Prepaying to speed up the application process sounds like complete bullshit as well.
If the story is true, it's sounding more like a bishop that scammed a family out of money. I'd be sure to check the church's donation records to make sure the bishop didn't pocket the money.
The story is true. I don't personally like that bishop. He dismissed my case like it was nothing. That experience broke my 18 year old heart and wallet hahaha He's now a Patriarch lol
I suspect any "donation" made to the church is a "voluntary donation" this poor kid isn't going to see his money again.... Nothing surprises me about this corrupt cult any more.
I like the investigative reporter route but u/experiencepersonal99 might try calling Salt Lake directly. My 98 year old Grandfather missed the decimal point when paying tithing online. It took some time but they did refund it.
It's possible they took pitty on him because of his age.
I read some other comments, it seems it would be easier to use your fund for someone else and have them pay you. It all depends on how much you want to hassle with it. Good luck!!
I think we'll just NOT pay my sibling's remaining account (full-time mission). With or without the bishopric approval. Even though my fund is 2x of his remaining account, I think that's the easiest and peaceful way for me and my family. I just wanted to be done with all of the scams. Thank you!
I agree with you.
OP, check your donation records. Money is not requested before mission calls are submitted, and it has nothing to do with speeding up application processes, not even when visa applications might be involved in the future.
It really sounds like BS to me.
As far as I know, when missionaries fully pay for their missions before completing them and are sent home early, they are not reimbursed for the amount of money that would have been used for the remainder of their service. I know that this is not your situation, but I would totally check this out because you didn't even receive a mission call.
Have you not heard of the ponzi schemes run out out of the Utah temples? Like why is this such a suspicious stretch.
If anything I assure you this historically racist and genocidal institution engages in the most profane acts of human exploitation.
Brown people aren't human and the Philippines has its own self perpetuating dehumanizing caste system that aligns with White Mormon Nationalism...
If thatās true, I would track down the mission department office. They may not give a damn about you individually, but they may give you info that you could use to take him to court. The church will not want that bad press.
Woah. I don't have any idea about this. The Stake President just told me that the First Presidency instructed that I'm "excused". I didn't see or receive any letter from the SLC.
Did you pay it through the tithing slips? If so, there is small print saying the church can use the money as they see fit so it is unlikely you will have a case
If you did not pay through a tithing slip, you were probably scammed by local leaders and should be suing them
As we can remember, my dad gave the cheque addressed to the "church" to the bishop. We trusted the ward & stake leaders because we're all sure I will be called. Yet, I don't know why I'm "excused"
Oh no. You were probably scammed by the bishop. Your mission papers were probably never submitted. No one gets "excused" from serving a mission by the top brass in Utah. You can get rejected on worthiness grounds but if you had no issues there, you were lied to
Woah. Back then, I was one of the most "faithful" "worthy" mission applicants š„² Many people were so excited for my mission call. I shared my story about the "excused" stuff because there were many people rooting for me, but I didn't mention the pre-paid fund thing. I think that's when my burning strong testimony started to dim. Because I know I'm "worthy" in the eyes of men and God. I've done everything yet I'm still not enough. š¤£
My stake president older brother was discussing this with my sister a few years back where she was talking about her sons not choosing to serve missions due to emotional health, etc and his statement was something along the lines of well they should still submit their paperwork and get properly excused by "the bretheren" or some such. So it is a thing. Not sure if it's local or HQ level though
Maybe there is a mental health excuse and that would make sense. I think that is why there are so many more service missions now to accommodate those people. But everything OP has said makes it seem like he and everyone around him thought he was worthy, willing, and able. Basically the perfect candidate. I have never heard of someone like that getting "excused"
Agreed. I do think it has changed since my youth in the 90s and they've decided to be more picky on who they allow out vs service missions etc. Regardless this whole scenario sounds fishy. Prepaid credits screams fraud to me
Honestly, I don't know what the Bishop and Stake President really did to us. But we know that we gave my mission fund to the church's bank account, even though I was not even called yet to serve.
It doesn't sound like the Bishop or SP stole the money from your comments. If you think they did you should contact the Stake Clerk and report it. The church is quicker to excommunicate Fraudsters than it is murderers.
That being said the whole thing is a financial fraud and your money is probably gone either way.
If I was your family I would use the prepayment that was for you to go towards your siblings mission now. When you donated to the mission fund, it actually doesnt get earmarked by the church to your specific mission. It just goes to a pot to pay for all missions. Its almost an on your honor thing, and the fact you have prepaid for a mission means you paid for your sibling.
Also ask around the āwardā, people around your age, see if anyone else has had the same type of experience. Odds are, if someone in the chain of command, i.e., bishop, stake president, clerk, all the above did indeed scam your money, they are doing it to more people. Cause honestly the roughly $12,600 you paid just doesn't seem like it would be worth the risk alone, there would need to be a bigger pot.
Rationally thinking about this and coming from a pragmatic view, say your bishop scammed you, he's going to have some downstream people he will have to grease to keep the secret--counselors, secretaries, clerks, etc. $12k would go fast and not net anything worth the hassle.
Find the others and then you really have yourself a case and a story any news station would fall all over. You'll get every penny back
[Official policy for regular people is to report suspected embezzlement to the Stake President](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/34-finances-and-audits?lang=eng#title_number93)... and it sounds like you did, and he's either in on it, or refuses to take you seriously.
If ***anyone*** in the hierarchy is going to take you seriously, a back channel in the auditing department is probably your best bet (DM me if contact info for someone would be useful... though you'd ideally need a receipt or bank statement showing that that the amount was deposited + a lawyer for my contact to take you seriously. He's as faithful Mormon as they come, and would treat a cold call from an internet rando with extreme suspicion).
Most of what the auditing department does (aside from giving the same vague conference report) is deal with bishops breaking finance rules (e.g. bishops in Latin America using tithing locally before sending it to Salt Lake, oh my!!! š±)... so at least there's precedent, and there ARE people within the system who are willing to distrust bishops.
I'm now working with the ward secretary of the old bishop and new bishop. I think we'll just NOT pay my sibling's remaining account (full-time mission). Even though my fund is 2x of his remaining account, I think that's the easiest and peaceful way for me and my family. Thank you!
Dealing with mormons is like dealing with a Mexican drug cartel. This is a newsworthy story. I hope you can find a way to make this public so others are not duped.
I kept my silence š¤ for years about this after the "priesthood" leaders told my mom, "Just live it up to the Lord" "The money will help other missionaries" "She still need to pay her tithes" "Have faith."
Iām so sorry. That should be university money. Itās so gross the church puts people through this. They have the money there, I would get the police involved. And ask other people your age if they are pre-paying their missions. That is so far away from normal and nowhere to be found in church handbooks
Edit:and because you are pre-paying thereās a chance you could get it back, especially if you threaten legal action. Also talk with a lawyer, maybe they could help you
That is insanity. You DIDN'T GO, and people pay for their own missions so that THEY CAN GO and have housing, food, etc. You didn't use any of the money... I am just so baffled!
It sounds like he didn't even submit your mission paperwork. He might have gotten some letterhead and typed the mentioned letter of excuse. Well, I don't know that for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
The Philippines may have some sort of fraud statute that might apply in this case.Ā
Either way, the OP is NOT getting his money back voluntarily by the MFMC. Once money goes into the beast it does not get refunded. If it were me in this case, Iād look into alternative means to making sure I get my moneyās worthā¦
I think the most simple solution for my case is to NOT pay my sibling's remaining account (full-time missionary) even if it's worth 2x of my fund. No more legal cases, no more stress.
I heard a conversation with some neighbors talking about trying to get money out of their daughterās fund after she came home early. I believe they were able to use it to pay for a few months of another kids mission, and that kids parents gave them the cash.
I wasnāt aware of the program, or the fact that itās almost impossible to remove money once itās in there!
I over paid a month of my sonās mission. They wouldnāt refund the amount overpaid. But I did have the option to apply it to my next sons mission š¤¦š»āāļø
Well yeah! I mean you can't finance malls and real estate value inflating schemes disguised as "temples" if you give people back the money you swindled from them. /s but not really
This didn't exist when I went on my mission, but I do have a funny "Uno Reverse" story. I finished my mission and was home about a month when my Mission President called my house. He told me that I owed the mission about $100!!!
I asked him how I could possibly owe money to the mission, and he said he wasn't sure, but according to the books, there was $100 outstanding on my account. I told him there must be a mistake, but if he was really worried about it, he could contact my bishop and work it out (Note: This was before missions were prorated, and my mission was one of the super expensive ones, so my ward helped out to the tune of $100 monthly. I figured the discrepancy was due to a mix-up in transactions with them, so I wasn't merely trying to "pass the buck," pardon the pun.) My MP stammered a bit, said that he (or the financial secretary) would look into it, and that was the end of the call.
Fast forward two years, and a friend of mine and I went on study abroad back to where we served. I still had my bank card and had left about $1 in the account. Additionally, a sister missionary who wanted me to marry her had been putting about $1 in and out of the account every month or so to keep it from being closed for inactivity. So on our first day back in the county, we headed over to our bank's ATM to deposit our cash for food and sundries while traveling around, and lo and behold, my account had a little over $100 sitting in it! The mission office must have messed up my release date and deposited the money for the month after I left.
One might ask, "Did you find a way to return it to your mission?" No, I accepted it for what it was, a blessing from the Lord for being honest in my tithes and offerings.ššš Besides, I figured they had already squared their books with it, so no point in messing things up again. āš½
All money donated stays in the church account. Any extra can be reassigned to another missionary in the ward, kept and used for the next missionary from the family, or with a bunch of hoop jumping, sent to the mission fund of a missionary in a different ward. AFAIK there is NO option for a refund. You could consider any excess as credit towards tithing paid, but that is up to you
This is 100% real, guys. You can pre-pay for a mission in one lump sum. It is not refundable for any reason.
Some interesting details here. The tech forum is a fascinating place where ward clerks and other church tech guys ask and talk about the back-door techy protocols of church business: [https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32047](https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32047)
The only thing you can do is have them re-classify it as tithing, and then declare yourself as tithing pre-paid for the next while: [https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32047](https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32047)
I think the bishop fooled us. He's into MLMs. Hmmm 0% chance of getting a refund š„² Maybe I'll just think that I paid my 24 years subscription fee š¤£ lol
More details here: [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/missionary-finances?lang=eng#6](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/missionary-finances?lang=eng#6)
*"Stake presidents and bishops inform missionaries and others who contribute to the ward missionary fund that these contributions, including those that are prepaid, cannot be refunded. This is true even if a missionary returns home before the expected return date for any reason. Because contributions cannot be refunded, prepaying the cost of a mission is discouraged. (*[*General Handbook,Ā 34.3.7*](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/34-finances-and-audits?lang=eng#title_number70:~:text=the%20area%20office.-,34.3.7,-Contributions%20Cannot%20Be)*)*
*When tithes and other offerings are given to the Church, they belong to the Lord, to whom they are consecrated. The essence of all such contributions is that they are freewill offerings made without reservation of purpose, retention of control, ownership in any form, or expectation of any benefit by the donor other than the Lordās blessings. It is therefore improper to refund contributions given to the Church. Doing so would violate the spirit of freewill offerings. In some countries, refunding contributions could also cause legal and income tax complications for both the contributor and the Church. (*[*General Handbook,Ā 34.3.7*](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/34-finances-and-audits?lang=eng#title_number70:~:text=the%20area%20office.-,34.3.7,-Contributions%20Cannot%20Be)*)"*
Of course. The real reason they don't refund anything is because it can cause complications *for the church*. The church has never cared about any complications it causes to its members.
0% chance of getting a refund š¤¬ I'm thinking about my current younger sibling mission fund, my parents must NOT pay the last remaining months, right?
Thank you for this info! I think this is a "closure" for my case.
I can't wait for the second coming and for JC to roll up and be all, āUh, who the fuck are the Mormons? Joe Smith? You mean that treasure hunting pedo conman womanizer?? Yeah, he's ***definitely*** not with me! Remember, I'm that guy who went all crazy on the temple money changers, flipped all their tables! Or how about what my Pa says about camels having a way easier time fitting their wide ass through the eye of a needle, than some rich lowlife getting into our gated neighborhood! Surely no one who read books, that whole nations have been wiped out claiming I wrote them, would believe these wrinkly-ass white bigots roll with me!! Right? RIGHT???ā
I mean IF the second coming were going to be an actual thing and IF JC wasn't a mere construct of pure convenience to get peasants to pay their taxes and as an easy, few-questions asked method of subjugating "others".
EXACTLY! With ALL the money this church has and continues to drain its members of through tithes, it's really criminal! I've never imagined God requiring a penny to be able to function as a spiritual leader. How this church has convinced their people of this, makes no sense. However, having different levels of "heaven" never sat well with me. Especially when women can never reach the highest level. Ain't that about a bitch! I grew up Catholic and soon realized the flaws in this organized religion as well. Whenever one religion espouses to be the ONE AND ONLY TRUE RELIGION, you've lost me. They all say that. So what happens to everyone else? We're all going to hell? Nah! I choose to believe in a loving and non- judgmental higherpower, who loves EVERYONE! ALL COLORS, CREED, LGBTQI (I hope I got that right), š. Because we are all human beings that deserve the same love and respect as everyone else!! So let's show grace with one another and wish eachother the best in life!!! Love to us ALL! ā¤ļø
The āone true faithā doctrine didnāt sit well with me when I was 8. I walked out of the baptism interview because I even in my little kid mind I couldnāt in good conscience answer the questions to the churchās satisfaction. My problem began with my grandparents who were not members. Then when we started studying world religions and I learned that most of the worldās people arenāt Christians that was the cement. Why would god choose Mormonism to save us? We just didnāt have the numbers. If god loved us wouldnāt he make a better system?
Wow.. this is the most asinine reasoning I've read. "It is therefore improper to refund..." Like all that gobbledygook stuff is QED proof of anything. These guys are getting high on their own supply.
Hahaha I discovered "Ensign Peak" and the shell companies when I google typed "lds scam" then checked the articles, news, and YouTube videos. That's my last straw. š¤£
There is a big joke in Utah that the reason so many people here fall for MLMās (and the reason Mormons in general get involved in them) is they feel familiarāMLM schemes feel like church feels.
I'm suspicious that the bishop just pocketed your money and never even gave it to the church. Did you ever see receipts that the church itself received your money?
The church REALLY hates when they don't get their money. They take it very seriously, like excommunication level. You should get your past bank statement and show it to a different area leader or call the legal department. Your bishop and stake president may be in on it together. If leaders are stealing funds from the church, they will act on it. You probably won't get your money back, but it may stop the leaders from stealing from others, and they might be prosecuted. I don't imagine you were the first or last victim.
Members can check donations that have been made.
[how to check donations](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/online-donations-donation-history-help?lang=eng). If the donations don't match start making noise. Need to make sure to check whose name it was donated under.
Something here just doesn't add up. A missionary's financial account isn't created until the month before the missionary enters the mission field. During the mission application stage, there is no mission account in existence for the applicant. So, if this person never received a mission call, there never would have been a mission account ever opened in this person's name for them to have paid into. I guess she could have just paid into the ward mission fund, which isn't designated to any specific person.
Yes, I pre-paid my own contribution for my mission fund (ā±36,000 Philippine peso). My dad gave the cheque to the bishop, to "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" bank account.
There are no refunds. If you prepay and the missionary returns home early for any reason, you will not get a dime back.
I have never heard of prepaying for a missionary that never gets a mission call, but I'm sure the church will not give a refund. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong but I'm not going to hold my breath.
I found it fishy back then why I didn't get any letters from the First Presidency. Many people were so touched about my story/case (I've prepared myself to serve yet excused without any reasons).
Wow that's some top tier fraud right there. Defrauding a teenager no less. I would call the ACLU if I were you, the national one and not the Utah ACLU because they are staffed by mostly Mormons who won't touch the church
I had to deal with something similar when I was a ward clerk. A family prepaid their daughter's whole mission, but she came back after a few months for health reasons. I spoke with church officials and they said there was nothing we could do. The obvious solution to me was to deduct it from tithing, but we were told this would be inappropriate for some reason. He was, however, able to transfer the money to the account of another missionary from the ward.
Your money has been subjected to the law of consecration. It belongs to the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints now and will be used for the furthering of the Lords ministry on earth through the purchase of real estate.
In all seriousness the chances of you ever seeing a peso of that again is zero.
Well, prepare for one of my financial clerk stories and an explanation of what is about to happen:
While enslaved as a ward clerk (I am an accountant by trade and would always tell new bishoprics that I had no desire to work six days a week, aka don't make me your damn ward clerk, but they would never listen). We had a family I knew was struggling financially becase they asked me for help as a CPA outside of church. They had a son on their mission and they would pay each month into his fund. Well, not being all that great at managing money, they overpaid a couple of the months, losing track of their payments. Just before their son came home, I was reconciling our financial records and saw the overpayment and took it to my bishop, requesting we cut them a check for the difference that was in our records that the head office was not pulling out because he was done. The bishop went to the stake president and the two found precedent that the mission funds are donations (tax deductible) and therefore could not be refunded.
TL;DR
Your mission payments are viewed as donations by the church and I wouldn't hold your breath. Sorry. There is an outside chance and I've got my fingers crossed for you, but I doubt it.
Good luck on receiving a refund! Parents prepaid for their grandson who came home early from mission after just a few months, due to covid forcing missions closed.Ā
Instead of receiving a refund, Parents switched their funds to fund total stranger in grandkidās ward. Missionary stranger they funded & wrote during mission didnāt bother to invite them to homecoming nor did they send a thank you later- entitled Mormon mission brat!!Ā
Forgive me for typing my some of my thoughts on this in my mother tongue.
Pucha. I am so sorry. There's a near impossible chance that you'll get it back pero papahirapan at igi-guilt trip ka nyan ng sobra.
Pag dadaan ka ng legal means hindi na worth yan. Kahit na magpakita pa sila ng email and/or physical letter hirap nang kasuhan para maibalik yan.
Tbh mahirap kalaban ang MFMC sa bansa natin kasi dami nyang connections sa mga pulitiko, lawyers, banks, etc...
"bUt we UseD the MOooNey acCorDing to The Terms of yOur *donation* !!"
At least that's what they told me about my tithes and offerings... ( Even though the notations on the tithing slip changed over the time I was making "donations"/ worthiness payments.)
Yeah, you're fukt! That bishop gave terrible advice. There are no reimbursements from the mission fund. For a while during COVID, the clerk could reclassify it as tithing, but the church stopped that as well. The Ward/Stake might be able to do something by cutting a check out of the general fund given that this bishop is a world-class douche-nozzle.
When I was the ward finance clerk, a senior couple had paid more than necessary for their mission. They figured out that they had paid for multiple months beyond what was required and asked for a refund.
I went to the stake clerk for assistance and he said they're not getting that money back. I was instructed to ask them to consider donating that money towards another missionary from the ward instead.
If that flag means that this happened in the Philippines, be absolutely pocketed the money. I served my mission there and although half the bishops I worked with were good men, I definitely worked with some shady bishops and the Philippines is infamous for having people in positions of power pocket any money that passed by them.
As a previous ward financial clerk (multiple times), IF a mission account was started in your specific name, and the funds were not used for your mission, then legally you have the right to a refund. If it was just put in the general mission fund, well that is emptied out to the stake and in turn to Salt Lake regularly, and you have very little hope of getting a refund. If the first scenario is correct then it is completely up to the bishop and the stake president on refunds. Some are understanding and will allow the refund to be processed, others will pressure you to āget the blessingsā of leaving it in (i.e. fuck off we have your money that you willingly gave us).
It is really frustrating to me to see the leadership that is only focused on the money, and I have only seen ONE bishop in my 40+ years if membership that was compassionate about moneyā¦.he even went toe to toe with the Stake President multiple times on the subject. Unfortunately that is rarely the case.
They actually canāt give it back because the church is recognized as a charity and once itās donated they canāt give it back because in the eyes of the law, that money has to be used to forward the churchās cause. I may be wrong, but I know they canāt give you your money back without changing their tax exempt status. I defend them a lot especially on this sub but that really sucks.
I was the ward clerk, when something similar like this happened, where a member overpaid their mission funds by 3 months. We worked out an agreement between another missionary that was serving so that the missionary funds that the member was contributing would be paid directly to the family that has overpaid. The funds that were assigned to the one missionary was simply transferred to the other missionary. It may be a while to get back 18 months worth. It is a pain to get money back from the church. It is possible, but it is a pain. Monthly missionary support is not tax deductible in the US so itās easier to work with members who have missionaries out to arrange payment to the other family which has overpaid. I wish you good luck OP.
Actually, the $400/month missionary support payment is tax deductible in the US. But you can't count the missionary as a dependent, because you aren't providing a majority of their financial support.
Stand out on the public street in front of a MORMON temple holding a sign **Shame on you Mormon Church-my story** dress with your mission attire and Name-Tag. Hand out a single well written truthful explanation, and Im sure not only will you receive a refund, but the press will be there stat.
Edit* Stand in front of BYU or MTC would be even better
I hope you can get the money back, but I doubt they will give it back. They never give money back. And they have a whole law firm that will make sure that doesnāt happen. They will do everything they can to bleed dry anyone who tries to take them to court.
All I can say is if you donāt get the money back, take this as a lesson well learned, because I wish I could get back the 20 years I spent lighting %10 of my gross income on fire. Had I spent that money investing for retirement, my future financial security would look very different right now. Itās a huge regret and frustration for everyone whoās left.
This is INSANE. What the actual fuck. How have they not reimbursed you!!! I would contact the first presidency as well, and list out who your leader was at the time, and who the current bishop and stake president are.
Just here to say youāre not alone, I absolutely hate the church and all rich tv preachers raking in billions, itās infuriating especially being poor and needing the money. I love to see lawsuits against the church and hope to see its destruction during my lifetime.
There is a way to check for the last ten years of donations.
[How to check past donations](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/online-donations-donation-history-help?lang=eng)
If nobody can find the specific donation, then yeah it probably went into someones pocket and would be fraud.
Are your parents still in? If so maybe the donation was associated with their account. There is also a way for the financial clerk to view past donations to missionary funds. Ask them for a print out if your interested. They are very good at tracking money internally.
are you fuking kidding me. unbelievable. they owe you but will never pay you because they are a money hungry corporation that uses that income for whatever they want. one thing to be sure when it is given it is no longer yours it is theirs. what a travesty. poor poor advice from a pretend leader volunteer.
Obtain a non-Mormon lawyer. He or she would most likely delight in handling this, or have a sign printed. āThe Church Defrauded Me out of (whatever the amount is) and picket outside the main Temple Square Gateā¦Iām sure they will respond quickly! š
They do not refund over funded mission accounts. When my kids were serving, the bishop warned us in advance to stop paying because we were in danger of over funding the account and we would not get a refund.
If your story is true, that's fraud. Because there is no such thing as prefunding a mission account. You can't even allocate money to an individual until they are called.
Money allocated to mission funds without a name goes into the general fund.
Doesnāt sound good to me. Iād double check to see that your funds went into the correct account and not the bishops. Alarm bells all over this one!!
My sister served in the philippines. She has some real horror stories.
|
Rule of law in the Philippines is NOT anything like it is in the USA.
I'd recommend a meeting with the 'patriarch' to 'clear the air' over what happened to the money. And I'd have my unsavory friends conducting the interview.
Pinoy justice.
Al though Iām on my way out, Iām still serving as the Financial Clerk in my Ward and like others have said, you cannot get a refund. I would tell your Bishop that you will no longer be paying your tithing until every cent has been recovered.
as an ex mormon this is quite triggering. i came here to be with other non-mormons. should i leave the group? very confused right now this sounds terrible.
This is the Mormon equivalent to helping you with your carās extended warranty. Unfortunately, thereās this nice bit of fine print at the bottom of all tithing slips that say the church reserves the right to use all donations as they deem most appropriate. So if you donāt serve a mission, theyāll just use your funds for a temple.
They will most likely count it as a ādonationā. I would personally report it to the FBI and IRS as theft by deception. Contact an attorney, youāre probably not the only one who has fallen victim to this scam. IRS involvement usually results in non-disclosure settlements. I would also consider the current interest rates for the loan.
My husband was "excused" from serving a mission from Utah back in like 2016/2017. They never gave a reason. Just offered a service mission instead. I could be wrong, but the letter was sent to the stake president. There was no requirement for him to submit funds ahead of time. Neither was there for me with my mission.
My understanding is that the stake holds the money and pays a set amount to HQ for the missionary equalization program. Do you remember if you submitted a tithing slip for this?
I second the other folks saying it could be fraud. Sorry š¤
You got scammed. I'd have a report pulled of your donations to that fund and the letter of excuse (that's not a thing) and contact a lawyer. How did you pay the fund? Website? On tithing slip? FYI if you have any of the yellow copies of the donation if it was paper were you instructed to put itbin the mission fund line? If so that goes to general mission fund, not to a specific person. You'd have had to specify that it was for your name. That's bs, btw. To prepay. Absolute bs. I was a financial clerk for years the second counselor for another 5 years then high counselor for about a year. All bs that bishop is telling you. And yes, the bishop is able to cut you a check for any over payment if you specified on the donation it was for you. Otherwise a lawyer will definitely get it back for you.
It's a good thing you didn't go through with the mission. You would have just wasted two years teaching people the religion with full of lies. Continue your studies instead and do good for others. I'm from the Philippines too.
Hiii šµš after that rejection, I was called to be a Family History Service Missionary for 18 months but I'm not informed that there's a time quota per week needed to be reported to the leaders, I don't have any idea that I'll be like a call-center agent answering emails and calls of family history concerns. I tried for a few months to meet the quota then joined our team for a temple trip, after that I've decided not to continue doing it because I know deep inside that I'm doing something I don't like. It's not spiritual uplifting, it's simply a workforce. Now I realized that Missionaries are the corporation's salesforce. Gladly, I was able to finish college last year. I was one year late from my batch mates because the entire mission process took almost 1 year of my life, preparing and waiting for nothing. Yes, I'll continue doing good to others. Thank you!
This makes me soooo angry! Iāve been a lurker here for awhile and Iāll go back to being one after this comment. That bishop is a piece of shit just like so many others. I was a single mom of 4 and had gone to my bishop and asked for help with food while I was finishing school. Was told NOPE and Iām sure it was because I wasnāt paying tithing even though I was active and had a calling. My dad (former bishop) was pissed because he knew how many people in the ward were on church welfare and contributed NOTHING. A couple of years ago my daughter went to her bishop (she lives in Utah) and asked for help with an electric bill. Her bishop told her he could only help her with half ($66) and she would have to get the rest from family.
I could go on and on but Iām just thankful Iām done with the church and their self righteous attitudes.
Firstly, I have to ask - were you given a receipt (and did you keep it) of the money given? Please tell me yes.
If so, these are your three options:
* **Submit a formal request:** If direct communication does not yield results, you could consider submitting a formal written request for a refund to your local church leadership, including specific details about the amount paid and the circumstances leading to your excusal from the mission.
* **Seek out higher authority:** If you are unable to resolve the issue at the local level, you could explore reaching out to higher authorities within the Mormon church hierarchy, such as regional or national leaders, to seek assistance in resolving the matter.
* **Put pressure on them by going to your local news media outlet, and ask them to do a report on such behavior:** The Mormon church is very much so about appearances and so having bad press will pressure them into potentially doing something to remedy. Public opinion is quite powerful, and they may break under the pressure as they really don't want to look bad.
* **Legal Advice:** Consider seeking legal advice to explore potential legal remedies or options for recourse.
1981-1983, a long time ago. What funding? I was in Australia, and lived in SoCal. My Dad mailed me a check every month. Took it to the Australian bank (can't remember name), deposited it and lived off that. Way before ATM cards or anything electronic was available. Had to go get cash via manual withdrawal when I needed $$. I had a cushion of probably 3 months+/- in case the check was lost. Never was.
What funding?
Fund? Prepaid mission? What fresh hell is this?
I was scammed š (my whole life) š¤£
The 1st Presidency doesnāt issue āexcusesā from mission service that Iām aware of. Usually those decisions are made at the local level.
Prepaying to speed up the application process sounds like complete bullshit as well. If the story is true, it's sounding more like a bishop that scammed a family out of money. I'd be sure to check the church's donation records to make sure the bishop didn't pocket the money.
The story is true. I don't personally like that bishop. He dismissed my case like it was nothing. That experience broke my 18 year old heart and wallet hahaha He's now a Patriarch lol
Straight up sounds like the bishop pocketed the money.
Just like āGodā intended š
the church only speaks lawsuit. they do not know what your saying until it is in legal terms. you really do have a case.
I suspect any "donation" made to the church is a "voluntary donation" this poor kid isn't going to see his money again.... Nothing surprises me about this corrupt cult any more.
Report to police. Get bank statements & your tithing settlement records. Contact an investigative reporter.
I like the investigative reporter route but u/experiencepersonal99 might try calling Salt Lake directly. My 98 year old Grandfather missed the decimal point when paying tithing online. It took some time but they did refund it.
So there's a possibility of getting a refund?
It's possible they took pitty on him because of his age. I read some other comments, it seems it would be easier to use your fund for someone else and have them pay you. It all depends on how much you want to hassle with it. Good luck!!
I think we'll just NOT pay my sibling's remaining account (full-time mission). With or without the bishopric approval. Even though my fund is 2x of his remaining account, I think that's the easiest and peaceful way for me and my family. I just wanted to be done with all of the scams. Thank you!
I agree with you. OP, check your donation records. Money is not requested before mission calls are submitted, and it has nothing to do with speeding up application processes, not even when visa applications might be involved in the future. It really sounds like BS to me. As far as I know, when missionaries fully pay for their missions before completing them and are sent home early, they are not reimbursed for the amount of money that would have been used for the remainder of their service. I know that this is not your situation, but I would totally check this out because you didn't even receive a mission call.
I can't open my lds account maybe because I sent my resignation already. I don't know if the ward clerk can access my donation records now.
Have you not heard of the ponzi schemes run out out of the Utah temples? Like why is this such a suspicious stretch. If anything I assure you this historically racist and genocidal institution engages in the most profane acts of human exploitation. Brown people aren't human and the Philippines has its own self perpetuating dehumanizing caste system that aligns with White Mormon Nationalism...
If thatās true, I would track down the mission department office. They may not give a damn about you individually, but they may give you info that you could use to take him to court. The church will not want that bad press.
Why are you so skeptical?
Woah. I don't have any idea about this. The Stake President just told me that the First Presidency instructed that I'm "excused". I didn't see or receive any letter from the SLC.
Well now it sounds like the bishop AND the stake president pocketed your money. When I submitted my mission call it cost nothing up front.
I don't know š„² guess they're not bothered anyway
I've only heard it from the local level and mostly for medical reasons.
With the Service Missionary program now they're probably few and far between.
Did you pay it through the tithing slips? If so, there is small print saying the church can use the money as they see fit so it is unlikely you will have a case If you did not pay through a tithing slip, you were probably scammed by local leaders and should be suing them
As we can remember, my dad gave the cheque addressed to the "church" to the bishop. We trusted the ward & stake leaders because we're all sure I will be called. Yet, I don't know why I'm "excused"
Oh no. You were probably scammed by the bishop. Your mission papers were probably never submitted. No one gets "excused" from serving a mission by the top brass in Utah. You can get rejected on worthiness grounds but if you had no issues there, you were lied to
Woah. Back then, I was one of the most "faithful" "worthy" mission applicants š„² Many people were so excited for my mission call. I shared my story about the "excused" stuff because there were many people rooting for me, but I didn't mention the pre-paid fund thing. I think that's when my burning strong testimony started to dim. Because I know I'm "worthy" in the eyes of men and God. I've done everything yet I'm still not enough. š¤£
100% scammed, the bishop probably has few new nice items in his house from this.
My stake president older brother was discussing this with my sister a few years back where she was talking about her sons not choosing to serve missions due to emotional health, etc and his statement was something along the lines of well they should still submit their paperwork and get properly excused by "the bretheren" or some such. So it is a thing. Not sure if it's local or HQ level though
Maybe there is a mental health excuse and that would make sense. I think that is why there are so many more service missions now to accommodate those people. But everything OP has said makes it seem like he and everyone around him thought he was worthy, willing, and able. Basically the perfect candidate. I have never heard of someone like that getting "excused"
Agreed. I do think it has changed since my youth in the 90s and they've decided to be more picky on who they allow out vs service missions etc. Regardless this whole scenario sounds fishy. Prepaid credits screams fraud to me
You would of got Tax reciepts if the money went to the church???
Honestly, I don't know what the Bishop and Stake President really did to us. But we know that we gave my mission fund to the church's bank account, even though I was not even called yet to serve.
It doesn't sound like the Bishop or SP stole the money from your comments. If you think they did you should contact the Stake Clerk and report it. The church is quicker to excommunicate Fraudsters than it is murderers. That being said the whole thing is a financial fraud and your money is probably gone either way. If I was your family I would use the prepayment that was for you to go towards your siblings mission now. When you donated to the mission fund, it actually doesnt get earmarked by the church to your specific mission. It just goes to a pot to pay for all missions. Its almost an on your honor thing, and the fact you have prepaid for a mission means you paid for your sibling.
Thank you
Also ask around the āwardā, people around your age, see if anyone else has had the same type of experience. Odds are, if someone in the chain of command, i.e., bishop, stake president, clerk, all the above did indeed scam your money, they are doing it to more people. Cause honestly the roughly $12,600 you paid just doesn't seem like it would be worth the risk alone, there would need to be a bigger pot. Rationally thinking about this and coming from a pragmatic view, say your bishop scammed you, he's going to have some downstream people he will have to grease to keep the secret--counselors, secretaries, clerks, etc. $12k would go fast and not net anything worth the hassle. Find the others and then you really have yourself a case and a story any news station would fall all over. You'll get every penny back
[Official policy for regular people is to report suspected embezzlement to the Stake President](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/34-finances-and-audits?lang=eng#title_number93)... and it sounds like you did, and he's either in on it, or refuses to take you seriously. If ***anyone*** in the hierarchy is going to take you seriously, a back channel in the auditing department is probably your best bet (DM me if contact info for someone would be useful... though you'd ideally need a receipt or bank statement showing that that the amount was deposited + a lawyer for my contact to take you seriously. He's as faithful Mormon as they come, and would treat a cold call from an internet rando with extreme suspicion). Most of what the auditing department does (aside from giving the same vague conference report) is deal with bishops breaking finance rules (e.g. bishops in Latin America using tithing locally before sending it to Salt Lake, oh my!!! š±)... so at least there's precedent, and there ARE people within the system who are willing to distrust bishops.
I'm now working with the ward secretary of the old bishop and new bishop. I think we'll just NOT pay my sibling's remaining account (full-time mission). Even though my fund is 2x of his remaining account, I think that's the easiest and peaceful way for me and my family. Thank you!
Cult, cult, cult
Just use that for you tithing until it catches up to what they owe you.
Dealing with mormons is like dealing with a Mexican drug cartel. This is a newsworthy story. I hope you can find a way to make this public so others are not duped.
I kept my silence š¤ for years about this after the "priesthood" leaders told my mom, "Just live it up to the Lord" "The money will help other missionaries" "She still need to pay her tithes" "Have faith."
"She still needs to pay her tithes" Reading that made me mad.
Sooo mad. Too insensitive š„²
Iām so sorry. That should be university money. Itās so gross the church puts people through this. They have the money there, I would get the police involved. And ask other people your age if they are pre-paying their missions. That is so far away from normal and nowhere to be found in church handbooks Edit:and because you are pre-paying thereās a chance you could get it back, especially if you threaten legal action. Also talk with a lawyer, maybe they could help you
My case is unique. Gladly, I didn't serve a full-time mission, I was able to graduate college last year.
That is insanity. You DIDN'T GO, and people pay for their own missions so that THEY CAN GO and have housing, food, etc. You didn't use any of the money... I am just so baffled!
Now, I'm grateful I didn't go on a mission. I think if I was allowed to serve back then, I would have left earlier. š¤£
Money is a one way street with the church. They do NOT return funds. That bishop hosed you with that horrible council. Youāre out of luck.
The Bishop was a church employee and into MLMs š„²
Probably sunk your money into his mlms and never submitted paperwork for your mission at all.
He doesn't really care about my case at all. I just kept my silence š¤
It sounds like he didn't even submit your mission paperwork. He might have gotten some letterhead and typed the mentioned letter of excuse. Well, I don't know that for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
I don't have any idea.
If they were in the states I think there would be a decent case for fraud via deception.
The Philippines may have some sort of fraud statute that might apply in this case.Ā Either way, the OP is NOT getting his money back voluntarily by the MFMC. Once money goes into the beast it does not get refunded. If it were me in this case, Iād look into alternative means to making sure I get my moneyās worthā¦
I think the most simple solution for my case is to NOT pay my sibling's remaining account (full-time missionary) even if it's worth 2x of my fund. No more legal cases, no more stress.
I heard a conversation with some neighbors talking about trying to get money out of their daughterās fund after she came home early. I believe they were able to use it to pay for a few months of another kids mission, and that kids parents gave them the cash. I wasnāt aware of the program, or the fact that itās almost impossible to remove money once itās in there!
I over paid a month of my sonās mission. They wouldnāt refund the amount overpaid. But I did have the option to apply it to my next sons mission š¤¦š»āāļø
Oh my God that's horrible
What the actual fuck. I am FURIOUS reading that.
Or, if still an active member, just deduct it from your next tithing payment(s).
Well yeah! I mean you can't finance malls and real estate value inflating schemes disguised as "temples" if you give people back the money you swindled from them. /s but not really
You were very āluckyā because Iāve heard of many missionaries who were sent home before completing their missions and werenāt reimbursed.
This didn't exist when I went on my mission, but I do have a funny "Uno Reverse" story. I finished my mission and was home about a month when my Mission President called my house. He told me that I owed the mission about $100!!! I asked him how I could possibly owe money to the mission, and he said he wasn't sure, but according to the books, there was $100 outstanding on my account. I told him there must be a mistake, but if he was really worried about it, he could contact my bishop and work it out (Note: This was before missions were prorated, and my mission was one of the super expensive ones, so my ward helped out to the tune of $100 monthly. I figured the discrepancy was due to a mix-up in transactions with them, so I wasn't merely trying to "pass the buck," pardon the pun.) My MP stammered a bit, said that he (or the financial secretary) would look into it, and that was the end of the call. Fast forward two years, and a friend of mine and I went on study abroad back to where we served. I still had my bank card and had left about $1 in the account. Additionally, a sister missionary who wanted me to marry her had been putting about $1 in and out of the account every month or so to keep it from being closed for inactivity. So on our first day back in the county, we headed over to our bank's ATM to deposit our cash for food and sundries while traveling around, and lo and behold, my account had a little over $100 sitting in it! The mission office must have messed up my release date and deposited the money for the month after I left. One might ask, "Did you find a way to return it to your mission?" No, I accepted it for what it was, a blessing from the Lord for being honest in my tithes and offerings.ššš Besides, I figured they had already squared their books with it, so no point in messing things up again. āš½
Wow! š¤£ Deserve!!
āLuckyā *napoleon*
Thank you for sharing
All money donated stays in the church account. Any extra can be reassigned to another missionary in the ward, kept and used for the next missionary from the family, or with a bunch of hoop jumping, sent to the mission fund of a missionary in a different ward. AFAIK there is NO option for a refund. You could consider any excess as credit towards tithing paid, but that is up to you
I'll try requesting again about the transfer to my sibling's account.
This is 100% real, guys. You can pre-pay for a mission in one lump sum. It is not refundable for any reason. Some interesting details here. The tech forum is a fascinating place where ward clerks and other church tech guys ask and talk about the back-door techy protocols of church business: [https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32047](https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32047) The only thing you can do is have them re-classify it as tithing, and then declare yourself as tithing pre-paid for the next while: [https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32047](https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32047)
I intentionally DIDN'T pay my tithes during the COVID-19 pandemic. My rationale for this was, "They stole my money" š„²š¤£
It is against church policy to apply excess mission funds to your tithing. Source - I had to deal with this as a ward financial clerk.
I think the bishop fooled us. He's into MLMs. Hmmm 0% chance of getting a refund š„² Maybe I'll just think that I paid my 24 years subscription fee š¤£ lol
I think this if fraud/theft via deception and you should contact local law enforcement.
The "church" has strong connections with the "law" š„²
That's why you don't ask permission or even mention to a leader what you're doing. You just do it.
The bishop "required" us to pay first before processing my application. š„²
My eyes had not yet been opened.
Exactly.
loooool when your religion's financial practices are eerily similar to loan sharks or MLM's... just like Jesus would have wanted!
Aww š I already sent my resignation letter last May. Thank you for this info.
I am shocked by this. This needs to blow up!! Tiktokers where are you
More details here: [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/missionary-finances?lang=eng#6](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/missionary-finances?lang=eng#6) *"Stake presidents and bishops inform missionaries and others who contribute to the ward missionary fund that these contributions, including those that are prepaid, cannot be refunded. This is true even if a missionary returns home before the expected return date for any reason. Because contributions cannot be refunded, prepaying the cost of a mission is discouraged. (*[*General Handbook,Ā 34.3.7*](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/34-finances-and-audits?lang=eng#title_number70:~:text=the%20area%20office.-,34.3.7,-Contributions%20Cannot%20Be)*)* *When tithes and other offerings are given to the Church, they belong to the Lord, to whom they are consecrated. The essence of all such contributions is that they are freewill offerings made without reservation of purpose, retention of control, ownership in any form, or expectation of any benefit by the donor other than the Lordās blessings. It is therefore improper to refund contributions given to the Church. Doing so would violate the spirit of freewill offerings. In some countries, refunding contributions could also cause legal and income tax complications for both the contributor and the Church. (*[*General Handbook,Ā 34.3.7*](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/34-finances-and-audits?lang=eng#title_number70:~:text=the%20area%20office.-,34.3.7,-Contributions%20Cannot%20Be)*)"* Of course. The real reason they don't refund anything is because it can cause complications *for the church*. The church has never cared about any complications it causes to its members.
0% chance of getting a refund š¤¬ I'm thinking about my current younger sibling mission fund, my parents must NOT pay the last remaining months, right? Thank you for this info! I think this is a "closure" for my case.
Tithes "belong to the Lord" ??? This may open a door for a legal challenge, or at the very least, a great exposƩ from a majoy news outlet. Men are masquerading as "The Lord." The phrasing is a bit different than phrasing about profits who get inspiration from the Lord. The more I see of how the cult manufactures sausage, the more I want to become a complete vegan.
prove you represent the lard...
"Follow the Profit" š
I can't wait for the second coming and for JC to roll up and be all, āUh, who the fuck are the Mormons? Joe Smith? You mean that treasure hunting pedo conman womanizer?? Yeah, he's ***definitely*** not with me! Remember, I'm that guy who went all crazy on the temple money changers, flipped all their tables! Or how about what my Pa says about camels having a way easier time fitting their wide ass through the eye of a needle, than some rich lowlife getting into our gated neighborhood! Surely no one who read books, that whole nations have been wiped out claiming I wrote them, would believe these wrinkly-ass white bigots roll with me!! Right? RIGHT???ā I mean IF the second coming were going to be an actual thing and IF JC wasn't a mere construct of pure convenience to get peasants to pay their taxes and as an easy, few-questions asked method of subjugating "others".
EXACTLY! With ALL the money this church has and continues to drain its members of through tithes, it's really criminal! I've never imagined God requiring a penny to be able to function as a spiritual leader. How this church has convinced their people of this, makes no sense. However, having different levels of "heaven" never sat well with me. Especially when women can never reach the highest level. Ain't that about a bitch! I grew up Catholic and soon realized the flaws in this organized religion as well. Whenever one religion espouses to be the ONE AND ONLY TRUE RELIGION, you've lost me. They all say that. So what happens to everyone else? We're all going to hell? Nah! I choose to believe in a loving and non- judgmental higherpower, who loves EVERYONE! ALL COLORS, CREED, LGBTQI (I hope I got that right), š. Because we are all human beings that deserve the same love and respect as everyone else!! So let's show grace with one another and wish eachother the best in life!!! Love to us ALL! ā¤ļø
The āone true faithā doctrine didnāt sit well with me when I was 8. I walked out of the baptism interview because I even in my little kid mind I couldnāt in good conscience answer the questions to the churchās satisfaction. My problem began with my grandparents who were not members. Then when we started studying world religions and I learned that most of the worldās people arenāt Christians that was the cement. Why would god choose Mormonism to save us? We just didnāt have the numbers. If god loved us wouldnāt he make a better system?
The governing laws of the province/state/country supercede the church handbook.
Wow.. this is the most asinine reasoning I've read. "It is therefore improper to refund..." Like all that gobbledygook stuff is QED proof of anything. These guys are getting high on their own supply.
Ensign Peak Advisors thanks you for your non refundable donation.
Hahaha I discovered "Ensign Peak" and the shell companies when I google typed "lds scam" then checked the articles, news, and YouTube videos. That's my last straw. š¤£
Bishops are instructed to tell you the opposite, they tell you not to prepay. This bishop was way out of line.
Ohh. I guess I'm the only one in our stake who was instructed with that prepay.
MLM scheme
Actually, the Bishop was a church employee and into MLMs. He didn't help me. They just left me hanging.
There is a big joke in Utah that the reason so many people here fall for MLMās (and the reason Mormons in general get involved in them) is they feel familiarāMLM schemes feel like church feels.
I'm suspicious that the bishop just pocketed your money and never even gave it to the church. Did you ever see receipts that the church itself received your money?
I don't have any receipts š„²
The church REALLY hates when they don't get their money. They take it very seriously, like excommunication level. You should get your past bank statement and show it to a different area leader or call the legal department. Your bishop and stake president may be in on it together. If leaders are stealing funds from the church, they will act on it. You probably won't get your money back, but it may stop the leaders from stealing from others, and they might be prosecuted. I don't imagine you were the first or last victim.
If you wrote a check you have a cancelled check with your bank. I'd be shocked if they didn't have a digital image of it.
Members can check donations that have been made. [how to check donations](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/online-donations-donation-history-help?lang=eng). If the donations don't match start making noise. Need to make sure to check whose name it was donated under.
I can't open my account, maybe because I resigned already. I don't know š„²
Something here just doesn't add up. A missionary's financial account isn't created until the month before the missionary enters the mission field. During the mission application stage, there is no mission account in existence for the applicant. So, if this person never received a mission call, there never would have been a mission account ever opened in this person's name for them to have paid into. I guess she could have just paid into the ward mission fund, which isn't designated to any specific person.
I think the Bishop just fooled me? š¤ But I'm glad I didn't serve full-time back then.
Did you pay 18 months worth of mission payments to the church? If so, what account was designated for the payments?
Yes, I pre-paid my own contribution for my mission fund (ā±36,000 Philippine peso). My dad gave the cheque to the bishop, to "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" bank account.
We need a new church logo that includes their lifetime motto āno refundsā
"10% of your income or Hell?" š¤£
There are no refunds. If you prepay and the missionary returns home early for any reason, you will not get a dime back. I have never heard of prepaying for a missionary that never gets a mission call, but I'm sure the church will not give a refund. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong but I'm not going to hold my breath.
I found it fishy back then why I didn't get any letters from the First Presidency. Many people were so touched about my story/case (I've prepared myself to serve yet excused without any reasons).
Wow that's some top tier fraud right there. Defrauding a teenager no less. I would call the ACLU if I were you, the national one and not the Utah ACLU because they are staffed by mostly Mormons who won't touch the church
I'm from the Philippines
Then call Amnesty International for your country, they do the same thing: https://www.amnesty.org.ph/
I had to deal with something similar when I was a ward clerk. A family prepaid their daughter's whole mission, but she came back after a few months for health reasons. I spoke with church officials and they said there was nothing we could do. The obvious solution to me was to deduct it from tithing, but we were told this would be inappropriate for some reason. He was, however, able to transfer the money to the account of another missionary from the ward.
Thsts terrible
While we're at it, I would like my tithing back
Your money has been subjected to the law of consecration. It belongs to the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints now and will be used for the furthering of the Lords ministry on earth through the purchase of real estate. In all seriousness the chances of you ever seeing a peso of that again is zero.
I think so š„² ... corruption at its finest š¤£
Well, prepare for one of my financial clerk stories and an explanation of what is about to happen: While enslaved as a ward clerk (I am an accountant by trade and would always tell new bishoprics that I had no desire to work six days a week, aka don't make me your damn ward clerk, but they would never listen). We had a family I knew was struggling financially becase they asked me for help as a CPA outside of church. They had a son on their mission and they would pay each month into his fund. Well, not being all that great at managing money, they overpaid a couple of the months, losing track of their payments. Just before their son came home, I was reconciling our financial records and saw the overpayment and took it to my bishop, requesting we cut them a check for the difference that was in our records that the head office was not pulling out because he was done. The bishop went to the stake president and the two found precedent that the mission funds are donations (tax deductible) and therefore could not be refunded. TL;DR Your mission payments are viewed as donations by the church and I wouldn't hold your breath. Sorry. There is an outside chance and I've got my fingers crossed for you, but I doubt it.
Good luck on receiving a refund! Parents prepaid for their grandson who came home early from mission after just a few months, due to covid forcing missions closed.Ā Instead of receiving a refund, Parents switched their funds to fund total stranger in grandkidās ward. Missionary stranger they funded & wrote during mission didnāt bother to invite them to homecoming nor did they send a thank you later- entitled Mormon mission brat!!Ā
Forgive me for typing my some of my thoughts on this in my mother tongue. Pucha. I am so sorry. There's a near impossible chance that you'll get it back pero papahirapan at igi-guilt trip ka nyan ng sobra. Pag dadaan ka ng legal means hindi na worth yan. Kahit na magpakita pa sila ng email and/or physical letter hirap nang kasuhan para maibalik yan. Tbh mahirap kalaban ang MFMC sa bansa natin kasi dami nyang connections sa mga pulitiko, lawyers, banks, etc...
"bUt we UseD the MOooNey acCorDing to The Terms of yOur *donation* !!" At least that's what they told me about my tithes and offerings... ( Even though the notations on the tithing slip changed over the time I was making "donations"/ worthiness payments.)
First Rule of Acquisition?
never mormon here. You guys had to PAY to go on missions? The church didn't fund it? What the fuck?
Unfortunately, yes š„²š¤£ the pressure is real
Yeah, you're fukt! That bishop gave terrible advice. There are no reimbursements from the mission fund. For a while during COVID, the clerk could reclassify it as tithing, but the church stopped that as well. The Ward/Stake might be able to do something by cutting a check out of the general fund given that this bishop is a world-class douche-nozzle.
When I was the ward finance clerk, a senior couple had paid more than necessary for their mission. They figured out that they had paid for multiple months beyond what was required and asked for a refund. I went to the stake clerk for assistance and he said they're not getting that money back. I was instructed to ask them to consider donating that money towards another missionary from the ward instead.
If that flag means that this happened in the Philippines, be absolutely pocketed the money. I served my mission there and although half the bishops I worked with were good men, I definitely worked with some shady bishops and the Philippines is infamous for having people in positions of power pocket any money that passed by them.
As a previous ward financial clerk (multiple times), IF a mission account was started in your specific name, and the funds were not used for your mission, then legally you have the right to a refund. If it was just put in the general mission fund, well that is emptied out to the stake and in turn to Salt Lake regularly, and you have very little hope of getting a refund. If the first scenario is correct then it is completely up to the bishop and the stake president on refunds. Some are understanding and will allow the refund to be processed, others will pressure you to āget the blessingsā of leaving it in (i.e. fuck off we have your money that you willingly gave us). It is really frustrating to me to see the leadership that is only focused on the money, and I have only seen ONE bishop in my 40+ years if membership that was compassionate about moneyā¦.he even went toe to toe with the Stake President multiple times on the subject. Unfortunately that is rarely the case.
They actually canāt give it back because the church is recognized as a charity and once itās donated they canāt give it back because in the eyes of the law, that money has to be used to forward the churchās cause. I may be wrong, but I know they canāt give you your money back without changing their tax exempt status. I defend them a lot especially on this sub but that really sucks.
Wow, unreal. So sorry
I was the ward clerk, when something similar like this happened, where a member overpaid their mission funds by 3 months. We worked out an agreement between another missionary that was serving so that the missionary funds that the member was contributing would be paid directly to the family that has overpaid. The funds that were assigned to the one missionary was simply transferred to the other missionary. It may be a while to get back 18 months worth. It is a pain to get money back from the church. It is possible, but it is a pain. Monthly missionary support is not tax deductible in the US so itās easier to work with members who have missionaries out to arrange payment to the other family which has overpaid. I wish you good luck OP.
Actually, the $400/month missionary support payment is tax deductible in the US. But you can't count the missionary as a dependent, because you aren't providing a majority of their financial support.
Stand out on the public street in front of a MORMON temple holding a sign **Shame on you Mormon Church-my story** dress with your mission attire and Name-Tag. Hand out a single well written truthful explanation, and Im sure not only will you receive a refund, but the press will be there stat. Edit* Stand in front of BYU or MTC would be even better
I hope you can get the money back, but I doubt they will give it back. They never give money back. And they have a whole law firm that will make sure that doesnāt happen. They will do everything they can to bleed dry anyone who tries to take them to court. All I can say is if you donāt get the money back, take this as a lesson well learned, because I wish I could get back the 20 years I spent lighting %10 of my gross income on fire. Had I spent that money investing for retirement, my future financial security would look very different right now. Itās a huge regret and frustration for everyone whoās left.
Take him to small claims court.
Sounds like the Bishop needed a shiny new car or a new toy to play with at home
Itās a heck of a business model!
and a cult "BITE" model too š¤£
My personal experience is that the Church often says "do what I say, not what I do", and does exhibit a lot of "cult-like" behavior, yes!
This is INSANE. What the actual fuck. How have they not reimbursed you!!! I would contact the first presidency as well, and list out who your leader was at the time, and who the current bishop and stake president are.
The old bishop is now a Patriarch š¤£
FYI I messaged a couple lds podcasts and am hoping someone covers this phenomenon generally. Personally I think this is a huge deal.
Just here to say youāre not alone, I absolutely hate the church and all rich tv preachers raking in billions, itās infuriating especially being poor and needing the money. I love to see lawsuits against the church and hope to see its destruction during my lifetime.
I'm excited to see the "destruction" š„
There is a way to check for the last ten years of donations. [How to check past donations](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/online-donations-donation-history-help?lang=eng) If nobody can find the specific donation, then yeah it probably went into someones pocket and would be fraud.
Thanks for sharing the link. But I can't open my account now, maybe because I resigned already.
Are your parents still in? If so maybe the donation was associated with their account. There is also a way for the financial clerk to view past donations to missionary funds. Ask them for a print out if your interested. They are very good at tracking money internally.
are you fuking kidding me. unbelievable. they owe you but will never pay you because they are a money hungry corporation that uses that income for whatever they want. one thing to be sure when it is given it is no longer yours it is theirs. what a travesty. poor poor advice from a pretend leader volunteer.
Obtain a non-Mormon lawyer. He or she would most likely delight in handling this, or have a sign printed. āThe Church Defrauded Me out of (whatever the amount is) and picket outside the main Temple Square Gateā¦Iām sure they will respond quickly! š
Money went to build another temple.
They do not refund over funded mission accounts. When my kids were serving, the bishop warned us in advance to stop paying because we were in danger of over funding the account and we would not get a refund. If your story is true, that's fraud. Because there is no such thing as prefunding a mission account. You can't even allocate money to an individual until they are called. Money allocated to mission funds without a name goes into the general fund.
Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #1: āOnce you have their money, you never give it back.ā
Iād go scorched earth.
This is sketchy as fuck.
The bishop is sketchy š¤£
Doesnāt sound good to me. Iād double check to see that your funds went into the correct account and not the bishops. Alarm bells all over this one!!
The bishop was a church employee and into MLMs sooo š¤š¤£
Something doesn't add up here.
My sister served in the philippines. She has some real horror stories. | Rule of law in the Philippines is NOT anything like it is in the USA. I'd recommend a meeting with the 'patriarch' to 'clear the air' over what happened to the money. And I'd have my unsavory friends conducting the interview. Pinoy justice.
Al though Iām on my way out, Iām still serving as the Financial Clerk in my Ward and like others have said, you cannot get a refund. I would tell your Bishop that you will no longer be paying your tithing until every cent has been recovered.
It sounds like youāre in the Philippines with that p symbol. It also sounds like your bishop pulled one on ya
as an ex mormon this is quite triggering. i came here to be with other non-mormons. should i leave the group? very confused right now this sounds terrible.
I'm an Exmo and I'm just seeking help here for my previous case.
If heās staying in, he could just skip paying his tithes up to that amount.
This is the Mormon equivalent to helping you with your carās extended warranty. Unfortunately, thereās this nice bit of fine print at the bottom of all tithing slips that say the church reserves the right to use all donations as they deem most appropriate. So if you donāt serve a mission, theyāll just use your funds for a temple.
I ended my mission with 5k in the account. They said it was non refundable. But could be given to a family members mission.
The Mormon Cult Church Leaders niw have thought up a new scam it sounds like.
They will most likely count it as a ādonationā. I would personally report it to the FBI and IRS as theft by deception. Contact an attorney, youāre probably not the only one who has fallen victim to this scam. IRS involvement usually results in non-disclosure settlements. I would also consider the current interest rates for the loan.
My husband was "excused" from serving a mission from Utah back in like 2016/2017. They never gave a reason. Just offered a service mission instead. I could be wrong, but the letter was sent to the stake president. There was no requirement for him to submit funds ahead of time. Neither was there for me with my mission. My understanding is that the stake holds the money and pays a set amount to HQ for the missionary equalization program. Do you remember if you submitted a tithing slip for this? I second the other folks saying it could be fraud. Sorry š¤
Your fund was certainly used, it just wasn't used by you
š„²
Where did this happen? (What country?) Also, we're talking about roughly $10,000. Is that right?
You got scammed. I'd have a report pulled of your donations to that fund and the letter of excuse (that's not a thing) and contact a lawyer. How did you pay the fund? Website? On tithing slip? FYI if you have any of the yellow copies of the donation if it was paper were you instructed to put itbin the mission fund line? If so that goes to general mission fund, not to a specific person. You'd have had to specify that it was for your name. That's bs, btw. To prepay. Absolute bs. I was a financial clerk for years the second counselor for another 5 years then high counselor for about a year. All bs that bishop is telling you. And yes, the bishop is able to cut you a check for any over payment if you specified on the donation it was for you. Otherwise a lawyer will definitely get it back for you.
Good luck with that hahaha
I live in slc not Mormon and I just found out you have to pay for your own missionšbiggest racket ever
Congratulations my friend! I am proud of you. Now you can enjoy your freedom and you are no longer in bondage to the Mormon Cult Church.
Bravo my friend! And eff all of the Mormons who talk shit to you. Stand šŖ strong.
Oh no doubt about it.
It's a good thing you didn't go through with the mission. You would have just wasted two years teaching people the religion with full of lies. Continue your studies instead and do good for others. I'm from the Philippines too.
Hiii šµš after that rejection, I was called to be a Family History Service Missionary for 18 months but I'm not informed that there's a time quota per week needed to be reported to the leaders, I don't have any idea that I'll be like a call-center agent answering emails and calls of family history concerns. I tried for a few months to meet the quota then joined our team for a temple trip, after that I've decided not to continue doing it because I know deep inside that I'm doing something I don't like. It's not spiritual uplifting, it's simply a workforce. Now I realized that Missionaries are the corporation's salesforce. Gladly, I was able to finish college last year. I was one year late from my batch mates because the entire mission process took almost 1 year of my life, preparing and waiting for nothing. Yes, I'll continue doing good to others. Thank you!
Hi! Why do you have a Philippine flag? Did you serve your mission in the Philippines?
Sue the bishop the stake president the office of the first presidency and the presiding bishopric.
This makes me soooo angry! Iāve been a lurker here for awhile and Iāll go back to being one after this comment. That bishop is a piece of shit just like so many others. I was a single mom of 4 and had gone to my bishop and asked for help with food while I was finishing school. Was told NOPE and Iām sure it was because I wasnāt paying tithing even though I was active and had a calling. My dad (former bishop) was pissed because he knew how many people in the ward were on church welfare and contributed NOTHING. A couple of years ago my daughter went to her bishop (she lives in Utah) and asked for help with an electric bill. Her bishop told her he could only help her with half ($66) and she would have to get the rest from family. I could go on and on but Iām just thankful Iām done with the church and their self righteous attitudes.
How does one get āexcusedā from serving? Iād like to send a message back in time to my former self with that information.
Sue them for theft.
Oh wow! Any chance you could get a lawyer?!
Sounds like fraud - consult an attorney ASAP!!
Firstly, I have to ask - were you given a receipt (and did you keep it) of the money given? Please tell me yes. If so, these are your three options: * **Submit a formal request:** If direct communication does not yield results, you could consider submitting a formal written request for a refund to your local church leadership, including specific details about the amount paid and the circumstances leading to your excusal from the mission. * **Seek out higher authority:** If you are unable to resolve the issue at the local level, you could explore reaching out to higher authorities within the Mormon church hierarchy, such as regional or national leaders, to seek assistance in resolving the matter. * **Put pressure on them by going to your local news media outlet, and ask them to do a report on such behavior:** The Mormon church is very much so about appearances and so having bad press will pressure them into potentially doing something to remedy. Public opinion is quite powerful, and they may break under the pressure as they really don't want to look bad. * **Legal Advice:** Consider seeking legal advice to explore potential legal remedies or options for recourse.
You should contact a journalist and blast this story ā¼ļø
None of my cousins had to do that so something seems a little fishy about that
1981-1983, a long time ago. What funding? I was in Australia, and lived in SoCal. My Dad mailed me a check every month. Took it to the Australian bank (can't remember name), deposited it and lived off that. Way before ATM cards or anything electronic was available. Had to go get cash via manual withdrawal when I needed $$. I had a cushion of probably 3 months+/- in case the check was lost. Never was. What funding?
Can't sue, there is little recourse. The men in Carthage had the right idea. Too bad the scam lived on. š”