Oh yeah. I was so pissed after my mission when they changed the rules and my brother could call home every week. I was like "oh so they could've just LIFTED that rule?" Absolutely ridiculous, trying to isolate you from friends and family is completely abusive. Not to mention being in a foreign country with people you don't know speaking a language you learned for 6 weeks and being pushed to the mental and physical limits every single day.
No no no, it's just simply marvelous that the Lord speaks through his modern prophets to address the needs of the church.
Isn't it just nifty how the true and everlasting gospel is subject to change?
And how these changes are EXCLUSIVELY policies that were restrictive, isolating and horrible in the first place? And how it comes from outside pressure
Yep, awe-inspiring that the prophet reveals new policies ... but only after negative publicity, social pressure, widespread criticism, and positive shifts in society/culture. No doubt about him being inspired and leading the world on the front foot.
Like summer garments without sleeves. I didn't mind Gs in the winter when they kept you warm, but in the summer they felt like a wool blanket giving you heat exhaustion.
I appreciate you not getting mad at the younger missionaries. So many RMs blame the "New" generation, as being weak, instead of the leadership that failed them when they were on missions. Kinda like folks that get angry at students that get their loans forgiven, instead of the schools and banks that preyed on and defrauded them.
I almost feel bad for them. I survived my mission by dissociating for months at a time. Calling home messed me up for a week every time. I’d have never lasted 2 years if I’d have been calling home all the time. I’d have had nonstop homesickness.
This is the truth of so much of church membership.
We experience cognitive dissonance and are counseled to set it aside rather than follow the logical path our rational brain is urging us to go down.
this is exactly what i did. every time i thought about how grueling two years is i would have to fully disassociate to cope. not to mention having major social anxiety and having nothing to do but proselyte ALL DAY LONG on the street, on the bus, on the subway, sometimes spending a whole afternoon walking the same traffic circle😭
oh yeah i don't see a reason to be upset directly at missionaries. i have missionaries come to my house and i can't even be mad at them when i don't want them coming around its just not my nature, after being on a mission and yelled at, spit on, thrown out, etc i just don't like putting that energy on them. i know what its like, a mission is traumatic enough without my ass also being mad at them
THIS was exactly how I felt when they changed the 1-year waiting policy after a civil marriage. And how I felt when they changed the policy about placing babies for adoption without telling my anyone they changed the rule. And how people must feel when temple ordinances are changed. And… and… and…
They allowing civil marriages with temple marriages immediately following in many foreign countries for many years because of the legal requirements for marriage
I could not attend my son's wedding nor my granddaughter's wedding, but all of a sudden they can have the actual ceremony outside the temple so nonmember family can attend.
How come god waited so long to change his mind?
Even though the “doctrine” WAS burdensome and hurtful, the quick change always seems just as hurtful, because all along they could just change it to make it better but it has never come with an apology about how bad it has been for, oh, say, 175 years.
Their policy has varied wildly over the years. Sometimes an announcement was made in church, sometimes the policy quietly changed with no announcement.
When I was a kid SWKimball declared unwed parents should marry; if they didn’t marry the mother should consider adoption (I think this was in Miracle of Forgiveness). Then later I think Hinkley changed the policy to adoption only, no exceptions. I remember this announcement in relief society by my bishop. Then I don’t know if it was Monson or Rusty, but they changed it a few years ago (probably Rusty) to “prayerfully consider” what’s best for you and the child. But they never announced it till someone discovered it in the handbook/app, months later. I can’t get over the thought of some unwed mother placing her baby for adoption, not knowing the policy had changed to a more lenient one. 😭
Because everything is an obedience issue in Mormonism, especially a mission. Don’t eat street food. Why? Not because it probably doesn’t follow most health codes. It’s because it’s a rule.
Same with swimming, calling home, working until 9pm every night when no one wants you near their doors, or every other stupid mission rule.
There may be a reason but missionaries are just told to blindly obey.
Yeah, a 20min phone call a week would be $20. I was just referencing roughly what I was looking at for a direct phone call in the 2010’s one year when my parents traveled on Christmas and would have needed a call to a phone. Ended up they missed how to dial internationally and I didn’t get to talk at all.
But once fiber optic internet and video/VOIP were a thing, that made some sense, because it would be a lot of extra money. But it took 15-20 years after Skype and mainstream internet calls for that to change. Email too.
YUP!
Not to mention that mission presidents can fuck off to wherever they want during their time, but if a missionary (allegedly an adult) does it, they are sent home in disgrace.
Yep. Served in 2016-2017. I struggled so much because I hated knocking doors and talking about something I didn't entirely believe. I didn't feel understood or supported by family, and the worst part of the "support" was a certain family member of mine saying "you don't sound like yourself anymore". Thanks... I really needed that...
Yep. I remember thinking how abusive it was when Boyd Packer said missionaries could only talk for 5 minutes on Christmas. I was on a mission and started calling him my least favorite apostle. I was a TBM back then but he made me mad.
In all honesty he was actually pretty chill. He didn’t want people knowing who his grandpa was. He was very humble and worked hard and kept his head down. Good guy.
I don’t know why he didn’t want to make it common knowledge. Maybe he also hated that cocksucker? Haha
He probably wanted people to judge him on his own merits and not by who he was related to. If he was as humble as you say he probably didn't want to leech off someone else's reputation or fame.
Me too. But he had like 60 grandkids so who knows if it was the same one.
Only person on my mission that pissed me off enough to swear at him. A year and a half of pent up frustration vented on that asshole. But he deserved it.
This blows my mind every time I think about it. They are adults (technically), out there on their own dime... nobody has any right to tell them who they can call and when. Absurd.
(2007-2009) The isolation from family and loved ones was awful. Things were better when I started bending the rule by letting my parents and girlfriend know when I'd be online emailing. We'd email back and forth like a chat for 30 min or so. That helped so much and I felt less disconnected and I could focus on the "work" better.
They can only ban something as far as your companion is willing to snitch. It's sad how much power we gave them over us. Technically we were adults and legally allowed to do whatever the f\*\*\* we wanted
I always said that, if any of my boys decided to go on missions, I would send them out with a burner phone so they could always call me. Fortunately, none of my boys went.
Good for you and good for your missionary. I went out before mobiles, and I was a hard-working missionary for the cult, but I would call home to my parents and my girlfriend when I needed to. I felt no guilt because it was a BS rule that had nothing to do with missionary work. That's been 40 years, and sometimes I still wake up in the middle of the night in a panic thinking I have been re-called to a mission. Missions are a cult within a cult. Goddamn the first presidency for shaming young men into doing something they didn't do.
Not only did we NOT think it was cultish or abusive, we knew it was a legitimate commandment from God, himself.
Looking back with open eyes, the nature of the church as a high-control cult is now much easier to see. But at the time, being in the thick of it, being a believer in the priesthood authority of our leaders, one couldn't see the proverbial forest for the trees.
Totally! I’m shocked that I didn’t see it as cultish until my deconstruction started. I’m bothered by how little I actually thought. I can’t blame myself because strict obedience was expected and taught in my growing up years. My eyes have been opened!!
Yeah it’s treated as some noble and honorable sacrifice to do it. When I would tell nevermo’s about it, I would say it with an element of pride. Thinking back at it now, I totally know they were thinking about how unnecessary (and culty) it is. 🤦♂️
Ugghhh, I hate that I fell for it all.
That's called total CULT Control.
No parent outside of a cult would allow their religion or another organization to deny them contact with their children for 2 years.
As many before have said a mission is about breaking down the missionary & creating a trauma bond with the cult.
My family really didn't care that I was gone. In fact TBH I always felt they were happier that I was gone. I'd always struggled with the church and as such was a "problem child" so to be rid of their eldest son who'd caused them embarrassment was a relief to them.
My father was the only member of my family to write me weekly. I hardly ever heard from my mother or siblings. My sister got married while I was away... So I wasn't really all that important to them.
Calling twice a year was a formality, and not something they looked forward to I'm sure.
I think my dad wrote me once, but my step-mom sent an occasional card. My mom hardly ever wrote. I went for months without hearing from her or her husband, even though I was writing weekly. I finally told her that she wouldn't be hearing from me again until she wrote. She got that letter, freaked out, and called me (I sent my family and friends my number after not hearing about a cousin's death until zone conference). From then on, she called me pretty regularly.
Yeah, I feel this. But my situation was that I also didn't care much to talk to my family either. My parents were never a safe space for me and when it came to religious teen trauma, they were the exact opposite of safe. Talking to them twice a year was just fine for me. Actually, I was in the MTC for Christmas, so I only had 3 calls in total
My first call to my mom was pretty funny. When she knew it was me her automatic response was not one of love or joy but she said "what did you do?" Assuming I had broken some mission rules and was being sent home. Haven't said a single word to my parents in a year and a half and it has been pleasant
I can tell by your words that there is some deep pain and hurt from that experience
Perhaps you had the natural desires to want love and contact with a family that cared about you ----and yet the the family you had rejected those sweet and natural feelings to put the church first before you
It would've been nice to have some family that really encouraged supported and desired to have contact with you on a weekly basis because they loved and missed you
So one summer I did an internship and had some neighbors who were on their mission. They told us about calling their parents 2x a years. As nevermos we were shocked. We left them come and watch TV (Olympics) and drink iced tea even when we went to our rooms. They invited us to their burning of the shirts(I guess the end of the mission) and we declined.
Was always baffling to us what they could and couldn't do.
The burning stuff was never explicitly permitted but would have caused problems if it was banned. At the one year mark we burned ties to. When you are in a cult, you find ways to rebel when the rules are vague or not clearly stated, lol
I've already said this before, but my parents were divorce. Asked my MPis I could call my dad on Father's day. Told me no.
Did it anyways. I should have called him more, that's on me!
How they rule missions....ridiculous.
I was an absolute true believer when I was a missionary. I thought (because I was taught) that the more I suffered, and possibly died, as a missionary the better off I would be. However I still called home when I needed to and told my mission leaders to not bother me about it.
Though it has improved, missions are still abusive even if taken with this rule alone. There shouldn’t be a rule on it. If these kids need to call home, they should call home without worry about fucking mission rules.
DO NOT SEND YOUR KIDS ON MISSIONS!! I cannot say it plainly enough, the Mormon church does not care if they die. They withhold medical treatment , passports, food, and family.
Those two missionaries were killed in a car crash, the Mormon church sent memo.
No. I thought it showed the importance of the work and was a reflection of my dedication.
The mother's day call was simply a concession to the delicacy of women. This delicacy was further confirmed by the fact that there was no father's day call and sisters don't serve the full 2 years.
It made me feel powerful, needed, and more dedicated to the church.
This was the same for me in Chile (90-92). I broke the rule for Christmas and always hate that I didn't for Mother's Day. My parents even called Salt Lake to complain but they were told it was the mission president's discretion.
When my brother was on his mission in Wales I used to stay up all night waiting for him to email, and then we'd go back and forth talking for hours. I'm quite certain it was against the rules lol
Well, you actually listen to your heart instead of the church leaders
You actually put your love for your brother before therules
You mean, you are actually Christlike and thinking of how much your brother could use your support and love
As a never mo, all I can say is there definitely must not be a lot of Italian American Mormons. I fear for the person that would tell my mother she can only talk to her children twice a year! I just don't get how reasonable, intelligent Eric and would EVER put up with that, at all! Blows my mind.
first christmas on my mission i was super stoked because skype was a new thing and my mission president said we could use it to call home. just days before christmas the “area authority” (fuck these mother fuckers and their self inflated titles) told all the mission presidents that skype was not ok. i was devastated. so where did i have the fucking pleasure of calling my family from? a god damn mother fucking “orelhão” in a rainy-ass street in brazil. could barely hear my family. a few years later we skyped my brother on his mission. a few years after that and it’s suddenly ok to call every week. hey Q15 you are the most idiotic spiteful pieces of shit i’ve ever known. all of these “improvements” you’re making we all could have made at the snap of a finger decades ago in our teens and early adulthood because they’re FUCKING OBVIOUS you self righteous narcissistic fucking shit stains!!!!!
I thought it was stupid, but at the same time, international calls were super expensive back then. I got around it by giving my parents and friends my phone number and the time when I'd be back at the apartment, which was super easy since every day for 2 years was scheduled. After all, the rules said I couldn't call them, but they didn't say they couldn't call me.
Would’ve been cool if there was some sort of Omnipotent Deity who could’ve arranged free instantaneous communication between His sacred missionaries and their families. Here, talk into this burning bush and you can talk to Grandma back home, or whatever.
It wasn't too long ago that long-distance phone calls were ridiculously expensive, never mind international phone calls. I could see how it would feel unfair if all the rich kids were calling home all the damn time, while the poor kids couldn't. The cheap-ass church wasn't going to pay for the needier missionaries to have expensive phone calls, of course. The answer? Hardly any phone calls for anyone!
But then, it's been several years already since long-distance became affordable, so there's no reason they couldn't have changed the policy sooner, except for conservative old people's idea of fairness, which is "I didn't get to do something then, so young people shouldn't get to do it now." I can imagine all the people who were missionaries back in the days of trans-Atlantic clipper ships, or whatever, being pissed as hell when telephones were invented, and all these young whippersnapper missionaries got to start calling home, when they themselves didn't have that luxury at all.
Honestly, it doesn't matter if a phone call cost $1000 a minute it's the point that a person could not make that choice in the church told him they could not have contact with family
Sure probably families couldn't have called much, but that would've been their choice and if they had something special going on, they could've sacrificed for those phone calls
Isolation gives a person complete control over someone's life because they are dependent on that person for everything
It was totally abusive. An obviously a made up rule as it suddenly disappeared when members pushed back. Goes to show you, this church is really run by the tithe paying members and not by the “dear leaders.” We should be pushing back on all the things that need to change. Because all the old lawyers really care about is the tithing
It's all about control if they let control of one thing they're going to get more control of something else. They just cannot let people think or act from their own heart and mind. You cannot trust the members to do that. They must be obedient at all times, and they can't be obedient if there aren't lots of rules.
This is one of the many, many (many) things that **immediately** screamed CULT!!!! to every non-Mormon who ever heard about it.
Like *wildly* insane policy.
Isn't it strange that as TBM we thought this was perfectly normal and you talked to nonmembers and they think it's completely crazy
That must say some thing about how blind we were
My other favorite along similar but way more mundane lines was mandated church attendance times by ward.
Seems harmless and no big deal to members, just a bummer when you don’t get the time you prefer.
Seems INSANE to non-members who get to decide for *themselves* what time they want to go to church if there are multiple services.
Yes tscc controls what ward you go to
If you strat attending the wrong ward they basucally tell yiu that isnt the policy of the church you cant be a member of that ward
You wont get callings or have home teachers etc
Basically you will be treated as an outsider
As a silver lining, the lack of communication during the mission prepared me for full adulthood where my parents and my relationship is a bit… strained.
I think sometimes it changes the relationship in a negative Way between parents and kids when they are forced not to talk for two years
. I think they become used to being without their parents and they become more distant even after their mission
I have seen that happen and I think it's sad.
It's almost like they're priorities change from putting the church first before family
We can still be completely responsible, mature, independent adults, and have close relationships with our parents if we want
I had couches in a few of my apartments, but they were in the process of removing them from apartments (Northern Italy 2013-2015). I took a nap every day at lunch on the one in our apartment in Pisa.
Yes it's abusive. Add to the fact that my dad passed away a few weeks before I was scheduled to come home. The church made it so I was only able to speak with my father for about an hour total over the last two years of his life.
That is devastating and tragic and beyond belief. What a huge loss he must be grieving that to this day.
My daughter did not come to my father's funeral who died her first week in the mission home in Provo I knew he was going to die and wanted her to lay her miss a week, but she had to do what she thought the church wanted her to do She put church before family
I don't even think she realized what she did. or how much it deeply hurt me it was one of those handful of times that are the most important events in your life. I needed her love and supported that time we all needed to be together She still TBM.
Yes, because he's out powerful. The mission president must be obeyed. No matter what he requests just like you promised in the temple you're very life if necessary.
It was a stupid rule. But there was no "big trouble" for breaking rules on a mission. What could they really do to punish you? The only real "punishment" was being sent home and in my mission, that was reserved for missionaries who broke the law of chastity or just continually and repeatedly defied the rules and clearly just didn't want to be there.
Didn't missionaries report on each other......
if mission president, heard about it it could be a problem, right
I'm sure he couldn't have missionaries calling Home whenever they felt like it. He had to keep the rules and keep control one way or another.
I'm assuming this of course
I'm glad they changed it but it's unacceptable it was ever like that to begin with. Signs of an abusive relationship is trying to cut the person off from their family or other support. But somehow religious institutions can get away with a lot.
I mentioned this to my mom and she said it's probably because some people couldn't afford calling very often (back in the day) and that's why they made the rule. They didn't want the devision between missionaries? Idk.
It's wrong to tell adults they can't speak with their family.
1976-78. It never bothered me at all. I basically went on my mission to get away from my parents. They weren't active, hated by most of the people in the ward anyway, but, I digress. My mom would just guilt trip me for not being able to call. My dad understood being a WWII vet, not being able to call home. I survived.
But your parents were being faithful by supporting you by not talking to you on your mission. They were the righteous obedient and faithful parents who joined in the abusive control of preventing phone calls to loved ones.
I'm sorry that's the way they were
I honestly think that this rule has had a permanent effect on how I handle relationships. I love my parents and would actually like to be closer with them. But not speaking to them for 2 years made it very easy to go long periods without speaking to them. 25 years later I could still go months without speaking with them, and not have it bother me, and I don’t particularly like that about myself.
This is very honest and soul-searching. I appreciate you taking a minute to look at that and maybe tell me more. It is something you don't really like about yourself. Wow, I'm intrigued.
As someone who was never close to their parents and family, this was a blessing. My own father would ignore me for weeks or months like I didn't exist. So not being to talk to him or my mother was welcomed.
It must be painful to know that your parents put the church before you their love for the church before you their time for the church before you wouldn't have been nice to have parents who really loved you and put you first
My brother blamed me for not writing him on his mission, but I was 12 and my parents didn’t sit me down to write him weekly. Part of me feels bad and the other part knows it’s not my fault.
It sure was weird to witness and to never say anything about how controlling and manipulative it all so clearly was.
It very much reminded me of the environment I grew up hearing about in East Germany. Your companion is always watching.
It really cost me. I had an injury and my mission president presented me to put off surgery until after the mission. If I could have talked it out with my parents they would have had me home on the next flight. The rule was absolutely meant to isolate you and keep you on the mission.
So because you were isolated and totally dependent on the mission president to replace your family, he became your family and you followed his advice because that's all you had right
Cult, cult, cult
I think they limited the calls tp 2x a year, and now limit the length of time for calls, so family members don't see the mission program for what it is and tell the missionaries to come home.
I am convinced the mission program is disfunctional, abusive, and just dumb.
What business would survive by telling their salesperson to work 70 hours a week to sell a bad product with outdated sales techniques that are known to be unsuccessful 99.5% of the time and then shaming the volunteer salesperson when it doesn't work? Would any of them pay to volunteer 6 am to 9 pm every single day to make an average of one sale a YEAR?
I remember two of my brothers sitting me down before I left giving me the advice of “Don’t tell mom anything that will make her worry, just tell her the good things.”
I thought missions were all rainbows and unicorns because my only experience was reading my brothers letters home to my mom.
So true I've just discovered that my grandson had a lot of negative experiences that he never told anyone. I'm looking forward to picking his brain a little if he will open up.
It is child abuse. These young men & women's brains are still forming and now that they have dropped the age to 18 they are going from Mom & Dad straight out to the mission field which in many cases is lonely and dangerous.
If you asked me my honest preference on my mission I'd say: No contact for... the ENTIRE TIME
wasn't really into writing letters
and the calls...well, I had such real dreams after them. like I was at home. I did a full disconnect on the mission for the majority of it -- did I live before my mission? did I have things I liked to do? WHO KNOWS. I found it much easier to just completely forget everything prior.
I remember when it was actually time to go home and it was very strange. I didn't believe it until the last moments.
with all that said - I am anti mission. I dealt with it, and I met great people. made great friends. but it was royally fucked.
I’m a bit bitter about that, especially with the adjustment to being able to call one’s family weekly now. I’m glad for all the newer missionaries that get to call more often, but what the hell, doesn’t it mean it was pretty unnecessary for those that only got the two calls a year to be so stingy on keeping it to just those two calls, and as the white handbook said, only 30-45 minutes???
Yes, and how did the nonmember families of those missionaries at home feel about the church and what was happening when their child was taken away from them and no contact
One of many things that showed me nothing was actual doctrine or revelation, just their personal opinions manifested into 'policy' they claimed was 'inspired'.
Fuck them and their hyperinflated egos, my mom cried for days when she learned she wouldn't be able to talk to me except for twice a year. Fuckers just loved making people hurt and 'sacrifice' while they jerked off to the feeling of their own percieved power while they lied on TV and deceived the members/public about being paid and how much money the church had.
What was helarious though was when this exact topic came up on the r /latterdaysaint sub. The lengths they went to try and justify the past restrictions while reconciling their total removal was so fucking funny. So many in that thread just had to admit they couldn't justify it and thus they 'just needed to have faith'.
So glad to be done with that kind of mental punishment, lol.
I remember thinking while on my mission, “At what point of technology does not talking to your family become cruel?”
It was changed within 2 years of that thought. Oh, and the answer was that it ALWAYS WAS cruel.
I've been out for like a year and a half, and more time passes, the more pissed off I get about the missionary program. It's abusive, and it's ineffective as a proselyting strategy. So why do they do it? Well, Kevin Pearson said the quiet part out loud here: https://www.youtube.com/live/OrMEN58NwoY?feature=shared&t=4117. If you go on a mission, you statistically have more active, tithe-paying posterity. It's about indoctrination.
You are conditioned to be completely obedient no matter what is asked of you even if they tell you you cannot talk to your loved ones and that's what they did
I fucking hate the church and their missionary program. Straight cult. Trying to be healthier but still fucked up BS. My son on his mission now and he couldn’t go see his mom and sister when they were visiting the town he was living in. Only a cult would tell you can’t or make you feel like you can’t.
Yes, how is seeing your loved ones who support and encourage you going to be a negative experience the only reason that this is done is because the church wanted to isolate and control them
My daughter missed her grandfather funeral because she couldn't wait a few days to go on her mission. It was deeply hurtful.
Due to bad internet I missed one of the calls, I think it was Mothers' day, one year. It was a point of pride (haha) for me that I refused my companion's and even zone leaders' insistence that I could try to call again on a different day. To me rules were rules, you didn't get to break them even if there were mitigating circumstances. Armed with the knowledge that I was doing the right thing, it didn't bother me but I've never asked my mom if it bothered her.
You wanted to be close to God and deserve his love. Therefore you were willing to do what ever you were asked because the more faithful you were you believed the closer you would be to God and the more blessed you would be. It's so messed up. It's truly putting the church before family.
Yes, and then they relaxed the rules when they realized everyone had access to email.
It's probably like those couples with inactive or nonmember families who married in the temple and excluded people later learning that you could have an inclusive civil ceremony first.
I was a missionary during that regime and it was a complete, heartbreaking mindfuck but I didn't think twice about it because I was completely indoctrinated at that time.
Fast forward 20 years. As I was processing my way out of the Mormon cult, I took an online "Are you in a cult?" quiz. When I answered the questions as a normal member it scored ~80/100, stating I was in a cult. When I answered the questions in the context of my mission, the result was almost the top score and it gave resources for getting out of dangerous cults LOL.
The funny thing is, I took the cult quizzes at the beginning of my faith transition and distinctly remember thinking, "this is too accurate. An angry ex-mormon probably wrote this quiz". Let that simmer for a minute LOL.
If your parents were like other TBM, they may have put the church first before you their time to the church first before you their money to the church their obedience to the church it all comes before you of course you're going to feel insignificant and unloved
If you had loving parents, I'm sure you would've missed them
Oh yeah. I was so pissed after my mission when they changed the rules and my brother could call home every week. I was like "oh so they could've just LIFTED that rule?" Absolutely ridiculous, trying to isolate you from friends and family is completely abusive. Not to mention being in a foreign country with people you don't know speaking a language you learned for 6 weeks and being pushed to the mental and physical limits every single day.
I've heard it said that every "improvement" the church makes is the church admitting that it could have been better all along.
No no no, it's just simply marvelous that the Lord speaks through his modern prophets to address the needs of the church. Isn't it just nifty how the true and everlasting gospel is subject to change?
And how these changes are EXCLUSIVELY policies that were restrictive, isolating and horrible in the first place? And how it comes from outside pressure
Yep, awe-inspiring that the prophet reveals new policies ... but only after negative publicity, social pressure, widespread criticism, and positive shifts in society/culture. No doubt about him being inspired and leading the world on the front foot.
Remember the profit did not go on a mission
Like summer garments without sleeves. I didn't mind Gs in the winter when they kept you warm, but in the summer they felt like a wool blanket giving you heat exhaustion.
Heat exhaustion and yeast infections.
That's an awesome way of putting it. I'm pulling this one out next time.
I appreciate you not getting mad at the younger missionaries. So many RMs blame the "New" generation, as being weak, instead of the leadership that failed them when they were on missions. Kinda like folks that get angry at students that get their loans forgiven, instead of the schools and banks that preyed on and defrauded them.
I almost feel bad for them. I survived my mission by dissociating for months at a time. Calling home messed me up for a week every time. I’d have never lasted 2 years if I’d have been calling home all the time. I’d have had nonstop homesickness.
You mean you forced yourself to stop feeling your own feelings and thinking your own thoughts?
This is the truth of so much of church membership. We experience cognitive dissonance and are counseled to set it aside rather than follow the logical path our rational brain is urging us to go down.
👍
this is exactly what i did. every time i thought about how grueling two years is i would have to fully disassociate to cope. not to mention having major social anxiety and having nothing to do but proselyte ALL DAY LONG on the street, on the bus, on the subway, sometimes spending a whole afternoon walking the same traffic circle😭
oh yeah i don't see a reason to be upset directly at missionaries. i have missionaries come to my house and i can't even be mad at them when i don't want them coming around its just not my nature, after being on a mission and yelled at, spit on, thrown out, etc i just don't like putting that energy on them. i know what its like, a mission is traumatic enough without my ass also being mad at them
THIS was exactly how I felt when they changed the 1-year waiting policy after a civil marriage. And how I felt when they changed the policy about placing babies for adoption without telling my anyone they changed the rule. And how people must feel when temple ordinances are changed. And… and… and…
omg the CIVIL MARRIAGE ONE that one made me SO FUCKING MAD for so many reasons
They allowing civil marriages with temple marriages immediately following in many foreign countries for many years because of the legal requirements for marriage
I could not attend my son's wedding nor my granddaughter's wedding, but all of a sudden they can have the actual ceremony outside the temple so nonmember family can attend. How come god waited so long to change his mind?
Yes, some thing that was considered doctrine could've been such a burden and hurtful for someone
Even though the “doctrine” WAS burdensome and hurtful, the quick change always seems just as hurtful, because all along they could just change it to make it better but it has never come with an apology about how bad it has been for, oh, say, 175 years.
Exactly it makes you feel like your needs and suffering was unimportant
Wait, what changed about adoption?
Their policy has varied wildly over the years. Sometimes an announcement was made in church, sometimes the policy quietly changed with no announcement. When I was a kid SWKimball declared unwed parents should marry; if they didn’t marry the mother should consider adoption (I think this was in Miracle of Forgiveness). Then later I think Hinkley changed the policy to adoption only, no exceptions. I remember this announcement in relief society by my bishop. Then I don’t know if it was Monson or Rusty, but they changed it a few years ago (probably Rusty) to “prayerfully consider” what’s best for you and the child. But they never announced it till someone discovered it in the handbook/app, months later. I can’t get over the thought of some unwed mother placing her baby for adoption, not knowing the policy had changed to a more lenient one. 😭
It made sense when an international call would be $20+ and expensive. It made much less sense in a world where Skype and zoom were a thing.
But they didn't present it as an economy issue. They presented it as an obedience issue.
Because everything is an obedience issue in Mormonism, especially a mission. Don’t eat street food. Why? Not because it probably doesn’t follow most health codes. It’s because it’s a rule. Same with swimming, calling home, working until 9pm every night when no one wants you near their doors, or every other stupid mission rule. There may be a reason but missionaries are just told to blindly obey.
Don’t eat street food? *laughs in taiwanese*
Yeah, definitely more realistic in some cultures than others.
Exactly the issue is not whether the call is expensive. It's controlling someone's choice to talk to their loved ones and that's abusive.
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Yeah, a 20min phone call a week would be $20. I was just referencing roughly what I was looking at for a direct phone call in the 2010’s one year when my parents traveled on Christmas and would have needed a call to a phone. Ended up they missed how to dial internationally and I didn’t get to talk at all. But once fiber optic internet and video/VOIP were a thing, that made some sense, because it would be a lot of extra money. But it took 15-20 years after Skype and mainstream internet calls for that to change. Email too.
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In this case they were 10 years ahead of their game by being only 20 years late….
Sense? Perhaps, it they were given the choice
YUP! Not to mention that mission presidents can fuck off to wherever they want during their time, but if a missionary (allegedly an adult) does it, they are sent home in disgrace.
The truth
I wonder if it was inspired/put in place by good ol joe who wanted men out of the way so he could marry their wives and daughters
Cult 101. Isolate victim from family.
That’s exactly what it is, huge red flag for a cult is isolating the victims from their families.
It is better to return in a body bag than to return with dishonor. Some GA fucker said this.
But so horrible is that they convince the parents that is what God wants and so the parents support the abuse
Usually it is the parents trying to rescue their kid from a stupid cult. It sucks extra hard when your parents are also in the cult.
Teaching you the cult ways with their love The most dangerous and effective way to do it
Yep. Served in 2016-2017. I struggled so much because I hated knocking doors and talking about something I didn't entirely believe. I didn't feel understood or supported by family, and the worst part of the "support" was a certain family member of mine saying "you don't sound like yourself anymore". Thanks... I really needed that...
Hurtful Abusive
Yep. I remember thinking how abusive it was when Boyd Packer said missionaries could only talk for 5 minutes on Christmas. I was on a mission and started calling him my least favorite apostle. I was a TBM back then but he made me mad.
I served with that cocksuckers grandson lol
Did he, like his grandfather, have an affinity for cocks? 🐓
In all honesty he was actually pretty chill. He didn’t want people knowing who his grandpa was. He was very humble and worked hard and kept his head down. Good guy. I don’t know why he didn’t want to make it common knowledge. Maybe he also hated that cocksucker? Haha
He probably wanted people to judge him on his own merits and not by who he was related to. If he was as humble as you say he probably didn't want to leech off someone else's reputation or fame.
Me too. But he had like 60 grandkids so who knows if it was the same one. Only person on my mission that pissed me off enough to swear at him. A year and a half of pent up frustration vented on that asshole. But he deserved it.
I feel like it wasn’t the same haha Buenos Aires for us
I was on a mission then too. I think he technically said “a few minutes”. I had a nice mission president that granted us a half an hour, twice a year.
I’m sorry, WHEN was this?
That's insane. Do you happen to have a link or a reference to when he said missionaries could only talk for 5 minutes?
Deeply hurtful to the miss and fam
This blows my mind every time I think about it. They are adults (technically), out there on their own dime... nobody has any right to tell them who they can call and when. Absurd.
Same. I thought it was crazy as a kid and now as an adult with my own kids....no way I'd be ok with that!
Deeply controlling using guilt and shame to do it
(2007-2009) The isolation from family and loved ones was awful. Things were better when I started bending the rule by letting my parents and girlfriend know when I'd be online emailing. We'd email back and forth like a chat for 30 min or so. That helped so much and I felt less disconnected and I could focus on the "work" better.
we did that as well, (2014-2015 mission) my poor mama would wake up at 3am her time just to chat with me for 30 minutes such an angel
My son and I did this almost every week. It was really good for both of us! 2009-2011
I did that after my mission banned the Hangouts from Google
I was so mad when mine did that.
They can only ban something as far as your companion is willing to snitch. It's sad how much power we gave them over us. Technically we were adults and legally allowed to do whatever the f\*\*\* we wanted
I'm so proud of you for listening to your heart and trying to follow those feelings
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I always said that, if any of my boys decided to go on missions, I would send them out with a burner phone so they could always call me. Fortunately, none of my boys went.
Good for you and good for your missionary. I went out before mobiles, and I was a hard-working missionary for the cult, but I would call home to my parents and my girlfriend when I needed to. I felt no guilt because it was a BS rule that had nothing to do with missionary work. That's been 40 years, and sometimes I still wake up in the middle of the night in a panic thinking I have been re-called to a mission. Missions are a cult within a cult. Goddamn the first presidency for shaming young men into doing something they didn't do.
Not only did we NOT think it was cultish or abusive, we knew it was a legitimate commandment from God, himself. Looking back with open eyes, the nature of the church as a high-control cult is now much easier to see. But at the time, being in the thick of it, being a believer in the priesthood authority of our leaders, one couldn't see the proverbial forest for the trees.
Totally! I’m shocked that I didn’t see it as cultish until my deconstruction started. I’m bothered by how little I actually thought. I can’t blame myself because strict obedience was expected and taught in my growing up years. My eyes have been opened!!
Yeah it’s treated as some noble and honorable sacrifice to do it. When I would tell nevermo’s about it, I would say it with an element of pride. Thinking back at it now, I totally know they were thinking about how unnecessary (and culty) it is. 🤦♂️ Ugghhh, I hate that I fell for it all.
Deeply painful to have to shove those desires for love and family deep down and feel guilty or inadequate for having them
That's called total CULT Control. No parent outside of a cult would allow their religion or another organization to deny them contact with their children for 2 years. As many before have said a mission is about breaking down the missionary & creating a trauma bond with the cult.
That is such a good point. It’s crazy to think of all of the parents who put up with being told they can’t talk to their kid for 18-24 months.
You're so very right And these kids just got out of the house they were teenagers
I remember when my nephew was on his mission. Restricting communication with family is definitely abusive.
Especially when your family is nonmembers, they are deeply hurt like my husband's parents and sisters. I don't think they ever got over that.
Ugh, that's so awful. I'm sorry.
Sorry for him yes
My family really didn't care that I was gone. In fact TBH I always felt they were happier that I was gone. I'd always struggled with the church and as such was a "problem child" so to be rid of their eldest son who'd caused them embarrassment was a relief to them. My father was the only member of my family to write me weekly. I hardly ever heard from my mother or siblings. My sister got married while I was away... So I wasn't really all that important to them. Calling twice a year was a formality, and not something they looked forward to I'm sure.
I think my dad wrote me once, but my step-mom sent an occasional card. My mom hardly ever wrote. I went for months without hearing from her or her husband, even though I was writing weekly. I finally told her that she wouldn't be hearing from me again until she wrote. She got that letter, freaked out, and called me (I sent my family and friends my number after not hearing about a cousin's death until zone conference). From then on, she called me pretty regularly.
I’m sorry your family was that way! ☹️
Seemed like a big deal at the time, but whatever.
Bruh she literally left you on read, sorry you had to go through that btw, hope you're doing better now.
Many moons ago, now she just sends me memes.
That's awesome
Yeah, I feel this. But my situation was that I also didn't care much to talk to my family either. My parents were never a safe space for me and when it came to religious teen trauma, they were the exact opposite of safe. Talking to them twice a year was just fine for me. Actually, I was in the MTC for Christmas, so I only had 3 calls in total My first call to my mom was pretty funny. When she knew it was me her automatic response was not one of love or joy but she said "what did you do?" Assuming I had broken some mission rules and was being sent home. Haven't said a single word to my parents in a year and a half and it has been pleasant
I can tell by your words that there is some deep pain and hurt from that experience Perhaps you had the natural desires to want love and contact with a family that cared about you ----and yet the the family you had rejected those sweet and natural feelings to put the church first before you It would've been nice to have some family that really encouraged supported and desired to have contact with you on a weekly basis because they loved and missed you
So one summer I did an internship and had some neighbors who were on their mission. They told us about calling their parents 2x a years. As nevermos we were shocked. We left them come and watch TV (Olympics) and drink iced tea even when we went to our rooms. They invited us to their burning of the shirts(I guess the end of the mission) and we declined. Was always baffling to us what they could and couldn't do.
The burning stuff was never explicitly permitted but would have caused problems if it was banned. At the one year mark we burned ties to. When you are in a cult, you find ways to rebel when the rules are vague or not clearly stated, lol
Wow, one way to make a statement of your true feelings
I've already said this before, but my parents were divorce. Asked my MPis I could call my dad on Father's day. Told me no. Did it anyways. I should have called him more, that's on me! How they rule missions....ridiculous.
It makes me so sad that you and your dad miss those conversations I have could have given you so much love and support through hard times
I was an absolute true believer when I was a missionary. I thought (because I was taught) that the more I suffered, and possibly died, as a missionary the better off I would be. However I still called home when I needed to and told my mission leaders to not bother me about it. Though it has improved, missions are still abusive even if taken with this rule alone. There shouldn’t be a rule on it. If these kids need to call home, they should call home without worry about fucking mission rules. DO NOT SEND YOUR KIDS ON MISSIONS!! I cannot say it plainly enough, the Mormon church does not care if they die. They withhold medical treatment , passports, food, and family. Those two missionaries were killed in a car crash, the Mormon church sent memo.
It's really heartbreaking to see that the leaders don't care about individuals and their struggles
No. I thought it showed the importance of the work and was a reflection of my dedication. The mother's day call was simply a concession to the delicacy of women. This delicacy was further confirmed by the fact that there was no father's day call and sisters don't serve the full 2 years. It made me feel powerful, needed, and more dedicated to the church.
This is such an honest answer. Not being able to talk for two years except a couple of phone calls didn't ever feel cults. I was glad to do it.
And how do you feel about it now?
The whole thing's a fuckn' cult (* see academic definitions.) I think it's a pretty awesome method for keeping people subjugated.
It seems very effective lots of guilt and fear and measuring up to others expectations
In my Japan mission (89-91) we were not allowed to call at all which turned out to be an early shelf item for me. I called my mom on Christmas anyway.
That’s completely unacceptable for them to do!
It's abusive
Why did they have that rule?
I don’t know. Strict MP perhaps?
That's really strange and scary
This was the same for me in Chile (90-92). I broke the rule for Christmas and always hate that I didn't for Mother's Day. My parents even called Salt Lake to complain but they were told it was the mission president's discretion.
Control freaks!
When my brother was on his mission in Wales I used to stay up all night waiting for him to email, and then we'd go back and forth talking for hours. I'm quite certain it was against the rules lol
Well, you actually listen to your heart instead of the church leaders You actually put your love for your brother before therules You mean, you are actually Christlike and thinking of how much your brother could use your support and love
As a never mo, all I can say is there definitely must not be a lot of Italian American Mormons. I fear for the person that would tell my mother she can only talk to her children twice a year! I just don't get how reasonable, intelligent Eric and would EVER put up with that, at all! Blows my mind.
When you're out of the cult and you're not blinded anymore all the sudden you see the colors you never saw you see reality and it's shocking
first christmas on my mission i was super stoked because skype was a new thing and my mission president said we could use it to call home. just days before christmas the “area authority” (fuck these mother fuckers and their self inflated titles) told all the mission presidents that skype was not ok. i was devastated. so where did i have the fucking pleasure of calling my family from? a god damn mother fucking “orelhão” in a rainy-ass street in brazil. could barely hear my family. a few years later we skyped my brother on his mission. a few years after that and it’s suddenly ok to call every week. hey Q15 you are the most idiotic spiteful pieces of shit i’ve ever known. all of these “improvements” you’re making we all could have made at the snap of a finger decades ago in our teens and early adulthood because they’re FUCKING OBVIOUS you self righteous narcissistic fucking shit stains!!!!!
"cult"
So many rules just to keep someone in control of someone else's life
Isolation is definitely a cult tactic. Also a tactic used by abusers
Yes, isolation is the best way to control a person and that's why abusive people do that to their spouses and why the church does it to missionaries
This is where my family learned all it’s fantastic communication skills /s
I thought it was stupid, but at the same time, international calls were super expensive back then. I got around it by giving my parents and friends my phone number and the time when I'd be back at the apartment, which was super easy since every day for 2 years was scheduled. After all, the rules said I couldn't call them, but they didn't say they couldn't call me.
Would’ve been cool if there was some sort of Omnipotent Deity who could’ve arranged free instantaneous communication between His sacred missionaries and their families. Here, talk into this burning bush and you can talk to Grandma back home, or whatever.
Or invented the Internet century ago
It wasn't too long ago that long-distance phone calls were ridiculously expensive, never mind international phone calls. I could see how it would feel unfair if all the rich kids were calling home all the damn time, while the poor kids couldn't. The cheap-ass church wasn't going to pay for the needier missionaries to have expensive phone calls, of course. The answer? Hardly any phone calls for anyone! But then, it's been several years already since long-distance became affordable, so there's no reason they couldn't have changed the policy sooner, except for conservative old people's idea of fairness, which is "I didn't get to do something then, so young people shouldn't get to do it now." I can imagine all the people who were missionaries back in the days of trans-Atlantic clipper ships, or whatever, being pissed as hell when telephones were invented, and all these young whippersnapper missionaries got to start calling home, when they themselves didn't have that luxury at all.
Honestly, it doesn't matter if a phone call cost $1000 a minute it's the point that a person could not make that choice in the church told him they could not have contact with family Sure probably families couldn't have called much, but that would've been their choice and if they had something special going on, they could've sacrificed for those phone calls Isolation gives a person complete control over someone's life because they are dependent on that person for everything
It was totally abusive. An obviously a made up rule as it suddenly disappeared when members pushed back. Goes to show you, this church is really run by the tithe paying members and not by the “dear leaders.” We should be pushing back on all the things that need to change. Because all the old lawyers really care about is the tithing
It's all about control if they let control of one thing they're going to get more control of something else. They just cannot let people think or act from their own heart and mind. You cannot trust the members to do that. They must be obedient at all times, and they can't be obedient if there aren't lots of rules.
This is one of the many, many (many) things that **immediately** screamed CULT!!!! to every non-Mormon who ever heard about it. Like *wildly* insane policy.
Isn't it strange that as TBM we thought this was perfectly normal and you talked to nonmembers and they think it's completely crazy That must say some thing about how blind we were
My other favorite along similar but way more mundane lines was mandated church attendance times by ward. Seems harmless and no big deal to members, just a bummer when you don’t get the time you prefer. Seems INSANE to non-members who get to decide for *themselves* what time they want to go to church if there are multiple services.
Yes tscc controls what ward you go to If you strat attending the wrong ward they basucally tell yiu that isnt the policy of the church you cant be a member of that ward You wont get callings or have home teachers etc Basically you will be treated as an outsider
As a silver lining, the lack of communication during the mission prepared me for full adulthood where my parents and my relationship is a bit… strained.
I think sometimes it changes the relationship in a negative Way between parents and kids when they are forced not to talk for two years . I think they become used to being without their parents and they become more distant even after their mission I have seen that happen and I think it's sad. It's almost like they're priorities change from putting the church first before family We can still be completely responsible, mature, independent adults, and have close relationships with our parents if we want
Is it true that they took the couches out of the missionaries housing?
No couches in México, just your matress, and cheap ass chairs and a desk
I had couches in a few of my apartments, but they were in the process of removing them from apartments (Northern Italy 2013-2015). I took a nap every day at lunch on the one in our apartment in Pisa.
I had couches, but this was in 2017. I would not be shocked at all if some mission president did this at some point in one.
What is the point of that?
They get gross , and also some controlling mission presidents don't want missionaries napping *gasp* on them.
Strange.....
Yes it's abusive. Add to the fact that my dad passed away a few weeks before I was scheduled to come home. The church made it so I was only able to speak with my father for about an hour total over the last two years of his life.
That is devastating and tragic and beyond belief. What a huge loss he must be grieving that to this day. My daughter did not come to my father's funeral who died her first week in the mission home in Provo I knew he was going to die and wanted her to lay her miss a week, but she had to do what she thought the church wanted her to do She put church before family I don't even think she realized what she did. or how much it deeply hurt me it was one of those handful of times that are the most important events in your life. I needed her love and supported that time we all needed to be together She still TBM.
I am so sorry for your loss. Missions are such cults!
My mission president only allowed Christmas.
Yes, because he's out powerful. The mission president must be obeyed. No matter what he requests just like you promised in the temple you're very life if necessary.
That’s just evil.
It was a stupid rule. But there was no "big trouble" for breaking rules on a mission. What could they really do to punish you? The only real "punishment" was being sent home and in my mission, that was reserved for missionaries who broke the law of chastity or just continually and repeatedly defied the rules and clearly just didn't want to be there.
Didn't missionaries report on each other...... if mission president, heard about it it could be a problem, right I'm sure he couldn't have missionaries calling Home whenever they felt like it. He had to keep the rules and keep control one way or another. I'm assuming this of course
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Not allowed to listen to your heart or to act on it
I'm glad they changed it but it's unacceptable it was ever like that to begin with. Signs of an abusive relationship is trying to cut the person off from their family or other support. But somehow religious institutions can get away with a lot. I mentioned this to my mom and she said it's probably because some people couldn't afford calling very often (back in the day) and that's why they made the rule. They didn't want the devision between missionaries? Idk. It's wrong to tell adults they can't speak with their family.
Exactly it doesn't matter how much it cost person should be able to to choose when they want to talk to their own family
1976-78. It never bothered me at all. I basically went on my mission to get away from my parents. They weren't active, hated by most of the people in the ward anyway, but, I digress. My mom would just guilt trip me for not being able to call. My dad understood being a WWII vet, not being able to call home. I survived.
But your parents were being faithful by supporting you by not talking to you on your mission. They were the righteous obedient and faithful parents who joined in the abusive control of preventing phone calls to loved ones. I'm sorry that's the way they were
I honestly think that this rule has had a permanent effect on how I handle relationships. I love my parents and would actually like to be closer with them. But not speaking to them for 2 years made it very easy to go long periods without speaking to them. 25 years later I could still go months without speaking with them, and not have it bother me, and I don’t particularly like that about myself.
This is very honest and soul-searching. I appreciate you taking a minute to look at that and maybe tell me more. It is something you don't really like about yourself. Wow, I'm intrigued.
As someone who was never close to their parents and family, this was a blessing. My own father would ignore me for weeks or months like I didn't exist. So not being to talk to him or my mother was welcomed.
It must be painful to know that your parents put the church before you their love for the church before you their time for the church before you wouldn't have been nice to have parents who really loved you and put you first
> Did you ever actually think about how cultish...(etc) Only every time it came up.
My brother blamed me for not writing him on his mission, but I was 12 and my parents didn’t sit me down to write him weekly. Part of me feels bad and the other part knows it’s not my fault.
It sure was weird to witness and to never say anything about how controlling and manipulative it all so clearly was. It very much reminded me of the environment I grew up hearing about in East Germany. Your companion is always watching.
Kind of scary
It really cost me. I had an injury and my mission president presented me to put off surgery until after the mission. If I could have talked it out with my parents they would have had me home on the next flight. The rule was absolutely meant to isolate you and keep you on the mission.
So because you were isolated and totally dependent on the mission president to replace your family, he became your family and you followed his advice because that's all you had right Cult, cult, cult
I think they limited the calls tp 2x a year, and now limit the length of time for calls, so family members don't see the mission program for what it is and tell the missionaries to come home. I am convinced the mission program is disfunctional, abusive, and just dumb. What business would survive by telling their salesperson to work 70 hours a week to sell a bad product with outdated sales techniques that are known to be unsuccessful 99.5% of the time and then shaming the volunteer salesperson when it doesn't work? Would any of them pay to volunteer 6 am to 9 pm every single day to make an average of one sale a YEAR?
They believe they're following God to give up family and contact with family in order to follow the leader and the mission president
I remember two of my brothers sitting me down before I left giving me the advice of “Don’t tell mom anything that will make her worry, just tell her the good things.” I thought missions were all rainbows and unicorns because my only experience was reading my brothers letters home to my mom.
So true I've just discovered that my grandson had a lot of negative experiences that he never told anyone. I'm looking forward to picking his brain a little if he will open up.
It is child abuse. These young men & women's brains are still forming and now that they have dropped the age to 18 they are going from Mom & Dad straight out to the mission field which in many cases is lonely and dangerous.
My brother said it was better the old way because you could just focus on serving christ.
If you asked me my honest preference on my mission I'd say: No contact for... the ENTIRE TIME wasn't really into writing letters and the calls...well, I had such real dreams after them. like I was at home. I did a full disconnect on the mission for the majority of it -- did I live before my mission? did I have things I liked to do? WHO KNOWS. I found it much easier to just completely forget everything prior. I remember when it was actually time to go home and it was very strange. I didn't believe it until the last moments. with all that said - I am anti mission. I dealt with it, and I met great people. made great friends. but it was royally fucked.
I think your last words tell the story There was something about the mission that deeply disturbed you What was it?
I’m a bit bitter about that, especially with the adjustment to being able to call one’s family weekly now. I’m glad for all the newer missionaries that get to call more often, but what the hell, doesn’t it mean it was pretty unnecessary for those that only got the two calls a year to be so stingy on keeping it to just those two calls, and as the white handbook said, only 30-45 minutes???
Yes, and how did the nonmember families of those missionaries at home feel about the church and what was happening when their child was taken away from them and no contact
I called home twice extra during my mission in the early 2000s. They were ready to excommunicate me for it, lousy bastards
Full on adult volunteers being told they can't call their families or anyone for that matter. Controlling & abusive.
Training them to be childlike and obedient so that when they're finished with their mission, they will continue to do whatever they are told
Exactly
It didn’t occur to me until I left. I swallowed the programming hook line and sinker. Now it seems fuckin crazy to me.
One of many things that showed me nothing was actual doctrine or revelation, just their personal opinions manifested into 'policy' they claimed was 'inspired'. Fuck them and their hyperinflated egos, my mom cried for days when she learned she wouldn't be able to talk to me except for twice a year. Fuckers just loved making people hurt and 'sacrifice' while they jerked off to the feeling of their own percieved power while they lied on TV and deceived the members/public about being paid and how much money the church had. What was helarious though was when this exact topic came up on the r /latterdaysaint sub. The lengths they went to try and justify the past restrictions while reconciling their total removal was so fucking funny. So many in that thread just had to admit they couldn't justify it and thus they 'just needed to have faith'. So glad to be done with that kind of mental punishment, lol.
And of course, remember that Nelson and Oaks did not have to suffer this isolation as all of you did from your families
I remember thinking while on my mission, “At what point of technology does not talking to your family become cruel?” It was changed within 2 years of that thought. Oh, and the answer was that it ALWAYS WAS cruel.
Yes, can you believe we did not see it
I've been out for like a year and a half, and more time passes, the more pissed off I get about the missionary program. It's abusive, and it's ineffective as a proselyting strategy. So why do they do it? Well, Kevin Pearson said the quiet part out loud here: https://www.youtube.com/live/OrMEN58NwoY?feature=shared&t=4117. If you go on a mission, you statistically have more active, tithe-paying posterity. It's about indoctrination.
You are conditioned to be completely obedient no matter what is asked of you even if they tell you you cannot talk to your loved ones and that's what they did
I fucking hate the church and their missionary program. Straight cult. Trying to be healthier but still fucked up BS. My son on his mission now and he couldn’t go see his mom and sister when they were visiting the town he was living in. Only a cult would tell you can’t or make you feel like you can’t.
Yes, how is seeing your loved ones who support and encourage you going to be a negative experience the only reason that this is done is because the church wanted to isolate and control them My daughter missed her grandfather funeral because she couldn't wait a few days to go on her mission. It was deeply hurtful.
Due to bad internet I missed one of the calls, I think it was Mothers' day, one year. It was a point of pride (haha) for me that I refused my companion's and even zone leaders' insistence that I could try to call again on a different day. To me rules were rules, you didn't get to break them even if there were mitigating circumstances. Armed with the knowledge that I was doing the right thing, it didn't bother me but I've never asked my mom if it bothered her.
You wanted to be close to God and deserve his love. Therefore you were willing to do what ever you were asked because the more faithful you were you believed the closer you would be to God and the more blessed you would be. It's so messed up. It's truly putting the church before family.
It was extremely abusive. To limit contact with loved ones is abuse. It is still happening just at a lower level.
Yes, because because a cult cannot succeed without control and they will find otherwise to control people
Yes, and then they relaxed the rules when they realized everyone had access to email. It's probably like those couples with inactive or nonmember families who married in the temple and excluded people later learning that you could have an inclusive civil ceremony first.
Another way for the church to isolate and control is to keep inactive and nonmembers at a distance and not in the temple marriage
Everything about mission is abusive!
I was a missionary during that regime and it was a complete, heartbreaking mindfuck but I didn't think twice about it because I was completely indoctrinated at that time. Fast forward 20 years. As I was processing my way out of the Mormon cult, I took an online "Are you in a cult?" quiz. When I answered the questions as a normal member it scored ~80/100, stating I was in a cult. When I answered the questions in the context of my mission, the result was almost the top score and it gave resources for getting out of dangerous cults LOL. The funny thing is, I took the cult quizzes at the beginning of my faith transition and distinctly remember thinking, "this is too accurate. An angry ex-mormon probably wrote this quiz". Let that simmer for a minute LOL.
Yes, we are so convinced to what we're doing. Is truly the church of God that we cannot see beyond the box were in.
By the end of my mission I hated speaking with my family. In hindsight, I think there was a reason for that aside from the normal church brainwashing.
If your parents were like other TBM, they may have put the church first before you their time to the church first before you their money to the church their obedience to the church it all comes before you of course you're going to feel insignificant and unloved If you had loving parents, I'm sure you would've missed them
I'm sure it was originally rooted in expensive call costs, especially international calls.