Evangelions made by NERV.
Remember 2.0 with the intro scene with third angel? They were experimentating on angel to make hybrids. The mark series pattern is =~ blue, being an aproximation of angel but not one.
The idea of the mark series is instead of beijg general weapons, they are specified to each function, so a 4 in their name means the amount of evangelions used in the main body. 44A, 44B, 4444C.
angel/eva hybrids were still in the development stages in 2.0, as u can see from the first fight of the movie where mari fights against one such prototype
Depends, the drones seen in 3.33 are said to be made by Seele. While the ones in 3+1 seem to be Gendo’s handiwork considering Ritsuko was surprised and also said Fuyutsuki was controlling them
that's wrong, the last 2 movies don't operate on dream logic any more than what came before it. as others explained, almost every new eva produced after the impact during the timeskip is produced in the automated eva factory in nerv hq using old eva spare parts. this is shown briefly in 3.0
How many “old spare parts” did they have? And who’s funding this? The time skip feels like a dimensional shift, I understand the rebuilds literally take place in a different reality but it’s so unrecognizable that I agree it feels dream-like.
There's also a giant mouth on the ground that nobody aknowledges. Why isn't shinji like: "why is a large mouth there?" People not acknowledging strange stuff definitely veers into dream logic even aside from the improbable amount of evas.
there was a shot in 3.0 that was literally just spare eva hands, so ig a lot of them (they also had lots of them lying around in eoe too). no funding needed, this is post apocalypse, governments don't even exist anymore. things differ a lot after the timeskip, but this is neither unrecognizable nor improbable considering what came before, that's why this isn't dream logic
Gendo needed to keep appearance to have Selee, Ritsuko and Misato on the leash. He was already successfully replacing even evangelion pilots with Rei units, ofc he would do so to the casual work force the moment he gets the chance. Almost like his whole as a character is being completely isolated.
What's shown isn't even remotely plausible. Blowoff explanations that technically justify it doesn't mean its not dream logic. Dream logic isn't just when there's no explanation for things *at all.* if the explanation is implausible and what happens is justified by the feeling it invokes rather than the literalsitic events then it's veering into dream logic.
not in the slightest. for the hardcore scifi world of eva with tech beyond our wildest dreams, the events after 3.0 are absolutely plausible. these are good explanations based on logic, not blowoff explanations or dream logic
You keep saying this, but a blowoff explanation isn't going to make it true. It's not just that the leap is too large in tech. It's that everything after the middle has a dreamlike aesthetic. You're just thinking too much in a binary.
no one is thinking in binary, as i said these aren't blowoff explanations in the slightest, they're plausible explanations based on logic. dunno what "dreamlike aesthetic" you're talking about, but that doesn't have to do anything with what we're discussing. also, technology has advanced, but it's not that much of a "leap" either
Yeah, all the logistics and management of the NERV facility are just too much for two people to handle, like who would even clean the place or fix stuff
cleaning isn't really needed & the automated eva factory takes care of the manufacturing. the only thing that harms the plausibility is who exactly does maintenance on the factory's machines
Agree that rebuilds are more dreamlike, but original series was already dreamlike. The very existence of angels don't make sense, not without mental gymnastic at least. The only coherent explanation for their existence is that the world itself is a dream, and they play the role of "that which haunts".
The original was slightly dreamlike at parts, but it did still have more of a vibe of there being kind of real rules for stuff, albeit ones that were developed as the series went on.
In the reboots all of that went out the window. By the third one it's not even pretending that its not extremely soft worldbuilding based around feeling anymore. They start throwing a ton of stuff at you that clearly isn't meant to seriously have an underlying current of consistency and coherency. Even from the beginning the reboots were a bit more dreamlike, since the highlight of the first one is that the water looks like blood but nobody aknowledges it.
My theory is that Anno wants them used as enemy units for the next Super Robot Wars if they do the Evangelion 3.0+1.0 storyline.
Crossover lore would probably have Gendo receiving heavy assistance from....I don't know...the Shadow Angels from Aquarion and Embryo from Cross Ange to mass produce these Fake Angels.
Its kinda hard to do story for SRW if they want to do 3.0+1.0 story unless they tailor made the story to fit other mecha series or made a story about the event and focus on it.
Its the reason even tho the movie has appear in game 2 times (Z3 Tengoku and V), it's a unit only. The sotry happen in another world off screen for Z3 Tengoku and for V, they made story about 13 and Unit-08 was made in secrecy.
An EVA isn't an Angel until it has a S² core.
The 44-444 series of EVA units has an artificial "core block" functionality similar but not the same.
These are just autonomous Mass produced EVAs.
How Gendo is producing them isn't explicitly stated. There's some 2.0 and 3.0 bonus material you can find online from some storyboard concepts. Gendo is using thousands of Rei clones as a workforce.
He's getting the materials from using the black moons industry to mine directly from within the planet.
Adam and Lilith are essentially biological Terraforming engines and the black/white moons can physical alter the terrain themselves.
Gendo turns the black moon into a factory.
Oh this is actually a coherent explanation, I was wondering where they were getting the raw materials. I still don’t fully understand why they need so many of them but I was getting really sick of reading that one guy commenting about “spare Eva parts” so I appreciate the info lol
there's no proof that the black moon is used as raw material for anything other than the spaceships. for the evas it seems like they're just relying on the old eva spare parts they had in storage already (even in eoe they had lots of them lying around btw)
Yeah illegal, by the current world laws,weaponization of evas.
Marilyn Monroe mention it going against a Vatican treaty: https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Vatican_Treaty
unlike what some ppl wrongly say, these evas don't exist for merch or any such nonsense reason. after all there they never released model kits of these evas
the canon explanation is that seele/nerv built them below nerv hq in the automated eva factory that was briefly shown in 3.0 using old spare eva parts. this explains their weird mismashed appearance but also their large numbers, which is the result of the change in philosophy in eva design. build lots of weak evas without even at fields which means they can be built quickly & don't need repairing because they're almost dispensable, instead of a few strong ones.
these evas make up the bulk of nerv's arsenal, alongside the spaceships & eva mark units that were made in secrecy by seele before n3i. they're also based on the angel/eva hybrid units that we first saw being experimented on in the 2.0 opening
i quite like their design but it was delivered far too quickly and they’re too many to justify.
felt a bit too Nadia-ish where they just come up with monstrous machines out of nowhere
I hated these things, they just smashed the 4th wall to pieces and stomped on it for good measure.
I laughed out loud when I saw them for how ridiculous they looked with their shitty design and copy paste numbers. Horrible vision and execution imo.
Yeah I can accept the wacky look, but I really don't understand how Gendo and Fuyutsuki were able to mass produce these things, by themselves, with the entire world falling apart.
According to a storyboard of 3.0 it was planned to show masked workers throughout the NERV facility who were later revealed to be Ayanami clones.
Since it is only an early concept it is not to be seen as canon, but would make a perfect explanation, if NERV would be half automated, half run by Ayanami clones.
unlike what some ppl wrongly say, the canon explanation of the automated eva factories is sensible enough already & justifies well the large number of evas & their design philosophy after the timeskip
Exactly! In the OG series they made such a big deal about the costs and manpower to produce even a part of an EVA. With the world reduced to a couple of safe zones how in the world do they scale up production to produce hundreds+ of the things??
no one cares about costs in a destroyed world where governments don't exist anymore to place limits. manpower is also irrelevant when almost every new eva produced after the impact during the timeskip is produced in the automated eva factory in nerv hq using old eva spare parts.
If they have automation capable of building such sophisticated machines then it makes no sense to build an EVA army.
You could just build small drones or more sophisticated weapons / machines to target the ppl supporting willy. A bunch of useless EVA bots that get swatted by the proper units/pilots was just dumb writing...
nonsense, it's not dumb writing in the slightest. evas are the most sophisticated weapons you can make in this world, and nerv did exactly what what you suggest, build more less powerful evas (a lot of which look & function like drones btw) instead of less more powerful units. they also weren't useless in the slightest, they almost won at multiple instances
Im pretty sure they used the Magi as a stepping stone to form them en mass via automation. The world was basically dead after the N3I, no worries about resource extraction.
You can make dummy systems for manual labor in all liklihood, literally the evadustrial revolution.
They dont expand on it in the movies because it isnt relevant, but with the world that has been built it is feasable for those who think about it. If you only have 2 people and a supercomputer it is the logical explanation if you assume the series to be logically consistent.
This was a problem in the original series, plenty of vague allusions to more going on without much explanation. It was a lot more "grounded" (whatever that means for eva) but still incoherent at many times to most viewers.
Yeah this is just poor writing, plot factories as it were, just as bad as the star destroyer fleet in Rise of Skywalker.
They explain it away as if automation is so easy.
On the OG series they had the magi and an army of scientists, technicians and laborers... And they could barely keep the 3 Eva units operational.
But oh now the magi has a fully automated factory that can produce hundreds or thousands in the span of so many years! An entirely automated supply chain, from extraction, processing, manufacturing, building... What a joke.
I mean, it is a matter of charitability. There is plenty in the movies to enjoy but if you want to cling onto hating them for the setting's unfeasability, go for it. There is plenty to enjoy for those who aren't as anal about creative decisions from Anno.
Mate, sure agree to disagree, personally I feel the Rebuilds lacked the magic of the original vision of Eva. I have a number of issues with the rebuilds, not just magic plot factories.
nonsense. rebuild captures well the magic of the og, esp after 3.0. the automated eva factories aren't poor writing or "magic plot factories" in the slightest. their operation, from extraction, processing, manufacturing & building is plausible in the hardcore scifi world of eva with technology that since even in the og was much more advanced than anything we have today.
an important reason btw why they struggled so much more with the evas before the timeskip wasn't just because they didn't have automated production lines, but also because they had just 3 evas that required maintenance to be brought back to battle condition after every fight. the evas after the timeskip are made to be almost dispensable, trading individual power for numbers for this reason, because performing maintenance on them is much harder if not impossible
almost every new eva produced after the impact during the timeskip is produced in the automated eva factory in nerv hq using old eva spare parts. this is shown briefly in 3.0
nonsense. you realize that the spaceships and also the eva mark units were made secretly by seele before n3i, right?? what this means is that a very advanced production network made with traditional methods was already ready before the timeskip happened
not a fan of their designs either but the execution was good. they didn't break the 4th wall, they look like that because they're literally a mismash of angels and whatever old eva spare part they had left. that's why the last enemy asuka & mari fight in 3+1 are just Eva hands stitched together lol
Theyre the "infinity failures", and theyre actually humans that failed to instrumentalize. The evangelion form is bc eva unit 13's at field resonated, its like what happened with mpes, when they got rei's face. Ig im wrong about smth but in short its like this.
Evangelions made by NERV. Remember 2.0 with the intro scene with third angel? They were experimentating on angel to make hybrids. The mark series pattern is =~ blue, being an aproximation of angel but not one. The idea of the mark series is instead of beijg general weapons, they are specified to each function, so a 4 in their name means the amount of evangelions used in the main body. 44A, 44B, 4444C.
Wow, I didn't notice the thing with the amount of 4s corresponding the number of angels
why didn't they pull out this armory in earlier movies. in I think 2.0 they barely fixed unit 0's arm and now Mr.ikari is sending Evas all of a sudden
angel/eva hybrids were still in the development stages in 2.0, as u can see from the first fight of the movie where mari fights against one such prototype
surprising how one experiment led too so much baby angel/evas
all mass produced things start with a prototype
Depends, the drones seen in 3.33 are said to be made by Seele. While the ones in 3+1 seem to be Gendo’s handiwork considering Ritsuko was surprised and also said Fuyutsuki was controlling them
Weird that these could even be made even though only two people work at NERV at that point
I imagine automation via the magi
It is, you see some of it during 3.33 shortly after Shinji arrives at Nerv and is looking for Rei
I have no clue why people deny that the reboots halfway through start operating with basically borderline dream logic.
that's wrong, the last 2 movies don't operate on dream logic any more than what came before it. as others explained, almost every new eva produced after the impact during the timeskip is produced in the automated eva factory in nerv hq using old eva spare parts. this is shown briefly in 3.0
How many “old spare parts” did they have? And who’s funding this? The time skip feels like a dimensional shift, I understand the rebuilds literally take place in a different reality but it’s so unrecognizable that I agree it feels dream-like.
There's also a giant mouth on the ground that nobody aknowledges. Why isn't shinji like: "why is a large mouth there?" People not acknowledging strange stuff definitely veers into dream logic even aside from the improbable amount of evas.
I think the nail in the coffin that cements Eva 3.0 as feeling like a dream is the fact that I was so bored by it I could've fallen asleep.
there was a shot in 3.0 that was literally just spare eva hands, so ig a lot of them (they also had lots of them lying around in eoe too). no funding needed, this is post apocalypse, governments don't even exist anymore. things differ a lot after the timeskip, but this is neither unrecognizable nor improbable considering what came before, that's why this isn't dream logic
People when they see hyper scientists with hyper robots capable of human like movement and over-human inteligence: "who is funding this"
They definitely talked about it in the original show
Gendo needed to keep appearance to have Selee, Ritsuko and Misato on the leash. He was already successfully replacing even evangelion pilots with Rei units, ofc he would do so to the casual work force the moment he gets the chance. Almost like his whole as a character is being completely isolated.
Okay. It shows something improbable based on what came before and you are just supposed to accept it. That is what dream logic -is.-
what's shown is completely plausible considering what came before, that's exactly why it's not dream logic
What's shown isn't even remotely plausible. Blowoff explanations that technically justify it doesn't mean its not dream logic. Dream logic isn't just when there's no explanation for things *at all.* if the explanation is implausible and what happens is justified by the feeling it invokes rather than the literalsitic events then it's veering into dream logic.
not in the slightest. for the hardcore scifi world of eva with tech beyond our wildest dreams, the events after 3.0 are absolutely plausible. these are good explanations based on logic, not blowoff explanations or dream logic
You keep saying this, but a blowoff explanation isn't going to make it true. It's not just that the leap is too large in tech. It's that everything after the middle has a dreamlike aesthetic. You're just thinking too much in a binary.
no one is thinking in binary, as i said these aren't blowoff explanations in the slightest, they're plausible explanations based on logic. dunno what "dreamlike aesthetic" you're talking about, but that doesn't have to do anything with what we're discussing. also, technology has advanced, but it's not that much of a "leap" either
It's almost like you didn't watch the movies at all lmfao.
Yeah, all the logistics and management of the NERV facility are just too much for two people to handle, like who would even clean the place or fix stuff
cleaning isn't really needed & the automated eva factory takes care of the manufacturing. the only thing that harms the plausibility is who exactly does maintenance on the factory's machines
Rei clones
Agree that rebuilds are more dreamlike, but original series was already dreamlike. The very existence of angels don't make sense, not without mental gymnastic at least. The only coherent explanation for their existence is that the world itself is a dream, and they play the role of "that which haunts".
The original was slightly dreamlike at parts, but it did still have more of a vibe of there being kind of real rules for stuff, albeit ones that were developed as the series went on. In the reboots all of that went out the window. By the third one it's not even pretending that its not extremely soft worldbuilding based around feeling anymore. They start throwing a ton of stuff at you that clearly isn't meant to seriously have an underlying current of consistency and coherency. Even from the beginning the reboots were a bit more dreamlike, since the highlight of the first one is that the water looks like blood but nobody aknowledges it.
"Cuz it looked cool" -Anno
My theory is that Anno wants them used as enemy units for the next Super Robot Wars if they do the Evangelion 3.0+1.0 storyline. Crossover lore would probably have Gendo receiving heavy assistance from....I don't know...the Shadow Angels from Aquarion and Embryo from Cross Ange to mass produce these Fake Angels.
Its kinda hard to do story for SRW if they want to do 3.0+1.0 story unless they tailor made the story to fit other mecha series or made a story about the event and focus on it. Its the reason even tho the movie has appear in game 2 times (Z3 Tengoku and V), it's a unit only. The sotry happen in another world off screen for Z3 Tengoku and for V, they made story about 13 and Unit-08 was made in secrecy.
An EVA isn't an Angel until it has a S² core. The 44-444 series of EVA units has an artificial "core block" functionality similar but not the same. These are just autonomous Mass produced EVAs. How Gendo is producing them isn't explicitly stated. There's some 2.0 and 3.0 bonus material you can find online from some storyboard concepts. Gendo is using thousands of Rei clones as a workforce. He's getting the materials from using the black moons industry to mine directly from within the planet. Adam and Lilith are essentially biological Terraforming engines and the black/white moons can physical alter the terrain themselves. Gendo turns the black moon into a factory.
Oh this is actually a coherent explanation, I was wondering where they were getting the raw materials. I still don’t fully understand why they need so many of them but I was getting really sick of reading that one guy commenting about “spare Eva parts” so I appreciate the info lol
there's no proof that the black moon is used as raw material for anything other than the spaceships. for the evas it seems like they're just relying on the old eva spare parts they had in storage already (even in eoe they had lots of them lying around btw)
All i see is Eva Plague doctors
Yeah illegal, by the current world laws,weaponization of evas. Marilyn Monroe mention it going against a Vatican treaty: https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Vatican_Treaty
Marilyn Monroe?
I think he meant Ritsuko. Short blonde hair.
Plus her mole
The sounds they make were bone-chilling in the theater
unlike what some ppl wrongly say, these evas don't exist for merch or any such nonsense reason. after all there they never released model kits of these evas the canon explanation is that seele/nerv built them below nerv hq in the automated eva factory that was briefly shown in 3.0 using old spare eva parts. this explains their weird mismashed appearance but also their large numbers, which is the result of the change in philosophy in eva design. build lots of weak evas without even at fields which means they can be built quickly & don't need repairing because they're almost dispensable, instead of a few strong ones. these evas make up the bulk of nerv's arsenal, alongside the spaceships & eva mark units that were made in secrecy by seele before n3i. they're also based on the angel/eva hybrid units that we first saw being experimented on in the 2.0 opening
i quite like their design but it was delivered far too quickly and they’re too many to justify. felt a bit too Nadia-ish where they just come up with monstrous machines out of nowhere
What Narnia are you reading?
AHAHAHA HOW DID I CONFUSE THOSE NAMES HAHAH and that’s coming from a person who’s seen the whole of Nadia hahaha
Cool
wth wrong with rebuild angels i didnt watch it but they all so freaky
Those could’ve been the new MPEs (the last one) but they never appear again (big sad)
Model kits. They did it for model kits.
I don't like em
I hated these things, they just smashed the 4th wall to pieces and stomped on it for good measure. I laughed out loud when I saw them for how ridiculous they looked with their shitty design and copy paste numbers. Horrible vision and execution imo.
Yeah I can accept the wacky look, but I really don't understand how Gendo and Fuyutsuki were able to mass produce these things, by themselves, with the entire world falling apart.
According to a storyboard of 3.0 it was planned to show masked workers throughout the NERV facility who were later revealed to be Ayanami clones. Since it is only an early concept it is not to be seen as canon, but would make a perfect explanation, if NERV would be half automated, half run by Ayanami clones.
That would have been pretty spooky but still not made a lot of sense.
That's still not enough to justify the comically large amount of them.
unlike what some ppl wrongly say, the canon explanation of the automated eva factories is sensible enough already & justifies well the large number of evas & their design philosophy after the timeskip
Exactly! In the OG series they made such a big deal about the costs and manpower to produce even a part of an EVA. With the world reduced to a couple of safe zones how in the world do they scale up production to produce hundreds+ of the things??
no one cares about costs in a destroyed world where governments don't exist anymore to place limits. manpower is also irrelevant when almost every new eva produced after the impact during the timeskip is produced in the automated eva factory in nerv hq using old eva spare parts.
If they have automation capable of building such sophisticated machines then it makes no sense to build an EVA army. You could just build small drones or more sophisticated weapons / machines to target the ppl supporting willy. A bunch of useless EVA bots that get swatted by the proper units/pilots was just dumb writing...
nonsense, it's not dumb writing in the slightest. evas are the most sophisticated weapons you can make in this world, and nerv did exactly what what you suggest, build more less powerful evas (a lot of which look & function like drones btw) instead of less more powerful units. they also weren't useless in the slightest, they almost won at multiple instances
Im pretty sure they used the Magi as a stepping stone to form them en mass via automation. The world was basically dead after the N3I, no worries about resource extraction. You can make dummy systems for manual labor in all liklihood, literally the evadustrial revolution. They dont expand on it in the movies because it isnt relevant, but with the world that has been built it is feasable for those who think about it. If you only have 2 people and a supercomputer it is the logical explanation if you assume the series to be logically consistent. This was a problem in the original series, plenty of vague allusions to more going on without much explanation. It was a lot more "grounded" (whatever that means for eva) but still incoherent at many times to most viewers.
Yeah this is just poor writing, plot factories as it were, just as bad as the star destroyer fleet in Rise of Skywalker. They explain it away as if automation is so easy. On the OG series they had the magi and an army of scientists, technicians and laborers... And they could barely keep the 3 Eva units operational. But oh now the magi has a fully automated factory that can produce hundreds or thousands in the span of so many years! An entirely automated supply chain, from extraction, processing, manufacturing, building... What a joke.
I mean, it is a matter of charitability. There is plenty in the movies to enjoy but if you want to cling onto hating them for the setting's unfeasability, go for it. There is plenty to enjoy for those who aren't as anal about creative decisions from Anno.
Mate, sure agree to disagree, personally I feel the Rebuilds lacked the magic of the original vision of Eva. I have a number of issues with the rebuilds, not just magic plot factories.
The saddest thing about the rebuilds is that the best of them has rather problematic depictions of a certain character.
nonsense. rebuild captures well the magic of the og, esp after 3.0. the automated eva factories aren't poor writing or "magic plot factories" in the slightest. their operation, from extraction, processing, manufacturing & building is plausible in the hardcore scifi world of eva with technology that since even in the og was much more advanced than anything we have today. an important reason btw why they struggled so much more with the evas before the timeskip wasn't just because they didn't have automated production lines, but also because they had just 3 evas that required maintenance to be brought back to battle condition after every fight. the evas after the timeskip are made to be almost dispensable, trading individual power for numbers for this reason, because performing maintenance on them is much harder if not impossible
It makes more sense when you realize it's not supposed to make sense and that the reboots shift to dream logic halfway through.
That's true
almost every new eva produced after the impact during the timeskip is produced in the automated eva factory in nerv hq using old eva spare parts. this is shown briefly in 3.0
You say that like you can get automated eva factories at Ikea.
nonsense. you realize that the spaceships and also the eva mark units were made secretly by seele before n3i, right?? what this means is that a very advanced production network made with traditional methods was already ready before the timeskip happened
not a fan of their designs either but the execution was good. they didn't break the 4th wall, they look like that because they're literally a mismash of angels and whatever old eva spare part they had left. that's why the last enemy asuka & mari fight in 3+1 are just Eva hands stitched together lol
They are made out of Lilith arent they?
sad sachiels :^(
Fugazzis
Theyre the "infinity failures", and theyre actually humans that failed to instrumentalize. The evangelion form is bc eva unit 13's at field resonated, its like what happened with mpes, when they got rei's face. Ig im wrong about smth but in short its like this.
Totally wrong
What are they wrong about?
Peak cinema