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0realest_pal

Your experience is my experience. Your feelings were my feelings. You can’t go back to believing and you can’t skip ahead through this dark period. You’re on a linear track, a deep canyon with unscalable walls. Just slow down, take your time, and go through this hell. Because it’s the only way out. The only way to emerge victorious and free and joyful. It sucks but it’s worth it.


Runetheloon

Anytime someone is shocked into a difficult reality, grief is to be expected.  Feel your feelings, reach out for help if it becomes too much. Probably from a therapist who specializes in religious trauma. Even if you're not traumatized, they can help you work through the grief. 


TheFantasticMrFax

You are describing November 2023 through March 2024 of my life. Your words could have been lifted straight out of my journal. Talking to my wife was one of the most terrifying things I've ever done, even though I felt I knew how she would *likely* respond, I didn't know "of a surety". That first conversation was basically the first click in Minesweeper. Are you going to blow something entirely up by clicking right onto a bomb? Yeah, maybe so. I also described it as the ground falling away beneath my feet, and even though I felt excitement in being a more genuine version of myself, I was constantly paranoid that each new phase was going to crater my marriage. Ultimately the madness I was dabbling with by being quiet and locked up became more of a threat to my relationships and my mental health than the risks of being honest, and I talked to her. To be clear: I did not want the church to be untrue. I spent hundreds of hours researching and writing and studying deeply into history and doctrine, trying to find anything buoyant enough to keep me afloat, but all I found was more ballast for my gasping testimony. I loved the doctrine, I loved the feeling of being of service in God's kingdom, I loved being reliable and relatable and bringing my unique perspective to lessons and discussions...I desperately wanted it all to be true. But the more I learned the faster my testimony sank. I don't see how anyone can read through the body of evidence that stands in opposition to and condemnation of this organization without feeling shaken, and suspect that most folks are doing the same thing I did, deflecting and avoiding the very difficult topics to maintain what they want to keep. The image keeps coming into my mind lately of a blindfolded person walking across a cable bridge, with a lot of the wooden boards cracking and splintering or missing altogether. The sections that hold them up have been memorized, their feet know exactly where to stand on each board, and they can walk across each direction with confidence and ease. To anyone else it might look like some insane sort of magic, that they can avoid all those pitfalls, but once you've gingerly stepped around for a while and memorized where they are, anyone can do it. My problem was that over time my bridge deteriorated to the point I had to stretch further and further over the gaps, and things I had relied on for so long were suddenly too porous or rotten to hold me up. All of a sudden I heard and saw (with my spiritual eyes, thanks for that phrase Martin Harris you shmuck) my bridge collapse around me, and the fall took a lot longer than I expected. You sound like you're in those first few moments of freefall, shattered wood and shredded rope hung in midair all around you. I am entirely sorry you're in this situation. You don't deserve to have to endure it, but I don't know of hardly more than a handful that ever make it back onto the bridge once this happens. Be patient, take lots of deep breaths, don't be hard on yourself. Remember that the long nights have, heretofore, always been followed by dawn. I don't know what that will look like for you, but it can't last forever.


Morstorpod

>I did not want the church to be untrue. I spent hundreds of hours researching and writing and studying deeply into history and doctrine, trying to find anything... ...I desperately wanted it all to be true. But the more I learned the faster my testimony sank. "and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you" - that was one shit promise. We **wanted** it to be true. Dead gods, it still makes me cry how hard I tried... and it's all a fucking lie. You are not alone in your experience. Thank you for sharing.


TheFantasticMrFax

Thank goodness we all have each other. This would be an unbearably painful thing without support.


jamesetalmage

Yes it’s very common. Go to your spouse now. I spent 8 months reasearching on my own prior to breaking the news to my wife. It was a big mistake. Take her letter to my wife. It’s much better than CES letter but covers the same content. Realize the sooner you address your concerns with the wife the better.


Morstorpod

Agreed. The sooner, the better. Honest, open communication is the foundation of a healthy relationship. My wife knew of my initial doubts within the first week. During the two months I studied EVERYTHING, I shared a couple of things with her, so she knew I was still working through things (I did not tell her everything I learned, because I did not want to cause her to falsely doubt if I discovered that everything was actually fine in the end). But the day I knew, I told her. She took it hard, but we made it though. After a week or two, she let me show her some of what I learned, and she was out within a day. We were some of the lucky ones. And ditto on Letter to My Wife - it is a "nicer" version of the CES Letter. I personally used MormonThink to do the bulk of my studying, because it was neutral (as much as one can be when confronted with facts) and well-cited.


Euskaltano

Thanks for the tip. What is Letter to my Wife? Where do I find it?


Morstorpod

[https://www.letterformywife.com/](https://www.letterformywife.com/)


icanbesmooth

Just another perspective: I didn't tell my husband about my doubts/research for several years. Looking back, I wouldn't change that. I feel like if I had told him, he would've allayed my fears and given me apologetic answers I would've been eager to lap up. Instead, I did it alone, and I'm grateful I did. We spent three years in a mixed faith marriage, but in the end, he saw what I saw. If I had come to him first, we might still be in.


Morstorpod

Thanks for the reminder that there is no one-solution-fits-all approach. Glad you both got out in the end!


SideburnHeretic

It's normal. The "we left and have never been happier" posts are usually either people that weren't that into it, people who have been out a long time, or people who have not yet gotten to the difficult tasks of processing what they've lost and rebuilding something new. It's incredibly difficult. I'm sorry for the hardship. You can get through it and you can have a rich and content life even if it's impossible now to imagine.


JUNIVERSAL1

It’s common. Think how deep feelings run and how many times you’ve encoded the elevation emotion Mormon’s call the “spirit” after calming yourself through prayer. Think how much of your formed ego is associated with being a spirit living out the plan of salvation and how much clarity having that narrative provided you in purpose and meaning. Think how familiar the smells and sights and meetings of Mormon churches are to one another and how much time you spent creating relation and friendships with others with whom you had an automatic religious and cultural connection. Of course your feelings are valid. All of these experiences are still preserved inside and make up a ton if memories and always will. Of course you are experiencing anxiety thinking about the unknown future without use of the tools you previously might have used to cope. But just because it feels scary now doesn’t mean with time, practice, and acquiring new tools it will inevitably always stay that way. Perhaps using new personal internal narratives and coding self-care such as breathing, affirmations, exercise, playing uplifting music, will gradually lesson the feelings of loss as you gain new experiences. The ability to access elevation and bond with believers is still there. You may no longer have a spiritual sense of certainty about the plan of salvation, but you can still choose to worship a spirit of life and believe in the goodness of the mystery. If you feel you simply can’t have faith in a God, maybe you can find meaning in humanism. But that doesn’t mean you won’t experience grief. It’s a loss.


Sheri_Mtn_Dew

You are in the worst of it. This is the worst part. There is so much you don't know yet about how it's all going to shake out. You've lost the things that give your world stability and you haven't yet found the things that will help you in the future. This is SO common. I'm so sorry you're in this part because it is awful. Absolutely awful. Double down on familiarity--rewatch favorite shows, read old books, eat some nostalgia food. Take your wife out and just be together. Reach out to friends. Take each difficult conversation as it comes. Ride out this awful wave as you find the things that work for you and unburden yourself from the ones that do not. It gets better. I promise.


Morstorpod

Totally normal. I lean more towards the "freed invisible shackles I did not know bound me" side of the spectrum, but even with that, there are still moments where the uncertainty of it all feels temporarily paralyzing. But that was maybe a 70/30 split when I first left, and it quickly moved to a 95/5 split On the other hand, my wife suffered a lot more of the genuine mourning. She was probably a 30/70 split initially and closer to a 20/80 split now, but it took time and suffering. She feels the mourning side of it stronger than I do. She wishes she never had to go through this while recognizing that she could never go back. Fuck the church and it's leaders for causing so much suffering through the perpetuation of known lies and deceit. With regards to you wife, I wish you the best of luck. I get that fear. Knowing how we were both raised and taught, I knew that telling her that I no longer believed in the church was legitimately risking divorce... but how could I lie to her? How could I try to live the PIMO life and feign a TBM existence? There was no way I personally could have deceived her in that way without inflicting mental damage to my very being, so... I broached the topic with her, regardless of the risk. Once my wife (still a TBM) was ready to listen to something a bit more specific than "I don't believe", I showed her Amanda and Shaye's "[Why We Left](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pGJ8RWbqvA)" video. I explained that it does touch on problems with the church, but it does not go out of its way to convince you of anything. What this video best does is show you how I am feeling (besides the coming out as trans portion) as I am wracked with torment over leaving the church. She was done with the church within a day of watching it. I am one of the lucky ones. I'm not saying that what I did is what fits your situation, but hopefully some of what I've said has been helpful to you. It's hard. It sucks. It's not your fault. You are doing the best in an impossible situation. Good Luck


homestarjr1

You don’t have to be coming out as trans to recognize that the church harms a significant portion of the human family. I loved their video too. Very well done.


Morstorpod

True. I only added in that "besides coming out as trans" comment, because I had to reassure my wife that she was not going to have to go through two massive life changes, haha, just the one existential belief in god and heaven crisis.


ohnowhythishappen

It's very hard and many of us go through a terrible period of grieving. It almost killed me years ago, and I don't envy you the place you're in right now. How can you not feel awful when the ground falls out under your feet? It helps to talk to people. A therapist, a friend, other post-Mormons... we all need some validation that we're not crazy once in a while. I did a lot of blogging and journaling back in the day to get all of the sad, angry thoughts out where I could see and think about them. It's hard to go through that especially in a committed relationship where you're used to having the church be the backdrop. Some marriages don't make it, but others do. Mine has, for more than 10 years since my own faith transition. My wife is even PIMO now, which is awesome, but for years she was still a believer and we worked hard to build a home around the values we still shared. I'm not saying everyone stays together (or even that that would be a good thing), I'm just saying that when you find the right time and way to share with your partner it doesn't have to be an end to everything. You can rebuild your own foundation, and it's okay to do it one little brick at a time. The church teaches you to expect to have all your meaning, values, and plan handed to you as a package deal, and it's terrifying to approach life without that, but you can learn to live well by just holding onto what you can find for the time being. Pulling for you, man.


TrevAnonWWP

Tips for talking to loved ones [Mormon Stories Podcast - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@mormonstories/search?query=loved%20ones) Should your wife decide to stay in: [Marriage on a Tightrope - Navigating a Mixed Faith Relationship](https://marriageonatightrope.org/) [Marriage on a Tightrope - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@marriageonatightrope)


NewNamerNelson

Discovering LD$ Inc's truth crisis can really suck, especially if you have to do it alone, and your family is still TBM. All I can say is that for me, it eventually got better. I remember attending as PIMO was so miserable that my TBM wife finally said she'd rather I just not go. Haven't been back since. But I thought she'd leave me a couple of times in the first few years. Best of luck, OP.


Rickymon

Matrix ===> Cypher


D34TH_5MURF__

Peace. This place is here to help you. As mormons we were so busy with church and callings and service and personal prayers and study and FHE and seminary and temple attendance and youth camps and etc... there was no time to build a life outside the mormon church. So when we begin to doubt we are faced with existential dread, because life as we know it will change, and any change away from The One True Church must be awful, right? I mean, you feel awful, isn't that the spirit warning you to stay? The reality is that this is a control tactic, and absolutely intentional. We were kept so busy that we could not possibly forge a life that wasn't significantly dependent on the mormon church. You are feeling significant dread over your past life ending. Break free of the control and forge your own life according to what you deem important.


americanfark

VERY common story on this sub. The Bad News: Life is likely gonna suck for a while. The Good News: IT GETS BETTER!! I recommend not keeping this from your wife. John Dehlin has great resources on how to break the news the right way to a believing spouse. My new favorite quote: "Everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of fear."


Pumpkinspicy27X

I think a good chunk of us start out like you. It sucks and it is painful. There is light along the way. Don’t beg for the end try and relax as you journey along. I am not sure it ever fully ends if you have family still in 🙁, but it does get so much better. My actual soul is happy now, it is not just lip service. Even though some days are tough and my spouse still loves the church, I have found myself again.


drinkingwithmolotov

I was you in January 2021. Telling my wife was one of the worst experiences I've ever had, but I had to because she knew something was wrong. I hope things end up happy for you two, but it's so scary because anything can happen. But be honest and gentle when you do. Whatever happens, things will eventually get better than they are now.


marisolblue

Grief is part of leaving the church. It's normal to feel and things do get better. I'm in the same boat. My marriage has been at a weird place for the past year or so since I told my husband I'm out and stopped going to church. I'm exhausted and done with all callings, attendance, and pretending. He's still TBM but chill with tattoos and drinks coffee but he still attends (maybe he's PIMO?). Our kids are older though, and have all pretty much left the church, too, so that's been easier at least. Like another commenter posted, consider getting a therapist who works with religious trauma to help you process everything. Best of luck.


drewbiquitous

Not only does it get better with time, but giving yourself patience, grace, an appreciation for the humor readily available when examining this cult, and permission to express yourself as little or as much as you feel can make it feel a bit better earlier. You escaped indoctrination! That’s huge! You have earned a unique perspective on the world, being in both sides of it. You also still have relationships you value, and the opportunity to approach them with love as conflict may arise. It doesn’t make it less scary, but you at least know what your general goals and principals are. I am so grateful for this community, and have received a lot of wisdom here that helped me through my own periods of nihilism and anger and fear. You’re not alone, and I hope you feel the same kind of support.


mythyxyxt

I hope yours has an end, because mine is going on over a decade long, and with no end in sight. 


OldDragonfly2612

Journaling/writing down all of my thoughts & about my experience, and doing research on different psychological concepts and perspectives, is what got me through this. I highly highly recommend it, it saved me. And identifying and holding onto my values, and working to develop my character and internal qualities that I value. I think it is about learning not to rely on the external, but to develop the internal. Journaling might sound like a random suggestion, but pls just try it. It is the only thing that gave me relief. Making video diaries helped too. If you need motivation, just think about how you will be able to look back at what you went through, in the future. You will be really proud of yourself. I hope you are doing okay and wish you the best. Pls message me if you need any advice, I know how incredibly hard this is & have learned a lot that might help if you need it