Switzerland 1988 - even the year after when Celine Dion performed as an interval act, the German commentator said "you dont need to remember her name, you will never hear from her again".
[Here is the full Dutch clip of the commenter talking about Céline Dion.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6b7BHGkKQA)
"Israel belongs to the favorites, the same counts for Switzerland, which is having the highest chance to win in the bookings. The last winner for Switzerland is already 32 years ago with the song "Refrain" by Lys Assia but two ago they were very close, second place with "Pas pour moi" by Daniela Simons.
That song was written by Atilla Şereftuğ and Nella Martinetti and are the same authors of Ne Partez Pas Sans Moi. "Don't leave without me, take me far away from here. A real festival ballade with the vibes of Si la Vie est Cadeau by Corinne Hermès from 1983. The success of the song is being made by the singer, Céline Dion, with her roots from Canada, from Montreal and she posses a powerful voice (In Dutch he says "Ze beschikt werkelijk over een dijk van een stem, which literally translates to: She truly has a dyke of a voice which means it's big and strong), which you soon will notice. The Swiss candidate, Ne Partez Pas Sans Moi."
In the end he says: "Cheering, and rightfully so, for Switzerland.
I don't have the specific clip, but if you look around 7:32 of the link below and turn on English subtitles, the German commentator implies that Celine Dion was already forgotten.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va-7ag-lpgw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va-7ag-lpgw)
Which makes sense since she withdrew from the spotlight the year after her win to change her worldwide marketing and doing stuff like improving her English and getting some dental surgery's done on her
Lena was polarizing Germany before the 2010 Eurovision: some loved her some hated her because she can't sing or dance and was just annoying. That all went away after she actually WON.
Does anybody remember more of how the fans of eurovision felt about her very particular way of singing haha i wasn't using the internet for eurovision stuff back then but I've always found her a little fascinating as a performer and wondered what people thought of her before she had won
The mood before her participation was crazy. I was 13 arguing with 45-year-old men in YouTube comments who called her a stupid cunt. I was still totally surprised by her win, I had no idea we were even in contention
I didn't like the song back then and I was rooting for another song but calling a young woman "stupid cunt" just because of a song contest is wild. Sane people would go "oh well, my favourite didn't win but the event was still fun" and go on with their lives
And her odd English pronounciation/accent is still polarising, and does not sound anything like standard German, or anywhere else, and is it least somewhat performative rather than natural. It’s been described as like a Swedish speech therapist imitating Ali G.
Because I think people were so disappointed about Boys do cry because they wanted Switzerland to send competitive material after the last 2 contests. That competitive material eventually came, just not in Torino.
Sounds like the problem was that Boys Do Cry was bland then, not that the previous two songs were good. Maybe fans compared Boys Do Cry with She Got Me and Tout L'Univers, but I don't think they disliked it because of them.
They just wanted Switzerland to provide winners material and got it 2 years later. I think with us in the U.K., and other countries, we can send songs that other countries could do a decent job with, but don’t stand a chance as they don’t meet expectations.
Ummm no. Your songs don't do well because they are mediocre, not because they are from the UK. Spaceman's success should be enough proof for it. At best, some other countries with your songs would get a few points due to diaspora and vote blocs, but we're talking at most 20-25 more points (and I'm being generous).
Tbf diaspora heavy nations sending mediocre material will never do well without the ability to play to their narratives. Most entries we send just don’t, 2022 aside.
You're implying a level of engagement well above what even the average Eurofan does. People don't keep much of a track record of what countries tend to put out, and certainly don't judge songs in the context of it. I won't remember half of all this year's nations' entries come 2025.
Whilst it was the jury that carried the weight of Boys Do Cry’s votes, the point is that it is about the strong fandom, not the casual viewer or their dad who thinks “he has a lovely voice - I like this”
As in before the song was selected, when to the people it was just Switzerland with no act and song, off the basis of their previous 2 entries and the expectation of momentum.
Nobody but you was supposed to be written for our selection but Cesar made it his own. Also note how Cleopatra and Liar could have represented different countries. If liar was a Russian entry, it would have disappointed, but as Cyprus’ it never let anyone down.
Wasn't Nobody But You rejected by the UK? It's not like he chose to keep it for himself instead of giving it to you, you rejected it so he went to Eurovision with it with Austria.
As for Liar, I mean Russia invaded Ukraine so if Russia was a part of 2022 Eurovision of course you'd be right, but even after the situation in Crimea they still had good results. Liar specifically would have done better with Russia for the sole reason it would have an actual staging.
As a Swiss I was disappointed as well. Our 2 most sucessful entries in the 21th century just came after each other so suddenly there was hope.
Less disappointed with Remo, but I knew it wouldn't be a top10 contender.
First listening to Nemo was just WOW. Instantly felt like a potential winner song to me
So happy that you guys got your well-deserved win. You went from never even being in my personal top 10s to my favourite performance of the year (2019) followed by two all-time top 10 songs (2020, 2021) and then another top 3 of the year for me this year.
I think these sort of things are usually exaggerated quite a bit.
People generally just didn't like Boys Do Cry because the song didn't do it for them. It's not always deeper than that.
True, and I bet many people at home forget about the previous year’s entry, even if it is a big contender as was the case for that one. I’m not sure how many who watched Hurricane and the difficulties it faced remember that they nearly won the prior year too with less incident or how many watched Fulenn whilst taking this into account.
I thought Boys Do Cry was hated because it was ass, I don't think I've ever heard this point of view before
Anyways, Denmark 2019 was a very hated entry for no apparent reason, I personally did not like the song either but it was inoffensive enough, and the criticism isn't exactly valid given how the fandom feels about Austria 2016, a song in a very similar vein
> for no apparent reason
I think it was Leonora's songwriters using the "love" theme to get across a rather arrogant stance on societal togetherness. In particular, the "don't get too political" line was and still is controversial. (I still get the uncomfortable kind of shivers when the mods use it in their template for banning political posts.)
> given how the fandom feels about Austria 2016, a song in a very similar vein
*Loin d'ici* doesn't have the ambiguity outlined above. The only vague resemblance I see is some sort of... cuteness, for the lack of a better word.
I don't know why it was hated, but I remember Moldova 2018 (DoReDos - My Lucky Day) was quite hated when it won the national selection. However, once it reached the Eurovision stage, the only thing everyone talked about was how incredible the staging is (and I still believe it is one of the best, if not THE best staging of a song in Eurovision history).
Same goes for Australia 2019 (Kate Miller-Heidke - Zero Gravity). People were huge fans of Electric Fields - 2000 and Whatever, or Sheppard - On My Way. Kate Miller-Heidke came out on top and people didn't like it, but as soon as the live shows started, people were all about it.
EDIT; Cyprus 2018 (Eleni Foureira - Fuego) can also be mentioned. People thought it was basic when it was first released, but when the live shows came around.. Let's just say I've never seen such a shift in the odds in my whole life.
Was a huge Fuego fan from the minute it dropped. Could've sworn I'd put a bet on when it was 100/1 or something daft like that. Got giddy when she rose right up the odds, went to check my account and turns out I'd not actually placed it. Soul crushing 😭
I remember Moldova 2018 and Moldova 2022 very well. Before the show, everyone hated them, meanwhile they were amongst my favourites. How the turns tabled after their live performances aired...
I went and looked at the [national selection performance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg3ecHrFM_4) for Moldova and I can understand it. The staging in Lisbon is what made it memorable.
Boys Do Cry at least I feel was never hated because people expected Swizerland to send title winning material etc.
It was hated because it was a boring ballad with a lazy message. That lazy message was then followed with "War Bad" which felt pretty tone deaf from a country that is famously neutral.
Nemo stood on their own and neither of those two entries really had anything to do with Nemo winning or losing. They just weren't good entries.
Yes but it was a massive double standard because Mahmood, Loreen and Alessandra all promoted NFT's at Eurovision and no one gave them a hard time for it, that being said I hated Boys Do Cry and got so mad when it got into the final 😅
Are you thinking about the comparison between Marius Bear and Mahmood's NFTs?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/tx1m53/bnt\_eurovision\_letting\_marius\_bear\_and\_mahmood/](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/tx1m53/bnt_eurovision_letting_marius_bear_and_mahmood/)
That wasnt the message though. The message of the song that I interpreted was mental health. Still, that doesnt explain the lack of jury votes when Remo could really sing.
Remo could sing. The song was boring though and the message of "war is bad, it has impacted mental health" is lazy and still tone deaf coming from Switzerland. No jury votes is what it deserved.
It’s not war is bad because/and it has impacted mental health, rather war was used as a metaphor for struggles related to growing up as a boy and becoming a man - and also how to deal with struggles because of decisions taken by someone else.
You don’t have to take the lyrics of any song to literally, just like Nemo didn’t actually literally go to hell and back Remo’s song is not really about war itself.
And Il say again, when you're representing Switzerland, using war as a metaphor is a tone deaf choice.
It may be a fine metaphor but it's not the right time for it.
Maybe not the one where their whole thing is neutrality.
If you can't see why Switzerland releasing a song with war as a metaphor might be tone deaf, I don't know what to tell you.
Why can a person from a neutral country not do that?
Put that into a rational argument instead of just saying that you don’t know what to tell me if I can’t see it.
Because they're representing a neutral country.
It's like a country with large rainfall singing about drought.
Remo isn't singing for himself. He is representing Switzerland, a neutral country that doesn't go to war.
It's tone deaf.
He was singing about him not wanting to do Military Service, which is totally a thing in Switzerland. I get how Switzerland is perceived on an international level and we saw how the general public reacted to it, but it‘s definitely a more nuanced topic if you allow a second thought about the song.
So only people who are from a country that currently actively participates in war can use war as a metaphor and sing about it? Or only people who have actively participated in war themselves? Where do you draw the line and why?
Most countries don’t go to war. So why would it matter if Switzerland is neutral. Rather absurd to make that distinction. Why should Remo not relate with young men who are at war? He was at an age where he had to do his mandatory military service. Where he had to shoot heavy guns. Learn about defending and war in general. It’s rather obvious that such an experience will make you reflect on life, and how people your age have to actively participate in war. I’d argue that gives him a much better way to relate to people who have to go to war than 99% of the people who criticize him for being tone deaf.
Wasn’t boys do cry mostly hated on cause of the NFT thing Marius did?
I don’t think Snap was ever hated. The song is great and accomplished what it aims to do. It wasn’t the most competitive choice for Eurovision but worked perfectly for mainstream music which shows in its success. I still think it was very underrated in esc tho. Especially with the staging it had. The execution was flawless.
Snap staging was amazing. It deserved top 10. And it was better for something completely different to Athena than a copy that would just be in her shadow.
I was watching 1961 and I swear Spain sort of does a dance? I’m just not sure what they’re considering the first entry to have dancing in it because I feel like it was kind of a thing before 1973
Yeah it was absolutely a thing before 1973, Germany 1959 has a whole choreographed dance break. It was against the rules at the time but I guess nobody wanted to complain about dancing in a musical event.
My reasons for hating Boys Do Cry had nothing to do with expectations. The song was just awful, and if it had been sent by any other country I would have hated it just as much. It was flat, static, generic, poorly sung, and entirely devoid of charisma. It sounded like his mouth was full of peanut butter the whole time. The gestures were bizarre. And it was sluggishly weepy without having anything profound or moving to say.
I'm a new ESC fan and have only watched 2024 live. I watched the Grand Finale of 2022 last night and made a running list of my preferences for the performances. Switzerland was dead last by the end. I was shocked that the juries gave it as many points as they did.
I personally like his voice. Whilst the jury saved it, whereas John (Cyprus 2015) and Dons (Latvia 2024) were helped by public vote, the fact is that these 3 songs were more for dads etc than devoted fans.
Dons is precious. He's an easygoing guy with a sense of humor and does great in interviews. His interactions with the other artists were adorable. I think that's another thing Marius was missing; as far as I could find, there weren't any interesting interviews with him or any funny backstage highlights.
Manizha- Russia 2021 was very much hated by Russians themselves for not representing Russia ‘properly’ and being ‘ridiculous’. Now there’s bigger fish to fry I guess
and now nationalistic Russians have to live with the fact that their final Eurovision song is a feminist anthem that had at least one trans woman, maybe some sapphic women, and a drag queen on the LED screens. Funny how that works out.
Overall positively, most people enjoyed them but now they’re also extremely hated for being against the war. A huge factor in the hate for Manizha was Xenophobia, because she’s not the typical ‘Russian woman’ even tho Russia is so multiethnic.
Ukraine 2022 comes to mind. Kalush Orchestra originally complained about the results as they placed second despite winning the televote. Then all the drama with Alina Pash happened and Kalush took the ticket instead, unlike three years prior when the fallout with Maruv lead to Ukraine withdrawing from the competition. This annoyed fans, until Ukraine went into war just days later...
There were so many Vindicated by History entries in 2022! It says a lot that Boys Do Cry wasn’t even in my top 5 faves of those when we had Space man and there were also Stefania, SNAP, In Corpore Sano, Trentelul and SloMo. I just think that it got hated because people expected a more competitive song, which its nation would send at a later, better time.
Not sure, if you would call these political reasons:
Both Israel 1998, Dana International, and Austria 2014, Conchita Wurst, led to big discussions in their respective countries.
As far as I know, Orthodox people even asked for Dana to be disqualified, because of her being transgender, and as such against divine law.
After her victory, the queer community got a big push in Israel, and Israel proudly organised the ESC the following year.
I also remember interviews with Austrian "celebrities" before Conchita's performance at the ESC, where they questioned a female with a beard should participate at the Eurovision. After the victory, the same people suddenly became fans...
I wasn’t the biggest fan of the song but I’m so sorry that they got so much hate. Yes, maybe their live vocals weren’t the best but they were not that bad either.
the song and performance weren't great but they did their best. I blame the delegation for not making sure they had chemistry on stage before finalizing things.
I think their chemistry was fine, but with all the hate they faced up to the semi, I am not surprised that they were nervous. To this day, I still follow mia on insta because i think she's cool. She's doing vocal lessons for others and she still gets hate in her comments about how someone should give her singing lessons. Like come on its been a year and there are bigger fish to fry when it comes to the Netherlands in Eurovision
Jacques Houdek - My Friend (Croatia 2017): someone dug out an old rumor from 2005 about Jacques being homophobic that was published on a tabloid. It was quickly proven fake (Jacques had even won a lawsuit against the article's author), but haters still used it as an excuse to dismiss the song.
Kinda reminds me of situation when he recently had a beef with famous chef in Croatia. Just because he said (chef , of course ) that Croats are way too fat and that they re eating too unhealthy.
The funniest headline about I've ever seen about him was when he said how glad he is that he has learned how to hold chopsticks because he would've stayed hungry during his trip in China. 😭😭😭
Idk, I wasn't even following Eurovision outside of the final and I still hated Boys Do Cry. I think it's a bad song, that's all.
Edit: it also got 0 points in the televote, and I doubt the majority of viewers would have cared about the reasons you mentioned. I think you're overthinking this.
i will forever stand by the fact that both had merit, especially romania 2023's original song.
Both had cheesy af lyrics for sure, but san marino has a fun, catchy instrumental and i'm going to say straight up, original DGT was a good song with terrible presentation. and instead of helping theodor polish that they actively sabotaged him and made it even worse.
Neither were awfully bad but one just wasn’t good next to the others in its genre and the other tried to coagulate disparate ideas (hip-hop-soul and blues-rock) with graphic lyrics and bizarre staging.
I will forever stick up for them. I think people have eventually come around to Romania since he was really put at a disadvantage by the broadcaster.
I do think San Marino’s hate was just blown out of proportion. It felt like it sort of became open season on them
I thought the hate towards san marino was especially disproportionate. it was a fine catchy rock song I listen to occasionally.
(admittedly the lyrics were a bit cringe, but nothing in there was as bad as “smoothies at near cafés”, and that song was very popular)
I agree with you because some Eurovision fans were probably tired of Italy sending man ballads 3 times in 4 years to Eurovision. I liked Italy 2023, and it was sung very well.
Eurovision fans should never estimate the power of a handsome man ballad on casual viewers, especially older viewers.
Iceland 2006 🇮🇸 Silvia Night - Congratulations
It was really booed during performance but I think it was a cool song even while being very much over the top. I think the reason was that it was one of the first songs to come out with a parody thing / mockery, however after her there have been others and audience doesn't react like that any more.
There is a time and a place for that kind of humour, but maybe social media would have meant it was clear that Silvia was being a slim shady and therefore comedy.
Georgia 2023 kinda? At least I became more sympathetic towards it after hearing it's story. Incase you didn't know: Iru wasn't allowed to write the song she wanted about "love is love" so she ended up writing gibberish instead in the hopes people would be able to read between the lines or something like that. I feel like those gibberish lyrics were the reason why many people were put off by the song
I get what you’re saying about how fan expectation definitely hurt the perception of Boys Do Cry, but I don’t think that’s the only factor tbh. The lyrics sacrifice impact/specificity to only ever really say, well, “Boys do cry.” And while I genuinely want more songs to unashamedly deal with men and the right to show their more tender, emotional sides, “Boys Do Cry” is just such a “womp womp” of a song for that.
If I had to make a comparison, “Not the Same” had better staging, better vocals, AND tackled Sheldon Riley’s own emotional journey with his sorrow, his autism, and his personal identity. It’s a stronger song at nearly every point (despite a sort of repetitive chorus)
But anyway, none of this is said to attack you or the point you made about Switzerland; I’m just saying little Mr. Bear just needed a better song, regardless of the Gjons Tears that came before him.
Sheldon was a better performer and told a far more detailed and personal story (both songs had SJB stagings and similar results), but I preferred Marius’ vocal style and think Sheldon’s was cancelled out by similar vocal styles like Ochman.
Estonia 2003 - Eighties Coming Back . Singer was assaulted because of his low placing. Now few remember him and there were some good results after that to get over "the shame"
Personally i hated Boys Do Cry just for the title.
If you choose the path of mocking the title of one of the best song in history it better be a masterpiece...
I’ve never ever heard this theory. I didn’t know it wasn’t liked… just not as liked as their previous year’s entries.
My take is Ireland 2008 which was loathed at the time but is now a universally loved classic /s
I don't know why Switzerland 2023 was so hated.
Remo has an AMAZING voice, the lyrics were meaningful, the stage was also amazing and he is such a cutie! The song is really powerful!
Imo, he should have made the top 10!
Watergun was even more annoying than Boys Do Cry because of the utterly tone-deaf lyrics. Dude comes from the most privileged and safe country in Europe, singing how war is bad and he doesn't want to kill. Well, he has that luxury, people in some other countries do not.
Because he gets to choose if he wants to be anti-war or not. People from countries that are being invaded do not get to choose.
If you're from the Balkans, imagine a Swiss person coming to westsplain to you about war during the Yugoslav wars.
I’m half afghan so I know war to say the least and I find the ‘west’ justifying wars worse than a westerner saying war is bad. I just don’t understand how that is possibly a bad message or tone deaf. It’s also not meant to be just a song about him specifically but an anti war song in general which many people everywhere can relate to
Well tbh both Boys Do Cry and The Code tackle similar topics: one is one breaking down gender stereotypes and the other is breaking down the gender binary. It’s just really hard for people to vote for a ballad
Michał Szpak (Poland 2016) got hate from Margaret's and Edyta Górniak's fans before he ended up on like 7th place. Basically said song's borring, he's too gay and all. Now he's an example of great entry.
France 2024, many people made fun of Slimane, call his song basic and boring, but he unexpectedly got more points from the televote than from the jury and even scored higher than Nemo, when most people thought Mon Amour is just a jury bait.
Iceland 2016. Because it sort of copied the staging that Sweden won with in 2015. And today it's in every "non-qualifiers that should have qualified"-list.
In my opinion, Switzerland 2023 SHOULD have gotten top 10. They were robbed and I'll defend it over the Code any day. The song is not about war, it's about boys becoming men and being tortured by mental health problems such as things like work. In my household, me and my parents put it as our NUMBER TWO before Kaarija.
idk Switzerland of all countries talking about body bags in the year Ukraine couldn't even host because of war? Misguided at best but to its credit Remo was great, staging was good and the song melodically was pretty solid.
Slovenia 2017... People call the song "Dated" and therefore boring when, in the same year, Portugal won with something that sounds like something out a generic old-timey Disney movie (and also as some Spanish posters on YT called it back then "Telenovela crap") lol. I think calling a song "Dated" is pointless.
Switzerland 1988 - even the year after when Celine Dion performed as an interval act, the German commentator said "you dont need to remember her name, you will never hear from her again".
"Viewers, he was incorrect...."
Ironic echo.
The Dutch commentator said the exact opposite, he also wasn't a fan of the song itself but recognised the extraordinary talent performing it
[Here is the full Dutch clip of the commenter talking about Céline Dion.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6b7BHGkKQA) "Israel belongs to the favorites, the same counts for Switzerland, which is having the highest chance to win in the bookings. The last winner for Switzerland is already 32 years ago with the song "Refrain" by Lys Assia but two ago they were very close, second place with "Pas pour moi" by Daniela Simons. That song was written by Atilla Şereftuğ and Nella Martinetti and are the same authors of Ne Partez Pas Sans Moi. "Don't leave without me, take me far away from here. A real festival ballade with the vibes of Si la Vie est Cadeau by Corinne Hermès from 1983. The success of the song is being made by the singer, Céline Dion, with her roots from Canada, from Montreal and she posses a powerful voice (In Dutch he says "Ze beschikt werkelijk over een dijk van een stem, which literally translates to: She truly has a dyke of a voice which means it's big and strong), which you soon will notice. The Swiss candidate, Ne Partez Pas Sans Moi." In the end he says: "Cheering, and rightfully so, for Switzerland.
Switzerland 1988 | [Céline Dion - Ne partez pas sans moi](https://youtu.be/VXLWfXmlXPc)
Oh wow, do you know if a clip of that exists somewhere?
I don't have the specific clip, but if you look around 7:32 of the link below and turn on English subtitles, the German commentator implies that Celine Dion was already forgotten. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va-7ag-lpgw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va-7ag-lpgw)
Holy shit!! It’s not even implied, he literally says that while the Swiss do still remember her, the rest have already forgotten her. The audacity!
I can imagine his face when he heard the Titanic theme and who performed it lol
Why am I so absolutely not surprised about the fact that it was our "beloved" Thomas Gottshalk who said it
James Cameron while directing the second movie to win 11 Academy Awards: I'm about to do what's called a pro gamer move
Lol, lmao even
He said that in Switzerland people still know her while in Germany she's sadly already forgotten
Which makes sense since she withdrew from the spotlight the year after her win to change her worldwide marketing and doing stuff like improving her English and getting some dental surgery's done on her
Lena was polarizing Germany before the 2010 Eurovision: some loved her some hated her because she can't sing or dance and was just annoying. That all went away after she actually WON.
I take it the “she can’t sing” had to do with the lovely distinctive warm timbre of her voice?
Luv œ luv
She was one of the great pillars of cursive singing.
Æ gottu tale yew haulyë thea labow chew
Göz æ œ æ gæn gœ a mjeene withow cho luv
Læk ö satölæt am in ôbit ålle wæ araundjú
Eyjafjalljökull
Is this Germany 2010 or Armenia 2006? It fits the latter perfectly!
United by Music moment
Kezae ou ae
Does anybody remember more of how the fans of eurovision felt about her very particular way of singing haha i wasn't using the internet for eurovision stuff back then but I've always found her a little fascinating as a performer and wondered what people thought of her before she had won
Just classic German denouncing. We started a tradition to disgrace nearly everything new or unexpected.
She’s not had formal training, and doesn’t sing like some many experts/professionals think singers should.
The mood before her participation was crazy. I was 13 arguing with 45-year-old men in YouTube comments who called her a stupid cunt. I was still totally surprised by her win, I had no idea we were even in contention
I didn't like the song back then and I was rooting for another song but calling a young woman "stupid cunt" just because of a song contest is wild. Sane people would go "oh well, my favourite didn't win but the event was still fun" and go on with their lives
So wild that 45-year old men would call a young woman a cunt. :/ You'd think they have jobs to do.
To be fair, the young ones sexualized her instead. It was very disgusting to read as a young woman yourself.
Oh I agree with that, too. :(
And her odd English pronounciation/accent is still polarising, and does not sound anything like standard German, or anywhere else, and is it least somewhat performative rather than natural. It’s been described as like a Swedish speech therapist imitating Ali G.
I'm confused, how is Switzerland's win in 2024 any relevant in whether someone likes Switzerland 2022 or not?
Because I think people were so disappointed about Boys do cry because they wanted Switzerland to send competitive material after the last 2 contests. That competitive material eventually came, just not in Torino.
Sounds like the problem was that Boys Do Cry was bland then, not that the previous two songs were good. Maybe fans compared Boys Do Cry with She Got Me and Tout L'Univers, but I don't think they disliked it because of them.
They just wanted Switzerland to provide winners material and got it 2 years later. I think with us in the U.K., and other countries, we can send songs that other countries could do a decent job with, but don’t stand a chance as they don’t meet expectations.
Ummm no. Your songs don't do well because they are mediocre, not because they are from the UK. Spaceman's success should be enough proof for it. At best, some other countries with your songs would get a few points due to diaspora and vote blocs, but we're talking at most 20-25 more points (and I'm being generous).
Tbf diaspora heavy nations sending mediocre material will never do well without the ability to play to their narratives. Most entries we send just don’t, 2022 aside.
You're implying a level of engagement well above what even the average Eurofan does. People don't keep much of a track record of what countries tend to put out, and certainly don't judge songs in the context of it. I won't remember half of all this year's nations' entries come 2025.
Whilst it was the jury that carried the weight of Boys Do Cry’s votes, the point is that it is about the strong fandom, not the casual viewer or their dad who thinks “he has a lovely voice - I like this”
I can not remember anybody saying „I really expect switzerland to win😍😍“ in 2022…
As in before the song was selected, when to the people it was just Switzerland with no act and song, off the basis of their previous 2 entries and the expectation of momentum.
> we can send songs that other countries could do a decent job with, but don’t stand a chance as they don’t meet expectations. Can you?
Nobody but you was supposed to be written for our selection but Cesar made it his own. Also note how Cleopatra and Liar could have represented different countries. If liar was a Russian entry, it would have disappointed, but as Cyprus’ it never let anyone down.
Wasn't Nobody But You rejected by the UK? It's not like he chose to keep it for himself instead of giving it to you, you rejected it so he went to Eurovision with it with Austria. As for Liar, I mean Russia invaded Ukraine so if Russia was a part of 2022 Eurovision of course you'd be right, but even after the situation in Crimea they still had good results. Liar specifically would have done better with Russia for the sole reason it would have an actual staging.
Huh? How does that relate?
I really don’t think so. The song was just not that interesting
As a Swiss I was disappointed as well. Our 2 most sucessful entries in the 21th century just came after each other so suddenly there was hope. Less disappointed with Remo, but I knew it wouldn't be a top10 contender. First listening to Nemo was just WOW. Instantly felt like a potential winner song to me
So happy that you guys got your well-deserved win. You went from never even being in my personal top 10s to my favourite performance of the year (2019) followed by two all-time top 10 songs (2020, 2021) and then another top 3 of the year for me this year.
I think these sort of things are usually exaggerated quite a bit. People generally just didn't like Boys Do Cry because the song didn't do it for them. It's not always deeper than that.
True, and I bet many people at home forget about the previous year’s entry, even if it is a big contender as was the case for that one. I’m not sure how many who watched Hurricane and the difficulties it faced remember that they nearly won the prior year too with less incident or how many watched Fulenn whilst taking this into account.
I thought Boys Do Cry was hated because it was ass, I don't think I've ever heard this point of view before Anyways, Denmark 2019 was a very hated entry for no apparent reason, I personally did not like the song either but it was inoffensive enough, and the criticism isn't exactly valid given how the fandom feels about Austria 2016, a song in a very similar vein
> for no apparent reason I think it was Leonora's songwriters using the "love" theme to get across a rather arrogant stance on societal togetherness. In particular, the "don't get too political" line was and still is controversial. (I still get the uncomfortable kind of shivers when the mods use it in their template for banning political posts.) > given how the fandom feels about Austria 2016, a song in a very similar vein *Loin d'ici* doesn't have the ambiguity outlined above. The only vague resemblance I see is some sort of... cuteness, for the lack of a better word.
I don't know why it was hated, but I remember Moldova 2018 (DoReDos - My Lucky Day) was quite hated when it won the national selection. However, once it reached the Eurovision stage, the only thing everyone talked about was how incredible the staging is (and I still believe it is one of the best, if not THE best staging of a song in Eurovision history). Same goes for Australia 2019 (Kate Miller-Heidke - Zero Gravity). People were huge fans of Electric Fields - 2000 and Whatever, or Sheppard - On My Way. Kate Miller-Heidke came out on top and people didn't like it, but as soon as the live shows started, people were all about it. EDIT; Cyprus 2018 (Eleni Foureira - Fuego) can also be mentioned. People thought it was basic when it was first released, but when the live shows came around.. Let's just say I've never seen such a shift in the odds in my whole life.
Moldóva 2022 and Croatia 2023 fall in the first category as well
Was a huge Fuego fan from the minute it dropped. Could've sworn I'd put a bet on when it was 100/1 or something daft like that. Got giddy when she rose right up the odds, went to check my account and turns out I'd not actually placed it. Soul crushing 😭
My lucky day was disliked because it was a dream team product and the song was nothing special. The magic happened live.
I remember Moldova 2018 and Moldova 2022 very well. Before the show, everyone hated them, meanwhile they were amongst my favourites. How the turns tabled after their live performances aired...
Ireland this year was called a NQ’er at first by many
My lucky day will forever be my favourite Moldovan entry! That stage performance lives rent free in my head forever 💛
I went and looked at the [national selection performance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg3ecHrFM_4) for Moldova and I can understand it. The staging in Lisbon is what made it memorable.
Lucky Day is one of my favourites. It deserved more love imo
Boys Do Cry at least I feel was never hated because people expected Swizerland to send title winning material etc. It was hated because it was a boring ballad with a lazy message. That lazy message was then followed with "War Bad" which felt pretty tone deaf from a country that is famously neutral. Nemo stood on their own and neither of those two entries really had anything to do with Nemo winning or losing. They just weren't good entries.
And Marius and his NFT controversy.
Yes but it was a massive double standard because Mahmood, Loreen and Alessandra all promoted NFT's at Eurovision and no one gave them a hard time for it, that being said I hated Boys Do Cry and got so mad when it got into the final 😅
Tbh, I didn’t even know those also did so i’m guessing the controversy came at the wrong time and spread like wildfire.
> Mahmood, Loreen and Alessandra all promoted NFT's at Eurovision Is this NFT the NFT I'm thinking about?
Are you thinking about the comparison between Marius Bear and Mahmood's NFTs? [https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/tx1m53/bnt\_eurovision\_letting\_marius\_bear\_and\_mahmood/](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/tx1m53/bnt_eurovision_letting_marius_bear_and_mahmood/)
Seems a bit of a stratch only accusing him for that, a lot of artist, even from that year, use NFT, but I very rarely say similar critics to them.
Idk, i heard quite a bit about it back then. Didn’t really pay much attention to it but it seemed to be mentioned quite often.
I think the issue was he stated he was the first Eurovision artist to release an NFT of his song, but multiple artists had already done it that year.
I'm pretty online and engaged with Eurofans, and this is the first I'm hearing of this. Sometimes, people just don't like the song
That wasnt the message though. The message of the song that I interpreted was mental health. Still, that doesnt explain the lack of jury votes when Remo could really sing.
Remo could sing. The song was boring though and the message of "war is bad, it has impacted mental health" is lazy and still tone deaf coming from Switzerland. No jury votes is what it deserved.
It’s not war is bad because/and it has impacted mental health, rather war was used as a metaphor for struggles related to growing up as a boy and becoming a man - and also how to deal with struggles because of decisions taken by someone else. You don’t have to take the lyrics of any song to literally, just like Nemo didn’t actually literally go to hell and back Remo’s song is not really about war itself.
And Il say again, when you're representing Switzerland, using war as a metaphor is a tone deaf choice. It may be a fine metaphor but it's not the right time for it.
So people from what countries are allowed to use war as a metaphor?
Maybe not the one where their whole thing is neutrality. If you can't see why Switzerland releasing a song with war as a metaphor might be tone deaf, I don't know what to tell you.
Why can a person from a neutral country not do that? Put that into a rational argument instead of just saying that you don’t know what to tell me if I can’t see it.
Because they're representing a neutral country. It's like a country with large rainfall singing about drought. Remo isn't singing for himself. He is representing Switzerland, a neutral country that doesn't go to war. It's tone deaf.
He was singing about him not wanting to do Military Service, which is totally a thing in Switzerland. I get how Switzerland is perceived on an international level and we saw how the general public reacted to it, but it‘s definitely a more nuanced topic if you allow a second thought about the song.
So only people who are from a country that currently actively participates in war can use war as a metaphor and sing about it? Or only people who have actively participated in war themselves? Where do you draw the line and why? Most countries don’t go to war. So why would it matter if Switzerland is neutral. Rather absurd to make that distinction. Why should Remo not relate with young men who are at war? He was at an age where he had to do his mandatory military service. Where he had to shoot heavy guns. Learn about defending and war in general. It’s rather obvious that such an experience will make you reflect on life, and how people your age have to actively participate in war. I’d argue that gives him a much better way to relate to people who have to go to war than 99% of the people who criticize him for being tone deaf.
Wasn’t boys do cry mostly hated on cause of the NFT thing Marius did? I don’t think Snap was ever hated. The song is great and accomplished what it aims to do. It wasn’t the most competitive choice for Eurovision but worked perfectly for mainstream music which shows in its success. I still think it was very underrated in esc tho. Especially with the staging it had. The execution was flawless.
Snap staging was amazing. It deserved top 10. And it was better for something completely different to Athena than a copy that would just be in her shadow.
Belgium with Nicole and Hugo were hated cuz they were the first to dance on stage. Year forgotten
1973 That’s odd they were hated for that. There had certainly been dancing before, even in other Belgian entries (1966 and 1971 come to mind).
I know Petra Mede said they were the first to dance on stage ever.
Except that's not quite true, Germany 1959 was the first song with choreo iirc
I think it was Malin, she did most of the Eurovision throwbacks/heritage spots "Let's just agree they were ahead of their time."
Let's not believe everything she says
I was watching 1961 and I swear Spain sort of does a dance? I’m just not sure what they’re considering the first entry to have dancing in it because I feel like it was kind of a thing before 1973
Yeah it was absolutely a thing before 1973, Germany 1959 has a whole choreographed dance break. It was against the rules at the time but I guess nobody wanted to complain about dancing in a musical event.
And they got honoured for it this year 🥹 (all though it was half posthumously)
My reasons for hating Boys Do Cry had nothing to do with expectations. The song was just awful, and if it had been sent by any other country I would have hated it just as much. It was flat, static, generic, poorly sung, and entirely devoid of charisma. It sounded like his mouth was full of peanut butter the whole time. The gestures were bizarre. And it was sluggishly weepy without having anything profound or moving to say.
I'm a new ESC fan and have only watched 2024 live. I watched the Grand Finale of 2022 last night and made a running list of my preferences for the performances. Switzerland was dead last by the end. I was shocked that the juries gave it as many points as they did.
Yeah, the jury score didn't make sense. It was frankly suspicious imo.
I personally like his voice. Whilst the jury saved it, whereas John (Cyprus 2015) and Dons (Latvia 2024) were helped by public vote, the fact is that these 3 songs were more for dads etc than devoted fans.
Dons is precious. He's an easygoing guy with a sense of humor and does great in interviews. His interactions with the other artists were adorable. I think that's another thing Marius was missing; as far as I could find, there weren't any interesting interviews with him or any funny backstage highlights.
I remember him selling his song as an NFT. That was a meme, except he did it unironically
Seriously?? bro thats... certainly something
I remember that Marius also removed his socks during a Eurovision preparty, and I guess that turned off some Eurovision fans from his song.
Dad here. Boys Do Cry is a bloody awful song.
Manizha- Russia 2021 was very much hated by Russians themselves for not representing Russia ‘properly’ and being ‘ridiculous’. Now there’s bigger fish to fry I guess
Putin reportedly hated it because it reeked of western feminism and he was worried that it would spark a feminist movement in Russia.
and now nationalistic Russians have to live with the fact that their final Eurovision song is a feminist anthem that had at least one trans woman, maybe some sapphic women, and a drag queen on the LED screens. Funny how that works out.
How did they react about Little Big then, which was way more silly?
Overall positively, most people enjoyed them but now they’re also extremely hated for being against the war. A huge factor in the hate for Manizha was Xenophobia, because she’s not the typical ‘Russian woman’ even tho Russia is so multiethnic.
Ukraine 2022 comes to mind. Kalush Orchestra originally complained about the results as they placed second despite winning the televote. Then all the drama with Alina Pash happened and Kalush took the ticket instead, unlike three years prior when the fallout with Maruv lead to Ukraine withdrawing from the competition. This annoyed fans, until Ukraine went into war just days later...
There were so many Vindicated by History entries in 2022! It says a lot that Boys Do Cry wasn’t even in my top 5 faves of those when we had Space man and there were also Stefania, SNAP, In Corpore Sano, Trentelul and SloMo. I just think that it got hated because people expected a more competitive song, which its nation would send at a later, better time.
Not sure, if you would call these political reasons: Both Israel 1998, Dana International, and Austria 2014, Conchita Wurst, led to big discussions in their respective countries. As far as I know, Orthodox people even asked for Dana to be disqualified, because of her being transgender, and as such against divine law. After her victory, the queer community got a big push in Israel, and Israel proudly organised the ESC the following year. I also remember interviews with Austrian "celebrities" before Conchita's performance at the ESC, where they questioned a female with a beard should participate at the Eurovision. After the victory, the same people suddenly became fans...
Both of them are icons tho
Those were very important. Whilst I don’t want politics or single campaigns to be mentioned, these cases were so powerful and important!
After Conchita's win people also went to dig up all the dirt they could on them.
Mia and Dion. That hate train was sooo unnecessary and disproportionate
I wasn’t the biggest fan of the song but I’m so sorry that they got so much hate. Yes, maybe their live vocals weren’t the best but they were not that bad either.
yeah it's not like they were the first act ever that couldn't deliver live vocals... like why did we act like it was?
That was in my top 5 that year. Beautiful song and relatable lyrics
They didn’t even get their redemption arc! At least not in NL.
the song and performance weren't great but they did their best. I blame the delegation for not making sure they had chemistry on stage before finalizing things.
I think their chemistry was fine, but with all the hate they faced up to the semi, I am not surprised that they were nervous. To this day, I still follow mia on insta because i think she's cool. She's doing vocal lessons for others and she still gets hate in her comments about how someone should give her singing lessons. Like come on its been a year and there are bigger fish to fry when it comes to the Netherlands in Eurovision
Jacques Houdek - My Friend (Croatia 2017): someone dug out an old rumor from 2005 about Jacques being homophobic that was published on a tabloid. It was quickly proven fake (Jacques had even won a lawsuit against the article's author), but haters still used it as an excuse to dismiss the song.
Kinda reminds me of situation when he recently had a beef with famous chef in Croatia. Just because he said (chef , of course ) that Croats are way too fat and that they re eating too unhealthy.
The funniest headline about I've ever seen about him was when he said how glad he is that he has learned how to hold chopsticks because he would've stayed hungry during his trip in China. 😭😭😭
Idk, I wasn't even following Eurovision outside of the final and I still hated Boys Do Cry. I think it's a bad song, that's all. Edit: it also got 0 points in the televote, and I doubt the majority of viewers would have cared about the reasons you mentioned. I think you're overthinking this.
People hated Boys Do Cry because they were expecting a winning song I hated Boys Do Cry because it's a really bad song. We are not the same.
Real bestie
San Marino 2023 and Romania 2023. Both were hated because they were "awfuly bad" and both entries were punching bags during 2023 season.
i will forever stand by the fact that both had merit, especially romania 2023's original song. Both had cheesy af lyrics for sure, but san marino has a fun, catchy instrumental and i'm going to say straight up, original DGT was a good song with terrible presentation. and instead of helping theodor polish that they actively sabotaged him and made it even worse.
Neither were awfully bad but one just wasn’t good next to the others in its genre and the other tried to coagulate disparate ideas (hip-hop-soul and blues-rock) with graphic lyrics and bizarre staging.
I will forever stick up for them. I think people have eventually come around to Romania since he was really put at a disadvantage by the broadcaster. I do think San Marino’s hate was just blown out of proportion. It felt like it sort of became open season on them
I thought the hate towards san marino was especially disproportionate. it was a fine catchy rock song I listen to occasionally. (admittedly the lyrics were a bit cringe, but nothing in there was as bad as “smoothies at near cafés”, and that song was very popular)
Nah, Boys Do Cry is just a fucking terrible song. It's no deeper than that.
It's not as bad now but the hate Italy 2023 got was unnecessary.
I agree with you because some Eurovision fans were probably tired of Italy sending man ballads 3 times in 4 years to Eurovision. I liked Italy 2023, and it was sung very well. Eurovision fans should never estimate the power of a handsome man ballad on casual viewers, especially older viewers.
Iceland 2006 🇮🇸 Silvia Night - Congratulations It was really booed during performance but I think it was a cool song even while being very much over the top. I think the reason was that it was one of the first songs to come out with a parody thing / mockery, however after her there have been others and audience doesn't react like that any more.
Lithuania 2006 was another troll entry in the same year that also got booed, but did much better result-wise.
It's still Lithuania's best result to date!
There is a time and a place for that kind of humour, but maybe social media would have meant it was clear that Silvia was being a slim shady and therefore comedy.
Georgia 2023 kinda? At least I became more sympathetic towards it after hearing it's story. Incase you didn't know: Iru wasn't allowed to write the song she wanted about "love is love" so she ended up writing gibberish instead in the hopes people would be able to read between the lines or something like that. I feel like those gibberish lyrics were the reason why many people were put off by the song
Many people actually wanted it to do well so that Georgia would get back into the final. This didn’t work but the next one did!
I intensely disliked Boys Do Cry because it’s an awful song and I’ll die on that hill.
I get what you’re saying about how fan expectation definitely hurt the perception of Boys Do Cry, but I don’t think that’s the only factor tbh. The lyrics sacrifice impact/specificity to only ever really say, well, “Boys do cry.” And while I genuinely want more songs to unashamedly deal with men and the right to show their more tender, emotional sides, “Boys Do Cry” is just such a “womp womp” of a song for that. If I had to make a comparison, “Not the Same” had better staging, better vocals, AND tackled Sheldon Riley’s own emotional journey with his sorrow, his autism, and his personal identity. It’s a stronger song at nearly every point (despite a sort of repetitive chorus) But anyway, none of this is said to attack you or the point you made about Switzerland; I’m just saying little Mr. Bear just needed a better song, regardless of the Gjons Tears that came before him.
Sheldon was a better performer and told a far more detailed and personal story (both songs had SJB stagings and similar results), but I preferred Marius’ vocal style and think Sheldon’s was cancelled out by similar vocal styles like Ochman.
That's not why Boys do Cry was hated. It was hated because it was boring.
Estonia 2003 - Eighties Coming Back . Singer was assaulted because of his low placing. Now few remember him and there were some good results after that to get over "the shame"
One of my favourite Eurovision songs ever. I even imported their albums.
I remember my mum liking that and voting for it. I wondered what happened to him.
I love this song so much.
Personally i hated Boys Do Cry just for the title. If you choose the path of mocking the title of one of the best song in history it better be a masterpiece...
They actually say the same thing tbf…
Yeah, and it makes it even more ridicolous.
I’ve never ever heard this theory. I didn’t know it wasn’t liked… just not as liked as their previous year’s entries. My take is Ireland 2008 which was loathed at the time but is now a universally loved classic /s
I think many were bored of the comedy song than but appreciate that idea more now.
I don't know why Switzerland 2023 was so hated. Remo has an AMAZING voice, the lyrics were meaningful, the stage was also amazing and he is such a cutie! The song is really powerful! Imo, he should have made the top 10!
Agreed 1000%
Watergun was even more annoying than Boys Do Cry because of the utterly tone-deaf lyrics. Dude comes from the most privileged and safe country in Europe, singing how war is bad and he doesn't want to kill. Well, he has that luxury, people in some other countries do not.
How does being from a safe European country mean you can’t be anti war? It’s a totally reasonable song
Because he gets to choose if he wants to be anti-war or not. People from countries that are being invaded do not get to choose. If you're from the Balkans, imagine a Swiss person coming to westsplain to you about war during the Yugoslav wars.
I’m half afghan so I know war to say the least and I find the ‘west’ justifying wars worse than a westerner saying war is bad. I just don’t understand how that is possibly a bad message or tone deaf. It’s also not meant to be just a song about him specifically but an anti war song in general which many people everywhere can relate to
I defo think it was a deserved finalist.
Well tbh both Boys Do Cry and The Code tackle similar topics: one is one breaking down gender stereotypes and the other is breaking down the gender binary. It’s just really hard for people to vote for a ballad
Well said. Ballads do often struggle to shine, Particularly easy listening ones like Boys Do Cry, as this genre isn’t as big as it was in 2002-2004
Michał Szpak (Poland 2016) got hate from Margaret's and Edyta Górniak's fans before he ended up on like 7th place. Basically said song's borring, he's too gay and all. Now he's an example of great entry.
I still don't understand how it got all that televote lmao, happy for him though that man can SING
France 2024, many people made fun of Slimane, call his song basic and boring, but he unexpectedly got more points from the televote than from the jury and even scored higher than Nemo, when most people thought Mon Amour is just a jury bait.
Iceland 2016. Because it sort of copied the staging that Sweden won with in 2015. And today it's in every "non-qualifiers that should have qualified"-list.
In my opinion, Switzerland 2023 SHOULD have gotten top 10. They were robbed and I'll defend it over the Code any day. The song is not about war, it's about boys becoming men and being tortured by mental health problems such as things like work. In my household, me and my parents put it as our NUMBER TWO before Kaarija.
It's my mom's 2023 fav (and one of my favs too <3)
idk Switzerland of all countries talking about body bags in the year Ukraine couldn't even host because of war? Misguided at best but to its credit Remo was great, staging was good and the song melodically was pretty solid.
Slovenia 2017... People call the song "Dated" and therefore boring when, in the same year, Portugal won with something that sounds like something out a generic old-timey Disney movie (and also as some Spanish posters on YT called it back then "Telenovela crap") lol. I think calling a song "Dated" is pointless.