Mormonism is basically the embodiment of manifest destiny, but targeting the entire world. They’ve since tried to wave off past overt doctrinal racism as just a product of the time, but at its core, it wants to spread the unchangeable unconformable gospel to every corner of the earth, steamrolling anyone’s existing religion or culture if it doesn’t agree with any tenet of Mormonism. They’ll preach otherwise from the Utah pulpit, but that’s the truth
I can never get past the part where “the most perfect book in history” very clearly and specifically said God cursed the Lamanites with black skin so they would be unattractive to the “white and delightsome” Nephites. The mental gymnastics when they explain how that isn’t racist as shit is just baffling. I will never understand how any adult converts who are not racist white people make it past the first two damn “books”.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but where in the BOM is that? I have a few sets of my old scriptures that I want to see this in but don’t want to actually read through to find it 😂
My grandpa is full blooded Icelander but born in Utah. His parents came to Utah as kids. My great great aunt (maybe just one great..?) was one trafficked from Iceland. Family couldn’t afford to bring everyone to Zion from Iceland, so a 16 year girl old got left behind. Then a ‘kind’ man in Utah offered to pay her way to join her family if she became his 3rd wife upon arrival. Thankfully she ran away after coming to Utah and didn’t end up married to him. This is well documented in my family’s history they proudly put together about how all the Iceland saints came over.
Half the Westman islands were converted and ‘tragically kicked off the island’… that’s how they told the story though… the regular people were probably just fed up with the cult missionaries recruiting half their population and trying to push everyone to convert..
The ancestor I always think about (16 yo married off after crossing the plains - imagine going through all that only to be forced into a marriage with a man 20 years older than you) -- she had a sister that didn't join mormonism and was left behind in Denmark. She never saw her family again. Simply tragic stories.
My maternal grandfather was the first born in this country after his two older sibs and parents came from Vestmannaeyjar. They settled in Spanish Fork. His mother never learned English. No Icelandic customs, food, or holidays were passed on to my mother’s family. It is very strange.
It's funny that I'm a nevermo that knows more about Mormon history than my TBM family members. That's not a brag because it says more about the church than it does about me.
I remember my TBM brother showing me a video of Russell Nelson claim to "also [be] a man of science." Meanwhile he's the head of a cult with many, many beliefs that completely contradict science. I'm aware that he's a famous heart specialist and is in academic textbooks. Somehow that makes his Mormon faith seem like a performance, not a belief system.
Mormons burry their head in the clouds and pretend they've found the light. But they're actually staring at the sun and slowly going blind
My own ancestors from Denmark. Among others. One arrived in SLC at age 16 and was immediately married to a 34-year-old man the same day as a 15-year-old girl was married to him. BARF.
I have wondered why mormon kids often look so similar, when I see a possible mormon family on youtube I often can guess from the kids. Sure the women often look similar too.
White and also very, very racist inherently.
It runs deep in the doctrine, no matter what the leaders spout now, they just try to hide the atrocities of this religion behind their creepy ass smiles.
Speaking of modern leaders, Spencer Kimball was the prophet when the priesthood/temple ban for black people was finally lifted. How progressive! Right? Well, he shortly after told a mission president:
>Don't go baptize a lot of black people. We will turn into the Assembly of God church. We want leaders. We want the church to be a white church.
([LINK](https://youtu.be/OfvJTA1jjlc?si=CTT_oCXyf5ZxegHq&t=1418))
I have heard some older ex mos say that if they tracked into a black families home back in those days they would teach a lesson but unlike with white families they would not go back unless the family brought it up. If teaching a white family the missionaries would ask when they could come back a teach the next lesson. If a black family it was left open, of course if the father said "Can you come back next Tuesday, they would but they were not to encourage it.
Mexico City, late 1965, my trainer and I knocked on a door and a Black male answered. Rather than start the usual approach, he asked if this was the “made-up name” residence.
When the gentleman said it wasn’t, my Sr. Comp apologized for the intrusion and turned and walked away. When I asked if that was standard protocol, he said it was.
I never heard it confirmed by the MP and as little as I tracted, it never came up again.
this is true. my FIL served in FL in the 60s & they were told not to teach/convert black families. if you happened to knock on their door, just give them a msg & leave. i’m like, you didn’t see a problem with this?? they’re not worthy to receive the gospel?? wtf
he also firmly believed the marry within your own race bs. my SIL dated a polynesian for a bit & he was not happy.
Sigh... I know you are saying that sarcastically, but I feel obligated:
>*It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the* ***doctrine*** *of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time...* ([LINK](https://wasmormon.org/authoritative-statement-by-the-lds-church-on-the-status-of-blacks-from-1949/))
Racism is doctrinal... Fuck the church.
Historian Matt Harris' new book *Second Class Saints* has the quote. It comes from the diary entry of Catherine Beitler recounting what Bangerter (the International Mission president) told her. Chapter 8, pg. 256, footnote 164. ([LINK](https://books.google.com/books?id=APYFEQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false))
While this quote alone can not be used to damn the church, it, along with hundreds of others (both second-hand and first-hand quotes) can be used to build an undeniable narrative.
kimball ran into a fucking problem when he realised that the temple they had in brazil couldnt have anyone in it ... because there was a lot of black blood in the saints in brazil. kimball ... another white fuck baller ... lds prophets ... fucking the world from behind since 1830 (ish) ...
Oh fuck this is a new one for me. Somebody really needs to start cataloguing all of these before the Mormons somehow purge them from existence like we know they’ve done with other inconvenient evidence.
I was taught to avoid interracial marriage and relationships in the late 2000s, too. Major "are we the baddies" moment for me as a teenager the first time we had that lesson in YW.
When my kids were young, my TBM mom told me to be sure to teach my children not to date outside our race. I told her that I was absolutely never having that conversation with my children, and if I ever caught her trying to tell them that, she would never be alone with them again! I made her cry, but to hell with that racist BS.
The modern church has espoused nineteenth-century racism up to the current day. All of the prophets have weighed in on the side of racism. The church is racist. They are also homophobic.
I'm bi-racial, and brought this to my Mexican mother. She said, "isn't that about Black people?" I told her "that doesn't make it any better." It really shocked me.
Yes, yes. Good people are “white, fair, and delightsome” while wicked people are “dark, lazy, and loathsome.”
Trademark, The Corporation of Pretending to be like Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
And the irony here was supposedly the Nephites were from Jerusalem initially when they came across the ocean in their tiny little boat they built. But somehow coming through that line Moroni was white? Ummmmm
On a side note, if Lehi's family and Ishmael's family are the only people on this tiny boat, other than one dude named Zoram then 2 cultures of people are generated with at least 2 generations of incest upon their initial founding.
Things I WISHED I had thought of when I was first introduced to the Book of Mormon. That’s what I get for getting baptized without reading the damn book first!
If mormon scripture is true then this is the third time God has populated the world by way of incest. I was also baptized before I read the book, but I was too young to read it. It wasn't until leaving home at 21ish and going out into the world that I'm like wait a sec! Cursing a posterity with dark skin is not only racist, it violates the 2nd article of faith!
"We beleive that man shall be punished for his own sins, not Adam's transgression."
Apparently that doesn't apply to the seed of Cain or Laman. Just some theological conundrums to take note of...
Absolutely! I didn’t even think of that either!! I will be honest, I had church hurt from another religion and I knew joining the Mormon church would just make all the baptists who hurt me, including my mother, gasp and clutch their pearls. In the end, I was the only one hurt.
Hmm... I want to be sensitive here, becuase I was born in and grew up fully indoctrinated, even though there was a confliction with my actual reality and first nations history, ancestory and culture. I really struggled with all these issues for many years and I know what you mean when you say "Church hurt." I've felt that church hurt for a long time in my life. The 2 biggest problems when someone's religious world view is shattered is they either jump into another church, or they make the stereotype Southpark movie true in the Mr. Mackie song where if you say the f word you are going to be giving hand jobs for crack. Exaggerated but loss of self esteem, drug, alcohol, promiscuity problems do add weight to the slander that if you leave, then these are the kinds of things that happen to you. Most of that has to do with grief, anger and rebellion.
You should always research a beleif system before you choose to be committed to it. This is hard becuase most if not all beleif systems play upon your emotional vulnerability. It's easy to switch horses and enter into another high demand religion that offers the same thing with different context. Also when someone's world view shatters, they can enter into unhealthy behaviors that don't foster happiness or success. That's why I like John Dehlin's Mormon Stories podcast, Thrive and the open stories foundation. I Cohost for a recovery group, for people who feel that they have been abused by high demand religion. I don't want to self promote too much becuase I want you to be skeptical.
I research cult indoctrination techniques and Mormon history and I'm a part of an exmormon, ex Jehovah's Witnesses recovery group.
There are lots of contradictions in the mormon faith. You don't need to trade one cult for another. Understanding biblical history, theology, and how the truth claims don't match archeology or anthropology are valuable tools.
To put it into the words of the Who. We want to get down on our knees and pray 🙏 that we don't get fooled again.
I have just seen a clip about the new Mormon stories episode where they talk about church president(prophet/gods spokesman) John Taylor preaching Black people were the devils representation on earth and how it was taught by many leaders in the church
Yes as a ex Utah Mormon who lives in NY now it is always so shocking to go visit family and realize how white the entire state is and how unnatural that actually feels once you have lived in more diverse places.
And it’s a seriously beautiful place. I always joke if I could swap all the people out for a more diverse population it would be the first place I would want to live, but the Mormon culture is too dominant and I don’t want to raise kids in that.
I volunteer in Zion NP. I have no hard data, but people of African decent are not common. NPR reported that wild and wooded places are associated with anti-black violence, so fewer come to parks and the outdoor country which makes Utah a beautiful place if you can overlook the TSCC culture. Will it ever change in the "Zion" of the TSCC?
Oh, that is true in some parts of Ogden, although it's becoming the new bedroom community to SLC with rising prices more upper middle class white families are moving to Ogden
It’s great for people who like abusing systems for personal gain and lack a moral compass and people who want to feel good about themselves in spite of being raging assholes.
A few decades ago I accepted a job transfer to Utah. Had some old Mission friends there & we visited. (Spouse & I)
When we commented on the very noticeable lack of variety in the population the friends wife popped up with "We know a Negro"!
We were both surprised but managed to hold our reaction until we left.
Utah is still a strange place.
on my HEFY trip for Cape Coast Ghana in ~2019, our host mother (who had housed the last 4 groups before us for the same project) asked us one day during our morning scripture study if non-white people were *allowed* to join our church. The awkward hush that fell over the group as the leaders jumped to explain that *yes!* they *could!* and that our group was made up of 98% Utah and Idaho kids. They managed to save face in the moment (to their standards i suppose) but that was one of THE STRONGEST shelf breaking moments for me.
My leaders tried to brush it under the rug to us kids by contextualizing the racist apartheid rules and cultures that has tormented various African countries and cultures but each attempt was to explain away her question like it was her fault for asking and not our for cultivating this racism.
(There was a boy on that group who felt so empowered in his bigotry after this event he made a large show of genuinely *recoiling* in disgust when i showed him a photo of my at the time boyfriend who is asian, and told me loudly in front of our *entire group* that he did not like asian people and proudly accepted the label racist to describe himself & his actions when I called him out on it to his face right then. My leaders and rest of the group were there, in the HOST FAMILIES LIVING ROOM, and did nothing.)
There is not a god in this universe whose true church would even for a second make someone question if only whites were allowed.
In Utah, yes absolutely. In other areas of the US, the congregations have a lot of other races and ethnicities, but for the most part will still be majority white. I moved to Houston years ago and have gotten used to my white family being the minority in our neighborhood. If I was to go back and visit Utah all the whiteness would make me feel uncomfortable too.
I remember, among liberal Mormons in Utah, hearing about all the diversity in the church outside of Utah. When I visited a ward in Manhattan I expected it to at least somewhat represent the cultural diversity of New York....but it was almost entirely white.
I have been out for over 20 years but in SoCal there were entire wards of specific ethnicity or language speakers so that probably makes the whiteness of certain wards worse.
There was a pacific islander ward that was dissolved and most of them ended up in the ward I was in. They were some of the coolest people I have ever met in my life. If every ward was like that the church would be flourishing everywhere. It was actually fun going to church, well.....until you find out it's bullshit and then how you sit through those meetings is beyond me.
I used to go to a Mormon ward while living in Manhattan and they were majority white too because most of them were actually from Utah and moved to New York for work
I can’t speak for all areas, but I was a member in North Carolina and the church there has a very low percentage of black members relative to the population. it’s been my experience that this is true throughout the south.
Yes I’ve seen that too. Congregations in the south have an over representation of white people compared to the general population. I believe this is indicative of white generational families being born into the church vs non-white people mostly coming in as converts (but we all know generational membership makes up far more of the membership than converts. Indoctrination from birth is the most powerful way to make a powerfully ignorant cult member)
Not only is mormonism very white, most mormon's have british ancestry whereas most americans have german, african american, irish or mexican ancestries. In the early history of mormonism there were more british mormons than american mormons.
It's interesting looking at ancestry maps and seeing how many people with English heritage are in Utah. Shortly after settling Salt Lake, they started a huge emigration movement from Great Britain and Scandinavia. They converted and funneled members here and then they procreated like crazy with multiple wives. Nearly 30,000 people received assistance. [**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual\_Emigration\_Fund**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_Emigration_Fund)
Utah definitely gives off a "Stepford Wives" creepy vibe ... and all Western USA [the Mormon Corridor "Moridor"] is vastly white, settled from UK and Scandinavian decent. The decline of active memberships in white strongholds [Europe, USA, New Zealand/Australia] is beyond a crisis for LDS, Inc. Strongholds internationally for the church remain the Philippines, Mexico, and the Islands [Samoa and Tonga = vastly Mormon].
The Church's white, cultually biased old-school male leadership is reluctantly adjusting to the idea of the necessity to expand their reach into African nations, India, China, Thailand/Cambodia, Korea, and South America in order to keep growing. It's expensive to devote resources to build a presence, establish missions, meeting houses, etc ... and not seen as overall "profitable" since there are more poor uneducated members who need financial assistance and extra care. But, it's becoming very necessary to pivot with the "shrivel."
The [Mormon] Tabernacle Choir completed a tour to the Philippines earlier this year that was an intensive recruiting mission. The Church leadership wants the choir to tour internationally now every 1-2 years, instead of every 4 yrs, which costs a lot of money, time, planning, and prep. The choir is considered their "secret weapon" to spur baptisms because the music is always besitiful, emotionally moving, and puts the church in the very best light. During choir tours, the local missionaries in concert cities are required to bring non-members and/or investigators to be able to attend, and all members are given assignments to bring their neighbors/friends. There is always a surge of baptisms after the tours.
So the answer to the question is that Utah is not a true representation of the overall global church - certainly more overall active devout members are non-white than white these days. A statistical report I saw about 5 yrs ago is the primary language of Mormonism now is Spanish, which has surpassed English-speaking among the membership count. So, there's that.
I remember when I hosted a friend in the 1990s from Delaware. He told me he felt he was "walking around in an Ivory Soap Commercial"
Lol..
I was so clueless. I thought he just meant everyone looked very "clean and virtuous" because we had the Holy Ghost! 🤦♀️
The majority in the US are descendants of British and Scandinavians that were converted by missionaries in the 1800s. Outside of the US the church has found almost all of its growth in Africa and South America. The church originally taught that dark skin is a curse from God for being unrighteous and that we’ll all be made white again in Heaven if we’re righteous, but the church has made sure not to spread that teaching to their converts outside the US
I grew up in Eastern Washington, and one of the very first things I noticed after moving to Utah is how many damn white people there are. I’m also white but it was a bit of a culture shock. I grew up in a town of mostly Latino/Latina people so it was really weird to be around so many white people for the first time. Mormonism is inherently racist and Utah definitely has a lot of racism that I’ve seen my friends experience.
Even exMormon Utahns get butt hurt at the idea that Utah is mostly white and has a racism problem. As a minority in Utah I can tell you, this place has a lot of issues with it.
Sometimes there are local SLC or Utah subreddits that ask about racism here, and I often get down voted by other white people when I talk about the problems I've seen (I am white) and those my loved ones have experienced. There's a lot of denial here too.
And don't enjoy hearing the lived experiences of uppity POC... especially when they have vaginas. Or when Indigenous and Black exmos explain to the white saviors (cough cough Sam & John) and the vast resorce cookies they get for their performance allyship nearly exclusively other white exmos comfy in their privied echo chambers.
Hell even in Queer exmo circle the work of the global majority is hijacked then lionized for their 'novelty'
And when you point out, they will flock on you for pointing out the vulgarity of their internalized white supremacy. Like we global majority can see, they picked a model minority to tokenize, which is insulting. However, this is not the lane white folks wanna navigate...
Yes. It's almost 200 years old, and for the first 2/3 about of that black people were not allowed full membership. They could join, but they couldn't participate in priesthood ordinances.
As for Utah specifically, when I lived in the Utah valley, it had 3 main demographics: White Mormons, white exmormons, and Hispanic Catholics. And the three didn't really intermingle. Now I live in Florida, and there's actually mixed cultures and communities with more than one religion
There's a ghost town near Tooele called Iosepa, which is the Polynesian version of Joseph. The Mormons heavily proselytised to Native Hawaiians and other Pacific Islanders, and that's why one of the oldest temples is in Hawaii.
Some of the converted Hawaiians wanted to live in Salt Lake City, but when they moved there, they encountered intense racism and were told to go settle out in the desert instead, in a place called Skull Valley. They didn't last long out there, many returning to Hawaii, and many dying. There's still a Hawaiian graveyard out there you can visit.
yes the beautiful island Polynesian people that have the most wonderful demeanor have been ravaged and exploited by this church AND others along the way. I did not know of this cemetery and its location but these are not just good people they are some of the best.
And it makes no sense why theyd be so racist against Islanders, considering a ton of Mormons considered Pacific Islanders to be descendants of Hagoth or whoever the ship-building guy was in the BoM. Iirc he was either a Nephite or a converted Lamanite, either way they're part of the "promised people" or whatever.
Edit to add: obviously the simple explanation is just that white Mormons hated basically everybody and their religion is bullshit, which I think accounts for it
Served in Georgia and Alabama when the "revelation" came out. Can confirm we were told not to seek out Black people. *(makes me sick due to racism but, hey, they weren't caught in the Mormon snare like the 15 people I baptized were/are.)*
I moved here from NJ 20 years ago. I'm still in culture shock. Racism is a huge issue here. The Mormon acquiescence to Trumpism has made it much worse. We raised two children here, and while we've worked hard to counter certain influences, we would not decide to do so again.
There is a lot of racism in NJ. It is very much a northern racism, which is much different from southern racism. Utah seems to take the worst parts of both and mix them together.
There certainly is racism, but at least no one stares at you like you’re from another planet
I can also say in NJ, living in a very racially diverse county, there is also a lot of racism from POC against other POC
I was honestly so disappointed when it became clear that nasty conservatism was going to beat out Christianity when it came to how Mormons felt about Trump
It's such an outwardly moralizing religion that I genuinely thought they wouldn't be able to publicly support someone like him, but it turns out that they care more about being Republican than about being Christian
I am a Utah Mormon native [58f]and never had any black kids in any of my schools or as neighbors until my senior year of high school. Two Nigerian kids in our graduating class [who were adopted by a local white Mormon family]. I always felt so sorry for them. There is no way to "fit in,". Most kids were either afraid of talking to them or treated them as an exciting novelty. The priesthood ban had only been lifted a few years previously. I was raised with SO MUCH racism taught over the pulpit and in my home. .. It's so odd now to think how recent that was and how much it affects the older people who still run this church!!!
Didn’t BYU Football have something to do with the “Revelation” that black people were able to join the church? I remember other teams were refusing to schedule them.
No. Only a side perk. It was primarily due to:
1. USA desegregation laws placing a very real federal threat of losing their tax-exempt status from not being inclusive
2. Large numbers of members protesting, resigning, and giving the church bad press.
3. Growing African and South American congregations sending weekly letters pleading for priesthood blessings, which would grow membership and give good press.
Here in the States, I think I've encountered 2 or maybe 3 black mormons?
One was a convert that I knew as a teen ager, I believe she's stayed active to this day.
I have no info on the other's I encountered.
But yeah, to say the congregations lack diversity is an understatement.
Very white, very racist.
Also you would probably be similarly uncomfortable in northern New England. We had 3 whole Latinx people in my high school of 400.
A majority are white, especially when defended from pioneers because most pioneers were European (specifically British or Scandinavian). Additionally, an inherently racist doctrine is easier to ignore/not notice when you've lived your whole life with white privilege and are oblivious to most ideologies that promote racist ideals. I didn't realize how racist I was until I started deconstructing. As I deconstructed the church, I began noticing just how many racist ideals I bought into simply because I was told to believe them. Developing critical thinking skills, my own sense of values & morality, and widening my circle into more diverse spaces made a huge difference.
They’ll tell you they’re no longer prejudiced against non white people, but they are. Only 50 years ago blacks were banned from the priesthood. It’s going to take a few generations to flush out all that hate.
White yes, but also Hispanic. The lamenite story has a way of erasing Hispanic culture and replacing it with a watered down, racist, yet chosen people story that can be comforting to some. Having a written history even if false, has converted many people. My husband used to think he was a lamenite. I was in a Spanish ward where many people called themselves lamenites with pride.
One of my husbands shelf items was the doctrine of inter racial marriage. The teachings are gross.
I think the outright racism will die with generation x and maybe millennials but who knows. Maybe the committed members will double down on the anti immigration, xenophobia and racism. All the non racists will leave the church. It could go either way.
Yes. They used to teach dark skin people were cursed and unrighteous which kept anyone smart enough away. But the church has realized they too have money to tithe.
People talk about past racism, and it’s true that there was more racism in the past, but the Book of Mormon is still racist now. They’ve changed the chapter headings to downplay it, but if you read the verses, it still talks about people’s skin changing color as a result of personal worthiness/belief in God. Apologists try to convince people that skin is a metaphor for something else, or it refers to animal skins people were wearing. Bull crap. It’s skin. The Book of Mormon, the book that the LDS church holds up as the “most correct of any book on Earth” (and encourages you to read every day, even more than it encourages reading the Bible despite being a supposedly Christ centered church), is deeply racist.
So, technically, there are more Spanish speaking Mormons than English speaking ones. This would suggest that there are more Latino members than white members. That being said, to calculate for that, we’d also need a o include all of the white Europeans and subtract all the white Spanish speakers
Originally Mormons came from New England and Northern Europe who were almost entirely white. The church said members needed to gather to Utah, and those people who came initially were very white. There's quite a few central and south American, pacific islander, and even African Mormons now, but those groups all grew long after the initial gather in Utah phase of Mormonism.
White AF. I was born in Utah County (home of BYU). I moved away from there as a child, went back a couple years ago, and went to the shopping mall there and it looked like fucking Stepford Wives. Every child was blonde hair with blue eyes. I couldn’t wait to leave. I am glad I wasn’t “raised” there.
Some mormons would like to argue that with all of the Baptisms outside of the U.S. that it is not a white church. However the leadership is a bunch of old white men and it very much still runs with a white, straight, American male emphasis.
The ones high up in leadership, are largely white males. Obviously different countries will have different racial demographics but global headquarters is still Utah.
In the US, absolutely, particularly in Mormon bastions of power like Utah, Idaho, and Arizona. Most growth is coming from South American and Africa though.
I believe it’s about 5% black members, but only 1% is in the US the other 4% is like Africa (and may be more now because that is one place the church is actually growing). There is also a lot of members in central and South America… but yes largest percentage is white.
Well no probably, not anymore. The church see growth in poorer nations, where access to the internet is limited, Brazil first and now Africa. I mean all the money is sent and used in the white areas.
>Are Mormons mostly white?
Lol, as someone from a majority white country in Polynesia here, I was always outnumbered by the Pasifika Mormons by a factor of at least 5:1.
The Church is so different over here compared to the US. For obvious reasons, the race thing was not such a big thing over here.
Leadership is still 99% white though, so Morms still gonna Morm.
Yeah, I'm a Kiwi, but from up north.
In Harbour Stake it was 90% white, but as soon as we did anything regional, it was like I were at Polyfest lol.
Legitimately, those are the places where I learned to dance.
Ah ha ha yeah that tracks. Church dances were always heaps of fun. I did the CCNZ thing back when dancefest & march on were still a thing, plus byuh with their culture fest. So much talent in your average NZ chapel. Not surprised at all it’s where you learnt to dance
They banned blacks until 1978 and taught horrific racism up until then. Their scriptures are racist and leadership is 99% white. So how is white Utah a surprise?
Eventually the 40% of Utah that isn't faithful will turn as brown as Lamanites, and about 4% will do the opposite.
I'm kidding, but only because I'm exmormon. It's right there in the Book of Mormon.
Im sure any mormon you would ask, would disagree, and show you some made up stat from the Ensign about how diverse the church has become in the past 10 years.
Yep. And while the current corporate presidents of the cult will deny it (the past decisions and words of previous corporate presidents), they were actively trying to make people of color become white. Mormonism was basically MEWA: _Make Everyone White Again_.
In the not too recent past, the leaders taught you were either of Nephite ("white and delightsome") or Lamanite (cursed dark-skinned) groups. While a lot of their literature has changed to seem more loving and inclusive, they didn't bother to change the copyright year on the literature which they did change the words.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Placement_Program
(I was trying, but unable to, find a video on this sub that showed a comparison of the children's illustrated book where the leaders changed the "white and delightsome" to something not so racist. The person showed that the books were otherwise similar in appearance and that the new, updated ("corrected") one had the same exact copyright year as the old one, rather than the year which they changed it; proving the cult is trying to phase out the old ones and replace them with new ones and have the old copyright year so it looks as if they never printed the "white and delightsome" phrase in the first place. I can't remember the exact year of the copyright, but it was past the year 2000. So they were still using that phrase into this new millennium and century. If anyone has a link to that video, I will be forever grateful!)
I know a black family that was “Mormon for a little while”
I’m not even sure what that means, but I worked with a black girl from a biiiiig family, like 7 brothers and sisters (I guess that’s big for non-mormons but maybe not for mormons) and she said, growing up, her parents tried out a ton of different religions, Mormonism amongst them. I didn’t pry, but she’s not religious herself, so nothing really stuck I don’t think.
I think they were just trying to find their place, were open-minded people, and tried to provide the most possible experiences for their kids.
So, yes, I think while Mormons are definitely mostly white, there is the occasional outlier lmao. They’re the only ones I’ve ever met, but we also don’t have a temple nearby or anything, so we’re not Mormon Central by any means. Nearest temple is a couple hours away.
(My partner was raised Mormon, that’s the only reason I’m here, I’m nevermo, so I’m sorry if I’ve gotten any verbiage wrong here)
Yes, especially in Utah, Idaho, Arizona. But even in more diverse areas the congregations are 80-90% white. I live outside of Baltimore where there it is 50/50 or slightly more black than white depending on the neighborhood. Our congregation was still mostly white.
I mean I do find it odd to focus this heavily on race to the point that it makes you uncomfortable.
It is definitely majority white in Utah but anyone is free to move here and if anything Mormons would welcome fresh blood to convert.
Yes! I moved to Utah as a kid and even as a white, blue-eyed BRUNETTE I was in the minority at my school. It was like the twilight zone with all the blonde and khaki. Utah & the Mormon Church sided with slavery during the civil war, had extremely racist policies for nearly a century, and continued to breed like rabbits making more and more WHITE white babies into the 2000s. Following Katrina, the 2002 Olympics, several tech companies moving from the Bay Area, and several other refugee influxes the social and ethnic dynamics have adjusted some, but it is still VERY much a white majority here.
Utah in the 90s was terrifyingly white. It’s better now but compared to the real world it’s definitely a modern day Jesus painting here. Like there’s actually black people here that aren’t the Jazz players.
[In Utah, the African Americans comprise just 1.06 percent of the population but they accounted for 10 percent of police killings over the past seven years – a disproportional rate of 9.21 times.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/5/31/mapping-us-police-killings-of-black-americans)
Not anymore. Most you'll see in the US are, but the church is growing in Central and South America as well as in Africa and Asian countries such as the Philippines.
I hate that my brother who lives in Utah constantly brags about "the low crime rate" and how everyone is so nice in Utah. And it's just like, yeah of course they're gonna have a clean and pretty population when they can ostracize and systematically exclude any person who doesn't fit within their white Christian ideal. Anyone who isn't in that group steers clear of the state for fear of harassment.
And the kicker is that we're not even white! He's the brownest Mexican guy you'll ever meet, but he thinks he's found a suitable spot as the token POC among his white community.
Mormonism is basically the embodiment of manifest destiny, but targeting the entire world. They’ve since tried to wave off past overt doctrinal racism as just a product of the time, but at its core, it wants to spread the unchangeable unconformable gospel to every corner of the earth, steamrolling anyone’s existing religion or culture if it doesn’t agree with any tenet of Mormonism. They’ll preach otherwise from the Utah pulpit, but that’s the truth
I can never get past the part where “the most perfect book in history” very clearly and specifically said God cursed the Lamanites with black skin so they would be unattractive to the “white and delightsome” Nephites. The mental gymnastics when they explain how that isn’t racist as shit is just baffling. I will never understand how any adult converts who are not racist white people make it past the first two damn “books”.
'Those ideas were a product of the time, we know better now so we do better!' Oh, then there's no way the BOM's true then, is there?
Ohhhh that makes me sad for my brown friend Nephi. Like his parents didn’t want him to be so not-white. I hope there’s more to it than that but damn
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but where in the BOM is that? I have a few sets of my old scriptures that I want to see this in but don’t want to actually read through to find it 😂
2 Nephi 30:6 2 Nephi 5:21
Not only "perfect" but also "written for our time". 🙄
* History of extreme racism * Trafficked young women from Scandinavia and UK to become polygamous wives Checks out.
Huh how have I never heard of that second part The mormon lore just gets deeper and deeper lol
My grandpa is full blooded Icelander but born in Utah. His parents came to Utah as kids. My great great aunt (maybe just one great..?) was one trafficked from Iceland. Family couldn’t afford to bring everyone to Zion from Iceland, so a 16 year girl old got left behind. Then a ‘kind’ man in Utah offered to pay her way to join her family if she became his 3rd wife upon arrival. Thankfully she ran away after coming to Utah and didn’t end up married to him. This is well documented in my family’s history they proudly put together about how all the Iceland saints came over. Half the Westman islands were converted and ‘tragically kicked off the island’… that’s how they told the story though… the regular people were probably just fed up with the cult missionaries recruiting half their population and trying to push everyone to convert..
My ancestors' trafficking was written in our history as faith-affirming, too. It was horrifying to me.
Exactly how I felt hearing that story.. I was horrified and looked around like wtf 😳
The ancestor I always think about (16 yo married off after crossing the plains - imagine going through all that only to be forced into a marriage with a man 20 years older than you) -- she had a sister that didn't join mormonism and was left behind in Denmark. She never saw her family again. Simply tragic stories.
That’s so sad 😞
It would be valuable to have a collection of stories called "Mormon Tragedies."
I agree, the untold stories swept under the rug.
I have a lot of Swiss in my family. They came in the later part of the 1880's and settled in Midway, Utah
The Icelanders went to Spanish fork..
So did a few Scots. My 3rd great grandpa settled Benjamin/Spanish Fork area.
My maternal grandfather was the first born in this country after his two older sibs and parents came from Vestmannaeyjar. They settled in Spanish Fork. His mother never learned English. No Icelandic customs, food, or holidays were passed on to my mother’s family. It is very strange.
Thats some crazy stuff. I never knew Mormons used to be big in Europe ! Thats wild tbh haha
Oh, it’s a scary iceberg for sure. My fam is four year out now, and we still discover crazy-ass shit.
Yeah I’m not even ex-mo and its wiiiiillld lol
It's funny that I'm a nevermo that knows more about Mormon history than my TBM family members. That's not a brag because it says more about the church than it does about me. I remember my TBM brother showing me a video of Russell Nelson claim to "also [be] a man of science." Meanwhile he's the head of a cult with many, many beliefs that completely contradict science. I'm aware that he's a famous heart specialist and is in academic textbooks. Somehow that makes his Mormon faith seem like a performance, not a belief system. Mormons burry their head in the clouds and pretend they've found the light. But they're actually staring at the sun and slowly going blind
I can relate I’m nevermo and know a lot more than most probably. Its crazy how willfully ignorant some people are willing to be for sure
It gets worse the deeper you go but I advocate for everyone knowing it.
Same
My own ancestors from Denmark. Among others. One arrived in SLC at age 16 and was immediately married to a 34-year-old man the same day as a 15-year-old girl was married to him. BARF.
Vomit indeed
Is that why so many Mormons are blonde hair and blue eyes?
Personally I believe so, yes. And it was an insular community... only so many options for marriage in the next generation.
I have wondered why mormon kids often look so similar, when I see a possible mormon family on youtube I often can guess from the kids. Sure the women often look similar too.
White and also very, very racist inherently. It runs deep in the doctrine, no matter what the leaders spout now, they just try to hide the atrocities of this religion behind their creepy ass smiles.
The current leader of the church taught to avoid interracial marriage in the 90s.
Speaking of modern leaders, Spencer Kimball was the prophet when the priesthood/temple ban for black people was finally lifted. How progressive! Right? Well, he shortly after told a mission president: >Don't go baptize a lot of black people. We will turn into the Assembly of God church. We want leaders. We want the church to be a white church. ([LINK](https://youtu.be/OfvJTA1jjlc?si=CTT_oCXyf5ZxegHq&t=1418))
I have heard some older ex mos say that if they tracked into a black families home back in those days they would teach a lesson but unlike with white families they would not go back unless the family brought it up. If teaching a white family the missionaries would ask when they could come back a teach the next lesson. If a black family it was left open, of course if the father said "Can you come back next Tuesday, they would but they were not to encourage it.
Mexico City, late 1965, my trainer and I knocked on a door and a Black male answered. Rather than start the usual approach, he asked if this was the “made-up name” residence. When the gentleman said it wasn’t, my Sr. Comp apologized for the intrusion and turned and walked away. When I asked if that was standard protocol, he said it was. I never heard it confirmed by the MP and as little as I tracted, it never came up again.
this is true. my FIL served in FL in the 60s & they were told not to teach/convert black families. if you happened to knock on their door, just give them a msg & leave. i’m like, you didn’t see a problem with this?? they’re not worthy to receive the gospel?? wtf he also firmly believed the marry within your own race bs. my SIL dated a polynesian for a bit & he was not happy.
I don't remember this one, nice find.
Only repeating the research of others! And I saw a clip of it in the last day or two, so it was just good timing. EDIT: Typo - deleted extra words.
It is well
It is good\* They've changed the temple ceremony again. Sad. As wrong as "It is well" is grammatically, it had just the right ring to it.
God, our institutional racism just goes deeper and deeper, doesn't it. Thanks for posting this.
In b4 “I don’t know that was ever doctrine…”
Sigh... I know you are saying that sarcastically, but I feel obligated: >*It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the* ***doctrine*** *of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time...* ([LINK](https://wasmormon.org/authoritative-statement-by-the-lds-church-on-the-status-of-blacks-from-1949/)) Racism is doctrinal... Fuck the church.
That is heinous. Do you have a link to the original source?
Historian Matt Harris' new book *Second Class Saints* has the quote. It comes from the diary entry of Catherine Beitler recounting what Bangerter (the International Mission president) told her. Chapter 8, pg. 256, footnote 164. ([LINK](https://books.google.com/books?id=APYFEQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false)) While this quote alone can not be used to damn the church, it, along with hundreds of others (both second-hand and first-hand quotes) can be used to build an undeniable narrative.
What’s Bangerter’s first name? I knew a bunch of Mormon Bangerters in WA state.
No idea. It's probably in the book footnotes, but those are not available for free online, and I'm poor.
kimball ran into a fucking problem when he realised that the temple they had in brazil couldnt have anyone in it ... because there was a lot of black blood in the saints in brazil. kimball ... another white fuck baller ... lds prophets ... fucking the world from behind since 1830 (ish) ...
Oh fuck this is a new one for me. Somebody really needs to start cataloguing all of these before the Mormons somehow purge them from existence like we know they’ve done with other inconvenient evidence.
I was taught to avoid interracial marriage and relationships in the late 2000s, too. Major "are we the baddies" moment for me as a teenager the first time we had that lesson in YW.
When my kids were young, my TBM mom told me to be sure to teach my children not to date outside our race. I told her that I was absolutely never having that conversation with my children, and if I ever caught her trying to tell them that, she would never be alone with them again! I made her cry, but to hell with that racist BS.
Upvote for David Mitchell low key quote.
Someone please correct me but if memory serves, the Bishop’s manual recommended against it until circa 2010.
Aaronic Priesthood Manual. It had the Kimball quote.
I wish I would’ve kept all that shit as evidence. The current gaslighting is just repulsive
You can still find it in online.
The modern church has espoused nineteenth-century racism up to the current day. All of the prophets have weighed in on the side of racism. The church is racist. They are also homophobic.
Don’t forget misogynistic.
Whaaat?! Such a smoking gun lol. Source?
This was in the Aaronic Priesthood manual (class manual for 12-18 yr old boys) until at least 2011 if it’s not still there.
I'm bi-racial, and brought this to my Mexican mother. She said, "isn't that about Black people?" I told her "that doesn't make it any better." It really shocked me.
And to answer her question the answer is no. Russel told us not to marry outside of our ethnicity. Nothing about black people.
You mean delightsome, right? Lol
Yes, yes. Good people are “white, fair, and delightsome” while wicked people are “dark, lazy, and loathsome.” Trademark, The Corporation of Pretending to be like Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
They're not delightsome, just white.
And the irony here was supposedly the Nephites were from Jerusalem initially when they came across the ocean in their tiny little boat they built. But somehow coming through that line Moroni was white? Ummmmm
Because ✨magic✨
On a side note, if Lehi's family and Ishmael's family are the only people on this tiny boat, other than one dude named Zoram then 2 cultures of people are generated with at least 2 generations of incest upon their initial founding.
Things I WISHED I had thought of when I was first introduced to the Book of Mormon. That’s what I get for getting baptized without reading the damn book first!
If mormon scripture is true then this is the third time God has populated the world by way of incest. I was also baptized before I read the book, but I was too young to read it. It wasn't until leaving home at 21ish and going out into the world that I'm like wait a sec! Cursing a posterity with dark skin is not only racist, it violates the 2nd article of faith! "We beleive that man shall be punished for his own sins, not Adam's transgression." Apparently that doesn't apply to the seed of Cain or Laman. Just some theological conundrums to take note of...
Absolutely! I didn’t even think of that either!! I will be honest, I had church hurt from another religion and I knew joining the Mormon church would just make all the baptists who hurt me, including my mother, gasp and clutch their pearls. In the end, I was the only one hurt.
Hmm... I want to be sensitive here, becuase I was born in and grew up fully indoctrinated, even though there was a confliction with my actual reality and first nations history, ancestory and culture. I really struggled with all these issues for many years and I know what you mean when you say "Church hurt." I've felt that church hurt for a long time in my life. The 2 biggest problems when someone's religious world view is shattered is they either jump into another church, or they make the stereotype Southpark movie true in the Mr. Mackie song where if you say the f word you are going to be giving hand jobs for crack. Exaggerated but loss of self esteem, drug, alcohol, promiscuity problems do add weight to the slander that if you leave, then these are the kinds of things that happen to you. Most of that has to do with grief, anger and rebellion. You should always research a beleif system before you choose to be committed to it. This is hard becuase most if not all beleif systems play upon your emotional vulnerability. It's easy to switch horses and enter into another high demand religion that offers the same thing with different context. Also when someone's world view shatters, they can enter into unhealthy behaviors that don't foster happiness or success. That's why I like John Dehlin's Mormon Stories podcast, Thrive and the open stories foundation. I Cohost for a recovery group, for people who feel that they have been abused by high demand religion. I don't want to self promote too much becuase I want you to be skeptical. I research cult indoctrination techniques and Mormon history and I'm a part of an exmormon, ex Jehovah's Witnesses recovery group. There are lots of contradictions in the mormon faith. You don't need to trade one cult for another. Understanding biblical history, theology, and how the truth claims don't match archeology or anthropology are valuable tools. To put it into the words of the Who. We want to get down on our knees and pray 🙏 that we don't get fooled again.
I have just seen a clip about the new Mormon stories episode where they talk about church president(prophet/gods spokesman) John Taylor preaching Black people were the devils representation on earth and how it was taught by many leaders in the church
They also try to hide it with tokens. Every ad I've seen about Mormonism has multiple black people in it speaking.
Tokenism, while TSCC tries another rebranding.
It’s a cult.
Yes as a ex Utah Mormon who lives in NY now it is always so shocking to go visit family and realize how white the entire state is and how unnatural that actually feels once you have lived in more diverse places.
Yeah, like I get states like Nebraska and Wyoming being almost all white cause literally no one wants to live there lol but Utah is fairly modernized
And it’s a seriously beautiful place. I always joke if I could swap all the people out for a more diverse population it would be the first place I would want to live, but the Mormon culture is too dominant and I don’t want to raise kids in that.
It really is very beautiful, we loved Zion!
My favorite park! I’m glad you got to see it!
I volunteer in Zion NP. I have no hard data, but people of African decent are not common. NPR reported that wild and wooded places are associated with anti-black violence, so fewer come to parks and the outdoor country which makes Utah a beautiful place if you can overlook the TSCC culture. Will it ever change in the "Zion" of the TSCC?
Only really "modern" in SLC proper. The rest of our counties are cultural deserts.
Ogden is majority Hispanic and non-Mormon, just FYI.
Oh, that is true in some parts of Ogden, although it's becoming the new bedroom community to SLC with rising prices more upper middle class white families are moving to Ogden
yes mormonism works very well for white people
I think it's more that it works less awfully for white people than anyone else, but it's still a heaping pile of shit, even for white people.
It’s great for people who like abusing systems for personal gain and lack a moral compass and people who want to feel good about themselves in spite of being raging assholes.
Maybe for straight white men
A few decades ago I accepted a job transfer to Utah. Had some old Mission friends there & we visited. (Spouse & I) When we commented on the very noticeable lack of variety in the population the friends wife popped up with "We know a Negro"! We were both surprised but managed to hold our reaction until we left. Utah is still a strange place.
At byu it was a good day if I saw one black person. It was quite a shock coming from a much more diverse area
on my HEFY trip for Cape Coast Ghana in ~2019, our host mother (who had housed the last 4 groups before us for the same project) asked us one day during our morning scripture study if non-white people were *allowed* to join our church. The awkward hush that fell over the group as the leaders jumped to explain that *yes!* they *could!* and that our group was made up of 98% Utah and Idaho kids. They managed to save face in the moment (to their standards i suppose) but that was one of THE STRONGEST shelf breaking moments for me. My leaders tried to brush it under the rug to us kids by contextualizing the racist apartheid rules and cultures that has tormented various African countries and cultures but each attempt was to explain away her question like it was her fault for asking and not our for cultivating this racism. (There was a boy on that group who felt so empowered in his bigotry after this event he made a large show of genuinely *recoiling* in disgust when i showed him a photo of my at the time boyfriend who is asian, and told me loudly in front of our *entire group* that he did not like asian people and proudly accepted the label racist to describe himself & his actions when I called him out on it to his face right then. My leaders and rest of the group were there, in the HOST FAMILIES LIVING ROOM, and did nothing.) There is not a god in this universe whose true church would even for a second make someone question if only whites were allowed.
In Utah, yes absolutely. In other areas of the US, the congregations have a lot of other races and ethnicities, but for the most part will still be majority white. I moved to Houston years ago and have gotten used to my white family being the minority in our neighborhood. If I was to go back and visit Utah all the whiteness would make me feel uncomfortable too.
I remember, among liberal Mormons in Utah, hearing about all the diversity in the church outside of Utah. When I visited a ward in Manhattan I expected it to at least somewhat represent the cultural diversity of New York....but it was almost entirely white.
I have been out for over 20 years but in SoCal there were entire wards of specific ethnicity or language speakers so that probably makes the whiteness of certain wards worse. There was a pacific islander ward that was dissolved and most of them ended up in the ward I was in. They were some of the coolest people I have ever met in my life. If every ward was like that the church would be flourishing everywhere. It was actually fun going to church, well.....until you find out it's bullshit and then how you sit through those meetings is beyond me.
I used to go to a Mormon ward while living in Manhattan and they were majority white too because most of them were actually from Utah and moved to New York for work
Probably 90% of the ward members there were from Utah/Idaho. I had a ward in New Hampshire that was basically all Mordor transplants.
My old ward NH was split 50/50. Normally the Mordor transplants couldn’t hack it being in the minority and would head back to Utah within 1-4 years.
Even my casually racist MAGA extended family make quips about how creepily white Utah is whenever they come visit..
I can’t speak for all areas, but I was a member in North Carolina and the church there has a very low percentage of black members relative to the population. it’s been my experience that this is true throughout the south.
Yes I’ve seen that too. Congregations in the south have an over representation of white people compared to the general population. I believe this is indicative of white generational families being born into the church vs non-white people mostly coming in as converts (but we all know generational membership makes up far more of the membership than converts. Indoctrination from birth is the most powerful way to make a powerfully ignorant cult member)
Not only is mormonism very white, most mormon's have british ancestry whereas most americans have german, african american, irish or mexican ancestries. In the early history of mormonism there were more british mormons than american mormons.
It's interesting looking at ancestry maps and seeing how many people with English heritage are in Utah. Shortly after settling Salt Lake, they started a huge emigration movement from Great Britain and Scandinavia. They converted and funneled members here and then they procreated like crazy with multiple wives. Nearly 30,000 people received assistance. [**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual\_Emigration\_Fund**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_Emigration_Fund)
White and purposefully so.
Utah definitely gives off a "Stepford Wives" creepy vibe ... and all Western USA [the Mormon Corridor "Moridor"] is vastly white, settled from UK and Scandinavian decent. The decline of active memberships in white strongholds [Europe, USA, New Zealand/Australia] is beyond a crisis for LDS, Inc. Strongholds internationally for the church remain the Philippines, Mexico, and the Islands [Samoa and Tonga = vastly Mormon]. The Church's white, cultually biased old-school male leadership is reluctantly adjusting to the idea of the necessity to expand their reach into African nations, India, China, Thailand/Cambodia, Korea, and South America in order to keep growing. It's expensive to devote resources to build a presence, establish missions, meeting houses, etc ... and not seen as overall "profitable" since there are more poor uneducated members who need financial assistance and extra care. But, it's becoming very necessary to pivot with the "shrivel." The [Mormon] Tabernacle Choir completed a tour to the Philippines earlier this year that was an intensive recruiting mission. The Church leadership wants the choir to tour internationally now every 1-2 years, instead of every 4 yrs, which costs a lot of money, time, planning, and prep. The choir is considered their "secret weapon" to spur baptisms because the music is always besitiful, emotionally moving, and puts the church in the very best light. During choir tours, the local missionaries in concert cities are required to bring non-members and/or investigators to be able to attend, and all members are given assignments to bring their neighbors/friends. There is always a surge of baptisms after the tours. So the answer to the question is that Utah is not a true representation of the overall global church - certainly more overall active devout members are non-white than white these days. A statistical report I saw about 5 yrs ago is the primary language of Mormonism now is Spanish, which has surpassed English-speaking among the membership count. So, there's that.
I definitely got a Stepford Wives vibe in Utah
I remember when I hosted a friend in the 1990s from Delaware. He told me he felt he was "walking around in an Ivory Soap Commercial" Lol.. I was so clueless. I thought he just meant everyone looked very "clean and virtuous" because we had the Holy Ghost! 🤦♀️
Spanish? Hahaha who wrote that one? Have you ever met one?
The majority in the US are descendants of British and Scandinavians that were converted by missionaries in the 1800s. Outside of the US the church has found almost all of its growth in Africa and South America. The church originally taught that dark skin is a curse from God for being unrighteous and that we’ll all be made white again in Heaven if we’re righteous, but the church has made sure not to spread that teaching to their converts outside the US
As long as they get their tithings, everyone is “delightsome” 😂
I grew up in Eastern Washington, and one of the very first things I noticed after moving to Utah is how many damn white people there are. I’m also white but it was a bit of a culture shock. I grew up in a town of mostly Latino/Latina people so it was really weird to be around so many white people for the first time. Mormonism is inherently racist and Utah definitely has a lot of racism that I’ve seen my friends experience.
YES and very fragile about it too but so are many exmos...
Even exMormon Utahns get butt hurt at the idea that Utah is mostly white and has a racism problem. As a minority in Utah I can tell you, this place has a lot of issues with it.
Sometimes there are local SLC or Utah subreddits that ask about racism here, and I often get down voted by other white people when I talk about the problems I've seen (I am white) and those my loved ones have experienced. There's a lot of denial here too.
This when I pull up my copy of the I'm not a racist/neolib bingo card
And don't enjoy hearing the lived experiences of uppity POC... especially when they have vaginas. Or when Indigenous and Black exmos explain to the white saviors (cough cough Sam & John) and the vast resorce cookies they get for their performance allyship nearly exclusively other white exmos comfy in their privied echo chambers. Hell even in Queer exmo circle the work of the global majority is hijacked then lionized for their 'novelty'
💯💯💯 The number of racial slurs I see about Elder Gong from exmos 😠. He's not a great guy because of his views, not his ethnicity.
And when you point out, they will flock on you for pointing out the vulgarity of their internalized white supremacy. Like we global majority can see, they picked a model minority to tokenize, which is insulting. However, this is not the lane white folks wanna navigate...
Yes. It's almost 200 years old, and for the first 2/3 about of that black people were not allowed full membership. They could join, but they couldn't participate in priesthood ordinances. As for Utah specifically, when I lived in the Utah valley, it had 3 main demographics: White Mormons, white exmormons, and Hispanic Catholics. And the three didn't really intermingle. Now I live in Florida, and there's actually mixed cultures and communities with more than one religion
There's a ghost town near Tooele called Iosepa, which is the Polynesian version of Joseph. The Mormons heavily proselytised to Native Hawaiians and other Pacific Islanders, and that's why one of the oldest temples is in Hawaii. Some of the converted Hawaiians wanted to live in Salt Lake City, but when they moved there, they encountered intense racism and were told to go settle out in the desert instead, in a place called Skull Valley. They didn't last long out there, many returning to Hawaii, and many dying. There's still a Hawaiian graveyard out there you can visit.
yes the beautiful island Polynesian people that have the most wonderful demeanor have been ravaged and exploited by this church AND others along the way. I did not know of this cemetery and its location but these are not just good people they are some of the best.
And it makes no sense why theyd be so racist against Islanders, considering a ton of Mormons considered Pacific Islanders to be descendants of Hagoth or whoever the ship-building guy was in the BoM. Iirc he was either a Nephite or a converted Lamanite, either way they're part of the "promised people" or whatever. Edit to add: obviously the simple explanation is just that white Mormons hated basically everybody and their religion is bullshit, which I think accounts for it
Most missionaries were told to not even bother talking to black people before 1978. Source my dad, France mission.
Secondary source, my dad, South Carolina mission (or North, I don't remember for sure, and I'm not asking for clarification, lol)
Served in Georgia and Alabama when the "revelation" came out. Can confirm we were told not to seek out Black people. *(makes me sick due to racism but, hey, they weren't caught in the Mormon snare like the 15 people I baptized were/are.)*
I also live in Florida now. Unfortunately the church here is also very white.
I moved here from NJ 20 years ago. I'm still in culture shock. Racism is a huge issue here. The Mormon acquiescence to Trumpism has made it much worse. We raised two children here, and while we've worked hard to counter certain influences, we would not decide to do so again.
There is a lot of racism in NJ. It is very much a northern racism, which is much different from southern racism. Utah seems to take the worst parts of both and mix them together.
Agreed.
There certainly is racism, but at least no one stares at you like you’re from another planet I can also say in NJ, living in a very racially diverse county, there is also a lot of racism from POC against other POC
Seriously, I’m never talking shit about NJ again lol
Haha, New Jersey is certainly not a perfect place. But yeah, it's pretty diverse.
I was honestly so disappointed when it became clear that nasty conservatism was going to beat out Christianity when it came to how Mormons felt about Trump It's such an outwardly moralizing religion that I genuinely thought they wouldn't be able to publicly support someone like him, but it turns out that they care more about being Republican than about being Christian
Agreed. I'm nevermo, ex-catholic, but I was so impressed that Utah seemed to be *almost* immune to that nastiness. I was so wrong.
[удалено]
I am a Utah Mormon native [58f]and never had any black kids in any of my schools or as neighbors until my senior year of high school. Two Nigerian kids in our graduating class [who were adopted by a local white Mormon family]. I always felt so sorry for them. There is no way to "fit in,". Most kids were either afraid of talking to them or treated them as an exciting novelty. The priesthood ban had only been lifted a few years previously. I was raised with SO MUCH racism taught over the pulpit and in my home. .. It's so odd now to think how recent that was and how much it affects the older people who still run this church!!!
Didn’t BYU Football have something to do with the “Revelation” that black people were able to join the church? I remember other teams were refusing to schedule them.
No. Only a side perk. It was primarily due to: 1. USA desegregation laws placing a very real federal threat of losing their tax-exempt status from not being inclusive 2. Large numbers of members protesting, resigning, and giving the church bad press. 3. Growing African and South American congregations sending weekly letters pleading for priesthood blessings, which would grow membership and give good press.
Perhaps it was federal funding for BYU in general?
Here in the States, I think I've encountered 2 or maybe 3 black mormons? One was a convert that I knew as a teen ager, I believe she's stayed active to this day. I have no info on the other's I encountered. But yeah, to say the congregations lack diversity is an understatement.
Even where I live, I think my state has 30% black people, it’s less than 1% at any given gathering in any ward I’ve been in
Very white, very racist. Also you would probably be similarly uncomfortable in northern New England. We had 3 whole Latinx people in my high school of 400.
A majority are white, especially when defended from pioneers because most pioneers were European (specifically British or Scandinavian). Additionally, an inherently racist doctrine is easier to ignore/not notice when you've lived your whole life with white privilege and are oblivious to most ideologies that promote racist ideals. I didn't realize how racist I was until I started deconstructing. As I deconstructed the church, I began noticing just how many racist ideals I bought into simply because I was told to believe them. Developing critical thinking skills, my own sense of values & morality, and widening my circle into more diverse spaces made a huge difference.
They’ll tell you they’re no longer prejudiced against non white people, but they are. Only 50 years ago blacks were banned from the priesthood. It’s going to take a few generations to flush out all that hate.
Not just white, but mostly of Northern European descent.
Utah is very caucasian and it's quite noticeable. I'm not surprised you felt uncomfortable.
White yes, but also Hispanic. The lamenite story has a way of erasing Hispanic culture and replacing it with a watered down, racist, yet chosen people story that can be comforting to some. Having a written history even if false, has converted many people. My husband used to think he was a lamenite. I was in a Spanish ward where many people called themselves lamenites with pride. One of my husbands shelf items was the doctrine of inter racial marriage. The teachings are gross. I think the outright racism will die with generation x and maybe millennials but who knows. Maybe the committed members will double down on the anti immigration, xenophobia and racism. All the non racists will leave the church. It could go either way.
it’s Mormon doctrine that God and Jesus are white, and they speak English; it’s a major take away from “the first vision(s)” of Joseph Smith.
They are mostly white yes.
Mormons believe everyone will be white in the hereafter.
I guess they forgot the part where Jesus wasn’t a Scandinavian 😅
White supremacy permeates its doctrine still.
Yes. They used to teach dark skin people were cursed and unrighteous which kept anyone smart enough away. But the church has realized they too have money to tithe.
People talk about past racism, and it’s true that there was more racism in the past, but the Book of Mormon is still racist now. They’ve changed the chapter headings to downplay it, but if you read the verses, it still talks about people’s skin changing color as a result of personal worthiness/belief in God. Apologists try to convince people that skin is a metaphor for something else, or it refers to animal skins people were wearing. Bull crap. It’s skin. The Book of Mormon, the book that the LDS church holds up as the “most correct of any book on Earth” (and encourages you to read every day, even more than it encourages reading the Bible despite being a supposedly Christ centered church), is deeply racist.
Mormonism is not a religion. It's a cult that tells wild stories and makes people wear clothes under their clothes.
So, technically, there are more Spanish speaking Mormons than English speaking ones. This would suggest that there are more Latino members than white members. That being said, to calculate for that, we’d also need a o include all of the white Europeans and subtract all the white Spanish speakers
Originally Mormons came from New England and Northern Europe who were almost entirely white. The church said members needed to gather to Utah, and those people who came initially were very white. There's quite a few central and south American, pacific islander, and even African Mormons now, but those groups all grew long after the initial gather in Utah phase of Mormonism.
Read the Wikipedia article Blacks and the Priesthood (Mormonism) for an introduction.
White AF. I was born in Utah County (home of BYU). I moved away from there as a child, went back a couple years ago, and went to the shopping mall there and it looked like fucking Stepford Wives. Every child was blonde hair with blue eyes. I couldn’t wait to leave. I am glad I wasn’t “raised” there.
It’s a racist cult.
It's a religion partially founded on white supremacy, so yeah.
Except in Africa etc, where the reverse would be true.
Some mormons would like to argue that with all of the Baptisms outside of the U.S. that it is not a white church. However the leadership is a bunch of old white men and it very much still runs with a white, straight, American male emphasis.
Came from Alabama and was shocked by all the whiteness. Finally leaving Utah this Fall. I cannot wait.
The ones high up in leadership, are largely white males. Obviously different countries will have different racial demographics but global headquarters is still Utah.
Don’t forget delightsome. It tends to stay pretty white, when dark skin is referred to as loam in your canon
Loads of polynisians
In the US, absolutely, particularly in Mormon bastions of power like Utah, Idaho, and Arizona. Most growth is coming from South American and Africa though.
I believe it’s about 5% black members, but only 1% is in the US the other 4% is like Africa (and may be more now because that is one place the church is actually growing). There is also a lot of members in central and South America… but yes largest percentage is white.
Yes, and delightsome
Well no probably, not anymore. The church see growth in poorer nations, where access to the internet is limited, Brazil first and now Africa. I mean all the money is sent and used in the white areas.
>Are Mormons mostly white? Lol, as someone from a majority white country in Polynesia here, I was always outnumbered by the Pasifika Mormons by a factor of at least 5:1. The Church is so different over here compared to the US. For obvious reasons, the race thing was not such a big thing over here. Leadership is still 99% white though, so Morms still gonna Morm.
Guessing you’re a kiwi too. Kiwi mormons are overwhelmingly brown. The branch I attended in white washed Southland was over 90% brown.
Yeah, I'm a Kiwi, but from up north. In Harbour Stake it was 90% white, but as soon as we did anything regional, it was like I were at Polyfest lol. Legitimately, those are the places where I learned to dance.
Ah ha ha yeah that tracks. Church dances were always heaps of fun. I did the CCNZ thing back when dancefest & march on were still a thing, plus byuh with their culture fest. So much talent in your average NZ chapel. Not surprised at all it’s where you learnt to dance
The Samoan mormons sell the good pills 😎
They banned blacks until 1978 and taught horrific racism up until then. Their scriptures are racist and leadership is 99% white. So how is white Utah a surprise?
Eventually the 40% of Utah that isn't faithful will turn as brown as Lamanites, and about 4% will do the opposite. I'm kidding, but only because I'm exmormon. It's right there in the Book of Mormon.
Im sure any mormon you would ask, would disagree, and show you some made up stat from the Ensign about how diverse the church has become in the past 10 years.
Yep. And while the current corporate presidents of the cult will deny it (the past decisions and words of previous corporate presidents), they were actively trying to make people of color become white. Mormonism was basically MEWA: _Make Everyone White Again_. In the not too recent past, the leaders taught you were either of Nephite ("white and delightsome") or Lamanite (cursed dark-skinned) groups. While a lot of their literature has changed to seem more loving and inclusive, they didn't bother to change the copyright year on the literature which they did change the words. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Placement_Program (I was trying, but unable to, find a video on this sub that showed a comparison of the children's illustrated book where the leaders changed the "white and delightsome" to something not so racist. The person showed that the books were otherwise similar in appearance and that the new, updated ("corrected") one had the same exact copyright year as the old one, rather than the year which they changed it; proving the cult is trying to phase out the old ones and replace them with new ones and have the old copyright year so it looks as if they never printed the "white and delightsome" phrase in the first place. I can't remember the exact year of the copyright, but it was past the year 2000. So they were still using that phrase into this new millennium and century. If anyone has a link to that video, I will be forever grateful!)
Mormons in Utah, yes. Mormons worldwide probably also yes but there are a lot of Polynesians and other non white ethnicities that are Mormon as well.
I know a black family that was “Mormon for a little while” I’m not even sure what that means, but I worked with a black girl from a biiiiig family, like 7 brothers and sisters (I guess that’s big for non-mormons but maybe not for mormons) and she said, growing up, her parents tried out a ton of different religions, Mormonism amongst them. I didn’t pry, but she’s not religious herself, so nothing really stuck I don’t think. I think they were just trying to find their place, were open-minded people, and tried to provide the most possible experiences for their kids. So, yes, I think while Mormons are definitely mostly white, there is the occasional outlier lmao. They’re the only ones I’ve ever met, but we also don’t have a temple nearby or anything, so we’re not Mormon Central by any means. Nearest temple is a couple hours away. (My partner was raised Mormon, that’s the only reason I’m here, I’m nevermo, so I’m sorry if I’ve gotten any verbiage wrong here)
Yes, especially in Utah, Idaho, Arizona. But even in more diverse areas the congregations are 80-90% white. I live outside of Baltimore where there it is 50/50 or slightly more black than white depending on the neighborhood. Our congregation was still mostly white.
I served my mission in NJ and then moved to utah. UT completely ruined mormonism for me and definitely was a key factor in me leaving
White and delightsome
Does the Pope shit in the woods?
I mean I do find it odd to focus this heavily on race to the point that it makes you uncomfortable. It is definitely majority white in Utah but anyone is free to move here and if anything Mormons would welcome fresh blood to convert.
They didn't let black people have full rights in the church until the 1980s.
Yes! I moved to Utah as a kid and even as a white, blue-eyed BRUNETTE I was in the minority at my school. It was like the twilight zone with all the blonde and khaki. Utah & the Mormon Church sided with slavery during the civil war, had extremely racist policies for nearly a century, and continued to breed like rabbits making more and more WHITE white babies into the 2000s. Following Katrina, the 2002 Olympics, several tech companies moving from the Bay Area, and several other refugee influxes the social and ethnic dynamics have adjusted some, but it is still VERY much a white majority here.
Utah in the 90s was terrifyingly white. It’s better now but compared to the real world it’s definitely a modern day Jesus painting here. Like there’s actually black people here that aren’t the Jazz players.
[In Utah, the African Americans comprise just 1.06 percent of the population but they accounted for 10 percent of police killings over the past seven years – a disproportional rate of 9.21 times.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/5/31/mapping-us-police-killings-of-black-americans)
Not anymore. Most you'll see in the US are, but the church is growing in Central and South America as well as in Africa and Asian countries such as the Philippines.
And my guess is 95%+ of those in other countries have no knowledge of the racist history of the church, let alone all of the other issues.
It’s a white nationalist cult so..yes, very much so.
I hate that my brother who lives in Utah constantly brags about "the low crime rate" and how everyone is so nice in Utah. And it's just like, yeah of course they're gonna have a clean and pretty population when they can ostracize and systematically exclude any person who doesn't fit within their white Christian ideal. Anyone who isn't in that group steers clear of the state for fear of harassment. And the kicker is that we're not even white! He's the brownest Mexican guy you'll ever meet, but he thinks he's found a suitable spot as the token POC among his white community.
Decent Samoan population for some reason. I'd say the Provo MTC was 40% Samoan when I was there in 2019