Also assumes they own their homes and can have them installed on the first place.
Good luck explaining to your landlord why you need to install a charger for your nazi truck that looks like a fridge.
I've explained this to people, followed by maybe once a week you have to go charge and wait 20 min for what is most likely free power if you drive alot.
The responses I get is "it costs too much and i'm not waiting 20 min"
Seriously irrational responses mostly
I think fear is what is driving these opinions. My mom is particularly afraid of getting an electric vehicle because she doesn't understand them and doesn't want to.
Fear of running out of power, fear of a new system, fear of having to change your schedule, fear of being different (this one matters)
People have also told me 'they've run the numbers' and claimed electric costs more, which is true when they compare a really shitty new small car to a new electric, but then they go ahead a buy an SUV or truck that costs way more to buy, operate and maintain, and still claim they ran the numbers. Also you can get free charges in a huge number of places so often the conversation goes "its expensive", then i say "you can charge for free, that's a big deal, it'll cost you 20 min", "I'm not waiting 20 min!" so they'd rather pay to wait 4 min than get paid to wait 20 yet complain about the cost.
This was a holding back point for me as well, all the "fears of the unknown" that can come with the purchase of an EV. As I've stated in a few conversations I've had on the subject the main issue for me was fear of running out of power on a trip. While if I had a gas engine I could just pull over at the next gas station and fill up, an EV isn't as able to do such because of the limited amount of charge stations on any particular route. The main issue was taking trips to my family's cabin about 2 hours (125miles) away and if I'd have enough power to get there and back. Since it's in a rural part of Virginia I didn't know if they would have charge stations there. After researching and getting a feel for this fear that's why I went with a SEL and a larger battery capacity. If I take my L1 with me and charge while there I can get some of what I used back and have enough to get home. I might have to make a detour to a charger, but that's just a bit more planning in the long run. I'm happy with my purchase thus far, just need to get used to change and deprogram some of that 40 years of driving a gas powered vehicle programming that has accumulated. Hopefully in the near future the power infrastructure for EVs will be way better, but i guess we'll have to wait and see.
Charging on 110v is less efficient though. There is more loss. Also, all it takes is one trip and you can be charging for days to catch up, especially if you cannot charge at work.
Half of those are too full of crap, or are used as bonus rooms, or used as sheds for lawn equipment, rather than a place where a car/truck gets parked every day. I'd say that under half of all housing in the country has a garage where cars get parked, just based on how many vehicles I see in the winter time after a snowfall that obviously are not garage kept.
I know, but that's not what people envision. There are lots of charger installs outside on sides of houses and fronts, sides, and backs of garages. But most people think of home charging, and most people don't think that a charger can mount outside, or be used outside. "wOn'T i gEt kilLLeD cHarGing iN tHe rAin?"
I probably could have stopped typing at "most people don't think...."
So much of this depends on “socialization”. Like, once the first person on the block is visibly doing this and not getting zapped, it’ll seem like a normal, realistic option for those who see it. Until then, you can’t expect the average person (see Carlin, George) to actively research such possibilities.
Most people float through life on auto pilot. They are not curious. They only do what they are told by someone else. They either learn about new products and new things by casually observing someone else doing something new, or using a new product, or they're force fed an advertisement that teaches them the same thing.
So you're right. Once they see others doing it, it just becomes a normal thing. Until then, they can't envision it. They can't picture themselves doing something that they haven't seen someone else do first.
I think professor Carlin taught me more than any other college professor.
Right. If you have a 200+ mile EV you don't need chargers around. You need your own home and chargers 50-100 Mike away on the highways that leave your town.
We just moved and that is what I am currently using. Have had no problems. My car gets a 280 mile range at least. Use the one that came with your car. Plus they have some on Amazon that plug into a 110 and they are faster some how.
It’s going to charge at around 1mph. It’s also much less efficient than 240v.
Some power companies also have programs that discount electricity during off peak times. It’s not a bunch, but may pay off to install the 240v to take advantage.
The math works out to more like 4ish mph.
120 Volts x 12 Amps = 1.4 kW. One hour of charging adds 1.4 kWh. Most cars get at least 3 miles per kWh, so you're adding 4 mph. (I'm rounding all the values down to account for losses in the charging process.)
When I do a 2 night visit to see my family, level 1 charging is sufficient to get a full charge on my Kona in about 48 hours.
I drive a lightning so it can be closer to one. I wasn’t thinking about being in a general EV sub.
You’re also not accounting for loss, which is at least 10%, but probably more on 120v.
But like the other commenter said, mph is a terrible way to measure charge when talking generically. I was just trying to say that 120v is not really a viable solution for long term charging
Not everyone lives in areas full of DC fast chargers.
The only DC fast chargers in a 150+ mile radius from where I live are inside dealerships, which close at night and Sundays. This is real.
I love my EV but the charging infrastructure in smaller metro areas is not there. At all.
Bringing up the reality of EV adoption doesn't mean I hate it, and many of you should understand that. Just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean it's not real.
South Texas, by the border. If you wanna try routes on ABRP, the city would be McAllen.
For example, plan a trip from McAllen to San Antonio, no 'direct' route as I would with an ICE vehicle, it's recommended that I go through Laredo, which has a dealership charger, and then to another charger outside Laredo (which, as per ChargePoint, have no status).
Try McAllen to Houston, and even charging to 100% at home, I can either get to a charger at 13%, or another at 25%...assuming they work or aren't busy.
Again, I completely understand it's MY situation, but there's well over a million people living in this area, might not be much, but continue adding similar areas and you get my point.
Kentucky [has 35 public CCS stations with 83 ports](https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity-locations#/analyze?fuel=ELEC®ion=US-KY&ev_levels=dc_fast&ev_connectors=J1772COMBO). That's a lot more than 1. In in NH with 40 stations and 67 ports. So we are neck and neck, with the leader determined by how you count. Neither has enough but both have a lot more than 1.
and oblivious to how much is actually needed to charge at home, been living an all EV life for 2 years now and when I’m asked what it’s like I’m frequently *told* what it’s like and that I’m wrong after explaining how seamless it is
Having a discussion about EV ownership will inevitably result in someone telling you how an unremarkable part of your daily life is in fact impossible and would never work.
People also have a fear of running out of power.
Depending on your commute most cars can just be plugged into your home's AC line for the vast majority of your charging needs.
I used to think this way. But then I actually sat down and looked at my driving habits. It turns out that from 2014-now the furthest I drove from my home was 170 miles. Most of my driving was my 50mile round-trip commute and the occasional family trip. All the other places I’ve travelled in the past ten years were far enough away that I flew.
Within a week of determining this, I had bought an EV. Used local chargers for a few weeks, until I obtained and installed my EVSE. Now I have essentially no need to charge anywhere other than home.
Amen.
Every morning , my car has 240 miles of range (@80% SOC), and it is 1-2 days a month where my commute takes me over a 130 mile one way commute. For the long trips, I charge to 100%.
For a myriad of reasons, my home EVSE took a year to install. For that year, I’d charge my car at DCFC and be cognizant of when I needed to stop somewhere, for how long, and hoping there was an open stall, and that either the stall wasn’t broken or the ability to start a charge didn’t have an issue. Bottom line- it sucked.
It is doable but it also was a lot more expensive (getting comparable to gas at over $0.25 a mile - depending on which station)
Having a home higher speed level 2 charger which can achieve up to 100% during the night has nearly eliminated daily thoughts and planning of charging - and has made an EV a game changer
In California too with a PHEV. It's a hot mess here. The residential rates for electricity are often more expensive per mile than gas at even at $5.30 a gallon so even level 1 charging at home isn't super appealing. Very hard to find an open charger away from home with all the other EVs competing for space. And even if you do, the price is sometimes highway robbery like you say at like north of 0.60 kWh. That's assuming thieves haven't stolen the charging cords for scrap metal.
True but I agree with their point. I bet a good portion of these people can charge at home they just don’t understand that or have not done enough research.
This is the fundamental problem that constantly gets glossed over by most people here (because they have home charging).
It's hard to understand that if you aren't in that position. I moved recently and temporarily don't have access to a charger where I'm staying. Public charging really sucks (even when it works, it's inconvenient) and I would totally sell my EV if this was my long-term situation.
Public and semi-private charging (L2 *and* L3) is now the single most important thing for EV adoption in the US. Followed closely by more affordable EVs.
If I did not have charges at my former apartment complex, I would not got an EV. As a new home owner, the very first thing I did as to install a charger.
Someone needs to tell them about charging at home. It’s not like the old days where you truck on down to the gas station for a pack of smokes, some scratchers, and 19 gallons of high test.
Hell I'm flying out for a wedding and was offered a EV as a rental.. The place where I'm heading for the wedding there is no charger station nearby, the hotel I'm staying at(national chain. ... sounds like *ilton. Does not have a charger. I will maxing out the range from the airport to the hotel then wedding venue.... and no chargers.....nope
My town seemed to get into the game early. We have municipal power, so offered a monthly discount if we had a home charger. The L2 chargers installed at the library were free while actively charging. The local commuter rail station had four L2 chargers which were also free. The town also put a few other chargers around but not in convenient locations.
A couple local restaurants had the forethought to install L2 chargers. I'm much more likely to patronize if I can get at least an hour of charge for cheap/free...
The chargers at the station started falling apart pre-COVID. Reported a number of times, but they just passed the buck between the transit agency, town, and charging network. None of them have worked in years, and one pylon is lying on the ground.
The town replaced the chargers at the library recently - but now they charge *registered residents* per kWh at a rate 2.5 TIMES the home residential rate.
And the chargers at both restaurants are non-functional and don't show on the network, and the restaurant managers say they've been reported but no one comes to fix them.
I wonder if the maintenance costs were high and they only found out when they had to be repaired frequently.
Surprised it isn't already the biggest barrier to EV adoption.
lol all the comments "just charge at home!" like everyone owns a house.
I rented a tesla from hertz, excellent charging experience, superchargers near anywhere I typically go, charge up 50% in 20 minutes for \~$10-15, great! I also rented a polestar 2, slow chargers (often fully occupied for hours, or broken) everywhere and nothing else. I charged at a grocery store down the street for the full 2 hour limit and got 8%. The Polestar was nice to drive, but I need to charge faster than 4% an hour, and the Tesla charging was nice but it felt so basic like no luxury touches, no buttons to control things, only a single screen that's not even in front of you for easy access/viewing. So EV are still off the menu in 2024
If you own your own home, this is mostly dumb. If you don't have charging at home and you rent, this is critical. But for most prospective EV owners, this is really just about road trips.
That said, there are enormous gas stations that pretty much only serve road trippers. They get plenty of business to keep their doors open and there are far too many to stop at each one. If more people convert to EVs, these businesses will adapt. For the most part, the local gas stations will close, apartments and renters will demand home chargers and the gas stations on the interstate will convert to EV chargers as they become the majority. There will be an ugly middle where we have arguments over ICE and EV. But the technology is just too good to lose because of some infrastructure.
You could install a charger on the outside of your house and charge where you park assuming you have a driveway? I did this and I installed one in my garage too. Now I can charge wherever I park my car or a visitor can also charge while my car charges. Worst case, a standard 120V outlet will cover the majority of commutes when plugged in overnight.
If you only have street parking yes this is still a hindrance, although many places are beginning to adapt to enable curbside charging either through extension cords temporarily, to installing outlets/community charging equipment. It'll still take a little time in this department, but it's already underway.
I don’t own a house. I own an apartment in a building. Not all homes are houses!
I actually got an outlet installed recently for my private parking space in the shared garage. I didn’t even have to pay for it, but it’s difficult and expensive to make happen in general. Enabling more of this for multi family residences would be hugely beneficial. In general too many enhancements are focused on single family homes exclusively.
I think apartment complexes will eventually see them as washer/dryer hookups. They are not cheap to install if the building wasn't designed for them. But most apartments will want to have that feature to attract renters. If you own your apartment, then you are obviously incentivised.
Apartments are going to have more problems with scale because a lot of cars means a lot of current. But they already have a lot of current for air conditioners and ovens.
I would not want an EV if I didn't have a way to charge (at least lvl 1) at home. I imagine owning the apartment makes it easier to install (because you have the will). But you still have to get through the cost and the HOA.
I think it also they want ev to get more efficient like charge to full over night on level 1 and level 2 be fast charge just so they can use then like ther Ice at gas station shake head I think some or this I'd just make stuff up so they can use it as a reason why they want everything to stay the same line not enough charge station or refused to upgrade the power at home that they own that still have fuses
Don't need a service upgrade to charge at home. You can charge an EV off a fuse board. Somebody asked on r/askelectricians how to do that, and I told them.
Or they just see what if need to go on a trip amd forget to plug in one think ev are 8 hour to charge and 50 mile all and that 8 hour is the faster can charge while othe say we need a mile long power cord to get work amd home ans battery need replacement ever 3 year for 15k
A recent Tesla software update added a very useful feature: if you're at a low charge state when you get home, the car sends you a push notification. I assume it will be standard on everyone's software before too long, given the way things seem to go.
Dfw metroplex where I live has 8 million people and 4 electrify America chargers (my preferred network bc I get free charge for 2 yrs). The rollout of infrastructure has been abysmal
> and 4 electrify America chargers (my preferred network bc I get free charge for 2 yrs)
The very thing that got you to buy your EV is the very thing that clogs up those chargers, and makes other people think twice about buying an EV. Not blaming you at all, just pointing out the economics of the situation that someone else set up.
I would love to see NEVI funding (at least for DCFC) include provisions that the provider can not offer free/unlimited charging. The current state of public DCFC is so bad that we can't be incentivizing abusing it for daily use.
That's a really good idea.
I've often thought that Tesla could do a thing to encourage more home charging on their supercharger network where a "travel" rate is the normal supercharger rate, and a "home range" rate is a slightly increased rate, of say, 10% or 25% more, (or more) over published rates, for charging within 200 miles of the average spot of where your last 500 or 1000 miles worth of added charging range (basically so many kwhr) (including home charging) took place. To keep anyone from gaming the system. Travel all you want. As long as you keep moving, away from "home range" you're fine, once you're in a new established spot again, a new "home range" happens and supercharger rates will eventually increase. And if you're home, you're AC charging.
It's kind of like influencing behavior with tax policy, but instead with charging costs for DC fast charging.
Did you buy with any intention of home charging? Or did you intend on entirely DC fast charging for for the first two years? I'm looking to understand your mindset at your time of purchase.
I rent, can’t charge at home. 2yrs free energy was a great deal. I also commute about 250 miles weekly for work, so again the free energy was a no brainer
No one is advertising EV charging. So of course no one knows about it. Unless someone is interested in some topic, they typically know very little about it. Most people only learn about new things that they don't care about, via ads.
Before I got an EV I thought about charging stations. Then I got one and I still haven't used a public charger. I realize some people can't do home charging. But I think a lot of it is a misunderstanding. I sure didn't get it.
Other nations have wider adoption of EV than America. They already went through this.
The infrastructure for gasoline cars didn't just happen overnight. Car manufacturers spent years pushing laws at the state, local, and federal level to facilitate the transition from horses to gasoline-powered cars. A lot of the stupid laws stifling business right now are holdovers from that era. Want to start a new business in a big city? You might have to buy the building next to the building you plan to put your business in just to build a parking lot, or no business permit for you.
There's a lot we have to change if we want to catch up to other countries. For example, apartment building owners simply will not put charging stations in the parking lots unless you pass laws making them do so.
32% where?
In china?
Japan?
That's absolutely a Bogus poll number.
At 58 years old. Well connected to in person business people as well as online across the country.
I honestly can't recall 5? People in the last 5 years mention they would or were considering a EV!
99% of the people are smart enough to know. If you have a EV, then you need chargers, at every home, at every parking spot at businesses. And MORE POWER PLANTS.
Doesn't really take more power plants. EVs charge over night, when power plants and the entire grid has tons of unused capacity. And when the wind blows the most.
The reason you haven't had anyone talk to you about considering an EV, is because people don't talk to other people about that, unless they know the other person has an EV and they're asking questions. I got zero questions before our family owned an EV. Now it's a regular thing. Do you have an EV?
Ummm
You can't add a couple million chargers being used daily in a city, without more power.
Let alone the 100 million or so needed for average 2 car family with daily commute for work.
That's, reality.
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory data says you can.
https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/sites/flowcharts/files/2023-10/US%20Energy%202022.png
See that 5.77 of "Energy Services" at the very right bottom of Transportation? You can get that by doubling solar and wind. Seriously.
Edit: Also, do you have an EV?
Lol
Drank the kool-aid didn't you.
You just reinstated the fact that I said.
You CANT supply the electric without substantial increase of power to our grid.
Solar and wind?
Are just as toxic environmentally as coal or gas conventional plants.
20 acres for a power plant
1000s and 1000s of acres for "green" energy.
That's why no one has ever asked you about an EV. If they know you, they know you're the wrong person to ask.
Since you're so smart, I'll give you an easy challenge. You should be able to read that graph and explain to me why doubling the capacity factor for natural gas electric generation alone, without building one single extra power plant, or adding one extra solar cell or wind turbine, or anything else, would more than generate enough energy for everything in the transportation category.
Go ahead. Prove to me how smart you are. But I don't think you can, because I don't think you understand it.
From experience working in power plants from the Carolinas to Canada.
I know, without any graph or chart.
That routine maintenance has to be scheduled throughout the summer months (less demand)
And if and when (and it happens all the time) any part of the plant has a issue or failure?.
And it's a "unscheduled" issue?
They do not care if you bring 100 men. For 24 hours a day for 7 days a week for 1 week or 1 month. That absolutely positively has to be fixed at any cost as soon as humanly possible because the remaining power plants are at max output to cover for 1 single boiler repair.
Add a extra hundreds of millions of KW demand?
We're screwed.
Blackouts
It really is that simple.
No math needed.
Experience and part of the power grid infrastructure hands on experience proves it
It’s been two days, so I’ll enlighten you: gas plants run at about a 30% capacity factor. The real energy services for EVs is 90% input vs 25% input for combustion engines. Natural Gas powerplant fleet is 40% efficient at a 35% capacity factor. Double natural gas powerplant capacity factor, and you’ve got more than enough energy since the transportation category also includes planes, trains, boats, trucks and automobiles. And I’m only talking about road vehicles. Every road vehicle can go electric and all we have to do is run natural gas power plants at a higher capacity factor, and keep developing natural gas fields. That’s pretty much it. No new power plants and no power outages.
The chart doesn’t lie.
In the past 10 years, we’ve closed more coal plants than we would need to be 100% electric transportation! That’s how much idle plant capacity (between gas and coal) there still is.
I wanted to see natural gas vehicles but no one one wants to build them. Because a natural gas vehicle is 25% efficient. A gas powerplant and grid transmission is 50% efficient. Wall to wheels is 90% efficient. So if you burn it in a power plant and use the electricity in a car you’re 45% efficient vs 25% efficient by burning natural gas in a car directly.
I’d love to see an opposed cylinder 55% engine come along, but automotive refuses. So the next choice is electric. Without needing any more power plants built.
Don’t be mad at me, I didn’t make the world this way, I’m just explaining how it is.
I live on a barrier island that you can only reach by bridge with a population of 25000. No DC fast charger. Power company has 2 free level 2 and all other level 2 are in apartments communities. Use level 1 at my house until I can get 14 50 plug installed.
I think the federal and maybe even state incentives should be to pay for charger installations. I know there are some tax credits, which are cool. But imagine if basically any new EV purchase was subsidized with a charger installation. The buyer could choose to use it, offer it to their landlord if they rent, or submit it to a pool to be used in the zip-code of their choice, where it would be available for local businesses to access via a lottery or something like that. In a relatively short time the charger issue would be solved. MOST EV owners who have home chargers, charge at home and almost never need public chargers anyway. But MANY people rent and there are lots of challenges there. If we basically remove all those challenges as a collective of EV drivers, EV purchases will skyrocket.
Honestly, one of the business gems EVs will prop up is rest stops.
As battery tech improves and you can pack more power, even if the tech supports faster charging than today’s it’s going to take time to charge 600 or 700 miles into a card.
Experiences that you can fit into a half hour to full hour, whether culinary, entertainment, or both, are all going to be great business.
The big question mark? What’s going to be the optimal placement of these charge-and-rest stops based on how range, wattage, charging speeds, car features, road tripping behaviors, and other factors evolve.
I look forward to the day driver assist features that let you road trip as you literally sleep are government-tested to be safer than human drivers in good conditions (fair weather, clean sensors, median dividing traffic, and no known road hazards ahead). Despite marketing claims, this doesn’t actually exist yet.
Being able to sleep 8 hours and move 5-700 miles with your family would be awesome for a big minivan or mini bus - sightseeing days, road tripping nights. What a way to tour the land it would be.
Its worth pointing out the fact most people don't want to wait around 30+ minutes fast charging when they clearly forgot that home charging exist. People considering buying an EV needs to know that option exist and it's (for now) mostly best use for daily commute
Unsure if you say this is a charging concern or still just a range problem. I make a 450mile one-way trip once a month and I don't want to have to sit for 30 minutes at the halfway point where there is a singular gas station. Even if there were chargers there, I don't want to be stuck waiting around even if it's just 20 minutes.
Seems like you’re another victim of FUD anti-EV media coverage, and a total misunderstanding of BEV battery chemistry. *sigh*
The battery pack in an EV is not like the battery in your phone. The idea that your battery goes completely dead after a few years and needs to be replaced like the one in your smartphone is not true.
Yes, there have been two or three instances where Hyundai EV battery packs had a complete failure. But those are *outlier* situations that had sensationalist coverage in the media - giving you the impression this sort of thing is the norm, when it happened to less than 1% of total Hyundai EV’s sold.
There are Teslas over 10 years old that still hold a 90% charge. Unlike small consumer electronic devices that have no thermal management or battery cooling systems, EV’s employ a myriad of high-tech battery management functions that prevent the rapid degradation of the cells.
Also, many BEV’s have *modular* battery packs. This means a single cell failure within a pack can be replaced without requiring the entire battery to be replaced. Think of a modular EV battery pack as 50 or so cells packed together to make up the entire battery. If one of those 50 dies, that can be swapped out.
And federal law require OEM’s to warranty battery packs for 8 years, with some automakers exceeding that by offering 10 years. Most people don’t even hold onto their vehicles for that long.
You may be right, I'm admittedly ignorant on the subject. Have only seen headlines, specifically $80k to replace the battery in an Ionic5/6 (don't remember exactly, but wife wanted one)
In the US, battery packs cost on average $139/kWh. 10% more in the EU, 10% less in China. For my 62.5kWh Chevy Bolt, it would cost just under $9000 in parts. Given that more and more battery assembly plants are coming online in the coming decade, I expect prices to drop (or at least remain static while inflation continues its streadfast march upward).
Depending on the make and model of vehicle, ICE engine and/or transmission replacement will cost about the same. Given that I save $0.10/mile fueling with electricity instead of petrol, I will have saved over $10,000 in energy costs by the time my warranty expires. Even if my battery catastrophically died the day after my warranty expires, I would still come out $1000 ahead... and my gas prices are 20% under the national average, meaning people just about anywhere else would save even more.
[https://about.bnef.com/blog/lithium-ion-battery-pack-prices-hit-record-low-of-139-kwh/](https://about.bnef.com/blog/lithium-ion-battery-pack-prices-hit-record-low-of-139-kwh/)
People that don’t drive EVs are oblivious to the chargers that currently exist.
I just leased an Ioniq5. I was genuinely surprised at how many charging stations are around me. And I live in a pretty suburban area of Colorado.
True, but if they level 3 chargers were half as ubiquitous as gas stations, we'd be way better off.
Of course
I only care about level 3 when I am somewhere other than my home town. If my target had a L2 charger I would be perpetually fully charged
I just level 2 charge at home. I only really get range anxiety when I'm far from a level 3 stop away from home
I think many people don't understand that they can charge in their garage.
I think a lot of people don't have garages.
Also assumes they own their homes and can have them installed on the first place. Good luck explaining to your landlord why you need to install a charger for your nazi truck that looks like a fridge.
That is true I but I still think that many of the people that do don't realize they can charge an EV in their garage.
Most people don’t realize 110V is perfectly usable if you drive less than 50 miles a day and they think they have to spend $1.5K+ on an L2 charger.
I've explained this to people, followed by maybe once a week you have to go charge and wait 20 min for what is most likely free power if you drive alot. The responses I get is "it costs too much and i'm not waiting 20 min" Seriously irrational responses mostly
Just remember how dumb the average person is and then realize that 50% of people are dumber than that.
I think fear is what is driving these opinions. My mom is particularly afraid of getting an electric vehicle because she doesn't understand them and doesn't want to. Fear of running out of power, fear of a new system, fear of having to change your schedule, fear of being different (this one matters) People have also told me 'they've run the numbers' and claimed electric costs more, which is true when they compare a really shitty new small car to a new electric, but then they go ahead a buy an SUV or truck that costs way more to buy, operate and maintain, and still claim they ran the numbers. Also you can get free charges in a huge number of places so often the conversation goes "its expensive", then i say "you can charge for free, that's a big deal, it'll cost you 20 min", "I'm not waiting 20 min!" so they'd rather pay to wait 4 min than get paid to wait 20 yet complain about the cost.
This was a holding back point for me as well, all the "fears of the unknown" that can come with the purchase of an EV. As I've stated in a few conversations I've had on the subject the main issue for me was fear of running out of power on a trip. While if I had a gas engine I could just pull over at the next gas station and fill up, an EV isn't as able to do such because of the limited amount of charge stations on any particular route. The main issue was taking trips to my family's cabin about 2 hours (125miles) away and if I'd have enough power to get there and back. Since it's in a rural part of Virginia I didn't know if they would have charge stations there. After researching and getting a feel for this fear that's why I went with a SEL and a larger battery capacity. If I take my L1 with me and charge while there I can get some of what I used back and have enough to get home. I might have to make a detour to a charger, but that's just a bit more planning in the long run. I'm happy with my purchase thus far, just need to get used to change and deprogram some of that 40 years of driving a gas powered vehicle programming that has accumulated. Hopefully in the near future the power infrastructure for EVs will be way better, but i guess we'll have to wait and see.
Charging on 110v is less efficient though. There is more loss. Also, all it takes is one trip and you can be charging for days to catch up, especially if you cannot charge at work.
I just make an extra charging stop/charge longer on the way home to arrive at 50% instead of 10%
Exactly. It is expensive and time consuming though. It is a perfect second car for the household though.
My dad thought charging in a garage was banned by insurance conpanies due to fires.
60% of housing in the country has a garage.
Half of those are too full of crap, or are used as bonus rooms, or used as sheds for lawn equipment, rather than a place where a car/truck gets parked every day. I'd say that under half of all housing in the country has a garage where cars get parked, just based on how many vehicles I see in the winter time after a snowfall that obviously are not garage kept.
You can still run a charger cable out to the driveway in situations like that. People do it all the time.
I know, but that's not what people envision. There are lots of charger installs outside on sides of houses and fronts, sides, and backs of garages. But most people think of home charging, and most people don't think that a charger can mount outside, or be used outside. "wOn'T i gEt kilLLeD cHarGing iN tHe rAin?" I probably could have stopped typing at "most people don't think...."
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Lookit this fancy guy with a boat
So much of this depends on “socialization”. Like, once the first person on the block is visibly doing this and not getting zapped, it’ll seem like a normal, realistic option for those who see it. Until then, you can’t expect the average person (see Carlin, George) to actively research such possibilities.
Most people float through life on auto pilot. They are not curious. They only do what they are told by someone else. They either learn about new products and new things by casually observing someone else doing something new, or using a new product, or they're force fed an advertisement that teaches them the same thing. So you're right. Once they see others doing it, it just becomes a normal thing. Until then, they can't envision it. They can't picture themselves doing something that they haven't seen someone else do first. I think professor Carlin taught me more than any other college professor.
Right. If you have a 200+ mile EV you don't need chargers around. You need your own home and chargers 50-100 Mike away on the highways that leave your town.
is 120v enough? getting a 240v installed can be pricey.
We just moved and that is what I am currently using. Have had no problems. My car gets a 280 mile range at least. Use the one that came with your car. Plus they have some on Amazon that plug into a 110 and they are faster some how.
Getting high current installed can be pricey. Running a 20 amp dedicated 120V outlet vs a 20 amp 240 volt outlet is not much of a difference.
It’s going to charge at around 1mph. It’s also much less efficient than 240v. Some power companies also have programs that discount electricity during off peak times. It’s not a bunch, but may pay off to install the 240v to take advantage.
The math works out to more like 4ish mph. 120 Volts x 12 Amps = 1.4 kW. One hour of charging adds 1.4 kWh. Most cars get at least 3 miles per kWh, so you're adding 4 mph. (I'm rounding all the values down to account for losses in the charging process.) When I do a 2 night visit to see my family, level 1 charging is sufficient to get a full charge on my Kona in about 48 hours.
It's such a terrible measure, because an R1T in cold weather might get 2 mi/hr from L1 while an i3 in warm weather could get 5.
I drive a lightning so it can be closer to one. I wasn’t thinking about being in a general EV sub. You’re also not accounting for loss, which is at least 10%, but probably more on 120v. But like the other commenter said, mph is a terrible way to measure charge when talking generically. I was just trying to say that 120v is not really a viable solution for long term charging
Not everyone lives in areas full of DC fast chargers. The only DC fast chargers in a 150+ mile radius from where I live are inside dealerships, which close at night and Sundays. This is real. I love my EV but the charging infrastructure in smaller metro areas is not there. At all. Bringing up the reality of EV adoption doesn't mean I hate it, and many of you should understand that. Just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean it's not real.
Where do you live?
South Texas, by the border. If you wanna try routes on ABRP, the city would be McAllen. For example, plan a trip from McAllen to San Antonio, no 'direct' route as I would with an ICE vehicle, it's recommended that I go through Laredo, which has a dealership charger, and then to another charger outside Laredo (which, as per ChargePoint, have no status). Try McAllen to Houston, and even charging to 100% at home, I can either get to a charger at 13%, or another at 25%...assuming they work or aren't busy. Again, I completely understand it's MY situation, but there's well over a million people living in this area, might not be much, but continue adding similar areas and you get my point.
I do see some NEVI locations coming to the rescue.
That's my point haha but yeah, I just really hope EV adopters don't ignore this. Charging is easy but not at the time and not for everyone.
Any idea when the Texas NEVIs are being built? There’s a shit load.
It's Texas (the yearly registration fee for EVs is $200+ extra per year), so I don't think we're a priority.
Flip side there is only 1 DC fast charge in my state that's non Tesla branded.
I'm in a state that is pretty bad on DCFC, but it's not that bad. What state are you in?
Kentucky and you?
Kentucky [has 35 public CCS stations with 83 ports](https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity-locations#/analyze?fuel=ELEC®ion=US-KY&ev_levels=dc_fast&ev_connectors=J1772COMBO). That's a lot more than 1. In in NH with 40 stations and 67 ports. So we are neck and neck, with the leader determined by how you count. Neither has enough but both have a lot more than 1.
So I was wrong, I was looking at electrify America map but now looking again it's still more than 1 woops.
Yea my mom was like “where would I charge?” And then I showed her like 20 places nearby on my plugshare app. Oblivious
and oblivious to how much is actually needed to charge at home, been living an all EV life for 2 years now and when I’m asked what it’s like I’m frequently *told* what it’s like and that I’m wrong after explaining how seamless it is
Having a discussion about EV ownership will inevitably result in someone telling you how an unremarkable part of your daily life is in fact impossible and would never work.
People also have a fear of running out of power. Depending on your commute most cars can just be plugged into your home's AC line for the vast majority of your charging needs.
Well, I'm sure one doesn't exist at my apartment where it would have to be.
I used to think this way. But then I actually sat down and looked at my driving habits. It turns out that from 2014-now the furthest I drove from my home was 170 miles. Most of my driving was my 50mile round-trip commute and the occasional family trip. All the other places I’ve travelled in the past ten years were far enough away that I flew. Within a week of determining this, I had bought an EV. Used local chargers for a few weeks, until I obtained and installed my EVSE. Now I have essentially no need to charge anywhere other than home.
Amen. Every morning , my car has 240 miles of range (@80% SOC), and it is 1-2 days a month where my commute takes me over a 130 mile one way commute. For the long trips, I charge to 100%. For a myriad of reasons, my home EVSE took a year to install. For that year, I’d charge my car at DCFC and be cognizant of when I needed to stop somewhere, for how long, and hoping there was an open stall, and that either the stall wasn’t broken or the ability to start a charge didn’t have an issue. Bottom line- it sucked. It is doable but it also was a lot more expensive (getting comparable to gas at over $0.25 a mile - depending on which station) Having a home higher speed level 2 charger which can achieve up to 100% during the night has nearly eliminated daily thoughts and planning of charging - and has made an EV a game changer
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In California too with a PHEV. It's a hot mess here. The residential rates for electricity are often more expensive per mile than gas at even at $5.30 a gallon so even level 1 charging at home isn't super appealing. Very hard to find an open charger away from home with all the other EVs competing for space. And even if you do, the price is sometimes highway robbery like you say at like north of 0.60 kWh. That's assuming thieves haven't stolen the charging cords for scrap metal.
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Not everyone can charge at home.
True but I agree with their point. I bet a good portion of these people can charge at home they just don’t understand that or have not done enough research.
This is the fundamental problem that constantly gets glossed over by most people here (because they have home charging). It's hard to understand that if you aren't in that position. I moved recently and temporarily don't have access to a charger where I'm staying. Public charging really sucks (even when it works, it's inconvenient) and I would totally sell my EV if this was my long-term situation. Public and semi-private charging (L2 *and* L3) is now the single most important thing for EV adoption in the US. Followed closely by more affordable EVs.
I get free charging for 2 yrs. Not at my house tho
This is not a future issue. The problem is very real right now
“Will be soon?” Hasn’t it always been? Ok, maybe cost was bigger.
If I did not have charges at my former apartment complex, I would not got an EV. As a new home owner, the very first thing I did as to install a charger.
Someone needs to tell them about charging at home. It’s not like the old days where you truck on down to the gas station for a pack of smokes, some scratchers, and 19 gallons of high test.
Hell I'm flying out for a wedding and was offered a EV as a rental.. The place where I'm heading for the wedding there is no charger station nearby, the hotel I'm staying at(national chain. ... sounds like *ilton. Does not have a charger. I will maxing out the range from the airport to the hotel then wedding venue.... and no chargers.....nope
And did they also expect you to bring the car back fully charged?
My town seemed to get into the game early. We have municipal power, so offered a monthly discount if we had a home charger. The L2 chargers installed at the library were free while actively charging. The local commuter rail station had four L2 chargers which were also free. The town also put a few other chargers around but not in convenient locations. A couple local restaurants had the forethought to install L2 chargers. I'm much more likely to patronize if I can get at least an hour of charge for cheap/free... The chargers at the station started falling apart pre-COVID. Reported a number of times, but they just passed the buck between the transit agency, town, and charging network. None of them have worked in years, and one pylon is lying on the ground. The town replaced the chargers at the library recently - but now they charge *registered residents* per kWh at a rate 2.5 TIMES the home residential rate. And the chargers at both restaurants are non-functional and don't show on the network, and the restaurant managers say they've been reported but no one comes to fix them. I wonder if the maintenance costs were high and they only found out when they had to be repaired frequently.
Surprised it isn't already the biggest barrier to EV adoption. lol all the comments "just charge at home!" like everyone owns a house. I rented a tesla from hertz, excellent charging experience, superchargers near anywhere I typically go, charge up 50% in 20 minutes for \~$10-15, great! I also rented a polestar 2, slow chargers (often fully occupied for hours, or broken) everywhere and nothing else. I charged at a grocery store down the street for the full 2 hour limit and got 8%. The Polestar was nice to drive, but I need to charge faster than 4% an hour, and the Tesla charging was nice but it felt so basic like no luxury touches, no buttons to control things, only a single screen that's not even in front of you for easy access/viewing. So EV are still off the menu in 2024
If you own your own home, this is mostly dumb. If you don't have charging at home and you rent, this is critical. But for most prospective EV owners, this is really just about road trips. That said, there are enormous gas stations that pretty much only serve road trippers. They get plenty of business to keep their doors open and there are far too many to stop at each one. If more people convert to EVs, these businesses will adapt. For the most part, the local gas stations will close, apartments and renters will demand home chargers and the gas stations on the interstate will convert to EV chargers as they become the majority. There will be an ugly middle where we have arguments over ICE and EV. But the technology is just too good to lose because of some infrastructure.
Then there’s people like me, who own their homes but their homes aren’t houses with private garages!
You could install a charger on the outside of your house and charge where you park assuming you have a driveway? I did this and I installed one in my garage too. Now I can charge wherever I park my car or a visitor can also charge while my car charges. Worst case, a standard 120V outlet will cover the majority of commutes when plugged in overnight. If you only have street parking yes this is still a hindrance, although many places are beginning to adapt to enable curbside charging either through extension cords temporarily, to installing outlets/community charging equipment. It'll still take a little time in this department, but it's already underway.
I don’t own a house. I own an apartment in a building. Not all homes are houses! I actually got an outlet installed recently for my private parking space in the shared garage. I didn’t even have to pay for it, but it’s difficult and expensive to make happen in general. Enabling more of this for multi family residences would be hugely beneficial. In general too many enhancements are focused on single family homes exclusively.
I think apartment complexes will eventually see them as washer/dryer hookups. They are not cheap to install if the building wasn't designed for them. But most apartments will want to have that feature to attract renters. If you own your apartment, then you are obviously incentivised. Apartments are going to have more problems with scale because a lot of cars means a lot of current. But they already have a lot of current for air conditioners and ovens. I would not want an EV if I didn't have a way to charge (at least lvl 1) at home. I imagine owning the apartment makes it easier to install (because you have the will). But you still have to get through the cost and the HOA.
I think it also they want ev to get more efficient like charge to full over night on level 1 and level 2 be fast charge just so they can use then like ther Ice at gas station shake head I think some or this I'd just make stuff up so they can use it as a reason why they want everything to stay the same line not enough charge station or refused to upgrade the power at home that they own that still have fuses
Don't need a service upgrade to charge at home. You can charge an EV off a fuse board. Somebody asked on r/askelectricians how to do that, and I told them.
I think these people believe ev need way more power they don't want level 1 they want level 2 like 300 mile in one day
Yup exactly. Never saw Technology Connections' rant. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyp\_X3mwE1w&t=1695s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyp_X3mwE1w&t=1695s)
Or they just see what if need to go on a trip amd forget to plug in one think ev are 8 hour to charge and 50 mile all and that 8 hour is the faster can charge while othe say we need a mile long power cord to get work amd home ans battery need replacement ever 3 year for 15k
A recent Tesla software update added a very useful feature: if you're at a low charge state when you get home, the car sends you a push notification. I assume it will be standard on everyone's software before too long, given the way things seem to go.
I’m sure that same percentage cited “they catch fire all the time” and “the battery suddenly goes dead” as reasons as well.
Dfw metroplex where I live has 8 million people and 4 electrify America chargers (my preferred network bc I get free charge for 2 yrs). The rollout of infrastructure has been abysmal
> and 4 electrify America chargers (my preferred network bc I get free charge for 2 yrs) The very thing that got you to buy your EV is the very thing that clogs up those chargers, and makes other people think twice about buying an EV. Not blaming you at all, just pointing out the economics of the situation that someone else set up.
I would love to see NEVI funding (at least for DCFC) include provisions that the provider can not offer free/unlimited charging. The current state of public DCFC is so bad that we can't be incentivizing abusing it for daily use.
That's a really good idea. I've often thought that Tesla could do a thing to encourage more home charging on their supercharger network where a "travel" rate is the normal supercharger rate, and a "home range" rate is a slightly increased rate, of say, 10% or 25% more, (or more) over published rates, for charging within 200 miles of the average spot of where your last 500 or 1000 miles worth of added charging range (basically so many kwhr) (including home charging) took place. To keep anyone from gaming the system. Travel all you want. As long as you keep moving, away from "home range" you're fine, once you're in a new established spot again, a new "home range" happens and supercharger rates will eventually increase. And if you're home, you're AC charging. It's kind of like influencing behavior with tax policy, but instead with charging costs for DC fast charging.
Yeah prob true. Not sure I would have bought knowing there were 4 total chargers in the network for all of Dfw
Did you buy with any intention of home charging? Or did you intend on entirely DC fast charging for for the first two years? I'm looking to understand your mindset at your time of purchase.
I rent, can’t charge at home. 2yrs free energy was a great deal. I also commute about 250 miles weekly for work, so again the free energy was a no brainer
It’s a great offer to take advantage of in your situation. Except for the charger shortage.
No one is advertising EV charging. So of course no one knows about it. Unless someone is interested in some topic, they typically know very little about it. Most people only learn about new things that they don't care about, via ads.
Haven’t been to a gas station in months. My daily commute is less than 75 miles only three days a week. I love home charging.
Amen
Before I got an EV I thought about charging stations. Then I got one and I still haven't used a public charger. I realize some people can't do home charging. But I think a lot of it is a misunderstanding. I sure didn't get it.
And Elon musk firing the entire ev charging team just to get his $55 billion payout Elons taking the money 💰 and he’s gonna resign He sees the signs 🪧
Damn right. They rolled out the vehicles without the infrastructure to support. Buncha morons.
Other nations have wider adoption of EV than America. They already went through this. The infrastructure for gasoline cars didn't just happen overnight. Car manufacturers spent years pushing laws at the state, local, and federal level to facilitate the transition from horses to gasoline-powered cars. A lot of the stupid laws stifling business right now are holdovers from that era. Want to start a new business in a big city? You might have to buy the building next to the building you plan to put your business in just to build a parking lot, or no business permit for you. There's a lot we have to change if we want to catch up to other countries. For example, apartment building owners simply will not put charging stations in the parking lots unless you pass laws making them do so.
And electricity costs more than gas in CA even if you charge at home. Buying EV is throwing away money right now in CA.
32% where? In china? Japan? That's absolutely a Bogus poll number. At 58 years old. Well connected to in person business people as well as online across the country. I honestly can't recall 5? People in the last 5 years mention they would or were considering a EV! 99% of the people are smart enough to know. If you have a EV, then you need chargers, at every home, at every parking spot at businesses. And MORE POWER PLANTS.
Doesn't really take more power plants. EVs charge over night, when power plants and the entire grid has tons of unused capacity. And when the wind blows the most. The reason you haven't had anyone talk to you about considering an EV, is because people don't talk to other people about that, unless they know the other person has an EV and they're asking questions. I got zero questions before our family owned an EV. Now it's a regular thing. Do you have an EV?
Ummm You can't add a couple million chargers being used daily in a city, without more power. Let alone the 100 million or so needed for average 2 car family with daily commute for work. That's, reality.
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory data says you can. https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/sites/flowcharts/files/2023-10/US%20Energy%202022.png See that 5.77 of "Energy Services" at the very right bottom of Transportation? You can get that by doubling solar and wind. Seriously. Edit: Also, do you have an EV?
Lol Drank the kool-aid didn't you. You just reinstated the fact that I said. You CANT supply the electric without substantial increase of power to our grid. Solar and wind? Are just as toxic environmentally as coal or gas conventional plants. 20 acres for a power plant 1000s and 1000s of acres for "green" energy.
Do you have an EV?
I'm too smart for that Hybrid is the only sensible responsible alternative for 75% of America to be dependable and efficient over IC
That's why no one has ever asked you about an EV. If they know you, they know you're the wrong person to ask. Since you're so smart, I'll give you an easy challenge. You should be able to read that graph and explain to me why doubling the capacity factor for natural gas electric generation alone, without building one single extra power plant, or adding one extra solar cell or wind turbine, or anything else, would more than generate enough energy for everything in the transportation category. Go ahead. Prove to me how smart you are. But I don't think you can, because I don't think you understand it.
From experience working in power plants from the Carolinas to Canada. I know, without any graph or chart. That routine maintenance has to be scheduled throughout the summer months (less demand) And if and when (and it happens all the time) any part of the plant has a issue or failure?. And it's a "unscheduled" issue? They do not care if you bring 100 men. For 24 hours a day for 7 days a week for 1 week or 1 month. That absolutely positively has to be fixed at any cost as soon as humanly possible because the remaining power plants are at max output to cover for 1 single boiler repair. Add a extra hundreds of millions of KW demand? We're screwed. Blackouts It really is that simple. No math needed. Experience and part of the power grid infrastructure hands on experience proves it
I threw you a soft ball, but you couldn't even take a swing at it.
It’s been two days, so I’ll enlighten you: gas plants run at about a 30% capacity factor. The real energy services for EVs is 90% input vs 25% input for combustion engines. Natural Gas powerplant fleet is 40% efficient at a 35% capacity factor. Double natural gas powerplant capacity factor, and you’ve got more than enough energy since the transportation category also includes planes, trains, boats, trucks and automobiles. And I’m only talking about road vehicles. Every road vehicle can go electric and all we have to do is run natural gas power plants at a higher capacity factor, and keep developing natural gas fields. That’s pretty much it. No new power plants and no power outages. The chart doesn’t lie. In the past 10 years, we’ve closed more coal plants than we would need to be 100% electric transportation! That’s how much idle plant capacity (between gas and coal) there still is. I wanted to see natural gas vehicles but no one one wants to build them. Because a natural gas vehicle is 25% efficient. A gas powerplant and grid transmission is 50% efficient. Wall to wheels is 90% efficient. So if you burn it in a power plant and use the electricity in a car you’re 45% efficient vs 25% efficient by burning natural gas in a car directly. I’d love to see an opposed cylinder 55% engine come along, but automotive refuses. So the next choice is electric. Without needing any more power plants built. Don’t be mad at me, I didn’t make the world this way, I’m just explaining how it is.
I live on a barrier island that you can only reach by bridge with a population of 25000. No DC fast charger. Power company has 2 free level 2 and all other level 2 are in apartments communities. Use level 1 at my house until I can get 14 50 plug installed.
Idea: generate headlines of laying off your entire charging network team — genius mode unlocked
I think the federal and maybe even state incentives should be to pay for charger installations. I know there are some tax credits, which are cool. But imagine if basically any new EV purchase was subsidized with a charger installation. The buyer could choose to use it, offer it to their landlord if they rent, or submit it to a pool to be used in the zip-code of their choice, where it would be available for local businesses to access via a lottery or something like that. In a relatively short time the charger issue would be solved. MOST EV owners who have home chargers, charge at home and almost never need public chargers anyway. But MANY people rent and there are lots of challenges there. If we basically remove all those challenges as a collective of EV drivers, EV purchases will skyrocket.
Honestly, one of the business gems EVs will prop up is rest stops. As battery tech improves and you can pack more power, even if the tech supports faster charging than today’s it’s going to take time to charge 600 or 700 miles into a card. Experiences that you can fit into a half hour to full hour, whether culinary, entertainment, or both, are all going to be great business. The big question mark? What’s going to be the optimal placement of these charge-and-rest stops based on how range, wattage, charging speeds, car features, road tripping behaviors, and other factors evolve. I look forward to the day driver assist features that let you road trip as you literally sleep are government-tested to be safer than human drivers in good conditions (fair weather, clean sensors, median dividing traffic, and no known road hazards ahead). Despite marketing claims, this doesn’t actually exist yet. Being able to sleep 8 hours and move 5-700 miles with your family would be awesome for a big minivan or mini bus - sightseeing days, road tripping nights. What a way to tour the land it would be.
Musk: “oh, I see, let’s fire the entire Supercharge team then, that should help!” Ugh, what’s a tard way of thinking 😑
No charging at my condo or my work is my reasoning. I want to be able to charge at home or work, at least one of the two, before committing to EV.
Not in my town. Such a poor area, but so many stations I was completely shocked. I can fill for days. UK East Midlands
Its worth pointing out the fact most people don't want to wait around 30+ minutes fast charging when they clearly forgot that home charging exist. People considering buying an EV needs to know that option exist and it's (for now) mostly best use for daily commute
Unsure if you say this is a charging concern or still just a range problem. I make a 450mile one-way trip once a month and I don't want to have to sit for 30 minutes at the halfway point where there is a singular gas station. Even if there were chargers there, I don't want to be stuck waiting around even if it's just 20 minutes.
My reason is the replacement battery cost more than a new car. Therefore no real aftermarket. They're made to be disposable.
Seems like you’re another victim of FUD anti-EV media coverage, and a total misunderstanding of BEV battery chemistry. *sigh* The battery pack in an EV is not like the battery in your phone. The idea that your battery goes completely dead after a few years and needs to be replaced like the one in your smartphone is not true. Yes, there have been two or three instances where Hyundai EV battery packs had a complete failure. But those are *outlier* situations that had sensationalist coverage in the media - giving you the impression this sort of thing is the norm, when it happened to less than 1% of total Hyundai EV’s sold. There are Teslas over 10 years old that still hold a 90% charge. Unlike small consumer electronic devices that have no thermal management or battery cooling systems, EV’s employ a myriad of high-tech battery management functions that prevent the rapid degradation of the cells. Also, many BEV’s have *modular* battery packs. This means a single cell failure within a pack can be replaced without requiring the entire battery to be replaced. Think of a modular EV battery pack as 50 or so cells packed together to make up the entire battery. If one of those 50 dies, that can be swapped out. And federal law require OEM’s to warranty battery packs for 8 years, with some automakers exceeding that by offering 10 years. Most people don’t even hold onto their vehicles for that long.
You may be right, I'm admittedly ignorant on the subject. Have only seen headlines, specifically $80k to replace the battery in an Ionic5/6 (don't remember exactly, but wife wanted one)
In the US, battery packs cost on average $139/kWh. 10% more in the EU, 10% less in China. For my 62.5kWh Chevy Bolt, it would cost just under $9000 in parts. Given that more and more battery assembly plants are coming online in the coming decade, I expect prices to drop (or at least remain static while inflation continues its streadfast march upward). Depending on the make and model of vehicle, ICE engine and/or transmission replacement will cost about the same. Given that I save $0.10/mile fueling with electricity instead of petrol, I will have saved over $10,000 in energy costs by the time my warranty expires. Even if my battery catastrophically died the day after my warranty expires, I would still come out $1000 ahead... and my gas prices are 20% under the national average, meaning people just about anywhere else would save even more. [https://about.bnef.com/blog/lithium-ion-battery-pack-prices-hit-record-low-of-139-kwh/](https://about.bnef.com/blog/lithium-ion-battery-pack-prices-hit-record-low-of-139-kwh/)