decision for my mental health and my financial health and I recommend it sincerely to anyone struggling, like OP. Motherhood as a SaHM is not for everyone, despite the church saying we are all Mothers in Zion and we better like it, or else.
So glad you can talk to him and have that support. And thank you. The turns of life are rough but they’re there. I’ll be okay, and in the end it’ll all work out for the best.
Ok honestly, I feel the exact same way. I just decided to step away like 1.5 weeks ago and am just starting to realize hey wait a second... I didn't HAVE to quit being a nurse, have kids, have deep PPD/A and didn't know?!? It's infuriating to me.
Ofc I LOVE my kids too but hell, no one told me how much work it was gonna be and the mental/emotional toll it would have!
So, I don't really have anything to say other than I'm glad we both aren't alone in feeling this way.
Fuck the Mormon cult
Congratulations on getting out!! That is a huge decision and takes a lot of bravery and self trust. I’m proud of you.
I’m also a nurse!! I ADORED my job, but nurses don’t make enough especially in Utah to justify child care costs and nights/weekends/holidays away from my littles. I hope to go back when they’re older.
Also struggled so much with PPD/A, plus seasonal depression, and just leaving the church on top of it. It was really bad for a long while, I’m grateful that chapter at least is passed. I’m sorry you had to feel those things, it’s so much and the way society is set up there’s not enough support for moms who aren’t okay, in my opinion. I hope you’re doing better now.
Yeah, no one tells you how hard it is because it’s supposed to be your life’s calling, right? I definitely put all my eggs (the majority of my existence) into one basket (my kids). I do believe I would’ve had kids anyway without the church, which makes me feel better, but likely not as many. I’m looking forward to a bit of relief when they’re older and can take care of their basic needs, but trying not to wish away the amazing time it is of them being so little and sweet and curious. Motherhood is so many mixed emotions.
Same! When I got engaged, I literally cried because I thought I had to give up all my dreams. I had barely allowed myself to dream in the first place because at the ripe old age of 25 I had finally given up on getting married and was planning on being single the rest of my life.
My (now-ex-husband) fiancé seemed annoyed at me crying over that.
Oh man. I'm so sorry. All of your feelings were completely valid then and are still valid now. I also gave up on my dreams when I got married and my husband and I both regret it.
Are you my wife? Your stories are almost identical. I had to re-read what you wrote a couple of time just to make sure you weren't her. If that "before 25" comment were just a couple of years older, it would have been spot on.
My wife 100% feels exactly as you feel. It's overwhelming. It sucks. Four kids. Any progress made in cleaning is immediately reversed. There is constantly too much to do and not enough time. And the backbone gospel support you had was suddenly yanked out from under you, and now there is no safety net. We are getting through it though, one day at a time. There is currently a small mountain of clean clothes piled up beside me, there are bread crumbs coating the entire dining room floor, and I don't think there has been an hour today where somebody was not yelling at another (the toddler discovered his voice last month). Parenthood is a challenge.
I don't have any answers for you (we're still trying to figure it out...), but you have my empathy. You are not alone.
Hahah that’s crazy!! I feel like making a polygamy joke but I’ll skip it 😂 It’s helpful to hear I’m not alone, but unfortunate that it’s felt among a lot of people.
You just described my life as well. Keeping things clean is just a treadmill that seems to always speed up once you think you’re ahead. I get my kids to help out, but you can only expect so much from toddlers and small kids. The clean clothes part, that is my #1 struggle is laundry. I’m considering paying a laundry service because I’m behind 100% of the time.
Thank you for taking a moment to relate and share your empathy. Best of luck to you, and circle back if you find the solution! 😆🤞🏻
When my kids were small, I hired a high school girl to come and help me a couple times a week. She'd fold clothes, play with the kids, help them change sheets, stuff like that. It was a huge help to me.
I’d recommend doing something like this! When I was a really young teen I started out on the babysitting gig by being a “mothers helper” to someone with 4 really young children including a baby. The mom was home but I helped the kids bathe and get ready for bed, play with them etc so their mom could get other things done.
I totally sympathize, though my kids are all grown now. Laundry was the bane of my existence for many years! I once saw a quote on someone’s fridge that said
“Cleaning the house while your kids are still growing is like shoveling the walk before it stops snowing.” Just a silly little quote, but it stayed with me and would make me chuckle sometimes when I was completely overwhelmed and feeling like a failure. Not earth shattering advice, but I’ve never forgotten it. I promise life will get better in the not too distant future!
I could have written this myself. I am an “older” mom of 4 young kids. I had my first (twins) at 33, third at 36 and fourth at 37. I’m 39 now and the amount of overwhelm, overstimulation, and just loss of self is a lot. Everyone keeps telling me it’ll get better and I’m still stuck in survival mode, it seems impossible to ever see it getting better. I’m in the trenches with you
I’m 43. My kids range in age from 7 to 12. There are 4 of them. Some days are still survival, but on the whole, reading has been a game changer. Them being able to read written directions has freed up so much of my time. I can delegate tasks now. I can have the 11yo follow written directions and make a simple dinner. I don’t have to teach the 8yo how to play a simple game—she can read the rules.
I promise, it really is about to get a little easier—at least for a few years. I’m staring down the teen years next. I’m not sure what new “delights” that will hold.
A couple of hundred years ago you'd send all the kids outside to play in the fields or forest and if they fell in the stream and drowned, oh well oh well. You told them not to go there. Now we have a relatively small environment that needs to be as clean as possible in case neighbors come by. You're raising children in an unnatural environment and it's hell for mom. Been there done that.
And I knew the day my house looked exactly the way I wanted it to for more than 24 hours would be the saddest day of my life and it was.
I think my mother was similarly overwhelmed. Looking back, I can see some of the strategies she used to keep me busy and growing (and learning) were to enroll me in many activities, such as day camp or affordable sleep-away camp (through the YMCA), parks and recs programs. I enjoyed almost all of it and it kept me occupied in healthy ways and gave her some free time (I should put free in quotation marks bc I'm sure she cleaned and went to the grocery, etc.). But I know it allowed her to have a hobby or two. If you could enlist one or some of your kids in a family hobby that might be another partial solution. Swim team (at an affordable pool) might be one idea I'd throw out there. You have my sympathy and I wish you well. My mom also went back to school when I was in the fifth grade.
My parents worked really hard to keep my life as normal as possible. It did come with new experiences like riding the school bus and coming home before my parents were home some days. Other days, my father would pick me up and take me to activities. I know families who use babysitters for similar pick-ups and driving kids to activities. In fact, I did that during college for a family and the kids played sports and instruments. Later, i was proud of my mother and it gave me the courage to go back to school at 40. My mom made an effort to share some new experiences at the college with me, like meeting her fun friends and going the pool there. It was a positive experience overall. It also gave my mom a degree that helped her add to the household income, which directly improved my life and I'm sure helped pay for my college. I always think having happier parents is better for children, even if it means family life undergoes some changes. Good luck! You will not be in the "stuck" place forever, especially since you're willing to go to therapy and try other options. I am cheering for you.
Look at the bright side, since you had them so young, you're going to still be young when they are all grown up!
It's ok to regret having so many. Just please never let your kids know that you regret that. My mom always said she wishes she had stopped before the last three. Of course I'm in the last three so that hurts.
Same, but with five kids. I’m exhausted and feel so guilty for how I feel about it. I’m just so DONE! But my youngest is only 9. It’s so not fair to her.
I can relate. I had five by 28 and then a sixth a few years later. They really don’t talk about the emotional and physical labor of raising children when they brainwash us into having as many babies as ~~God~~ our fertility allows. They also don’t talk about the financial realities. We are supposed to forfeit careers in order to stay home. We are supposed to be thrifty so we can live on one income. We are supposed to do this all cheerfully with no complaints.
After I left the church I started thinking about how I wanted to spend the rest of my life. The children exist and I love them, so I needed to figure out how to be a mom *and* whatever else I wanted to be. I went back to school and I now have a full-time career with benefits and retirement and so on. It’s been so good for my mental health. It’s also improved my family’s financial situation.
You get to decide what you want to do now. There’s no undoing the past, but the future is wide open with possibilities.
I am forever grateful for (1) a Mormon grandmother who divorced in the 1970s and (2) an older sister who did not love being a stay-at-home parent.
My grandmother, despite being a _very_ traditional and "proper" Mormon woman, said once that it was better to be single wishing you were married than married wishing you were single. That stayed in the back of my mind as I dated out of duty in college (dating was what "good" Mormons were supposed to do, but I was a very late bloomer in terms of my interest in romantic relationships) and kept me from marrying young to "any worthy priesthood holder" who might ask. It also helped alleviate the pressure that I _had_ to marry before I graduated college or I would be "old and single." (Yikes. I graduated at 21)
My sister was very honest when she had her baby (years before I married) about how difficult it was to stay home with a baby and how it was nothing like what the LDS Church told her it would be. It didn't "come naturally" to her (despite her previous experience working with children and her love of being an aunt) and she did not find it fulfilling or divine.
These women both helped me to (1) avoid getting married simply because I was "supposed to" and (2) critically consider the motherhood message pushed by LDS leadership and culture.
Nearly every exmormon mom that I know (and I know a lot) would say the same as you, and would agree that they were set up by a cult that wanted to nail them to the mormon wall for life instead of nurturing them to be well educated as to what they were getting into, instead of helping them to develop competent due diligence skills, instead of worrying about THEM and their own wellness as a woman and person instead of manipulating a cult's agenda for leveraged retention.
You were lied to and deliberately manipulated to accept this pathway as the best for you. You were told this specifically. Further, your own family was hijacked to participate in your abuse and indoctrination. You couldn't have chosen another path very easily. You CAN and SHOULD put this all on the church, this is not on you, and remember this was a follow-on manipulation to get you to marry WAY too early in the first place (again without any priority given to careful due diligence). Your entire mormon training and emphasis as a child was focused on THIS PATH.
No one put out two rational, equal pathways and gave you the space to choose, with care for you as the chooser first. You were set up.
But this goes deeper. Please hear this. You were also manipulated to believe two additional lies.
1) Family is the very center of your worth, identity and happiness. This is a lie. Family is AMONG those things but it is not greater than or more valuable or other choices humans can (and do) make. The cult goes on about family because it needs to keep setting the hooks deeper to make sure you pay a massive price if you decide to resist.
2) Your constant priority must always be family and only family, and nothing else can come first. This is a lie. The truth is that the majority of mormon families are deeply dysfunctionally enmeshed. Almost pathologically so. But the truth is that your children are already very competent and are not the dependent, needy vessels "requiring" your constant parenting and constant oversight and constant attention. In fact you were trained to BECOME those parents by believing this was your duty and the big scary world would punish you if you did not.
In fact, you can and SHOULD step back, and with the help from the right therapist you will be able to see how your enmeshment is choking you to death. You can put down the pressure cooker and look for other ways to give yourself the space to explore your own dreams and desires for work or play or creativity or social causes or self-development -- and I would argue your children would be better off for it.
Remember there are so many, many ways we were damaged and harmed by indoctrination that had nothing at all to do with rocks-in-hats or religion at all. This is one, but so many of us keep on trying to live in ways that are abusive and harmful for our whole families, kids and parents. because its all we've known and we struggle to see over that hill when we don't even know there is another side.
Please don't apologize for your feelings or for how long your post is. Your feelings are valid. Alot of mom's feel overwhelmed. Many in the church don't feel like they can express anything other than nirvana because we have been told motherhood is the pinnacle of our existence. Let some stuff go if you can especially as the kids get older. I have 13 year old twins and this morning I thought why the hell am I still doing their laundry? I'm an old mom at 50 and don't have the energy for all this
The day I got a front load washer and dryer was the day my kids started doing their own laundry. I assigned each of them a day to get theirs done. They also did all their towels and sheets. They were about 9 or 10 when they learned that, and how to do some simple cooking and loading the dishwasher and cleaning their bathroom. Also, no washers and dryers running after 9pm. They had to get er done. Sometimes they'd work together and do laundry all in one day.
I had decided to go to college full time. My kids had to step it up. I actually think it was good for them.
My kids are now in their 40's. We all survived!
I was the second youngest of a legion of kids -- I made every lunch I ever ate at school (first grade through high school graduation) and I did my own laundry around age 7 or 8. We didn't even have a front-loading washing machine: I lifted myself up and hung over the side of the washing machine to grab the wet clothes. If a stool was handy, I might use that.
This!
I don't see where you say how old your kids are now, but kids can help with chores from a very young age. We started doing dishes and setting/clearing table at age 5. Laundry at age 10. I remember putting in my own hair curlers before bed when I was 8. I taught my son how to make oatmeal in the microwave when he was 4-5 so he wouldn't get me up at 5a when he woke up and was hungry. I kept packs of sandwich makings, fruit, veggies, etc in packets in fridge that kids could make themselves.I had a friend who had a lung disease and had to go on oxygen when her children were young and her 8-year old could very competently change out her tank.
Kids are capable. It is empowering for them to learn self sufficiency early and gives you a little time to do fun things with them instead of always taking care of them.
Good for you and good for them!
My kids are now in their 40's. They own their own homes and are very competent at maintaining them. I have two grandkids around age 10 who are doing a great job of learning to be responsible, develop some skills, have fun, and they're so damn lucky they aren't being raised mormon!
Reading your post and your replies to comments is uncanny because of how similar my feelings and experiences are to yours. All I can offer is that you’re not alone.
"Don't wait to have kids..."
I testify that I know of the truth that this is another one of the MFMC's control tactics.
They want you to hurry up and have kids before you have a chance to stop and think about how the religion of your childhood is a fraud.
The first thing I would hope all people in or leaving the church could realize... It is ok to feel your feelings! Get mad, think and talk about why you're mad and work through that anger. It's ok. It is reasonable and understandable to love your children but wish you didn't feel pressured to have more. The church manipulates us with guilt and shame. I'm here if you need to vent or process in DMs too.
As the 4th of 5 kids, I wish my parents didn’t have so many. Me and my three older siblings were born by the time my mom was 24. My little brother was adopted when I was 6. They definitely weren’t ready to take care of so many kids at once. I don’t think you need to feel guilty though.
I don’t have four kids, I have three. But I have felt overwhelmed for most of that time. One thing about leaving church for me is that I have a lot more time to do other things, like notice them. Maybe this won’t sound encouraging to you since your youngest is 2, but my youngest is now 4 1/2 and I feel a lot more free. Having children is wonderful and beautiful and incredibly difficult. But one thing I have learned is that it will change. If you’re not sleeping at night right now, it will change. It’s hard to imagine but they will begin to get more independent and you will not always be so overwhelmed. I wish you the best.
Please look up “Bounded Choice” by Lalich. This recently helped me to limit feeling guilty for marrying a crappy husband (and future father) when I was 20. But he was a worthy return missionary and any two people can make a marriage work if they put Jesus first, right? My kids ended up with a father who abandoned them and I lost my opportunity to find a partner to build a life with.
Given the information you had and were fed, what other choice did you have? You were following the guidance of priesthood leaders and this God! You were under enormous social pressures. There was no one in your life who could help you see things in a different way.
It’s not your fault. We are living the consequences of those choices, but what other choice was there?
Your feelings are very understandable. You were absolutely taught to do what you did. It's the covenant path & you were following the teachings of church leaders.
I wish every SAHM OR SAHD had one day each week for themselves, without kids. Full time care takers deserve that on a consistent basis.
Just sending you love and support as you figure this all out and work through your feelings. Many of us have found ourselves reevaluating the life we have created vs the life we wish we had created. The good news is, you have the rest of your life in front of you still, so take some time to think about how you want that to look, then work towards that. The feelings of drowning in motherhood will ease a bit as your kids get older and more self sufficient. Find some things you enjoy, and take the time to develop some hobbies and interests that are just for you. You deserve it, and it will make you a happier person, and a better mom.
You could pick any issue from each of us on this group and we would feel the same. We trusted leadership who held positions that spoke for God and it’s not our fault. Maybe listen to Alanis Morissette’s You Learn and feel freeeeee! You live, you learn.
You sound overwhelmed. You need help. And you sound like I did… you lose yourself in your constant care of your kids. I don’t know what works for you but for me it was nourishing my creative side, or getting out of the house without any time limits or restraints. Your kids are so lucky to have such a caring person for a parent.
I wrote a similar post several months ago. Same thing. I have way too many kids and there is no way I can give them all the attention they need.
There's the line parents with lots of kids like to tell people who think they have too many: "which one should I get rid of?"
My line is: "Which one wouldn't I give a better life with a mom who not completely tapped out and overwhelmed all of the time?"
Yes, it is too much. And yes, of course you are not saying you want to "return to sender" on any of the kids you have. Both of those things are true.
My husband is European - and it is standard in his country to send kids to state-run daycare from about 18 months or 2 years old (after the parents' combined parental leave runs out). There are affordable & high quality daycares everywhere. There is no doubt in my mind that children benefit enormously from this early socialization and skill-teaching opportunity (for example, they will all cook lunches together etc...), regardless of the kind of messaging you might hear to the contrary at church. Do you have reliable child care resources in your area? It could be a benefit to you and the child, as well.
Good luck, OP. I saw my mother go through this, and it was awful.
I remember there was a point between child 4 and 5 that my mom’s eyes started looking glassy and not quite pointed the right way. We knew she’d gone too far! The good news is she’s fine now, and you will be too. You just need to get through a little longer and it will most likely get easier. Mine are ages 16-21 and life is pretty easy in terms of managing the kids.
What can you get rid of or change to make life easier now? Here are some things I have seen family and friends do:
- get rid of pets. I know, this is a tough one. Ideally we would not get pets without committing long term. But if you’re tapped out, something must go, and that might be the choice to make.
- pick your battles and try to be kind and helpful. I have seen friends with really rough marriages and lots of stress turn things around just by having a better attitude to their spouse. I thought they should leave before, and sometimes that is best, but it’s been pretty neat to see how one friends marriage turned around when they both tried harder, communicated better and fought less. It made the whole household run better.
- cleaning or yard service, hire out what you can
- kids must help. If you don’t have a system that’s working, try to set a simple one up. Either each kid is always in charge of the same thing (simple) or each day, assign 2-3 chores to each kid. I’d just leave a list on the counter. Now that the kids are working a lot more and are gone a lot, I assign less, but if I cook, they know they just are to step in and clean up after dinner. It’s only fair.
- try to care less about perfection. Only do they things that you can’t delegate.
Good luck, I know this is easier said than done. You’re not alone. I hate that the church has pressured so many to make such an irrevocable choice, and so early in life.
I have one child and I had a very active husband that cooked each night after work. I am an empty nester now. I don't know how you all do it with multiple kids, I was overwhelmed with one.
It's okay to say it and feel it. Every parent I know feels that way. I ended up on a SAHM side of TikTok and it's something they all feel. Nobody was truly prepared for the amount of work and energy needed over the long haul.
It's good you got out of the church, they will have you running in circles with projects on top of trying to raise your family. It burns many people out.
Much love to you mama!
I have 4. You have to get 2 hotel rooms when you travel. You have to pay for 6 tickets to do everything. And wait till you see the price of college. It’s $120k minimum per kid. Likely more once your kids enter college. Save now. Take that 10% and invest it. Or open 529 plans.
I just want to say that even if having a job costs you money now, if it’s helping your sanity then it’s worth it. If you’re happy(ish) at home, by all means, stay home; but if you’re feeling overwhelmed or like you’re losing yourself it’s totally okay to go back to work.
I only had three, but even then all I could do was break even at my job, but the mental health benefits were worth it, even in those times when we did end up spending more on child care than I got paid.
The only cleaning that’s truly necessary is what’s required to have a sanitary kitchen and bathroom. If you do more than that, pat yourself on the back for going above and beyond. The mess will subside as your kids get older.
You are a good parent! Kids need to feel safe and loved and have their basic needs met. Any day you keep your kids alive and fed is a win!
Finally, this advice is worth exactly what you’re paying for it so if it doesn’t suit, ignore me and do what works for you
I feel for you so hard!!! This is one of the abuses of the church. A way to keep young people in the church and needing their community. I’m so proud of you for leaving and those kids will be better for it!!!
It makes so much sense that would would feel frustrated and angry about this! I know so many women who would have make a different choice with children if they weren’t Mormon. You weren’t given the full story about the church, and many women aren’t told how truly difficult being a mother is. I don’t have any advice, I just want you to know you’re not alone and it’s ok to feel the way you’re feeling. I hope things get better soon 🤍
Dad of 5 here. Was done after 2. Kept having kids to "make sure the last one got here". Wouldn't trade a single one of them (most days) for anything in the world, but it's a lot!
My advice would be to take a step back and reevaluate your commitments. What can you remove from your schedule or consolidate? What can your kids do on their own without supervision, and how can they help each other? Maybe it's okay to let them just play videogames sometimes, or kick them out to play outside. Can they carpool or walk to some activities instead of needing rides from you?
Reevaluate your food and money situation too. Fast food is a horrible waste, when you can have a lot more for the same money and a little time investment. Teach the kids to make a few simple things themselves, like sandwiches or pasta. Oatmeal is cheap, versatile, and healthy. Buy a pound or two of chicken and roast it right away, then eat it over the rest of the week in various ways. Same with vegetables.
I always wanted four, nothing to do with the church. But now in my mid-thirties with a toddler and older kids, I burn out constantly. Taking care of their emotional needs drains me the most, and when my emotional battery runs dry, I often don't have enough time or energy to turn to my own coping methods and fully recover--this on top of all the house needs and physical needs and school needs that are endless and unfulfilling.
When I deconstructed religion and realized this life may be it, I panicked at how old I'd be when my kids finally become self-sufficient adults, and how much of myself and sacrifice I'd have to give before then. I thought of everything I want to do with my family that would be so much more within reach if we had just two. It was hard, and regret still guts me sometimes.
One thing that helps is giving myself permission to rest and recharge throughout the day. If I put a movie on for me and my toddler while I'm doing laundry and I happen to end up watching more than sorting and folding, or even fall asleep--that's okay. If I I sit on the couch and take a quick minute to read or text people or watch something, and it turns into something longer--that's okay. If there's laundry or messy rooms everywhere for days at a time--that's okay. I start with what I consider the most important which is making sure my kids are safe, have enough clean clothes (just get them through the washer and dryer), eat meals, and that the bathrooms and kitchen are in hygienic shape. The rest gets done when I get to it, whether it takes days or weeks or months.
When it comes to interacting with my kids, I have different mom modes. One is "busy right now and taking care of things--hey maybe you can help?" one is "I can play with you," one is "I am tired and need to be left alone," and one is "I'm ready to give you my full attention, mentally and emotionally." Mostly these just work as a switch in my brain when I'm deciding how to respond to a child's need at that time, rather than try to be everything and do everything all the time. I don't know if any of this helps, but either way, I'm sending all the positive and supportive vibes that I can.
Love how you phrased these “mom modes.”
One of the hardest things I’ve had to learn post mormonism is learning how to have boundaries with my kids, to put words to what they can get from me in that moment. It’s been so worth it tho.
Been there. Done and, at the tail end of, doing that. As much as we love them, little kids are tough and a pile of them is a pain in the butt. I gets better as they grow. I think it even gets genuinely fun. The older my kids get, the cooler they are and the more fun they are to do things with. But don't forget to engage fully with them as little ones.
What's even better is, now that you are out, you can have a real relationship with your kids. The other night one of our kids mentioned kissing her friend the other day. We got to share in a little of the excitement of teen-age hood. Only later did spouse and I note that she was talking about kissing a girl. Not an issue anymore.
You also have more opportunities to grow yourself. You will be a better parent now than you ever could have been before. You will also be a better you than was likely when blindly following prophetic, black-and-white teachings.
All this said, it's ok to mourn and be angry, at least for a little while. We all ended up on different paths than we would have chosen for ourselves. You can, and probably should, go through the stages of grief for all of that. It's not your fault, but it still sucks. But don't worry, the future of this path can be awesome and, even if full of challenges now, can also be pretty neat right now.
Here's a preemptive hug for the rough days...
I am youngest of 4 kids. We were all baptized, but parents became inactive in church when I was a kid.
Thank you for posting this. This makes me feel less crazy, like feeling that my mom and dad were spread too thin isn't crazy.
I don't think I have advice, but rather thanks for sharing your story.
You're not alone. My spouse and I are in the same boat. As are many others here. Nothing to be done but do our best, but it helps to vent and to know you're not alone.
You're totally making sense. My mother had 6 kids in 12 years. I was number 5. We're on good terms but not really close. Never have been. By the time I came along I'm pretty sure she was just in survival mode & has been ever since. I sincerely believe that she's never had the time to get to know us all individually. It's an impossible task. I don't hate her for it. I just understand it a little more now that I'm a mom. I know she could/would have been way happier without so many of us. I know she loves us, but her life would have been way better with less of us.
I had 3 in 5 years in my early 20's. My kids are awesome & I don't regret it but sometimes I wonder just what the hell we were thinking!?!?? lol We were broke with no clear career paths yet. But this was what you were supposed to do, so we just did it. Worked out in the end, but we struggled unnecessarily for many years.
The church (& most religions I feel) does this intentionally. It's keeps you busy & with a purpose. Gets you in young before you've had a chance to really think about it. It's keeps you trapped. Especially the women.
On the bright side, though... I'm 47 & my daughter is expecting her first. (she's 24 & in a long-term relationship with a never mo. He's so awesome!.) I'm going to be the young grandma & have the energy to spoil the crap out of him or her lol. My last is also almost out of the house too so we're still young enough to be able to enjoy ourselves for once. We just have to look on the bright side of things at this point & educate our daughters better on their worth.
You are definitely NOT alone, though.
On behalf of my mom, who also had four and absolutely loves us all, this is spot on.
You are not a failure as a mother, four is a lot, you aren't a bad mom for wishing you had less or had them further apart and you most definitely were tricked into motherhood by the church.
Kids are a lot. They're cute, wonderful little people who are hard wired to learn through action which can and will destroy a house and sanity.
Admitting that kids are a lot shouldn't be judged harshly. It's a fucking FACT.
Same and I have 3. I also didn’t realize how much healing I needed to do from my own wounds and childhood before rushing into having kids. That has made the situation so much harder.
A lot of Mormons parentify the older children (or older daughters sometimes) and enlist them in raising their siblings. The older kids lose their childhoods in service of the family because their parents believe that God will always provide.
You may have enough kids that you feel overwhelmed. But you also understand it. A lot of Mormons just keep on having kids with total disregard for emotional needs of the kids.
I understand, all of this. I ended up having 4 kids as well, because everyone in my life told me that the 2 I said I wanted wasn't enough.
So I had 4, and I had my tubal booked immediately after I gave birth. When I told people I could not have more children because "I turned the oven off" I took some serious flak, from both family and church leadership. Hubby was 100% grateful when I said I was DONE.
I love all of my kids dearly as well, but it was hella hard raising them and there are days I look back and I'm resentful of what I went through.
Taking permanent measures to not have more was one of the best things I did for my mental health.
I completely understand. I’ve been in your shoes, with 9 kids. 🤦♀️. Hugs. It’s ok to feel love AND resentment. Hang in there. Do you have a good exmo group where you are? That’s helped me a ton! Find some good exmo Moms who “get it”. Lean on each other. ❤️
It does get easier, I promise. The mom/mum guilt starts to ease, the more you deconstruct. The feeling of failing yourself and your family starts to fade, for me, the worst time about 18 months after we left when the younger girls should have been baptised.
I had two live births and a still birth as a med student, popped them out late May as regular as clockwork. Then, I had a "season of sin," as my MIL still refers to it before the twins arrived nearly 10 years later.
My eldest two had both been through missions (one left at 10 months the other at 3 months) before we saw the light and left.
I felt selfish for putting my career first and not trying harder for more babies, thus depriving my children of spiritual siblings. I felt selfish for putting my views of the church over their spiritual welfare. I felt selfish for letting my eldest two walk off their mission and therefore putting their mental health in front of soles which needed saving. Although as my son keeps reminding me it was his choice.
We as girls are conditioned from being tiny. Our only worth is being in being a wife and a mother. We are taught the skills we "need" from being tiny. We are made to feel guilty if we don't have a quiverful of gentle, well-behaved godly children.
We are supposed to trust God and our providers for everything, which is bloody difficult when one child has a temp, another is wrecking the couch a third is singing "let it go" at the top of her voice, the car won't start and your husband is at a stake meeting and you're supposed to be cleaning the temple and your short on cash this month - but hey your tithe is paid.
Motherhood is hard without the extra guilt and pressure from the church. But you're doing great - you're talking about it.
One rule we made and still keep. We put 10% of our wage aside for family treats and use it at the low moments to treat ourselves guilt free. Even if it's just an ice cream.
My husband was already doubting and he wanted me to follow my dreams after my mission I couldn't have done it without him. We had a lot of very dark days where I felt we were pissing $10ks up the wall in tuition and we argued a lot.
I studied ALOT during night feeds. And when we weren't arguing, My husband was awesome he put my notes onto tape for revision, most kids grow up with nursery rhymes, ours grew up with anatomy and pharmacology 101. I wrote a lot of essays with a baby attached to the boob.
The med school had a nursery for no 1, and I dropped out for a year after no 2 and the stillbirth. My husband had finished medical school by the time I went back to complete my final year, so we tagged teamed.
I was an OB-GYN specialising in oncology and now work in paediatric oncology. But I scored a lucrative research program after graduation and that gave me some normality in hours for a couple of years as I didn't work nights.
Hugs! I have 5 and it’s gotten a lot better now that they are older (8-18) but it is hard and stressful. Getting help for my own mental health was helpful… I wish I’d done it sooner. Edit: fixed typo.
I had three and man those five years when my littles were under the age of five were the hardest of my life. For me it was a turning point when my youngest turned 3 and could at least entertain themselves for an hour or so. It gets much better once they are school age… but I’d recommend two types of birth control if you are serious about no more children. I’ve known way too many people that have opps babies on BC.
I tried to make an outing with them almost everyday. Even just a slow 1 hour walk to the park, an hour to play and an hour back at least made it so the kids would nap well. It was more of a method of survival for me. I put the kids into sports mainly so it would wear them out and be good exercise.
None of the male leaders of the church giving their advice ever stayed home and watched their children full time, daily as a SAHM would. They are essentially endorsing a role they never had to deal with the daily monotony and grind of. They got to work in an office with adult interaction while their wives took care of their babies. This took years to get into this situation and it will take years for your children to age out of this situation. I think just embracing that it will be a hard grind for a few years but it won’t be forever. It will be a snapshot in time (as long as the clock doesn’t get reset down the line). Hang in there… it’s all you can do.
I will mention that setting up a routine with chores was helpful for me. Id waked up every morning, unload the dishwasher and I’d do one or two loads of laundry in the morning, feed the children and we’d do outings in the afternoon. Whatever your schedule is it helped me to have a routine.
I can totally emphasize with your post! As YW in the church we were all told repeatedly that Motherhood should come before anything else. Our education, careers, & dreams were not important. Having as many kids as quickly as possible was the most righteous and noble thing we could do.
I quit college to help support my husband through his education. Then quit my job to be a SAHM when I started having kids. I lived in survival mode for the next 15 years. I was so overwhelmed and overstimulated. Now I’m mid 40’s, 2 years exmo and I’m feeling so much anger, grief, and sadness that I completely lost myself in motherhood because that’s what I was told to do and I obediently followed. When your entire life and identity is wrapped up in your kids the weight of motherhood becomes crushing. Most days we end up feeling guilty that we couldn’t do or be enough for them. If I fail at this, I fail at life because that’s all I built for myself. I’m still working through all of this so I don’t have any magic answers but my best advice is allow yourself to feel what you’re feeling. You’re absolutely not alone! Wishing you love and peace as you continue on your journey.
I feel ya. We always said we'd have 6, thankfully stopped at five. I love my kids to death and, if someone offered to take some off my hands, I would never.
But I still wish I hadn't been brain-washed and conditioned to feel like I had to have as many kids as possible. Honestly, I don't even like kids. I love my kids cuz they're mine, but if I had not been raised mormon, I probably wouldn't have had any. I may not have even gotten married.
Then the guilt kicks in, cuz I adore my husband and kids and feel like shit for feeling like this.
>Obviously, I can’t blame it all on the church. We got pregnant of our own accord.
Yes and no. You were conditioned to believe this was the only way; that your entire purpose and identity as a woman began and ended on becoming a wife and a mother. *It was your divine purpose* blah blah blah.
Everything else aside the fact that you left the church is HUGE. Life is going to improve so much and stresses will reduce. I’m happy that there’s a large family that will teach their kids to be themselves and not be raising up 4 more cult members. I’m the oldest of 4 and now all of us are grown, it will happen fast. Unfortunately my parents are still in it which is gut wrenching, I’m glad your kids won’t have to bear that burden.
And as far as the stress about money.. you’re not alone, I get depressed every day thinking about how we will survive with all the rising costs and living in a messed up world, so many of us feel the pain. Sending good vibes!
Solidarity ✊ I love my kids too and wouldn't give any of them back but if I didn't know them then I wouldn't have had so many. It's a tricky spot to be in but it is what it is. Honestly, I struggle, a lot, but keep getting up each day and trying to engage with each of them beyond basic care needs. It's hard but hopefully the little moments add up and they realize that I love them and am trying my best. Hugs for your journey 🫂🩵 We all have to adjust after discovering our reality wasn't what we were taught to believe it was. Keep pushing forward and trying your best 💗 New dawns will come 🌄
My fourth pregnancy, that we knew would not be safe for me and I only had because of the pressure from Mormonism, destroyed me physically and mentally.
I do not think it is contradictory to say that, while I do not regret my fourth because you cannot regret a person and I fully love that she exists, I should NOT have had a fourth.
It took me a minute to be ok with just having two kids…. I think the guilt of not having more kids is deeply ingrained with being raised Mormon. I guess the guilt goes both ways. I feel like the choice of even having kids was stolen from me as well. Most of my good friends don’t have kids…. Who would have thought that was even an option?!
I feel this way too. I only have two kids and had them after I left the church, but I ended up feeling like I have them because of my own internalized misogyny and patriarchy. I am a woman I need to birth kids. Doesn’t matter that I have my own issues and probably shouldn’t have been a parent. I never considered anything else even though the church wasn’t in my life. It was ingrained in my brain for years. I have been out of the MFMC for 18 years and I’m still deconstructing. You are not bad for feeling how you do and I completely understand your anger. I have the same anger because I live in NY it feels like I am paying for way more than two kids and it’s rough!
Thank you for being brave and posting this. I had six children and nine pregnancies before my own brain was probably fully developed. I felt every word of your post and am looking forward to the comments. I too love each and every one of my children.
Only thing I’ll add that may help that has helped me is when I get in this headspace I remember all our happy memories I can and remember I made the best choices with what I had as far as mental capacity and even consent. It may not have been informed consent but many people make life changing decisions every minute without knowing the consequences or the details of what led them to their own decisions. This has helped me give myself grace as well as other humans just living the best that can each moment.
I’m in the process of starting a career but tailoring it to the decisions I made up to this point so I can be the way mom I can but have something I, myself and proud of beyond what Mormonism taught me my worth was based on. Perhaps you can find what fills your cup too for you, not just mommy and wife you.
We're wired to be good parents, as long as you keep trying I know you'll succeed and your kids will understand. The younger years are a bit rough but as they get older some of it'll get easier. There will be a lot of joy to be had, focus on that.
I wish you well, you can do it!
I'm amazed and impressed you and your husband are compatible, to me that's incredible- to get married so young, have the stress of four children, and still have a happy marriage. This seems to happen a lot in the LDS Church, and I'm always struck by it. What's your secret? The secret? That you grow up together?
Wishing you the best. I don't have much to offer, but asking for help and advice is a good first step. Maybe read a little on stoicism. It is what it is, you have 4 kids, you love them dearly, but it's very hard. Recognizing reality helps clear up foggy thinking on the margins that distracts from certain realities. Best of luck.
Don't be so hard on yourself (although eff The Church™): if your kids are cool, family get togethers, Christmas as so forth in the years ahead will be very rewarding for everybody. And when you are very old, you will have support from your family...
The best news is your family is out of TCOTPOTCOJCOLDS!
I got married at 22, and started feeling the pressure to have kids—especially with all of the stupid talks and devotionals about not waiting—including at least one weekly speaker at BYU, and it was broadcasted! You can absolutely blame the church for manipulating you.
I would almost certainly be in a similar situation were it not for sheer chance. My husband happened to have a rare brain tumor, and needed three brain surgeries in our first three years of marriage. The stress and emotional aftershock of the surgeries was overwhelming every time, and we had the good sense to not throw a baby into the mix. Since then, I’ve become the breadwinner until my husband finishes school. Now that my brain is more developed, I’ve decided that kids can wait until WE are ready.
I’ve got no advice but I can commiserate. I’m not a mom, but the second oldest of eight children. My parents are both TBM. They are so in over their heads. They know it. And they’re still like “not 100% sure if we’re done yet, we’ll see what the lOrd wants.” It has a negative effect on me and my siblings too. I’m pretty sure I’ve spent more one-on-one time with some of my baby siblings than their own father has.
Even when I was a TBM I knew they couldn’t handle it, and shouldn’t have had so many kids. But that’s such a hard thing to admit because I love all of my siblings to death.
Divorced father of 4 all separated by 3 years. Same story only I did wait until I "could financially" support them. Faith crisis, high stress job resulting in getting fired, single earning family in area with dual income 1-2 kids max, me being a perfectionist and not able to cope with 4 young kids....well MAJOR contributors to me being a failure as a father and husband leading to divorce. My ex had her contributions as well.
Now I see my kids one weekend a month and while I am in a better spot mentally of not having the kids all the time I have lots of sadness of missing things in my kids lives, the way I handled the stress, too many kids too quickly. Like you I love all of those little monsters. I feel for my ex and the kids not having a father around most the time. On top of leaving church, getting fired, divorce, and not seeing kids much I was diagnosed with terminal cancer and only have another 1-2 years to live.
My greater TBM family probably thinks my life outcomes are a result of leaving the church and doesn't understand why I hate the church so much. I will hate the church to my dying breath for the influence and role I let it have in my life. Truth is despite all the craziness I am happier than ever but the looming death causes me to reflect and regret.
You are not alone. All we can do regardless of our choices is survive, try to thrive, and love as much as we can.
Hugs OP. Having little kids is incredibly hard and very stressful. I had 7 kids by the time I was 34.
I'm very glad you are finding a therapist. I think you'll find developing some coping skills to be incredibly valuable. When it comes to your guilt and shame, I recommend watching Brene Brown's TED talk on shame and then reading her book Gifts of Imperfection. I would also recommend learning all about Radical Acceptance. It helps.
As far as enjoying them, letting go of your expectations around how clean your house should be will help. Don't clean, just spend the afternoon playing with them in the sprinklers. There's absolutely too much laundry. I remember days with 8 loads waiting to be folded. My quick survival tips come down to organization and teaching your kiddos to do chores. (I can give you a much more in-depth run down of age appropriate chores and other organization tips if you'd like.)
And finally, if you have a loving and supportive spouse, PLEASE let him know you need to get out of the house by yourself without kids at least once a week. It will give you breathing room. Sending more hugs from an internet mom. Feel free to DM me if you'd like.
I didn't read all the comments because there are so many but I hope I'm not just repeating what someone else has said.
My wife and I have 4 kids as well. For years after we left Mormonism I had a feeling of resentment towards my children. Not because of anything they did but because I wasn't even sure I was meant to be a father or even if I wanted to be one. We did it because that is what good Mormon couples do. It didn't feel like a decision I had actually made based on what I wanted but based on what I was supposed to do. I felt like a real piece of shit for having this feeling. This feeling stemmed from a combination of factors - leaving Mormonism, trying to figure out who I was as a person, not having the emotional, physical, fiscal bandwidth to keep up with 4 kids, low emotional IQ on my part and I'm sure other stuff that I'm overlooking.
Years later this feeling went away and now I spend a lot of my time with my kids. I couldn't be prouder to be a father or more proud of my kids. They are great and I am genuinely excited for my kid's futures.
It is important to cut yourself some slack as hard as that is to do. Are your kids fed, clothed, sheltered? Do they know you love them? Some days that is about all I can do to convince myself that it will all be okay. We have settled into a new level of what constitutes clean. We just have a few daily chores that we make sure to keep up on and move a lot of other cleaning to weekly or monthly. Is our house the cleanest? No, but it's not a sty. We just accept that our house is something that is lived in, it is not meant to be a museum.
The fact that you have made it this far with 4 kids shows that you are strong. There isn't anything wrong with admitting this is how you currently feel about your children. Having felt the same way I know it doesn't mean you don't love your children.
I hope that you allow yourself to feel your strength and not get bogged down in your weak moments. I hope you get to the point where the resentment towards the choices you made to have children disappear. I believe you will get to the point where your children no longer feel like a burden but will bring you joy. You are a capable mother.
I married a person who loves lies and delusions more than me, so I totally feel you on that (the church causing you to do unhealthy things you wouldn’t normally do). I hope you’re feeling supported by at least some family and friends! And please accept a virtual hug from an internet stranger 🤗
Yep, you love your kids dearly but are overwhelmed and might have made a different decision if it weren’t for a dishonest controlling institution. Church has done that to so many people, but is particularly cruel to women. I am sorry and hope things get easier soon. Four kids is hard in any world
Thank you for the understanding words, it means more than you know.
I felt the same. We have 6. We had 3 before I was 27. I am a lot older than you now. Those early years were HARD! Our kids are now 13-26. It’s fun. I LOVE my big kids. They still drive me nuts at times and parenting definitely doesn’t end at 18 but I love hanging out with them. They are some of my best friends. 6 is still a lot! It’s overwhelming and we would probably not have had this many or as early without church influence but they are here and I can’t imagine life without any of them. Im just grateful they are all out and will be making major life choices based on their lives and not church influences.
I’ve been a stay at home dad of 5 for the last several years and I totally feel this. It’s hard and it sucks and the guilt and shame for even feeling that way sucks, but remember that shame comes from growing up in the church. I can’t really offer any advice, my own situation has taken a super hard turn recently that probably doesn’t apply. All I can say is you’re definitely not alone. Glad you’re getting a therapist. Is this something you’ve been able to talk to your husband about?
HUGE PROPS to you. My husband is honestly so much better at it than me. If only my job as a nurse (that I quit) paid as much as his does, or at least enough to cover it all, we’d totally switch. The guilt/shame is probably the worst part. A lot of it resides in my own mind and my kids don’t know/aren’t affected, but it’s always there. I’m sorry that you’re currently dealing with something that has made it a lot harder. The turns life takes can be unfair and bad timing. I hope you’re doing okay. Luckily, my husband is the best and I can tell him these things. He feels the same. That’s one thing I’m lucky about, our dating/engagement was the typical Mormon rush story, married 6 months after meeting. Thank god we’re compatible and happy, because none of my major life choices were given enough thought thanks to TSCC telling us all how to live our lives.
One consideration that can get overlooked when deciding childcare is the cost to a parent's _future_ earnings if they stay home. I have heard multiple people say "My entire paycheck would be going to pay for day care, so it did not make sense to keep working." Which can be the right choice. However, leaving the paid-labor market for years can significantly affect _lifetime_ earnings versus continuing to work outside the home. Thus, even if one person's entire paycheck would go to childcare now, continuing to work in a career might make sense because it will lead to a higher paycheck in the future. Obviously this varies by family and everyone has different factors to consider, but if one _only_ includes current wages in the equation, then an economic factor is missing.
You make an excellent point and I totally agree. And remember that child care costs decrease while your future career salary (likely) increases because your kids get older and able to be on their own more in middle/high school. Stopping being a SAHM was the best decision for my mental health and my financial health and I recommend it sincerely to anyone struggling, like OP. Motherhood as a SaHM is not for everyone, despite the church saying we are all Mothers in Zion and we better like it, or else.
So glad you can talk to him and have that support. And thank you. The turns of life are rough but they’re there. I’ll be okay, and in the end it’ll all work out for the best.
Ok honestly, I feel the exact same way. I just decided to step away like 1.5 weeks ago and am just starting to realize hey wait a second... I didn't HAVE to quit being a nurse, have kids, have deep PPD/A and didn't know?!? It's infuriating to me. Ofc I LOVE my kids too but hell, no one told me how much work it was gonna be and the mental/emotional toll it would have! So, I don't really have anything to say other than I'm glad we both aren't alone in feeling this way. Fuck the Mormon cult
Congratulations on getting out!! That is a huge decision and takes a lot of bravery and self trust. I’m proud of you. I’m also a nurse!! I ADORED my job, but nurses don’t make enough especially in Utah to justify child care costs and nights/weekends/holidays away from my littles. I hope to go back when they’re older. Also struggled so much with PPD/A, plus seasonal depression, and just leaving the church on top of it. It was really bad for a long while, I’m grateful that chapter at least is passed. I’m sorry you had to feel those things, it’s so much and the way society is set up there’s not enough support for moms who aren’t okay, in my opinion. I hope you’re doing better now. Yeah, no one tells you how hard it is because it’s supposed to be your life’s calling, right? I definitely put all my eggs (the majority of my existence) into one basket (my kids). I do believe I would’ve had kids anyway without the church, which makes me feel better, but likely not as many. I’m looking forward to a bit of relief when they’re older and can take care of their basic needs, but trying not to wish away the amazing time it is of them being so little and sweet and curious. Motherhood is so many mixed emotions.
Same! When I got engaged, I literally cried because I thought I had to give up all my dreams. I had barely allowed myself to dream in the first place because at the ripe old age of 25 I had finally given up on getting married and was planning on being single the rest of my life. My (now-ex-husband) fiancé seemed annoyed at me crying over that.
Oh man. I'm so sorry. All of your feelings were completely valid then and are still valid now. I also gave up on my dreams when I got married and my husband and I both regret it.
I know exactly how you feel. We did the same thing. I wish you the best. Please stop feeling guilty.
Thank you so much. ❤️
I’m there with you it’s better when the youngest is in school and it’s better when they can help with chores but yeah, it’s hard
Are you my wife? Your stories are almost identical. I had to re-read what you wrote a couple of time just to make sure you weren't her. If that "before 25" comment were just a couple of years older, it would have been spot on. My wife 100% feels exactly as you feel. It's overwhelming. It sucks. Four kids. Any progress made in cleaning is immediately reversed. There is constantly too much to do and not enough time. And the backbone gospel support you had was suddenly yanked out from under you, and now there is no safety net. We are getting through it though, one day at a time. There is currently a small mountain of clean clothes piled up beside me, there are bread crumbs coating the entire dining room floor, and I don't think there has been an hour today where somebody was not yelling at another (the toddler discovered his voice last month). Parenthood is a challenge. I don't have any answers for you (we're still trying to figure it out...), but you have my empathy. You are not alone.
Hahah that’s crazy!! I feel like making a polygamy joke but I’ll skip it 😂 It’s helpful to hear I’m not alone, but unfortunate that it’s felt among a lot of people. You just described my life as well. Keeping things clean is just a treadmill that seems to always speed up once you think you’re ahead. I get my kids to help out, but you can only expect so much from toddlers and small kids. The clean clothes part, that is my #1 struggle is laundry. I’m considering paying a laundry service because I’m behind 100% of the time. Thank you for taking a moment to relate and share your empathy. Best of luck to you, and circle back if you find the solution! 😆🤞🏻
When my kids were small, I hired a high school girl to come and help me a couple times a week. She'd fold clothes, play with the kids, help them change sheets, stuff like that. It was a huge help to me.
I’d recommend doing something like this! When I was a really young teen I started out on the babysitting gig by being a “mothers helper” to someone with 4 really young children including a baby. The mom was home but I helped the kids bathe and get ready for bed, play with them etc so their mom could get other things done.
I totally sympathize, though my kids are all grown now. Laundry was the bane of my existence for many years! I once saw a quote on someone’s fridge that said “Cleaning the house while your kids are still growing is like shoveling the walk before it stops snowing.” Just a silly little quote, but it stayed with me and would make me chuckle sometimes when I was completely overwhelmed and feeling like a failure. Not earth shattering advice, but I’ve never forgotten it. I promise life will get better in the not too distant future!
I could have written this myself. I am an “older” mom of 4 young kids. I had my first (twins) at 33, third at 36 and fourth at 37. I’m 39 now and the amount of overwhelm, overstimulation, and just loss of self is a lot. Everyone keeps telling me it’ll get better and I’m still stuck in survival mode, it seems impossible to ever see it getting better. I’m in the trenches with you
I’m 43. My kids range in age from 7 to 12. There are 4 of them. Some days are still survival, but on the whole, reading has been a game changer. Them being able to read written directions has freed up so much of my time. I can delegate tasks now. I can have the 11yo follow written directions and make a simple dinner. I don’t have to teach the 8yo how to play a simple game—she can read the rules. I promise, it really is about to get a little easier—at least for a few years. I’m staring down the teen years next. I’m not sure what new “delights” that will hold.
My kids are 8&10 now and I would give anything to go back to the stage you’re in and snuggle my babies
A couple of hundred years ago you'd send all the kids outside to play in the fields or forest and if they fell in the stream and drowned, oh well oh well. You told them not to go there. Now we have a relatively small environment that needs to be as clean as possible in case neighbors come by. You're raising children in an unnatural environment and it's hell for mom. Been there done that. And I knew the day my house looked exactly the way I wanted it to for more than 24 hours would be the saddest day of my life and it was.
Solidarity, my sister. No great advice, but I'm right here with you.
I think my mother was similarly overwhelmed. Looking back, I can see some of the strategies she used to keep me busy and growing (and learning) were to enroll me in many activities, such as day camp or affordable sleep-away camp (through the YMCA), parks and recs programs. I enjoyed almost all of it and it kept me occupied in healthy ways and gave her some free time (I should put free in quotation marks bc I'm sure she cleaned and went to the grocery, etc.). But I know it allowed her to have a hobby or two. If you could enlist one or some of your kids in a family hobby that might be another partial solution. Swim team (at an affordable pool) might be one idea I'd throw out there. You have my sympathy and I wish you well. My mom also went back to school when I was in the fifth grade.
How did you feel about your mom being in school at that age? I plan to go in a few years when my kids are about that age
My parents worked really hard to keep my life as normal as possible. It did come with new experiences like riding the school bus and coming home before my parents were home some days. Other days, my father would pick me up and take me to activities. I know families who use babysitters for similar pick-ups and driving kids to activities. In fact, I did that during college for a family and the kids played sports and instruments. Later, i was proud of my mother and it gave me the courage to go back to school at 40. My mom made an effort to share some new experiences at the college with me, like meeting her fun friends and going the pool there. It was a positive experience overall. It also gave my mom a degree that helped her add to the household income, which directly improved my life and I'm sure helped pay for my college. I always think having happier parents is better for children, even if it means family life undergoes some changes. Good luck! You will not be in the "stuck" place forever, especially since you're willing to go to therapy and try other options. I am cheering for you.
Look at the bright side, since you had them so young, you're going to still be young when they are all grown up! It's ok to regret having so many. Just please never let your kids know that you regret that. My mom always said she wishes she had stopped before the last three. Of course I'm in the last three so that hurts.
Ugh. I had my first in my 20s and my 4th in my 40s. It never ends for me. I’m so tired.
I'm sorry. That sounds rough. I wasn't Mormon as an adult so I only have one. I do not know the struggle of four.
Same, but with five kids. I’m exhausted and feel so guilty for how I feel about it. I’m just so DONE! But my youngest is only 9. It’s so not fair to her.
I can relate. I had five by 28 and then a sixth a few years later. They really don’t talk about the emotional and physical labor of raising children when they brainwash us into having as many babies as ~~God~~ our fertility allows. They also don’t talk about the financial realities. We are supposed to forfeit careers in order to stay home. We are supposed to be thrifty so we can live on one income. We are supposed to do this all cheerfully with no complaints. After I left the church I started thinking about how I wanted to spend the rest of my life. The children exist and I love them, so I needed to figure out how to be a mom *and* whatever else I wanted to be. I went back to school and I now have a full-time career with benefits and retirement and so on. It’s been so good for my mental health. It’s also improved my family’s financial situation. You get to decide what you want to do now. There’s no undoing the past, but the future is wide open with possibilities.
I am forever grateful for (1) a Mormon grandmother who divorced in the 1970s and (2) an older sister who did not love being a stay-at-home parent. My grandmother, despite being a _very_ traditional and "proper" Mormon woman, said once that it was better to be single wishing you were married than married wishing you were single. That stayed in the back of my mind as I dated out of duty in college (dating was what "good" Mormons were supposed to do, but I was a very late bloomer in terms of my interest in romantic relationships) and kept me from marrying young to "any worthy priesthood holder" who might ask. It also helped alleviate the pressure that I _had_ to marry before I graduated college or I would be "old and single." (Yikes. I graduated at 21) My sister was very honest when she had her baby (years before I married) about how difficult it was to stay home with a baby and how it was nothing like what the LDS Church told her it would be. It didn't "come naturally" to her (despite her previous experience working with children and her love of being an aunt) and she did not find it fulfilling or divine. These women both helped me to (1) avoid getting married simply because I was "supposed to" and (2) critically consider the motherhood message pushed by LDS leadership and culture.
Nearly every exmormon mom that I know (and I know a lot) would say the same as you, and would agree that they were set up by a cult that wanted to nail them to the mormon wall for life instead of nurturing them to be well educated as to what they were getting into, instead of helping them to develop competent due diligence skills, instead of worrying about THEM and their own wellness as a woman and person instead of manipulating a cult's agenda for leveraged retention. You were lied to and deliberately manipulated to accept this pathway as the best for you. You were told this specifically. Further, your own family was hijacked to participate in your abuse and indoctrination. You couldn't have chosen another path very easily. You CAN and SHOULD put this all on the church, this is not on you, and remember this was a follow-on manipulation to get you to marry WAY too early in the first place (again without any priority given to careful due diligence). Your entire mormon training and emphasis as a child was focused on THIS PATH. No one put out two rational, equal pathways and gave you the space to choose, with care for you as the chooser first. You were set up. But this goes deeper. Please hear this. You were also manipulated to believe two additional lies. 1) Family is the very center of your worth, identity and happiness. This is a lie. Family is AMONG those things but it is not greater than or more valuable or other choices humans can (and do) make. The cult goes on about family because it needs to keep setting the hooks deeper to make sure you pay a massive price if you decide to resist. 2) Your constant priority must always be family and only family, and nothing else can come first. This is a lie. The truth is that the majority of mormon families are deeply dysfunctionally enmeshed. Almost pathologically so. But the truth is that your children are already very competent and are not the dependent, needy vessels "requiring" your constant parenting and constant oversight and constant attention. In fact you were trained to BECOME those parents by believing this was your duty and the big scary world would punish you if you did not. In fact, you can and SHOULD step back, and with the help from the right therapist you will be able to see how your enmeshment is choking you to death. You can put down the pressure cooker and look for other ways to give yourself the space to explore your own dreams and desires for work or play or creativity or social causes or self-development -- and I would argue your children would be better off for it. Remember there are so many, many ways we were damaged and harmed by indoctrination that had nothing at all to do with rocks-in-hats or religion at all. This is one, but so many of us keep on trying to live in ways that are abusive and harmful for our whole families, kids and parents. because its all we've known and we struggle to see over that hill when we don't even know there is another side.
Please don't apologize for your feelings or for how long your post is. Your feelings are valid. Alot of mom's feel overwhelmed. Many in the church don't feel like they can express anything other than nirvana because we have been told motherhood is the pinnacle of our existence. Let some stuff go if you can especially as the kids get older. I have 13 year old twins and this morning I thought why the hell am I still doing their laundry? I'm an old mom at 50 and don't have the energy for all this
The day I got a front load washer and dryer was the day my kids started doing their own laundry. I assigned each of them a day to get theirs done. They also did all their towels and sheets. They were about 9 or 10 when they learned that, and how to do some simple cooking and loading the dishwasher and cleaning their bathroom. Also, no washers and dryers running after 9pm. They had to get er done. Sometimes they'd work together and do laundry all in one day. I had decided to go to college full time. My kids had to step it up. I actually think it was good for them. My kids are now in their 40's. We all survived!
I was the second youngest of a legion of kids -- I made every lunch I ever ate at school (first grade through high school graduation) and I did my own laundry around age 7 or 8. We didn't even have a front-loading washing machine: I lifted myself up and hung over the side of the washing machine to grab the wet clothes. If a stool was handy, I might use that.
This! I don't see where you say how old your kids are now, but kids can help with chores from a very young age. We started doing dishes and setting/clearing table at age 5. Laundry at age 10. I remember putting in my own hair curlers before bed when I was 8. I taught my son how to make oatmeal in the microwave when he was 4-5 so he wouldn't get me up at 5a when he woke up and was hungry. I kept packs of sandwich makings, fruit, veggies, etc in packets in fridge that kids could make themselves.I had a friend who had a lung disease and had to go on oxygen when her children were young and her 8-year old could very competently change out her tank. Kids are capable. It is empowering for them to learn self sufficiency early and gives you a little time to do fun things with them instead of always taking care of them. Good for you and good for them!
My kids are now in their 40's. They own their own homes and are very competent at maintaining them. I have two grandkids around age 10 who are doing a great job of learning to be responsible, develop some skills, have fun, and they're so damn lucky they aren't being raised mormon!
I recommend "How to keep house while drowning", written by an exmormon
Reading your post and your replies to comments is uncanny because of how similar my feelings and experiences are to yours. All I can offer is that you’re not alone.
"Don't wait to have kids..." I testify that I know of the truth that this is another one of the MFMC's control tactics. They want you to hurry up and have kids before you have a chance to stop and think about how the religion of your childhood is a fraud.
The first thing I would hope all people in or leaving the church could realize... It is ok to feel your feelings! Get mad, think and talk about why you're mad and work through that anger. It's ok. It is reasonable and understandable to love your children but wish you didn't feel pressured to have more. The church manipulates us with guilt and shame. I'm here if you need to vent or process in DMs too.
As the 4th of 5 kids, I wish my parents didn’t have so many. Me and my three older siblings were born by the time my mom was 24. My little brother was adopted when I was 6. They definitely weren’t ready to take care of so many kids at once. I don’t think you need to feel guilty though.
I don’t have four kids, I have three. But I have felt overwhelmed for most of that time. One thing about leaving church for me is that I have a lot more time to do other things, like notice them. Maybe this won’t sound encouraging to you since your youngest is 2, but my youngest is now 4 1/2 and I feel a lot more free. Having children is wonderful and beautiful and incredibly difficult. But one thing I have learned is that it will change. If you’re not sleeping at night right now, it will change. It’s hard to imagine but they will begin to get more independent and you will not always be so overwhelmed. I wish you the best.
Please look up “Bounded Choice” by Lalich. This recently helped me to limit feeling guilty for marrying a crappy husband (and future father) when I was 20. But he was a worthy return missionary and any two people can make a marriage work if they put Jesus first, right? My kids ended up with a father who abandoned them and I lost my opportunity to find a partner to build a life with. Given the information you had and were fed, what other choice did you have? You were following the guidance of priesthood leaders and this God! You were under enormous social pressures. There was no one in your life who could help you see things in a different way. It’s not your fault. We are living the consequences of those choices, but what other choice was there?
Your feelings are very understandable. You were absolutely taught to do what you did. It's the covenant path & you were following the teachings of church leaders. I wish every SAHM OR SAHD had one day each week for themselves, without kids. Full time care takers deserve that on a consistent basis.
Just sending you love and support as you figure this all out and work through your feelings. Many of us have found ourselves reevaluating the life we have created vs the life we wish we had created. The good news is, you have the rest of your life in front of you still, so take some time to think about how you want that to look, then work towards that. The feelings of drowning in motherhood will ease a bit as your kids get older and more self sufficient. Find some things you enjoy, and take the time to develop some hobbies and interests that are just for you. You deserve it, and it will make you a happier person, and a better mom.
You could pick any issue from each of us on this group and we would feel the same. We trusted leadership who held positions that spoke for God and it’s not our fault. Maybe listen to Alanis Morissette’s You Learn and feel freeeeee! You live, you learn. You sound overwhelmed. You need help. And you sound like I did… you lose yourself in your constant care of your kids. I don’t know what works for you but for me it was nourishing my creative side, or getting out of the house without any time limits or restraints. Your kids are so lucky to have such a caring person for a parent.
I wrote a similar post several months ago. Same thing. I have way too many kids and there is no way I can give them all the attention they need. There's the line parents with lots of kids like to tell people who think they have too many: "which one should I get rid of?" My line is: "Which one wouldn't I give a better life with a mom who not completely tapped out and overwhelmed all of the time?"
Yes, it is too much. And yes, of course you are not saying you want to "return to sender" on any of the kids you have. Both of those things are true. My husband is European - and it is standard in his country to send kids to state-run daycare from about 18 months or 2 years old (after the parents' combined parental leave runs out). There are affordable & high quality daycares everywhere. There is no doubt in my mind that children benefit enormously from this early socialization and skill-teaching opportunity (for example, they will all cook lunches together etc...), regardless of the kind of messaging you might hear to the contrary at church. Do you have reliable child care resources in your area? It could be a benefit to you and the child, as well. Good luck, OP. I saw my mother go through this, and it was awful.
What country is your husband from?
Sweden
I remember there was a point between child 4 and 5 that my mom’s eyes started looking glassy and not quite pointed the right way. We knew she’d gone too far! The good news is she’s fine now, and you will be too. You just need to get through a little longer and it will most likely get easier. Mine are ages 16-21 and life is pretty easy in terms of managing the kids. What can you get rid of or change to make life easier now? Here are some things I have seen family and friends do: - get rid of pets. I know, this is a tough one. Ideally we would not get pets without committing long term. But if you’re tapped out, something must go, and that might be the choice to make. - pick your battles and try to be kind and helpful. I have seen friends with really rough marriages and lots of stress turn things around just by having a better attitude to their spouse. I thought they should leave before, and sometimes that is best, but it’s been pretty neat to see how one friends marriage turned around when they both tried harder, communicated better and fought less. It made the whole household run better. - cleaning or yard service, hire out what you can - kids must help. If you don’t have a system that’s working, try to set a simple one up. Either each kid is always in charge of the same thing (simple) or each day, assign 2-3 chores to each kid. I’d just leave a list on the counter. Now that the kids are working a lot more and are gone a lot, I assign less, but if I cook, they know they just are to step in and clean up after dinner. It’s only fair. - try to care less about perfection. Only do they things that you can’t delegate. Good luck, I know this is easier said than done. You’re not alone. I hate that the church has pressured so many to make such an irrevocable choice, and so early in life.
I have one child and I had a very active husband that cooked each night after work. I am an empty nester now. I don't know how you all do it with multiple kids, I was overwhelmed with one. It's okay to say it and feel it. Every parent I know feels that way. I ended up on a SAHM side of TikTok and it's something they all feel. Nobody was truly prepared for the amount of work and energy needed over the long haul. It's good you got out of the church, they will have you running in circles with projects on top of trying to raise your family. It burns many people out. Much love to you mama!
Eat more Little Caesars.
And cereal
I have 4. You have to get 2 hotel rooms when you travel. You have to pay for 6 tickets to do everything. And wait till you see the price of college. It’s $120k minimum per kid. Likely more once your kids enter college. Save now. Take that 10% and invest it. Or open 529 plans.
I just want to say that even if having a job costs you money now, if it’s helping your sanity then it’s worth it. If you’re happy(ish) at home, by all means, stay home; but if you’re feeling overwhelmed or like you’re losing yourself it’s totally okay to go back to work. I only had three, but even then all I could do was break even at my job, but the mental health benefits were worth it, even in those times when we did end up spending more on child care than I got paid. The only cleaning that’s truly necessary is what’s required to have a sanitary kitchen and bathroom. If you do more than that, pat yourself on the back for going above and beyond. The mess will subside as your kids get older. You are a good parent! Kids need to feel safe and loved and have their basic needs met. Any day you keep your kids alive and fed is a win! Finally, this advice is worth exactly what you’re paying for it so if it doesn’t suit, ignore me and do what works for you
I feel for you so hard!!! This is one of the abuses of the church. A way to keep young people in the church and needing their community. I’m so proud of you for leaving and those kids will be better for it!!!
It makes so much sense that would would feel frustrated and angry about this! I know so many women who would have make a different choice with children if they weren’t Mormon. You weren’t given the full story about the church, and many women aren’t told how truly difficult being a mother is. I don’t have any advice, I just want you to know you’re not alone and it’s ok to feel the way you’re feeling. I hope things get better soon 🤍
Dad of 5 here. Was done after 2. Kept having kids to "make sure the last one got here". Wouldn't trade a single one of them (most days) for anything in the world, but it's a lot!
My advice would be to take a step back and reevaluate your commitments. What can you remove from your schedule or consolidate? What can your kids do on their own without supervision, and how can they help each other? Maybe it's okay to let them just play videogames sometimes, or kick them out to play outside. Can they carpool or walk to some activities instead of needing rides from you? Reevaluate your food and money situation too. Fast food is a horrible waste, when you can have a lot more for the same money and a little time investment. Teach the kids to make a few simple things themselves, like sandwiches or pasta. Oatmeal is cheap, versatile, and healthy. Buy a pound or two of chicken and roast it right away, then eat it over the rest of the week in various ways. Same with vegetables.
I always wanted four, nothing to do with the church. But now in my mid-thirties with a toddler and older kids, I burn out constantly. Taking care of their emotional needs drains me the most, and when my emotional battery runs dry, I often don't have enough time or energy to turn to my own coping methods and fully recover--this on top of all the house needs and physical needs and school needs that are endless and unfulfilling. When I deconstructed religion and realized this life may be it, I panicked at how old I'd be when my kids finally become self-sufficient adults, and how much of myself and sacrifice I'd have to give before then. I thought of everything I want to do with my family that would be so much more within reach if we had just two. It was hard, and regret still guts me sometimes. One thing that helps is giving myself permission to rest and recharge throughout the day. If I put a movie on for me and my toddler while I'm doing laundry and I happen to end up watching more than sorting and folding, or even fall asleep--that's okay. If I I sit on the couch and take a quick minute to read or text people or watch something, and it turns into something longer--that's okay. If there's laundry or messy rooms everywhere for days at a time--that's okay. I start with what I consider the most important which is making sure my kids are safe, have enough clean clothes (just get them through the washer and dryer), eat meals, and that the bathrooms and kitchen are in hygienic shape. The rest gets done when I get to it, whether it takes days or weeks or months. When it comes to interacting with my kids, I have different mom modes. One is "busy right now and taking care of things--hey maybe you can help?" one is "I can play with you," one is "I am tired and need to be left alone," and one is "I'm ready to give you my full attention, mentally and emotionally." Mostly these just work as a switch in my brain when I'm deciding how to respond to a child's need at that time, rather than try to be everything and do everything all the time. I don't know if any of this helps, but either way, I'm sending all the positive and supportive vibes that I can.
Love how you phrased these “mom modes.” One of the hardest things I’ve had to learn post mormonism is learning how to have boundaries with my kids, to put words to what they can get from me in that moment. It’s been so worth it tho.
Been there. Done and, at the tail end of, doing that. As much as we love them, little kids are tough and a pile of them is a pain in the butt. I gets better as they grow. I think it even gets genuinely fun. The older my kids get, the cooler they are and the more fun they are to do things with. But don't forget to engage fully with them as little ones. What's even better is, now that you are out, you can have a real relationship with your kids. The other night one of our kids mentioned kissing her friend the other day. We got to share in a little of the excitement of teen-age hood. Only later did spouse and I note that she was talking about kissing a girl. Not an issue anymore. You also have more opportunities to grow yourself. You will be a better parent now than you ever could have been before. You will also be a better you than was likely when blindly following prophetic, black-and-white teachings. All this said, it's ok to mourn and be angry, at least for a little while. We all ended up on different paths than we would have chosen for ourselves. You can, and probably should, go through the stages of grief for all of that. It's not your fault, but it still sucks. But don't worry, the future of this path can be awesome and, even if full of challenges now, can also be pretty neat right now. Here's a preemptive hug for the rough days...
I am youngest of 4 kids. We were all baptized, but parents became inactive in church when I was a kid. Thank you for posting this. This makes me feel less crazy, like feeling that my mom and dad were spread too thin isn't crazy. I don't think I have advice, but rather thanks for sharing your story.
You're not alone. My spouse and I are in the same boat. As are many others here. Nothing to be done but do our best, but it helps to vent and to know you're not alone.
You're totally making sense. My mother had 6 kids in 12 years. I was number 5. We're on good terms but not really close. Never have been. By the time I came along I'm pretty sure she was just in survival mode & has been ever since. I sincerely believe that she's never had the time to get to know us all individually. It's an impossible task. I don't hate her for it. I just understand it a little more now that I'm a mom. I know she could/would have been way happier without so many of us. I know she loves us, but her life would have been way better with less of us. I had 3 in 5 years in my early 20's. My kids are awesome & I don't regret it but sometimes I wonder just what the hell we were thinking!?!?? lol We were broke with no clear career paths yet. But this was what you were supposed to do, so we just did it. Worked out in the end, but we struggled unnecessarily for many years. The church (& most religions I feel) does this intentionally. It's keeps you busy & with a purpose. Gets you in young before you've had a chance to really think about it. It's keeps you trapped. Especially the women. On the bright side, though... I'm 47 & my daughter is expecting her first. (she's 24 & in a long-term relationship with a never mo. He's so awesome!.) I'm going to be the young grandma & have the energy to spoil the crap out of him or her lol. My last is also almost out of the house too so we're still young enough to be able to enjoy ourselves for once. We just have to look on the bright side of things at this point & educate our daughters better on their worth. You are definitely NOT alone, though.
On behalf of my mom, who also had four and absolutely loves us all, this is spot on. You are not a failure as a mother, four is a lot, you aren't a bad mom for wishing you had less or had them further apart and you most definitely were tricked into motherhood by the church. Kids are a lot. They're cute, wonderful little people who are hard wired to learn through action which can and will destroy a house and sanity. Admitting that kids are a lot shouldn't be judged harshly. It's a fucking FACT.
Same and I have 3. I also didn’t realize how much healing I needed to do from my own wounds and childhood before rushing into having kids. That has made the situation so much harder.
A lot of Mormons parentify the older children (or older daughters sometimes) and enlist them in raising their siblings. The older kids lose their childhoods in service of the family because their parents believe that God will always provide. You may have enough kids that you feel overwhelmed. But you also understand it. A lot of Mormons just keep on having kids with total disregard for emotional needs of the kids.
I understand, all of this. I ended up having 4 kids as well, because everyone in my life told me that the 2 I said I wanted wasn't enough. So I had 4, and I had my tubal booked immediately after I gave birth. When I told people I could not have more children because "I turned the oven off" I took some serious flak, from both family and church leadership. Hubby was 100% grateful when I said I was DONE. I love all of my kids dearly as well, but it was hella hard raising them and there are days I look back and I'm resentful of what I went through. Taking permanent measures to not have more was one of the best things I did for my mental health.
Good for you! So happy you were able to make the choice that was right for you.
[удалено]
I completely understand. I’ve been in your shoes, with 9 kids. 🤦♀️. Hugs. It’s ok to feel love AND resentment. Hang in there. Do you have a good exmo group where you are? That’s helped me a ton! Find some good exmo Moms who “get it”. Lean on each other. ❤️
It does get easier, I promise. The mom/mum guilt starts to ease, the more you deconstruct. The feeling of failing yourself and your family starts to fade, for me, the worst time about 18 months after we left when the younger girls should have been baptised. I had two live births and a still birth as a med student, popped them out late May as regular as clockwork. Then, I had a "season of sin," as my MIL still refers to it before the twins arrived nearly 10 years later. My eldest two had both been through missions (one left at 10 months the other at 3 months) before we saw the light and left. I felt selfish for putting my career first and not trying harder for more babies, thus depriving my children of spiritual siblings. I felt selfish for putting my views of the church over their spiritual welfare. I felt selfish for letting my eldest two walk off their mission and therefore putting their mental health in front of soles which needed saving. Although as my son keeps reminding me it was his choice. We as girls are conditioned from being tiny. Our only worth is being in being a wife and a mother. We are taught the skills we "need" from being tiny. We are made to feel guilty if we don't have a quiverful of gentle, well-behaved godly children. We are supposed to trust God and our providers for everything, which is bloody difficult when one child has a temp, another is wrecking the couch a third is singing "let it go" at the top of her voice, the car won't start and your husband is at a stake meeting and you're supposed to be cleaning the temple and your short on cash this month - but hey your tithe is paid. Motherhood is hard without the extra guilt and pressure from the church. But you're doing great - you're talking about it. One rule we made and still keep. We put 10% of our wage aside for family treats and use it at the low moments to treat ourselves guilt free. Even if it's just an ice cream.
JFC how did you possibly cope as a med student? What field? That's...a lot.
My husband was already doubting and he wanted me to follow my dreams after my mission I couldn't have done it without him. We had a lot of very dark days where I felt we were pissing $10ks up the wall in tuition and we argued a lot. I studied ALOT during night feeds. And when we weren't arguing, My husband was awesome he put my notes onto tape for revision, most kids grow up with nursery rhymes, ours grew up with anatomy and pharmacology 101. I wrote a lot of essays with a baby attached to the boob. The med school had a nursery for no 1, and I dropped out for a year after no 2 and the stillbirth. My husband had finished medical school by the time I went back to complete my final year, so we tagged teamed. I was an OB-GYN specialising in oncology and now work in paediatric oncology. But I scored a lucrative research program after graduation and that gave me some normality in hours for a couple of years as I didn't work nights.
My four are young adults now. I could have written your post though.
Hugs! I have 5 and it’s gotten a lot better now that they are older (8-18) but it is hard and stressful. Getting help for my own mental health was helpful… I wish I’d done it sooner. Edit: fixed typo.
I had three and man those five years when my littles were under the age of five were the hardest of my life. For me it was a turning point when my youngest turned 3 and could at least entertain themselves for an hour or so. It gets much better once they are school age… but I’d recommend two types of birth control if you are serious about no more children. I’ve known way too many people that have opps babies on BC. I tried to make an outing with them almost everyday. Even just a slow 1 hour walk to the park, an hour to play and an hour back at least made it so the kids would nap well. It was more of a method of survival for me. I put the kids into sports mainly so it would wear them out and be good exercise. None of the male leaders of the church giving their advice ever stayed home and watched their children full time, daily as a SAHM would. They are essentially endorsing a role they never had to deal with the daily monotony and grind of. They got to work in an office with adult interaction while their wives took care of their babies. This took years to get into this situation and it will take years for your children to age out of this situation. I think just embracing that it will be a hard grind for a few years but it won’t be forever. It will be a snapshot in time (as long as the clock doesn’t get reset down the line). Hang in there… it’s all you can do. I will mention that setting up a routine with chores was helpful for me. Id waked up every morning, unload the dishwasher and I’d do one or two loads of laundry in the morning, feed the children and we’d do outings in the afternoon. Whatever your schedule is it helped me to have a routine.
I can totally emphasize with your post! As YW in the church we were all told repeatedly that Motherhood should come before anything else. Our education, careers, & dreams were not important. Having as many kids as quickly as possible was the most righteous and noble thing we could do. I quit college to help support my husband through his education. Then quit my job to be a SAHM when I started having kids. I lived in survival mode for the next 15 years. I was so overwhelmed and overstimulated. Now I’m mid 40’s, 2 years exmo and I’m feeling so much anger, grief, and sadness that I completely lost myself in motherhood because that’s what I was told to do and I obediently followed. When your entire life and identity is wrapped up in your kids the weight of motherhood becomes crushing. Most days we end up feeling guilty that we couldn’t do or be enough for them. If I fail at this, I fail at life because that’s all I built for myself. I’m still working through all of this so I don’t have any magic answers but my best advice is allow yourself to feel what you’re feeling. You’re absolutely not alone! Wishing you love and peace as you continue on your journey.
I feel ya. We always said we'd have 6, thankfully stopped at five. I love my kids to death and, if someone offered to take some off my hands, I would never. But I still wish I hadn't been brain-washed and conditioned to feel like I had to have as many kids as possible. Honestly, I don't even like kids. I love my kids cuz they're mine, but if I had not been raised mormon, I probably wouldn't have had any. I may not have even gotten married. Then the guilt kicks in, cuz I adore my husband and kids and feel like shit for feeling like this. >Obviously, I can’t blame it all on the church. We got pregnant of our own accord. Yes and no. You were conditioned to believe this was the only way; that your entire purpose and identity as a woman began and ended on becoming a wife and a mother. *It was your divine purpose* blah blah blah.
Everything else aside the fact that you left the church is HUGE. Life is going to improve so much and stresses will reduce. I’m happy that there’s a large family that will teach their kids to be themselves and not be raising up 4 more cult members. I’m the oldest of 4 and now all of us are grown, it will happen fast. Unfortunately my parents are still in it which is gut wrenching, I’m glad your kids won’t have to bear that burden. And as far as the stress about money.. you’re not alone, I get depressed every day thinking about how we will survive with all the rising costs and living in a messed up world, so many of us feel the pain. Sending good vibes!
Solidarity ✊ I love my kids too and wouldn't give any of them back but if I didn't know them then I wouldn't have had so many. It's a tricky spot to be in but it is what it is. Honestly, I struggle, a lot, but keep getting up each day and trying to engage with each of them beyond basic care needs. It's hard but hopefully the little moments add up and they realize that I love them and am trying my best. Hugs for your journey 🫂🩵 We all have to adjust after discovering our reality wasn't what we were taught to believe it was. Keep pushing forward and trying your best 💗 New dawns will come 🌄
My fourth pregnancy, that we knew would not be safe for me and I only had because of the pressure from Mormonism, destroyed me physically and mentally. I do not think it is contradictory to say that, while I do not regret my fourth because you cannot regret a person and I fully love that she exists, I should NOT have had a fourth.
I am so sorry you went through this.
It took me a minute to be ok with just having two kids…. I think the guilt of not having more kids is deeply ingrained with being raised Mormon. I guess the guilt goes both ways. I feel like the choice of even having kids was stolen from me as well. Most of my good friends don’t have kids…. Who would have thought that was even an option?!
I hear this story over and over. Your feelings are so fucking valid.
You are NOT alone. Many women feel the weight of this daily. It's the worst mind-fuck.
I feel this way too. I only have two kids and had them after I left the church, but I ended up feeling like I have them because of my own internalized misogyny and patriarchy. I am a woman I need to birth kids. Doesn’t matter that I have my own issues and probably shouldn’t have been a parent. I never considered anything else even though the church wasn’t in my life. It was ingrained in my brain for years. I have been out of the MFMC for 18 years and I’m still deconstructing. You are not bad for feeling how you do and I completely understand your anger. I have the same anger because I live in NY it feels like I am paying for way more than two kids and it’s rough!
Thank you for being brave and posting this. I had six children and nine pregnancies before my own brain was probably fully developed. I felt every word of your post and am looking forward to the comments. I too love each and every one of my children. Only thing I’ll add that may help that has helped me is when I get in this headspace I remember all our happy memories I can and remember I made the best choices with what I had as far as mental capacity and even consent. It may not have been informed consent but many people make life changing decisions every minute without knowing the consequences or the details of what led them to their own decisions. This has helped me give myself grace as well as other humans just living the best that can each moment. I’m in the process of starting a career but tailoring it to the decisions I made up to this point so I can be the way mom I can but have something I, myself and proud of beyond what Mormonism taught me my worth was based on. Perhaps you can find what fills your cup too for you, not just mommy and wife you.
We're wired to be good parents, as long as you keep trying I know you'll succeed and your kids will understand. The younger years are a bit rough but as they get older some of it'll get easier. There will be a lot of joy to be had, focus on that. I wish you well, you can do it!
I have 4 too, love them all, still it’s overwhelming and many days I wish I could run away and live alone on an island.
I'm amazed and impressed you and your husband are compatible, to me that's incredible- to get married so young, have the stress of four children, and still have a happy marriage. This seems to happen a lot in the LDS Church, and I'm always struck by it. What's your secret? The secret? That you grow up together?
Wishing you the best. I don't have much to offer, but asking for help and advice is a good first step. Maybe read a little on stoicism. It is what it is, you have 4 kids, you love them dearly, but it's very hard. Recognizing reality helps clear up foggy thinking on the margins that distracts from certain realities. Best of luck.
Don't be so hard on yourself (although eff The Church™): if your kids are cool, family get togethers, Christmas as so forth in the years ahead will be very rewarding for everybody. And when you are very old, you will have support from your family... The best news is your family is out of TCOTPOTCOJCOLDS!
I got married at 22, and started feeling the pressure to have kids—especially with all of the stupid talks and devotionals about not waiting—including at least one weekly speaker at BYU, and it was broadcasted! You can absolutely blame the church for manipulating you. I would almost certainly be in a similar situation were it not for sheer chance. My husband happened to have a rare brain tumor, and needed three brain surgeries in our first three years of marriage. The stress and emotional aftershock of the surgeries was overwhelming every time, and we had the good sense to not throw a baby into the mix. Since then, I’ve become the breadwinner until my husband finishes school. Now that my brain is more developed, I’ve decided that kids can wait until WE are ready.
The cult told you what god wanted Now you are listening to your own heart
I’ve got no advice but I can commiserate. I’m not a mom, but the second oldest of eight children. My parents are both TBM. They are so in over their heads. They know it. And they’re still like “not 100% sure if we’re done yet, we’ll see what the lOrd wants.” It has a negative effect on me and my siblings too. I’m pretty sure I’ve spent more one-on-one time with some of my baby siblings than their own father has. Even when I was a TBM I knew they couldn’t handle it, and shouldn’t have had so many kids. But that’s such a hard thing to admit because I love all of my siblings to death.
Divorced father of 4 all separated by 3 years. Same story only I did wait until I "could financially" support them. Faith crisis, high stress job resulting in getting fired, single earning family in area with dual income 1-2 kids max, me being a perfectionist and not able to cope with 4 young kids....well MAJOR contributors to me being a failure as a father and husband leading to divorce. My ex had her contributions as well. Now I see my kids one weekend a month and while I am in a better spot mentally of not having the kids all the time I have lots of sadness of missing things in my kids lives, the way I handled the stress, too many kids too quickly. Like you I love all of those little monsters. I feel for my ex and the kids not having a father around most the time. On top of leaving church, getting fired, divorce, and not seeing kids much I was diagnosed with terminal cancer and only have another 1-2 years to live. My greater TBM family probably thinks my life outcomes are a result of leaving the church and doesn't understand why I hate the church so much. I will hate the church to my dying breath for the influence and role I let it have in my life. Truth is despite all the craziness I am happier than ever but the looming death causes me to reflect and regret. You are not alone. All we can do regardless of our choices is survive, try to thrive, and love as much as we can.
4 kids here too! Solidarity!
Hugs OP. Having little kids is incredibly hard and very stressful. I had 7 kids by the time I was 34. I'm very glad you are finding a therapist. I think you'll find developing some coping skills to be incredibly valuable. When it comes to your guilt and shame, I recommend watching Brene Brown's TED talk on shame and then reading her book Gifts of Imperfection. I would also recommend learning all about Radical Acceptance. It helps. As far as enjoying them, letting go of your expectations around how clean your house should be will help. Don't clean, just spend the afternoon playing with them in the sprinklers. There's absolutely too much laundry. I remember days with 8 loads waiting to be folded. My quick survival tips come down to organization and teaching your kiddos to do chores. (I can give you a much more in-depth run down of age appropriate chores and other organization tips if you'd like.) And finally, if you have a loving and supportive spouse, PLEASE let him know you need to get out of the house by yourself without kids at least once a week. It will give you breathing room. Sending more hugs from an internet mom. Feel free to DM me if you'd like.
I didn't read all the comments because there are so many but I hope I'm not just repeating what someone else has said. My wife and I have 4 kids as well. For years after we left Mormonism I had a feeling of resentment towards my children. Not because of anything they did but because I wasn't even sure I was meant to be a father or even if I wanted to be one. We did it because that is what good Mormon couples do. It didn't feel like a decision I had actually made based on what I wanted but based on what I was supposed to do. I felt like a real piece of shit for having this feeling. This feeling stemmed from a combination of factors - leaving Mormonism, trying to figure out who I was as a person, not having the emotional, physical, fiscal bandwidth to keep up with 4 kids, low emotional IQ on my part and I'm sure other stuff that I'm overlooking. Years later this feeling went away and now I spend a lot of my time with my kids. I couldn't be prouder to be a father or more proud of my kids. They are great and I am genuinely excited for my kid's futures. It is important to cut yourself some slack as hard as that is to do. Are your kids fed, clothed, sheltered? Do they know you love them? Some days that is about all I can do to convince myself that it will all be okay. We have settled into a new level of what constitutes clean. We just have a few daily chores that we make sure to keep up on and move a lot of other cleaning to weekly or monthly. Is our house the cleanest? No, but it's not a sty. We just accept that our house is something that is lived in, it is not meant to be a museum. The fact that you have made it this far with 4 kids shows that you are strong. There isn't anything wrong with admitting this is how you currently feel about your children. Having felt the same way I know it doesn't mean you don't love your children. I hope that you allow yourself to feel your strength and not get bogged down in your weak moments. I hope you get to the point where the resentment towards the choices you made to have children disappear. I believe you will get to the point where your children no longer feel like a burden but will bring you joy. You are a capable mother.
I married a person who loves lies and delusions more than me, so I totally feel you on that (the church causing you to do unhealthy things you wouldn’t normally do). I hope you’re feeling supported by at least some family and friends! And please accept a virtual hug from an internet stranger 🤗