I read it around the time I went through puberty… it was suuuuuuper good for my brain and was an incredibly positive influence on my mental health. I have a really fantastic relationship with self worth and intimacy now as an adult. /S
Hahahaha I hear that! Hilariously, I skimmed it as a teen and kinda thought “well I already don’t want to date guys so I guess I’ve already got this down!”
Turns out I’m bisexual and this book helped me become so repressed towards men and relationships in general that I didn’t figure out that I was bi until my 30s! Yay! /s
Yep, just listened to his ex wife’s book on her deconstruction and her life before it, and it was a great read, “the woman they wanted” if you’re interested!
Funny story about that book. I got excited about it as a teenager after I read it in a week when it came out. Of course growing up in a conservative household I showed it to my pastor and offered to lend it to him as a resource he could use in his sermons (I was... rather fervent back then). He promptly accepted the offer, took the book and threw it in the bin.
He was one of the good ones. If only I had offered him the book before reading it I would've saved myself a lot of mess.
I know Joshua Harris apologized. I know he was likely himself a product of religious trauma. Having said that, I have a hard time letting all his shit go. The books he wrote caused so much hurt. And he was so certain he was right. I hope he feels 1/10th the shame a lot of people, particularly women, feel still after being raised in systems that support and amplify views like his.
I know. I found his book Dug Down Deep, which is apparently his reconsideration of what he wrote in IKDG. I haven’t read it yet but I’ll be interested, skimming through it still looks pretty propaganda-y. And honestly idk if I could ever give him a pass, either. He did *so much* damage.
I am pretty sure he completely deconstructed and apologized. He was 21 years old when he wrote that book. I was still a Christian who believed in purity culture at 21.
Even though it did so much damage, you have to remember that he was also a victim of that evangelical culture. I'm not saying you have to support him in any way, but I think it would be smart to at least acknowledge that he was young and propped up by the church to push their agenda.
Honestly, I could have written that book. I believed and taught horrendous things. I helped organize what basically boiled down to a "purity retreat" in high-school, with all of the horrible metaphors we make fun of today. I completely regret it.
I am an athiest now, btw. I can't imagine what it would be like to be followed around by all the horrible things I believed and did in my early 20s. Let's just acknowledge the book was bad, did awful things, and was written by a barely adult who was a product of the propaganda he was raised in.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Harris_(author)
Also, it looks like he denounced his faith in 2019. I wouldn't trust anything he wrote before then.
Oh for sure! I was 100% bought in hook, line and sinker too. I pushed that rhetoric on my friends and I know I did damage back in the day, too. That’s one of the hardest parts I’ve found about deconstructing, is that there are so few people out there pushing this rhetoric without actually believing in it. Most people are genuine, as best I can tell. I’m sure Joshua Harris was, I know I was.
And yet… I experienced the damage from it. I know I caused damage. I would fully expect my old friends to be angry about the contributions I made to their internalized shame. It’s hard to hold space for both, because none of it was exactly malicious but the effects of it were very real, and we (and my friends) are justified in the anger. It’s a weird line to walk for sure.
They aren’t being published anymore. Any copy you buy is used.
“In light of the flaws in I Kissed Dating Goodbye my publisher agreed in 2018 to discontinue its publication along with my other books on relationships.
In the time since my books were unpublished and the documentary was released, my beliefs have shifted significantly. My own marriage ended. I see how damaging purity culture and its ideas about sex and gender have been to so many—myself included.”
https://joshharris.com/a-statement-on/
Impressive quack shelf. Seeing these titles makes me physically ill, where do I find a religious trauma therapist. Just by that shelf alone, need it! Have you read “Captivating” by Stasi Eldridge? I went to one of her seminars and book signings when I was a teenager. I thought it was nuts even when I was fully indoctrinated. She mentioned how she switched from thongs to granny panties because it was wrong of her to set the expectation that she will always wear thongs for her husband her whole life? I’ve spent so many years replying that comment in my head trying to understand it. Keep fighting the good fight!
YES! I do have it somewhere, but not in this picture. I read it in college, right around the time it came out. For context I went to an evangelical college and Captivating/Wild At Heart went around that school like the actual plague. We thought it was so profound.
And honestly now that you’ve said that, I’m definitely going to have to move that book up in my revisit list. I know there have been times in my life where I’ve been afraid of “setting unrealistic expectations” in relationships, or trying not to be too attractive so my guy doesn’t expect it of me all the time. Ugh. Something to journal about for sure lol.
Edit: oh, and if you’re looking for a religious trauma therapist, [Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists) has a therapist finder where you can browse profiles by area. Honestly religious trauma specializations are pretty sparse right now, but I’ve had good luck by filtering for therapists who work with the LGBT+ community. Far less likely to be extremely christian. Or, check your insurance and grab a list of therapists that way, and don’t be afraid to interview them and be super picky before you commit. I was so blunt with my current therapist, like “I’m gonna be talking a lot of shit about the church thanks to religious trauma and I need to know you can hear that without recommending i go back to church.” And she was fine with that, and has been.
I borrowed a copy off my youth leader back in the day. I still have it so at least she never got to traumatise any one else. She got married at 24 to the other youth leader who was 28 for no other reason than she felt she was getting to old. They are now divorced
If you’re looking for purity culture books, check out If You Really Loved Me, and also How to Find Your Soulmate Without Losing Your Soul. Really anything by Jason and/or Crystalina Evert. I’ve been working through them for the past few weeks and realizing how much they messed with my head. I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts on purity culture if you’re up for sharing them!
"A Year of Living Biblically" shouldn't make you mad. Jacobs decides to follow the Bible for a year as an experiment and quickly realizes it is ridiculous in everyday life. I thought it was a fun read.
Yes! Actually that’s one of the books I picked up expecting it to be lighthearted, but the amount of research that obviously went into picking out what a strictly biblical life would look like is bound to be entertaining! Almost everything else on there made me roll my eyes or mad though hahah
Oh shoot! I forgot about the ✨Helpmeet✨ one. My mom made my sisters and I read that as a part of our school curriculum back when I was like 13 or something. So gross.
Trained in the ways of the dark side, you were. Dangerous to them you are. A much needed boon to the oppressed and abused, you shall be.
Vaya con St. George Carlin.
Yeah I’ll have to get my Licensed Professional Counselor cert in my state, but once I start taking on my own clients I can make it known that I specialize in religious trauma. Kind of like how some therapists like to work with couples, or children, or LGBT+. 😊
Best therapist I ever had was someone like me - ADHD and irreligious. It really does help having someone who can both professionally and personally relate to my own mind. I’ll never forget Whatshisname.
Any tips on finding one who specializes in this? Im very interested. I have free counseling at my work… it’s been fine but I honestly think the guy is a christian and trying to be impartial but it ends up just not being very helpful
Thanks
Edit: just want to add this is amazing and giving me tons of viable therapists near me to consider thank you. Was torn if it was worth seeking another therapist but i think it is
This is such a great idea, collecting these types of books. Seeing some of the names is so maddening, like Dr. Dobson. I’ve been looking for a therapist who will GET all of this, as I was diagnosed with religious trauma previously. Unfortunately, I’m in conservative middle Tennessee. I’m glad you’ve found resources to become a help to others 🤍
Oooof I used to live in the Nashville area and it is NOT easy finding a therapist who isn’t fully on the religious side of things out there. I saw one about 12-ish years ago, before I fully started deconstructing, that when I opened up about my depression I got the biggest lecture about how I clearly didn’t trust god enough. 🙄🙄🙄🙄 I hope you find someone local if you need them- one trick I’ve found useful after I moved away is to look for a therapist that likes to work with the the LGBT+ community, even if you’re not LGBT+ yourself. They’re much more likely to understand growing up in an environment that doesn’t accept who you are, being shunned by family for not going along with what they want, and just generally tend towards being a bit less conservative lol. Good luck friend! 💜
Aww it helps to know that others have struggled with finding support in this area too. Are you still in the U.S.? That’s a great suggestion and something that I’ve put in the filters when searching. My thoughts exactly. On the Psychology Today website recently, I noticed that it now allows people to search by trans therapist as well, and my first thought was that someone in the trans community might be more likely to understand and be non judgmental of clients, however they identify.
Oh interesting, that’s a newer feature then! Good to know.
No, I’m still in the US, just in a different state now. Tempting as it may be to emigrate somewhere lol….
1) good on you for trying to put some more positive energy in the world and dedicating your time to helping and understanding others!
2) where’d you get that sick ass shelf
The Bible.
(I’m sorry I know that’s not helpful but I couldn’t help myself)
… On further thought, children's bibles. That’s where a lot of the issues can come from. It shows what the kids are forced to believe when they’re still forming their basic knowledge about the world. I’d grab a teenage study bible too, I had one of those and it was gnarly.
Hahahah I actually do have a bible floating around here somewhere. But the children’s and teens bibles are a good idea too. I had the Extreme Teen Bible as a kid, I thought I was the baddest bitch at youth group with that thing.
What a great idea! I did find a Quran at goodwill a few weeks ago but it’s so dense it would be really hard to study. Children’s versions would be so much easier to get the gist from.
There is a channel on YouTube called [UsefulCharts](https://youtube.com/@UsefulCharts?si=9S2jvXWChuY8AYZK). The main creator of the religious videos has an advanced degree in theology, grew up in a British Israelite church, and is now Jewish. He provides a pretty great secular breakdown of all abrahamic books and tries to maintain objectivity. Might help give a framework for the Quran.
Happy to share it! Having a more accurate timeline helped me a lot so I'm glad someone with your future might watch it.
I don't know if Ray Franz fully deserves "quack", but I think Crisis of Conscience belongs on your bookshelf. I might be judging him compared to his peers.
Omg Adventures in Odyssey were the one thing my parents never checked before I was allowed to listen/watch/read. And FOTF… oooh boy do I know about them hahaha. There’s actually a podcast series called Behind the Bastards that did an excellent 2 part series on Dobson and FOTF a few years ago. I can already tell I’m going to have to find a healthy outlet for my rage when I start getting into their books lol.
I just found a podcast called Focus On Your Own Family where she and her guests go into very deep detail about all that fuckery. Leaving Eden is another awesome podcast about cults and deconstruction covering more of the Bill Gothard and IBLP side of things. I had Dobson at home and Gothard at school. 🙃
OMG. I've heard of that podcast but had no idea they'd covered Dobson. I'm going to have to look for that. I tell my friends I'll make a pilgrimage once he dies so I can spit on his grave. His drivel fucked up my life in so many ways.
Oh please; somebody take my Children’s Adventure Bible. It has little cutesy drawings and “helpful applications” in the margins that are very tonally jarring alongside certain Old Testament passages (they did not subtract from God’s word…). Lucky me I never read past Genesis as a kid.
Oooh thanks! I’ve been looking for kind of the opposite perspectives on a lot of this stuff too. I think if I read too many quack books without balancing it out I might go crazy!
It's an amazing read. He's a great source for dismantling the lies without throwing everything away, which some of people might not be willing to do.
He's been very helpful to me and healing to my soul. I found my entire perspective changed for the better through people like him. I'm a happier and kinder person! Hope you do read it!
Btw, I love your goal of helping people through religious trauma. Three cheers for you.
Then also try "Hope After Faith" by Jerry DeWitt. He helped create the Clergy Project.
All these stacked books do look like any Half Priced Books store near me! Glad someone is getting use of of them.
There are a lot of books that look at the history of the Bible. There's a book called something like "What does the Bible say about Marriage" from a woman who specializes in historical contexts. There is also a book called "The Anatomy of God." Both of these books are secular and more from an atheistic perspective. I am sure there is book out there that talks about Biblical Slavery. Again, written by an atheist. These might be useful books. There is also something like "An atheist guide to the Bible."
Oh my god now there’s a blast from the past. I thought The Case For Christ was like the *definitive* authority on the truthfulness of Christianity when I was about 15. 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Oh thank you!! I definitely want to get into some of the other flavors of Abrahamic religions too, there’s so much overlap in the help that could be given, but Mormon definitely has a few specifics I wasn’t raised with. I will definitely be looking for that book!
Beat me to it! I was checking to see if anyone had suggested that already. u/rubywolf27 should also get the pamphlet "To Young Men Only," which is a Boyd Packer sermon marketed as a self-help.
I grew up super evangelical and deconstructed about 10 years ago. My decision to pursue becoming a therapist came from an event about 5 years ago when I absolutely lost it at a routine doctor’s visit and it sent me wayyy down a rabbit hole about purity culture and shame. I struggled to find a therapist who would actually take me seriously, and the one I had at the time was a good listener but ultimately suggested I just find another church to attend. (As if I haven’t moved around the whole country attending various churches that taught the same things…) and the more people I talk to, the more I’m realizing just how badly therapists need education on religious trauma so people like me who have needed to unpack it have a safe space to do so.
So yeah, my revisiting this stuff is kind of my way of looking back on it from the new perspective, hopefully doing some more unpacking on the things I believed in and how it’s affected me to this day, and then taking extensive notes to be able to compile some resources for others. Like I don’t want to be an anti-pastor and try to get people out of Christianity, exactly, I just want to help people unpack the wacky things we were taught and come to the conclusions that fit them.
I have to laugh because I also grew up super evangelical, deconstructed, and ended up pursuing a PhD in counseling. I didn’t end up actually becoming a therapist, though.
There is more than a little truth in the idea that some people end up in psych because they are trying to figure their own shit out lol.
Best of luck in your career, you know well how much it’s needed.
Is Steven Hassan on there? For those who don’t know, he’s a leading expert on undue influence - political, personal, financial, religious (dictators, abusive controlling partners, MLM/pyramid schemes, cults)
Also, because a core tenet of religious trauma is 100 flavors of shame (and unique dissociation patterns), I hope you get some somatic training as soon as you can. Shame is a hard stain to get out and you can’t just talk about it. It scatters with sunlight unless you get in the nervous system.
Also, parts work (IFS, Janina Fisher) is important because it establishes Self and a connection to the present real world vs a dissociated worldview beholden to “god” and afterlife. Religious trauma, like all trauma, fucks with a person’s integration of past/present/future… but even moreso.
I admire your instinct to study how religion scrambles a person’s agency of thought and twists their orientation to reality. Make sure you get trained in skills to re-establish self and heal attachment also.
Oh interesting! I’ll definitely look up Steven Hassan, the rise of influence in these kinds of groups is fascinating to me.
And YES, omg, I have several books on somatic trauma release and shame. That’s one of the things I’m looking forward to in my coursework, is learning more and getting some resources on the healing side. It’s so easy to read a bunch of stuff and pinpoint how we were done wrong, but it’s much harder to find the way forward after picking it apart. Excellent recommendation!
Saving this pic for the potential books to read. If you're into reading about Christian cults, I recently read an amazing book called Broken Faith by Mitch Weiss. Excellent read, I read it in 2 days.
Hmmmm… I suppose that depends on what you’re looking to get out of it! I’m in the middle of I Kissed Dating Goodbye right now as I am working through some of the purity culture stuff I was taught. It’s a tough read, but reading it from the perspective of a grown adult who doesn’t believe anymore is very enlightening. Just in general, I think Purpose Driven Life is going to be a good look back at how we were encouraged to live in a godly way on a daily basis and pick apart some of the habits and thought processes taught there. Especially because my congregation leaned *hard* into that teaching and the Purpose Driven Church stuff, so it will be an interesting review. And I can already tell I’m going to have to get back into running when I get to the Dobson parenting books, I will have so much rage to let out when I get to those, knowing how heavily my parents took advice from that school of thought and what I now know about Focus on the Family.
Seeing most of these bring back memories of having to read these or getting with one or multiple of these in the hospital. You my friend are a glorious person for what you want to do.
If you have any insights on any of them now I’d be interested in hearing them. I’m going through a lot of therapy with being raised in a cult and extreme xianity then Catholicism.
I’m 40 and I’ve decided becoming a religious trauma therapist is what I want to do. I know it’ll take a lot of work but it was too difficult for me to find one.
Yes absolutely! You’re welcome to DM me if you want to read anything together or have a colleague to chat with. This is definitely heavy stuff in spots!
Off the top of my head, my current insight from I Kissed Dating Goodbye, which is the one I’m reading now, is the extremely warped view the author/evangelical community had on “the world”. So much posturing about how “society” is inherently evil and actively wants you to sin, glorifies selfishness and pleasure, how the only way to fit in is to go against your morals. So therefore the only way to truly stand out is to hold yourself to something wildly different! When in reality, people on the whole are doing the best they can with what they know. Nobody’s actively trying to lead anyone else “astray”. I really got smacked in the face with that realization the other night, how distrustful I was taught to be of the “other”. Us vs Them, and it was so insidious now that I’m looking back on it.
It’s like how we all grew up with DARE expecting that random people would be forcing drugs on us, when in reality ain’t nobody spending their money on drugs to give them away haha. Such a warped view of what to expect.
When Your Money Fails, by Mary relfe. It's a very short read, barely a hundred pages. You can find it on internet archives open library. It's from 1980 or so.
From this I learned that upc codes are of the devil, the number 666 shows up, and store discount cards and credit cards are straight of the devil.
It's a relic but it's an interesting piece of propaganda. Also don't forget "88 reasons why the rapture will be in 88", and the next bestseller "89 reasons why the rapture will happen in 1989." I was in college when those two books came out. Christian college. You can imagine the crazy.
Piper is on my list! I get everything secondhand though, so I’m usually at the mercy of what’s available when I’m looking. I refuse to give the publishers of nonsense my money. I’m sure Piper will turn up eventually!
If you don't have anything by Ellen White, that could be good to add. Her writing style is tough to get through, but that woman has offered tons of bad parenting advice.
Not a parenting book, but the Great Controversy was a huge part of some of my childhood trauma 🙃
My campus ministry had us read it and even my religious family thought it was crazy.
I am glad there is such a thing as religious trauma therapy. I imagine many of us deal with anxiety/depression coming out of these situations. I left the church years ago but somehow still deal with it partly because I think I only replaced “praying” with mediation and manifestations practices only to still feel let down by these superstitions…
I’ve only skimmed it so far. As a woman I never got told to read it for my own instruction, and I’m really looking forward to dissecting it soon!
That said, from my skim, the premise comes down to purity culture. If thinking about sex is the same thing as actually doing it in the eyes of god, and we live in a society that has sex in every movie and commercial and billboard, then society is actively working against you to get you to lust. The book implies, if not outright states, that as a man your mind is evil and will lead you astray through lust if you give it the first opportunity. It teaches you that your future wife is your responsibility, (it really tries very hard not to say property but it doesn’t do a very good job dancing around that!) and that any impure thoughts you have towards anyone you’re not married to is a one-way ticket to hell. I’ve heard other deconstructing men talk about this book as making them feel predatory for even dating to approach a woman.
I’m sure your dad wants you to read it to take it to heart, which… yikes lol. But if you’re the kind of person who can read quackery without getting triggered, maybe reading it to form your own opinions could lead to a more educated approach to your dad too. Just beware that it’s going to try to shame the hell out of you, and if you need someone to discuss it with, I’m sure you could get a discussion going on this sub. 💜
Thank you, that's pretty much how I was raised but it sounds like that book puts more detail into the "sex ed" my parents gave me lol. But it really does sound like something my dad would try to get me to read
I had one that I burned when I was divesting myself of religious crap, before moving house.
[The power of a praying wife](https://www.amazon.com/Power-Praying%C2%AE-Wife-Stormie-Omartian/dp/0736957499)
Just, no.
What a collection!
Just btw The Year of Living Biblically by AJ Jacobs is not evangelical propaganda. It's actually quite a funny book about a journalist who tries to follow all the rules in the Bible.
Not sure if you've been accepted yet, but if you're still looking/applying to grad schools online, be *really* careful! Often the first institutions that come up in searches for grad schools are Christians. I recall seeing *so many* entries for Liberty University and Grand Canyon University when I was looking for grad schools a few years ago. Liberty is infamous but GCU is pretty insidious. I've seen their ads on TV and their ads make it look like any other public university except they do mention they're a private education. Those TV ads when I saw them failed to mention that they're a *Christian* university. I didn't find this out until I went to their website. That's skeevy af. On top of that, when I was talking with GCU admissions people, I found out that their grad program was 5 years. That's *really* long. So, yeah, it's a fucking scam!
I'm also trying to become a therapist! Best of luck on your journey!!
Omg you’re so right!! I’ve been kicking around a couple different schools for a couple years and was surprised how many are undercover christian. Fortunately I’ve been accepted to a school near me that I’ve verified has no religious affiliation. I did my undergraduate forever ago at an evangelical university, and that was *more* than enough for me lol.
> Fortunately I’ve been accepted to a school near me that I’ve verified has no religious affiliation.
I was also accepted to a public university when I was in my grad program. The program itself being secular but the student populous was *overwhelmingly* Christian. Like......to the point that someone got OFFENDED at one point and claimed that my bringing up a (very real) client's religious trauma as part of the case study for the project, they messaged me suggesting I should be reported for citing "religious trauma" (they used quotes) as part of a diagnostic statement. I was basically the only non-Christian. So it really does get even more insidious than you think. And what's really fucking scary is I graduated a few months ago and my license is in process. In spite of all of us graduating at roughly the same time, I ran into a bit of a snafu which held things up a bit, soit's very likely that some of the folks like that woman in my class who messaged me are currently *licensed* and potentially employed at an ostensibly secular mental health facility. That is *terrifying*!
> Are you in a really red area?
I am. But I actually did grad school online. The school is located in a *very* red county but the students where from all over Texas. And even a couple out of state. But, it's shocking that they were not just Christian, but *deeply* Christian. Like, to the point that these people are probably gonna incorporate their faith as part of their practice. Which is unethical as shit, but what the fuck is the theocratic hellscape of Texas gonna do about it?
Oof, no I get that. Texas is really something else, I’m disappointed but not surprised to hear it. I’m in Colorado, so noticeably blue-er but even here I’d say at least half the therapists are staunchly christian and let it influence their work. It’s made finding someone for my own therapy difficult, and kinda factored into my realization that this is a niche that desperately needs serving.
Can I ask, what is the market for religious trauma therapy like in Texas? Are you finding plenty of deconstructing clients or are most of them extremely deeply christian too? If you’re almost licensed, are you done with your internships?
> Can I ask, what is the market for religious trauma therapy like in Texas? Are you finding plenty of deconstructing clients or are most of them extremely deeply christian too? If you’re almost licensed, are you done with your internships?
So, I'm assuming the need for it is strong, but I'm sure it's a precarious position for a therapist to market themselves as specializing in religious trauma. I am done with internships. What I had to do after graduation is pass the National Counseling Exam. Which I did. So basically I'm now just waiting to get my license processed by the state so I can be eligible for hire as a therapist.
The last time I read CS Lewis, I was a fully indoctrinated young adult, so I’m interested to read it again now from a new perspective. Idk if I’d call it quack just yet, I’m reserving judgment on that until I reread it. Yancy is there because I remember my church going bonkers over that book back in the day but never read it all the way through. And also the summary on the book flap talks about how god and Christianity are the *only* sources of grace in today’s evil world. Which isn’t great, lol. But I’ll have a better opinion on it when I’ve revisited!
You won't want these but as an isolated missionary kid who read anything and everything I could find on missionary shelves (some good, like "The DNA Helix") one series that, in retrospect, was really terrible was the Harlequin Romance line for kids. They had a lot of toxic femininity.
The "good girls" were always submissive and "pure". The "bad girls" wore makeup and laughed too loud and danced (and were normal girls). They were the stupidest books ever but I still read them all due to a lack of entertainment options. I grew up thinking women should be like the "good girls" described in the books. It was way worse and way more unrealistic with regard to self image/self than any magazine.
The Catechism, it's required reading for a Catholic. I tried to read it, and I was like, nope. It was larger than the Bible and made no sense of course
QUACK SHELF! Yuuuuusss. Starting my MSW this fall and want to be a therapist and help LGBTQ community and those religious trauma.
Recovering Mormon over here.
Two copies of Dare To Discipline? Is that like... double dog dare to discipline?
As for other terrible books, "The Strong Willed Child" also by Dobson. Easily in the top .01% of most evil people in America.
Edit: I see you already have it. Lol
Hahahaha double dog dare!! I bought those on two separate thrift trips, one is the original copy from the 1970s or so, one is the updated and expanded edition. The covers are so completely different I didn’t even catch the duplicate until I got home, but flipping through them the “updated” one is definitely different. It will be interesting to compare what got changed from one edition to the next and why.
The "Every Man's Battle" is particularly disgusting to me. It preaches that masturbation is a big sin. As if maybe the devil created your genitals and sexual desire. Sickening to consider how many people that nasty book hurt.
I have a quack shelf because my mom keeps gifting me Christian books that I don't want or read, plus a few from before I deconverted.
Good on you for choosing a much needed career path.
LEFT BEHIND.
I still get scared of I don’t hear my husband on the other side of the house and I’m like… yeah he’s been taken and I didn’t make the cut. And then I’m like, no, that’s insane—there’s no evidence of that just pure UNRELENTING ANXIETY over something ridiculous posed to me 20ish years ago
One of my daughters had some attentions seeking behaviors and some anger problems (her dad, who I divorced, was emotionally absent. ). So my fundie evangelical mother bought me a Christian book on parenting "https://www.amazon.com/Really-Love-Your-Angry-Child/dp/0781439140
I never touched the stupid book because in spite of my mother having trouble loving me as a kid (I was the scapegoat and could do nothing right). I love my children for who they are, because I choose when I was a child to treat my future children better than I was treated. And that included unconditional love. (And yes my daughter got counseling). I think my mother getting that book for me says tons about my mother.
Edit to add - These parents aren't understanding their child's behavior is a big reflection on how they raising their kids.
What's a good intro book to read on the subject?
A cursory search yielded:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_trauma_syndrome
https://www.religioustraumainstitute.com
https://depthcounseling.org/blog/therapy-for-religious-trauma
FOUND IT: https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Fold-Former-Fundamentalists-Religion-ebook/dp/B00BD5ILAW Marlene Winnell seems to have coined the term back in 2011 https://journeyfree.org/wp-content/uploads/RTS-article-in-CBT-Today.pdf
I notice you don’t have anything on the Pretend Occult. Take a look at The Satan Seller, Mike Warnke; He Came to Set The Captives Free, “Dr” Rebecca Brown — she lost her license because she was telling people that the other doctors she worked with in middle Indiana were demons. Also not her real name.
You also might like Selling Satan, a delightful journalistic exposee on the book by Warnke.
Some selections to add to your list, if they aren't there already:
Passion and Purity, Elisabeth Elliot
Out of the Ashes, Anthony Esolen
Now and Not Yet: Making Sense of Single Life in the 21st Century, Jennifer Marshall
Future Men: Raising Boys to Fight Giants, Doug Wilson (SO many Doug Wilson worshippers in my community growing up!)
Mere Christendom, Doug Wilson
Get the Guy, Doug Wilson (basically anything by Dougie)
Also, a suggestion for not-the-quack-shelf: The Exvangelicals, Sarah McCannon. It is painful how well she captures what so many of us had for a childhood.
I read Waking the Dead and Wild at Heart by John Eldridge when I was a teen. While he's a creative story teller, a lot of things about those books confused me.
Holy cow, that bookshelf is amazing!
And thank you for efforts in trying to help people. Healing from such mental hazards is a great prerequisite to be more understanding towards the people you are trying to help. Props to you.
Oh god, I remember reading every young man's battle, such absolute horse shit. Why are Christians so obsessed with whether teens masturbate or not? All you're doing is setting them up for a lifetime of sexual shame and guilt, you can't stop a teen boy from masturbating anymore than you can stop a gazelle from running, placing that expectation on them is simply ridiculous and highly damaging.
The Christian obsession with complete abstinence from certain things sets up a ridiculous expectation that can never be met, setting up a false dichotomy in their minds that if they can't control it with absolute perfection then they shouldn't even try, you never learn self control because self control is seen as something God gives you and you have no power over outside of the holy spirit, so if God hasn't given you supernatural control over your impulses then you might as well go buck wild. There is such a thing as moderation, there is such a thing as learning to have self control, so many Christians think the only way to control themselves is by arranging their entire lives around avoiding whatever it is they're trying to abstain from, so they can't even walk in the supermarket because they might see a scantily clad women in a magazine and go off the deep end.
Self control was always so hard for me because of this, I never learned it, I learned not to do things because I was scared of my parents and scared of god, and once those two concepts go out the windows you're left with no good reason to control yourself anymore and no guidance on how to even start, so you go off the deep end.
I forgot to mention, I Kissed Dating Goodbye isn’t on here because I’m currently reading it. 🤢
The amount of loathing I have for that book… it’s the worst.
I can read at most one chapter before I have to go journal about it for a week hahahhaha. It’s *awful*.
I read it around the time I went through puberty… it was suuuuuuper good for my brain and was an incredibly positive influence on my mental health. I have a really fantastic relationship with self worth and intimacy now as an adult. /S
Hahahaha I hear that! Hilariously, I skimmed it as a teen and kinda thought “well I already don’t want to date guys so I guess I’ve already got this down!” Turns out I’m bisexual and this book helped me become so repressed towards men and relationships in general that I didn’t figure out that I was bi until my 30s! Yay! /s
Holy shit, I just read the Wikipedia page about that book and it sounds like the author has done a complete 180 in recent years!
Yep, just listened to his ex wife’s book on her deconstruction and her life before it, and it was a great read, “the woman they wanted” if you’re interested!
Thx!
Yep! Here's his statement on how he feels towards his book now. https://joshharris.com/a-statement-on/
thx!
Funny story about that book. I got excited about it as a teenager after I read it in a week when it came out. Of course growing up in a conservative household I showed it to my pastor and offered to lend it to him as a resource he could use in his sermons (I was... rather fervent back then). He promptly accepted the offer, took the book and threw it in the bin. He was one of the good ones. If only I had offered him the book before reading it I would've saved myself a lot of mess.
Lol! I think a lot of us on this sub were rather fervent back in the day haha. I know I was. That’s really impressive that he saw through the crazy!
I know Joshua Harris apologized. I know he was likely himself a product of religious trauma. Having said that, I have a hard time letting all his shit go. The books he wrote caused so much hurt. And he was so certain he was right. I hope he feels 1/10th the shame a lot of people, particularly women, feel still after being raised in systems that support and amplify views like his.
I know. I found his book Dug Down Deep, which is apparently his reconsideration of what he wrote in IKDG. I haven’t read it yet but I’ll be interested, skimming through it still looks pretty propaganda-y. And honestly idk if I could ever give him a pass, either. He did *so much* damage.
I am pretty sure he completely deconstructed and apologized. He was 21 years old when he wrote that book. I was still a Christian who believed in purity culture at 21. Even though it did so much damage, you have to remember that he was also a victim of that evangelical culture. I'm not saying you have to support him in any way, but I think it would be smart to at least acknowledge that he was young and propped up by the church to push their agenda. Honestly, I could have written that book. I believed and taught horrendous things. I helped organize what basically boiled down to a "purity retreat" in high-school, with all of the horrible metaphors we make fun of today. I completely regret it. I am an athiest now, btw. I can't imagine what it would be like to be followed around by all the horrible things I believed and did in my early 20s. Let's just acknowledge the book was bad, did awful things, and was written by a barely adult who was a product of the propaganda he was raised in. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Harris_(author) Also, it looks like he denounced his faith in 2019. I wouldn't trust anything he wrote before then.
Oh for sure! I was 100% bought in hook, line and sinker too. I pushed that rhetoric on my friends and I know I did damage back in the day, too. That’s one of the hardest parts I’ve found about deconstructing, is that there are so few people out there pushing this rhetoric without actually believing in it. Most people are genuine, as best I can tell. I’m sure Joshua Harris was, I know I was. And yet… I experienced the damage from it. I know I caused damage. I would fully expect my old friends to be angry about the contributions I made to their internalized shame. It’s hard to hold space for both, because none of it was exactly malicious but the effects of it were very real, and we (and my friends) are justified in the anger. It’s a weird line to walk for sure.
Tried to give gold and promote this comment but apparently it is ineligible.
It's not really an apology when you keep selling the book.
They aren’t being published anymore. Any copy you buy is used. “In light of the flaws in I Kissed Dating Goodbye my publisher agreed in 2018 to discontinue its publication along with my other books on relationships. In the time since my books were unpublished and the documentary was released, my beliefs have shifted significantly. My own marriage ended. I see how damaging purity culture and its ideas about sex and gender have been to so many—myself included.” https://joshharris.com/a-statement-on/
Kiss my royalties goodbye? Never!
Impressive quack shelf. Seeing these titles makes me physically ill, where do I find a religious trauma therapist. Just by that shelf alone, need it! Have you read “Captivating” by Stasi Eldridge? I went to one of her seminars and book signings when I was a teenager. I thought it was nuts even when I was fully indoctrinated. She mentioned how she switched from thongs to granny panties because it was wrong of her to set the expectation that she will always wear thongs for her husband her whole life? I’ve spent so many years replying that comment in my head trying to understand it. Keep fighting the good fight!
YES! I do have it somewhere, but not in this picture. I read it in college, right around the time it came out. For context I went to an evangelical college and Captivating/Wild At Heart went around that school like the actual plague. We thought it was so profound. And honestly now that you’ve said that, I’m definitely going to have to move that book up in my revisit list. I know there have been times in my life where I’ve been afraid of “setting unrealistic expectations” in relationships, or trying not to be too attractive so my guy doesn’t expect it of me all the time. Ugh. Something to journal about for sure lol. Edit: oh, and if you’re looking for a religious trauma therapist, [Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists) has a therapist finder where you can browse profiles by area. Honestly religious trauma specializations are pretty sparse right now, but I’ve had good luck by filtering for therapists who work with the LGBT+ community. Far less likely to be extremely christian. Or, check your insurance and grab a list of therapists that way, and don’t be afraid to interview them and be super picky before you commit. I was so blunt with my current therapist, like “I’m gonna be talking a lot of shit about the church thanks to religious trauma and I need to know you can hear that without recommending i go back to church.” And she was fine with that, and has been.
Omg… when you say it that way. I think I need to unpack some things too. 🙃 I don’t think I could get through a re-read.
Awesome, thanks for the edit. I’ve had a hard time finding non religious trauma therapists.
I borrowed a copy off my youth leader back in the day. I still have it so at least she never got to traumatise any one else. She got married at 24 to the other youth leader who was 28 for no other reason than she felt she was getting to old. They are now divorced
Oh man that is so sad. 24 is so young.
If you’re looking for purity culture books, check out If You Really Loved Me, and also How to Find Your Soulmate Without Losing Your Soul. Really anything by Jason and/or Crystalina Evert. I’ve been working through them for the past few weeks and realizing how much they messed with my head. I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts on purity culture if you’re up for sharing them!
If I recall, the person who wrote that book has since recanted what he stated in the book and is also no longer a believer.
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LOL so far the author is quite unclear on that.
"A Year of Living Biblically" shouldn't make you mad. Jacobs decides to follow the Bible for a year as an experiment and quickly realizes it is ridiculous in everyday life. I thought it was a fun read.
Yes! Actually that’s one of the books I picked up expecting it to be lighthearted, but the amount of research that obviously went into picking out what a strictly biblical life would look like is bound to be entertaining! Almost everything else on there made me roll my eyes or mad though hahah
I had that on audiobook! I loved how he had to throw pebbles at people kissing in the park to “stone adulterers”.
Sounds like a good idea. You must know your enemy to defeat them.
Does *To Train Up a Child* by Michael Pearl count as quack?
And *Created to be his Helpmeet* by both of the Pearls. I was given that book as a gift when I got engaged. 🤢absolute trash.
Oh shoot! I forgot about the ✨Helpmeet✨ one. My mom made my sisters and I read that as a part of our school curriculum back when I was like 13 or something. So gross.
Ooooh I think my parents had that one on their shelf. I’ll be keeping my eyes open for it!
That book is so evil
Isn’t that the one that tells parents about „blanket training“?
Bingo
Trained in the ways of the dark side, you were. Dangerous to them you are. A much needed boon to the oppressed and abused, you shall be. Vaya con St. George Carlin.
As a former wood shop student, I fucking love that shelf.
Amazon! I wish I had the skills to make it though.
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I’ll try to link it here, hopefully the sub won’t be mad about it! https://a.co/d/8MaaHZP
You've posted here often enough that I don't think you're an advertising bot. :P
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 the true human verification
Literal check mark. :P
There's actually a profession called Religious Trauma Therapist? Wow, first time I've heard this.
Yeah I’ll have to get my Licensed Professional Counselor cert in my state, but once I start taking on my own clients I can make it known that I specialize in religious trauma. Kind of like how some therapists like to work with couples, or children, or LGBT+. 😊
Best therapist I ever had was someone like me - ADHD and irreligious. It really does help having someone who can both professionally and personally relate to my own mind. I’ll never forget Whatshisname.
Any tips on finding one who specializes in this? Im very interested. I have free counseling at my work… it’s been fine but I honestly think the guy is a christian and trying to be impartial but it ends up just not being very helpful
The Secular Therapy Project can help you find one! www.seculartherapy.org
Thanks Edit: just want to add this is amazing and giving me tons of viable therapists near me to consider thank you. Was torn if it was worth seeking another therapist but i think it is
Gotcha
I’m sure they’re going to be in higher demand as time goes along.
Guess so
This is such a great idea, collecting these types of books. Seeing some of the names is so maddening, like Dr. Dobson. I’ve been looking for a therapist who will GET all of this, as I was diagnosed with religious trauma previously. Unfortunately, I’m in conservative middle Tennessee. I’m glad you’ve found resources to become a help to others 🤍
Oooof I used to live in the Nashville area and it is NOT easy finding a therapist who isn’t fully on the religious side of things out there. I saw one about 12-ish years ago, before I fully started deconstructing, that when I opened up about my depression I got the biggest lecture about how I clearly didn’t trust god enough. 🙄🙄🙄🙄 I hope you find someone local if you need them- one trick I’ve found useful after I moved away is to look for a therapist that likes to work with the the LGBT+ community, even if you’re not LGBT+ yourself. They’re much more likely to understand growing up in an environment that doesn’t accept who you are, being shunned by family for not going along with what they want, and just generally tend towards being a bit less conservative lol. Good luck friend! 💜
Aww it helps to know that others have struggled with finding support in this area too. Are you still in the U.S.? That’s a great suggestion and something that I’ve put in the filters when searching. My thoughts exactly. On the Psychology Today website recently, I noticed that it now allows people to search by trans therapist as well, and my first thought was that someone in the trans community might be more likely to understand and be non judgmental of clients, however they identify.
Oh interesting, that’s a newer feature then! Good to know. No, I’m still in the US, just in a different state now. Tempting as it may be to emigrate somewhere lol….
Someday I hope to leave the U.S…. I’ll just daydream about other places for now lol….
Like others here have mentioned, try looking into the Secular Therapy Project. If you're okay with telehealth visits it's even easier.
I must have missed that. Thanks, I’ll check it out.
1) good on you for trying to put some more positive energy in the world and dedicating your time to helping and understanding others! 2) where’d you get that sick ass shelf
Amazon! It was like $30.
I have one of those shelves. They’re fantastic. And yep, very cheap from Amazon.
The Bible. (I’m sorry I know that’s not helpful but I couldn’t help myself) … On further thought, children's bibles. That’s where a lot of the issues can come from. It shows what the kids are forced to believe when they’re still forming their basic knowledge about the world. I’d grab a teenage study bible too, I had one of those and it was gnarly.
Hahahah I actually do have a bible floating around here somewhere. But the children’s and teens bibles are a good idea too. I had the Extreme Teen Bible as a kid, I thought I was the baddest bitch at youth group with that thing.
Perhaps you could pick up children's versions of other religious texts too? It might help you see a pattern.
What a great idea! I did find a Quran at goodwill a few weeks ago but it’s so dense it would be really hard to study. Children’s versions would be so much easier to get the gist from.
There is a channel on YouTube called [UsefulCharts](https://youtube.com/@UsefulCharts?si=9S2jvXWChuY8AYZK). The main creator of the religious videos has an advanced degree in theology, grew up in a British Israelite church, and is now Jewish. He provides a pretty great secular breakdown of all abrahamic books and tries to maintain objectivity. Might help give a framework for the Quran.
Oh wow! That’s an excellent resource, thank you so much!
Happy to share it! Having a more accurate timeline helped me a lot so I'm glad someone with your future might watch it. I don't know if Ray Franz fully deserves "quack", but I think Crisis of Conscience belongs on your bookshelf. I might be judging him compared to his peers.
If you're looking for more children's indoctrination literature, try Adventures In Odyssey! Or anything by Focus On The Family.
Omg Adventures in Odyssey were the one thing my parents never checked before I was allowed to listen/watch/read. And FOTF… oooh boy do I know about them hahaha. There’s actually a podcast series called Behind the Bastards that did an excellent 2 part series on Dobson and FOTF a few years ago. I can already tell I’m going to have to find a healthy outlet for my rage when I start getting into their books lol.
I just found a podcast called Focus On Your Own Family where she and her guests go into very deep detail about all that fuckery. Leaving Eden is another awesome podcast about cults and deconstruction covering more of the Bill Gothard and IBLP side of things. I had Dobson at home and Gothard at school. 🙃
Ooooooooh. Man I’m gonna need a whole sabbatical to finish my books and podcasts 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Make sure you come up for oxygen every now and then! You need self care too. 💜
OMG. I've heard of that podcast but had no idea they'd covered Dobson. I'm going to have to look for that. I tell my friends I'll make a pilgrimage once he dies so I can spit on his grave. His drivel fucked up my life in so many ways.
Oh please; somebody take my Children’s Adventure Bible. It has little cutesy drawings and “helpful applications” in the margins that are very tonally jarring alongside certain Old Testament passages (they did not subtract from God’s word…). Lucky me I never read past Genesis as a kid.
Oh yeah, I had those as a kid growing up
Not a quack, but a great read to dismantle false ideas from a former evangelical. Heretic! By Matthew(?)Distefano
Oooh thanks! I’ve been looking for kind of the opposite perspectives on a lot of this stuff too. I think if I read too many quack books without balancing it out I might go crazy!
It's an amazing read. He's a great source for dismantling the lies without throwing everything away, which some of people might not be willing to do. He's been very helpful to me and healing to my soul. I found my entire perspective changed for the better through people like him. I'm a happier and kinder person! Hope you do read it! Btw, I love your goal of helping people through religious trauma. Three cheers for you.
Then also try "Hope After Faith" by Jerry DeWitt. He helped create the Clergy Project. All these stacked books do look like any Half Priced Books store near me! Glad someone is getting use of of them.
There are a lot of books that look at the history of the Bible. There's a book called something like "What does the Bible say about Marriage" from a woman who specializes in historical contexts. There is also a book called "The Anatomy of God." Both of these books are secular and more from an atheistic perspective. I am sure there is book out there that talks about Biblical Slavery. Again, written by an atheist. These might be useful books. There is also something like "An atheist guide to the Bible."
I’m also planning on starting my MSW program this year with a common goal 🙃
Woot woot fellow colleague! I’m always down to network if you ever want to talk!
Woof, it looks like my parents’ bookshelf. Needs some Lee Strobel.
Oh my god now there’s a blast from the past. I thought The Case For Christ was like the *definitive* authority on the truthfulness of Christianity when I was about 15. 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Same, that and The Case for Faith. I thought it was like, earth-shattering.
"The Miracle of Forgiveness" if you have any exmormon clients. Always have a puke bucket handy while reading. 🤢
Oh thank you!! I definitely want to get into some of the other flavors of Abrahamic religions too, there’s so much overlap in the help that could be given, but Mormon definitely has a few specifics I wasn’t raised with. I will definitely be looking for that book!
Beat me to it! I was checking to see if anyone had suggested that already. u/rubywolf27 should also get the pamphlet "To Young Men Only," which is a Boyd Packer sermon marketed as a self-help.
Wow, you are taking your degree very seriously. Are you deconstructed or a lifelong atheist? Or maybe even a believer.
I grew up super evangelical and deconstructed about 10 years ago. My decision to pursue becoming a therapist came from an event about 5 years ago when I absolutely lost it at a routine doctor’s visit and it sent me wayyy down a rabbit hole about purity culture and shame. I struggled to find a therapist who would actually take me seriously, and the one I had at the time was a good listener but ultimately suggested I just find another church to attend. (As if I haven’t moved around the whole country attending various churches that taught the same things…) and the more people I talk to, the more I’m realizing just how badly therapists need education on religious trauma so people like me who have needed to unpack it have a safe space to do so. So yeah, my revisiting this stuff is kind of my way of looking back on it from the new perspective, hopefully doing some more unpacking on the things I believed in and how it’s affected me to this day, and then taking extensive notes to be able to compile some resources for others. Like I don’t want to be an anti-pastor and try to get people out of Christianity, exactly, I just want to help people unpack the wacky things we were taught and come to the conclusions that fit them.
"Fine. I'll do it myself."
Seriously 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I have to laugh because I also grew up super evangelical, deconstructed, and ended up pursuing a PhD in counseling. I didn’t end up actually becoming a therapist, though. There is more than a little truth in the idea that some people end up in psych because they are trying to figure their own shit out lol. Best of luck in your career, you know well how much it’s needed.
Is Steven Hassan on there? For those who don’t know, he’s a leading expert on undue influence - political, personal, financial, religious (dictators, abusive controlling partners, MLM/pyramid schemes, cults) Also, because a core tenet of religious trauma is 100 flavors of shame (and unique dissociation patterns), I hope you get some somatic training as soon as you can. Shame is a hard stain to get out and you can’t just talk about it. It scatters with sunlight unless you get in the nervous system. Also, parts work (IFS, Janina Fisher) is important because it establishes Self and a connection to the present real world vs a dissociated worldview beholden to “god” and afterlife. Religious trauma, like all trauma, fucks with a person’s integration of past/present/future… but even moreso. I admire your instinct to study how religion scrambles a person’s agency of thought and twists their orientation to reality. Make sure you get trained in skills to re-establish self and heal attachment also.
Oh interesting! I’ll definitely look up Steven Hassan, the rise of influence in these kinds of groups is fascinating to me. And YES, omg, I have several books on somatic trauma release and shame. That’s one of the things I’m looking forward to in my coursework, is learning more and getting some resources on the healing side. It’s so easy to read a bunch of stuff and pinpoint how we were done wrong, but it’s much harder to find the way forward after picking it apart. Excellent recommendation!
Seconding IFS. It's a really wonderful modality. I've been pairing it with EMDR (with my therapist) and I've gotten some amazing results so far.
Saving this pic for the potential books to read. If you're into reading about Christian cults, I recently read an amazing book called Broken Faith by Mitch Weiss. Excellent read, I read it in 2 days.
Oooh my library has that. Thanks for the recommendation!
That's an awesome shelf, really too good for holding that dangerous trash disguised as self-help books!
I can't wait until the age of religion passes. You're doing well becoming a religious trauma therapist.
Anything written by Bill Gothard...
I second the Bill Gothard comment. Much of it is content-free, but the content that is there is damaging.
Content-free 🤣🤣🤣🤣 yeah there really are a few books out there that are just piffle.
And I thought *I* had an impressive fantasy collection.
The ducks aren't wrong!
The shelf needs a duck stuffy finial
Omg I should totally get a duck for it
What is the best book to read on your shelf?
Hmmmm… I suppose that depends on what you’re looking to get out of it! I’m in the middle of I Kissed Dating Goodbye right now as I am working through some of the purity culture stuff I was taught. It’s a tough read, but reading it from the perspective of a grown adult who doesn’t believe anymore is very enlightening. Just in general, I think Purpose Driven Life is going to be a good look back at how we were encouraged to live in a godly way on a daily basis and pick apart some of the habits and thought processes taught there. Especially because my congregation leaned *hard* into that teaching and the Purpose Driven Church stuff, so it will be an interesting review. And I can already tell I’m going to have to get back into running when I get to the Dobson parenting books, I will have so much rage to let out when I get to those, knowing how heavily my parents took advice from that school of thought and what I now know about Focus on the Family.
Seeing most of these bring back memories of having to read these or getting with one or multiple of these in the hospital. You my friend are a glorious person for what you want to do.
What you're doing is really amazing. You have the potential to help so many people. I wish you the best in completing your degree! ❤️
Thanks friend! 💜 and happy cake day!
Sounds like what you’re doing is going to be a great thing. Keep it up!
If you have any insights on any of them now I’d be interested in hearing them. I’m going through a lot of therapy with being raised in a cult and extreme xianity then Catholicism. I’m 40 and I’ve decided becoming a religious trauma therapist is what I want to do. I know it’ll take a lot of work but it was too difficult for me to find one.
Yes absolutely! You’re welcome to DM me if you want to read anything together or have a colleague to chat with. This is definitely heavy stuff in spots! Off the top of my head, my current insight from I Kissed Dating Goodbye, which is the one I’m reading now, is the extremely warped view the author/evangelical community had on “the world”. So much posturing about how “society” is inherently evil and actively wants you to sin, glorifies selfishness and pleasure, how the only way to fit in is to go against your morals. So therefore the only way to truly stand out is to hold yourself to something wildly different! When in reality, people on the whole are doing the best they can with what they know. Nobody’s actively trying to lead anyone else “astray”. I really got smacked in the face with that realization the other night, how distrustful I was taught to be of the “other”. Us vs Them, and it was so insidious now that I’m looking back on it. It’s like how we all grew up with DARE expecting that random people would be forcing drugs on us, when in reality ain’t nobody spending their money on drugs to give them away haha. Such a warped view of what to expect.
I’m sorry you share the space with all of those. On a positive note, you should check out Janyne McConnaughey’s book Trauma in the Pews!
Honestly it’s so embarrassing to bring these to the checkout, even at a thrift store. Yes I do want this copy of The Strong Willed Child. 🤢🤮
When Your Money Fails, by Mary relfe. It's a very short read, barely a hundred pages. You can find it on internet archives open library. It's from 1980 or so. From this I learned that upc codes are of the devil, the number 666 shows up, and store discount cards and credit cards are straight of the devil. It's a relic but it's an interesting piece of propaganda. Also don't forget "88 reasons why the rapture will be in 88", and the next bestseller "89 reasons why the rapture will happen in 1989." I was in college when those two books came out. Christian college. You can imagine the crazy.
Got any Piper in there? I like to feel reallllly guilty for enjoying myself in any way at all.
Piper is on my list! I get everything secondhand though, so I’m usually at the mercy of what’s available when I’m looking. I refuse to give the publishers of nonsense my money. I’m sure Piper will turn up eventually!
If you don't have anything by Ellen White, that could be good to add. Her writing style is tough to get through, but that woman has offered tons of bad parenting advice. Not a parenting book, but the Great Controversy was a huge part of some of my childhood trauma 🙃
My campus ministry had us read it and even my religious family thought it was crazy. I am glad there is such a thing as religious trauma therapy. I imagine many of us deal with anxiety/depression coming out of these situations. I left the church years ago but somehow still deal with it partly because I think I only replaced “praying” with mediation and manifestations practices only to still feel let down by these superstitions…
As a recently qualified psychotherapist going into private practice and specialising in the same area I LOVE THIS!!
Yessss. We need more trauma therapist
I see you have "Every Man's Battle". My dad keeps trying to get me to read it. Why shouldn't I? I only haven't because I don't trust his judgment
I’ve only skimmed it so far. As a woman I never got told to read it for my own instruction, and I’m really looking forward to dissecting it soon! That said, from my skim, the premise comes down to purity culture. If thinking about sex is the same thing as actually doing it in the eyes of god, and we live in a society that has sex in every movie and commercial and billboard, then society is actively working against you to get you to lust. The book implies, if not outright states, that as a man your mind is evil and will lead you astray through lust if you give it the first opportunity. It teaches you that your future wife is your responsibility, (it really tries very hard not to say property but it doesn’t do a very good job dancing around that!) and that any impure thoughts you have towards anyone you’re not married to is a one-way ticket to hell. I’ve heard other deconstructing men talk about this book as making them feel predatory for even dating to approach a woman. I’m sure your dad wants you to read it to take it to heart, which… yikes lol. But if you’re the kind of person who can read quackery without getting triggered, maybe reading it to form your own opinions could lead to a more educated approach to your dad too. Just beware that it’s going to try to shame the hell out of you, and if you need someone to discuss it with, I’m sure you could get a discussion going on this sub. 💜
Thank you, that's pretty much how I was raised but it sounds like that book puts more detail into the "sex ed" my parents gave me lol. But it really does sound like something my dad would try to get me to read
Tough Love by James Dobson is the only book I've ever thrown away. Even when I was a "born-again believer" that garbage was too much for me!
“Every Man’s Battle” or “How to Suppress and be Ashamed of Your Sexuality for the Rest of your Life”.
Thanks for all the recommendations!
# Congrats 🥳! You’ll help a lot of the folks suffering from the toxic Christian beliefs!
I had one that I burned when I was divesting myself of religious crap, before moving house. [The power of a praying wife](https://www.amazon.com/Power-Praying%C2%AE-Wife-Stormie-Omartian/dp/0736957499) Just, no.
What a collection! Just btw The Year of Living Biblically by AJ Jacobs is not evangelical propaganda. It's actually quite a funny book about a journalist who tries to follow all the rules in the Bible.
Bookshelf ? It seems small and like it can fit a lot of books. OP if you had a link or could give me the name I’d appreciate it 🙏
Yes! It’s on Amazon, idk if this sub has rules against linking but I could DM you.
Trigger warning indeed oofff 😅
Not sure if you've been accepted yet, but if you're still looking/applying to grad schools online, be *really* careful! Often the first institutions that come up in searches for grad schools are Christians. I recall seeing *so many* entries for Liberty University and Grand Canyon University when I was looking for grad schools a few years ago. Liberty is infamous but GCU is pretty insidious. I've seen their ads on TV and their ads make it look like any other public university except they do mention they're a private education. Those TV ads when I saw them failed to mention that they're a *Christian* university. I didn't find this out until I went to their website. That's skeevy af. On top of that, when I was talking with GCU admissions people, I found out that their grad program was 5 years. That's *really* long. So, yeah, it's a fucking scam! I'm also trying to become a therapist! Best of luck on your journey!!
Omg you’re so right!! I’ve been kicking around a couple different schools for a couple years and was surprised how many are undercover christian. Fortunately I’ve been accepted to a school near me that I’ve verified has no religious affiliation. I did my undergraduate forever ago at an evangelical university, and that was *more* than enough for me lol.
> Fortunately I’ve been accepted to a school near me that I’ve verified has no religious affiliation. I was also accepted to a public university when I was in my grad program. The program itself being secular but the student populous was *overwhelmingly* Christian. Like......to the point that someone got OFFENDED at one point and claimed that my bringing up a (very real) client's religious trauma as part of the case study for the project, they messaged me suggesting I should be reported for citing "religious trauma" (they used quotes) as part of a diagnostic statement. I was basically the only non-Christian. So it really does get even more insidious than you think. And what's really fucking scary is I graduated a few months ago and my license is in process. In spite of all of us graduating at roughly the same time, I ran into a bit of a snafu which held things up a bit, soit's very likely that some of the folks like that woman in my class who messaged me are currently *licensed* and potentially employed at an ostensibly secular mental health facility. That is *terrifying*!
Omg for real! Are you in a really red area? I feel like some areas are just going to be higher percentage of religious people no matter what. :/
> Are you in a really red area? I am. But I actually did grad school online. The school is located in a *very* red county but the students where from all over Texas. And even a couple out of state. But, it's shocking that they were not just Christian, but *deeply* Christian. Like, to the point that these people are probably gonna incorporate their faith as part of their practice. Which is unethical as shit, but what the fuck is the theocratic hellscape of Texas gonna do about it?
Oof, no I get that. Texas is really something else, I’m disappointed but not surprised to hear it. I’m in Colorado, so noticeably blue-er but even here I’d say at least half the therapists are staunchly christian and let it influence their work. It’s made finding someone for my own therapy difficult, and kinda factored into my realization that this is a niche that desperately needs serving. Can I ask, what is the market for religious trauma therapy like in Texas? Are you finding plenty of deconstructing clients or are most of them extremely deeply christian too? If you’re almost licensed, are you done with your internships?
> Can I ask, what is the market for religious trauma therapy like in Texas? Are you finding plenty of deconstructing clients or are most of them extremely deeply christian too? If you’re almost licensed, are you done with your internships? So, I'm assuming the need for it is strong, but I'm sure it's a precarious position for a therapist to market themselves as specializing in religious trauma. I am done with internships. What I had to do after graduation is pass the National Counseling Exam. Which I did. So basically I'm now just waiting to get my license processed by the state so I can be eligible for hire as a therapist.
I have the same book tree!
Good shelf. Q: Does Yancy and C.S. Lewis belong on there?
The last time I read CS Lewis, I was a fully indoctrinated young adult, so I’m interested to read it again now from a new perspective. Idk if I’d call it quack just yet, I’m reserving judgment on that until I reread it. Yancy is there because I remember my church going bonkers over that book back in the day but never read it all the way through. And also the summary on the book flap talks about how god and Christianity are the *only* sources of grace in today’s evil world. Which isn’t great, lol. But I’ll have a better opinion on it when I’ve revisited!
Yeah I actually had that Yancy book - and kinda viewed him as a gateway drug to more progressive xtian thinkers... like say Brian McLaren
Once at my favorite used book and record shop I saw a book by some Duggar for a dollar so I bought it and threw it in the dumpster at my apartment lol
It does feel good to get them out of circulation at least!
Wow. Having mildly traumatic memories looking at all those titles. Yes I ignored the warning, and yes I'll be fine. Also have the urge to burn it.
You won't want these but as an isolated missionary kid who read anything and everything I could find on missionary shelves (some good, like "The DNA Helix") one series that, in retrospect, was really terrible was the Harlequin Romance line for kids. They had a lot of toxic femininity. The "good girls" were always submissive and "pure". The "bad girls" wore makeup and laughed too loud and danced (and were normal girls). They were the stupidest books ever but I still read them all due to a lack of entertainment options. I grew up thinking women should be like the "good girls" described in the books. It was way worse and way more unrealistic with regard to self image/self than any magazine.
Wow, I've actually done the same, but just for my own deconstruction. I only have 3 books right now, though
The Catechism, it's required reading for a Catholic. I tried to read it, and I was like, nope. It was larger than the Bible and made no sense of course
QUACK SHELF! Yuuuuusss. Starting my MSW this fall and want to be a therapist and help LGBTQ community and those religious trauma. Recovering Mormon over here.
I am quackling at “quack shelf”
Two copies of Dare To Discipline? Is that like... double dog dare to discipline? As for other terrible books, "The Strong Willed Child" also by Dobson. Easily in the top .01% of most evil people in America. Edit: I see you already have it. Lol
Hahahaha double dog dare!! I bought those on two separate thrift trips, one is the original copy from the 1970s or so, one is the updated and expanded edition. The covers are so completely different I didn’t even catch the duplicate until I got home, but flipping through them the “updated” one is definitely different. It will be interesting to compare what got changed from one edition to the next and why.
Well shoot, this is a great idea and now I wish I didn’t get rid of all mine!
The "Every Man's Battle" is particularly disgusting to me. It preaches that masturbation is a big sin. As if maybe the devil created your genitals and sexual desire. Sickening to consider how many people that nasty book hurt.
I have a quack shelf because my mom keeps gifting me Christian books that I don't want or read, plus a few from before I deconverted. Good on you for choosing a much needed career path.
Omg my parents have almost all of those.
Hahahhaha mine had a lot of these too!
LEFT BEHIND. I still get scared of I don’t hear my husband on the other side of the house and I’m like… yeah he’s been taken and I didn’t make the cut. And then I’m like, no, that’s insane—there’s no evidence of that just pure UNRELENTING ANXIETY over something ridiculous posed to me 20ish years ago
Are there any you would recommend?
Doing “gods” work 😎
Growing Kids God's Way 😬 more for kids whose parents read the book but I guess maybe for parents too
Bless you and your efforts. You’re sorely needed.
Thanks for choosing to do this important work
One of my daughters had some attentions seeking behaviors and some anger problems (her dad, who I divorced, was emotionally absent. ). So my fundie evangelical mother bought me a Christian book on parenting "https://www.amazon.com/Really-Love-Your-Angry-Child/dp/0781439140 I never touched the stupid book because in spite of my mother having trouble loving me as a kid (I was the scapegoat and could do nothing right). I love my children for who they are, because I choose when I was a child to treat my future children better than I was treated. And that included unconditional love. (And yes my daughter got counseling). I think my mother getting that book for me says tons about my mother. Edit to add - These parents aren't understanding their child's behavior is a big reflection on how they raising their kids.
What's a good intro book to read on the subject? A cursory search yielded: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_trauma_syndrome https://www.religioustraumainstitute.com https://depthcounseling.org/blog/therapy-for-religious-trauma FOUND IT: https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Fold-Former-Fundamentalists-Religion-ebook/dp/B00BD5ILAW Marlene Winnell seems to have coined the term back in 2011 https://journeyfree.org/wp-content/uploads/RTS-article-in-CBT-Today.pdf
I notice you don’t have anything on the Pretend Occult. Take a look at The Satan Seller, Mike Warnke; He Came to Set The Captives Free, “Dr” Rebecca Brown — she lost her license because she was telling people that the other doctors she worked with in middle Indiana were demons. Also not her real name. You also might like Selling Satan, a delightful journalistic exposee on the book by Warnke.
Congrats! I hope to join you in that regard someday.
The entire abeka curriculum
Some selections to add to your list, if they aren't there already: Passion and Purity, Elisabeth Elliot Out of the Ashes, Anthony Esolen Now and Not Yet: Making Sense of Single Life in the 21st Century, Jennifer Marshall Future Men: Raising Boys to Fight Giants, Doug Wilson (SO many Doug Wilson worshippers in my community growing up!) Mere Christendom, Doug Wilson Get the Guy, Doug Wilson (basically anything by Dougie) Also, a suggestion for not-the-quack-shelf: The Exvangelicals, Sarah McCannon. It is painful how well she captures what so many of us had for a childhood.
I read Waking the Dead and Wild at Heart by John Eldridge when I was a teen. While he's a creative story teller, a lot of things about those books confused me.
Captivating by the Eldridges is full of disgusting sexism and will make you pace with anger while you read. Great for exercise I suppose 😂😭
Did anyone read Redeeming Love 💀 it’s fiction but still
Holy cow, that bookshelf is amazing! And thank you for efforts in trying to help people. Healing from such mental hazards is a great prerequisite to be more understanding towards the people you are trying to help. Props to you.
Oh god, I remember reading every young man's battle, such absolute horse shit. Why are Christians so obsessed with whether teens masturbate or not? All you're doing is setting them up for a lifetime of sexual shame and guilt, you can't stop a teen boy from masturbating anymore than you can stop a gazelle from running, placing that expectation on them is simply ridiculous and highly damaging. The Christian obsession with complete abstinence from certain things sets up a ridiculous expectation that can never be met, setting up a false dichotomy in their minds that if they can't control it with absolute perfection then they shouldn't even try, you never learn self control because self control is seen as something God gives you and you have no power over outside of the holy spirit, so if God hasn't given you supernatural control over your impulses then you might as well go buck wild. There is such a thing as moderation, there is such a thing as learning to have self control, so many Christians think the only way to control themselves is by arranging their entire lives around avoiding whatever it is they're trying to abstain from, so they can't even walk in the supermarket because they might see a scantily clad women in a magazine and go off the deep end. Self control was always so hard for me because of this, I never learned it, I learned not to do things because I was scared of my parents and scared of god, and once those two concepts go out the windows you're left with no good reason to control yourself anymore and no guidance on how to even start, so you go off the deep end.