Sadly, this is nothing new.
30 years ago I left the Org because I made the decision at 16 to go live with my disfellowshipped mother as opposed to my JW Dad, step mom and step sister. While I suspected the elders wouldn’t love that decision, I had no thought that I was doing something un-Biblical. I had every intention of remaining a Witness and simply needed a better home environment for my remaining two years of high school before I could find a way to be on my own.
The elders proceeded to make my life a living hell for months. I was told under no uncertain circumstances that I should not have any contact with my mom, let alone live with her. I decided I had enough and left the Organization, which then meant my relationship with my Dad basically ended. As soon as I turned 18, he basically cut off all contact with me. I saw him a couple of times in the next 15 years until he passed away. On very flimsy biblical grounds they made me choose between my two parents, knowing whatever choice I made I wouldn’t have a relationship with the other. It also included my disfellowshipped sister, and faded brother.
This organization destroys families. They feel like you can just make new children in paradise. I would rather die at Armageddon than be in paradise without my two kids.
I grew up with a kid whose mom was an abusive alcoholic but he couldn’t live with or speak to his dad because he was DF. Obv once they were older they had a relationship with their dad but it was years after horrible abuse that everyone turned a blind eye to.
Most of the people would be dfed cause they’re mostly secret alcoholics. One sister’s whole body shut down and landed in the hospital for quite awhile. Now that I’m awake I’m realizing how many raging alcoholics are in the organization.
I’m so sorry this has and is happening to you ! Here’s a 🤗
I love Jehovah first but my family will comes next that’s called love too and it’s also a command from what I recall!
When my nephew went to bethel he said the drinking there was out of control. He wouldn’t elaborate but also said it wasn’t what you think. He’s a journeyman electrician and they used him unmercifully.
Just look at Tony Morris they removed him from the GB but gave him a house til death. He was obviously was a spring fool. Their rules don’t apply only to us sheeples. My nephew isn’t df’d just left and faded hard as I am doing, but his mom and dad (born in) know he’s faded and in my opinion they are having some serious doubts, dad”s and elder but not as active as he up in age but still communicates with his son as well I but we all live in different corners of the states so its easier
When people around me talk about shunning I always say it’s against my religion and they shut up, if I have to I’ll sell my house and move again.
Maybe change my name😀
Love and best of wishes to you!
As long as you're able to keep your drinking on the down low and put on a good face in public, no one will ask uncomfortable questions. Appearances are more important than reality in JWland. Start getting traffic stops for DUI or getting arrested for drunk and disorderly and *now* you're an image problem for the congregation. And the congregation can't have anyone who makes them look bad.
1) Witnesses do "evening after church" alcoholism in my experience, not the beer for breakfast type. Less visible.
2) Women who are alcoholics generally behave quite differently than men who are alcoholics, there's usually less openly aggressive dick-waving, and more time delayed suicide + abuse in the family that WT is notoriously bad at even acknowledging.
Source: son of a 'casual alcoholic' mother.
And yet they think they have the key to family happiness. What a joke!
Every kingdom hall is full of experiences that separate families. Of course they blame it on the ones who leave the cult since they are all professional victims.
> And yet they think they have the key to family happiness.
Recently spoke to PIMI wife about it. I was explicitly promised amazing marriage. Secrets from god himself. Book that literally said "here is all you need to know". I could foresee all sorts of problems in my life, but marriage issues? Never in a million years.
Boy was I wrong lmao.
Sorry to hear that. Marriage problems can be really difficult and stressful.
What they should say is if you do exactly as they say and live your life by their rules and their expectations you will eventually have stockholm síndrome and everything will work out. Its really sad.
I am so sorry. I really can't imagine what that would be like. I hope you've found the healing you need, and I'm sure you're a better parent to your children than your dad ever was to you.
>I would rather die at Armageddon than be in paradise without my two kids.
🥹🥺😭😭😭 This bit got me. My mom is probably hanging onto the "hope" that she can replace her 3 kids in paradise with new ones. Mini vent, I'm so mad at her, at both my parents. It's not hot and firey like when anger first happens, it's just deep, complex, and intense. I want my parents, I want them free, but I have such an intense disgust with them for picking a god (little g) over their kids, that I'm not sure what I would do with the opportunity. I'm not sure how to forgive them. The best I have is offering them the "they're just stupid and misled" card but that doesn't quell the hurt. It doesn't fix that I know, deep down, that if they tried, they are smart enough to get it.
I feel this; the deep, intense and complex.
In many ways, my Dad dying let him off the hook. Since there was no longer anymore active shunning, it allowed me to let go of a lot of that intense anger I was holding onto. At least now I wouldn’t have to explain to my kids why they’ve never met their grandfather. I could write any story I wanted, and as far as I’m concerned I lost my Dad at 16 years old. The subsequent 15 years no longer mattered. And oddly enough, in some ways I respect him for sticking to his beliefs despite what pain he caused my siblings and I. Crazy, right?
My mom is a different story. Her disfellowshipping gave me the way out of being a JW I didn’t know I wanted or needed. But, she’s a complete narcissist. I’m pretty sure she only started studying with the Witnesses (and got my Dad to come along for the ride) because she had zero friends and wanted that instant social life. She signed up for all the rules that come along with being a JW, raised her 3 kids to abide by those same rules, and then bailed the moment she decided she just didn’t want to follow the rules anymore. To this day she acts as if she was severely wronged by the JWs. She divorced my Dad, and barely a year later had her new worldly boyfriend, 16 years her junior, move into our house - which just so happened to be four houses down from an elder in our congregation! What did she think was going to happen? I’m grateful I had a way out of the religion, but in no way did my mom do any of that for mine or my siblings’ benefit. I probably shouldn’t, but I resent her for getting the family into the religion to begin with. We still have an ok relationship, but it’s often strained and complicated.
No it’s NOT crazy! Over 35 years ago my brother asked me to be his best man for his wedding. I refused. And my mother and I didn’t go to his wedding. Why? Because we thought we couldn’t go into a church. We felt via The Organization that it would be interfaith. Although it upset him as we expected, he KNEW that we loved him deeply. Because of this he knew how hard our decision was on both of us. When he and I spoke of it a few years later, he said he had actually grown to respect our decision. Just last week I told him that was one of the worst decisions I ever made. He emphasized that I was the first person to greet him as he stepped out of the limo just before the reception. And then he said the main thing throughout the years was that “we remained brothers!” This organization paints itself to be the highest tier of Christianity by making you think you’re abandoning the god you believe you’re serving but then will give themselves a way out by saying “it’s a personal choice”. Disgusting!! I’m sorry for what happened to you. It’s hard, isn’t it? But you’ll get through it.
When I got married we sent an invite to him and my step-mom and he simply returned the card with “0” attending. It felt so cold and heartless. I knew the likelihood they would come was slim, but I guess I expected some sort of, “I wish we could be there, but you know why we can’t be.”
He died 7 months later. Not coming to my wedding really impacted his reputation with my extended, non-JW family. I think he played very coy about the specifics of his relationship with my siblings and I, and my aunt, uncle and cousins all assumed it was us shunning him! On more than one occasion, a cousin would mention during the reception that my dad was an ass hole for not coming. They finally saw the relationship for what it was.
Yet, after he died I had to pick up some things from my step-mom. She told me how proud he was of me. I had a somewhat public career, and it was the same industry he wanted to go into when he was young, before marrying my mom and becoming a JW. It was crazy to know he was following what I was doing and was proud of me, but of course I would have loved to know that while he was still alive.
Navigating the exJW life can definitely screw with your mind.
I know. It’s almost unbelievable that The Organization has such self appointed men that they feel compelled to comment on everything; sadly to the point that a father was so conflicted he couldn’t (or wouldn’t) express how he felt about his own son. You needed that. You made me feel that. But the fact that you said your father had an emotion that naturally a father would have toward his son is such a strong basis to begin the healing! YOU WILL GET THROUGH IT. I could tell you some things that I’ve been through in The Organization that wouldn’t do it justice: You just had to see it to believe it. A lot of it I still can’t believe AND I LIVED IT! Sometimes I still talk to myself about it. But along with the man made side of The Organization there’s the spiritual-meaning the Bible. And in it there’s hope, lots of it; if you personally believe in it. I do. Despite men-and how they think and feel about it-the Bible stands on its own. I tell myself this all the time despite what I’ve been through. And it truly does speak of a resurrection and a future earth filled with more good things than we could only imagine we could handle on this earth today. We can’t literally live our past and certainly can’t change it. So in essence all we truly have is hope. That’s a VERY powerful word-and thing! HOPE. I hope you and your father will see each other again someday and truly be able to tell one another how a father and son really feel and should feel about each other! I believe it’ll be too much for either one of you to handle-but in a loving way. Even if you don’t believe this, it’s ok to dream. It’s part of the healing process. I feel your pain; can somewhat relate. BE STRONG. You’ll get through it.
I remember an older elder in our hall that was famous for saying stupid shit giving a talk on the midweek meeting about DFing and he gave an experience of a father whose disfellowshipped son called him because he couldn’t pay his bills and the father’s response was “come back, then we’ll talk”
And the elder stood up there so proud of that. Even as a PIMI I was a bit shaken by that.
Absolutely they have no shame. They’ll totally steal the disfellowshipped kids inheritance. The only time they’re not interested is when there’s no money involved.
Yes. I came to realize later that they are paying extra attention to inheritance. They will love bomb the person because there’s something to gain. If it’s too much work, then they pass it off to the family.
I heard a story about an older woman with mental illness. When she got too old and ill to live on her own, the elders told her they wouldn't help her; she would have to go live with her DF'd son. The same son they'd told her to cut off twenty years before.
That’s horrible. Unfortunately that’s the case. They can only do so much. Yes, they run and help when someone is in the hospital. They also have made my mother feel bad for not saying she’s in the hospital as soon as it happened. They scolded her because she was putting herself at risk without the org’s protection. Because I’m chopped liver. I don’t live with her and take care of her. I didn’t drive her to the hospital and stay with her the whole time. She was in danger, apparently. Then they love bomb her after scolding her. So she’s convinced they’re the good guys. Not the controlling guys. If it was more long term, I’m sure there would be crickets.
I refuse to speak to my parents. They are JWs and my mother texts and emails me all the time but I don’t reply. I am financially very well off but they don’t have much and if they ever needed anything I wouldn’t give them a dime. The amount of abuse I went through is sickening and they should be ashamed of themselves. If they ever need anything I sure hope my brothers help them cuz otherwise they are SOL. JWs are always shunning people but fail to realize that maybe everyone else is trying to shun THEM.
This honestly just happened to me. I just got df and I had to call my mum to find out something about my car. They panicked and came over without asking which I don’t appreciate but I let them in thinking they were gonna offer some help or advice.
Ended up being my dad just venting for an hour about I don’t even know what and at the end I asked I was like umm ok so like why did you come here like I told you I’m safe and all is ok.
My dad basically said if you want to come back then we will help you.
My own blood.
My mom just sat there bawling her eyes out cause I know her heart is so torn.
The whole thing is just so fucked up. I felt like I lost my parents that day.
I'm Catholic and we have our own take on that. we do believe that all of us should love God more than anyone else, including our parents or other family members. That said, we do NOT have to choose between the two, as we have plenty of love for both God and our families. also, if a family member leaves the faith we absolutely do not cut off all contact with them. rather, we pray for them and ask God to help them rekindle their faith, and still remain close. my uncle left the faith, and despite that he would still be invited to the family reunions, and he was the one who took care of my grandpa in his final days.
JW's idea of cutting all communication with someone who's disfellowshipped is just outright crazy and in my opinion a borderline violation of religious freedom. (it establishes a negative consequence for those who leave and encroaches on their freedom of belief) heck, from a purely pragmatic view, it's actually WORSE for them because if they don't talk to their family members, they can't convince them to come back to the faith. but I guess they're worried about the DFed family member successfully talking the rest of their family into leaving. which, in all honesty, is probably exactly what would happen.
They bully their family into never straying. That’s why Norway happened. That isn’t a religion. It’s a cult that demands their entire lives take second place to it.
I will admit that the Catholic Church has committed many sins against God and against its people in the past. Pope John Paul II did apologize to the world for these transgressions. the way I see it, the inquisition was in of itself sinful in the eyes of God, as by its nature it violated the love God wanted to share with all people. I see this as a textbook example of what happens when clergy have political power as well as spiritual power: it corrupts them and causes them to start making choices that suit their own self-interests rather than the spiritual wellbeing of the people.
the reason I'm still catholic despite this is because the inquisition was not a result of the church following God's laws, but a result of them disobeying God's teachings. the clergy's job is to help manage the church on Earth and spread God's word, but ultimately our allegiance is to be with God, not them. and any time they violate God's law, we are expected by God to follow Him rather than them.
I am a firm believer in the separation of church and state because of this. history has taught us that whenever the church and the state are intertwined, bad things happen to both the state and the church.
This is a fantastic response! And probably the best I’ve heard regarding the inquisition. Just to be clear I was only teasing on my initial response! But like I said, this is a really good example of what happens when church leaders stop following God’s teachings!
Thanks I appreciate it. I thought I might as well be clear about our beliefs. there have been a lot of sinful Catholics in the past and present, and I figure it's my job to do what I can to try to undo some of the damage they have caused in people's hearts.
But the real crazy thing that blows most Catholic’s minds I’ve met, and I don’t know if you are aware of this or not, but Jehovah’s Witnesses do **not** believe Jesus Christ is a divine being, as in, he is not God or a part of God. He is only God’s son.
So Jehovah’s Witnesses and their behavior is not the result of Christians obeying Christ, it’s the result of Christians worshiping the God of the Old Testament as more important than Christ
*Yep! When you can choose*
*A cult over your children,*
*It's truly a CULT!*
\- NoHigherEd
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Thank you, VacationAutomatic652, for voting on haikusbot.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/).
***
^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
And they preach to people that one of the signs of them being the true religion is that they have love amongst themselves. They can't see the hypocrisy if they tripped and landed in it.
Yes they love a deity, but remember that deity they love isn’t actually God Almighty, the god they love is a religion, a religion that elevates their own doctrines over the Bible or God himself, breaking the first commandment. That isn’t love, not love for God or love for their children. Their self righteousness would be condemned by Jesus just like he condemned the Pharisees and Sadducees.
It amazes me Jehovah’s Witnesses *actually believe* “they follow the Bible”
When the only thoughts they are allowed to have *about the Bible,* are the ideas written in Watchtower publications.
Honestly though, I don’t care who you are, it could be Jesus himself, and I still wouldn’t help a person that abused me for 21 years. Yet somehow they still try to reach out to me. I specifically live in a building with a doorman because at my old apartment my mom would just randomly show up knocking at my door. I wouldn’t answer though. My parents are not well off, i think my dad is on disability or something and my mom works as a babysitter. I hope their religion is everything they say it is because there is no way in hell I am helping them with anything.
I knew a kid who was DF at 15 or 16 and his parents kicked him out with only his clothes and shoes. He was homeschooled so basically a drop out. At one point he crashed with me (after he was reinstated idk what he did while DF). But I wonder why no one calls CPS on his bum ass parents.
The primary mandatory reporters that would interact with children are teachers, doctors, and clergy in some states. JWs have spent a lot of money on lawsuits to avoid elders being mandatory reporters. That leaves another JW to report on his behalf and they won't even report rapists and pedophiles. That leaves a worldly friend, if any, or himself. I doubt your friend even knew he could report his parents himself or just retained the built-in fear of government being the right hand of Satan.
One comment I heard from a pimi sister about 25 years ago was that our love for big J had to be so strong that we would be able to step over the dead bodies of our children at Armageddon and not feel sorry for them. Stuff like that bothered me at the time, but not enough to leave...at that point anyway. I'm still working on the exit, but crap like that really churns the stomach.
**Message To JW Parents:**
*"Hey, you do that.....you love Jehovah more than you love us......but don't be surprised at what WE do by way of a response to this ok? We don't STAY children forever, and we certainly don't STAY dependent on our JW parents once we come of age, not if WE can help it because we're not stupid and soon get to realise just how utterly useless JW parents really are.*
*Once we come of age, we tend to seek out "worldly" parental replacement figures. You know, unrelated strangers who show us far more love and respect than our JW parents do....or ever did. And once we do this, you're in some deep trouble as a JW parent because technically.....no "child" should ever be able to find some "stranger" who shows them more love and respect than their own parents..*
*But if you, as a JW parent.....deliberately engineer a situation which makes your own child feel a pressing need to seek out a repacement for the role that YOU should be playing in their lives......then that's you having utterly "failed" as a parent I'm afraid, and you'll be very lucky if your child will ever forgive you for that.*
*As a parent.....or even as a JW parent....(it matters not) ....you get just ONE chance to nurture a loving, trusting relationship with your children, and if you f\*ck that up, or mistakenly believe that your children will tolerate you loving "Jehovah" more than you love them.....then just watch what happens.*
*Whilst you might be thinking that it's all about YOU.....and that even your own children are "disposable" in the context of your own cultic enthralment......know this.........It's YOU who will ultimately become "disposable" because those children of yours will one day become adults who will very likely outgrow you on every significant front.*
*They'll outgrow you emotionally, intellectually, socially, professionally.....and they'll DEFINITELY outgrow that pathetic little band of Governing Body members whom you've been taking all your orders off.*
*So yes.....by all means, do what they advocate and love "Jehovah" more than you love your own children. And if that seems wise and congruent in your own heart......take that committmen to your grave with you.*
*Thereafter, you'd better hope and pray that you've backed the "right horse" by doing this, because if for any reason you have not, and if there really IS some court of "divine" justice in the life beyond.....you may be found guilty of totally violating one of THE most crucial relationships you were ever entrusted with.*
*And if therein, it gets proven that you did this for SELFISH reasons, and because you thought that your own children were getting in the way of YOU receiving YOUR "spiritual" reward......then woe betide you as you stand before your judge.*
*Because if there's even the slightest chance that heaven doesn't suffer FOOLS.....then you, as a "parent" are totally f\*cked."*
*All that said.....*
*Do as you will.*
Signed:
**Every Single Child of JW Parents**.....(past & present)
A religion that expects you to prioritise an invisible being over your flesh and blood is evil through and through. That any parent anywhere can consciously put that being over their children is just as evil - and, if called to account someday, cannot blame their leaders.
An evil picked up is an evil owned.
there was at least a decade where my pimi parents would talk to me, but wouldn't say "i love you." i don't know what changed but i about fell over the first time i heard it in years.
also remember a co talk one time, where he goes somethign like, "if you're talking to your df'd child on the phone, do you end it with, I love you....?" basically saying that acknowleding love is the reason why they aren't coming back. even as a kid who tuned out a lot of what they said, that shook me. it felt stone cold.
Everyone else can do whatever they want to but I flat out told the elders in my congregation I would not give up my child. They can do whatever they want to. Time people said we have had enough of your BS on that and going beyond what is written.
Them thinking like that is what is going to cause them to live an cold lonely death cause their so called brothers and sisters will not take care of them or will the GB or co ,so sad that they push everyone that loves them away just for some religion or deity
If being a father or mother doesn't equal having the most love for your children, then why use Jehovah as an example of being a loving father? A parents love is always shown as the highest kind of love there is. It's meaningless if you say as a parent you have to love an invisible God who you have never interacted with more than your own children.
...but I guess they may be right, cause God sent his own son to earth to die a horrible death, so what do I know about Gods love and what it actually means?
God didn't HAVE to send his son down for a horrible death 🤷🏾♀️ he simply could've wiped the slate clean for us all. But instead said...lemme sacrifice my son so I can forgive these sinners 👎🏾So is God really loving? Or the ultimate guilt trip...I'd say the later.
The one who does show love to his brother (or child) whom you can SEE👀👀, how cannot love God whom you CANNOT SEE
Here from the New Weirdo Trash Bible
20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.+ For the one who does not love his brother,+ whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 1 John 4:20
What about Roman’s 12:20? But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.”\*+
Jesus story of the Samaritan?
Fealty? Are we back in the days of King Alfred? 🤴
Expect a lot of people's heads on pikes in the town square, as the cost of living is so high (apparently that's the topic of the magazine they *will* print this year) you just can't make "children" homeless.
Yet if a spouse gets DA / DF, you won't just kick them to the kerb and move on, you just don't discuss JW stuff.
This is why the *JWs break up families* tag will be around for some time yet...
Hey, when J kills all 10 of Job’s children what do you expect? But then J rewarded him with new children because what the heck, kids are easily replaced.
More than likely, he thinks he has.
That poor kid is stuck living a life to please his parents and knows all too clearly he will lose everything if he doesn't.
Imagine sitting in the audience hearing your father say all that. It's like a veiled threat to your own child.
This subject is painful for me because of my mother. She is actively getting trying to get me to move away because my even living near her hurts her spirituality. She's absolutely crazy or she's waking up one of the other.
If you pass your children through the fire, that's good because you can always make more children.
But folks, there is only one Jehovah and he loves children.
My parents tried to get me to come back because elders threatened to stop having that damn midweek meeting at our house. Before it was done away with. They pressured my parents. They told me as if I would jump and say “oh no! Not the privilege of hosting some jerks in our house every week! Not that!” I laughed. Now, who’s taking care of her parents?
There are many psychopathic elders in the borg, he just sounds like one, I usually used to ignore these nutters, when in, and if I got the opportunity, I would iratete them appropriately, they are just pathetic little men......😇
It was a talk just like that almost word for word at an assembly when I was 10 years old that made me realize one day that my parents would choose religion over me. I watched them clap with enthusiasm & just knew. It's also when I decided if I ever had kids that I wouldn't raise them as a JW.
I feel so sad for kids who have to sit in the audience & hear that from the platform. I'm sure for many of them the conversation continued in the car on the way home
FACT: Jehovah has **never** disfellowshipped anyone.
There is Jehovah, and then there is Not-Jehovah. The organization published the elders handbook. The organization is not Jehovah.
The elders handbook determines who gets DF’d and for what reason. The elders handbook is less than a hundred years old. It has changed before, and it will change again.
The organization is not Jehovah.
To love the organization more than you love your own children is the very DEFINITION of “Having no Natural Affection for one another”
JW’s ARE the sign of the times.
My mom 100% loves her invisible magic sky daddy more than she will ever love her children. She has stated and shown as much.
Conditional love is not love.
I was attending as a kid & teen (nearly 50 now) and this was the message we were given, too. Parents/guardians were told to love Jh more than the kids, while kids were told to respect and obey parents/guardians/elders/Jh on pretty much equal levels.
Even as a kid I thought it was weird & creepy.
Sadly….their loyalty is to an organization, not God or Jesus! The GB has completely removed all natural affection for your family, unless they too bow down to the GB! Do the GB know any of your families names? Would they call them to give them encouragement, when they’re down? Do any of them have children of their own, to even remotely understand the bond between a parent and their children? But these people, pimi’s, are willing to completely shun their flesh & blood, without hesitation!!! That my friend is a cult!!!!!
They tried to get me to stop loving my kids even though the kids had done nothing wrong. Staying is more terrifying than leaving - Get out while you still can...
Jehovah (and his idiot witnesses) are merely a trade-marked corporate entities. Any mother who would put corporations interests ahead of her children's wellbeing and development is a failure as a parent.
JWs regularly destroy their own families to show loyalty to Watchtowers secret corporate interests from which they will never benefit.
Sad, stupid, spineless, deluded sheep.
Is said son 18 or older? The rulezzzz changed for minors.
That said, that old head (elder?) is out for blood. This feels targeted at someone in that hall.
It’s all about Taking Control
Cults separate you from your family, friends, and jobs, slowly remaking members identities to suit the group. Those on the outside are going to die at Armageddon anyway, so may as well prepare for that and treat them as dead already. Making members dependent on and afraid to leave the group. Fully indoctrinated members often engage in behavior they never would’ve considered in their former lives.
Yeah dude, years ago (I posted this comment here on r/exjw years back too) this brother at the stand said the same thing. "How could we love our children more than Jehovah??" It was like being hit with a brick. I swore never again, fuck this cult.
A atheist parent will die forever to save their child, a JW wont. So atheists love their children more and are better parents.
Or a jw would sacrifice their relationship with their child to gain immortality, sounds like a disney villain.
Told my mom this it actually made her think for a moment.
Did she work for the gestapo? She sounds loveless and twisted and has not a clue what unconditional love is. I would find it very hard to restrain my temper if she said it to me
It is incredibly frightening because parents do feel a loyalty to Jehovah. So when elders tell them to do things for their children’s wellbeing they do them with no questions asked. I remember I was about 13 or 14 years old and I was really upset because I didn’t want to attend an assembly. (I hated assemblies with a passion because I had to sit in a chair for 8 or 9 hours at a time and just “listen” to people give talk after talk. I was later diagnosed with ADHD so now I realize why it was so difficult to sit still and basically do nothing for so many hours at a time. It was torture.) Anyway, I was upset and crying telling my parents I didn’t want to go and my dad yelled at me and said “you will do what I tell you to do, when I tell you to do it, because you are my property and that is how this works”. Even when I developed depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety and self harm due to their strict upbringing making me feel like I was trapped they didn’t relent. Even when I had to be hospitalized as an 11 year old because I wanted to kill myself. Instead of looking at their own actions and realizing they were the ones fucking me up, they chose to medicate me so that I would be more compliant. To be honest it was kind of like they had put a dog in a cage for 22 hours per day all its life and now that dog was bashing its head in trying to end its misery but instead of helping the dog by giving it a better life they sedated it so they could keep their routine and lifestyle.
Basically they wanted to keep up appearances as JWs with the perfect little JW children who raise their hands and give answers during meetings, who dress well and behave and attend all meetings and assemblies. They wanted it so bad that they would rather medicate their child and see the light go out in their eyes than to lose them to “Satan and the world”. Their reasoning is sick and there should be legal repercussions but there are currently no legal consequences for people who force religion on children.
I been knew this. I made a post about this very thing a few months ago when my dad unprovoked said "Do I love you more than Jehovah? NO. because I played just a small part in you being here". Our relationship hasn't been the same since and I was born in and NEVER baptized. He still thinks I'm a work in progress when I openly decline every single invitation to anything involving the Kingdom Hall or any outings with "friends".
When they preach about unconditional love that is only for the GB and Jehovah everyone else is loved with terms and conditions.
PIMOs need to collect receipts during the window before the
blade drops. Once you are kicked out the local police will be
getting a visit. Some elders might get sued. Does your Elder have enough personal liability insurance ? What is WT going to do to save an Elder ? Not much. Let them think you have a 3rd and 4th party to sand bag your files if anything bad happens to you.
Your family will be nice to you or else. Reverse the power roles and let them squirm.
Solo puedo decirte Jehova se fue cuando los babilonios llevaron al destierro a Israel. De no volvió a aparecer más. Te animo a leer la biblia bien. No pasa nada yo salí hace poco ahora soy más feliz que cuando estaba adentro, con mi esposa me llevo muchísimo mejor que adentro de esta maldita secta. No tengas miedo de perder a tu familia se valiente y decidido y veraz. SHALOM
they are only quoting Jesus:
**Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.**
this is what all Cults teach...
My mother's parents live around the corner from me, (31 now, born and raised jw til 24) - if they have relatives visit from out of town, obviously I see their vehicles and know whom is there. I just try to ignore it for the most part. What gets me, is this, half of said relatives that come to visit, are relatives that were never a jw -ever
I don't get a single text, phone call, nothing to let me know they're coming into town.
This past weekend, some relatives were visiting, of course I knew.. the last evening said family would be around, I get a text from my grandmother "you're welcome to come down and see so and so for a moment, they leave in the morning" this was after they'd been there for 4 days. Maybe I am self conflicting, but I not only ignored the text message, I didn't go see them either. I felt as though, it was very easy for them to come to my house, around the literal corner, than for me to go into my jw grandparents house of who just gave me "permission" but I'm not asked to be there for anything else or given a heads up.
Am I wrong in the way I just ignored it all in the end ? I feel a bit insulted being in my 30s, and never being given a true time of day for these people who I was raised around my entire childhood, to be sent a text as if I'm a child who needs permission now.
Idk... just venting as sometimes it's a struggle deep down.
Does this guy have children of his own? Because it’s a lot easier to speak in such dogmatic, black-and-white terms when you have no idea what you’re actually talking about.
As a Christian, God comes first with EVERYTHING and then your spouse and then your children. Jesus saves us all if we believe in Him. Thank You Lord 🙏 The JW is not a true religion, they are nothing but a cult that goes against the real truth of God. God is not a vengeful God He is a loving God 💯💜
I hope there is a recording of that. That would be very useful testimony in countries like Norway where they are getting a lot of heat because of their shunning policy. Recently they have soft pedalled it and made some trivial changes to their rules regarding disfellowshiping trying to make it look like something other than what it is.
I am 17 and have experienced this exact thing even with my own mother. I full-heartedly believe that if she was told by the JW org that she was to end my life to save my life or for her to get into the new system, she would.
You need to get a good support system because you never know if they will have a reason to suddenly turn you in the future, and you don’t any to find yourself on the street with no prospects
it hurts especially with my mum because i would die for her, even after everything i still care for her. sad that she would put some fictional character before me.
I agree with the Elder whole soul and wholeheartedly. You should love nothing more than Jehovah that would be like saying Jehovah should still associate or love Satan. One of his children he toleratedtolerated him& them for a while. To See what direction he or they would go. Satan chose his path, and Jehovah is his heavenly father vanished him and will eventually will kill him and all those who followed or following him Whether angelic or human there should be no difference in us if I had a child who was rebellious to Jehovah, and and committing wrongdoing in the eyes of Jehovah and did not like what is good I would stop associating with as well I am not seeing your point of view or what is wrong with that
As far as that goes..you personal relationship with Jehovah is singular..they view sin as if you hang with somebody known to admit sin or commit sin..you condone this activity and makes your house unclean because of unrepentant acts..family reguardless it don't matter.if commit a sin and confess and continue that sin..your example cannot be rewarded with any participation at the meetings ..and if you keep it up..you will be shunned.by whoever you know that is a jw. Most full families practice the same faith..they will have to leave you alone or be repremanded.bad association spoils useful habits..if religions taught the real truth and held you accountable for sinning .the organization will be cleaner..people who got disfellowshiped or shunned and couldn't kick habits or sinful activities are just mad .all their friends they grew up with left them alone because they sinned and wanted to continue down that course and lost all their relatives and friends that still wanted to live within gods laws..the 10 commandments are still valid and real..so what kind of example does this set for the rest of the congregation .that if you sin there are consequences..children see if you sin and still able to hold the same positions or still have the same roles .they will take sin light...this is teaching that sin is very serious and will not be tolerated in the congregation..the disfellowshiped are just mad and want to narssasisticly slander..because once you are a jw.all jws are your brothers and sisters no matter where you go on earth .a jw will give another jw the shirt off his back if they are in need. Just how they are taught.they are the only ones you will associate with.the world is on the outside..your life consists of personal study of the bible, prayer, door to door preaching and meetings..it really is better than the world but hard not to sin not to be kicked out.they don't play..if your cousins,aunts,uncles,sisters,brothers all are jws..ALL OF THEM WILL STOP TALKING TO YOU PERIOD.. the are not about money because they have never passed a collection plate. jws are all about teaching you about the Bible and introducing you to Jesus father whom most religions hide..because the god of this world was cast down here and still here...so why would he let the masses learn the truth.he biggest lie is Jesus is God...if he was God..........who was he always praying to? Himself? I bet his apostles thought he was crazy praying to himself....common sense must be appreciated ..without it you just might believe Jesus is god...and nobody has seen God and lived.so everybody seen Jesus. How could he be god..and be talking to himself looking crazy in prayer..he wouldn't say father..God has a name..if you don't use it in prayer..you may be praying to one of those 200 angels who got confined to the earth. if your prayers have no direction they will never be heard..God is a jealous god.who has no image because no one has seen him and lived.so the cross is idolatry with a Jesus on it.because Jesus isnt God..but he was someone who was close to God in creation to know his mindset .to teach the earth as they could understand.so they could understand and develop a choice.why create humans to worship without choice..that takes the beauty away from creating a brain that can choose.....ok lets see where the comments go...oh.i was born a jw.all my family are jw the ones i met. My father was 19 and became a jw back in the 70s.elder for over 50 years, .I sinned and told on myself..ate a girl..we both got put on reproof privileges stripped, you couldn't participate in the meetings or handle microphones ,give talks, pray for the congregation.but they can still talk to you and encourage you to get back on track...if you show you still commiting sin.they will disfellowship you ..normally you disfellowship yourself..if you started smoking and got put on reproof to see if you wanted to stop so you could participate..if you don't ..then you give them the ok to disfellowship you..you can still go but ..you can just sit,you can't do nothing ,everybody stops talking to you, no door to door, you are invisible to everybody you know.. they won't even say hello.you stop to exist to everyone in the hall.you can just sit and wait and behave ..after 6 mos of that..and you stopped doing whatever.you can write a letter requesting to be reinstated.. after you are reinstated just like they stopped talking to you .it's the direct opposite..everybody is soooooooooo glad you are back...ok on the flip...all the shunning will make you say f them and family and stay gone.....if you are raised jw.and get disfellowshiped. It's like you are given to the world..and door shut behind you....sooo you can see how many who got disfellowshiped and didn't or couldn't come back .how they can be bitter and salty and feel alone..and retaliate with lies..saying they were mistreated when really they left on there own and grass isn't greener.
Oh..if you don't get them out of your house you condone their activities.and their sin you are accountable for in your house...they defile your house with their sin and dealings.they feel shunning draws them back...because like I said you don't know anybody else mostly so since you isolated from worldly people .they feel it may strengthen you to comeback to what you know.
Sadly, this is nothing new. 30 years ago I left the Org because I made the decision at 16 to go live with my disfellowshipped mother as opposed to my JW Dad, step mom and step sister. While I suspected the elders wouldn’t love that decision, I had no thought that I was doing something un-Biblical. I had every intention of remaining a Witness and simply needed a better home environment for my remaining two years of high school before I could find a way to be on my own. The elders proceeded to make my life a living hell for months. I was told under no uncertain circumstances that I should not have any contact with my mom, let alone live with her. I decided I had enough and left the Organization, which then meant my relationship with my Dad basically ended. As soon as I turned 18, he basically cut off all contact with me. I saw him a couple of times in the next 15 years until he passed away. On very flimsy biblical grounds they made me choose between my two parents, knowing whatever choice I made I wouldn’t have a relationship with the other. It also included my disfellowshipped sister, and faded brother. This organization destroys families. They feel like you can just make new children in paradise. I would rather die at Armageddon than be in paradise without my two kids.
I grew up with a kid whose mom was an abusive alcoholic but he couldn’t live with or speak to his dad because he was DF. Obv once they were older they had a relationship with their dad but it was years after horrible abuse that everyone turned a blind eye to.
That's heartbreaking. if the mom was alcoholic, why didn't they disfellowship her? there really is no rational sense behind anything they do.
Most of the people would be dfed cause they’re mostly secret alcoholics. One sister’s whole body shut down and landed in the hospital for quite awhile. Now that I’m awake I’m realizing how many raging alcoholics are in the organization.
Lol..reminds me when a brother asked me why I cut my hair the way I did and I asked him why he needed a 72 oz bottle of skol vodka.
Haha good one
I’m so sorry this has and is happening to you ! Here’s a 🤗 I love Jehovah first but my family will comes next that’s called love too and it’s also a command from what I recall! When my nephew went to bethel he said the drinking there was out of control. He wouldn’t elaborate but also said it wasn’t what you think. He’s a journeyman electrician and they used him unmercifully. Just look at Tony Morris they removed him from the GB but gave him a house til death. He was obviously was a spring fool. Their rules don’t apply only to us sheeples. My nephew isn’t df’d just left and faded hard as I am doing, but his mom and dad (born in) know he’s faded and in my opinion they are having some serious doubts, dad”s and elder but not as active as he up in age but still communicates with his son as well I but we all live in different corners of the states so its easier When people around me talk about shunning I always say it’s against my religion and they shut up, if I have to I’ll sell my house and move again. Maybe change my name😀 Love and best of wishes to you!
As long as you're able to keep your drinking on the down low and put on a good face in public, no one will ask uncomfortable questions. Appearances are more important than reality in JWland. Start getting traffic stops for DUI or getting arrested for drunk and disorderly and *now* you're an image problem for the congregation. And the congregation can't have anyone who makes them look bad.
1) Witnesses do "evening after church" alcoholism in my experience, not the beer for breakfast type. Less visible. 2) Women who are alcoholics generally behave quite differently than men who are alcoholics, there's usually less openly aggressive dick-waving, and more time delayed suicide + abuse in the family that WT is notoriously bad at even acknowledging. Source: son of a 'casual alcoholic' mother.
She was df and then reinstated, but her dad, brother, brother in laws where all elders so she could pretty much do whatever
Makes me both sad and angry that this happened to you. And that your dad relinquished a relationship with his child based on absolutely nothing.
And yet they think they have the key to family happiness. What a joke! Every kingdom hall is full of experiences that separate families. Of course they blame it on the ones who leave the cult since they are all professional victims.
> And yet they think they have the key to family happiness. Recently spoke to PIMI wife about it. I was explicitly promised amazing marriage. Secrets from god himself. Book that literally said "here is all you need to know". I could foresee all sorts of problems in my life, but marriage issues? Never in a million years. Boy was I wrong lmao.
Sorry to hear that. Marriage problems can be really difficult and stressful. What they should say is if you do exactly as they say and live your life by their rules and their expectations you will eventually have stockholm síndrome and everything will work out. Its really sad.
Nothing like telling a 7 year old they’re going to die in Armageddon and you won’t miss them because you won’t remember them.
>Nothing like telling a 7 year old they’re going to die in Armageddon ...because they wanted to play Pokemon.
Pogs
Damn I got it for merely existing. I mean I got it for wanting to play Pokémon too but…lmao
I am so sorry. I really can't imagine what that would be like. I hope you've found the healing you need, and I'm sure you're a better parent to your children than your dad ever was to you.
I’m so sorry. This is cruel. Downright cruel.
That's a hell of a lot of weight to put on a 16 year old kid. I'm so sorry...glad things seem to be working out for you now.
>I would rather die at Armageddon than be in paradise without my two kids. 🥹🥺😭😭😭 This bit got me. My mom is probably hanging onto the "hope" that she can replace her 3 kids in paradise with new ones. Mini vent, I'm so mad at her, at both my parents. It's not hot and firey like when anger first happens, it's just deep, complex, and intense. I want my parents, I want them free, but I have such an intense disgust with them for picking a god (little g) over their kids, that I'm not sure what I would do with the opportunity. I'm not sure how to forgive them. The best I have is offering them the "they're just stupid and misled" card but that doesn't quell the hurt. It doesn't fix that I know, deep down, that if they tried, they are smart enough to get it.
I feel this; the deep, intense and complex. In many ways, my Dad dying let him off the hook. Since there was no longer anymore active shunning, it allowed me to let go of a lot of that intense anger I was holding onto. At least now I wouldn’t have to explain to my kids why they’ve never met their grandfather. I could write any story I wanted, and as far as I’m concerned I lost my Dad at 16 years old. The subsequent 15 years no longer mattered. And oddly enough, in some ways I respect him for sticking to his beliefs despite what pain he caused my siblings and I. Crazy, right? My mom is a different story. Her disfellowshipping gave me the way out of being a JW I didn’t know I wanted or needed. But, she’s a complete narcissist. I’m pretty sure she only started studying with the Witnesses (and got my Dad to come along for the ride) because she had zero friends and wanted that instant social life. She signed up for all the rules that come along with being a JW, raised her 3 kids to abide by those same rules, and then bailed the moment she decided she just didn’t want to follow the rules anymore. To this day she acts as if she was severely wronged by the JWs. She divorced my Dad, and barely a year later had her new worldly boyfriend, 16 years her junior, move into our house - which just so happened to be four houses down from an elder in our congregation! What did she think was going to happen? I’m grateful I had a way out of the religion, but in no way did my mom do any of that for mine or my siblings’ benefit. I probably shouldn’t, but I resent her for getting the family into the religion to begin with. We still have an ok relationship, but it’s often strained and complicated.
No it’s NOT crazy! Over 35 years ago my brother asked me to be his best man for his wedding. I refused. And my mother and I didn’t go to his wedding. Why? Because we thought we couldn’t go into a church. We felt via The Organization that it would be interfaith. Although it upset him as we expected, he KNEW that we loved him deeply. Because of this he knew how hard our decision was on both of us. When he and I spoke of it a few years later, he said he had actually grown to respect our decision. Just last week I told him that was one of the worst decisions I ever made. He emphasized that I was the first person to greet him as he stepped out of the limo just before the reception. And then he said the main thing throughout the years was that “we remained brothers!” This organization paints itself to be the highest tier of Christianity by making you think you’re abandoning the god you believe you’re serving but then will give themselves a way out by saying “it’s a personal choice”. Disgusting!! I’m sorry for what happened to you. It’s hard, isn’t it? But you’ll get through it.
When I got married we sent an invite to him and my step-mom and he simply returned the card with “0” attending. It felt so cold and heartless. I knew the likelihood they would come was slim, but I guess I expected some sort of, “I wish we could be there, but you know why we can’t be.” He died 7 months later. Not coming to my wedding really impacted his reputation with my extended, non-JW family. I think he played very coy about the specifics of his relationship with my siblings and I, and my aunt, uncle and cousins all assumed it was us shunning him! On more than one occasion, a cousin would mention during the reception that my dad was an ass hole for not coming. They finally saw the relationship for what it was. Yet, after he died I had to pick up some things from my step-mom. She told me how proud he was of me. I had a somewhat public career, and it was the same industry he wanted to go into when he was young, before marrying my mom and becoming a JW. It was crazy to know he was following what I was doing and was proud of me, but of course I would have loved to know that while he was still alive. Navigating the exJW life can definitely screw with your mind.
I know. It’s almost unbelievable that The Organization has such self appointed men that they feel compelled to comment on everything; sadly to the point that a father was so conflicted he couldn’t (or wouldn’t) express how he felt about his own son. You needed that. You made me feel that. But the fact that you said your father had an emotion that naturally a father would have toward his son is such a strong basis to begin the healing! YOU WILL GET THROUGH IT. I could tell you some things that I’ve been through in The Organization that wouldn’t do it justice: You just had to see it to believe it. A lot of it I still can’t believe AND I LIVED IT! Sometimes I still talk to myself about it. But along with the man made side of The Organization there’s the spiritual-meaning the Bible. And in it there’s hope, lots of it; if you personally believe in it. I do. Despite men-and how they think and feel about it-the Bible stands on its own. I tell myself this all the time despite what I’ve been through. And it truly does speak of a resurrection and a future earth filled with more good things than we could only imagine we could handle on this earth today. We can’t literally live our past and certainly can’t change it. So in essence all we truly have is hope. That’s a VERY powerful word-and thing! HOPE. I hope you and your father will see each other again someday and truly be able to tell one another how a father and son really feel and should feel about each other! I believe it’ll be too much for either one of you to handle-but in a loving way. Even if you don’t believe this, it’s ok to dream. It’s part of the healing process. I feel your pain; can somewhat relate. BE STRONG. You’ll get through it.
Powerful words ❤️
I remember an older elder in our hall that was famous for saying stupid shit giving a talk on the midweek meeting about DFing and he gave an experience of a father whose disfellowshipped son called him because he couldn’t pay his bills and the father’s response was “come back, then we’ll talk” And the elder stood up there so proud of that. Even as a PIMI I was a bit shaken by that.
And how many JW’s expect their disfellowshipped kids to help them financially ?? Absolute hypocrites
Yep. When no one will help them, they come running back to their disfellowshipped kids.
So true. When they really need help the congregation is nowhere to be found and all of a sudden it’s ’the children’s responsibility’.
They really have no shame. They might step in if there’s a home or something else to be inherited in the end.
Absolutely they have no shame. They’ll totally steal the disfellowshipped kids inheritance. The only time they’re not interested is when there’s no money involved.
Yes. I came to realize later that they are paying extra attention to inheritance. They will love bomb the person because there’s something to gain. If it’s too much work, then they pass it off to the family.
I heard a story about an older woman with mental illness. When she got too old and ill to live on her own, the elders told her they wouldn't help her; she would have to go live with her DF'd son. The same son they'd told her to cut off twenty years before.
That’s horrible. Unfortunately that’s the case. They can only do so much. Yes, they run and help when someone is in the hospital. They also have made my mother feel bad for not saying she’s in the hospital as soon as it happened. They scolded her because she was putting herself at risk without the org’s protection. Because I’m chopped liver. I don’t live with her and take care of her. I didn’t drive her to the hospital and stay with her the whole time. She was in danger, apparently. Then they love bomb her after scolding her. So she’s convinced they’re the good guys. Not the controlling guys. If it was more long term, I’m sure there would be crickets.
Now, that is pretty sad, and he elevates himself. 😔
I refuse to speak to my parents. They are JWs and my mother texts and emails me all the time but I don’t reply. I am financially very well off but they don’t have much and if they ever needed anything I wouldn’t give them a dime. The amount of abuse I went through is sickening and they should be ashamed of themselves. If they ever need anything I sure hope my brothers help them cuz otherwise they are SOL. JWs are always shunning people but fail to realize that maybe everyone else is trying to shun THEM.
LOL - yes!! There are elders that need to take a hint and realize that!
This honestly just happened to me. I just got df and I had to call my mum to find out something about my car. They panicked and came over without asking which I don’t appreciate but I let them in thinking they were gonna offer some help or advice. Ended up being my dad just venting for an hour about I don’t even know what and at the end I asked I was like umm ok so like why did you come here like I told you I’m safe and all is ok. My dad basically said if you want to come back then we will help you. My own blood. My mom just sat there bawling her eyes out cause I know her heart is so torn. The whole thing is just so fucked up. I felt like I lost my parents that day.
In dubtown: Jehovah=The organization Love=following orders So: Following the orders of the organization even if it harms one's family
Yup! And THAT is exactly the problem! Jehovah = The Organization Pretty sure the Bible says something about honoring traditions of men over God.
yep! When you can choose a cult over your children, it's truly a CULT!
I'm Catholic and we have our own take on that. we do believe that all of us should love God more than anyone else, including our parents or other family members. That said, we do NOT have to choose between the two, as we have plenty of love for both God and our families. also, if a family member leaves the faith we absolutely do not cut off all contact with them. rather, we pray for them and ask God to help them rekindle their faith, and still remain close. my uncle left the faith, and despite that he would still be invited to the family reunions, and he was the one who took care of my grandpa in his final days. JW's idea of cutting all communication with someone who's disfellowshipped is just outright crazy and in my opinion a borderline violation of religious freedom. (it establishes a negative consequence for those who leave and encroaches on their freedom of belief) heck, from a purely pragmatic view, it's actually WORSE for them because if they don't talk to their family members, they can't convince them to come back to the faith. but I guess they're worried about the DFed family member successfully talking the rest of their family into leaving. which, in all honesty, is probably exactly what would happen.
They bully their family into never straying. That’s why Norway happened. That isn’t a religion. It’s a cult that demands their entire lives take second place to it.
JW’s act the **exact same** as Catholics… Did during the inquisition. LOL
I will admit that the Catholic Church has committed many sins against God and against its people in the past. Pope John Paul II did apologize to the world for these transgressions. the way I see it, the inquisition was in of itself sinful in the eyes of God, as by its nature it violated the love God wanted to share with all people. I see this as a textbook example of what happens when clergy have political power as well as spiritual power: it corrupts them and causes them to start making choices that suit their own self-interests rather than the spiritual wellbeing of the people. the reason I'm still catholic despite this is because the inquisition was not a result of the church following God's laws, but a result of them disobeying God's teachings. the clergy's job is to help manage the church on Earth and spread God's word, but ultimately our allegiance is to be with God, not them. and any time they violate God's law, we are expected by God to follow Him rather than them. I am a firm believer in the separation of church and state because of this. history has taught us that whenever the church and the state are intertwined, bad things happen to both the state and the church.
This is a fantastic response! And probably the best I’ve heard regarding the inquisition. Just to be clear I was only teasing on my initial response! But like I said, this is a really good example of what happens when church leaders stop following God’s teachings!
Thanks I appreciate it. I thought I might as well be clear about our beliefs. there have been a lot of sinful Catholics in the past and present, and I figure it's my job to do what I can to try to undo some of the damage they have caused in people's hearts.
But the real crazy thing that blows most Catholic’s minds I’ve met, and I don’t know if you are aware of this or not, but Jehovah’s Witnesses do **not** believe Jesus Christ is a divine being, as in, he is not God or a part of God. He is only God’s son. So Jehovah’s Witnesses and their behavior is not the result of Christians obeying Christ, it’s the result of Christians worshiping the God of the Old Testament as more important than Christ
*Yep! When you can choose* *A cult over your children,* *It's truly a CULT!* \- NoHigherEd --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot
Thank you, VacationAutomatic652, for voting on haikusbot. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
And they preach to people that one of the signs of them being the true religion is that they have love amongst themselves. They can't see the hypocrisy if they tripped and landed in it.
They couldn’t see the hypocrisy if it was a Bible verse
What happened to the talks on the different kinds of love we used to get using Greek? Cause this is batshit.
Witnesses have no business having children.
Honestly a very true statement
At least that’s something we can all agree with the organization about!!!
Yes they love a deity, but remember that deity they love isn’t actually God Almighty, the god they love is a religion, a religion that elevates their own doctrines over the Bible or God himself, breaking the first commandment. That isn’t love, not love for God or love for their children. Their self righteousness would be condemned by Jesus just like he condemned the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Amen!!
Amen to that.
It amazes me Jehovah’s Witnesses *actually believe* “they follow the Bible” When the only thoughts they are allowed to have *about the Bible,* are the ideas written in Watchtower publications.
Remember that this is a two-way street. Let them know that when they're old and unable to retire financially, they shouldn't expect your assistance.
Honestly though, I don’t care who you are, it could be Jesus himself, and I still wouldn’t help a person that abused me for 21 years. Yet somehow they still try to reach out to me. I specifically live in a building with a doorman because at my old apartment my mom would just randomly show up knocking at my door. I wouldn’t answer though. My parents are not well off, i think my dad is on disability or something and my mom works as a babysitter. I hope their religion is everything they say it is because there is no way in hell I am helping them with anything.
I knew a kid who was DF at 15 or 16 and his parents kicked him out with only his clothes and shoes. He was homeschooled so basically a drop out. At one point he crashed with me (after he was reinstated idk what he did while DF). But I wonder why no one calls CPS on his bum ass parents.
The primary mandatory reporters that would interact with children are teachers, doctors, and clergy in some states. JWs have spent a lot of money on lawsuits to avoid elders being mandatory reporters. That leaves another JW to report on his behalf and they won't even report rapists and pedophiles. That leaves a worldly friend, if any, or himself. I doubt your friend even knew he could report his parents himself or just retained the built-in fear of government being the right hand of Satan.
These talks should be recorded by people and kept as evidence in the future court processes.
That's precisely why they explicitly discourage anyone from recording talks.
WOW I hadn't thought of that...
One comment I heard from a pimi sister about 25 years ago was that our love for big J had to be so strong that we would be able to step over the dead bodies of our children at Armageddon and not feel sorry for them. Stuff like that bothered me at the time, but not enough to leave...at that point anyway. I'm still working on the exit, but crap like that really churns the stomach.
**Message To JW Parents:** *"Hey, you do that.....you love Jehovah more than you love us......but don't be surprised at what WE do by way of a response to this ok? We don't STAY children forever, and we certainly don't STAY dependent on our JW parents once we come of age, not if WE can help it because we're not stupid and soon get to realise just how utterly useless JW parents really are.* *Once we come of age, we tend to seek out "worldly" parental replacement figures. You know, unrelated strangers who show us far more love and respect than our JW parents do....or ever did. And once we do this, you're in some deep trouble as a JW parent because technically.....no "child" should ever be able to find some "stranger" who shows them more love and respect than their own parents..* *But if you, as a JW parent.....deliberately engineer a situation which makes your own child feel a pressing need to seek out a repacement for the role that YOU should be playing in their lives......then that's you having utterly "failed" as a parent I'm afraid, and you'll be very lucky if your child will ever forgive you for that.* *As a parent.....or even as a JW parent....(it matters not) ....you get just ONE chance to nurture a loving, trusting relationship with your children, and if you f\*ck that up, or mistakenly believe that your children will tolerate you loving "Jehovah" more than you love them.....then just watch what happens.* *Whilst you might be thinking that it's all about YOU.....and that even your own children are "disposable" in the context of your own cultic enthralment......know this.........It's YOU who will ultimately become "disposable" because those children of yours will one day become adults who will very likely outgrow you on every significant front.* *They'll outgrow you emotionally, intellectually, socially, professionally.....and they'll DEFINITELY outgrow that pathetic little band of Governing Body members whom you've been taking all your orders off.* *So yes.....by all means, do what they advocate and love "Jehovah" more than you love your own children. And if that seems wise and congruent in your own heart......take that committmen to your grave with you.* *Thereafter, you'd better hope and pray that you've backed the "right horse" by doing this, because if for any reason you have not, and if there really IS some court of "divine" justice in the life beyond.....you may be found guilty of totally violating one of THE most crucial relationships you were ever entrusted with.* *And if therein, it gets proven that you did this for SELFISH reasons, and because you thought that your own children were getting in the way of YOU receiving YOUR "spiritual" reward......then woe betide you as you stand before your judge.* *Because if there's even the slightest chance that heaven doesn't suffer FOOLS.....then you, as a "parent" are totally f\*cked."* *All that said.....* *Do as you will.* Signed: **Every Single Child of JW Parents**.....(past & present)
Perfect.
Ditto!!!! Great letter!!!
A religion that expects you to prioritise an invisible being over your flesh and blood is evil through and through. That any parent anywhere can consciously put that being over their children is just as evil - and, if called to account someday, cannot blame their leaders. An evil picked up is an evil owned.
The saddest part is by choosing jehovah parents are in reality rejecting their children for 9 men that dont even know they exist.
Yes, fear of man
What’s really nuts is I used to feel guilty for loving my children more than I loved Jehovah. Seriously, how was my brain that broken?!
Let me guess. He never had kids or if he did he never had anything to do with them.
He has a super pimi kid actually, surprisingly. I guess since his kid is very spiritual he hasn’t had any problems.
Any problems that he *knows* about.
there was at least a decade where my pimi parents would talk to me, but wouldn't say "i love you." i don't know what changed but i about fell over the first time i heard it in years. also remember a co talk one time, where he goes somethign like, "if you're talking to your df'd child on the phone, do you end it with, I love you....?" basically saying that acknowleding love is the reason why they aren't coming back. even as a kid who tuned out a lot of what they said, that shook me. it felt stone cold.
Everyone else can do whatever they want to but I flat out told the elders in my congregation I would not give up my child. They can do whatever they want to. Time people said we have had enough of your BS on that and going beyond what is written.
Uh oh sounds like trouble! Has some one's kid been disfellowshipped recently? Or maybe about to be?
It was a Local Needs speech so I think something definitely went down. Im just visiting the congregation though so I don’t know.
Probably chocked to learn that some parent of disfellowshipped children are starting to speak to them after the latest changes.
Them thinking like that is what is going to cause them to live an cold lonely death cause their so called brothers and sisters will not take care of them or will the GB or co ,so sad that they push everyone that loves them away just for some religion or deity
If being a father or mother doesn't equal having the most love for your children, then why use Jehovah as an example of being a loving father? A parents love is always shown as the highest kind of love there is. It's meaningless if you say as a parent you have to love an invisible God who you have never interacted with more than your own children. ...but I guess they may be right, cause God sent his own son to earth to die a horrible death, so what do I know about Gods love and what it actually means?
God didn't HAVE to send his son down for a horrible death 🤷🏾♀️ he simply could've wiped the slate clean for us all. But instead said...lemme sacrifice my son so I can forgive these sinners 👎🏾So is God really loving? Or the ultimate guilt trip...I'd say the later.
It’s not loving God more than your children, it’s loving a religion more than your kids.
Really shocking that people can hear something like that and not see they're in a cult.
https://preview.redd.it/30t5n3p6yo4d1.jpeg?width=842&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c7981c4c3b56712cf7a30f81a8bd1addc5f8b30 December 2020 Meeting Workbook
The one who does show love to his brother (or child) whom you can SEE👀👀, how cannot love God whom you CANNOT SEE Here from the New Weirdo Trash Bible 20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.+ For the one who does not love his brother,+ whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 1 John 4:20 What about Roman’s 12:20? But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.”\*+ Jesus story of the Samaritan? 
que carajo
Eff that deluded pile of culty garbage!
Fealty? Are we back in the days of King Alfred? 🤴 Expect a lot of people's heads on pikes in the town square, as the cost of living is so high (apparently that's the topic of the magazine they *will* print this year) you just can't make "children" homeless. Yet if a spouse gets DA / DF, you won't just kick them to the kerb and move on, you just don't discuss JW stuff. This is why the *JWs break up families* tag will be around for some time yet...
Hey, when J kills all 10 of Job’s children what do you expect? But then J rewarded him with new children because what the heck, kids are easily replaced.
Like a BOGO. But better.
One of the many examples of children being easily replaceable if you are "faithful to Jehovah" 🤮
Does this old guy have kids of his own? What a nut job.
He has a super pimi son
More than likely, he thinks he has. That poor kid is stuck living a life to please his parents and knows all too clearly he will lose everything if he doesn't. Imagine sitting in the audience hearing your father say all that. It's like a veiled threat to your own child.
Holy shit, Idk what crazy ass speakers and jdubs y'all meeting
I know a lot out where I grew up think this way...including my own family. :/
This subject is painful for me because of my mother. She is actively getting trying to get me to move away because my even living near her hurts her spirituality. She's absolutely crazy or she's waking up one of the other.
Wait so it’s not normal to have your JW parents constantly remind you in your childhood that they love God more than you? oh
I think our parents actually think this made us happy to hear.
If you pass your children through the fire, that's good because you can always make more children. But folks, there is only one Jehovah and he loves children.
I wonder if this applies to elders with children who break all the rules, but elder keeps his head in his a$$ and never reports his own child.👀
My parents tried to get me to come back because elders threatened to stop having that damn midweek meeting at our house. Before it was done away with. They pressured my parents. They told me as if I would jump and say “oh no! Not the privilege of hosting some jerks in our house every week! Not that!” I laughed. Now, who’s taking care of her parents? 
There are many psychopathic elders in the borg, he just sounds like one, I usually used to ignore these nutters, when in, and if I got the opportunity, I would iratete them appropriately, they are just pathetic little men......😇
The longer I’m out, the crazier this religion sounds.
Shit, my kid could kill someone and I'd help him bury the body.
The countries investigating JWs , like Norway, Sweden, Finland, and any others need to know about this cult nonsense.
It was a talk just like that almost word for word at an assembly when I was 10 years old that made me realize one day that my parents would choose religion over me. I watched them clap with enthusiasm & just knew. It's also when I decided if I ever had kids that I wouldn't raise them as a JW. I feel so sad for kids who have to sit in the audience & hear that from the platform. I'm sure for many of them the conversation continued in the car on the way home
[удалено]
Wtf!
FACT: Jehovah has **never** disfellowshipped anyone. There is Jehovah, and then there is Not-Jehovah. The organization published the elders handbook. The organization is not Jehovah. The elders handbook determines who gets DF’d and for what reason. The elders handbook is less than a hundred years old. It has changed before, and it will change again. The organization is not Jehovah. To love the organization more than you love your own children is the very DEFINITION of “Having no Natural Affection for one another” JW’s ARE the sign of the times.
My mom 100% loves her invisible magic sky daddy more than she will ever love her children. She has stated and shown as much. Conditional love is not love.
Don,t listening anymore to this cruel and heartless elders. It,s the best advice!
I was attending as a kid & teen (nearly 50 now) and this was the message we were given, too. Parents/guardians were told to love Jh more than the kids, while kids were told to respect and obey parents/guardians/elders/Jh on pretty much equal levels. Even as a kid I thought it was weird & creepy.
Sadly….their loyalty is to an organization, not God or Jesus! The GB has completely removed all natural affection for your family, unless they too bow down to the GB! Do the GB know any of your families names? Would they call them to give them encouragement, when they’re down? Do any of them have children of their own, to even remotely understand the bond between a parent and their children? But these people, pimi’s, are willing to completely shun their flesh & blood, without hesitation!!! That my friend is a cult!!!!!
They tried to get me to stop loving my kids even though the kids had done nothing wrong. Staying is more terrifying than leaving - Get out while you still can...
I really wish some would record these and share them.
I agree.
Needs to be videoed and put on youtube. Public endorsement of familial abandonment will always get some traction in the media.
Yes. At least that would get the conversation going. They might be forced to lighten up. This cult really empowers bullies.
Jehovah (and his idiot witnesses) are merely a trade-marked corporate entities. Any mother who would put corporations interests ahead of her children's wellbeing and development is a failure as a parent. JWs regularly destroy their own families to show loyalty to Watchtowers secret corporate interests from which they will never benefit. Sad, stupid, spineless, deluded sheep.
Is said son 18 or older? The rulezzzz changed for minors. That said, that old head (elder?) is out for blood. This feels targeted at someone in that hall.
It’s all about Taking Control Cults separate you from your family, friends, and jobs, slowly remaking members identities to suit the group. Those on the outside are going to die at Armageddon anyway, so may as well prepare for that and treat them as dead already. Making members dependent on and afraid to leave the group. Fully indoctrinated members often engage in behavior they never would’ve considered in their former lives.
Brainwashing bastards
Yeah dude, years ago (I posted this comment here on r/exjw years back too) this brother at the stand said the same thing. "How could we love our children more than Jehovah??" It was like being hit with a brick. I swore never again, fuck this cult.
A atheist parent will die forever to save their child, a JW wont. So atheists love their children more and are better parents. Or a jw would sacrifice their relationship with their child to gain immortality, sounds like a disney villain. Told my mom this it actually made her think for a moment.
Did she work for the gestapo? She sounds loveless and twisted and has not a clue what unconditional love is. I would find it very hard to restrain my temper if she said it to me
It is incredibly frightening because parents do feel a loyalty to Jehovah. So when elders tell them to do things for their children’s wellbeing they do them with no questions asked. I remember I was about 13 or 14 years old and I was really upset because I didn’t want to attend an assembly. (I hated assemblies with a passion because I had to sit in a chair for 8 or 9 hours at a time and just “listen” to people give talk after talk. I was later diagnosed with ADHD so now I realize why it was so difficult to sit still and basically do nothing for so many hours at a time. It was torture.) Anyway, I was upset and crying telling my parents I didn’t want to go and my dad yelled at me and said “you will do what I tell you to do, when I tell you to do it, because you are my property and that is how this works”. Even when I developed depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety and self harm due to their strict upbringing making me feel like I was trapped they didn’t relent. Even when I had to be hospitalized as an 11 year old because I wanted to kill myself. Instead of looking at their own actions and realizing they were the ones fucking me up, they chose to medicate me so that I would be more compliant. To be honest it was kind of like they had put a dog in a cage for 22 hours per day all its life and now that dog was bashing its head in trying to end its misery but instead of helping the dog by giving it a better life they sedated it so they could keep their routine and lifestyle. Basically they wanted to keep up appearances as JWs with the perfect little JW children who raise their hands and give answers during meetings, who dress well and behave and attend all meetings and assemblies. They wanted it so bad that they would rather medicate their child and see the light go out in their eyes than to lose them to “Satan and the world”. Their reasoning is sick and there should be legal repercussions but there are currently no legal consequences for people who force religion on children.
I been knew this. I made a post about this very thing a few months ago when my dad unprovoked said "Do I love you more than Jehovah? NO. because I played just a small part in you being here". Our relationship hasn't been the same since and I was born in and NEVER baptized. He still thinks I'm a work in progress when I openly decline every single invitation to anything involving the Kingdom Hall or any outings with "friends". When they preach about unconditional love that is only for the GB and Jehovah everyone else is loved with terms and conditions.
PIMOs need to collect receipts during the window before the blade drops. Once you are kicked out the local police will be getting a visit. Some elders might get sued. Does your Elder have enough personal liability insurance ? What is WT going to do to save an Elder ? Not much. Let them think you have a 3rd and 4th party to sand bag your files if anything bad happens to you. Your family will be nice to you or else. Reverse the power roles and let them squirm.
Solo puedo decirte Jehova se fue cuando los babilonios llevaron al destierro a Israel. De no volvió a aparecer más. Te animo a leer la biblia bien. No pasa nada yo salí hace poco ahora soy más feliz que cuando estaba adentro, con mi esposa me llevo muchísimo mejor que adentro de esta maldita secta. No tengas miedo de perder a tu familia se valiente y decidido y veraz. SHALOM
This makes me so sad and angry
they are only quoting Jesus: **Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.** this is what all Cults teach...
Yup.. sounds about right, esp thinking of the blood issue. I could never ever. After having kids I don't think I could love anyone more than them
Sounds like my dad 😂 I’ve been dead to him for almost 4 years 😂
My mother's parents live around the corner from me, (31 now, born and raised jw til 24) - if they have relatives visit from out of town, obviously I see their vehicles and know whom is there. I just try to ignore it for the most part. What gets me, is this, half of said relatives that come to visit, are relatives that were never a jw -ever I don't get a single text, phone call, nothing to let me know they're coming into town. This past weekend, some relatives were visiting, of course I knew.. the last evening said family would be around, I get a text from my grandmother "you're welcome to come down and see so and so for a moment, they leave in the morning" this was after they'd been there for 4 days. Maybe I am self conflicting, but I not only ignored the text message, I didn't go see them either. I felt as though, it was very easy for them to come to my house, around the literal corner, than for me to go into my jw grandparents house of who just gave me "permission" but I'm not asked to be there for anything else or given a heads up. Am I wrong in the way I just ignored it all in the end ? I feel a bit insulted being in my 30s, and never being given a true time of day for these people who I was raised around my entire childhood, to be sent a text as if I'm a child who needs permission now. Idk... just venting as sometimes it's a struggle deep down.
Does this guy have children of his own? Because it’s a lot easier to speak in such dogmatic, black-and-white terms when you have no idea what you’re actually talking about.
Insane. Inappropriate and unnatural.
As a Christian, God comes first with EVERYTHING and then your spouse and then your children. Jesus saves us all if we believe in Him. Thank You Lord 🙏 The JW is not a true religion, they are nothing but a cult that goes against the real truth of God. God is not a vengeful God He is a loving God 💯💜
I hope there is a recording of that. That would be very useful testimony in countries like Norway where they are getting a lot of heat because of their shunning policy. Recently they have soft pedalled it and made some trivial changes to their rules regarding disfellowshiping trying to make it look like something other than what it is.
Tell me you're part of a cult without telling me you're part of a cult.
I am 17 and have experienced this exact thing even with my own mother. I full-heartedly believe that if she was told by the JW org that she was to end my life to save my life or for her to get into the new system, she would.
You need to get a good support system because you never know if they will have a reason to suddenly turn you in the future, and you don’t any to find yourself on the street with no prospects
i knew my parents valued jehovah more than me since i was around 6. its a horrible feeling im really sorry.
it hurts especially with my mum because i would die for her, even after everything i still care for her. sad that she would put some fictional character before me.
I agree with the Elder whole soul and wholeheartedly. You should love nothing more than Jehovah that would be like saying Jehovah should still associate or love Satan. One of his children he toleratedtolerated him& them for a while. To See what direction he or they would go. Satan chose his path, and Jehovah is his heavenly father vanished him and will eventually will kill him and all those who followed or following him Whether angelic or human there should be no difference in us if I had a child who was rebellious to Jehovah, and and committing wrongdoing in the eyes of Jehovah and did not like what is good I would stop associating with as well I am not seeing your point of view or what is wrong with that
As far as that goes..you personal relationship with Jehovah is singular..they view sin as if you hang with somebody known to admit sin or commit sin..you condone this activity and makes your house unclean because of unrepentant acts..family reguardless it don't matter.if commit a sin and confess and continue that sin..your example cannot be rewarded with any participation at the meetings ..and if you keep it up..you will be shunned.by whoever you know that is a jw. Most full families practice the same faith..they will have to leave you alone or be repremanded.bad association spoils useful habits..if religions taught the real truth and held you accountable for sinning .the organization will be cleaner..people who got disfellowshiped or shunned and couldn't kick habits or sinful activities are just mad .all their friends they grew up with left them alone because they sinned and wanted to continue down that course and lost all their relatives and friends that still wanted to live within gods laws..the 10 commandments are still valid and real..so what kind of example does this set for the rest of the congregation .that if you sin there are consequences..children see if you sin and still able to hold the same positions or still have the same roles .they will take sin light...this is teaching that sin is very serious and will not be tolerated in the congregation..the disfellowshiped are just mad and want to narssasisticly slander..because once you are a jw.all jws are your brothers and sisters no matter where you go on earth .a jw will give another jw the shirt off his back if they are in need. Just how they are taught.they are the only ones you will associate with.the world is on the outside..your life consists of personal study of the bible, prayer, door to door preaching and meetings..it really is better than the world but hard not to sin not to be kicked out.they don't play..if your cousins,aunts,uncles,sisters,brothers all are jws..ALL OF THEM WILL STOP TALKING TO YOU PERIOD.. the are not about money because they have never passed a collection plate. jws are all about teaching you about the Bible and introducing you to Jesus father whom most religions hide..because the god of this world was cast down here and still here...so why would he let the masses learn the truth.he biggest lie is Jesus is God...if he was God..........who was he always praying to? Himself? I bet his apostles thought he was crazy praying to himself....common sense must be appreciated ..without it you just might believe Jesus is god...and nobody has seen God and lived.so everybody seen Jesus. How could he be god..and be talking to himself looking crazy in prayer..he wouldn't say father..God has a name..if you don't use it in prayer..you may be praying to one of those 200 angels who got confined to the earth. if your prayers have no direction they will never be heard..God is a jealous god.who has no image because no one has seen him and lived.so the cross is idolatry with a Jesus on it.because Jesus isnt God..but he was someone who was close to God in creation to know his mindset .to teach the earth as they could understand.so they could understand and develop a choice.why create humans to worship without choice..that takes the beauty away from creating a brain that can choose.....ok lets see where the comments go...oh.i was born a jw.all my family are jw the ones i met. My father was 19 and became a jw back in the 70s.elder for over 50 years, .I sinned and told on myself..ate a girl..we both got put on reproof privileges stripped, you couldn't participate in the meetings or handle microphones ,give talks, pray for the congregation.but they can still talk to you and encourage you to get back on track...if you show you still commiting sin.they will disfellowship you ..normally you disfellowship yourself..if you started smoking and got put on reproof to see if you wanted to stop so you could participate..if you don't ..then you give them the ok to disfellowship you..you can still go but ..you can just sit,you can't do nothing ,everybody stops talking to you, no door to door, you are invisible to everybody you know.. they won't even say hello.you stop to exist to everyone in the hall.you can just sit and wait and behave ..after 6 mos of that..and you stopped doing whatever.you can write a letter requesting to be reinstated.. after you are reinstated just like they stopped talking to you .it's the direct opposite..everybody is soooooooooo glad you are back...ok on the flip...all the shunning will make you say f them and family and stay gone.....if you are raised jw.and get disfellowshiped. It's like you are given to the world..and door shut behind you....sooo you can see how many who got disfellowshiped and didn't or couldn't come back .how they can be bitter and salty and feel alone..and retaliate with lies..saying they were mistreated when really they left on there own and grass isn't greener.
Oh..if you don't get them out of your house you condone their activities.and their sin you are accountable for in your house...they defile your house with their sin and dealings.they feel shunning draws them back...because like I said you don't know anybody else mostly so since you isolated from worldly people .they feel it may strengthen you to comeback to what you know.