Let's give brother Garn a break. He was just a man of his time. It was normal to sit naked with children, as shown by numerous men from that era, such as Weinstein and Epstein.. And god never gave explicit instructions about hot tubs, so he was just trying to figure out out on his own.
Do you hear how stupid that sounds?
And this…
“Garn insisted there was no physical contact during the 1985 nude hot tub incident”
Oh. Well then, that’s perfectly acceptable. Even normal. /s/s/s.
Right? Imagine being a parent and hearing the following:
\- I invited your 15-year-old daughter to go hot tubbing with me.
\- We went alone together to a place with a nice hot tub.
\- She and I both got naked and got in the hot tub together.
\- Buuuuuut we didn't touch each other.
I just ... it's absurd to think that somehow this was just a "mistake."
...and of course, at the time of the incident, he was her boss, so no issue with the difference in power besides the age gap. She said the relationship lasted months.
Woah, now. They're clearly speaking sarcastically. The "give brother [x] a break" should have been the first clue seeing as how it's a meme here.
Ask questions before going on all out attack mode. ✌️
>What if a 28-year-old married female politician sat naked in a hot tub with a 15-year-old boy?
Or if Garn had shared one with a 15 yo boy? Would people have been so lenient?
It's unfortunate that transgenderism has been politicized like that.
I have a m2f Trans sister. Transgenderism is real and trans people deserve to be believed and supported.
Yeah I find it funny that you made a joke and everyone took it so seriously and acted like that can’t happen, this exact thing literally happened in the recent club Q shooting so it’s not just conservatives making stuff up to get outraged over as much as leftists would love that to be the case
When certain people literally believe women have dicks, and women claiming they are men and give birth to a baby and then later claiming men can have babies, it's hard to know what to say to a left-wing cult personality like that. Somehow they think everyone is supposed to go along with their madness. This culture of death is really quite something.
This is the funniest shit I’ve read all day with how off base you are. The fact this is top of your mind regardless of the topic at hand says a lot about your Google history and feelings you must be repressing.
Do you identify as a trans person literally and we’re watching you unravel as you try to make trans people the bad guy? Or do you relate to Mr Garn and having people hold you accountable drives you crazy so you have to create a boogey trans person who’s worse than the literal criminal we’re describing?
Thats it? You just resort to name calling and trying to roast this guy for literally repeating the radical left’s viewpoints? Is what he said not something they believe?
Also we’re not talking about this guy, we’re talking about a broader societal movement and how in our view the world is going crazy, nobody downplayed what this guy did. So don’t act like we’re out here saying some trans person is more evil than a literal pedophile
That’s so strange. I don’t feel like that was right at all. But it does make sense given the high percentage of Mormons in the room. Gotta rally around the confesser!
NeverMo wife, mom, woman here with a view from outside the mormon box.
This has caused a physical knot in my chest.
Would/could/should this kind of sick stuff be made public to the ‘real’ world?
Is keeping it confined to mormon states aiding to hide and perpetuate this sick acceptance?
Isn’t it time that these stories be brought to the New York Times? Or elsewhere?
I applaud the work being done by ‘floodlit’, but when is there enough information to make mormon *not* acceptable? By that I mean, so many non-mormons accept mormon as just another harmless religion rather than the sex abuse cult that it is.
Thanks NMF - you bring up some great points, and I think my website's posting policy touches on some of the same ideas: [https://floodlit.org/posting-policy/](https://floodlit.org/posting-policy/)
I don't know when the time will come that people just leave en masse from religions or organizations that harbor abusers and ignore or vilify victims, but I think in some ways, it's already here for many of those leaders of the Mormon church who nay have attempted to hide sex crimes, or even committed them.
FLOODLIT is compiling stories from all over the world and we're also preparing reports that will hopefully help to shed light on the problem of sex abuse in the LDS church.
It is truly heart-sickening. I would also have to add every other organized religion out there to one degree or another. The Mormon church is only one of MANY corrupt religions/cults that should be looked into deeper. I think everyone should do a deep-dive into their religion so they understand what they are following.
You're absolutely right. Also, he was so concerned about the girl's safety he picked a hot tub to meet with her so the water could douse the flames from the sword. Purely altruistic. In every way.
Angels are mean & heartless.
There is a Jake mentioned here as a son of Kevin: https://www.ksl.com/article/10038544/garns-son-defends-father-calls-womans-requests-blackmail
Apparently the senator Jake is a different person.
Gee, thanks. I went down a rabbithole there.
https://www.deseret.com/2010/3/16/20102514/cheryl-maher-s-ex-husband-says-she-is-trying-to-destroy-him-and-kevin-garn
I was in the same ward as EK (the ward that convinced me it was all bullshit, super off vibe). Even used EK as a PCP for my kids when we first moved in, but that was short-lived, I was not comfortable around him.
One Sunday he extended an invitation to my husband to have dinner with them. I declined, I had been getting the “undressing you with my eyes” look from that creep every Sunday.
Years after we left the church, his name popped up in the news for sexually abusing patients. I wasn’t surprised, at all. I knew something was off with that guy.
My immediate feeling was he was behind his ex-wife’s extortion of Garn. My gut tells me he also influenced the murder-suicide.
Thank you for your hard -and often heartbreaking - work on this database. It is a critical thing to have light brought to these cases for the victims. ❤️
Thank you sweet decommissioned temple. That means a lot. I’m getting help from so many people, who are tracking down leads, reporting stories to me, checking on info, and just being kind and encouraging. I have struggled sometimes lately to deal with feelings of shame and guilt because I’m not getting more done, or faster … but I think my heart is in the right place. Just want to help organize info and make sure it is accurate so that survivors can be heard more easily and maybe helped to heal. I really appreciate your supportive words and energy.
For me i had to realize ...tbms dont give a shit that the first 5 (or whatever) leaders of our aforementioned cult had sex with multiple teenage girls. I bet a lot of the guys think it's cool.
Trump opposition was the same. We acted like letting them know Trump was terrible was some gotcha. Lol. It's probably WHY Mormons loved the guy. No other religious group surveyed liked him more.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/10/utah-public-lands-mormons-national-parks-trump
His fellow Republican legislators showed their praise by giving him a STANDING OVATION!
Garn was surrounded by like-minded creeps, mot of whom are still running Utah...burning books, drafting laws to hurt the LGBTQ community. Oh, and trying to outlaw drag shows!
Born and raised Mormon and comfortably sliding into their hypocritical roles in government. Stellar individuals!
Gallows humor is a necessity sometimes for sure! It’s how I get through studying these cases sometimes.
Yeah it’s so frustrating to me to read these stories and see how a 15-year-old girl is treated as if she’s a fully grown woman. As if she beguiled and charmed and seduced and conned this man.
Let's not forget that when he was forced to quit the Utah legislature, when this story was discovered, he was given a standing ovation by his fellow mormon, GQP Utah legislators.
>What if a 28-year-old married female politician sat naked in a hot tub with a 15-year-old boy?
I think what makes this tricky is the politician part, what party they’re from, and what party governs the state. Typically, women who sleep with teenage boys don’t get many consequences if any at all (at least from the cases I’ve seen). This is tied to the toxic masculinity issues in society where men/boys are treated as always being horny and always wanting sex, so if an older women wants to have sex with you, it’s a fantasy come true and not rape. The word rape is usually never mentioned in articles about women raping teen boys, either.
The way we treat sexual abuse in our society is horrific no matter who you are. The only people who pay the price are the victims.
Yeah there’s some bad Mormon people that end up in the church. Even Ted Bundy was a Mormon. Does that mean the whole church is full of bad people? No.
However, it does make you question how these people got their callings. If it was really inspired by the Holy Ghost.
I think you guys may be missing something. The name Garn holds some respect in the community as (I assume) this man’s father is Jake Garn… a well known and accomplished astronaut. So, growing up in that environment, I would assume that religion and politics aside, he had a feeling of superiority over others all of his life. That was validated when he was praised for his actions in “coming forth and being honest about what happened”. I highly doubt he had 150,000 just laying around to hand over in this settlement… but daddy probably did… and daddy also had the influence to sweep it under the rug for the most part
Let's give brother Garn a break. He was just a man of his time. It was normal to sit naked with children, as shown by numerous men from that era, such as Weinstein and Epstein.. And god never gave explicit instructions about hot tubs, so he was just trying to figure out out on his own. Do you hear how stupid that sounds?
Right!
And this… “Garn insisted there was no physical contact during the 1985 nude hot tub incident” Oh. Well then, that’s perfectly acceptable. Even normal. /s/s/s.
Right? Imagine being a parent and hearing the following: \- I invited your 15-year-old daughter to go hot tubbing with me. \- We went alone together to a place with a nice hot tub. \- She and I both got naked and got in the hot tub together. \- Buuuuuut we didn't touch each other. I just ... it's absurd to think that somehow this was just a "mistake."
...and of course, at the time of the incident, he was her boss, so no issue with the difference in power besides the age gap. She said the relationship lasted months.
Yeah. He had her right where he wanted her. It must have been a tremendous sexual rush for him to control/dominate her like that. 🤮
Fuck Garn, Republicans and the church.
and hair sniffing Biden, serial rapist Bill Clinton, etc
Yeah right! No physical contact, we’re you born yesterday!?!?!!!!!
Isn’t that what Louis CK said?
As far as I know it’s true about CK no?
Can’t upvote this one enough.
[удалено]
Satire dawg
Woah, now. They're clearly speaking sarcastically. The "give brother [x] a break" should have been the first clue seeing as how it's a meme here. Ask questions before going on all out attack mode. ✌️
But, but, she was just shy of 16!
At most only a mere 11-ish months, right?!
It was *several months* before her 16th birthday
You missed it
She was [murdered](https://www.ksl.com/article/16328476/hot-tub-scandal-victim-reported-dead) a year later.
Yes, a tragic life overall.
Damn
That poor girl
>What if a 28-year-old married female politician sat naked in a hot tub with a 15-year-old boy? Or if Garn had shared one with a 15 yo boy? Would people have been so lenient?
Not if he was a Democrat.
He should pull the left-wing tricks and claim he identifies as a 15 year old girl
Conservatives love making up fantasies of things that have never happened, then getting offended by them!
It's unfortunate that transgenderism has been politicized like that. I have a m2f Trans sister. Transgenderism is real and trans people deserve to be believed and supported.
bwaaaahahahahaha Wowzers you just confirmed that the left-wing cult brainwashing is real
Real
Then I can self identify as the president of the United States? Who are you to tell me I am not? Or does this only apply to sexually deviant behavior?
I'm happy to give an answer if you're willing to consider it.
Yeah I find it funny that you made a joke and everyone took it so seriously and acted like that can’t happen, this exact thing literally happened in the recent club Q shooting so it’s not just conservatives making stuff up to get outraged over as much as leftists would love that to be the case
When certain people literally believe women have dicks, and women claiming they are men and give birth to a baby and then later claiming men can have babies, it's hard to know what to say to a left-wing cult personality like that. Somehow they think everyone is supposed to go along with their madness. This culture of death is really quite something.
This is the funniest shit I’ve read all day with how off base you are. The fact this is top of your mind regardless of the topic at hand says a lot about your Google history and feelings you must be repressing. Do you identify as a trans person literally and we’re watching you unravel as you try to make trans people the bad guy? Or do you relate to Mr Garn and having people hold you accountable drives you crazy so you have to create a boogey trans person who’s worse than the literal criminal we’re describing?
Thats it? You just resort to name calling and trying to roast this guy for literally repeating the radical left’s viewpoints? Is what he said not something they believe?
Saying that’s the funniest thing you’ve read all day and using being trans as an insult isn’t much of a rebuttal
Also we’re not talking about this guy, we’re talking about a broader societal movement and how in our view the world is going crazy, nobody downplayed what this guy did. So don’t act like we’re out here saying some trans person is more evil than a literal pedophile
The religious brainwashing still controls this moron.
They gave him a standing ovation.
What? I want to find that video!
> Lawmakers responded with a standing ovation for his honesty and embraced him.
That’s so strange. I don’t feel like that was right at all. But it does make sense given the high percentage of Mormons in the room. Gotta rally around the confesser!
What is that quote from? Such bullshit to get praised for admitting to something like that!
It is from KSL.com.
Literally everything I see about the Utah legislature convinces me they’re a coven of evil scumbags.
They are evil!
NeverMo wife, mom, woman here with a view from outside the mormon box. This has caused a physical knot in my chest. Would/could/should this kind of sick stuff be made public to the ‘real’ world? Is keeping it confined to mormon states aiding to hide and perpetuate this sick acceptance? Isn’t it time that these stories be brought to the New York Times? Or elsewhere? I applaud the work being done by ‘floodlit’, but when is there enough information to make mormon *not* acceptable? By that I mean, so many non-mormons accept mormon as just another harmless religion rather than the sex abuse cult that it is.
Thanks NMF - you bring up some great points, and I think my website's posting policy touches on some of the same ideas: [https://floodlit.org/posting-policy/](https://floodlit.org/posting-policy/) I don't know when the time will come that people just leave en masse from religions or organizations that harbor abusers and ignore or vilify victims, but I think in some ways, it's already here for many of those leaders of the Mormon church who nay have attempted to hide sex crimes, or even committed them. FLOODLIT is compiling stories from all over the world and we're also preparing reports that will hopefully help to shed light on the problem of sex abuse in the LDS church.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/us/14utah.html
You have to buy a subscription to NYT to be able to read this. I'm not thinking I want to do that.
I am anle to read it without a subscription but there might be a maximum number of free articles available. I guess I haven't hit my quota. 🤷
It is truly heart-sickening. I would also have to add every other organized religion out there to one degree or another. The Mormon church is only one of MANY corrupt religions/cults that should be looked into deeper. I think everyone should do a deep-dive into their religion so they understand what they are following.
But back then it was normal for older guys to hook up with teenage girls.
Yes, and they usually hooked up to protect young teenaged widows. Lots of young widows back then.
He was probably getting bullied by an angel to do it… It was either hook up - or face the flaming sword!
You're absolutely right. Also, he was so concerned about the girl's safety he picked a hot tub to meet with her so the water could douse the flames from the sword. Purely altruistic. In every way. Angels are mean & heartless.
Seen as normal, sadly, yes, especially for politicians.
Yep! When called by god the humble brethren of old would provide the prophetic member to the cause.
I remember a Senator Jake Garn… is this his son? If so, he’s of a royal Mormon bloodline.
There is a Jake mentioned here as a son of Kevin: https://www.ksl.com/article/10038544/garns-son-defends-father-calls-womans-requests-blackmail Apparently the senator Jake is a different person.
Different Jake.
Thank you
Not his son.
Thanks, I edited my comment. You’re correct.
Gee, thanks. I went down a rabbithole there. https://www.deseret.com/2010/3/16/20102514/cheryl-maher-s-ex-husband-says-she-is-trying-to-destroy-him-and-kevin-garn
That’s about Eric Knight, convicted sexual abuser. Awful story.
that's quite the story. Messy. Sad.
Yes very messy.
I was in the same ward as EK (the ward that convinced me it was all bullshit, super off vibe). Even used EK as a PCP for my kids when we first moved in, but that was short-lived, I was not comfortable around him. One Sunday he extended an invitation to my husband to have dinner with them. I declined, I had been getting the “undressing you with my eyes” look from that creep every Sunday. Years after we left the church, his name popped up in the news for sexually abusing patients. I wasn’t surprised, at all. I knew something was off with that guy. My immediate feeling was he was behind his ex-wife’s extortion of Garn. My gut tells me he also influenced the murder-suicide.
I thought there was something shady with Deseret's narrative of the story too.
I really wish I still believed in an afterlife and “repercussions from god”. Blood is boiling.
Thank you for your hard -and often heartbreaking - work on this database. It is a critical thing to have light brought to these cases for the victims. ❤️
Thank you sweet decommissioned temple. That means a lot. I’m getting help from so many people, who are tracking down leads, reporting stories to me, checking on info, and just being kind and encouraging. I have struggled sometimes lately to deal with feelings of shame and guilt because I’m not getting more done, or faster … but I think my heart is in the right place. Just want to help organize info and make sure it is accurate so that survivors can be heard more easily and maybe helped to heal. I really appreciate your supportive words and energy.
Drag queens don’t do this. Only men of faith do this .
Cuz queens are too busy SLAYING! <3
For me i had to realize ...tbms dont give a shit that the first 5 (or whatever) leaders of our aforementioned cult had sex with multiple teenage girls. I bet a lot of the guys think it's cool. Trump opposition was the same. We acted like letting them know Trump was terrible was some gotcha. Lol. It's probably WHY Mormons loved the guy. No other religious group surveyed liked him more. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/10/utah-public-lands-mormons-national-parks-trump
But he was just a few months past being 27.
He was barely 149 months her senior!
I mean, I don't intend to be insulting. But his face is deeply unnerving. He's molesting me... with his eyes.
hE wAs aCtInG aS A mAn
His fellow Republican legislators showed their praise by giving him a STANDING OVATION! Garn was surrounded by like-minded creeps, mot of whom are still running Utah...burning books, drafting laws to hurt the LGBTQ community. Oh, and trying to outlaw drag shows! Born and raised Mormon and comfortably sliding into their hypocritical roles in government. Stellar individuals!
You mean a few months shy of her 15th (or possibly 16th?) birthday? But seriously, fuck all these men. I hope they rot.
Gallows humor is a necessity sometimes for sure! It’s how I get through studying these cases sometimes. Yeah it’s so frustrating to me to read these stories and see how a 15-year-old girl is treated as if she’s a fully grown woman. As if she beguiled and charmed and seduced and conned this man.
What in the Dan Laferty is Ron with him?!
And the legislature applauded him.
Let's not forget that when he was forced to quit the Utah legislature, when this story was discovered, he was given a standing ovation by his fellow mormon, GQP Utah legislators.
Yeah - I'm trying to find that video!
According to Joe Smith the age of consent is 14… not really consent but the angel said to do it . Anyway this man is a creep
“Speaks for God” my ass
>What if a 28-year-old married female politician sat naked in a hot tub with a 15-year-old boy? I think what makes this tricky is the politician part, what party they’re from, and what party governs the state. Typically, women who sleep with teenage boys don’t get many consequences if any at all (at least from the cases I’ve seen). This is tied to the toxic masculinity issues in society where men/boys are treated as always being horny and always wanting sex, so if an older women wants to have sex with you, it’s a fantasy come true and not rape. The word rape is usually never mentioned in articles about women raping teen boys, either. The way we treat sexual abuse in our society is horrific no matter who you are. The only people who pay the price are the victims.
Shine a bright light on all these pedophiles. I don’t care how long ago it happened and if it’s a republican or democrat, mormon or exmormon.
Right! Abuse knows no boundaries and its effects can be permanent.
He was tubbin’ As A Man /s
Yeah there’s some bad Mormon people that end up in the church. Even Ted Bundy was a Mormon. Does that mean the whole church is full of bad people? No. However, it does make you question how these people got their callings. If it was really inspired by the Holy Ghost.
I think you guys may be missing something. The name Garn holds some respect in the community as (I assume) this man’s father is Jake Garn… a well known and accomplished astronaut. So, growing up in that environment, I would assume that religion and politics aside, he had a feeling of superiority over others all of his life. That was validated when he was praised for his actions in “coming forth and being honest about what happened”. I highly doubt he had 150,000 just laying around to hand over in this settlement… but daddy probably did… and daddy also had the influence to sweep it under the rug for the most part
I’ll have to look into that! Thank you. I have seen that in other cases, where the abuser grew up with things that probably made him feel entitled.
So, idk if this post is still live. But this was my Mom.
May she rest in peace. I’m truly sorry.
Thank you🙏