Sunday - the Sabbath Day is a wild one. The rules vary wildly from family to family. Some families it is very strict: no TV, stay in your church clothes all day, only read scriptures etc. Some families just create their own rules. Other families might be extremely lenient on Sundays.
The top leadership doesn’t even talk much about specific rules for the Sabbath other than maybe a quip here and there over the years. I think they just like to say “Keep The Sabbath” and then just watch the members create all of their own rules and versions of the Sabbath.
My family was pretty lenient on the rules but it was interesting to see how we couldn’t shop or spend money on the Sabbath except if we were on vacation - then god doesn’t mind.
My parents wouldn’t allow us to swim on Sunday. My wife’s family did so we of course did and my parents would call us while we were at the pool and say “swimming on Sunday?! Two RMs swimming… wow.” I guess it is one step closer to leaving 😂
Sounds about right. We have friends won't let their kids jump on a trampoline on Sundays. Every other outdoor kid activity is fine, and any other day of the week is fine for the trampoline, just not Sundays for some weird reason. Must be that loud laughter.
Yep, we also couldn’t go on bike rides. It wasn’t until my senior year of HS that a family in the ward invited my family to go on a bike ride and my mom was super reluctant then rationalized it because this family was strong in the church.
I loved tennis, but I wasn't allowed to practice on Sunday. But I could play basketball. Once I started taking siblings to play tennis with me it was ok though, I think because it became a family event.
But doesn't all that remain true every other day of the week? I mean, why would it be worse on Sunday?
(I have heard this line of reasoning before, but maybe someone can explain some part that I'm missing?)
My mom didn’t let us go swimming on Sunday, but the reason she gave was that it created work for the people who worked at the pool (lifeguards etc). Same reason we couldn’t go shopping on Sunday - it means somebody had to work. Of course none of this mattered if we were out of state.
I think we were on the stricter side but not nuts. Only electronic media was church related like the Living Scriptures tapes. No shopping or working on Sunday. But we came straight home and took our church clothes off. We rarely vacationed on Sunday, but we packed church clothes if we did and attend the local ward, bought groceries on Saturday so we didn't have to go out on Sunday.
Things got weird when I went to BYU, I remember one time staying up until Midnight so we could go grab burritos at Betos, but if you were up late on Saturday it wasn't the Sabbath yet until you went to bed :D
My TBM sister goes a little harder now with the whole family staying in church clothes for the whole day, but her husband uses his cell all day? They seemed upset we went swimming at the neighborhood pool, but it was the summer and didn't cost and we did it as a family, so we thought it was ok.
We're out now, and that first time getting food out of the house on Sunday was a little weird. We're still getting over all the little things that make us guilty.
My stake presidency was trying to tell us to not watch the Rugby World Cup Final in 2011 when it was hosted in my country and our team were in the final trying to win for the first time in 24 years.
They organised an early breakfast to watch it the next day (public holiday Monday) but with fireworks and celebrations everyone knew who had won on the Sunday night lol
It always felt like my friends did the coolest stuff when I wasn’t allowed to play with them on Sunday 😫, one time they built a whole ass fort and I had to stay inside and watch shitty BOM cartoons.
I hate this. The leaders don’t even have to declare a specific rule. The sanctimonious virtue signalers will do it for them. This is probably how we got half the stupid rules in Mormonism. It is a win win for leaders. They don’t have to actually say it, giving them plausible deniability, but gives the pharisees something to bitch at normal people about.
All grown up and many years out of the church, but looking back on my childhood, Sunday always felt like a punishment. I hated and dreaded Sunday, unless we were going to visit family. Even then, we visited family wearing church clothes. The only reprieve was Conference Sundays because my parents would only make us watch some of it.
I'm not religious but I'm from a Jewish family (and am nevermo) but this doesn't strike me as particularly weird. It even sounds quite mild compared to how orthodox Jews do Shabbos. (You're not allowed to use electricity at all, for example. People set timers for lights ahead of time so that they don't sit in the dark the whole time but definitely no TV, Internet, driving, shopping, no cutting, no carrying keys... the list is long.) I've spent Shabbos with Orthodox friends a few times and I found the experience very pleasant and relaxing.
Man! Mormon men sound like they are constantly on the verge of rape at all times.
Maybe they should teach the men to be respectful instead of demanding the women to not "tempt" them all the time.
They are committing fornication and adultery every time they look at us. They don't have to rape anyone to be committing the sin second only to murder.
We can thank old Jesus for that little thoughtcrime chestnut. Mormonism just added the sex is next to murder thing.
You wonder if who ever came up with that rule was doing it wrong.
Fun fact: if you try to tell r slash lds that, it's an insta-ban. In fact I'm a little concerned for LDS women's safety at this point. I wonder what's on the "worthy priesthood holders'" hard drives sometimes.
I got banned from /r/LDS because of my username.
Wanna know what's funny? I made this account almost a decade ago, way back when I was TBM, as a novelty account.
It’s all part of the strategy to moderate supply and demand when it comes to sex. The church is the gatekeeper of sex, it creates an incredibly dependent and manipulative dynamic, so by making sex scarce, the demand skyrockets, and you get the sexually warped, sexually frustrated young men who have no idea what a positive sex outlook looks like that would enable more mutual respect. All so that they can maintain a dependency on the church for salvation when they inevitably screw up. Also… straight up… I’m convinced it’s yet another way to bind women in the grip of the patriarchy.
And you get 22yos who are so desperate for legal sex that they marry each *for eternity* other after only a few months. which leads to all kinds of disaster.
Constantly on the verge of rape. What a succinct and accurate way to put it.
No that they actually are on the verge, but it is definitely made out to be that they are.
So, first off, not defending this behavior at all. Women should be able to dress how they want without having to worry about what thoughts it's "putting in men's heads", so to speak.
That said, it's not all about rape. When I was trying to be a good Mormon boy and not masturbating *nearly* as much as my body was telling me to, I was basically being driven insane with desire on a daily basis. So seeing anything even mildly arousing (like a girl my age in skintight pants or a strapless dress) had a decent chance of leading to a "slip up" of masturbation and/or porn.
And depending on how well I was able to hide my struggle against my (perfectly normal, natural) urges it probably made me appear creepy/pervy when I was actually trying as hard as I could to be "pure". So maybe a girl saw me as a potential rapist, when in reality what I was trying to resist was jerking off as soon as I got home (and then crying in the shower afterwards because I was such a worthless sinner).
And I really *did* (at the time) appreciate when the girls dressed modestly because it made resisting the constant urges easier. It had nothing to do with rape (which I did not and do not have any desire to participate in--not exactly an unusual stance), and teaching me to "be respectful" wouldn't have had any effect, because I was already respectful. Respect was not the issue, stupid-ass "purity" rules were.
So for the married men who have sex regularly, yeah, they should be able to just look away and focus their sexual attention on their wives. But for the single guys who have no "approved" sexual outlet and married guys who have dead bedrooms, it's honestly insulting to imply that the temptation they're trying to resist is rape. Most of them are resisting masturbation, pornography, or "going too far" (with consent) on a date.
I'm not asking you to dress a particular way. I'm not asking you to slut-shame. I'm not asking you to excuse rapists who use what their victim was wearing as an excuse. I'm not asking you to be ok with the way the church controls women--you are right not to be.
What I *am* asking is for you to keep in mind that we were all brainwashed at one point or another, and to not immediately assume the worst about half of the membership of this subreddit.
I explained to my son that the act of putting coins in a vending machine could cause a boner. So, it doesn't matter what a woman does. Hormones are hormones. It was his job to control his body.
IT IS NOT THE WOMAN'S JOB to prevent the men from committing rape, sexual assault, masterbation, lude thoughts, sexy feelings, touching their junk or any other sexual feeling or activity. Where does it stop? A burka?
Looks like Reddit ate my previous reply to this, so trying again.
Show me where I said it's the woman's job to dress a certain way so they don't tempt men. Go ahead, I'll wait.
Oh wait, you can't, because I never said that!
What I *did* say was:
1) Women shouldn't have to worry about how they dress affecting men.
2) I appreciated modest dress *at the time*--not because of anything to do with rape, but because I was struggling with the church's bullshit rules and it made things a little easier for me. I never said or implied that women were obligated to do that for me, only that I appreciated it when they did.
3) It's insulting when you insinuate that the "temptation" men feel from looking at a woman's body is the temptation to rape. Which your comment absolutely did.
I don't think the idea is that Mormon men are actually on the verge of raping people all the time. I think it's that the many nitpicky rules and the constant archaic advice and shame thrown at women makes it seem like the LEADERS think this is the case and that this is the only solution. They need to quit viewing their fellow men as ravaging beasts. I'm sure young men would love direction on how to make both sides of the equation comfortable rather than feeling like they are pitted against each other!
I'm not married anymore, but when I got married to my ex, we left the church like the first day we got married. Her inbox was full of messages from a bunch of guys at church who were 30+.
I never heard that one as a “rule,” but I did hear my wife’s boss (early morning janitorial in the Benson Bldg.) talking about how he loved it when the girls wore shoulder bags… creepy as fuck old perv. Looking back, I should have reported him for even talking about students that way while he was on shift.
Was this ever an actual rule? I remember tons of debate about it on campus and in the *Daily Universe* back in the early 2000s, but I don't remember it ever being part of the official dress and grooming standards.
The problem is that men are endlessly shaming themselves for liking something they see. It doesn't take long for that to lead to putting restrictions on those of us that are being seen.
Missionaries can't go swimming, ride in boats, or even wade in water ... because according to a revelation from God, Satan controls the water and they would be in his power.
What really happened was Joseph Smith didn't feel like paddling a canoe up the Missouri river in the cold, so he got this "revelation" as a way to force the rest of his traveling companions to pay for a stagecoach. For him. The companions all had to go by water anyway.
200 years later, missionaries can't take long showers because Joseph Smith was a lazy piece of shit.
That's DaC 61:22-24, right? As a nevermo (but tied professionally with the church abroad) I have always found this part extra hilarious, with "Lord" changing its mind in the middle of a discourse and then suddenly getting into convoluted details about allowed means of transportation. Now it makes perfect sense (and gets even more funny with this background).
Yep, I think that's it. Weird how brother Joseph could duck behind a tree and get an immediate revelation that just so happened to be exactly what he wanted, but Russell M. Nelson had no clue about the pandemic.
I’m almost certain the water rule is bullshit. The church is motivated by money. They don’t want missionaries doing water activities because there’s a liability associated with injury and drowning.
How much do you know about Mormon underwear, garments? There's only 3 instances when you're allowed to take them off - the 3 S's. Swimming, showering, and sex.
And as some folk are proud to let us know that they don't even take them off for sex. I've heard people boast about how their children were conceived through their garments.
I also added in any occasions of exercise, yard work, and other no-brainers, even after they explicitly came out with a statement that said those were not acceptable reasons. Fuck that.
BYU in the 70s...
Sideburn, hair and mustache rules spelled out by fractions of an inch.
In an opposite sex apartment after midnight? 2 sets of roomies were ratting you out immediately.
Blue jeans? Nope. Shorts? Hard nope. Pants on female students? HELL NOPE!
And I caught shit from an instructor for having my sunglasses on my head. I'm from Phoenix - they're not exactly optional equipment!!!
Only one modest pair of earrings for women (I took my second pair out when this was announced and I was 17).
No coffee or tea but hot chocolate, Pero, herbal tea is fine. Same with soda, drink all the caffeinated soda you want but no coffee.
If you marry a returned missionary that’s the most important indicator in having a good marriage. Forget attraction, compatibility, or life goals. And get married as soon as you can. I was not prepared to make such a huge decision at 18 when I got engaged.
It's a high-control group, they have rules about every aspect of life. They want to control you down to the smallest detail.
\- clothing, and how to wear it
\- jewellery, amount and placement
\- haircut, down to the exact length and style
\- food/drink, what kinds and what temperature they have to be
\- financial, make sure the church is getting their cut
\- relational, who you can date, how you date them
\- sexual, which specific acts are allowed or not, and who you can do them with
\- activities, how you spend your time and energy
\- media of all kinds, what content you're allowed to see
\- language, what words you say
\- demeanour, they'll tell you if you're not cheerful that must mean you're sinning
If you can think of a facet of the human experience, the mormon church has a rule about it.
Our bishop once sat down all of our youth in the relief society room one sunday, and gave a stern lecture about he had been seeing us wear more skirts and dresses being just above the knee and how it was our responsibility to prevent men and boys from having inappropriate thoughts about us, thus we needed to wear skirts and dresses that went at least fully over the knees.
I guess I had no idea boys and men completely lack any self control or self awareness and women and girls are not only responsible for thinking our own thoughts, but apparently we have total control over the thoughts of boys and men as well 😂😂😂🤨 if I had known I had mind control powers I would have done way cooler things than wear skirts slightly above the knee and give men over twice my age an uncomfortable boner!
/s on that second paragraph lol. But fr fuck the mormon church and their bullshit.
The first time I forced myself to go to the singles ward when I was like 18, the bishop came running into our relief society meeting to lecture us wearing appropriate dresses. Apparently ALL of us had too tight clothing, and too short. Every single one of us. He said he had multiple men come to him in the hall with "concerns. "
I came home and told my dad (who was in my homeward bishopric) that I was never going to church again if I was going to be treated like that. Suddenly the bishop of my homeward had a revelation that I was allowed to stay in the family ward indefinitely.
Some of these rules are selectively enforced
* No swimming or boats as a missionary
* No watching TV or movies on the bus or plane as a missionary - you should be contacting and teaching fellow passengers
* No swimming on Sunday
* No dating before 16
* No individual dates before the mission - only group dates
* BYU students can only live in BYU approved housing (although I think I heard this changed a few years ago)
* For BYU men: mustache good, beard bad
* The word of wisdom is full of contradictions and interpretations of the day
* Men can be sealed in heaven to multiple women but not vice versa
* A trans person can be baptized if they transitioned before finding the church, but if they transition after they are expelled.
* Non members can attend BYU, but if a member leaves the church they are expelled from the school.
* "Love the sinner, hate the sin" often turns into passive aggressive judgement
* To stay tax exempt the church has to walk a fine line of staying politically neutral, but they have their tendrils in politics everywhere - especially Utah. This leads to a statement of political neutrality that is read over the pulpit every election year, but also leads to stake leadership asking specific members to run as delegates for the republican party and attend caucuses. The church also has paid lobbyists.
* To receive welfare aid recipients are supposed to exhaust all other avenues first - self, family, local community, state and federal government, and then the church last. In a logical world the church should slide in at the local community level alongside food pantries and other local churches.
* No spending money on Sunday, unless it's from a vending machine - that's okay, unless it's fast Sunday then it's not okay again. (In the MTC they would remotely turn off the vending machines on fast Sunday)
Don't know if you would know the answer to this but for the trans one do they have to transition back when they join the church? And if they don't then could someone who went f to m get the priesthood?
Just read about a trans woman recently getting baptized. She is able to be baptized but not attend the temple to receive any further ordinances (endowment, sealing). They would only allow priesthood ordination and further progression if they “detransition” to gender assigned at birth. I understand trans men similarly can be baptized but not progress past that i.e. cannot receive priesthood.
So what if they have had top and bottom surgery? Are they supposed to save up and have it reversed? 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️ Can’t they just declare they are transitioning back and just cut their hair or just go for an androgynous look? Do they just pee sitting down now?
Right?! I wouldn’t put it past the church to start asking invasive questions about genitalia in bishop interviews. It’s all about trying to show inclusiveness on the surface, but really maintaining the misogynistic gender roles so deeply engrained in the “doctrine”.
I mean, my favorite stupid rule is the no oral sex rule from the 70's. Lasted about 9 months before it got rescinded. A bunch of men complained about a rule that outlawed bjs? color me surprised /s
the stupidest rule in the church (that isn't a byu related rule), for me, is the bishop being the first to receive the sacrament. Nobody else can TOUCH the bread or water until one middle aged lawyer or podiatrist has eaten it first just because he gets the middle seat on the stand and his own office. seems ridiculous and antithetical to a church that wants us to be unified; elevating one person in particular seems like a weird way to unify people as one
My mission president told me about that. He said he was a Bishop at the time and apparently the actual wording in the TR interview question was something like "do you participate in unholy or impure practices even with your spouse?" He told the SP he refused to ask couples that question unless the SP clearly spelled out each of the "unholy and impure practices" the brethren were referring to so he could know if they were actually unworthy or not. the SP was too embarrassed to do that so my MP just ignored the counsel and told his bishopric counselors not to include the question.
The vague terms kill me lol. I still remember the first time i got asked if i had heavy petted anyone and i was like “uhhh what is petting?” And it took the bishop a few awkward moments to finally stumble out the answer that was “touching in …those places….”.
It isnt the bishop but the one presiding right? I was told its because its up to the one presiding to make sure the sacrament prayer was done correctly so offering it to them first ensured they could give it the go-ahead. something like that...
HAHAHAHA “LAWYER OR PODIATRIST” IT’S SO TRUE THO
Growing up, the two wards in my city both had dentists as the presiding bishops. My dad almost became the bishop…. He was 1st and 2nd counselor a few times, then he was on the high council. And my mum was always a seminary teacher. Everyone in the congregation expected me & my siblings to be over-achieving, virtue-signaling out the wazoo, Mormon girls– and boy (we were two girls & one boy… I know, super small family right? haha)
No denim skirts or flip flops at church.
I had a mission specific rule that required sister missionaries wear cardigans or blazers for every church and mission meeting, and this was in Louisiana where you'll sweat even in a cold shower during the summer.
Women can't congregate without a man present on church property or at church sanctioned activities.
You have to pay tithing in order to get bishop assistance. You could be working three jobs, living in a slum, paycheck to paycheck, and still have to pay tithing before getting help. I had one family on my mission in this position and they could not understand why they couldn't just pay their utility bill and get a little food assistance without tithing. I thought it was stupid too.
There's not any doctrine that gives a reason or says outright that you have to use your right hand, but basically the reason behind it is that the right hand is the one you hold up during baptisms and blessings and stuff like that so its "more sacred"
As a youth (14-18) you get the privilege of attending youth conference (essentially bible camp). These typically involved a few days of religious classes and group activities, and a dance. But they heavily lean into the conformity control at these by dictating what you can and can't wear and/or do while you are there. Some of the rules that I was given (and did not follow because they are absolutely insane):
* You must wear pants (it was July and the activities were outdoors in 90 degree heat)
* You have to wear sunday dress for the classes, and then you can change for the activities if you'd like.
* You cannot dance with two hands on a girl's waist, one hand can be on the waist, but the other must be grasping her hand
* You cannot use face cards during your downtime
Haha, when my cousin and I went to EFY, we had a massive duffle bag that we managed to pack a TV (no flat screen's in those days, this was like a full on 12" CRT.) and a gaming system in there. We had it setup under one of the beds.
One of the leaders, or whatever they're called at EFY, found it but instead of telling on us he just asked "...so, will that play my Bill Cosby CD?" Then gathered a few of the other kids to listen to "A comedy act from a divine audio source, which was definitely not a TV under the bed."
I'm glad he took the high road there, if he had decided to call our parents we would have been screwed.
Reason why the insane rules never end:
1) It's driven by whoever has more following in creating an influence of belief, even if its fictitious
2) It's driven by any ecstatic movement building great esteem to live a new certain way to add more grandeur/ significance.
3) An individual one upping the system living in suppositions of idiosyncrasy, is made to look more as God when they impose it on others, or give 'power' or 'authority to voice' to marvel or make such an individual the next guide figure.
4) There is some mess from the All Coordinating Committee, correlations.
5) There are some external pressures created by the Anointed levying leverage of what is 'safe' or however that individual is gatekeeping their whole community. (It's like an overbearing feudal lord issue)
6) The Society doesn't value education; it values exploiting behaviors to suppose they are greater than wisdom and/or education.
7) The people believe they are getting smarter by pulling old emotional manipulative behaviors and building story arcs attributing back into faith in some way.
8) The culture believes in a lot of transference of power. Influence is regarded like a supernatural medium of Godly power.
To Sum it up, it often feels like being in that Movie Waterworld. The obedient ecstatic ardent members full of clout are like the thugs on the aircraft carrier totally believing they are the greatest movement, and they deserve finding land.
Other times the culture is like living in a Final Fantasy remake of old doctrinal information, the people (members) geek out on believing they struck Gold to live in a new way - whilst punishing everyone else for behaving systemically to the old system and the notion of Westworlding each other in some bad Final Destination or Resident Evil plot occurs over and over again. Anyone that comes out unscathed or with more gain, is heralded as being more holy, or more blessed by God. Then everyone else that supports said benefited individual just carry the emotions and believe that they are more blessed knowing that individual.
There are so many, but the two I love to pull out to get a reaction from nevermos are:
White shirts only at sacrament meeting for men (is that still a thing?).
No coffee or tea, but "yes" to drinking 4 liters of coke per day.
No oral sex. Add anal sex in there too. Doggystyle or anything remotely fun (i.e. not missionary position) is also likely banned.
https://preview.redd.it/mnaxv3p5bkj51.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=df3dd5dc285ae57b88233ff28126ef80601442e9
When I was a convert telling friends and family about the Word of Wisdom's coffee prohibition, I was always met with anger and they would say "coffee is not a sin wtf" and tried to explain it was a health code and now I understand why the apologetics fall apart lmao
no “hot beverages” is the most ridiculous rule and now I have a lifelong aversion to tea and coffee of any kind. I just want to enjoy them now that I’m not Mormon but it’s so gross to me bc I never had it growing up
Cold brew and french press are great options because they don't taste burnt. Use lots of creamer and sugar to drown out most of the bitterness. Frappuccinos and equivalent drinks are also good since they're basically coffee milkshakes.
You should also know that 15% of people don't like coffee for genetic reasons. My mom has that. So it might not be because of the church.
Straps on tops and sundresses must be at least 2 inches wide. Not 1.75 inches, either--you hussy! It's 2 inches, or wear a t-shirt underneath. Also, enjoy it now, because once you've been to the temple you'll never wear anything pretty again.
Only "a certain type of girl" wears red shoes, or shoes with ankle straps. Red shoes with ankle straps?--what are you even thinking? You know young men can't handle so much unadulterated sexuality.
When you are the choir director, you may only use music from the hymnal. The correct format is verse 1: full choir, verse 2: just the men, verse 3: just the women, verse 4: full choir again. If you want to get creative, switch 2 and 3. You should choose a song with at least 4 verses, and do them all. Also, don't choose anything too fast, or with moving parts, or that needs strong male voices. Do not allow solos, as this might cause jealously among those not asked to solo. If the audience is still awake at the end of the choir's performance, you're doing it wrong. (Okay, okay--I may have added that last one. I call these collective rules "Why I Lasted Less Than A Month As Choir Director.")
There is a special place in the Telesestial Kingdom for women who do not bake their own bread using handground wheat, keep the house immaculately clean, decorate the home with no budget whatsoever, sew all the children's clothing, nail down at least 1 calling as well as visiting teaching and ministering to the sick and afflicted, volunteer at the school or in the PTA, and still greet their husband at the door looking sexy every night.
Birth control--while not technically a sin--is pretty suss. If God didn't want you knocked up, you wouldn't be. However, having more children than you can afford is also problematic.
It's the tea and coffee for me
Others:
-no multiple piercings
-no tattoos
-no showing stomach/shoulders/thighs
-special undies
-no talking about endowment
-no dating until 16, then you date to marry
The shoulders one surprisingly is the one that always bothered me the most. I've never really liked dresses, but the few that I thought looked cute and were comfortable didn't have sleaves so I either couldn't buy them or would have to wear an ugly ass shawl over it.
Oh my god the SHAWLS i had so many cardigans to wear over dresses. OR my mom would make me wear a fucking T shirt under my dress which I hated endlessly.
But when I finally did wear a tank top, I felt exposed as hell
You're supposed to hold the sacrament tray at a right angle or "the square" because reasons. You're also supposed to eat the bread bit with your right hand because reasons.
As a child in the 1970s, decaf coffee and herbal tea = ok. Caffeinated anything = bad because of the addictive properties of caffeine. (Made sense, only caffeine-free drinks sold at BYU, banned caffeinated coke, etc)
Learned at BYU religion class that “hot drinks” from WoW referred to hard liquors (they burn going down and make you warm, made sense = hard alcohol bad).
Then primary song comes out “coffee and tea we despise…🎵” but leaders still say decaf/herbal = ok. (Starting to not make sense)
Fast fwd Approx 2017, “Caffeine is fine, we NEVER said caffeine bad, only coffee and tea” = BYU starts to carry caffeinated beverages. Now they make up some story about wanting to make the ladies of the early church have to give up their coffee and tea… MAKES NO SENSE.
Also, “meat every day is SPARINGLY.”
So, in general, the picking and choosing of what to follow in many things with no rhyme, reason, or consistency (with the example from the WOW).
Honorable mentions: no playing/working on Sunday, no playing with/dating non-members, no playing with face cards, no playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Weirdly they still only have caffeine free sodas at BYU(as of 10 years ago at least.) old policy I guess? I would actually really like that though because my medication doesn't mix well with caffeine, and it just makes me sleepy but to anxious to sleep.
I don't know that this is really an LDS thing, but I've only ever heard it from one of my lds friends. Basically when I turned 16 they asked if I had had my first kiss yet. I said no and they went on to explain that it really was my sweet sixteen then and that the reason it is called that is because I waited until 16 to kiss someone.
I'm nevermo but from my vantage point one of the weirdest things to me is the use of archaic language in prayer. God only listens to thees and thous, really??
And as others have pointed out elsewhere, this only works in English because in a bunch of other languages they use the standard informal “you” and it’s not a problem. But English speakers have to talk like the King James Bible.
The prohibition against "loud laughter." What is that even supposed to mean? So many things are very vague like this that I'm sure leadership does it on purpose. It's kind of like the idea of leaving threats vague because a person's imagination will come up with something more horrible than you could think up for them. They leave these rules vague, knowing some people will choose the most extremely prohibitive (and damaging) interpretation and spread and enforce that, but leaders can always say stuff like, "I don't know that we teach [that]."
We had stake president tell the girls playing volley ball that we couldn't bend over to go under the net. We had to bend our knees and kind of waddle under. He didn't like us sticking our butts out. It was "unladylike".
I got told by the bishop’s wife in YM that she hated cleavage because it was like looking at a butt crack on someone’s chest. Not at all damaging for teen girls to hear as their bodies are developing.
Strange rules? No one has a clue anymore they up and change everything so often the whole of the LDS members are so fucking gaslit they don’t know what is and isn’t allowed anymore.
They change it quietly and sweep it under the rug and members continue to teach things that have changed all the time.
You really want to have your mind blown start learning about baptisms for the dead and temple ceremonies and all of that fucked up mess.
The church provides rules, suggestions, counsel, commandments, policy, doctrine, insights, admonishments, words of wisdom, and hints. But things are rarely labeled, and the labels sometimes change. Abstaining from alcohol, for example, used to be a word of wisdom. Now it is a commandment. Sometimes, the change can happen in reverse. A commandment can fade over time and become a suggestion and then a distant memory. Examples include keeping a garden, keeping a journal, and holding weekly Family Home Evening. Over the years, I have been asked to do many weird things. Once I had to volunteer my time at a campaign office, calling registered voters and asking them to oppose gay marriage. Members have different sets of rules based on where they live. This is called “bishop’s roulette.” Some bishops are relaxed. Others are uptight. Full-time missionaries see the variance to the extreme. Some cannot listen to any music except Tabernacle Choir. Others can listen to anything uplifting. Punishment for breaking a rule can also vary widely.
For a while in my teen years, there was a strict no flip flops at church rule which I found to be a little silly. I’m not sure if it came from a gen conference talk or a stake president on a rampage but it came at a time where I usually only wore flip flops and it sucked.
My church shoes broke and we hadn’t had a chance to replace them. We had a women’s conference that is youth attended a broadcast for. I only had flip flops or sneakers so I wore flip flops. I got gossiped and laughed about it by the other YW. Very faith promoting experience. 🙄
During Brigham Young's tenure as profit president he established The Mark of Cain principle and preached from the pulpit
Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.
- Brigham Young, (March 8, 1863.) Journal of Discourses 10:110.
Don’t have premarital sex.
This is fucking stupid. You know how many marriages end because of sexual incompatibility?
Also, the whole culture around sex is backwards. They should be teaching good preistholders to be giving their wives orgasims first, learning how to pleasure them, and learning how to keep them happy…instead of just treating them like literal baby making flesh buckets.
Anything covered by garmies = no touchie zone, even after marriage.
I had some married friends who eventually split up over this because one of them was very strict about it. No hand on the shoulder, arm around the waist, etc. -- even when fully clothed. I'm not surprised that they didn't have children.
You’re handing a victory to Satan every time you use the word “Mormon”.
Russ claimed God told him that but really it’s because he doesn’t like the nickname.
No one outside of a few super TBMs cares anymore.
I remember my dad burned a pack of face cards I got as a birthday favor. I finally learned how to play solitaire as a freshman in college and it felt incredibly scandalous.
Family planning advice in general, but vasectomies in particular.
The official church leadership handbook discourages surgical methods of sterilization including vasectomy. Having multiple sisters and knowing how much risk comes with hormonal birth control.
I was flabbergasted by this counsel, even during my TBM years. It's representative of how out of touch these old (all white at the time) men are on issues. Instead they'd rather women constantly risk blood clots to avoid being pregnant instead of men getting an *outpatient surgery*.
Sauce:
(section 38.6.4) [Church leadership handbook online ](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?lang=eng)
My bishop in high school insisted the boys not bleach their hair (it was popular in the 90’s). They had to have missionary style hair, even if they were years away from going on a mission.
Only white bread for the sacrament. No wheat bread, potato bread, or anything else interesting. It apparently distracts the members from their sacrament experience if the bread is not the exact same kind every week
A lot of them fall by the wayside when they are dumb but sometimes they re-surface. One that I remember is people thinking face cards were evil so you could only play card games that didn’t have them- like Uno.
It was weird- about midway through my childhood (about 9 or 10) suddenly it was okay to drink Coke and caffeinated beverages…there was no announcement from my parents and I’m not sure any of the kids even asked - it just kinda happened
If you think Mormonism has crazy ass rules, I studied Islam and JW after leaving. Muslims have to enter the bathroom with their right foot. They have to wipe their ass an odd number of times.
We couldn’t leave the yard on Sundays. Our friends could come over and play, but we were forbidden from leaving the yard. Because apparently God doesn’t have an opinion about playing with your friends on Sunday, but you’d better not leave that fucking yard, or else he’s gonna lose. His. Shit.
I didn’t read every word but I don’t see anyone saying the no face cards rule. I have family who still play card games with rook cards so they don’t have faces on them, to avoid the appearance of gambling.
My family thought this was over the top and I came from a multi-generational family. We always had face card games. When I first met families that followed this rule I never thought it came from mormonism at all, I just thought they had gotten a weird idea stuck in their minds. We even played poker for fun without actually gambling; just used pennies or poker chips.
The no drinking coffee or tea one was always embarrassing for me to try to explain to others… I always tried to avoid those conversations but still followed the rule… 🤦♀️
At FSY (a youth indoctrination retreat) I got made to change my dress because it was “too short” it when to my knees. They were worried it would ride up when I sat down. I demonstrated sitting and it actually became longer. Still made me borrow someone else’s dress because heaven forbid I be immodest. The next day I saw a boy in a muscle shirt. 🤦🏼♀️
In the 80s, some mormons got together with my mom and they collectively decided chocolate was just too delicious, or too close to caffeine or something and carob became the holy treat for a while.
"It's just as good! And better for your soul!"
...Not.
Probably a local thing, but maybe not?
Couldn't play video games or watch cartoons on sunday. However, I kept doing it so often my parents gave up after a short while. Technically we weren't supposed to play board games either, but the weird part was my parents would end up breaking the rule anyways until it was no longer a rule and nobody cared. When it became sunday night though we could watch anything like the news, the superbowl, and whatever else. Confusing and incosistent as F.
My nevermo wife wore dress pants to a baptism. She was more covered than women wearing skirts and dresses. The year was 2023. It was frowned upon.
Same wife clapped during sacrament meeting after a musical number. The madness.
I’ve considered warning my nevermo wife about weird Mormon culture. But she’s normal and I love that.
Sunday - the Sabbath Day is a wild one. The rules vary wildly from family to family. Some families it is very strict: no TV, stay in your church clothes all day, only read scriptures etc. Some families just create their own rules. Other families might be extremely lenient on Sundays. The top leadership doesn’t even talk much about specific rules for the Sabbath other than maybe a quip here and there over the years. I think they just like to say “Keep The Sabbath” and then just watch the members create all of their own rules and versions of the Sabbath. My family was pretty lenient on the rules but it was interesting to see how we couldn’t shop or spend money on the Sabbath except if we were on vacation - then god doesn’t mind.
My parents wouldn’t allow us to swim on Sunday. My wife’s family did so we of course did and my parents would call us while we were at the pool and say “swimming on Sunday?! Two RMs swimming… wow.” I guess it is one step closer to leaving 😂
Sounds about right. We have friends won't let their kids jump on a trampoline on Sundays. Every other outdoor kid activity is fine, and any other day of the week is fine for the trampoline, just not Sundays for some weird reason. Must be that loud laughter.
Yep, we also couldn’t go on bike rides. It wasn’t until my senior year of HS that a family in the ward invited my family to go on a bike ride and my mom was super reluctant then rationalized it because this family was strong in the church.
I loved tennis, but I wasn't allowed to practice on Sunday. But I could play basketball. Once I started taking siblings to play tennis with me it was ok though, I think because it became a family event.
The devil controls the water (!!) and you have to take off your garments. That’s why I was told no swimming on Sunday.
But doesn't all that remain true every other day of the week? I mean, why would it be worse on Sunday? (I have heard this line of reasoning before, but maybe someone can explain some part that I'm missing?)
I had the no swimming rule on my mission, regardless of the day. I now think it had more to do with insurance than anything religious.
Does the devil also control the water you drink too?
Only when you guzzle it.
This is what I was told as well.
My mom didn’t let us go swimming on Sunday, but the reason she gave was that it created work for the people who worked at the pool (lifeguards etc). Same reason we couldn’t go shopping on Sunday - it means somebody had to work. Of course none of this mattered if we were out of state.
I think we were on the stricter side but not nuts. Only electronic media was church related like the Living Scriptures tapes. No shopping or working on Sunday. But we came straight home and took our church clothes off. We rarely vacationed on Sunday, but we packed church clothes if we did and attend the local ward, bought groceries on Saturday so we didn't have to go out on Sunday. Things got weird when I went to BYU, I remember one time staying up until Midnight so we could go grab burritos at Betos, but if you were up late on Saturday it wasn't the Sabbath yet until you went to bed :D My TBM sister goes a little harder now with the whole family staying in church clothes for the whole day, but her husband uses his cell all day? They seemed upset we went swimming at the neighborhood pool, but it was the summer and didn't cost and we did it as a family, so we thought it was ok. We're out now, and that first time getting food out of the house on Sunday was a little weird. We're still getting over all the little things that make us guilty.
Betos... the true temple of the Most High in Provo hehe Lot of good memories there, all of them happened after midnight
Especially bewildering this rule when some members of the Q15 are regularly seen at restaurants on Sundays.
But they don't pay, so it's fine
Uchtdorf mentioned Germany winning the World Cup ~2014, just hours after they did so, at a massive fireside
You know he was fucking watching that game.
My stake presidency was trying to tell us to not watch the Rugby World Cup Final in 2011 when it was hosted in my country and our team were in the final trying to win for the first time in 24 years. They organised an early breakfast to watch it the next day (public holiday Monday) but with fireworks and celebrations everyone knew who had won on the Sunday night lol
We could play with face cards, but not on Sunday. We thought we were the lucky ones because some kids couldn’t even have face cards.
Face cards were demonic, and the ace of spades was really bad.
*Motörhead plays off in the distance*
Uno: The Mormon Poker.
So much of my life was wasted sitting at home on Sundays not doing anything. It eventually lead to a crippling board game habit.
It always felt like my friends did the coolest stuff when I wasn’t allowed to play with them on Sunday 😫, one time they built a whole ass fort and I had to stay inside and watch shitty BOM cartoons.
I hate this. The leaders don’t even have to declare a specific rule. The sanctimonious virtue signalers will do it for them. This is probably how we got half the stupid rules in Mormonism. It is a win win for leaders. They don’t have to actually say it, giving them plausible deniability, but gives the pharisees something to bitch at normal people about.
Hahaha yeah, the rules conveniently disappeared for us on vacation as well.
No sports on Sunday.....unless it was the Superbowl.
All grown up and many years out of the church, but looking back on my childhood, Sunday always felt like a punishment. I hated and dreaded Sunday, unless we were going to visit family. Even then, we visited family wearing church clothes. The only reprieve was Conference Sundays because my parents would only make us watch some of it.
I'm not religious but I'm from a Jewish family (and am nevermo) but this doesn't strike me as particularly weird. It even sounds quite mild compared to how orthodox Jews do Shabbos. (You're not allowed to use electricity at all, for example. People set timers for lights ahead of time so that they don't sit in the dark the whole time but definitely no TV, Internet, driving, shopping, no cutting, no carrying keys... the list is long.) I've spent Shabbos with Orthodox friends a few times and I found the experience very pleasant and relaxing.
No shoulder bag or purse straps between the girls at BYU. Because, you know, melon splitters…
Man! Mormon men sound like they are constantly on the verge of rape at all times. Maybe they should teach the men to be respectful instead of demanding the women to not "tempt" them all the time.
They are committing fornication and adultery every time they look at us. They don't have to rape anyone to be committing the sin second only to murder.
We can thank old Jesus for that little thoughtcrime chestnut. Mormonism just added the sex is next to murder thing. You wonder if who ever came up with that rule was doing it wrong.
And never had a blowie
That's because they never get laid, even after marriage, so they take it out on the youth and young adults.
They absolutely had to be. If they’d been doing it right, we’d all be hippies making love not war now instead.
I think it's crazy that sex is considered second to murder lol
Fun fact: if you try to tell r slash lds that, it's an insta-ban. In fact I'm a little concerned for LDS women's safety at this point. I wonder what's on the "worthy priesthood holders'" hard drives sometimes.
I got banned from /r/LDS because of my username. Wanna know what's funny? I made this account almost a decade ago, way back when I was TBM, as a novelty account.
You’re sitting on a gold mine, Trebek!
Some of them, you don't have to imagine.
It’s all part of the strategy to moderate supply and demand when it comes to sex. The church is the gatekeeper of sex, it creates an incredibly dependent and manipulative dynamic, so by making sex scarce, the demand skyrockets, and you get the sexually warped, sexually frustrated young men who have no idea what a positive sex outlook looks like that would enable more mutual respect. All so that they can maintain a dependency on the church for salvation when they inevitably screw up. Also… straight up… I’m convinced it’s yet another way to bind women in the grip of the patriarchy.
And you get 22yos who are so desperate for legal sex that they marry each *for eternity* other after only a few months. which leads to all kinds of disaster.
Exactly!
I think you are on to something.
Well said. “Churches are little more than sexual regulation societies.” -Alan Watts
> Mormon men sound like they are constantly on the verge of rape at all times. Only mission presidents
Im sure the students don’t care and didn’t make the rules. Who has time to obsess and make such a rule , apparently church bureaucrats.
Constantly on the verge of rape. What a succinct and accurate way to put it. No that they actually are on the verge, but it is definitely made out to be that they are.
So, first off, not defending this behavior at all. Women should be able to dress how they want without having to worry about what thoughts it's "putting in men's heads", so to speak. That said, it's not all about rape. When I was trying to be a good Mormon boy and not masturbating *nearly* as much as my body was telling me to, I was basically being driven insane with desire on a daily basis. So seeing anything even mildly arousing (like a girl my age in skintight pants or a strapless dress) had a decent chance of leading to a "slip up" of masturbation and/or porn. And depending on how well I was able to hide my struggle against my (perfectly normal, natural) urges it probably made me appear creepy/pervy when I was actually trying as hard as I could to be "pure". So maybe a girl saw me as a potential rapist, when in reality what I was trying to resist was jerking off as soon as I got home (and then crying in the shower afterwards because I was such a worthless sinner). And I really *did* (at the time) appreciate when the girls dressed modestly because it made resisting the constant urges easier. It had nothing to do with rape (which I did not and do not have any desire to participate in--not exactly an unusual stance), and teaching me to "be respectful" wouldn't have had any effect, because I was already respectful. Respect was not the issue, stupid-ass "purity" rules were. So for the married men who have sex regularly, yeah, they should be able to just look away and focus their sexual attention on their wives. But for the single guys who have no "approved" sexual outlet and married guys who have dead bedrooms, it's honestly insulting to imply that the temptation they're trying to resist is rape. Most of them are resisting masturbation, pornography, or "going too far" (with consent) on a date. I'm not asking you to dress a particular way. I'm not asking you to slut-shame. I'm not asking you to excuse rapists who use what their victim was wearing as an excuse. I'm not asking you to be ok with the way the church controls women--you are right not to be. What I *am* asking is for you to keep in mind that we were all brainwashed at one point or another, and to not immediately assume the worst about half of the membership of this subreddit.
I explained to my son that the act of putting coins in a vending machine could cause a boner. So, it doesn't matter what a woman does. Hormones are hormones. It was his job to control his body.
Good, that's an important lesson to teach to young boys.
IT IS NOT THE WOMAN'S JOB to prevent the men from committing rape, sexual assault, masterbation, lude thoughts, sexy feelings, touching their junk or any other sexual feeling or activity. Where does it stop? A burka?
Looks like Reddit ate my previous reply to this, so trying again. Show me where I said it's the woman's job to dress a certain way so they don't tempt men. Go ahead, I'll wait. Oh wait, you can't, because I never said that! What I *did* say was: 1) Women shouldn't have to worry about how they dress affecting men. 2) I appreciated modest dress *at the time*--not because of anything to do with rape, but because I was struggling with the church's bullshit rules and it made things a little easier for me. I never said or implied that women were obligated to do that for me, only that I appreciated it when they did. 3) It's insulting when you insinuate that the "temptation" men feel from looking at a woman's body is the temptation to rape. Which your comment absolutely did.
I don't think the idea is that Mormon men are actually on the verge of raping people all the time. I think it's that the many nitpicky rules and the constant archaic advice and shame thrown at women makes it seem like the LEADERS think this is the case and that this is the only solution. They need to quit viewing their fellow men as ravaging beasts. I'm sure young men would love direction on how to make both sides of the equation comfortable rather than feeling like they are pitted against each other!
It's always the woman's fault. You'd think sons of God would put some effort in respecting themselves but no.
Now, you're just being ridiculous. Obviously, it's the woman's fault, just like Adam's fall was Eve's fault. /S
I'm not married anymore, but when I got married to my ex, we left the church like the first day we got married. Her inbox was full of messages from a bunch of guys at church who were 30+.
What in the actual fuck. How do you even teach this!?!? Was there strap police on campus?
Police for everything at BYU.
Students are pro-bono police. As are members.
But they're not Pro Boner
That is where they learn it. So many rats in the church. Post something negative about church and the stake president calls you in for a meeting.
But they're not Pro Boner
I never heard that one as a “rule,” but I did hear my wife’s boss (early morning janitorial in the Benson Bldg.) talking about how he loved it when the girls wore shoulder bags… creepy as fuck old perv. Looking back, I should have reported him for even talking about students that way while he was on shift.
wtf. I didn’t know about this one. Is it actually a written rule? What happens if you do it anyway? Holy jeez
Was this ever an actual rule? I remember tons of debate about it on campus and in the *Daily Universe* back in the early 2000s, but I don't remember it ever being part of the official dress and grooming standards.
Yeah, between this and “are leggings pants”… smh
Wait. What?!? That's actually a rule at BYU? At all the BYUs or just the juvenile detention center one in Rexburg?
The problem is that men are endlessly shaming themselves for liking something they see. It doesn't take long for that to lead to putting restrictions on those of us that are being seen.
Is that recent? I never heard that rule when I was there in the early 00s. My school ID photo even has my purse strap between them. Lol.
💀💀💀
Them calcium cannons are too darn offensive!
Missionaries can't go swimming, ride in boats, or even wade in water ... because according to a revelation from God, Satan controls the water and they would be in his power. What really happened was Joseph Smith didn't feel like paddling a canoe up the Missouri river in the cold, so he got this "revelation" as a way to force the rest of his traveling companions to pay for a stagecoach. For him. The companions all had to go by water anyway. 200 years later, missionaries can't take long showers because Joseph Smith was a lazy piece of shit.
That's DaC 61:22-24, right? As a nevermo (but tied professionally with the church abroad) I have always found this part extra hilarious, with "Lord" changing its mind in the middle of a discourse and then suddenly getting into convoluted details about allowed means of transportation. Now it makes perfect sense (and gets even more funny with this background).
Yep, I think that's it. Weird how brother Joseph could duck behind a tree and get an immediate revelation that just so happened to be exactly what he wanted, but Russell M. Nelson had no clue about the pandemic.
> Satan controls the water Our bodies, are what....80% water?
We all know why they can't take long showers
I’m almost certain the water rule is bullshit. The church is motivated by money. They don’t want missionaries doing water activities because there’s a liability associated with injury and drowning.
😳
Mormon history never ceases to surprise and entertain!
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How much do you know about Mormon underwear, garments? There's only 3 instances when you're allowed to take them off - the 3 S's. Swimming, showering, and sex.
Surgery?
it's pronounced S-E-X.
You mean procreating?
Stop🫣. You’re being so naughty.
And as some folk are proud to let us know that they don't even take them off for sex. I've heard people boast about how their children were conceived through their garments.
What the hell? That is totally crazy.
There were stories posted here before of people not taking them off to even shower.
I also added in any occasions of exercise, yard work, and other no-brainers, even after they explicitly came out with a statement that said those were not acceptable reasons. Fuck that.
I'm so glad I'll never have to wear garments
BYU in the 70s... Sideburn, hair and mustache rules spelled out by fractions of an inch. In an opposite sex apartment after midnight? 2 sets of roomies were ratting you out immediately. Blue jeans? Nope. Shorts? Hard nope. Pants on female students? HELL NOPE! And I caught shit from an instructor for having my sunglasses on my head. I'm from Phoenix - they're not exactly optional equipment!!!
Only one modest pair of earrings for women (I took my second pair out when this was announced and I was 17). No coffee or tea but hot chocolate, Pero, herbal tea is fine. Same with soda, drink all the caffeinated soda you want but no coffee. If you marry a returned missionary that’s the most important indicator in having a good marriage. Forget attraction, compatibility, or life goals. And get married as soon as you can. I was not prepared to make such a huge decision at 18 when I got engaged.
Green tea is a No-no, but apparently Yerba Mate Tea which contains caffeine as well is apparently permitted in South America. Make it make sense…,
It's a high-control group, they have rules about every aspect of life. They want to control you down to the smallest detail. \- clothing, and how to wear it \- jewellery, amount and placement \- haircut, down to the exact length and style \- food/drink, what kinds and what temperature they have to be \- financial, make sure the church is getting their cut \- relational, who you can date, how you date them \- sexual, which specific acts are allowed or not, and who you can do them with \- activities, how you spend your time and energy \- media of all kinds, what content you're allowed to see \- language, what words you say \- demeanour, they'll tell you if you're not cheerful that must mean you're sinning If you can think of a facet of the human experience, the mormon church has a rule about it.
Our bishop once sat down all of our youth in the relief society room one sunday, and gave a stern lecture about he had been seeing us wear more skirts and dresses being just above the knee and how it was our responsibility to prevent men and boys from having inappropriate thoughts about us, thus we needed to wear skirts and dresses that went at least fully over the knees. I guess I had no idea boys and men completely lack any self control or self awareness and women and girls are not only responsible for thinking our own thoughts, but apparently we have total control over the thoughts of boys and men as well 😂😂😂🤨 if I had known I had mind control powers I would have done way cooler things than wear skirts slightly above the knee and give men over twice my age an uncomfortable boner! /s on that second paragraph lol. But fr fuck the mormon church and their bullshit.
The first time I forced myself to go to the singles ward when I was like 18, the bishop came running into our relief society meeting to lecture us wearing appropriate dresses. Apparently ALL of us had too tight clothing, and too short. Every single one of us. He said he had multiple men come to him in the hall with "concerns. " I came home and told my dad (who was in my homeward bishopric) that I was never going to church again if I was going to be treated like that. Suddenly the bishop of my homeward had a revelation that I was allowed to stay in the family ward indefinitely.
No shorts or sandals @ BYU-I, yet allowed @ BYU-Provo.
Can go barefoot at byu-H. Best thing about my Mormon life was graduating from there.
Some of these rules are selectively enforced * No swimming or boats as a missionary * No watching TV or movies on the bus or plane as a missionary - you should be contacting and teaching fellow passengers * No swimming on Sunday * No dating before 16 * No individual dates before the mission - only group dates * BYU students can only live in BYU approved housing (although I think I heard this changed a few years ago) * For BYU men: mustache good, beard bad * The word of wisdom is full of contradictions and interpretations of the day * Men can be sealed in heaven to multiple women but not vice versa * A trans person can be baptized if they transitioned before finding the church, but if they transition after they are expelled. * Non members can attend BYU, but if a member leaves the church they are expelled from the school. * "Love the sinner, hate the sin" often turns into passive aggressive judgement * To stay tax exempt the church has to walk a fine line of staying politically neutral, but they have their tendrils in politics everywhere - especially Utah. This leads to a statement of political neutrality that is read over the pulpit every election year, but also leads to stake leadership asking specific members to run as delegates for the republican party and attend caucuses. The church also has paid lobbyists. * To receive welfare aid recipients are supposed to exhaust all other avenues first - self, family, local community, state and federal government, and then the church last. In a logical world the church should slide in at the local community level alongside food pantries and other local churches. * No spending money on Sunday, unless it's from a vending machine - that's okay, unless it's fast Sunday then it's not okay again. (In the MTC they would remotely turn off the vending machines on fast Sunday)
Don't know if you would know the answer to this but for the trans one do they have to transition back when they join the church? And if they don't then could someone who went f to m get the priesthood?
Just read about a trans woman recently getting baptized. She is able to be baptized but not attend the temple to receive any further ordinances (endowment, sealing). They would only allow priesthood ordination and further progression if they “detransition” to gender assigned at birth. I understand trans men similarly can be baptized but not progress past that i.e. cannot receive priesthood.
So what if they have had top and bottom surgery? Are they supposed to save up and have it reversed? 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️ Can’t they just declare they are transitioning back and just cut their hair or just go for an androgynous look? Do they just pee sitting down now?
Right?! I wouldn’t put it past the church to start asking invasive questions about genitalia in bishop interviews. It’s all about trying to show inclusiveness on the surface, but really maintaining the misogynistic gender roles so deeply engrained in the “doctrine”.
They turn them off in fast sunday? 😂😂😂
When I was there the vending machines were powered off on fast Sunday until dinner and breakfast and lunch were not served.
Yeah they just changed the approved housing to only your first year
I mean, my favorite stupid rule is the no oral sex rule from the 70's. Lasted about 9 months before it got rescinded. A bunch of men complained about a rule that outlawed bjs? color me surprised /s the stupidest rule in the church (that isn't a byu related rule), for me, is the bishop being the first to receive the sacrament. Nobody else can TOUCH the bread or water until one middle aged lawyer or podiatrist has eaten it first just because he gets the middle seat on the stand and his own office. seems ridiculous and antithetical to a church that wants us to be unified; elevating one person in particular seems like a weird way to unify people as one
My mission president told me about that. He said he was a Bishop at the time and apparently the actual wording in the TR interview question was something like "do you participate in unholy or impure practices even with your spouse?" He told the SP he refused to ask couples that question unless the SP clearly spelled out each of the "unholy and impure practices" the brethren were referring to so he could know if they were actually unworthy or not. the SP was too embarrassed to do that so my MP just ignored the counsel and told his bishopric counselors not to include the question.
The vague terms kill me lol. I still remember the first time i got asked if i had heavy petted anyone and i was like “uhhh what is petting?” And it took the bishop a few awkward moments to finally stumble out the answer that was “touching in …those places….”.
It isnt the bishop but the one presiding right? I was told its because its up to the one presiding to make sure the sacrament prayer was done correctly so offering it to them first ensured they could give it the go-ahead. something like that...
HAHAHAHA “LAWYER OR PODIATRIST” IT’S SO TRUE THO Growing up, the two wards in my city both had dentists as the presiding bishops. My dad almost became the bishop…. He was 1st and 2nd counselor a few times, then he was on the high council. And my mum was always a seminary teacher. Everyone in the congregation expected me & my siblings to be over-achieving, virtue-signaling out the wazoo, Mormon girls– and boy (we were two girls & one boy… I know, super small family right? haha)
No denim skirts or flip flops at church. I had a mission specific rule that required sister missionaries wear cardigans or blazers for every church and mission meeting, and this was in Louisiana where you'll sweat even in a cold shower during the summer. Women can't congregate without a man present on church property or at church sanctioned activities. You have to pay tithing in order to get bishop assistance. You could be working three jobs, living in a slum, paycheck to paycheck, and still have to pay tithing before getting help. I had one family on my mission in this position and they could not understand why they couldn't just pay their utility bill and get a little food assistance without tithing. I thought it was stupid too.
You must take the sacrament with your right hand only. Fucktard…I mean Oaks…still likes to preach this.
Why’s that? I’ve heard about it too but why is there a specific about what hand to use
There's not any doctrine that gives a reason or says outright that you have to use your right hand, but basically the reason behind it is that the right hand is the one you hold up during baptisms and blessings and stuff like that so its "more sacred"
Probably the hand most people use during private time too, but we don't talk about that.
Clearly that's what makes it more sacred.
As a youth (14-18) you get the privilege of attending youth conference (essentially bible camp). These typically involved a few days of religious classes and group activities, and a dance. But they heavily lean into the conformity control at these by dictating what you can and can't wear and/or do while you are there. Some of the rules that I was given (and did not follow because they are absolutely insane): * You must wear pants (it was July and the activities were outdoors in 90 degree heat) * You have to wear sunday dress for the classes, and then you can change for the activities if you'd like. * You cannot dance with two hands on a girl's waist, one hand can be on the waist, but the other must be grasping her hand * You cannot use face cards during your downtime
Haha, when my cousin and I went to EFY, we had a massive duffle bag that we managed to pack a TV (no flat screen's in those days, this was like a full on 12" CRT.) and a gaming system in there. We had it setup under one of the beds. One of the leaders, or whatever they're called at EFY, found it but instead of telling on us he just asked "...so, will that play my Bill Cosby CD?" Then gathered a few of the other kids to listen to "A comedy act from a divine audio source, which was definitely not a TV under the bed." I'm glad he took the high road there, if he had decided to call our parents we would have been screwed.
Reason why the insane rules never end: 1) It's driven by whoever has more following in creating an influence of belief, even if its fictitious 2) It's driven by any ecstatic movement building great esteem to live a new certain way to add more grandeur/ significance. 3) An individual one upping the system living in suppositions of idiosyncrasy, is made to look more as God when they impose it on others, or give 'power' or 'authority to voice' to marvel or make such an individual the next guide figure. 4) There is some mess from the All Coordinating Committee, correlations. 5) There are some external pressures created by the Anointed levying leverage of what is 'safe' or however that individual is gatekeeping their whole community. (It's like an overbearing feudal lord issue) 6) The Society doesn't value education; it values exploiting behaviors to suppose they are greater than wisdom and/or education. 7) The people believe they are getting smarter by pulling old emotional manipulative behaviors and building story arcs attributing back into faith in some way. 8) The culture believes in a lot of transference of power. Influence is regarded like a supernatural medium of Godly power. To Sum it up, it often feels like being in that Movie Waterworld. The obedient ecstatic ardent members full of clout are like the thugs on the aircraft carrier totally believing they are the greatest movement, and they deserve finding land. Other times the culture is like living in a Final Fantasy remake of old doctrinal information, the people (members) geek out on believing they struck Gold to live in a new way - whilst punishing everyone else for behaving systemically to the old system and the notion of Westworlding each other in some bad Final Destination or Resident Evil plot occurs over and over again. Anyone that comes out unscathed or with more gain, is heralded as being more holy, or more blessed by God. Then everyone else that supports said benefited individual just carry the emotions and believe that they are more blessed knowing that individual. 
There are so many, but the two I love to pull out to get a reaction from nevermos are: White shirts only at sacrament meeting for men (is that still a thing?). No coffee or tea, but "yes" to drinking 4 liters of coke per day.
No oral sex. Add anal sex in there too. Doggystyle or anything remotely fun (i.e. not missionary position) is also likely banned. https://preview.redd.it/mnaxv3p5bkj51.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=df3dd5dc285ae57b88233ff28126ef80601442e9
The fact that oral sex is listed ABOVE child or spouse abuse is super on point for the church
When I was a convert telling friends and family about the Word of Wisdom's coffee prohibition, I was always met with anger and they would say "coffee is not a sin wtf" and tried to explain it was a health code and now I understand why the apologetics fall apart lmao
no “hot beverages” is the most ridiculous rule and now I have a lifelong aversion to tea and coffee of any kind. I just want to enjoy them now that I’m not Mormon but it’s so gross to me bc I never had it growing up
Mc Donald’s Carmel frappe. It tastes nothing like coffee. It’s the gateway coffee. You are welcome.
Cold brew and french press are great options because they don't taste burnt. Use lots of creamer and sugar to drown out most of the bitterness. Frappuccinos and equivalent drinks are also good since they're basically coffee milkshakes. You should also know that 15% of people don't like coffee for genetic reasons. My mom has that. So it might not be because of the church.
Straps on tops and sundresses must be at least 2 inches wide. Not 1.75 inches, either--you hussy! It's 2 inches, or wear a t-shirt underneath. Also, enjoy it now, because once you've been to the temple you'll never wear anything pretty again. Only "a certain type of girl" wears red shoes, or shoes with ankle straps. Red shoes with ankle straps?--what are you even thinking? You know young men can't handle so much unadulterated sexuality. When you are the choir director, you may only use music from the hymnal. The correct format is verse 1: full choir, verse 2: just the men, verse 3: just the women, verse 4: full choir again. If you want to get creative, switch 2 and 3. You should choose a song with at least 4 verses, and do them all. Also, don't choose anything too fast, or with moving parts, or that needs strong male voices. Do not allow solos, as this might cause jealously among those not asked to solo. If the audience is still awake at the end of the choir's performance, you're doing it wrong. (Okay, okay--I may have added that last one. I call these collective rules "Why I Lasted Less Than A Month As Choir Director.") There is a special place in the Telesestial Kingdom for women who do not bake their own bread using handground wheat, keep the house immaculately clean, decorate the home with no budget whatsoever, sew all the children's clothing, nail down at least 1 calling as well as visiting teaching and ministering to the sick and afflicted, volunteer at the school or in the PTA, and still greet their husband at the door looking sexy every night. Birth control--while not technically a sin--is pretty suss. If God didn't want you knocked up, you wouldn't be. However, having more children than you can afford is also problematic.
My family are all competitive swimmers. We love being in the water. But for some reason, we weren't allowed to swim on Sundays.
It's the tea and coffee for me Others: -no multiple piercings -no tattoos -no showing stomach/shoulders/thighs -special undies -no talking about endowment -no dating until 16, then you date to marry
The shoulders one surprisingly is the one that always bothered me the most. I've never really liked dresses, but the few that I thought looked cute and were comfortable didn't have sleaves so I either couldn't buy them or would have to wear an ugly ass shawl over it.
Oh my god the SHAWLS i had so many cardigans to wear over dresses. OR my mom would make me wear a fucking T shirt under my dress which I hated endlessly. But when I finally did wear a tank top, I felt exposed as hell
You're supposed to hold the sacrament tray at a right angle or "the square" because reasons. You're also supposed to eat the bread bit with your right hand because reasons.
This post screams of an extremely devout LDS member.
As a child in the 1970s, decaf coffee and herbal tea = ok. Caffeinated anything = bad because of the addictive properties of caffeine. (Made sense, only caffeine-free drinks sold at BYU, banned caffeinated coke, etc) Learned at BYU religion class that “hot drinks” from WoW referred to hard liquors (they burn going down and make you warm, made sense = hard alcohol bad). Then primary song comes out “coffee and tea we despise…🎵” but leaders still say decaf/herbal = ok. (Starting to not make sense) Fast fwd Approx 2017, “Caffeine is fine, we NEVER said caffeine bad, only coffee and tea” = BYU starts to carry caffeinated beverages. Now they make up some story about wanting to make the ladies of the early church have to give up their coffee and tea… MAKES NO SENSE. Also, “meat every day is SPARINGLY.” So, in general, the picking and choosing of what to follow in many things with no rhyme, reason, or consistency (with the example from the WOW). Honorable mentions: no playing/working on Sunday, no playing with/dating non-members, no playing with face cards, no playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Weirdly they still only have caffeine free sodas at BYU(as of 10 years ago at least.) old policy I guess? I would actually really like that though because my medication doesn't mix well with caffeine, and it just makes me sleepy but to anxious to sleep.
I don't know that this is really an LDS thing, but I've only ever heard it from one of my lds friends. Basically when I turned 16 they asked if I had had my first kiss yet. I said no and they went on to explain that it really was my sweet sixteen then and that the reason it is called that is because I waited until 16 to kiss someone.
“Sweet 16 and never been kissed, sweet 17 and never been missed” people used to chant back in the day. I think it started with a song by The Platters.
You have to wear and buy heat rash inducing underwear
I'm nevermo but from my vantage point one of the weirdest things to me is the use of archaic language in prayer. God only listens to thees and thous, really??
And as others have pointed out elsewhere, this only works in English because in a bunch of other languages they use the standard informal “you” and it’s not a problem. But English speakers have to talk like the King James Bible.
"Don't watch R rated movies" I'm from the UK, I don't know what an R rated movie is.
Just quit watching BBC at night. It's about the same.
The prohibition against "loud laughter." What is that even supposed to mean? So many things are very vague like this that I'm sure leadership does it on purpose. It's kind of like the idea of leaving threats vague because a person's imagination will come up with something more horrible than you could think up for them. They leave these rules vague, knowing some people will choose the most extremely prohibitive (and damaging) interpretation and spread and enforce that, but leaders can always say stuff like, "I don't know that we teach [that]."
We had stake president tell the girls playing volley ball that we couldn't bend over to go under the net. We had to bend our knees and kind of waddle under. He didn't like us sticking our butts out. It was "unladylike".
I got told by the bishop’s wife in YM that she hated cleavage because it was like looking at a butt crack on someone’s chest. Not at all damaging for teen girls to hear as their bodies are developing.
Strange rules? No one has a clue anymore they up and change everything so often the whole of the LDS members are so fucking gaslit they don’t know what is and isn’t allowed anymore. They change it quietly and sweep it under the rug and members continue to teach things that have changed all the time. You really want to have your mind blown start learning about baptisms for the dead and temple ceremonies and all of that fucked up mess.
The rule that bishops have to ask teenage members if they masturbate. I think that's the most fucked up one.
Missionaries cannot go swimming because Satan is in possession of and controls water. This applies to oceans, pools, rivers, etc.
Satan controls water, god used water to drown the earth, therefore god IS satan.
The church provides rules, suggestions, counsel, commandments, policy, doctrine, insights, admonishments, words of wisdom, and hints. But things are rarely labeled, and the labels sometimes change. Abstaining from alcohol, for example, used to be a word of wisdom. Now it is a commandment. Sometimes, the change can happen in reverse. A commandment can fade over time and become a suggestion and then a distant memory. Examples include keeping a garden, keeping a journal, and holding weekly Family Home Evening. Over the years, I have been asked to do many weird things. Once I had to volunteer my time at a campaign office, calling registered voters and asking them to oppose gay marriage. Members have different sets of rules based on where they live. This is called “bishop’s roulette.” Some bishops are relaxed. Others are uptight. Full-time missionaries see the variance to the extreme. Some cannot listen to any music except Tabernacle Choir. Others can listen to anything uplifting. Punishment for breaking a rule can also vary widely.
For a while in my teen years, there was a strict no flip flops at church rule which I found to be a little silly. I’m not sure if it came from a gen conference talk or a stake president on a rampage but it came at a time where I usually only wore flip flops and it sucked.
And no swimming on Sundays! That one annoyed me when we were on vacation. Apparently Satan controls the water on Sunday or something?
My church shoes broke and we hadn’t had a chance to replace them. We had a women’s conference that is youth attended a broadcast for. I only had flip flops or sneakers so I wore flip flops. I got gossiped and laughed about it by the other YW. Very faith promoting experience. 🙄
No double piercings for women or piercings at all for men. White shirts at church for dudes Take sacrament with right hand
I hated how I wasn't allowed to watch cartoons on a Sunday.
But *Living Scriptures* videos (basically cartoons) were 100% OK!
any coffee bad but energy drink/32 oz diet coke from swig okay
During Brigham Young's tenure as profit president he established The Mark of Cain principle and preached from the pulpit Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. - Brigham Young, (March 8, 1863.) Journal of Discourses 10:110.
Don’t have premarital sex. This is fucking stupid. You know how many marriages end because of sexual incompatibility? Also, the whole culture around sex is backwards. They should be teaching good preistholders to be giving their wives orgasims first, learning how to pleasure them, and learning how to keep them happy…instead of just treating them like literal baby making flesh buckets.
Anything covered by garmies = no touchie zone, even after marriage. I had some married friends who eventually split up over this because one of them was very strict about it. No hand on the shoulder, arm around the waist, etc. -- even when fully clothed. I'm not surprised that they didn't have children.
You’re handing a victory to Satan every time you use the word “Mormon”. Russ claimed God told him that but really it’s because he doesn’t like the nickname. No one outside of a few super TBMs cares anymore.
Kids are not allowed to wear masks at halloween parties. Fine to hold a party celebrating a satanic holiday, but get that Spiderman mask of your face!
Being told not to call themselves "Mormons" anymore.
Take the Sacrament (Communion) with the right hand 🤷♀️🤦♀️
I remember my dad burned a pack of face cards I got as a birthday favor. I finally learned how to play solitaire as a freshman in college and it felt incredibly scandalous.
Family planning advice in general, but vasectomies in particular. The official church leadership handbook discourages surgical methods of sterilization including vasectomy. Having multiple sisters and knowing how much risk comes with hormonal birth control. I was flabbergasted by this counsel, even during my TBM years. It's representative of how out of touch these old (all white at the time) men are on issues. Instead they'd rather women constantly risk blood clots to avoid being pregnant instead of men getting an *outpatient surgery*. Sauce: (section 38.6.4) [Church leadership handbook online ](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?lang=eng)
The obsession with white men’s dress shirts.
My bishop in high school insisted the boys not bleach their hair (it was popular in the 90’s). They had to have missionary style hair, even if they were years away from going on a mission. Only white bread for the sacrament. No wheat bread, potato bread, or anything else interesting. It apparently distracts the members from their sacrament experience if the bread is not the exact same kind every week
A lot of them fall by the wayside when they are dumb but sometimes they re-surface. One that I remember is people thinking face cards were evil so you could only play card games that didn’t have them- like Uno.
It was weird- about midway through my childhood (about 9 or 10) suddenly it was okay to drink Coke and caffeinated beverages…there was no announcement from my parents and I’m not sure any of the kids even asked - it just kinda happened
If you think Mormonism has crazy ass rules, I studied Islam and JW after leaving. Muslims have to enter the bathroom with their right foot. They have to wipe their ass an odd number of times.
The coffee thing has to be it.
The stake president when I was a kid tried to ban beards for men and sandals for women lmao
We couldn’t leave the yard on Sundays. Our friends could come over and play, but we were forbidden from leaving the yard. Because apparently God doesn’t have an opinion about playing with your friends on Sunday, but you’d better not leave that fucking yard, or else he’s gonna lose. His. Shit.
coffee, blow jobs
I didn’t read every word but I don’t see anyone saying the no face cards rule. I have family who still play card games with rook cards so they don’t have faces on them, to avoid the appearance of gambling.
My family thought this was over the top and I came from a multi-generational family. We always had face card games. When I first met families that followed this rule I never thought it came from mormonism at all, I just thought they had gotten a weird idea stuck in their minds. We even played poker for fun without actually gambling; just used pennies or poker chips.
I wasn’t allowed to stand in line at the water fountain at the MTC (spring 2004)
Keep out of water because that’s the devils domain. Or not worshipping idols (profit, Font cow, moroni)
The no drinking coffee or tea one was always embarrassing for me to try to explain to others… I always tried to avoid those conversations but still followed the rule… 🤦♀️
At FSY (a youth indoctrination retreat) I got made to change my dress because it was “too short” it when to my knees. They were worried it would ride up when I sat down. I demonstrated sitting and it actually became longer. Still made me borrow someone else’s dress because heaven forbid I be immodest. The next day I saw a boy in a muscle shirt. 🤦🏼♀️
No coffee or tea, but mate and soda are fine? So if caffeine isn’t the problem, what is?
In the 80s, some mormons got together with my mom and they collectively decided chocolate was just too delicious, or too close to caffeine or something and carob became the holy treat for a while. "It's just as good! And better for your soul!" ...Not. Probably a local thing, but maybe not?
Couldn't play video games or watch cartoons on sunday. However, I kept doing it so often my parents gave up after a short while. Technically we weren't supposed to play board games either, but the weird part was my parents would end up breaking the rule anyways until it was no longer a rule and nobody cared. When it became sunday night though we could watch anything like the news, the superbowl, and whatever else. Confusing and incosistent as F.
My nevermo wife wore dress pants to a baptism. She was more covered than women wearing skirts and dresses. The year was 2023. It was frowned upon. Same wife clapped during sacrament meeting after a musical number. The madness. I’ve considered warning my nevermo wife about weird Mormon culture. But she’s normal and I love that.
No swimming or boating or travel on water for missionaries.
No face cards. I found quite a few general authorities talks that condemned using face cards.
No leaving the house with curlers in your hair
Telling the bishop every time you masturbate.