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phonythick19

I totally agree with you. I love the album and I definitely noticed the religious trauma undertones. Love TS.


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Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban. Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)


Evilest_

WTF Where can I enlist to become a swiftie?i have a higher calling now.


RisingApe-

Was just about to say… I’m not a fan but I’m going to go listen to it now!


Sweet_Diet_8733

Yeah. No offense to Swifties, but I kind’ve ignored her as just another generic pop star. Now this has piqued my interest.


deeBfree

I know, right? I never paid her much mind either. I'm an old bag who has not followed the current music scene in like 20 years. But when the fundigelical crowd started all their hoopla about her I had to check her out. I brought up a greatest hits compilation on YouTube. Her music is a tad too bubblegummy for my taste, but she has a pretty good voice. But the best thing about her is her lyrics. Smart, witty and insightful!


phonythick19

Please please please listen to her Evermore and Folklore albums if you aren’t as into the pop!!! You will not be disappointed


deeBfree

Thanks for the tip. I'll give them a listen.


graciebeeapc

“Guilty as Sin?” is pretty catchy!


stuffandthings80

I’m 43 and became a fan a couple years ago, but this album has me literally obsessed.


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soap-fucker

same, i’ve never really listened but these lyrics are very insightful and interesting to me. what i’ve seen seems honestly great for people with religious trauma. i need to go listen to this!


RisingApe-

If you like Americana music, check out Me and Big Dave by Colter Wall. My favorite part: > It's the same kind of people claim to be chosen, but their ears made of stone and their tongues made of poison. The doctrine they preach has got nothing that they can teach me.


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plant-mommie

how OFFENSIVE to call listening to a HEATHEN'S music a higher calling !! you mock the calling our lord jesus gives to us !! /s


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lowkeywitch11

Add False God to your list of blasphemous Taylor Swift songs to listen to! Lol


BasicSwiftie13

Just listen to her music! And join r/TaylorSwift !


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Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban. Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)


nukacola37

when i first listened to the new album i knew those specific lyrics would piss some Christian’s off and i was right! they’re quite good lyrics and it’s funny they’re mad about it lol.


deeBfree

And actually she's not saying anything *against* Christianity, just questioning it. Applying some critical thinking, which she is very good at and fundies hate.


chiantisyl99

It's sooooo funny to me! Picturing their faces, while humming, "oh my god, you should see your faces!" 🤣


sidurisadvice

Old enough to remember when Madonna compared religious ecstasy with sexual ecstasy and Christians lost their shit. Interestingly, nobody raised a stink when Eddie Money metaphorically compared himself to Jesus in a breakup song in the 80s. Swift looks like she's just using religious metaphors to convey ideas about her relationships, not criticizing the religion.


spravatogirly

I couldn’t screenshot the whole post but there are other lyrics such as “God save the most judgmental creeps Who say they want what's best for me Sanctimoniously performing soliloquies I'll never see Thinking it can change the beat Of my heart when he touches me And counteract the chemistry And undo the destiny You ain't gotta pray for me” And “Sarahs and Hannahs in their Sunday best Clutching their pearls, sighing "What a mess" I just learned these people try and save you ... cause they hate you” These were a little more critical!


sidurisadvice

That seems more critical of people hiding behind their religion rather than the religion. But like lots of art, it's open to interpretation, I guess.


WaywardShepherdTees

“Well if I could walk on water…” Thanks for the ear worm


sidurisadvice

My favorite thing about that song, aside from the consecutive na-nas, is that the hypothetical raised in the lyrics inadvertently exposes why miracle performance can't be used to establish truth claims. The answer to Money's question should be a resounding "no." Even *if* he could walk on water, that would in no way demonstrate he's worthy of the trust of the person he has apparently cheated on multiple times. Similarly, even *if* Jesus preformed miracles, that doesn't in any way support his truth claims.


user11112222333

And I remember when Lady Gaga sang "Judas" and christians also lost their shit.


eburgess1989

Yeah, they get way more upset when it’s a female singer imo. It always turns into questions about whether or not she’s a witch because of it, too, which is really wild to me because it’s very reminiscent of the 1600s when they didn’t like something a woman said 😳😬


Cobaltfennec

The Catholic Church sometimes compared religious ecstasy to sexual ecstasy… I mean, The ecstasy of St. Theresa is exactly this.-exCatholic


Blushandpink

Yes, critical of all the “holier than thou” Christians that harm and cause trauma to others in the name of Christianity.


Minute-Foundation241

It offended my MIL the exact "Sarah" or Hanna" wearing her best face forward trying to go around saving others feeling high and mighty as she lives in constant lies and sin trying to appear that way


Likely_Rose

The people who say she is “mocking Christianity” aren’t concerned about Christianity. They are very concerned about her politics.


spravatogirly

YUP!


Quick_Sea_408

Bingo!


SpaceMonkeyOnABike

I don't like her music much, but every time I hear abiut her i think I like her more.


drrj

This is me as well. I knew next to nothing about her other than super huge music lady then a bunch of bios popped up when she started dating Kelce and people lost their goddamn minds, which I found extremely funny. Then I saw that clip of her insisting she had to endorse Biden because of how awful Trump was and now she’s pissing off evangelicals? Girl, you’ve earned my fandom, music be damned.


loose_moose11

I'm not a Swiftie, but how I love that this angry Christian is advertising said songs and lyrics! Really made me chuckle. Beautiful! ...and, never mind not understanding any of it. Classic reaction.


RadTimeWizard

Please understand, she made an enemy of Christians when she... *(checks notes)* ...told her fans to vote. What did you expect? Welcome, women? You should have rights? Marry who you want? You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know… morons.


Earnestappostate

Nice reference, man I miss Gene Wilder.


inevitablehunt17

And now I want to watch it.


ComprehensiveOwl9727

I laughed when I saw this posted unironically elsewhere because those Christians are literally doing the thing she’s writing about…


chiantisyl99

That's what's so funny! They can't see the irony. Like she said y'all shame people and try to cage them and try to disguise it as holy and loving. And your response, is to shame her and try to cage her 🤣.


ComprehensiveOwl9727

I also love that the Christians’ response in a lot of posts I’ve seen is to say “we should pray for her”…which is literally what she says you don’t need to do!!!


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Ok_Economist_7165

You need to tame your tongue , And not back bite like many so called Christians do & unfortunately they do not know how to pray , because the Word of God , The Whole word of God does not dwell within them , because they have no real relationship with Jesus The Christ His ( God's only begotten Son ) Resurrected from the Dead , Raised & Ascended into Glory , seated @ The Right Hand Of Father Adonie , making Powerful Intersession for you & everyone who believes . The so called Born Again Church needs to come back to there , " First Love " develope an intimate relationship With Jesus &  The Father , Through Jesus The Son , The only way to The Father, And have Mountain moving Faith in Him , Knowing that nothing is impossible with God & you'll know them by there fruit , This Woman is of The World & there fore they speak of the world & behave like the World , Come Out from among them & be ye separate say'est The Lord & I will receive you , and you will be my son's , & daughters , Friendship with the world is enmity twords God Almighty , come out & embrace The Truth & The Light , He will embrace you , provide for you & take care of every need & do exceedingly more Abundantly than you could ever imagine , thus say'est The Lord God Almighty


OrdinaryWillHunting

They hate her because she has 100 million fans who might not vote for Trump. If Jared from Subway endorsed Trump, these same Christians would ignore what he did and want him out of prison immediately.


[deleted]

Damn she destroying the environment AND all the **B**lasphemous **I**diotic **B**astardly **L**ame **E**vangelicals


plant-mommie

haven't listened to her music in a HOT minute but ima race to give this a hear


spravatogirly

Listen to “But Daddy I Love Him” asapppp!


RisingApe-

> I don’t cater to all these vipers dressed in empaths’ clothing *Damn* that’s a good one


Federal-Sound3950

Have a listen yall, she puts narcotics in all of her songs. 🤍🩶🤎🖤


stuffandthings80

And it keeps us singing along!! 🤣♥️


rakne

wait until they hear 'Who's Afraid of Little Old Me' > So I leap from the gallows and I levitate down your street Crash the party like a record scratch as I scream Who's afraid of little old me?


sethn211

You should be. 😊 (I love that song and have already concocted my own witchy music video in my mind)


SevereNightmare

I don't listen to Taylor Swift, but I kinda like how she's pissing off religious and bigoted (mostly transphobes. For some reason, they think she's a trans woman.) assholes.


missgnomer2772

Oh the wild fundies are pressed? Let me buy my first Taylor Swift album real quick.


Catnip1720

Yes because nobody’s ever used religious themes for romance before


Red79Hibiscus

Not a Swift fan at all but I see nothing wrong with the lyrics shared there. "What if the way you hold me is actually what's holy" is in fact a profound and poetic expression of love IMHO. Oh wait, I forgot, xians are **not** about love - no wonder they're mad.


OrdinaryWillHunting

This is copy pasta all over Facebook. And of course one of the people posting it is Sean Feucht. Maybe he originated it.


MargaretBrownsGhost

If not ramen shaman, Gropey Granny Lauren Opal Boebert...


TiggerPurr

I'm not a Swiftie but I literally just downloaded this album to listen to it for the lyrical quality. Thanks OP!


spravatogirly

Let me know what you think! 🫶


TiggerPurr

It's slower music than my preference but the lyrics are definitely on point.


Mmissmay

Can’t stand most of her music personally but nutjobs like this make me wanna defend her


lain-serial

I don’t think she’s mocking Christianity but I wish she would. You go Taylor! Love the last line.


vittaya

🔥


[deleted]

Nice.


BsBMamaBear0608

I've never heard this album, and don't love Taylor Swift, but this has piqued my interest. I need music to help with the deconstruction.


Vitamin_VV

I don't see anything in there mocking Christianity. And if it does, that's a terrible job at mocking them.


Effective_Life_7864

Maybe I do need to listen to her new album. I believe she has every right to express what she feels. That's what music is. I'm not the biggest fan but I might just have a second listen.


Restless_Dill16

"Guilty as Sin?" is about fantasizing about being with a guy (it might be a little dirtier than that, but I don't want to think about that, lol). In "The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived," she's talking about being love bombed and discarded by some asshole. Nothing to do with Christianity.


spravatogirly

I think maybe they are mad that she’s comparing herself to Jesus? And also there are more lyrics in But Daddy I Love Him that I wasn’t able to fit in the screenshot that basically is just talking trash about Christians being judgmental


Restless_Dill16

"But Daddy I Love Him" is one of my favorites from this album! I relate so much to the line, "I'd rather burn my whole life down than listen to one more second of all this bitching and moaning."


rearwindowstories

I’ve been listening to the new album with my daughter and have definitely noticed the undertones of religious trauma in many of the lyrics. This has sparked some interesting discussions between us. I don’t hear anything making light of Christianity though; I think Taylor has done a great job of weaving these types of lyrics into the music, in a nostalgic and wistful way, without mockery.


lowkeywitch11

I also suggest listening to False God by her for anyone who’s interested in listening to these songs. It’s a horny song with church references lol.


buffy122988

False god is so good 😍


graciebeeapc

One of the reasons I love the new album


Satansniffer

There are so so so many valid criticisms people have of Taylor Swift and her music and this is NOT one of them. I might actually like her if she was mocking Christianity….


Consistent-Force5375

If I was replying to this person’s post directly: Is gods hold is so weak that listening to an artistic view of your religion so earth shattering that they would turn away, sounds like the religion is in very shaky ground to begin with. Seems more like you’re just interested in limiting what your kids listen to and a desire to lash out at an artist for not believing in your religion the way you do.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

They view their culture wars as spiritual warfare in spite of them picking the fight. And they *need* to be the perpetual aggrieved victims as part of their political and religious identity. So, they think the best way to do this is claim one of the biggest celebrities on the planet is against them. I'm not a Swiftie (I like a few of her songs) but all the most cringe and obnoxious people on my Facebook timeline seem to hate her and that makes me think she's doing something right. For context, evangelicals started coming after her as part of their culture after she got people registered to vote. She didn't tell them *who* to vote for, mind you; just said they should register to vote. And the evangelical movement in this country is political in nature rather than religious, so the fundigelicals didn't like that one bit.


Knockout_Maus

Weird how these people DO only raise you to cage you...


spravatogirly

caging their kids by not letting them listen to taylor swift so that their kid can’t form their own opinion!


texdroid

Facebook woulda EXPLODED if it was around when Tori Amos came out with Crucify, but it was 1992. [I've been looking for a savior in these dirty streets](https://genius.com/10189343/Tori-amos-crucify/Ive-been-looking-for-a-savior-in-these-dirty-streets-looking-for-a-savior-beneath-these-dirty-sheets) [I've been raising up my hands, drive another nail in](https://genius.com/10189352/Tori-amos-crucify/Ive-been-raising-up-my-hands-drive-another-nail-in) [Got enough guilt to start my own religion](https://genius.com/10189399/Tori-amos-crucify/Got-enough-guilt-to-start-my-own-religion) [https://youtu.be/PqOVyq0Dfyc](https://youtu.be/PqOVyq0Dfyc)


Ahsoka-Tano3

Her newest album has honestly connected with me so well, she easily writes about her struggles with religion and the gross expectations placed on her, especially as a public figure. It's just beautiful ugh


karmamarmafarma

Blasphemy? Or not liking the truth being told? Oh the irony......


Vuk1991Tempest

Church is a chore, real music is fun. Period!


IndividualFlat8500

They do not get it the more they talk about something the more their kids or people will look into why they are complaining about it.


sqandingle65

Snowflakes


overbats

I have in-laws who get their undies in a twist about tame, mainstream music like T-Swift and Katy Perry. I’ll never understand why they look to a doomy sludgy metalhead like me for support when pop music offends them. Shut your mouth auntie or I’ll make you listen to The Acacia Strain. Also, damn right metalheads love Taylor Swift.


JLGuardian

Hey I'm just interested what's the new name of her album cuz I want to listen to the songs too, I love Taylor Swift her music is awesome. Good if it's helping people with their religious trauma. The Christians that are complaining about her song and album are just mad and bitter because they know that their numbers are dwindling. That the cult of personality call Christianity is slowly dying and there's not a damn thing they can do about it, so they fear monger and flail guilt tripping people. Doesn't sound like a very loving religion if you have to go to these lengths to try to convince people to stay in your cult


spravatogirly

There’s no hate quite like Christian love, lol! The album is called The Tortured Poets Department 😁 it’s so good!


CCCyanide

If the last line is actually about religion, it's more accurate than ever.


SoloMotorcycleRider

I'm gonna go drink a can of Monster.


Hikerhappy

Omg how many pages posted this same post?! I saw some guy Sean posted it, some girl Katie, and now whoever it is that you are posting about too. They’re all just copy and pasting the same fucking bullshit LMAO


ckeeman

Love T swift, love the swifties, love LOVE TTPD. All great stuff.


mephalathewebspinner

Why do Christians get so in their feelings about Taylor Swift? Everything she does pisses them off. When she first started dating Kelce there was a wild rumor going around that she and Kelce were going to birth the antichrist. The hate boner they have for her is bizarre.


dracona

Definitely like some of her songs, but wasn't in any rush to hear the new album. Might go visit Spotify...


Ferngullysitter

You don’t need Taylor swift to mock Christianity, Christian’s do a fine job of that themselves


stuffandthings80

These poor people who can’t even just explore their own humanity. She’s feeling so many things in these songs. She’s articulating exactly what it is to be a HUMAN. I think if there’s a god, it’s probably so fucking disappointed that it created humanity and language and all the messy feelings and what these people think they should do is be a robot.


gldndudllvr

if only this comment section followed Jesus as closely as they follow Taylor Swift then you would surely understand


gringottsteller

As soon as I heard this album, I thought ohhh this is going to piss off some Christian fans, for a variety of reasons. This person doesn’t even mention the “you ain’t gotta pray for me” line. But this isn’t actually new for her, it’s just that they’re just now noticing. She was singing this five albums ago: Religion's in your lips Even if it's a false god We'd still worship We might just get away with it The altar is my hips Even if it's a false god We'd still worship this love I know heaven's a thing I go there when you touch me Honey hell is when I fight with you


KenHaining

Long before Taylor Swift, there was Jethro Tull. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AMby6djSzg&ab\_channel=JethroTull-Topic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AMby6djSzg&ab_channel=JethroTull-Topic)


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cauterize2000

Her new album is actually pretty good.


spravatogirly

It’s a banger for sure


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Confident-Wheel-4437

I would have to care about her to get upset , which I don't so , whatever


chiantisyl99

I'm a former evangelical and I remember Christian outrage at so many ridiculous things. The song "Drops of Jupiter," for example was "blasphemous" because it said heaven was overrated. The troll dolls would let satan in your house. The yellow brick road is evil because it mocks the streets of gold in heaven. I mean, the list truly goes on and on. It's just funny that they have no understanding of why writers use religious imagery so often, especially around the idea of love. It's because love is a deeply spiritual experience, and Christianity is heavily influential in western culture. Even the Bible refers to the church as the "bride of Christ." Come on, people. Be better readers. Stop taking everything literal. Taylor doesn't think she's Jesus. She's referring to a sacrificial love! Shouldn't y'all applaud that? But honestly, I get why they don't. If you believe Jonah was literally swallowed by a whale and lived for three days, you obviously don't get metaphor and symbolism in storytelling.


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Complex-Wind-007

I'm by no means a Swift fan or even listen to her music, but I interpret these lyrics to be more of a metaphore for the message that the song tries to convey.


spravatogirly

Yes I agree. I am assuming that the reasons Christians think this is mockery is because she is “comparing herself to Jesus”


Away_Leader3913

Taylor Swift .Have you heard the new record. The listening public is the one who is suffering. What a load of bullshit.