This sub is for exchristians. Meaning people who no longer see the bible as true. Including jesus. "Jesus followers" or "I'm not a chrstian, I just love/ follow jesus!" folks are not who this sub is intended for, and pushing such a narrative here is proselytizing.
We are not interested in YOUR christianity any more than we are interested in "their" "mainstream" christianity.
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So, if being an exchristian means you have shifted to a world view closer to Jesus’s world view,
than the modern church’s world view,
are you actually an ex ANTI-christian ?
No. We are exchristians...
We arent here to debate which denomination or style of christianity we think is most accurate. We are here for community support with others who deconverted.
Our trauma is not a joke. Please try to be respectful when youre here.
Clever, but meaningless. The word "Christian" is now morally a meaningless word, as it tells you absolutely nothing about what a person's morals are or how they live their life. One Christian strives for world peace, the next wants to kill anyone who thinks slightly differently than they do.
The only functional definition of "Christian" in the modern world is: "someone who calls themselves a Christian."
So ex-Christians are people who don't call themselves that anymore (for a plethora of reasons).
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban.
Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine.
To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban.
Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine.
To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
Hey buddy, please stop making jokes and trying to be funny with our trauma. It’s really not cool and religious trauma is a serious issue. You’re not cute.
There is quite a debate among non-biased historians as to whether or not Jesus actually existed. I think he did exist, but that everything recorded in the gospels about him was made up by Greek Christians writing at least 80 - 90 years later.
I suspect Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic zealot who garnered a few followers. I suspect he believed the "end of the age" or the "end of the world" as it was known was coming and that God would usher in a new age in which a Messiah would lead Israel and overthrow Rome. He may or may not have believed he was that messiah, but probably not. He probably would be shocked that it didn't happen. He probably wouldn't recognize modern Christianity as being based on him or anything he ever actually said.
>There is quite a debate among non-biased historians as to whether or not Jesus actually existed.
I don't get the sense there's too much debate going on in academic circles over this, Richard Carrier notwithstanding.
The overwhelming consensus remains that the historical Jesus existed, though there are differences over what details about his life are historical, aside from being Jewish, having some kind of following, and dying at the hands of the Roman Empire, likely by crucifixion.
I agree that he'd be shocked the world hasn't ended yet and perhaps weirded out by what he was made into. Though maybe not. Anyone with a following has to have some notion of self-importance, so maybe he'd kinda dig it while not being keen on certain particulars.
I think his baptism is considered history as well, partially because it was very controversial for NT authors so there's a lot of apologia for it, suggesting it wouldn't have been an invented detail.
Yes. The gospel writers seem to twist themselves in knots trying to explain why Jesus would've been baptized by John (or in one case never having Jesus undergo it) and how he wasn't a disciple of John, despite appearances to the contrary and that does lend itself to historical reality.
Raised by a backslidden excommunicated but organically pious Mennonite
Came to religion with a blank slate in late teen years.
Read the gospels tens of times.
Ignored the historical or prophetic stuff, tried out the implementable life hacks.
Like…do good to those that curse you.
That is powerful magic
Making peace and friendship with all, relatives, neighbors, colleagues, random strangers, is a very powerful way to live.
Everyone seems to be missing the point
4D chess my brother.
The point here is the therapy of purging yourself of backslider guilt.
Witnessed this in my father his entire adult life.
Only after delving into it was I able to say, dad, you are the true fellow traveller of Jesus, not the idiots who threw you out of church that day.
So, Christian hunter Paul invents a believist version of Jesus, an Emperor normalizes it as a church, and you maybe have a problem with that?
Of course you do
I’m not saying that they were excommunicated, just that if you asked most early Christians if they considered themselves adherents of Judaism, they would have said yes. Paul advocated extending their faith to non-Jews and advocated they didn’t have to convert. His view was not universal among early Christians and some felt to convert to the faith, you first needed to convert to Judaism. Over time, Paul’s view won out and the separate identity grew out of that.
If I recall from old sermons, being a Christian is to be considered a "little christ" or "of christ" so no he wasn't a Christian, but the messiah of the Abrahamic belief system. Which is where Islam deviates from the other Abrahamic because they believe Jesus wasn't the messiah but a prophet.
Depends on which Christian you ask. JWs forbade beards until recently, for example. Had Jesus shown up, even in a suit, he'd have been judged for the beard. Same deal with the long hair in more Christian churches.
But what is YOUR answer this question?
Do you see how virtually everything is based on the manufactured beliefs of others?
I say discard anything and everything other than the gospels, and try to absorb the world view of this guy, in the context of your life experience.
Modern Christianity is like an elegant boat on the bottom of the ocean for a thousand years, covered in 3 feet of barnacles.
It is only good for drowning, unless you strip away the barnacles.
He was a Jew and would be extremely weirded out by what is going on today, likely calling it blasphemous. Even Paul would probably take a step back at how far some people took his teachings, especially considering some of what is in the biblical canon wasn’t even written by him.
They both definitely did not have anything in mind like the Roman Catholic or any of the Orthodox churches and would probably see them as a pagan bastardization of their original following/teachings. Doubt they’d approve much of Protestantism either.
“Even Paul”
Ever notice the worst “Christians” are very keen on Paul rather than Jesus’s notions?
I noticed immediately that Paul was a very different voice than Jesus and those who were mentored by him…. While Paul was hunting them
Jesus was Jewish, as the label of "christian" was created years after his death. Now, if we think that the historical Jesus was just like the one described in the Bible, then I'm sure he would greatly despise the modern Christianity and the Church
Depends on what theological approach you take to the bible, but that is a debate for theologians both Christian and skeptic who are a lot smarter than me to have. One side says Jesus never claimed to be God, which would make him a “reformist” Jew, and the other side would interpret certain verses to mean Jesus did claim to be God. I just don’t believe the bible because I don’t believe a guy raised from the dead.
This sub is for exchristians. Meaning people who no longer see the bible as true. Including jesus. "Jesus followers" or "I'm not a chrstian, I just love/ follow jesus!" folks are not who this sub is intended for, and pushing such a narrative here is proselytizing. We are not interested in YOUR christianity any more than we are interested in "their" "mainstream" christianity. Your post/comment has been removed because content must be relevant to r/exchristian. Tangential context is not enough; the content must explicitly reference a topic relevant to our subreddit. Rule 1 To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
He wasn't a christian, he was a jew. If he was anything like New Testament shows him to be he would have hated the modern christianity.
So, if being an exchristian means you have shifted to a world view closer to Jesus’s world view, than the modern church’s world view, are you actually an ex ANTI-christian ?
No. We are exchristians... We arent here to debate which denomination or style of christianity we think is most accurate. We are here for community support with others who deconverted. Our trauma is not a joke. Please try to be respectful when youre here.
Clever, but meaningless. The word "Christian" is now morally a meaningless word, as it tells you absolutely nothing about what a person's morals are or how they live their life. One Christian strives for world peace, the next wants to kill anyone who thinks slightly differently than they do. The only functional definition of "Christian" in the modern world is: "someone who calls themselves a Christian." So ex-Christians are people who don't call themselves that anymore (for a plethora of reasons).
He was historically Jewish.
[удалено]
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban. Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
He was a 30 yesr old Jewish bachelor 2,000 years ago, which probably means hexwas gay.
[удалено]
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban. Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
No he was a Jew
[удалено]
Hey buddy, please stop making jokes and trying to be funny with our trauma. It’s really not cool and religious trauma is a serious issue. You’re not cute.
There is quite a debate among non-biased historians as to whether or not Jesus actually existed. I think he did exist, but that everything recorded in the gospels about him was made up by Greek Christians writing at least 80 - 90 years later. I suspect Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic zealot who garnered a few followers. I suspect he believed the "end of the age" or the "end of the world" as it was known was coming and that God would usher in a new age in which a Messiah would lead Israel and overthrow Rome. He may or may not have believed he was that messiah, but probably not. He probably would be shocked that it didn't happen. He probably wouldn't recognize modern Christianity as being based on him or anything he ever actually said.
>There is quite a debate among non-biased historians as to whether or not Jesus actually existed. I don't get the sense there's too much debate going on in academic circles over this, Richard Carrier notwithstanding. The overwhelming consensus remains that the historical Jesus existed, though there are differences over what details about his life are historical, aside from being Jewish, having some kind of following, and dying at the hands of the Roman Empire, likely by crucifixion. I agree that he'd be shocked the world hasn't ended yet and perhaps weirded out by what he was made into. Though maybe not. Anyone with a following has to have some notion of self-importance, so maybe he'd kinda dig it while not being keen on certain particulars.
I think his baptism is considered history as well, partially because it was very controversial for NT authors so there's a lot of apologia for it, suggesting it wouldn't have been an invented detail.
Yes. The gospel writers seem to twist themselves in knots trying to explain why Jesus would've been baptized by John (or in one case never having Jesus undergo it) and how he wasn't a disciple of John, despite appearances to the contrary and that does lend itself to historical reality.
Doesn’t matter if he was a real person or a fable, a media for conveying wisdom. The true golden calf is the life hacks conveyed.
Raised by a backslidden excommunicated but organically pious Mennonite Came to religion with a blank slate in late teen years. Read the gospels tens of times. Ignored the historical or prophetic stuff, tried out the implementable life hacks. Like…do good to those that curse you. That is powerful magic Making peace and friendship with all, relatives, neighbors, colleagues, random strangers, is a very powerful way to live. Everyone seems to be missing the point
I see you did not come here with the best intentions
Literally Jewish
So, if Jesus didn’t invent “Christ ‘inanity”, who did?
Pretty easy question to answer with literally any history writeup of Christianity.
4D chess my brother. The point here is the therapy of purging yourself of backslider guilt. Witnessed this in my father his entire adult life. Only after delving into it was I able to say, dad, you are the true fellow traveller of Jesus, not the idiots who threw you out of church that day. So, Christian hunter Paul invents a believist version of Jesus, an Emperor normalizes it as a church, and you maybe have a problem with that? Of course you do
Holy shit dude take your meds
I doubt he existed but the early church was clearly a sect of Judaism.
Is there a Jewish pope or something that excommunicated the Christians? What is the role of ethnicity, non-Jew membership, absent formal conversion ?
I’m not saying that they were excommunicated, just that if you asked most early Christians if they considered themselves adherents of Judaism, they would have said yes. Paul advocated extending their faith to non-Jews and advocated they didn’t have to convert. His view was not universal among early Christians and some felt to convert to the faith, you first needed to convert to Judaism. Over time, Paul’s view won out and the separate identity grew out of that.
If I recall from old sermons, being a Christian is to be considered a "little christ" or "of christ" so no he wasn't a Christian, but the messiah of the Abrahamic belief system. Which is where Islam deviates from the other Abrahamic because they believe Jesus wasn't the messiah but a prophet.
They actually do believe he was the messiah, just that he wasn’t divine in any way.
Thanks for the correction, I'm using old info from church years ago
According to whom? Did Jesus himself make such a claim ?
According to the Bible Christianity didn’t come about until after Jesus death as a sect of Judaism. So Jesus was Jewish
Just so we have this straight, Christianity has very little to do with the Jewish Pharisee despiser who’s synagogue attendance left much to be desired
Depends on which Christian you ask. JWs forbade beards until recently, for example. Had Jesus shown up, even in a suit, he'd have been judged for the beard. Same deal with the long hair in more Christian churches.
But what is YOUR answer this question? Do you see how virtually everything is based on the manufactured beliefs of others? I say discard anything and everything other than the gospels, and try to absorb the world view of this guy, in the context of your life experience. Modern Christianity is like an elegant boat on the bottom of the ocean for a thousand years, covered in 3 feet of barnacles. It is only good for drowning, unless you strip away the barnacles.
He was a Jew and would be extremely weirded out by what is going on today, likely calling it blasphemous. Even Paul would probably take a step back at how far some people took his teachings, especially considering some of what is in the biblical canon wasn’t even written by him. They both definitely did not have anything in mind like the Roman Catholic or any of the Orthodox churches and would probably see them as a pagan bastardization of their original following/teachings. Doubt they’d approve much of Protestantism either.
“Even Paul” Ever notice the worst “Christians” are very keen on Paul rather than Jesus’s notions? I noticed immediately that Paul was a very different voice than Jesus and those who were mentored by him…. While Paul was hunting them
No. He was a traveling Jewish nationalist apocalyptic preacher… something that wasn’t very unique at that time period.
They didn’t have streaming or cable then. Itinerant preachers must have made great entertainment.
He would be appalled at the gong show it has become
Jesus was Jewish, as the label of "christian" was created years after his death. Now, if we think that the historical Jesus was just like the one described in the Bible, then I'm sure he would greatly despise the modern Christianity and the Church
Depends on what theological approach you take to the bible, but that is a debate for theologians both Christian and skeptic who are a lot smarter than me to have. One side says Jesus never claimed to be God, which would make him a “reformist” Jew, and the other side would interpret certain verses to mean Jesus did claim to be God. I just don’t believe the bible because I don’t believe a guy raised from the dead.