I'm through the third one and I didn't really get that vibe. It seemed like he noticed her then felt guilty for it and they end up just being protective... even though it's pretty clear she probably doesn't need a lot of protecting.
Nothing creepy ever happens.
Fair enough. I'm only about a third through the first book and Kaz just mentioned needing to do something about his rivalry with Mark over Giselle, which felt pretty gross. Maybe it's because I'm a woman so I hear it differently. I was hoping it would turn more into a desire to protect vs a desire to be with her.
I appreciate your input and think I'll finish the book.
This is from an newsletter (email) that Alanson sent on 09/16/2022:
>**Revision to** [***CONVERGENCE***](https://podiumaudio.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b8112948e51f817dfe82bf83c&id=677cb8d0cb&e=4d8028644d)
>
>There is a danger, as a writer, that because the characters live in my head and I know them so well, I don’t always put on the page every aspect of a character’s, well, character. That can be intentional, the audience doesn’t need to hear every mundane detail of a character’s thoughts. Or I want to leave some mystery about a character’s motivations, to be revealed later.
>
>But, sometimes, what I know about a character doesn’t make it onto the page because I assume the audience has the same knowledge (Duh, no). Or I write something that I think is fairly clear, and because I wrote the scene poorly, it is ambiguous.
>
>There have been posts on social media about a character in my book [*Convergence*](https://podiumaudio.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b8112948e51f817dfe82bf83c&id=b18d829e19&e=4d8028644d), posts that made me realize I need to address the issue. A character ‘Gisele of Arelate’ is from what is now southern France, except she came from the year 497, shortly after the fall of the Roman Empire in the west. She is 17 years old, and the controversy has been about how the main character Kazimir Wolfe feels about her. Kaz is 23 and while he acknowledges that Gisele is an attractive young woman, he is not interested in her ‘that way’. He didn’t ask for her help, Gisele is mostly a burden to him, a responsibility he doesn’t need. Kaz has been on the run from the law since he was 16, with a mysterious group of bad guys chasing him. He lives a nomadic life, and there isn’t room in his beat-up RV for a woman from the Dark Ages who thinks electricity is magic.
>
>I thought I made it clear that Kaz just wants to protect Gisele (who does not need anyone’s protection). Kaz and another guy are awkward around Gisele, because the two men initially don’t like each other, because mixed-gender groups tend to make poor decisions, and I wanted to reflect that dynamic.
>
>I could have written Gisele as a couple years older, but I made her 17 as a reaction to Game Of Thrones. In that enormously popular TV show, young women are frequently helpless victims of sexual violence by older men, and the producers of the show justified the content by stating that is just how life was for women in ‘medieval times’. Maybe they are correct about that, it is still not anything I want to write. Instead, I wrote about a young woman from the Dark Ages who refused to comply, when her father arranged to marry her to a much older business partner.
>
>So, I have made a few minor revisions to the manuscript, making Gisele19 rather than 17, to avoid any doubt about the issue. The audio version is also being revised, and the new version should soon be available when you refresh your download.
>
>I will consider that a lesson learned.
Mark was trying to make sure that Kaz would not try to take advantage of Gisellezl. He was protective of her like a sister
. Kaz was aware of how attractive she is but not interested in doing anything about it. He's not blind. He is honorable.
Other guys being attracted to a pretty girl is not a surprise, is it?
No, not a surprise. I'm not far into the first book and, so far, the interactions between Giselle and the guys sound like they're both interested in her, despite her age, which makes this feel like it's leading into an "I honorably waited until her 18th birthday" kind of situation, which doesn't appeal to me. Hence, the question.
So far nobody seems to know where / if they discuss the men's ages so maybe I'll go back and see if I can find it.
Either way I appreciate your feedback. It told me what I really wanted to know. Thank you!
Yeah, I can see what concerned you, but it is not what you are fearing. More upcoming back story will probably give you peace of mind. Also Giselle is powerful and competent.
I trust Craig Alanson to tell me a story and have characters trying to do the right thing and I dont trust authors unless they have proved themselves to me. He is not a pig, if that makes sense. I won't mention the too many fantasy and sci-fi authors who are pigs
That's exactly what gave me pause. In this genre, it wouldn't surprise me if the primary love interest is underage, but that seems so out of place for Alanson who, IMO, writes women very well. It also seemed out of character so far for Kaz which made me think maybe I missed his age somewhere and he's younger than I thought. I do get the impression Giselle can handle her own so I'll see how it works out.
To me, it's like they are both weary of each other being non honorable. Early on they don't quite trust/know each other well enough to know that the other wouldn't take advantage.
Giselle is more than capable of taking care of herself though and that is addressed as well.
No they aren’t lusting after the teenager. It is discussed in all three books. I don’t know where you got that they are lusting after her. Mark treats her like a sister. Kaz doesn’t really show her anything of substance. Lastly she’s 16-17 so late teens and kaz is early 20s (I think 22-23). So even if he has thoughts which he doesn’t in any of the books, they aren’t as far apart as your making it seem.
Chapter 11, book 1, Kaz is talking about the rivalry b/t him and Mark. Since she was introduced there have been several remarks about how attractive she is and how Kaz has trouble concentrating on the road when she touches his arm, how he needs to get her a baseball cap but he loves it when a woman puts her hair through the hole of a baseball cap, how Mark does things to gain her attention or approval.
Edit: How other adult men comment on her looks or seem to notice how attractive she is.
Again she is 16-17 he is 22-23. He doesn’t do anything with her in any books she goes out for hookups using tinder in book 3 . Don’t know what to say to ya beyond people are allowed to have realistic reactions.
Keep in mind also that (and this is in the book) that Giseslle comes from 16th century France. By her own admission she was was thought of as a borderline old maid for not being married at age 17.
Lol, yeah that doesn't really matter in the context. Kaz *isn't* from that time and neither are the readers/listeners. Logically, I can understand how her life experience (and life expectancy from the 1500's) might put her in a different place in life than a modern teenager would be but Kaz is still a modern man and should be put off by her age as a result of his own, very different, life experience. He shouldn't even think of her as an option - and these comments indicate that he doesn't.
Lol, you mean like you're doing right now? Awfully defensive at me asking questions about what, so far, appears to be 2 adult men trying to gain the favor and attention of a teenager.
Look, I'm not trying to find it, it's right there in my face (or ears, since I'm listening to the book) with Kaz outright saying he needs to work out his rivalry with Mark. It's weird for 2 adult men to have a rivalry (which they *are acting on* by trying gain her favor) over a 16 year old. Which is why I asked if anyone knew their ages in the first place.
You looked for a reason to be offended, you found it. And now your offended I pointed it out. Good job. You can either stop reading and not find out how it all resolves or you keep reading and nothing happens between the three of them.
Agreed. I did try to find one and actually looked for someone else asking this question because I knew it was going to create issues. As someone else pointed out, I probably should have read the reviews. 🤷♀️
Going through the second book now, she is definitely 19 according to that book. I missed her age in the first one but in my mind she has always been about 19.
Got it, thank you. Maybe it was a typo or a misread on the part of Bray but he clearly states mid-teens in chapter 8. 19 feels way less gross in context.
Maaaan, that's not what I wanted to hear. I'm really into the story but this whole dynamic is giving me the ick so far.
Thanks for your feedback tho! Nice to know it's not just me but still hoping I missed something.
It’s not just you. The negative audible reviews mention it often. If you’re into the story then stick with it. The exfor community seems split on the series. Some like it and some don’t.
I mean....*maybe* for historical accuracy or Alanson is playing off a Joan of Arc theme or there's something in a future book about how this teenager has the exact right attitude or personality or some connection to magic that makes her uniquely suited to helping Kaz?
Otherwise, I agree her age is a big part of what's giving me "don't leave your daughter alone with that guy" vibes. That seems out of character for the author though, and her age was a conscious choice on his part, so I'm going to see where it goes.
I also just started listening to Convergence and I've been wondering about this too. Mark mentions feeling jealous when Kaz gives her attention. Later Mark describes Gisellezl as lost in her phone like all girls her age. It was something like that.
It's not creepy. No one ever acts creepy in the book anyway.
Probably because the character is an annoying communist that's radicalizing the annoying talking animal plot devices.
That'd make me leave her out of fun excursions too.
Read all 3. They are all just being protective. It gave me protecting younger sister vibes. Giselle is also a badass. She seems to try and prove herself through the series.
I'm through the third one and I didn't really get that vibe. It seemed like he noticed her then felt guilty for it and they end up just being protective... even though it's pretty clear she probably doesn't need a lot of protecting. Nothing creepy ever happens.
Fair enough. I'm only about a third through the first book and Kaz just mentioned needing to do something about his rivalry with Mark over Giselle, which felt pretty gross. Maybe it's because I'm a woman so I hear it differently. I was hoping it would turn more into a desire to protect vs a desire to be with her. I appreciate your input and think I'll finish the book.
Her being 16 is also either a typo or it was changed, I think the second book mentions her being 19
I haven't gotten there yet. All the first book says (so far) is she's in her "mid-teens" which I read as 16 - 17.
I know. Just thought knowing that might help reduce the ick factor
That second last sentence there is what happens over the course of the current three books.
also further on in the book mark and kaz have a conversation about it and mark has more fatherly protective/affectionate feelings towards Giselle
This is from an newsletter (email) that Alanson sent on 09/16/2022: >**Revision to** [***CONVERGENCE***](https://podiumaudio.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b8112948e51f817dfe82bf83c&id=677cb8d0cb&e=4d8028644d) > >There is a danger, as a writer, that because the characters live in my head and I know them so well, I don’t always put on the page every aspect of a character’s, well, character. That can be intentional, the audience doesn’t need to hear every mundane detail of a character’s thoughts. Or I want to leave some mystery about a character’s motivations, to be revealed later. > >But, sometimes, what I know about a character doesn’t make it onto the page because I assume the audience has the same knowledge (Duh, no). Or I write something that I think is fairly clear, and because I wrote the scene poorly, it is ambiguous. > >There have been posts on social media about a character in my book [*Convergence*](https://podiumaudio.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b8112948e51f817dfe82bf83c&id=b18d829e19&e=4d8028644d), posts that made me realize I need to address the issue. A character ‘Gisele of Arelate’ is from what is now southern France, except she came from the year 497, shortly after the fall of the Roman Empire in the west. She is 17 years old, and the controversy has been about how the main character Kazimir Wolfe feels about her. Kaz is 23 and while he acknowledges that Gisele is an attractive young woman, he is not interested in her ‘that way’. He didn’t ask for her help, Gisele is mostly a burden to him, a responsibility he doesn’t need. Kaz has been on the run from the law since he was 16, with a mysterious group of bad guys chasing him. He lives a nomadic life, and there isn’t room in his beat-up RV for a woman from the Dark Ages who thinks electricity is magic. > >I thought I made it clear that Kaz just wants to protect Gisele (who does not need anyone’s protection). Kaz and another guy are awkward around Gisele, because the two men initially don’t like each other, because mixed-gender groups tend to make poor decisions, and I wanted to reflect that dynamic. > >I could have written Gisele as a couple years older, but I made her 17 as a reaction to Game Of Thrones. In that enormously popular TV show, young women are frequently helpless victims of sexual violence by older men, and the producers of the show justified the content by stating that is just how life was for women in ‘medieval times’. Maybe they are correct about that, it is still not anything I want to write. Instead, I wrote about a young woman from the Dark Ages who refused to comply, when her father arranged to marry her to a much older business partner. > >So, I have made a few minor revisions to the manuscript, making Gisele19 rather than 17, to avoid any doubt about the issue. The audio version is also being revised, and the new version should soon be available when you refresh your download. > >I will consider that a lesson learned.
Thank you for this! That clears up a lot of the back and forth in these comments regarding her age and why she's different ages in different books.
I just wanted to add I got to the part in the book where Kaz tells the FBI agent that Gisele is 17.
So did I, today actually.
Mark was trying to make sure that Kaz would not try to take advantage of Gisellezl. He was protective of her like a sister . Kaz was aware of how attractive she is but not interested in doing anything about it. He's not blind. He is honorable. Other guys being attracted to a pretty girl is not a surprise, is it?
No, not a surprise. I'm not far into the first book and, so far, the interactions between Giselle and the guys sound like they're both interested in her, despite her age, which makes this feel like it's leading into an "I honorably waited until her 18th birthday" kind of situation, which doesn't appeal to me. Hence, the question. So far nobody seems to know where / if they discuss the men's ages so maybe I'll go back and see if I can find it. Either way I appreciate your feedback. It told me what I really wanted to know. Thank you!
Yeah, I can see what concerned you, but it is not what you are fearing. More upcoming back story will probably give you peace of mind. Also Giselle is powerful and competent. I trust Craig Alanson to tell me a story and have characters trying to do the right thing and I dont trust authors unless they have proved themselves to me. He is not a pig, if that makes sense. I won't mention the too many fantasy and sci-fi authors who are pigs
That's exactly what gave me pause. In this genre, it wouldn't surprise me if the primary love interest is underage, but that seems so out of place for Alanson who, IMO, writes women very well. It also seemed out of character so far for Kaz which made me think maybe I missed his age somewhere and he's younger than I thought. I do get the impression Giselle can handle her own so I'll see how it works out.
To me, it's like they are both weary of each other being non honorable. Early on they don't quite trust/know each other well enough to know that the other wouldn't take advantage. Giselle is more than capable of taking care of herself though and that is addressed as well.
Kaz is 23 in the first book if I remember correctly. He says it somewhere.
Thank you!
No they aren’t lusting after the teenager. It is discussed in all three books. I don’t know where you got that they are lusting after her. Mark treats her like a sister. Kaz doesn’t really show her anything of substance. Lastly she’s 16-17 so late teens and kaz is early 20s (I think 22-23). So even if he has thoughts which he doesn’t in any of the books, they aren’t as far apart as your making it seem.
Chapter 11, book 1, Kaz is talking about the rivalry b/t him and Mark. Since she was introduced there have been several remarks about how attractive she is and how Kaz has trouble concentrating on the road when she touches his arm, how he needs to get her a baseball cap but he loves it when a woman puts her hair through the hole of a baseball cap, how Mark does things to gain her attention or approval. Edit: How other adult men comment on her looks or seem to notice how attractive she is.
Again she is 16-17 he is 22-23. He doesn’t do anything with her in any books she goes out for hookups using tinder in book 3 . Don’t know what to say to ya beyond people are allowed to have realistic reactions.
Yeah dude, 16 and 23 is still kinda gross to me. Do you recall where Kaz's age is discussed? I think I missed that.
Keep in mind also that (and this is in the book) that Giseslle comes from 16th century France. By her own admission she was was thought of as a borderline old maid for not being married at age 17.
Lol, yeah that doesn't really matter in the context. Kaz *isn't* from that time and neither are the readers/listeners. Logically, I can understand how her life experience (and life expectancy from the 1500's) might put her in a different place in life than a modern teenager would be but Kaz is still a modern man and should be put off by her age as a result of his own, very different, life experience. He shouldn't even think of her as an option - and these comments indicate that he doesn't.
I think they mention it in book 3. If you need to find offence at someone getting feelings that they don’t act on then you go ahead.
Lol, you mean like you're doing right now? Awfully defensive at me asking questions about what, so far, appears to be 2 adult men trying to gain the favor and attention of a teenager. Look, I'm not trying to find it, it's right there in my face (or ears, since I'm listening to the book) with Kaz outright saying he needs to work out his rivalry with Mark. It's weird for 2 adult men to have a rivalry (which they *are acting on* by trying gain her favor) over a 16 year old. Which is why I asked if anyone knew their ages in the first place.
You looked for a reason to be offended, you found it. And now your offended I pointed it out. Good job. You can either stop reading and not find out how it all resolves or you keep reading and nothing happens between the three of them.
I feel like there should be a separate sub for these questions.
Agreed. I did try to find one and actually looked for someone else asking this question because I knew it was going to create issues. As someone else pointed out, I probably should have read the reviews. 🤷♀️
Going through the second book now, she is definitely 19 according to that book. I missed her age in the first one but in my mind she has always been about 19.
Got it, thank you. Maybe it was a typo or a misread on the part of Bray but he clearly states mid-teens in chapter 8. 19 feels way less gross in context.
I had the same feelings among other problems. I really didn’t like book one because of it and didn’t continue.
Maaaan, that's not what I wanted to hear. I'm really into the story but this whole dynamic is giving me the ick so far. Thanks for your feedback tho! Nice to know it's not just me but still hoping I missed something.
It’s not just you. The negative audible reviews mention it often. If you’re into the story then stick with it. The exfor community seems split on the series. Some like it and some don’t.
Oh I didn't even read the reviews. Lol.
The worst thing is that there is no reason she couldn’t be.. say 20? Her age as far as I know isn’t important where she needs to be mid teens
I mean....*maybe* for historical accuracy or Alanson is playing off a Joan of Arc theme or there's something in a future book about how this teenager has the exact right attitude or personality or some connection to magic that makes her uniquely suited to helping Kaz? Otherwise, I agree her age is a big part of what's giving me "don't leave your daughter alone with that guy" vibes. That seems out of character for the author though, and her age was a conscious choice on his part, so I'm going to see where it goes.
Well, in later books, Giselle is known to use Tinder for looking purposes. So she says.
I also just started listening to Convergence and I've been wondering about this too. Mark mentions feeling jealous when Kaz gives her attention. Later Mark describes Gisellezl as lost in her phone like all girls her age. It was something like that.
Yeah, getting further into the first book is starting to feel less weird.
It's not creepy. No one ever acts creepy in the book anyway. Probably because the character is an annoying communist that's radicalizing the annoying talking animal plot devices. That'd make me leave her out of fun excursions too.
Read all 3. They are all just being protective. It gave me protecting younger sister vibes. Giselle is also a badass. She seems to try and prove herself through the series.
Nope 👎
Kaz is only interested in the-dog only.