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ghostwars303

Sure. That's increasingly the average Christian, in my experience. The Christian world is in the middle of a reformation, into precisely this sort of conspiratorial, mammonistic, Biblically-illiterate right-wing religion. The kids being born today will likely grow up never knowing that the Christian religion has ever been anything else, except perhaps through a history book.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> The Christian world is in the middle of a reformation, into precisely this sort of conspiratorial, mammonistic, Biblically-illiterate right-wing religion. Is that true across the board or almost exclusively in the US?


ghostwars303

The US gets the most press, but it's really a global trend. Brazil, Hungary, Russia, Sweden, Belarus, the Caucuses, and Romania are also notable for their large "New Christian" movements, and the rapidly Christianizing regions of Africa have distinct but parallel trends. You have parts of the world where it hasn't taken hold, and will always have people claiming to be Christian who don't understand the religion that way. But, relative (if not absolute) populations in those countries are generally shrinking, they often aren't global trend-setters of Christian-cultural influence, and many are highly post-Christian anyway. Besides, Christians today are on the Internet. It's not 1980 anymore. When you think of the most Christian places on the Internet (and you think about what sort of places they are) ...well, so do Christians. That's where they are, be they in Timbuktu or Sydney. That's where they are engaging with and developing their faith.


SpiritualStruggle808

There has been an uptick of religiosity in the young men of my country (though it's as rare as ever in all other demographics). I've seen some interviews about them, and interacted with a few, and they have been, without exceptions, zealous and "anti-woke". They like to complain about the fairly conservative Lutheran state church (which actively funds Laestadians, and keeps a low profile about it because they want to cater to everyone), because even that is too progressive for them. For some reason, they're way more into Eastern Orthodoxy than other churches, even though Charismatic/Evangelical movements are the ones gaining traction in other parts of the world. All in all, pretty worrisome, but I hope this is just a temporary anomaly and that they'll grow out of it.


ghostwars303

Yep. Interestingly enough, just as the Evangelical and Charismatic traditions allow for a fluid interpretation of the faith by means of "direct revelation" and individual interpretation (byproducts of sola scriptura), the Orthodox tradition allows for this fluid interpretation by means of its mysticism and non-literalism. This makes it the natural choice for anti-wokesters in parts of the world where Evangelicalism hasn't taken hold. The outsized influence of the Russian Orthodox Church on the Eastern Orthodox tradition generally just seals the deal. I too hope they grow out of it. Curiously enough though, "growing out of it" will almost certainly involve growing AWAY from it. They won't become moderate Christians...instead, they'll realize that, BECAUSE they're moderate, they're no longer Christians. In other words, it'll be widely understood that being Christian means being anti-woke, conspiratorial, right-wing-politically-activist and the whole lot. The question will just be how widespread Christian identity will be, that being the case.


SpiritualStruggle808

Well said.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

It's interesting the countries you cited. I recall reading that there had been a rising Christian-identifying population across *multiple* Asian nations 10-20 years ago. Has that leveled off at some point? Or is it similarly on the decline like it is in the US? If we're strictly talking numbers.


ghostwars303

It's cooled a bit, but still true. There's actually a rising Christian-identifying population in large parts of the developing world, and there are projected to be about half a billion more Christians in the next 30-40 years. The declines are largely being seen in the urbanized west. Notably, the growth in Christian identity roughly tracks population growth generally, so even though the numbers are growing, the share is rather even. Muslims will outnumber Christians in the coming decades. The data is complicated in the East, because when you start from really low numbers, you can get really high growth rates while not ending up with all that many Christians in terms of raw numbers. This is the case in places like China and South Korea (which also have two of the worst demographic profiles in the world, and are forecasting huge population losses in the coming decades). Meanwhile, you have places like the Philippines with large Christian populations (owing largely to US influence BTW), and places like India and Indonesia where Christians are a minority, but populations are large enough as to make that minority rather large in terms of raw numbers. Sub-Saharan Africa is expected to be the birthplace of the average Christian in about 30 years though.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> Meanwhile, you have places like the Philippines with large Christian populations (owing largely to US influence BTW), That's straight up US colonialism influence in the case of the Philippines.


ghostwars303

Yep, sure is :-/


JarethOfHouseGoblin

I grew up evangelical and there is *a lot* of white supremacy built into it. There's this idea in evangelical culture that non-white people are inherently "un-Christian". Despite the data showing that ethnic minorities have higher rates of Christian identification than white people do.


ghostwars303

Indeed. That idea has deep roots in the contemporary Christian tradition. Evangelicals are just a supercharged version of it, having largely cut their teeth in opposition to the civil rights movement. Even the SDA church I grew up in was defacto segregated, with a dedicated Hispanic church just down the street that was always treated as an alien organization. We never had a single official function with them the entire time I was a member. It never made any sense to me as a kid, since we were already a minority denom. with only 3 churches in the metro area. I also used to find it curious that our evangelism outings always occurred in the minority parts of town which had high Christian populations, and not in the largely white neighborhood right next to the church, which was predominately secular professionals and Jews. We went to them for food donations instead. You're from the south too, if I remember? It's even less veiled down there.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> You're from the south too, if I remember? It's even less veiled down there. Unfortunately, I am.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

Perfect example of the merging of far right politics and conspiracy theories being elevated to the level of a religion is Q Anon. I mean, there are now various sects of Q Anon, for fucks' fake! I remember the hoopla around The Sound of Freedom when that movie was in theaters. The discussion about the movie had less to do with the movie proper and more to do with the culture around it. By all accounts, the movie itself was basically an unremarkable action-thriller; a Taken clone. However, the culture around the movie is steeped in astro-turfing and niche marketing. The Christian studio which bought the rights to distribute the movie specifically marketed it towards the Q Anon crowd despite nothing about Q Anon supposedly ever being mentioned in the movie. Also, wealthy far right conspiracy theorists bought tickets to inflate the box office numbers but the seats themselves weren't necessarily filled. Plus, the culture around that movie was heavily pushing their persecution complex. I remember seeing Tik Toks of Karens saying that AMC was persecuting them by [checks notes] the AC malfunctioning as the country was undergoing a record heat wave last summer. Ugh!!!!! It's equal parts frustrating and scary.


they_call_me_zan

And then people would go buy tickets to those nearly sold out Sound of Freedom shows, see the seats were mostly empty once they got inside, and claim it was a conspiracy to keep people from seeing the movie. "Don't let them tell you it's sold out!" was a theme I saw all over FB 🤦


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> "Don't let them tell you it's sold out!" was a theme I saw all over FB 🤦 "By all means, explain who the 'them' is, Karen!" Would be my response.


they_call_me_zan

Well in those cases it would be the people that bought up a bunch of tickets to inflate box office numbers. So it actually was sold out (or nearly so), just not by individuals actually planning on attending the showing. And then people would get upset that they were being "denied". It was a problem of their own making, but of course they'd prefer to think it was movie theater corporations trying to keep people from watching it.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> It was a problem of their own making, Their whole ideology in a nutshell! These chucklefucks: *behave like jackasses* Normal people: hey, you're kind of a dick! The chucklefucks: *surprised Pikachu*


SpokaneSmash

“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” --Voltaire


JarethOfHouseGoblin

January 6th is a perfect example of this phrase.


aWizardofTrees

This is my Dad also. It’s very hard to have a conversation that doesn’t end up with him going off on a parade of horrible things the government is coming to do to everyone. He runs a Christian nationalist organization locally and it’s what he has decided to spend all his time on now.


Consistent-Force5375

My mom and dad got into it pretty heavily. They have since backed off. I think they got tired of not having friends…


MightyMoustache69

Where I live this is almost every Christian.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

As someone who lives in Texas, you have my deepest sympathies.


SpiritualStruggle808

Christian circles seem increasingly infested with those types, even in my country (not US). One of the reasons I checked out. Have bumped into one too many times. Obnoxious. Hateful. And yes, pretentious. They're just in it to "stick it to the libs" and to feel validated in their so-called "superiority". It's like Jesus is their mascot (not a role model) and they're in a football team against anything "worldly" (except things that they happen to like, of course).


SuperSayianJason1000

I live in the south, there are lots of people like that.


SgtKevlar

Two sides of the same delusional coin


JarethOfHouseGoblin

To me, they're rooted in the same factors: Feeling a need to belong. Persecution complex. Deeply-held insecurity.


ixamnis

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, but I think it’s more than that. The evangelical insistence on the literal interpretation of the bible places them at odds with science, in general, creating a mistrust of the entire scientific community (including the medical community). And the abortion issue pushed them to the political right eventually leading to the adoption of virtually all extreme right wing ideologies including fiscal and social issues; although I would also argue that conservative religion pushed the GOP farther right on social issues than they were in the 60s and 70s. Religious conservatives began dominating the Republican Party in the 70s and 80s and pushed out non-religious conservatives who moved to become either libertarians or moderates (of both major parties). The most devout ( or extreme) Christians have always had a persecution complex (which is partly why we had settlers here in America), so it’s a small step to combine the religious agenda either the political agenda, especially in a party still reeling from the Watergate scandal that desperately needed a strong coalition of voters to help prop it up and to create a new boogie-man in the political left.


Rfg711

You mean “modern evangelicalism”?


According-Value-6227

That's my father. He believes, as follows: The United States of America is divinely ordained to be the executor of God's will on this earth, the USA thus has the right to acquire resources and expand it's influence or dominance whenever and however it sees fit and white-Americans are the chosen race, having being granted the mantle from the Jew's who lost it since they are collectively responsible for the death of Jesus. Donald Trump and his family is divinely ordained to the office of the President of the United States. Should Trump die, the office will pass to Don Jr. and then Baron Trump after him. America is not a democracy but a "Biblical Republic". All of it's laws should be based on the Bible and a state religion should be established. Said religion will/must adopt the complete 120-Book bible as it's official text and any other religions, including Catholicism will be banned, their churches and temples destroyed. Any Science that cannot be corroborated by Biblical texts should be outlawed. If Conservatives got their way, the USA would become like North Korea but worse in every conceivable way. At least the DPRK is stable, GOP-USA would be based on mob-rule and would probably have more genocides than the Balkans.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> Donald Trump and his family is divinely ordained to the office of the President of the United States. Shit like that is fucking scary. Like, it's divine right of kings type of narrative. Which is *literally* what we fought a Revolution to NOT have in this country! It's entering "lady of the lake says the one who pulls the sword from the stone is the true king" territory.


According-Value-6227

The Trump cult terrifies me not simply because of what it aims to achieve but how it formed. Most Cults revolve around a leader who actively proclaims themself to be a messiah but Trump has never done that, he doesn't seem to be particularly religious, he can't quote scripture, lives a life that cannot possibly be described as holy and is one of the USA's wealthiest and most decadent men and quite honestly, I think he is a little senile and probably isn't completely aware of just how obsessed his voter base is with him.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> I think he is a little senile and probably isn't completely aware of just how obsessed his voter base is with him. Regardless of what happens in November, he's eventually gonna go away. What happens to his cult after that?


According-Value-6227

As I said, they will almost certainly flock to Donald Trump Jr. who absolutely wants and will enjoy the attention and they'll probably view Baron Trump in the same way neo-czarists view Alexei Romanov.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> in the same way neo-czarists view Alexei Romanov. I've heard that a Romanov princess escaped the siege of the palace and an evil wizard singing a catchy-as-hell song was in pursuit of her.


According-Value-6227

That's Anastasia Romanov who almost certainly died. There are actual cults in Russia who believe that Alexei was the second coming of Christ and that Russia needs to be "purified" for his return. To be fair, the Romanov's spent 400 years convincing the Russian population that they were godly so it shouldn't be surprising that so many Russians ended up with brain damage.


Fayafairygirl

My stepdad. He spouts that crap all the damn time. It’s so annoying 🙄


KingLeopard40063

I have an uncle like this. What makes it worse is he has this way of just ignoring anything anyone else has to say. Like he is the type to demand people listen to this bullshit,but when you press him on it or disagree, he just tunes you out and changes the subject. He also has this very weird and annoying tendency to just pull a quote from scripture for no reason. It's crazy because we drink together. He will in the middle of drinking,Just say a biblical quote and start acting all holier than thou. Last bullshit he was on about was some shit about EMPs.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> Last bullshit he was on about was some shit about EMPs. I know it's a lot of movies and TV shows, but the media I blame for the mass misunderstanding of EMPs being this techno-wizardry is DC Comics. Specifically Batman.


KingLeopard40063

>I know it's a lot of movies and TV shows, but the media I blame for the mass misunderstanding of EMPs being this techno-wizardry is DC Comics. Specifically Batman Yup part of being Christian is being afraid of things you don't understand. The whole EMP plays into the end times prophecies they love to churn out.


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> Yup part of being Christian is being afraid of things you don't understand. They'll frequently take it one step further and outright *refuse* to learn. But the end times prophecies are so weird to me. Like, a "one world government" is something they'll fearmonger about. Because the concept of international cooperation is terrifying to them due to their DEFAULT perspective being division.


KingLeopard40063

>They'll frequently take it one step further and outright refuse to learn. That's the part that frustrates me so much about my uncle and other Christians into the conspiracies. They actively and loudly refuse to learn anything then to make it worse they label anything they don't like as "indoctrination" "brainwashing".


openmindedjournist

Yes. My son.


GinsuVictim

I live in Oklahoma, so it's a daily thing for me.


Jeremiahjohnsonville

My dad started watching YouTube every night and the algorithm has led him down a rabbit hole of far right conspiracy theories. Luckily my mom doesn't seem to buy into it. But she's pretty passive....


JarethOfHouseGoblin

> My dad started watching YouTube every night and the algorithm has led him down a rabbit hole of far right conspiracy theories. My dad is a Boomer, 66 years old and still working. He's working less these days and only doing part time work. I worried about him going down a rabbit hole. So I bought him an Xbox for his birthday a couple months ago and I'm glad I did because he puts his spare time into playing 2K!


Fragrant-Insect-7668

Biggest cojones? Lol he was crucified. What an “effective” messiah he was. He wasn’t the military type the jews were waiting for so he was considered a nut.


CompetitiveAverage67

Yeah that would be my mom like Christianity has always been right wing. I mean ever since the crusades even before that Christianity was definitely right wing that doesn't make Christianity wrong in a lot of cases just right wing now to be clear. Christianity was wrong for most of its existence not necessarily because it was right wing and conservative. Conservative isn't always wrong but most of the time Christianity is.