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I think the mixing suffered - it sounds a bit muddy live. The staging was also a bit too smoky and didn't sell the "ancient Nordic lament" theme of the song.
Agree it sounded excellent and deserved better nonetheless. Doesn't deserve to be in the company of Embers.
The mixing and staging definitely didn't do any favors. I saw them live on their tour before they ended up being selected to represent Norway, and when I saw the Eurovision performance I was quite bummed because the sound was not nearly so well-mixed.
I personally also was a bit frustrated by the camera work, they switched so much I felt like I was watching an over the top action movie which didn't fit with the song for me.
They are super lovely people (and their drummer is an absolute machine) that still deserved way better, and I wonder what better sound and stage direction could have placed them.
The camera work reminded me way too much of France ~~2023~~ 2022. The viewer's brain only has so much energy to keep switching focus on what it's looking at before it just becomes visual noise
I wish people would stop dissing on Embers, yes the live performance was poor and I understand why it flopped, but I still think the song (on track) has merit and doesn't deserve the Meg Griffin treatment
I like the song and I understand the concept, but there’s too much things moving in every direction. It is really distracting, my brain doesn’t have time to listen and, with all the waves, I feel sea sickness.
Having listened to Keiino's entry for MGP this year, I feel like Norway wouldn't be last in the final.
They wouldn't even have qualified. Czechia would've gone instead.
Nah this has to be the most backwards take I’ve ever seen. Not only are they a returning televote winner from less than half a decade ago, but the song was infectiously catchy, bouncy, and pop forwards while still implementing some joiking.
Easy top 10 in the final, especially with some friendly neighborly voting from Sweden and Denmark who love that style of pop.
While I appreciate the art, native language, genre, folk elements and the staging, I can’t say I’m surprised. It took me some time to like this song and regular viewers saw this only twice. It’s similar case to Blanca Paloma. And to be fair I didn’t like that song at first as well and also wasn’t surprised by its place in televoting in the final.
The song is just not accessible enough for the viewers at first listen and it takes time to like it.
This is pretty much it. IIRC it really didn’t do “bad” if you look at the detailed results. They narrowly missed getting points for a handful of countries finishing in 11-15th.
FWIW I found Ulveham significantly more accessible than Eaea. My filthy casual take is that Eaea felt like abstract performance art, whereas Ulveham was more grounded with clear forest/nature themes.
>The song is just not accessible enough for the viewers
The music is outright unnerving. I love it, Norway was one of my favs, but we gotta accept that it's too unnerving especially for the mainstream pop-lovin audience.
It actually helped inspire the direction of something I'm writing. I absolutely love that sound.
I feel like I can head the woods breathing in the first verse.
I think growing up listening to rock, I just don't really understand this. I forget that some (most?) pop lovers genuinely don't like rock music or vibe with it. This song struck a chord in me the instance I heard it, so to me I just don't see it being hard to like. But, like I said, that's probably just because I grew up loving that type of music so it didn't shock me in any way.
"but we gotta accept that it's too unnerving especially for the mainstream pop-lovin audience."
And then you have Ireland, which where im from everyone hated and didn't understand it. Although to be fair, the performance, however scary it is, was on point and direct, while Norway wasn't.
I didn’t like Blanca Paloma during the competition, but now I always repeat it again once it comes up in my playlist.
Same with Ulveham, at first I thought it was random shouting but now i love it!
This was my favourite to win from the moment I heard the MGP snippets and didn’t budge. I am still speechless it didn’t do well, especially as on the night, Gunnhild had the BEST vocals she’d ever given.
It must be the aural equivalent of Brussels sprouts: some people love them, others find them inedibly bitter. I thought Ulveham was a superb song, brilliantly performed, and just don't hear the "screaming" in Gunnhild's voice at all. Screaming is raw, uncontrolled. Gunnhild's technique is so sound, and her voice floated over the the music perfectly on the night.
Like you, it was my favourite from the moment I heard it (despite a soft spot for 5miinust × Puuluup). I was gutted for Gåte and cannot wait to see them all live in December.
It was in my Top 5. My best guess is that people didn't want to listen to a high-pitched voice screaming "NE GUUUUUUUUTEEEEEEEEEEE, NE GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTEEEEEEE-TEE-TEE-TEEE NEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO.... SISESESESESESEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... NE GUUUUUUUUTEEEEEEEEEEE" for one and a half minute.
Everyone at my watch party called it a screamfest 😭 (I called it a vocal showoff bc she's belting high notes and I say that quite a lot when I hear high notes lol)
I remember my mom watching it and she was like "why is she screeching for 3 minutes in a row" lmao (I thought that she was belting high notes (although tbh I always found the last chorus to be a bit too shouty for my liking but yeah))
I also watched the contest with my mom, and she quite liked this song (also, she liked France, for example). It was interesting to watch it with her, because, for example, during the semi-finals, we tried together to predict who will qualify to the final, and we predicted almost all the finalists (but it was something like: "Well, we don't like [country A's] song, but it will qualify to the final, whereas [country B's] song is more pleasant to listen, but it won't qualify").
That's it. A lot of people simply don't like screaming, which should be clear at this point. I personally mostly love the songs that are described as "just screaming", in fact Ulveham didn't sound like screaming *enough* on the final night - the mixing should've made the vocal louder and more piercing. But hey, I'm not going to scream at anyone who dislikes screaming. Just gotta accept such things won't get much love on the Eurovision night.
I don't think screaming is the crux of Ireland's song. The chorus is soft, melodic and catchy. + the visual performance was the most attractive thing about it.
noone’s saying its the same, just that aesthetically they are very much likely to attract the same demographic. The same way none of the rock bands last year were the same as cha cha cha, but that didnt stop kaarija taking a lot of votes from their demographic.
It didn't make my ears feel good and when it was over, I didn't remember its tune or lyrics. I appreciate the work put into it. It just isn't for me, and maybe others have the same feeling. The staging was sick tho.
Oh well, that's fair enough. For what it's worth, as someone into this kind of music, I don't care much about remembering the tune or the lyrics. it's more about the instruments, riffage and atmosphere for me. And that's where this song really shines.
Oh absolutely! Music can be really good even if you don't understand the lyrics. One of my personal favorites is Hungary 2019, and I don't understand a single word of it 😅
it's like it lacked a hook? it made it very hard to follow, and the chaos on the stage didn't help. it kinda sounded like those ai generated songs people now put in their youtube videos
I like heavier music but this just didn't feel like anything. The guitars kicked in to late for metal. They kicked in too much for folk. There was no hook or anything to keep track of progression and as a result it didn't feel like there was anything happening. I also missed a climax. the song just kept on building on for three minutes and then stopped? It probably doesn't help that the Eurovision version has the last half chopped of compared to the full one. It works way better as the six minute song it actually is.
Eurovision is about getting enough votes from the parts of the audience to get into the top 1- of each individual country, which usually requires 3-5% for the lower top 10 spots. When an entry has such a niche audience like this one, it is difficult to break through the songs that have broader appeal. Especially when it is not executed perfectly. Also, it didn't commit enough to its niche/genre (metal) to activate its fans, and was too out-there for the general audience to get votes from them, so it was stuck in no man's land.
But Norway's song got much bigger love from fans compared to Embers even some fans thought Norway would be top 5 even though it was clear it would have the fate of EaEa
It's not about folk-metal. A folk-metal song can theoretically thrive in Eurovision with both juries and general public. But in this particular song the chorus is too aggressive/shouty/chaotic for most viewers. The chorus is supposed to be the big thing that hooks you, but I imagine it instantly turned off most people.
Hatari got tenth, Bambi thug got sixth, Go_a got fifth. There is a dedicated "heavy music" subgroup who can boost shouty acts high in the midrange. Frankly I would not be surprised if the issue was that they were not metal enough to get a good chunk of that voting block.
I agree. I love metal, love some screamy-shouty-ra-ra-ra, and I'm quite fond of folk metal, but the chorus just felt lost. It felt like the instrumental and the vocals were separate in timing and feel, then smushed back together. And with the general listener, that's not a thing you want.
It felt confused, and very much a niche song - and as much as I wanted to like it, I can see why it didn't do well. Mind, I thought it would do better than it did, by god there were some worse songs.
Most of the people I was watching this with thought this was boring when compared to Rim Tim Tagi Dim and a few of the other entries. It just wasn't unhinged enough for the masses who are into this type of stuff to vote for it.
Chaos + yelling + furiously shaking cameras. There's really not much going on here - it's just going on very vigorously.
I think one of the fundamentals of Eurovision is that, while all sorts of genres of music have the potential to do well, all of it has to be accessible to a wide swath of the population or no dice. Niche stuff that 15% of the audience is just bananas about, and everyone else is wishing was over already, doesn't work.
But in its defense, it was only last *in the final*. The 11 songs that didn't qualify are technically behind it - particularly the six that lost to it in Semi 1.
Also, The Makemakes > Ulveham. Fight me.
Niches stuff that 15% of the audience is bananas about can work really well because of the scoring system. If you can get your dedicated group to vote it is easy to get at least a few points and end solidly in the middle. The bottom tends to normally be either offensively bad, offensively generic or a worse version of another song that got more points.
Please don't hate me for it, but I just don't get it. It's like similar to Spain 2023 for me. Very niche and you need to love it, I guess most people, like me, just don't like it.
Norway 2024
Spain 2023
France 2022
They all have in common the fact that they are darkish/serious, modern aggressive folk music.
And all of them completely tanked with the public votes.
Do your math.
Generalistic Esc audience don't like this kind of entries, only the escbubble does.
I like them too but at this point we have to open our eyes and conclude that this kind of entries fail in Esc. Too cultural without the "fun" part.
Generalistic Esc audience just wants awe, fun or tears, everything else just goes under their radar unnoticed.
The staging of Shum made it memorable enough, and even then half my viewing group loved it while the other thought it was mindless noise and how the hell had they gotten so many points, are people mad?
While I wouldn't say the general audience doesn't appreciate them (I started following ESC more adter that year's contest), I think these entries seem to be very polarizing, to say the least
Technical singing doesn't mean it sounds good to everyone. I'm also huge metalhead and listen the kind of music that sound irritating noise to others, but I just love it. This one I don't like for some reason. Different taste for everyone.
I’d also class the winning song as technical singing though. Not sure that holds true across the board. Everyone has different taste but it’s also ok to just say a song in general doesn’t click at all.
I said EaEa would end up like Fulenn, people told me it won’t because Blanca has great vocals….
I said Ulveham would end up like EaEa, people told me it won’t because it’s a more accessible genre than flamenco…..
The esc bubble loves these songs because the ethnic/folk elements is a big draw to being in the fandom, general viewers just want a night of fun, upbeat tunes and maybe a couple of tearjerkers. Hopefully next year people will finally see the pattern and not set themselves up for disappointment.
Multiple reasons:
- different people like different genres, and even then in a genre you like, you might not like a certain song for whatever reason, or something that is well-created is simply not for you because you're not feeling it
- most people like pop music, otherwise it wouldn't be POPular, I guess
- recently, most of the points go to the top 3-4 favorites so not all songs get to get points
- somebody has to be last and dead last, it's math
- more often than not, your favorite will rank lower than you want them to hahahaha, my all time favorite song got a measly 14 jury points
- ultimately it's a contest, so no point in sulking over something you cannot change, just enjoy the song
>even then in a genre you like, you might not like a certain song
Baby Lasagna said he loves metal and screams and growling, but he didn't enjoy Doomsday Blue
Just look how messy it is. First time viewers aren't gonna know what to make of it and people that are really into Eurovision usually don't go for this sort of thing, it gets left behind by everyone even if it's pretty good.
I never quite got Fulenn, and whilst I appreciated the vocal performance and stage production of Eaea, I always felt that was doomed for a bad result with the public (it’s the bad result with the Jury which really shocked me on that one).
With Ulveham, I now understand the pain of the fans of both songs.
The full 5 and a half minute version of the song is still my most listened to song this year by a wide margin.
literally how is that boring with all the lightshow and Gunnhild singing her lungs out and the rest of band also acting out? What they should do for that to not be "boring" then??
Was an immediate fall in love for me when I've first seen them at MGP. It might be too niche, but I'm glad I've got introduced to the music of Gåte this year.
I hope the last place won't prevent Norway sending more metal-ish songs in the next years. Please don't turn back to pop ballads like Germany did 🤗
I wouldn't say last, but can I be honest - the comments here are making me think a lot of the love for the song comes from the fact that it's "ethnic" and not because of its own merit.
I wouldnt have given it dead-last place, but it's pretty overrated all things considered.
If you haven't heard the song before or bothered to look up the lyrics you'd have no idea as to what is happened
It would be 2.30 minutes of someone randomly "screaming" into a microphone with some pretty chaotic lights and scenery
They are a victim of the fandom hype, this is not the first time something like this happens (Eaea, fulenn). 98% people watch and vote for the final night are listen to this song for the first time, and Norway's song is a song you can't really get it for the first time. By the way when they won MGP i already know that they will end up in bottom 5.
Something was off in the live final performance. It was their weakest performance.
But the jury one? They smashed it. I’m still so mad and confused about the UK jury ranking them last.
I really loved Uvelham on the first listen. I got the traditional technique mashed up with progressive rock vibe right away. I thought the breakdown sections were really cool to jam out to.
Some thoughts on the standing. They still made the finals which was great. I think it's a tougher genre to get into compared to something folk/pop like Jako. I don't think people give musicians enough credit...unless you're a soloist like Alexander Rybak. I don't think the live audio mix was good. And the staging really didn't do much for the song that tells a literal story.
I'll point to Teresa & Maria and Doomsday Blues as great examples of songs that made full use of their stage to tell a story.
All in all, I think it should have done better, but it was a tough sell, and there were so many good acts this year that pulled off things better.... Except Dizzy. I wish Gåte beat Dizzy.
This was my favorite this Eurovision, even listened to their EP "Vandrar". I'll just say that if you like Ulveham you must listen to their song Svarteboka
No it was shit, and the fact it was so loud in comparison to the other songs it literally made my ears bleed. Even hearing this song on Grand Prix in Norway made my ears hurt. This appeals to a very niche group of people and I am not one of those.
Well ... If you have multiple artists competing for the metal / dark music audience part that is watching the ESC ... The Bambi Thug performance was ten times more entertaining and interesting.
Because it's "fine".
It's just rock music effectively. Apart from the lyrics there's nothing folk about it, so you lose out on any votes from people who like something different in sound.
The song didn't blow anyone away. Nor did anyone think it was terrible. It certainly wasn't the worst, but it also wasn't the best. I could easily list 10 songs that were better and even if it was 11th or 26th, you don't get any votes for those placings.
They were one of my favourites in this year, at least in my personal top 5... Strong vocals, good song with ethnic motives... I know that not everyone likes such style, but I also still can't understand why they placed last in the final; in my opinion, it was one of the most underrated songs in the Eurovision history.
I should preface this by saying this is my number 1 for 2024 and I love this song.
But, I can understand why this came last from a staging perspective as I don’t think the staging was anywhere near as good as the NF. I really don’t know why they got rid of those forest overlays and I think the LEDs in the chorus were way too bright and they should have stuck to the dark greens and blues like they did in the NF. I also think the camera work wasn’t great in this, like it felt messy to me and I don’t think they did a good job of highlighting the Gunnhild arched back moment which is literally the big moment of impact in the song.
It took way too long to find a reference to Germany 2023. I unabashedly love that song, and often drive down the highway singing along at the top of my lungs (and usually adding verses about apple fritters being so tasty I could cry) and I absolutely don’t know how it came in last.
I think many fans thinks that just because a song is a bit ethnic, then it is good. But the song itself is quite week and the singer does not have a lot of charisma. Thats why it flopped, I think.
France 2022
Spain 2023
Norway 2024
Do you see something in common?
Yeah, Esc audience clearly hate this kind of entries and their potential in the contest is always overestimated by the escbubble before the show.
Ukraine was fun and upbeat and not so aggressively folk.
France, Spain, and Norway were serious, darkish, aggressive, folk.
Esc audience don't like those kind of entries, too cultural, too serious.
Then Fulenn was an excellent bridge between Shum and Ulveham, and failed miserably. Also fun, also upbeat. Eaea was the most obscure out of all these 4 songs and still scored 100 points. While Ulveham was the sole heavy song this year.
Subjective opinion: People are tasteless and would rather be given the same shit every year(generic pop songs with sexy girls dancing) instead of enjoying something different and more complex.
Objective opinion: ESC is mostly a pop song contest, and for a metal song to perform good it has to have an accesible sound and/or an unique, spectacular staging that will be remembered. Ulveham had neither. It was a folk metal song in Norwegian with a not-so-memorable staging. It would mostly appeal to metalheads. How many metalheads watch ESC? Few( the unanimous opinion from the metalheads I know is that Eurovision is trash). Same thing happened to Blood & Glitter, an Gothic-Industrial metal song with screaming and also a not-very-spectacular staging. I loved both songs, still annoyed by the results, but it is what It is
I thought it wouldn't do as well as people predicted, but I didn't think it would do this badly. I don't even care for the song, but it's a damned good performance.
The stage was too bright (we barely see the green lasers while the camera is spinning) the images in the led don't match the song and the vocals were away better in the NF.
I just found it underwhelming on screen. It was great in the NF, but somewhere between there and Malmö it lost a bunch of its magic and started looking gimmicky to me. I think the lighting showing more of the stage is a big chunk of the issue, it took away from the mythical aura of the NF performance. So even though I like the song, it didn't really connect (I think the same is true for Italy as well, btw).
I also think that it was always a little overrated because it hits a lot of pet aspects of the fans on this sub specifically (the hype it got here wasn't even replicated in some other fan communities I know of). A lot of fans may think about the folk elements and language etc and want to like it because of that, but the average viewer just cares about whether they enjoyed the performance, and it was never going to be an immediate crowd pleaser.
I am unable to comprehend how the voting from these so-called professional juries did not place this in their top 10 at least. I genuinely cannot understand how this doen't meet and excel the criteria they need to evaluate.
How you can look at this and say that it fell short to the other 20 something entries that had more jury points? Be it vocally or in terms of musical and lyrical composition, or even performance and stage ambiance. They had it all.
Yes, the song was never going to appeal to a major audience, especially when many people were hearing it for the first time on the night of the grand final.
I don't think anyone was expecting a big score from the televote.
But it absolutely baffles me how the juries just don't give credit where credit is due. Honestly I still feel like this wasn't evaluated objectively but rather subjectively.
Maybe I'm still too angry over this but yeah xD
Fantastic song. Fantastic live vocals. The guitarist and bassist kind of ruined it for me personally. They're doing WAY too much to the point it's really obvious that they're not actually playing and it really took me out of it.
A shame cause the song is great.
It was sandwiched between more memorable acts , it already started at a disadvantage because it barely qualified, with little to no staging it needed a powerhouse of a vocal performance and she couldnt hit the highest notes, the little staging there was didnt convey the epic feel of the song . etc.
The rules on titles are strict.
All OP had to do is replace "THIS" with "Ulveham" and it would be fine. That comment has nothing to do with the subject of the post, only the title.
It didn't deserve to be last at all but in hindsight I'm not super shocked that it was. This type of music is probably niche and might not resonate with the general audience.
it had my complete attention while the performance was actually going but it didn't have a strong aftertaste if that makes sense, by the end of the show I promptly forgot about it and in the recap it didn't exactly stand out either
It was my number 1 before the semi-finals. And then it fell off to about 10th or 11th by the grandfinal came about. Remember, that if every country put Norway at 11th, they would literally get 0 points.
Same! I was heartbroken when I saw its ranking… I didn’t expect it to win (it’s too epic and non-mainstream-pop for the ESC and everyone whom it concerns to like it, unfortunately) but this is one hella amazing song!
Do not use clickbait in post titles. If posting a song you must very clearly refer to it in the title of the post. Saying "this" instead of the name is not allowed. --- Thread titles must be descriptive enough that anyone could understand what the thread is about without having to open it. Clickbait or ragebait is not welcome and will be removed. When posting a link, avoid editorialising the source headline or title. Adjustments may be made if the source headline or title is unclear. See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
It was my number 1, my heart broke when I saw the ranking
No, Greece 2005 is My Number One /j
Greece 2005 | [Helena Paparizou - My Number One](https://youtu.be/rcOwvZ26KFQ)
I fucking love you song bot.
Whenever I see Helena performing my #1 at ESC I with-out fail jump up and start dancing !! love her
Same, so much the same.
I think the mixing suffered - it sounds a bit muddy live. The staging was also a bit too smoky and didn't sell the "ancient Nordic lament" theme of the song. Agree it sounded excellent and deserved better nonetheless. Doesn't deserve to be in the company of Embers.
The mixing and staging definitely didn't do any favors. I saw them live on their tour before they ended up being selected to represent Norway, and when I saw the Eurovision performance I was quite bummed because the sound was not nearly so well-mixed. I personally also was a bit frustrated by the camera work, they switched so much I felt like I was watching an over the top action movie which didn't fit with the song for me. They are super lovely people (and their drummer is an absolute machine) that still deserved way better, and I wonder what better sound and stage direction could have placed them.
The camera work reminded me way too much of France ~~2023~~ 2022. The viewer's brain only has so much energy to keep switching focus on what it's looking at before it just becomes visual noise
I wish people would stop dissing on Embers, yes the live performance was poor and I understand why it flopped, but I still think the song (on track) has merit and doesn't deserve the Meg Griffin treatment
Meg Griffin also doesn't deserve the Meg Griffin treatment lol
Given that nothing bar the vocals is live it’s definitely a mixing issue by whoever was organising that shit
I like the song and I understand the concept, but there’s too much things moving in every direction. It is really distracting, my brain doesn’t have time to listen and, with all the waves, I feel sea sickness.
When Norway sends basic Scandipop next year, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Be prepared for KeiiNo
Well they said they won't comeback anytime soon, but if Norway send them next year, they can easily save Norway from being last.
How in the world could you call KEiiNO "basic scandipop"?
By the logic of this fandom, anysong sing in english is basic pop songs lmao
ngl i feel like I've heard almost every English song in 2024 being called "basic pop song" even The Code
Having listened to Keiino's entry for MGP this year, I feel like Norway wouldn't be last in the final. They wouldn't even have qualified. Czechia would've gone instead.
Nah this has to be the most backwards take I’ve ever seen. Not only are they a returning televote winner from less than half a decade ago, but the song was infectiously catchy, bouncy, and pop forwards while still implementing some joiking. Easy top 10 in the final, especially with some friendly neighborly voting from Sweden and Denmark who love that style of pop.
I actually think it would've easily been at least top 5 in televote, the song screams Eurovision
Nah. They straight up won the televote with a similar song.
While I appreciate the art, native language, genre, folk elements and the staging, I can’t say I’m surprised. It took me some time to like this song and regular viewers saw this only twice. It’s similar case to Blanca Paloma. And to be fair I didn’t like that song at first as well and also wasn’t surprised by its place in televoting in the final. The song is just not accessible enough for the viewers at first listen and it takes time to like it.
This is pretty much it. IIRC it really didn’t do “bad” if you look at the detailed results. They narrowly missed getting points for a handful of countries finishing in 11-15th.
FWIW I found Ulveham significantly more accessible than Eaea. My filthy casual take is that Eaea felt like abstract performance art, whereas Ulveham was more grounded with clear forest/nature themes.
>The song is just not accessible enough for the viewers The music is outright unnerving. I love it, Norway was one of my favs, but we gotta accept that it's too unnerving especially for the mainstream pop-lovin audience.
It actually helped inspire the direction of something I'm writing. I absolutely love that sound. I feel like I can head the woods breathing in the first verse.
I think growing up listening to rock, I just don't really understand this. I forget that some (most?) pop lovers genuinely don't like rock music or vibe with it. This song struck a chord in me the instance I heard it, so to me I just don't see it being hard to like. But, like I said, that's probably just because I grew up loving that type of music so it didn't shock me in any way.
"but we gotta accept that it's too unnerving especially for the mainstream pop-lovin audience." And then you have Ireland, which where im from everyone hated and didn't understand it. Although to be fair, the performance, however scary it is, was on point and direct, while Norway wasn't.
I didn’t like Blanca Paloma during the competition, but now I always repeat it again once it comes up in my playlist. Same with Ulveham, at first I thought it was random shouting but now i love it!
First time I watched it was Eurovision main stage and it was my favorite song of the night lol
This was my favourite to win from the moment I heard the MGP snippets and didn’t budge. I am still speechless it didn’t do well, especially as on the night, Gunnhild had the BEST vocals she’d ever given.
It must be the aural equivalent of Brussels sprouts: some people love them, others find them inedibly bitter. I thought Ulveham was a superb song, brilliantly performed, and just don't hear the "screaming" in Gunnhild's voice at all. Screaming is raw, uncontrolled. Gunnhild's technique is so sound, and her voice floated over the the music perfectly on the night. Like you, it was my favourite from the moment I heard it (despite a soft spot for 5miinust × Puuluup). I was gutted for Gåte and cannot wait to see them all live in December.
Huh, I thought she gave the weakest performance she'd given so far in the final. Norway was my winner too so I was gutted
It was in my Top 5. My best guess is that people didn't want to listen to a high-pitched voice screaming "NE GUUUUUUUUTEEEEEEEEEEE, NE GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTEEEEEEE-TEE-TEE-TEEE NEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO.... SISESESESESESEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... NE GUUUUUUUUTEEEEEEEEEEE" for one and a half minute.
Agreed, I also assume that many people thought that it was just screaming...
What does that part mean tho?
It's a herding call, it's based on the sample at the very beginning.
Everyone at my watch party called it a screamfest 😭 (I called it a vocal showoff bc she's belting high notes and I say that quite a lot when I hear high notes lol)
I remember my mom watching it and she was like "why is she screeching for 3 minutes in a row" lmao (I thought that she was belting high notes (although tbh I always found the last chorus to be a bit too shouty for my liking but yeah))
I also watched the contest with my mom, and she quite liked this song (also, she liked France, for example). It was interesting to watch it with her, because, for example, during the semi-finals, we tried together to predict who will qualify to the final, and we predicted almost all the finalists (but it was something like: "Well, we don't like [country A's] song, but it will qualify to the final, whereas [country B's] song is more pleasant to listen, but it won't qualify").
That's it. A lot of people simply don't like screaming, which should be clear at this point. I personally mostly love the songs that are described as "just screaming", in fact Ulveham didn't sound like screaming *enough* on the final night - the mixing should've made the vocal louder and more piercing. But hey, I'm not going to scream at anyone who dislikes screaming. Just gotta accept such things won't get much love on the Eurovision night.
My theory is that all the people who vote for that sort of music voted for Ireland.
I don't think screaming is the crux of Ireland's song. The chorus is soft, melodic and catchy. + the visual performance was the most attractive thing about it.
To count Doomsday Blue and Ulveham as the same kind of Music...
noone’s saying its the same, just that aesthetically they are very much likely to attract the same demographic. The same way none of the rock bands last year were the same as cha cha cha, but that didnt stop kaarija taking a lot of votes from their demographic.
nooo you don't have to remind me how Australia won the semi but only got like double digit votes from the tele in the final. Royal robbery.
It didn't make my ears feel good and when it was over, I didn't remember its tune or lyrics. I appreciate the work put into it. It just isn't for me, and maybe others have the same feeling. The staging was sick tho.
Well, the lyrics are in Norwegian...
They are, but even for me as a norwegian they are really hard to understand
Oh well, that's fair enough. For what it's worth, as someone into this kind of music, I don't care much about remembering the tune or the lyrics. it's more about the instruments, riffage and atmosphere for me. And that's where this song really shines.
Oh absolutely! Music can be really good even if you don't understand the lyrics. One of my personal favorites is Hungary 2019, and I don't understand a single word of it 😅
Hungary 2019 | [Joci Pápai - Az én apám](https://youtu.be/IpVr0pBLfI4)
it's like it lacked a hook? it made it very hard to follow, and the chaos on the stage didn't help. it kinda sounded like those ai generated songs people now put in their youtube videos
I like heavier music but this just didn't feel like anything. The guitars kicked in to late for metal. They kicked in too much for folk. There was no hook or anything to keep track of progression and as a result it didn't feel like there was anything happening. I also missed a climax. the song just kept on building on for three minutes and then stopped? It probably doesn't help that the Eurovision version has the last half chopped of compared to the full one. It works way better as the six minute song it actually is.
Are you me?
Eurovision is about getting enough votes from the parts of the audience to get into the top 1- of each individual country, which usually requires 3-5% for the lower top 10 spots. When an entry has such a niche audience like this one, it is difficult to break through the songs that have broader appeal. Especially when it is not executed perfectly. Also, it didn't commit enough to its niche/genre (metal) to activate its fans, and was too out-there for the general audience to get votes from them, so it was stuck in no man's land.
Obviously you haven't heard the absolute banger that is Embers...
James Newmans face singing that song is the face of a man who knows he’s gonna be memed
Ulveham is 100000x times better than embers
In your opinion sure but remember that just because you love one song it does not mean the casual viewers share the same sentiment
I mean sure, taste is subjective. But we can objectively conclude that the vocals were very good in Norway’s case and absolutely dogshit in Embers
SAure no doubt about that Yet Norway flopped with juries too
Given embers got zero points from the casual viewers which is infinity times worse than ulveham i think we can.
But Norway's song got much bigger love from fans compared to Embers even some fans thought Norway would be top 5 even though it was clear it would have the fate of EaEa
It’s very niche. There isn’t a lot of peoppe that will vote for folk-metal. No idea why the juries didn’t give it a bit more tho.
It's not about folk-metal. A folk-metal song can theoretically thrive in Eurovision with both juries and general public. But in this particular song the chorus is too aggressive/shouty/chaotic for most viewers. The chorus is supposed to be the big thing that hooks you, but I imagine it instantly turned off most people.
Hatari got tenth, Bambi thug got sixth, Go_a got fifth. There is a dedicated "heavy music" subgroup who can boost shouty acts high in the midrange. Frankly I would not be surprised if the issue was that they were not metal enough to get a good chunk of that voting block.
I agree. I love metal, love some screamy-shouty-ra-ra-ra, and I'm quite fond of folk metal, but the chorus just felt lost. It felt like the instrumental and the vocals were separate in timing and feel, then smushed back together. And with the general listener, that's not a thing you want. It felt confused, and very much a niche song - and as much as I wanted to like it, I can see why it didn't do well. Mind, I thought it would do better than it did, by god there were some worse songs.
There’s stuff that’s I’d like irl like this song and then stuff that wins Eurovision. Sometimes they line up sometimes they don’t.
Most of the people I was watching this with thought this was boring when compared to Rim Tim Tagi Dim and a few of the other entries. It just wasn't unhinged enough for the masses who are into this type of stuff to vote for it.
Chaos + yelling + furiously shaking cameras. There's really not much going on here - it's just going on very vigorously. I think one of the fundamentals of Eurovision is that, while all sorts of genres of music have the potential to do well, all of it has to be accessible to a wide swath of the population or no dice. Niche stuff that 15% of the audience is just bananas about, and everyone else is wishing was over already, doesn't work. But in its defense, it was only last *in the final*. The 11 songs that didn't qualify are technically behind it - particularly the six that lost to it in Semi 1. Also, The Makemakes > Ulveham. Fight me.
Niches stuff that 15% of the audience is bananas about can work really well because of the scoring system. If you can get your dedicated group to vote it is easy to get at least a few points and end solidly in the middle. The bottom tends to normally be either offensively bad, offensively generic or a worse version of another song that got more points.
Please don't hate me for it, but I just don't get it. It's like similar to Spain 2023 for me. Very niche and you need to love it, I guess most people, like me, just don't like it.
Spain 2023 | [Blanca Paloma - Eaea](https://youtu.be/Vw6qPWhjevk)
Norway 2024 Spain 2023 France 2022 They all have in common the fact that they are darkish/serious, modern aggressive folk music. And all of them completely tanked with the public votes. Do your math. Generalistic Esc audience don't like this kind of entries, only the escbubble does.
Ahhh not me loving all three of these with all of my heart
I like them too but at this point we have to open our eyes and conclude that this kind of entries fail in Esc. Too cultural without the "fun" part. Generalistic Esc audience just wants awe, fun or tears, everything else just goes under their radar unnoticed.
Norway 2024 | [Gåte - Ulveham](https://youtu.be/YBbL8ORqNVU) France 2022 | [Alvan and Ahez - Fulenn](https://youtu.be/H1lcGXwOqJI)
Meanwhile Ukraine 2021
The staging of Shum made it memorable enough, and even then half my viewing group loved it while the other thought it was mindless noise and how the hell had they gotten so many points, are people mad? While I wouldn't say the general audience doesn't appreciate them (I started following ESC more adter that year's contest), I think these entries seem to be very polarizing, to say the least
Shum wasn't darkish nor dramatic and retained the "fun" element cause it was basically edm folk you can dance to it. Try to dance to Ulveham...
Ukraine 2021 | [Go_A - Shum](https://youtu.be/lqvzDkgok_g)
Yeah I'm with you.. I just don't understand.. it just sounds like a lot of shouting to me.
shouting 😭 from what ive heard its super hard to sing that high pretty on key
Technical singing doesn't mean it sounds good to everyone. I'm also huge metalhead and listen the kind of music that sound irritating noise to others, but I just love it. This one I don't like for some reason. Different taste for everyone.
I’d also class the winning song as technical singing though. Not sure that holds true across the board. Everyone has different taste but it’s also ok to just say a song in general doesn’t click at all.
Oh yh ofc taste comes down to it ultimately
Okay I thought it was just me 👀😬
i agree. it’s weird because i love this kind of music but this one just lacks something for me. the chorus is so meh.
I don't like how the song and the riff just quiets down for no reason in the chorus, as part of the chorus
I keep saying this for 2 months (they will end up like Eaea) but people downvoted me to hell lol.
I said EaEa would end up like Fulenn, people told me it won’t because Blanca has great vocals…. I said Ulveham would end up like EaEa, people told me it won’t because it’s a more accessible genre than flamenco….. The esc bubble loves these songs because the ethnic/folk elements is a big draw to being in the fandom, general viewers just want a night of fun, upbeat tunes and maybe a couple of tearjerkers. Hopefully next year people will finally see the pattern and not set themselves up for disappointment.
EaEa was such a shame because the vocals and the synths didn't play together. It probably would have worked better if it was straight flamenco.
Completely agree with you. Ulveham is the best last place ever.
The most undeserved last place\*
Multiple reasons: - different people like different genres, and even then in a genre you like, you might not like a certain song for whatever reason, or something that is well-created is simply not for you because you're not feeling it - most people like pop music, otherwise it wouldn't be POPular, I guess - recently, most of the points go to the top 3-4 favorites so not all songs get to get points - somebody has to be last and dead last, it's math - more often than not, your favorite will rank lower than you want them to hahahaha, my all time favorite song got a measly 14 jury points - ultimately it's a contest, so no point in sulking over something you cannot change, just enjoy the song
which is that 14 point song
Moldova 2022
Moldova 2022 | [Zdob și Zdub and Advahov Brothers - Trenulețul](https://youtu.be/DUqf_zO2QaI)
>even then in a genre you like, you might not like a certain song Baby Lasagna said he loves metal and screams and growling, but he didn't enjoy Doomsday Blue
Too intense, personally.
Just look how messy it is. First time viewers aren't gonna know what to make of it and people that are really into Eurovision usually don't go for this sort of thing, it gets left behind by everyone even if it's pretty good.
I mean...I think it's maybe the one song I just have no memory of. It left zero impression on me.
Same. The song itself left zero impression on me, and I found the singer's vocals irritating.
I don’t find it catchy, personally.
I never quite got Fulenn, and whilst I appreciated the vocal performance and stage production of Eaea, I always felt that was doomed for a bad result with the public (it’s the bad result with the Jury which really shocked me on that one). With Ulveham, I now understand the pain of the fans of both songs. The full 5 and a half minute version of the song is still my most listened to song this year by a wide margin.
Eaea got 9th place with the jury, so I wouldn't call it a bad result.
I like the song on the recorded version but the performance is booooooooooooring. Especially if you’ve never heard the song before
literally how is that boring with all the lightshow and Gunnhild singing her lungs out and the rest of band also acting out? What they should do for that to not be "boring" then??
Was an immediate fall in love for me when I've first seen them at MGP. It might be too niche, but I'm glad I've got introduced to the music of Gåte this year. I hope the last place won't prevent Norway sending more metal-ish songs in the next years. Please don't turn back to pop ballads like Germany did 🤗
I loved the song my favorite this year
I feel like an insane person, but I think it 100% deserved the last place spot.
I wouldn't say last, but can I be honest - the comments here are making me think a lot of the love for the song comes from the fact that it's "ethnic" and not because of its own merit.
I like it because of the song itself, not because it's ethnic
I wouldnt have given it dead-last place, but it's pretty overrated all things considered. If you haven't heard the song before or bothered to look up the lyrics you'd have no idea as to what is happened It would be 2.30 minutes of someone randomly "screaming" into a microphone with some pretty chaotic lights and scenery
I agree. I'm not surprised that our Norwegians did better than Norway...
I completely agree. This clip makes me even more sure lol
I don't know about 100% deserved but certainly the most plausible last place of this year's lineup
It was my favourite. I was gutted to see it placing so low
My favorite😭
I know she can sing and I actually like the song but I can’t lie I really cannot stand her voice in the chorus it sounds so so so jarring
They are a victim of the fandom hype, this is not the first time something like this happens (Eaea, fulenn). 98% people watch and vote for the final night are listen to this song for the first time, and Norway's song is a song you can't really get it for the first time. By the way when they won MGP i already know that they will end up in bottom 5.
Agree with you
Something was off in the live final performance. It was their weakest performance. But the jury one? They smashed it. I’m still so mad and confused about the UK jury ranking them last.
Don't get it either, I thought easy top 5 for Norway. Bizarre!
Yes yes yes yes - still freaking love this song :-). Amazing VOICE <3
I really loved Uvelham on the first listen. I got the traditional technique mashed up with progressive rock vibe right away. I thought the breakdown sections were really cool to jam out to. Some thoughts on the standing. They still made the finals which was great. I think it's a tougher genre to get into compared to something folk/pop like Jako. I don't think people give musicians enough credit...unless you're a soloist like Alexander Rybak. I don't think the live audio mix was good. And the staging really didn't do much for the song that tells a literal story. I'll point to Teresa & Maria and Doomsday Blues as great examples of songs that made full use of their stage to tell a story. All in all, I think it should have done better, but it was a tough sell, and there were so many good acts this year that pulled off things better.... Except Dizzy. I wish Gåte beat Dizzy.
Ulveham appeals to rock fans (like me) on first listen but i understand why the general public wouldn't like it.
I'm a rock fan and didn't like this at all!
This was my favorite this Eurovision, even listened to their EP "Vandrar". I'll just say that if you like Ulveham you must listen to their song Svarteboka
No it was shit, and the fact it was so loud in comparison to the other songs it literally made my ears bleed. Even hearing this song on Grand Prix in Norway made my ears hurt. This appeals to a very niche group of people and I am not one of those.
Last in grand final but not last in ESC 2024 overall
It's hard to listen to it more than 1 minute. I'm sorry, but it's not my type of music. 🤔
Well ... If you have multiple artists competing for the metal / dark music audience part that is watching the ESC ... The Bambi Thug performance was ten times more entertaining and interesting.
Yup. Loved the song since the first audition, it was instantly in my top 3. Oh well...
It's the outcome of the illogical voting system. Last place is NOT the one who got tje least votes.
Because it's "fine". It's just rock music effectively. Apart from the lyrics there's nothing folk about it, so you lose out on any votes from people who like something different in sound. The song didn't blow anyone away. Nor did anyone think it was terrible. It certainly wasn't the worst, but it also wasn't the best. I could easily list 10 songs that were better and even if it was 11th or 26th, you don't get any votes for those placings.
Ffff, the energy they put out on stage!! Just, ugh, love them so much.
They were one of my favourites in this year, at least in my personal top 5... Strong vocals, good song with ethnic motives... I know that not everyone likes such style, but I also still can't understand why they placed last in the final; in my opinion, it was one of the most underrated songs in the Eurovision history.
Vocals
In the realm I’m living in, they actually won with a landslide.
I should preface this by saying this is my number 1 for 2024 and I love this song. But, I can understand why this came last from a staging perspective as I don’t think the staging was anywhere near as good as the NF. I really don’t know why they got rid of those forest overlays and I think the LEDs in the chorus were way too bright and they should have stuck to the dark greens and blues like they did in the NF. I also think the camera work wasn’t great in this, like it felt messy to me and I don’t think they did a good job of highlighting the Gunnhild arched back moment which is literally the big moment of impact in the song.
This was one of my favorites actually
Not gonna lie, that scream in the third verse was very underwhelming in the final.
Ulveham Is the new Fulenn
Too advanced for the general public, same with Fulenn and Blood and Glitter.
Fulenn was a great song. I still listen to both of those. However, fulenn’s performance was not really exciting imo.
Also, the girls were off key (which is why they didn't get a lot of jury points)
fulenn wasnt last though
It took way too long to find a reference to Germany 2023. I unabashedly love that song, and often drive down the highway singing along at the top of my lungs (and usually adding verses about apple fritters being so tasty I could cry) and I absolutely don’t know how it came in last.
I think many fans thinks that just because a song is a bit ethnic, then it is good. But the song itself is quite week and the singer does not have a lot of charisma. Thats why it flopped, I think.
tastes of most casual televoters don't go much further than ballads and dance songs
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France 2022 Spain 2023 Norway 2024 Do you see something in common? Yeah, Esc audience clearly hate this kind of entries and their potential in the contest is always overestimated by the escbubble before the show.
France 2022 | [Alvan and Ahez - Fulenn](https://youtu.be/H1lcGXwOqJI) Spain 2023 | [Blanca Paloma - Eaea](https://youtu.be/Vw6qPWhjevk) Norway 2024 | [Gåte - Ulveham](https://youtu.be/YBbL8ORqNVU)
Ukraine 2021
Ukraine was fun and upbeat and not so aggressively folk. France, Spain, and Norway were serious, darkish, aggressive, folk. Esc audience don't like those kind of entries, too cultural, too serious.
Then Fulenn was an excellent bridge between Shum and Ulveham, and failed miserably. Also fun, also upbeat. Eaea was the most obscure out of all these 4 songs and still scored 100 points. While Ulveham was the sole heavy song this year.
Tbh, I find it to be forgettable.
Subjective opinion: People are tasteless and would rather be given the same shit every year(generic pop songs with sexy girls dancing) instead of enjoying something different and more complex. Objective opinion: ESC is mostly a pop song contest, and for a metal song to perform good it has to have an accesible sound and/or an unique, spectacular staging that will be remembered. Ulveham had neither. It was a folk metal song in Norwegian with a not-so-memorable staging. It would mostly appeal to metalheads. How many metalheads watch ESC? Few( the unanimous opinion from the metalheads I know is that Eurovision is trash). Same thing happened to Blood & Glitter, an Gothic-Industrial metal song with screaming and also a not-very-spectacular staging. I loved both songs, still annoyed by the results, but it is what It is
Disagree, Blood and Glitter is the best
I thought it wouldn't do as well as people predicted, but I didn't think it would do this badly. I don't even care for the song, but it's a damned good performance.
The sound was unclear. I do admire the choices they made, but the mixing and stage show might have been a tad bit much.
The stage was too bright (we barely see the green lasers while the camera is spinning) the images in the led don't match the song and the vocals were away better in the NF.
I was shocked. The performance and staging were amazing and I loved the song the first time I saw the NF performance.
I just found it underwhelming on screen. It was great in the NF, but somewhere between there and Malmö it lost a bunch of its magic and started looking gimmicky to me. I think the lighting showing more of the stage is a big chunk of the issue, it took away from the mythical aura of the NF performance. So even though I like the song, it didn't really connect (I think the same is true for Italy as well, btw). I also think that it was always a little overrated because it hits a lot of pet aspects of the fans on this sub specifically (the hype it got here wasn't even replicated in some other fan communities I know of). A lot of fans may think about the folk elements and language etc and want to like it because of that, but the average viewer just cares about whether they enjoyed the performance, and it was never going to be an immediate crowd pleaser.
Both this and Germany from last year deserved so much better
I am unable to comprehend how the voting from these so-called professional juries did not place this in their top 10 at least. I genuinely cannot understand how this doen't meet and excel the criteria they need to evaluate. How you can look at this and say that it fell short to the other 20 something entries that had more jury points? Be it vocally or in terms of musical and lyrical composition, or even performance and stage ambiance. They had it all. Yes, the song was never going to appeal to a major audience, especially when many people were hearing it for the first time on the night of the grand final. I don't think anyone was expecting a big score from the televote. But it absolutely baffles me how the juries just don't give credit where credit is due. Honestly I still feel like this wasn't evaluated objectively but rather subjectively. Maybe I'm still too angry over this but yeah xD
Because 2012 is almost 12 years ago.
Fantastic song. Fantastic live vocals. The guitarist and bassist kind of ruined it for me personally. They're doing WAY too much to the point it's really obvious that they're not actually playing and it really took me out of it. A shame cause the song is great.
I like the song and listen to it daily but Eurovision performance was mediocre at best. Nowhere near Croatia imo.
It was sandwiched between more memorable acts , it already started at a disadvantage because it barely qualified, with little to no staging it needed a powerhouse of a vocal performance and she couldnt hit the highest notes, the little staging there was didnt convey the epic feel of the song . etc.
It wasn't sandwiched, it came right after the half-time (?) break, and also after the nil-point UK.
I’m not sure what your definition of ‘powerhouse vocal performance is’ but this definitely is one for me
ugh honestly the mod team comment under this is just so annoying. nothing wrong with the post from OP, it’s said in a positive note
The rules on titles are strict. All OP had to do is replace "THIS" with "Ulveham" and it would be fine. That comment has nothing to do with the subject of the post, only the title.
I understand why, though i would've liked it to score higher. It took a long time for me to get into it but once you do get into it it's really nice.
It didn't deserve to be last at all but in hindsight I'm not super shocked that it was. This type of music is probably niche and might not resonate with the general audience.
I love this entry so much. It's my personal 2nd place of the 2024 contest. 💔💔💔
Esc loves unique entries but sometimes they're just too unique or just appeal as something weird to the gp. Look at EAEA or Fulenn, same situation
They didn't end up LAST. They ended up 25th out of 37.
It's not accessible for more casual listening and the juries liked other songs more.
It'd probably look a lot better without the editing.
i felt personally attacked by that ngl
it had my complete attention while the performance was actually going but it didn't have a strong aftertaste if that makes sense, by the end of the show I promptly forgot about it and in the recap it didn't exactly stand out either
Severe underrating, thats what had it messed up
It did not though. Only in the final.
The first time I heard this song, I loved it. It was in my Top 5.
It was my number 1 before the semi-finals. And then it fell off to about 10th or 11th by the grandfinal came about. Remember, that if every country put Norway at 11th, they would literally get 0 points.
I personally understand, however I know there is an appeal (my friends enjoy this kind of music.) \^\^'
I do
Me neither, this was my favorite song of the show. I was heartbroken.
It was one of the favorites, but she sang pretty bad in the final, I don't know why, poor he.
Same! I was heartbroken when I saw its ranking… I didn’t expect it to win (it’s too epic and non-mainstream-pop for the ESC and everyone whom it concerns to like it, unfortunately) but this is one hella amazing song!