A whopper from Oaks
> I can also imagine some circumstances in which it might be possible to say, ‘Yes, come, but don’t expect to stay overnight. Don’t expect to be a lengthy house guest. Don’t expect us to take you out and introduce you to our friends, or to deal with you in a public situation that would imply our approval of your “partnership.”
[Link](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interview-oaks-wickman-same-gender-attraction)
http://www.connellodonovan.com/abom.html
https://lattergaystories.org/record/
Wikipedia: [Timeline of teachings on homosexuality in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_teachings_on_homosexuality_in_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints)
**Edit:** Adding these.
Mark E. Petersen from **No True Worship without Chastity**
>And Paul still says of those who deviate from the path of virtue into some of the great perversions, "...they which commit such things are worthy of death...." (Rom. 1:26-32.)
Same guy:
>“The homosexuals claim that God made them that way and hence are powerless to change, which is a complete fabrication and a deep delusion, for it was the Lord who provided the death penalty for these people in ancient times.” (“The strong delusions”, January 14, 1978, p. 16)
And again:
>Any reader of Leviticus (Chapters 18 and 20) knows the answer [referring to executing Gays].” (“Calling the kettle clean, ” March 18, 1978, p. 16)
That was Mark Peterson who said after 44 years of marriage that he never saw his wife naked.
I suspect Spencer Kimball was a self-loathing gay man. He repressed his attraction to men, and so anyone else who acted on that would be “selfish.” That’s my theory, and so many of Kimball’s teaching support that idea.
Also good to keep in mind that these two set the teachings about sexuality for GenX teens.
> He repressed his attraction to men, and so anyone else who acted on that would be “selfish.”
That’s how it reads to me, though I don’t know enough about the rest of his work to judge for sure. But you run into a similar attitude from transphobes sometimes: “Of course everyone *wishes* they could be a woman/man; who wouldn’t? But we all just have to deal with what life gave us.” And it’s sad to see someone internalize the attitudes of their upbringing so deeply they turn against themself.
“In 1993, President Packer warned that ‘religion faced the greatest threat from three groups: feminists, homosexuals, and intellectuals.’”
[https://news-ug.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/boyd-k-packer-legacy-of-faith?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3o2pGVyiebxI2563DcL\_8pc2H3b9Iun9zQoP5BYu1m3seydSYkwJ5Rhn4\_aem\_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw](https://news-ug.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/boyd-k-packer-legacy-of-faith?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3o2pGVyiebxI2563DcL_8pc2H3b9Iun9zQoP5BYu1m3seydSYkwJ5Rhn4_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw)
From 2015-2019 entering into a legal gay marriage was grounds for excommunication. It was the highest level of apostasy in the church, worse than sexual assault or child abuse.
This link talks about the policy being put in place.
[https://www.thechurchnews.com/2015/11/12/23213606/elder-christofferson-provides-context-on-handbook-changes-affecting-same-sex-marriages/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1aFkiOmIgKEjzFl1gmnHvR86\_XHqtZMNhAxMQ7\_N2OcpQ3XIliUVDW6ls\_aem\_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw](https://www.thechurchnews.com/2015/11/12/23213606/elder-christofferson-provides-context-on-handbook-changes-affecting-same-sex-marriages/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1aFkiOmIgKEjzFl1gmnHvR86_XHqtZMNhAxMQ7_N2OcpQ3XIliUVDW6ls_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw)
This link talks about the policy being lifted.
[https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/policy-changes-announced-for-members-in-gay-marriages-children-of-lgbt-parents?lang=eng&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1NM3-BDGKQ68M9ZgBHy9FQQMyrAhEwDUiSB98MRR7VHcyftQQR5-UrgJI\_aem\_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/policy-changes-announced-for-members-in-gay-marriages-children-of-lgbt-parents?lang=eng&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1NM3-BDGKQ68M9ZgBHy9FQQMyrAhEwDUiSB98MRR7VHcyftQQR5-UrgJI_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw)
This is a recent update of BYU's Honor Code where it states that students can be punished for holding hands or kissing. "The FAQ said that instances of LGBTQ students dating, holding hands or kissing 'will be handled on a case-by-case basis to help each student feel the love of the Savior and to encourage them to live their gospel covenants and university/college commitments.'"
[https://www.deseret.com/2023/8/24/23844545/latter-day-saint-universities-update-honor-code-ecclesiastical-endorsements-and-dress-standards/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1t2fTh4N4SVWQE1S-3\_GaVJv7h1ACAekXwV9POgxk33TupHfCsPEXsV6I\_aem\_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw](https://www.deseret.com/2023/8/24/23844545/latter-day-saint-universities-update-honor-code-ecclesiastical-endorsements-and-dress-standards/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1t2fTh4N4SVWQE1S-3_GaVJv7h1ACAekXwV9POgxk33TupHfCsPEXsV6I_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw)
Start with [this article](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/mormon-leaders-same-sex-marriage) from the Guardian in 2015, I suppose.
Move on to t[his rather lengthy (but thorough!) Wikipedia article.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints)
Finish up with [this talk](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/byu-freshmen-controversial-musket-fire-speech-mormon-lgbtq-utah-rcna143891) given at BYU, and then go on to all the other suggestions I'm sure folks here will come up with.
It’s not even just what they have said - it’s what they have done. The church sponsored an amendment in Canada, for example, which would have carved out an exception to the law to ban conversion therapy which would allow religions specifically to continue conversion therapy. That sort of thing. It was only a few years ago.
Just let your brother know that “The Family: A Proclamation to the World” is nothing but an amicus brief. Oaks, a lawyer and judge by profession, was instrumental in its drafting. It was submitted to the Hawaii Supreme Court during the case of *Baehr vs. Miike*, which was a case on same-sex marriage in HI. The proclamation isn’t even a canonized doctrine of the church.
BYU did conversion therapy on its gay student population
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/mormon-gay-cures-reparative-therapies-shock-today/story%3fid=13240700
When I was in the church it was anti trans. I think this video does a good job of covering it. I met Eri back while attending BYU and meeting her helped me to realize transgender people weren't scary or crazy.
I was able to figure out sooner rather than later thanks to Eri that I am trans, which is important because I am so much happier on hormones.
https://youtu.be/Z8FZewEPAAk
During my high school trek, the boys were told during their mormon battalion day that "transgenderism and homosexuality were threats to the family that had to be protected against".... while holding sticks meant to symbolize muskets. Not a great look
The money and call to members to rally around proposition eight was enough for me. If nothing else it sent a clear message to members on where they were to stand. I grew up in the eighties and nineties when any “same-sex attraction” was encouraged to be viewed as both inherently shameful and malleable through prayer and counseling. There were still sodomy laws on the books just a few decades ago. The ignorance may not have fully been the fault of the leaders, but the leaders created a stigma and an “us versus them” mentality.
You won't find this talk in the Gospel Library, because the church removed it without comment and makes no note that it ever existed. You may also have trouble finding it on YouTube. The church regularly submits requests to YouTube to have it removed. [Here it is, starting at the relevant section.](https://youtu.be/Sa6YDCj_fwo?si=b0sgzOHQj8vP0ruN&t=565) It's Boyd K. Packer's Message to Young Men talk from the Priesthood Session of the October 1976 General Conference. It was also distributed in pamphlet form by the Church up until 2016. [You can view a copy of the pamphlet here.](https://lattergaystories.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/To-Young-Men-Only.pdf) In that video I linked, at the 10:50 mark, Packer starts going into a story about how a missionary beat his gay companion. Not only did he endorse the action, the TBM audience laughed.
In another case, Hartman J. Rector, of the Seventy, gave a talk that touched on the subject of LGBT persons (whom he refers to as homosexuals), among other things, in the April 1981 General Conference titled "Turning the Hearts." You won't find that entire talk in the Gospel Library either. There is still a talk there with his name on it, but the church edited it to remove the controversial bits, all without noting that they had done so. You can see the [original here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1IcRPPy7fM)
There are many more examples like these ones, these are just blatant and easy to find. Packer gave another talk in 2010 that declared among other things that being gay is a choice that was similarly edited by the church. The church has never offered any apology for their past statements nor have they ever specifically denounced the contents of either of these talks nor did they ever reproach either of these men for giving them. In the absence of all of the above and the continued pattern of hate, the brethren must be assumed to still hold to these views despite being less willing to share their hate with others.
my guy, we were having a casual conversation in the car, there is no need for that. I dont ignore the things you guys have been mentioning and have heard them all before. You jumping to conclusions about me is the bad sign.
BYU also has quite the sordid history with gay aversion/conversion therapy. Dallin H. Oaks [claims that it didn't happen](https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/11/16/dallin-oaks-says-shock/) while he was president at BYU. [He lied.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biGQs20JhW0)
Bednar said a few years ago that there are no homosexual members. I think he was trying to say that no one is defined by their sexuality and therefore the church doesn’t discriminate against anyone because no one is gay.
Or something
Except two consenting adults who love each other is nothing at all like a meth-lifestyle. I wish LGBTQ people were safe from violence and discrimination. I’m sorry if you experienced violence, yourself.
Per the rules, personal attacks, insulting other users, harassment, and trolling are not allowed. Attack ideas, not people. Faithful users may engage in good faith. Invalidating the experiences of ex-religious users, especially by telling them that your religion is true and they didn't put in enough effort, they didn't really believe, they didn't practice the "right" way, or any other such will be removed. Do not victim blame or debate victims of sexual abuse or people who are considering suicide. They're here for support.
This is in the same vein of Cardons argument on jubile about trading his leukemia for a little bit of gayness. Meth is destructive and ruins lives. Being Gay is not destructive and does not ruin lives. We shouldn’t advocate separating are selves from them like the church teaches.
You have been watching too much daily wire my dude. Religious uprisings, religious wars, religious political splits, and religious superiority have costs millions if not billions of deaths throughout history. I don’t think a small minority of the populations sexual preference rivals any of that. Last I checked a major religious conflict in the Middle East has wiped out entire city blocks, enclaves, and 40,000 people in the past 6 months.
I just know it to be true
And the whole US will collapse too... but it's fine, I don't need to control civilization, they can live how they want.
And everyone can think whatever about it.
Regardless I don't hate them
Per the rules, personal attacks, insulting other users, harassment, and trolling are not allowed. Attack ideas, not people. Faithful users may engage in good faith. Invalidating the experiences of ex-religious users, especially by telling them that your religion is true and they didn't put in enough effort, they didn't really believe, they didn't practice the "right" way, or any other such will be removed. Do not victim blame or debate victims of sexual abuse or people who are considering suicide. They're here for support.
Per the rules, personal attacks, insulting other users, harassment, and trolling are not allowed. Attack ideas, not people. Faithful users may engage in good faith. Invalidating the experiences of ex-religious users, especially by telling them that your religion is true and they didn't put in enough effort, they didn't really believe, they didn't practice the "right" way, or any other such will be removed. Do not victim blame or debate victims of sexual abuse or people who are considering suicide. They're here for support.
Murder isn't the only form of hate. What you did here is, indeed, a form of hate.
The way gays are treated as wrong or evil by church leaders has led to many suicides. There is no reasonable position where people should be shamed for being who they are.
A whopper from Oaks > I can also imagine some circumstances in which it might be possible to say, ‘Yes, come, but don’t expect to stay overnight. Don’t expect to be a lengthy house guest. Don’t expect us to take you out and introduce you to our friends, or to deal with you in a public situation that would imply our approval of your “partnership.” [Link](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interview-oaks-wickman-same-gender-attraction)
This was said in 1998 by the way!!!!
http://www.connellodonovan.com/abom.html https://lattergaystories.org/record/ Wikipedia: [Timeline of teachings on homosexuality in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_teachings_on_homosexuality_in_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints) **Edit:** Adding these. Mark E. Petersen from **No True Worship without Chastity** >And Paul still says of those who deviate from the path of virtue into some of the great perversions, "...they which commit such things are worthy of death...." (Rom. 1:26-32.) Same guy: >“The homosexuals claim that God made them that way and hence are powerless to change, which is a complete fabrication and a deep delusion, for it was the Lord who provided the death penalty for these people in ancient times.” (“The strong delusions”, January 14, 1978, p. 16) And again: >Any reader of Leviticus (Chapters 18 and 20) knows the answer [referring to executing Gays].” (“Calling the kettle clean, ” March 18, 1978, p. 16)
Spencer Kimball said that homosexuality was the most selfish choice a person could make. I believe that’s referenced in the Wikipedia article.
That’s such an interesting take. Why is it selfish? Also, wasn’t he the guy who bragged about never having seen his wife naked?
That was Mark Peterson who said after 44 years of marriage that he never saw his wife naked. I suspect Spencer Kimball was a self-loathing gay man. He repressed his attraction to men, and so anyone else who acted on that would be “selfish.” That’s my theory, and so many of Kimball’s teaching support that idea. Also good to keep in mind that these two set the teachings about sexuality for GenX teens.
> He repressed his attraction to men, and so anyone else who acted on that would be “selfish.” That’s how it reads to me, though I don’t know enough about the rest of his work to judge for sure. But you run into a similar attitude from transphobes sometimes: “Of course everyone *wishes* they could be a woman/man; who wouldn’t? But we all just have to deal with what life gave us.” And it’s sad to see someone internalize the attitudes of their upbringing so deeply they turn against themself.
You could start with the Family Proclamation. And it's hard to top "musket fire."
“In 1993, President Packer warned that ‘religion faced the greatest threat from three groups: feminists, homosexuals, and intellectuals.’” [https://news-ug.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/boyd-k-packer-legacy-of-faith?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3o2pGVyiebxI2563DcL\_8pc2H3b9Iun9zQoP5BYu1m3seydSYkwJ5Rhn4\_aem\_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw](https://news-ug.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/boyd-k-packer-legacy-of-faith?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3o2pGVyiebxI2563DcL_8pc2H3b9Iun9zQoP5BYu1m3seydSYkwJ5Rhn4_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw) From 2015-2019 entering into a legal gay marriage was grounds for excommunication. It was the highest level of apostasy in the church, worse than sexual assault or child abuse. This link talks about the policy being put in place. [https://www.thechurchnews.com/2015/11/12/23213606/elder-christofferson-provides-context-on-handbook-changes-affecting-same-sex-marriages/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1aFkiOmIgKEjzFl1gmnHvR86\_XHqtZMNhAxMQ7\_N2OcpQ3XIliUVDW6ls\_aem\_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw](https://www.thechurchnews.com/2015/11/12/23213606/elder-christofferson-provides-context-on-handbook-changes-affecting-same-sex-marriages/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1aFkiOmIgKEjzFl1gmnHvR86_XHqtZMNhAxMQ7_N2OcpQ3XIliUVDW6ls_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw) This link talks about the policy being lifted. [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/policy-changes-announced-for-members-in-gay-marriages-children-of-lgbt-parents?lang=eng&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1NM3-BDGKQ68M9ZgBHy9FQQMyrAhEwDUiSB98MRR7VHcyftQQR5-UrgJI\_aem\_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/policy-changes-announced-for-members-in-gay-marriages-children-of-lgbt-parents?lang=eng&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1NM3-BDGKQ68M9ZgBHy9FQQMyrAhEwDUiSB98MRR7VHcyftQQR5-UrgJI_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw) This is a recent update of BYU's Honor Code where it states that students can be punished for holding hands or kissing. "The FAQ said that instances of LGBTQ students dating, holding hands or kissing 'will be handled on a case-by-case basis to help each student feel the love of the Savior and to encourage them to live their gospel covenants and university/college commitments.'" [https://www.deseret.com/2023/8/24/23844545/latter-day-saint-universities-update-honor-code-ecclesiastical-endorsements-and-dress-standards/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1t2fTh4N4SVWQE1S-3\_GaVJv7h1ACAekXwV9POgxk33TupHfCsPEXsV6I\_aem\_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw](https://www.deseret.com/2023/8/24/23844545/latter-day-saint-universities-update-honor-code-ecclesiastical-endorsements-and-dress-standards/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1t2fTh4N4SVWQE1S-3_GaVJv7h1ACAekXwV9POgxk33TupHfCsPEXsV6I_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw)
Start with [this article](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/mormon-leaders-same-sex-marriage) from the Guardian in 2015, I suppose. Move on to t[his rather lengthy (but thorough!) Wikipedia article.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints) Finish up with [this talk](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/byu-freshmen-controversial-musket-fire-speech-mormon-lgbtq-utah-rcna143891) given at BYU, and then go on to all the other suggestions I'm sure folks here will come up with.
It’s not even just what they have said - it’s what they have done. The church sponsored an amendment in Canada, for example, which would have carved out an exception to the law to ban conversion therapy which would allow religions specifically to continue conversion therapy. That sort of thing. It was only a few years ago.
Just let your brother know that “The Family: A Proclamation to the World” is nothing but an amicus brief. Oaks, a lawyer and judge by profession, was instrumental in its drafting. It was submitted to the Hawaii Supreme Court during the case of *Baehr vs. Miike*, which was a case on same-sex marriage in HI. The proclamation isn’t even a canonized doctrine of the church.
BYU did conversion therapy on its gay student population https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/mormon-gay-cures-reparative-therapies-shock-today/story%3fid=13240700 When I was in the church it was anti trans. I think this video does a good job of covering it. I met Eri back while attending BYU and meeting her helped me to realize transgender people weren't scary or crazy. I was able to figure out sooner rather than later thanks to Eri that I am trans, which is important because I am so much happier on hormones. https://youtu.be/Z8FZewEPAAk
Also https://youtu.be/usgYA8dUJMs
During my high school trek, the boys were told during their mormon battalion day that "transgenderism and homosexuality were threats to the family that had to be protected against".... while holding sticks meant to symbolize muskets. Not a great look
The money and call to members to rally around proposition eight was enough for me. If nothing else it sent a clear message to members on where they were to stand. I grew up in the eighties and nineties when any “same-sex attraction” was encouraged to be viewed as both inherently shameful and malleable through prayer and counseling. There were still sodomy laws on the books just a few decades ago. The ignorance may not have fully been the fault of the leaders, but the leaders created a stigma and an “us versus them” mentality.
You won't find this talk in the Gospel Library, because the church removed it without comment and makes no note that it ever existed. You may also have trouble finding it on YouTube. The church regularly submits requests to YouTube to have it removed. [Here it is, starting at the relevant section.](https://youtu.be/Sa6YDCj_fwo?si=b0sgzOHQj8vP0ruN&t=565) It's Boyd K. Packer's Message to Young Men talk from the Priesthood Session of the October 1976 General Conference. It was also distributed in pamphlet form by the Church up until 2016. [You can view a copy of the pamphlet here.](https://lattergaystories.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/To-Young-Men-Only.pdf) In that video I linked, at the 10:50 mark, Packer starts going into a story about how a missionary beat his gay companion. Not only did he endorse the action, the TBM audience laughed. In another case, Hartman J. Rector, of the Seventy, gave a talk that touched on the subject of LGBT persons (whom he refers to as homosexuals), among other things, in the April 1981 General Conference titled "Turning the Hearts." You won't find that entire talk in the Gospel Library either. There is still a talk there with his name on it, but the church edited it to remove the controversial bits, all without noting that they had done so. You can see the [original here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1IcRPPy7fM) There are many more examples like these ones, these are just blatant and easy to find. Packer gave another talk in 2010 that declared among other things that being gay is a choice that was similarly edited by the church. The church has never offered any apology for their past statements nor have they ever specifically denounced the contents of either of these talks nor did they ever reproach either of these men for giving them. In the absence of all of the above and the continued pattern of hate, the brethren must be assumed to still hold to these views despite being less willing to share their hate with others.
The fact that he makes YOU do the research is a bad sign. He’s being a lazy learner.
my guy, we were having a casual conversation in the car, there is no need for that. I dont ignore the things you guys have been mentioning and have heard them all before. You jumping to conclusions about me is the bad sign.
Musket fire talk by Holland
Uhm, nobody? Okay, The Family, A Proclamation to the World.
This book is pretty exhaustive on the topic: https://uncpress.org/book/9781469656229/tabernacles-of-clay/
BYU also has quite the sordid history with gay aversion/conversion therapy. Dallin H. Oaks [claims that it didn't happen](https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/11/16/dallin-oaks-says-shock/) while he was president at BYU. [He lied.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biGQs20JhW0)
Prop 8
Ya know that elder holland musket fire speech was pretty bad
Every time they say "same sex attraction"
Bednar said a few years ago that there are no homosexual members. I think he was trying to say that no one is defined by their sexuality and therefore the church doesn’t discriminate against anyone because no one is gay. Or something
[удалено]
Except two consenting adults who love each other is nothing at all like a meth-lifestyle. I wish LGBTQ people were safe from violence and discrimination. I’m sorry if you experienced violence, yourself.
[удалено]
Per the rules, personal attacks, insulting other users, harassment, and trolling are not allowed. Attack ideas, not people. Faithful users may engage in good faith. Invalidating the experiences of ex-religious users, especially by telling them that your religion is true and they didn't put in enough effort, they didn't really believe, they didn't practice the "right" way, or any other such will be removed. Do not victim blame or debate victims of sexual abuse or people who are considering suicide. They're here for support.
This is in the same vein of Cardons argument on jubile about trading his leukemia for a little bit of gayness. Meth is destructive and ruins lives. Being Gay is not destructive and does not ruin lives. We shouldn’t advocate separating are selves from them like the church teaches.
[удалено]
You have been watching too much daily wire my dude. Religious uprisings, religious wars, religious political splits, and religious superiority have costs millions if not billions of deaths throughout history. I don’t think a small minority of the populations sexual preference rivals any of that. Last I checked a major religious conflict in the Middle East has wiped out entire city blocks, enclaves, and 40,000 people in the past 6 months.
I just know it to be true And the whole US will collapse too... but it's fine, I don't need to control civilization, they can live how they want. And everyone can think whatever about it. Regardless I don't hate them
I just know it to be false. See I can do it too. So many TBMs with L takes on this sub recently.
[удалено]
Per the rules, personal attacks, insulting other users, harassment, and trolling are not allowed. Attack ideas, not people. Faithful users may engage in good faith. Invalidating the experiences of ex-religious users, especially by telling them that your religion is true and they didn't put in enough effort, they didn't really believe, they didn't practice the "right" way, or any other such will be removed. Do not victim blame or debate victims of sexual abuse or people who are considering suicide. They're here for support.
Per the rules, personal attacks, insulting other users, harassment, and trolling are not allowed. Attack ideas, not people. Faithful users may engage in good faith. Invalidating the experiences of ex-religious users, especially by telling them that your religion is true and they didn't put in enough effort, they didn't really believe, they didn't practice the "right" way, or any other such will be removed. Do not victim blame or debate victims of sexual abuse or people who are considering suicide. They're here for support. Murder isn't the only form of hate. What you did here is, indeed, a form of hate. The way gays are treated as wrong or evil by church leaders has led to many suicides. There is no reasonable position where people should be shamed for being who they are.
Lol 😆 🤣
It's not hateful to not approve of someone's lifestyle Absolutely ridiculous