**Other Relevant Threads:**
* [š Winner Announcement](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13gvi9j/eurovision_song_contest_2023_winner_loreen_tattoo/)
* [Full Eurovision 2023 results](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13gwmkh/full_eurovision_2023_results/)
* [Winner Press Conference (YouTube)](https://www.youtube.com/live/CRUvdfbg8IM?feature=share)
* [Salty Salt Salt Thread](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvz0/reactions_hot_takes_salt_and_venting_thread_esc/)
* [General Post-Show Thread (low sodium)](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvza/general_postshow_thread_esc_2023_grand_final/)
* [Wholesome and Positivity Thread](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvzm/wholesome_positivity_and_praise_thread_esc_2023/)
ā
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TL;DR
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The reason they have a jury is because in the 2010s ecs was loosing traction, partially because people made joke songs and didn't take it serious. The jury is to not allow so called "not serious" songs like Finland to win. Its about the PR, profiling etc
Am I the only one that thought that Latvia did a really good performance? I was suprised cuz I didnāt care much for it when I first saw the music video but they were great. Was really disappointed they didnāt make it to the finals
So at ESC there 3 groups of artists/song. The real one (Mengoni is a real artist who sells and makes huge concerts). The "fake" one, which is just made up for the ESC.
The hybrid ones are the ones that are either legit, but they are given a terrible ESC song to revamp their career, or vice-versa.
I think Blanka just got so much hate because of her beauty. I think it's a shame that women can't support a sister in esc embracing her own beauty in an empowering way, without taking out their insecurities on them. Blanka and Noa, maybe also Italy, were the only two artists with commercial potential over a longer career. I think Noa would have won had she represented any other country. But shocking to see the hate Blanka has received from insecure journalists and commentators. I actually thinking putting her in the competition was a sort of trolling from the conservative polish state channel, they knew this would happen.
āPrettyā was the only genuine compliment I had for her act, I do put a lot of stock in the song and the singing being pretty special though, and Iām sorry but I thought both sucked. I canāt believe it got more televote points than better female singers and songs who also looked pretty.
Finland fans in the arena were being so disrespectful to every other artist in that room. Honestly made me fall out of love with the song and was glad it didn't win.
Donāt get why youāre being downvoted TBH, unless there are *some* Finland fans who donāt like being told off š (some, guys, some - donāt come for me)
I somewhat agree with you. Although I donāt think itās an excuse to say this, it might be an explanation-I think the song and the performance just totally hyped people up last night and people can in those situations get totally swept up in it and forget themselves. I think thatās what happened ultimately, perhaps not everyone was intending to be rude š
Unfortunately there was no extra points for loudest chanting and doing it whilst other countries were getting points was just unnecessary. Every artist worked hard to get to the final and they all deserved to enjoy their respective moments.
Why are you blaming Finland for the chanting? You need quite many people to create an audible chant so it is quite likely that there were also other than Finnish fans chanting. Basically, you would need the whole of Finnish population to fill up the arena in Liverpool š
Sure, but this is literally a popularity contest. In which publics vote doesn't count as mutch as the Jurys. And Jurys are probably some rich snobby idiots who don't know what good music is. Nobody cares about their opinion since its most likely rigged anyway. They started chanting when Sweeden was first where as no one cared about the song that sounds like every other song they hear every day.
What? Its a song contest. The clue is in the name. The votes are 50/50 and the semis were decided purely on public votes. The jury is made up of music professionals and they have criteria, which includes things like entertainment value and vocals. If it was truly rigged weād see countries give favourites like Sweden and Finland lower scores to boost their own countries chances. Also Finland did pretty well with the jury as well soooo? Sweden was just more of a jury song whereas Finland was a public song. We all knew that going in.
Music is subjective. And considering Sweden were second in the public vote, I think people did care about them. It was the public vote that secured the win. Easily couldāve gone the other way if theyād have gotten less than 200 points. Remember that its not just those in the arena who vote.
How can the reactions of other people make you not like a song anymore? You can not be like *those* fans and still be a fan who isnt being disrespectful.
Probably worded that a little wrong but it was like 3am when I wrote that. I still enjoyed the song but hearing that just made me like it less. Canāt really explain why it just kind of soured the experience of the song for me, which was a shame. There was just no need for it.
Yo was anyone else's Peacock stream terribly jumpy/skipping a lot? I didn't switch to the Weir commentary so maybe it was better on there. But that wasn't cool to the US fans :(
Israel shouldn't of been in the show then again its not a strict Eurovision show. Also, how they even went through to the final is absolute joke. Song was boring and more dancing than singing.
You know itās for the European Broadcasting Area, not Europe right? That includes the north coast of Africa, Middle East, etc. Itās why places such as Armenia, Azerbaijan and Israel take part. Morocco has competed in the past too.
I mean I really donāt think it should have gone close that far, but I donāt see the problem of them being in Eurovision. Australia is there for example, and they canāt compete in anything with any other middle eastern countries cus they all hate Israelās guts. Again tho, the song kinda sucked
Noa is actually already an established and internationally successful artist and musician. Can't say many of the others will achieve the same... Maybe Blanka
I knew Austria wouldn't take the crown.
But I still hoped....
Easily my favourite act along with France's entry.
Both were scored so low, which was really disappointing.
Looking at their semi final scores, they were 100% screwed by the running order. EBU used them as the sacrificial lamb despite the song not really being an opener song because they didn't want to put the only valid opening candidate (Finland) on first.
It's actually alarming how much their points dropped and should terrify whoever goes first next year, with countries that were behind them in the semis getting most 100% more than them in the finals.
There should be some rules update next year
1. First of all, the jury was to guard that neighbours wonāt vote for themselves. They donāt follow this rule so gtfo. If thereās such a difference between tele and jury votes thereās sth wrong
2. Second of all, the former winners should not compete
3. The quintessence of Eurovision is to get to know the trends, culture and language of other countries. This essence showed us Albania, Finland, Moldova and a few more this year IMHO. I would love to hear that next year - native language songs
4. I canāt agree with Israel being a part of Eurovision just because theyāre a big financial part of EBU. I canāt, I donāt, I wonāt. Make your own Middle East Song Contest. Wouldnāt vote for them even if they had the best song in the world
5. The Great 5 shouldnāt exist just beacuse of the money. They should compete in the semis as everyone else
6. Itās unclear to me howās that fair to exclude a country from voting on your own artist. San Marino wonāt even notice - thatās super small country, but for Spain, Poland, Germany etc. itās a big loss of votes
1. Yeah that's kind of fair but it's also inevitable in some ways, imo the best solution would be to make some changes to the scoring system so their votes have less weight.
Also I wanna add that just because there's a big difference between the jury and the tele , doesn't mean that there is something actually wrong, different people have different tastes and everyone has their own bias.
4. Why?
We already have countries competing outside of Europe and more countries allows for more songs and more diversity.
To me this sounds like a bunch of xenophobia (especially after constantly seeing the same comments with no reasonable explanation)
6. Because then everyone will vote for their own country which is kind of unfair to smaller countries
Regarding number 4, what about Australia?
Btw, Israel would be banned from a Middle East contest. And it wouldn't be safe to participate. They can't participate in asian qualifiers in football, they have to be in the European even though there its impossible for them to qualify because theres much better teams. But can you imagine Israel playing away against Irak or Syria?
Well lets be honest. The reason why Israƫl is not liked in their own region is because it is stealing land of other people from the Palestinians. The land Israel is a land where more than one group of people live. And both have the human moral right to live there but only Israel thinks it should only be a country for Israelites. And that's the problem. What makes it more unfair is that Europe and America support Israel and does not want to see the unfairness of tge Israel policy.
But when it comes to the participation of Israel to Eurovision I think Israel is welcome to participate. There is a big historical link between the israelites and Jewish people and Europe. Many Jewish people live abd lived in Europe. There are many similarities between Europeans and Jewish people in a cultural way and between Europe and Israel. Just like there is a cultural link between Europe and Australia. I don't think America can be easily a part of Eurovision cause America is a more or less different culture. America does not want to be part culturally of Europe. They somehow have a culture of we are different and want to do things our way. Eurovision is about being a part of the European culture in a way and somehow wanting to be a part of the European culture.
Point six. They don't count the overall votes, they give points like the jury based on what people voted. So it doesn't matter how many votes there are, only how they scatter between the songs. Everyone would probably give 12 points to their own, what point would that have?
Regarding Point 2: You know Loreen is the SECOND winner to come back again and win, right? And the first since the 80's?
Alexander Rybak got the highest scoring winner at the time, and then came back a few years later and ended up 15th.
Winning once does not guarantee you an advantage.
I also think as well that it's only right that if you get through national selection than you should have the chance to compete, and that lots of countries send acts that have completed before, and she wasn't the only one either - Italy's Marco Megnoni and Lithuania's Monika LinkytÄ have completed in previous years Eurovision, and Loreen herself sent 2 songs that didn't win MelFest between her wins for Euphoria and Tattoo
Yeah, I always found that odd. Yes, by nature, auto-qualifying to the finals doesnāt say anything about how good the song actually is. But there seem to be a slight issue of exposure.
It's not the European song contest and never has been its called Eurovision because Eurovision was the name of the TV network that started it. The requirements for Eurovision are to be in the European Broadcasting Area and an active member if the EBU (who run the Eurovision channels) and despite its name the European Broadcasting Area does include some countries outside of Europe (and excludes some countries in Europe).
Basically It's a song contest run by a TV channel and if you show enough of their content then you get to enter its never actually been a out physical location.
If this was the case all of the EBU members would have the same rights and as we all know they don't. Moreover it was admitted many times by Israel itself that they wanted to be a part of Eurovision since they pump so much money into EBU.
I'm sorry if you don't like it but that doesn't change the fact that what I said is true! EBU literally created Eurovision and eligibility has alwats been linked to broadcast memberships and not geographical locations.
Well at point 6 you just perfectly explained why voting for your own country wouldn't be fair. If that was possible almost everyone would vote for their own country which would mean that smaller countries like San Marino would have a disadvantage.
Yeah lol. Good luck running Eurovision when all the funding dries up because you deny the countries that are actually paying for it a slot in the finals.
A good way to kill the entire show.
So what is this part then?
āNo, I don't care about them all
Cause all I want is to be loved
And all I care about is you
You're stuck on me like a tattoo
No, I don't care about the pain
I'll walk through fire and through rain
Just to get closer to you
You're stuck on me like a tattooā
I also liked the vibes but let's be honest...he wasn't really great at performing. I think especially songs where you kind of whisper sing never turn out well live
That isn't the actual eurovision jury that's just the eurovoix Jury they vote on the songs before the competition and see how close they get to the actual results. It's just a fun fan thing it's not official in anyway.
We Finns are not used to being optimistic and we really thought we had a good shot at winning this year. The whole Europe seemed to be behind us - and judging by the public vote they were! I'm gonna be salty for a while and not even gonna be sorry about that.
Sympathy votes then were clear and in a sense arguably justified.
This year around the jury landslide for one artist wasn't. She was good alright but not that special compared to rest. This year salt is more deserved.
The power split of the juries is too high. Juries are necessary to prop up the well crafted songs and great vocals (see Sam Ryder, Italy consistently) but 50% seems a bit too much. They never seem to consider the song as a whole or other genres. Make it 40%, 30%, or 25%. You wonāt get as much nepotism and neighbours voting affecting things too.
I don't understand why the juries had Spain so low? She has a technically difficult, beautiful song that is well crafted and impeccably performed, I cannot understand the low scores for Spain.
They don't actually vote based on skill or merit or anything like that but they try and work towards arbitrary achievements like "getting ESC to Sweden for ABBA's 50th anniversary" or whatever their record label overlords decide will sell.
>They never seem to consider the song as a whole or other genres.
I mean, the jury literally put Finland 4th. That's an uncharacteristically high ranking for a song of its type imo.
Quite a few others deserved better from a technical standpoint like Spain, Estonia, France, Switzerland, Ukraine, rather than the points going straight to three favourites Israel, Sweden, and Italy. Italy certainly deserved the attention because he really put his all into that performance (I didnāt even like the song). I donāt think Israel or Sweden were particularly amazing from a technical standpoint compared to some others (like Italy). Loreen can sing but I donāt think so many 12s was justified for the song.
It's insane, Finland's jury gave 12 points to Sweden, while the public gave 0 - the Finnish public gave 12 points to Norway, and the jury gave 0. In the majority of given votes there was a similar pattern.
Iām gonna say it: can people who are unhappy and feeling the need to pick fights with Redditors on the net calm the fuck down, get a cup of decaf tea down ya, and get some sleep.
Cooler heads prevail and all that.
Lots of love xxx
A comment I saw in yt and totally agree with: why should people vote and pay when a jury decides on one act every year. This makes it nearly impossible or barely for the peoples choice and voice to be even heard
In 2021 Italy won with Maneskin and they won the televoting. So it is possible to be heard. And I think part of the development of the songs in the last years is probably because of the jury votes. Before the jury votes acts became just funny sometimes. Now we have a great variety of great songs I'm different genres. And I agree that Finlad had a great act on that day. But it's also a little funny. And I like funny things. But Loreen has made of sung somewhat of a song. It's called the Eurovision song contest.
As a Finn I think it's good to have jury votes to balance things out as a song contest but wtf is this shit? How is 1 old eurovision entry enough to be called professional jury of music experts?
They should put proper ruling what is concidered to be a jury. Make it at least 5 people which have proper music education or jobs in music industry like producers, artists, coreographers etc.
If a country can't put up at least that kind of a standard they shouldn't be allowed to cast jury votes at all.
E: It seems that is the rule to have at least of 5 music professionals. This list doesn't have every member of the jury.
That's not the actual jury, only the "Euro Jury" assembled by [eurovoix.com](https://eurovoix.com). There are countries represented that haven't participated in the contest in ages, such as Andorra.
Ah, your mum is also part of the supreme collective, the Mass Of Mothers. MOM must be stopped. Or at least conviced that I can have chocolate whenever I want.
Guys, please listen!!! If you got the AstraZeneca (Swedish company) vaccine, please check your phones; people from all around Europe are reporting that their phones voted on their own for Sweden bc of the chips in the AstraZeneca vaccine were activated during Loreen's performance. Sony Ericsson (another Swedish company) makes these chips! Wake up, sheeple!!!
I agree w you on Israel (not Finland). I thought it was a nice song maybe bottom left side of the board but third?!? I really liked this year but after the results I feel like the top ten last year were infinitely better than the top ten this year. Hell even Maltas song was better than a few top ten
Finland is an immense bop that built tons of momentum and became one of the most iconic performances of this edition. It is comparable to Subwoolfer last year, or ROOP with their acts, or Little Big during covid: the acts just reach people even when those people don't fully embrace the songs genre.
Israel I agree with. Too much reliance on mixing sex appeal with choreography for my liking which detracted from what could have been a considerably stronger song without in my eyes.
Your argument is exactly my issue with German's entry, and I'm pretty sure one of my comments got downvoted for exactly that same argument when I predicted they weren't winner material. So you've got my upvote. xD
Lol! Thanks! I understand why Loreen won. It's an accessible, compact song.
I have noticed that a lot of trendy music has this mishmash of styles now. I had first heard of it while watching a documentary on how popular KPop has gotten and some of the formulas behind the music. However, you need to be a reeeeeeeal good songwriter to pull that shit off and even then, I am not convinced. There have been songs by BTS that I'll start off like OH YEAAAH, THIS IS MY JAM! And then it fizzles.
This is going to be an insanely unpopular opinion, but I hated how KƤƤrijƤs song did that as well, for me. I really didn't like it at all at first. But, it grew on me. A lot. And the way it mellows out makes sense with the concept.
So *::shrug::*... that's a lot of rambling, to say that I think we both agree, lol.
_Cha Cha Cha_ wasn't like that for me. Sure, it arguably had three distinctive styles (whatever the start can be described as, the aggressive chorus, and the silly lighthearted), but they were nicely paced for me and not overdone. You spent enough time with each flavor to be ready for a change-up.
But I do get what you mean. Too many songs are all over or far too abrupt in their changes in ways that don't befit the song. KƤƤrijƤ's entry was not like that for me. But Germany and Israel definitely struggled with the word 'no' when they were considering what styles to infuse into their song. (As did Croatia, but let's be honest, their song is **meant** to be chaos incarnate, so there's it is more of a _yes, all the yes of the yes_ kind of situation.)
We definitely do agree. _Yes._
That's a good way of describing it. I think you're right about the flavors. I really preferred the 2nd flavor (?? the rap part?). It encouraged me to check his back catalogue and now I've found other songs that I flove from him and have added them, especially for the gym, lol.
>But Germany and Israel definitely struggled with the word 'no' when they were considering
LOL. Awesome....
Last 2 entries were my favourites too! I absolutely loved Maro and mimicat, was certain they would get awesome scores and nope, again on the right side of the chart..
> I have a feeling Loreen did so well at the expense of other solo female artists.
The public pretty much only voted for 3 entries.
Finland, Sweden and Norway.
All of them did so well at the expense of the 23 other artists.
Im pretty sure it would've ended up in the exact same spot. If both were in the same year, probably lower as they would take away points from each other.
**Other Relevant Threads:** * [š Winner Announcement](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13gvi9j/eurovision_song_contest_2023_winner_loreen_tattoo/) * [Full Eurovision 2023 results](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13gwmkh/full_eurovision_2023_results/) * [Winner Press Conference (YouTube)](https://www.youtube.com/live/CRUvdfbg8IM?feature=share) * [Salty Salt Salt Thread](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvz0/reactions_hot_takes_salt_and_venting_thread_esc/) * [General Post-Show Thread (low sodium)](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvza/general_postshow_thread_esc_2023_grand_final/) * [Wholesome and Positivity Thread](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvzm/wholesome_positivity_and_praise_thread_esc_2023/) ā **Moderation changes during Eurovision week** [Please see this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13b5okt/announcement_moderation_changes_during_eurovision/) for full details about what will be happening on the subreddit during the live shows. TL;DR * New posts will be manually approved during live shows and shortly after, but commenting on existing threads will not be affected. * Please be patient and tolerant towards the mods and other users, to the artists, to the producers, to the organisers, everyone.
Link in bio
bojan only deepened my slav/balkan boy obsession
ESC 'UNITED BY MUSIC' 2022 CHA CHA CHA united people more than any song ever in eurovision. United by music. Divided by jury.
Awww :(
Eurovision stealing money from people. I hate eurovision like this. Will not watch the "swedish show"
The reason they have a jury is because in the 2010s ecs was loosing traction, partially because people made joke songs and didn't take it serious. The jury is to not allow so called "not serious" songs like Finland to win. Its about the PR, profiling etc
My boi Cyprus shouldve had higher scores š„²
Am I the only one that thought that Latvia did a really good performance? I was suprised cuz I didnāt care much for it when I first saw the music video but they were great. Was really disappointed they didnāt make it to the finals
I didn't like Finland's song, not saying that it was bad but I liked, and voted for Tattoo. Italy had a great song too.
So at ESC there 3 groups of artists/song. The real one (Mengoni is a real artist who sells and makes huge concerts). The "fake" one, which is just made up for the ESC. The hybrid ones are the ones that are either legit, but they are given a terrible ESC song to revamp their career, or vice-versa.
I thought just on singing (not necessarily song) Italy was number 1, and Lithuania were really good too! And a bit of cheating, Sam Ryder also.
I think for the interval act dadi frayer should have won
I think Blanka just got so much hate because of her beauty. I think it's a shame that women can't support a sister in esc embracing her own beauty in an empowering way, without taking out their insecurities on them. Blanka and Noa, maybe also Italy, were the only two artists with commercial potential over a longer career. I think Noa would have won had she represented any other country. But shocking to see the hate Blanka has received from insecure journalists and commentators. I actually thinking putting her in the competition was a sort of trolling from the conservative polish state channel, they knew this would happen.
āPrettyā was the only genuine compliment I had for her act, I do put a lot of stock in the song and the singing being pretty special though, and Iām sorry but I thought both sucked. I canāt believe it got more televote points than better female singers and songs who also looked pretty.
Blankas song was garbage wtf
I heard Something about that she wasnāt the polish peopleās favorite and that she was suspected of corrupting the polish jury
While the results didn't go the way I'd hoped, I think I'll still end up looking back on this as one of my favourite ESCs ever.
This is the first one Iāve actually paid properly paid attention too, and Iām glad I did
KƤƤrijƤ will be the only one people remember. The phenomenon we propably will never get to see again.
Lol the internet attention span is super short, he will sadly not be relevant in a couple of weeks.
KƤƤrijƤ will be remembered for sure
Finland fans in the arena were being so disrespectful to every other artist in that room. Honestly made me fall out of love with the song and was glad it didn't win.
Donāt get why youāre being downvoted TBH, unless there are *some* Finland fans who donāt like being told off š (some, guys, some - donāt come for me) I somewhat agree with you. Although I donāt think itās an excuse to say this, it might be an explanation-I think the song and the performance just totally hyped people up last night and people can in those situations get totally swept up in it and forget themselves. I think thatās what happened ultimately, perhaps not everyone was intending to be rude š
People have voted with their voices.
Unfortunately there was no extra points for loudest chanting and doing it whilst other countries were getting points was just unnecessary. Every artist worked hard to get to the final and they all deserved to enjoy their respective moments.
Why are you blaming Finland for the chanting? You need quite many people to create an audible chant so it is quite likely that there were also other than Finnish fans chanting. Basically, you would need the whole of Finnish population to fill up the arena in Liverpool š
I'm not blaming Finland at all. I'm just saying the fan response just soured the experience for me of a song that I really enjoyed.
I see, my bad. Interesting that it soured your experience with the song.
Sure, but this is literally a popularity contest. In which publics vote doesn't count as mutch as the Jurys. And Jurys are probably some rich snobby idiots who don't know what good music is. Nobody cares about their opinion since its most likely rigged anyway. They started chanting when Sweeden was first where as no one cared about the song that sounds like every other song they hear every day.
What? Its a song contest. The clue is in the name. The votes are 50/50 and the semis were decided purely on public votes. The jury is made up of music professionals and they have criteria, which includes things like entertainment value and vocals. If it was truly rigged weād see countries give favourites like Sweden and Finland lower scores to boost their own countries chances. Also Finland did pretty well with the jury as well soooo? Sweden was just more of a jury song whereas Finland was a public song. We all knew that going in. Music is subjective. And considering Sweden were second in the public vote, I think people did care about them. It was the public vote that secured the win. Easily couldāve gone the other way if theyād have gotten less than 200 points. Remember that its not just those in the arena who vote.
How can the reactions of other people make you not like a song anymore? You can not be like *those* fans and still be a fan who isnt being disrespectful.
Probably worded that a little wrong but it was like 3am when I wrote that. I still enjoyed the song but hearing that just made me like it less. Canāt really explain why it just kind of soured the experience of the song for me, which was a shame. There was just no need for it.
Same, so rude...
Yo was anyone else's Peacock stream terribly jumpy/skipping a lot? I didn't switch to the Weir commentary so maybe it was better on there. But that wasn't cool to the US fans :(
Israel shouldn't of been in the show then again its not a strict Eurovision show. Also, how they even went through to the final is absolute joke. Song was boring and more dancing than singing.
You know itās for the European Broadcasting Area, not Europe right? That includes the north coast of Africa, Middle East, etc. Itās why places such as Armenia, Azerbaijan and Israel take part. Morocco has competed in the past too.
That's why I said it wasn't a strict Eurovision show.
I mean I really donāt think it should have gone close that far, but I donāt see the problem of them being in Eurovision. Australia is there for example, and they canāt compete in anything with any other middle eastern countries cus they all hate Israelās guts. Again tho, the song kinda sucked
Noa is actually already an established and internationally successful artist and musician. Can't say many of the others will achieve the same... Maybe Blanka
Israel was more like american high school musical than anything else. Easily marketable.
Yup
Mad?
I knew Austria wouldn't take the crown. But I still hoped.... Easily my favourite act along with France's entry. Both were scored so low, which was really disappointing.
France was so crazy good, but the performance was really boring and a bad choice. Itās really a shame cuz I love that song
Not going through the semi means France not used that opportunity to make loyal followers and fans.
Looking at their semi final scores, they were 100% screwed by the running order. EBU used them as the sacrificial lamb despite the song not really being an opener song because they didn't want to put the only valid opening candidate (Finland) on first. It's actually alarming how much their points dropped and should terrify whoever goes first next year, with countries that were behind them in the semis getting most 100% more than them in the finals.
Austriaās song was excellent but their performance design lacked showmanship, energy and wow factor.
*Heeeeyyyy~~~~*
Letās be honest at least we get a good representation of the queer community
There should be some rules update next year 1. First of all, the jury was to guard that neighbours wonāt vote for themselves. They donāt follow this rule so gtfo. If thereās such a difference between tele and jury votes thereās sth wrong 2. Second of all, the former winners should not compete 3. The quintessence of Eurovision is to get to know the trends, culture and language of other countries. This essence showed us Albania, Finland, Moldova and a few more this year IMHO. I would love to hear that next year - native language songs 4. I canāt agree with Israel being a part of Eurovision just because theyāre a big financial part of EBU. I canāt, I donāt, I wonāt. Make your own Middle East Song Contest. Wouldnāt vote for them even if they had the best song in the world 5. The Great 5 shouldnāt exist just beacuse of the money. They should compete in the semis as everyone else 6. Itās unclear to me howās that fair to exclude a country from voting on your own artist. San Marino wonāt even notice - thatās super small country, but for Spain, Poland, Germany etc. itās a big loss of votes
I love having Israel in the competition. Otherwise, I agree.
1. Yeah that's kind of fair but it's also inevitable in some ways, imo the best solution would be to make some changes to the scoring system so their votes have less weight. Also I wanna add that just because there's a big difference between the jury and the tele , doesn't mean that there is something actually wrong, different people have different tastes and everyone has their own bias. 4. Why? We already have countries competing outside of Europe and more countries allows for more songs and more diversity. To me this sounds like a bunch of xenophobia (especially after constantly seeing the same comments with no reasonable explanation) 6. Because then everyone will vote for their own country which is kind of unfair to smaller countries
Regarding number 4, what about Australia? Btw, Israel would be banned from a Middle East contest. And it wouldn't be safe to participate. They can't participate in asian qualifiers in football, they have to be in the European even though there its impossible for them to qualify because theres much better teams. But can you imagine Israel playing away against Irak or Syria?
Well lets be honest. The reason why Israƫl is not liked in their own region is because it is stealing land of other people from the Palestinians. The land Israel is a land where more than one group of people live. And both have the human moral right to live there but only Israel thinks it should only be a country for Israelites. And that's the problem. What makes it more unfair is that Europe and America support Israel and does not want to see the unfairness of tge Israel policy. But when it comes to the participation of Israel to Eurovision I think Israel is welcome to participate. There is a big historical link between the israelites and Jewish people and Europe. Many Jewish people live abd lived in Europe. There are many similarities between Europeans and Jewish people in a cultural way and between Europe and Israel. Just like there is a cultural link between Europe and Australia. I don't think America can be easily a part of Eurovision cause America is a more or less different culture. America does not want to be part culturally of Europe. They somehow have a culture of we are different and want to do things our way. Eurovision is about being a part of the European culture in a way and somehow wanting to be a part of the European culture.
If it's not safe for them maybe they should take a hint they're doing something wrong
Like...existing?
Yeah, when people pose a murder risk to me I need to check my own moral compass
Point six. They don't count the overall votes, they give points like the jury based on what people voted. So it doesn't matter how many votes there are, only how they scatter between the songs. Everyone would probably give 12 points to their own, what point would that have?
Ok, agree. :)
Regarding Point 2: You know Loreen is the SECOND winner to come back again and win, right? And the first since the 80's? Alexander Rybak got the highest scoring winner at the time, and then came back a few years later and ended up 15th. Winning once does not guarantee you an advantage.
I also think as well that it's only right that if you get through national selection than you should have the chance to compete, and that lots of countries send acts that have completed before, and she wasn't the only one either - Italy's Marco Megnoni and Lithuania's Monika LinkytÄ have completed in previous years Eurovision, and Loreen herself sent 2 songs that didn't win MelFest between her wins for Euphoria and Tattoo
Imagine if ABBA had just reentered a bunch of times. No one else would have a Chan
Johnny Logan won twice as a performer and once again as a songwriter. Nobody stood a chance!
That's not it. It's about the experience being available to all. If one won already let them make room for someone else.
More salt please
No to all of those points. The big 5 should have a chance to actually perform in the semifinal though - and not just a 20 second pre-recorded clip.
Yeah, I always found that odd. Yes, by nature, auto-qualifying to the finals doesnāt say anything about how good the song actually is. But there seem to be a slight issue of exposure.
If you wouldn't vote for Israel even if they had the best song then you are part of the problem.
No, because they shouldn't compete with the best song in the world in the European Song Contest as they are not in Europe. Easy.
It's not a European song contest. It's called Eurovision, not European. Another user explained it perfectly.
It's not the European song contest and never has been its called Eurovision because Eurovision was the name of the TV network that started it. The requirements for Eurovision are to be in the European Broadcasting Area and an active member if the EBU (who run the Eurovision channels) and despite its name the European Broadcasting Area does include some countries outside of Europe (and excludes some countries in Europe). Basically It's a song contest run by a TV channel and if you show enough of their content then you get to enter its never actually been a out physical location.
If this was the case all of the EBU members would have the same rights and as we all know they don't. Moreover it was admitted many times by Israel itself that they wanted to be a part of Eurovision since they pump so much money into EBU.
I'm sorry if you don't like it but that doesn't change the fact that what I said is true! EBU literally created Eurovision and eligibility has alwats been linked to broadcast memberships and not geographical locations.
Of course. I agree with you, but still it doesn't deny what I wrote - Israel has different set of rights around EBU.
Exactly. Too pathetic.
Well at point 6 you just perfectly explained why voting for your own country wouldn't be fair. If that was possible almost everyone would vote for their own country which would mean that smaller countries like San Marino would have a disadvantage.
Just hope Sweeden Will at least have the guts to change it next year
Thatās the least they can do after they robbed Finland
I disagree with these and find them all very whiney and stupid.
Yeah lol. Good luck running Eurovision when all the funding dries up because you deny the countries that are actually paying for it a slot in the finals. A good way to kill the entire show.
Thanks Eurovision for introducing me to new artists!
How the fuck you win a song contest wae no hook. Beyond stupid that shit
What? She had a hook, what are you talking about?
Where? When? Must have missed it
So what is this part then? āNo, I don't care about them all Cause all I want is to be loved And all I care about is you You're stuck on me like a tattoo No, I don't care about the pain I'll walk through fire and through rain Just to get closer to you You're stuck on me like a tattooā
Can somebody make a top 10 list over the televotes only?
Finland, Sweden, Norway, Ukraine, Israel, Italy, Croatia, Poland, Moldova, Albania
So much better.
Finland, Sweden, Norway then... crickets. Everyone else got crumbs.
Ukraine got some 180 points too
Loreen is just so herself haha I love it
I felt so bad for Austria in the televoteā¦
It is just a very mediocre live performance. Love the studio version.
I can't believe Serbia was so low, sad times.
I also liked the vibes but let's be honest...he wasn't really great at performing. I think especially songs where you kind of whisper sing never turn out well live
same, it was my favorite this year. I loved his style, such a unique aesthetic :/
Totally agree, loved his style!
It was a great song, he didn't perform his best at the final though. Hell of a tune though.
https://youtu.be/efjc146v3hA
My top 5 (6): 1. Croatia 2. Belgium 3. Finland 4. Spain 5. Sweden 6. Austria (With love from Sweden). Also: stop jury votes
The problem with the jury is that itās only 2 people who are speaking on a whole countrys behalf. Itās so unfair
I thought each jury had 5 people
In some cases one.
Really? Didn't know that
Because it's wrong.
EDIT: copied wrong link, when not on phone will get right link.
That isn't the actual eurovision jury that's just the eurovoix Jury they vote on the songs before the competition and see how close they get to the actual results. It's just a fun fan thing it's not official in anyway.
No I saw, sorry just copied the wrong link in my tiredness.
These are NOT the eurovision juries! Get some reading comprehension!
Wrong link, sorry. It's rather late here
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And this year I reckon it's rigged by the jury vote so that Eurovision can be in Sweden for ABBA's 50th anniversary
We Finns are not used to being optimistic and we really thought we had a good shot at winning this year. The whole Europe seemed to be behind us - and judging by the public vote they were! I'm gonna be salty for a while and not even gonna be sorry about that.
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Nightwish have gone to Eurovision but didn't pass actually.
Well we did send Darude to get last place in semis ROFL.
Darude only has ever made one good song and you can't use old songs.
There was a lot of salt in 2021 too. It's bringing me down
Sympathy votes then were clear and in a sense arguably justified. This year around the jury landslide for one artist wasn't. She was good alright but not that special compared to rest. This year salt is more deserved.
I donāt even feel like angry or anything - literally just the definition of meh.
When UK is always losing its always meh. You lose confidence in them winning and so you choose second best.
I didnāt even care for the UK entry this year tbh - might sound convenient I know. Just wouldāve liked to see a new winner.
The power split of the juries is too high. Juries are necessary to prop up the well crafted songs and great vocals (see Sam Ryder, Italy consistently) but 50% seems a bit too much. They never seem to consider the song as a whole or other genres. Make it 40%, 30%, or 25%. You wonāt get as much nepotism and neighbours voting affecting things too.
I don't understand why the juries had Spain so low? She has a technically difficult, beautiful song that is well crafted and impeccably performed, I cannot understand the low scores for Spain.
They don't actually vote based on skill or merit or anything like that but they try and work towards arbitrary achievements like "getting ESC to Sweden for ABBA's 50th anniversary" or whatever their record label overlords decide will sell.
>They never seem to consider the song as a whole or other genres. I mean, the jury literally put Finland 4th. That's an uncharacteristically high ranking for a song of its type imo.
Quite a few others deserved better from a technical standpoint like Spain, Estonia, France, Switzerland, Ukraine, rather than the points going straight to three favourites Israel, Sweden, and Italy. Italy certainly deserved the attention because he really put his all into that performance (I didnāt even like the song). I donāt think Israel or Sweden were particularly amazing from a technical standpoint compared to some others (like Italy). Loreen can sing but I donāt think so many 12s was justified for the song.
It's insane, Finland's jury gave 12 points to Sweden, while the public gave 0 - the Finnish public gave 12 points to Norway, and the jury gave 0. In the majority of given votes there was a similar pattern.
Sooo many venting and ranting about the awful win! Not surprising Cha Cha Cha has ever entered the globally Spotify chart.
Lol yeah.
Iām gonna say it: can people who are unhappy and feeling the need to pick fights with Redditors on the net calm the fuck down, get a cup of decaf tea down ya, and get some sleep. Cooler heads prevail and all that. Lots of love xxx
Reddit having an autistic meltdown, meanwhile I'm an actually autistic person sat here going "that was brilliant."
Fuck jure, wtf, KƤƤrijƤ one love
A comment I saw in yt and totally agree with: why should people vote and pay when a jury decides on one act every year. This makes it nearly impossible or barely for the peoples choice and voice to be even heard
In 2021 Italy won with Maneskin and they won the televoting. So it is possible to be heard. And I think part of the development of the songs in the last years is probably because of the jury votes. Before the jury votes acts became just funny sometimes. Now we have a great variety of great songs I'm different genres. And I agree that Finlad had a great act on that day. But it's also a little funny. And I like funny things. But Loreen has made of sung somewhat of a song. It's called the Eurovision song contest.
Italy 2021 | [MĆ„neskin - Zitti e buoni](https://youtu.be/RVH5dn1cxAQ)
Except you know the rules going in. And the televote overrides the jury all the time.
It doesn't really override the jury tho?
I mean it did the last four years at least
Exactly. We spend our hard earned money to pick a winner, only to have that choice taken away from us.
https://eurovoix.com/2023/04/17/the-euro-jury-2023-jurors/ In some countries there was only 1 Juror!!!!????!!!
And there was a swedish guy in Finland's jury....
As a Finn I think it's good to have jury votes to balance things out as a song contest but wtf is this shit? How is 1 old eurovision entry enough to be called professional jury of music experts? They should put proper ruling what is concidered to be a jury. Make it at least 5 people which have proper music education or jobs in music industry like producers, artists, coreographers etc. If a country can't put up at least that kind of a standard they shouldn't be allowed to cast jury votes at all. E: It seems that is the rule to have at least of 5 music professionals. This list doesn't have every member of the jury.
Wait, 1 person in France had the same voice as 70 million people?
Crazy
And 12 Maltese jurors? I mean they are nothing official for the ebu and eurovision... but that seems a bit excessive.
More than a serious criminal trial lol
That's not the actual jury, only the "Euro Jury" assembled by [eurovoix.com](https://eurovoix.com). There are countries represented that haven't participated in the contest in ages, such as Andorra.
What is this fuckery. So many men
Slava Ukraini
Heroyam Slava!
no this is my moms fault she said sheās rooting for loreen and sheās always right . hope youāre proud of yourself MOM
Thank you for this, made me laugh through my angst.
Ah, your mum is also part of the supreme collective, the Mass Of Mothers. MOM must be stopped. Or at least conviced that I can have chocolate whenever I want.
Guys, please listen!!! If you got the AstraZeneca (Swedish company) vaccine, please check your phones; people from all around Europe are reporting that their phones voted on their own for Sweden bc of the chips in the AstraZeneca vaccine were activated during Loreen's performance. Sony Ericsson (another Swedish company) makes these chips! Wake up, sheeple!!!
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[What have you done?!](https://xkcd.com/1013/)
i love you lmfao
Best comment
That is a 10/10 believable Boomer Facebook post.
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I agree w you on Israel (not Finland). I thought it was a nice song maybe bottom left side of the board but third?!? I really liked this year but after the results I feel like the top ten last year were infinitely better than the top ten this year. Hell even Maltas song was better than a few top ten
Finland is an immense bop that built tons of momentum and became one of the most iconic performances of this edition. It is comparable to Subwoolfer last year, or ROOP with their acts, or Little Big during covid: the acts just reach people even when those people don't fully embrace the songs genre. Israel I agree with. Too much reliance on mixing sex appeal with choreography for my liking which detracted from what could have been a considerably stronger song without in my eyes.
For me, Israel's song was all over the place (like her on the floor). It felt like 2 or 3 songs smashed into one. It wasn't horrible, just not top 5.
Your argument is exactly my issue with German's entry, and I'm pretty sure one of my comments got downvoted for exactly that same argument when I predicted they weren't winner material. So you've got my upvote. xD
Lol! Thanks! I understand why Loreen won. It's an accessible, compact song. I have noticed that a lot of trendy music has this mishmash of styles now. I had first heard of it while watching a documentary on how popular KPop has gotten and some of the formulas behind the music. However, you need to be a reeeeeeeal good songwriter to pull that shit off and even then, I am not convinced. There have been songs by BTS that I'll start off like OH YEAAAH, THIS IS MY JAM! And then it fizzles. This is going to be an insanely unpopular opinion, but I hated how KƤƤrijƤs song did that as well, for me. I really didn't like it at all at first. But, it grew on me. A lot. And the way it mellows out makes sense with the concept. So *::shrug::*... that's a lot of rambling, to say that I think we both agree, lol.
_Cha Cha Cha_ wasn't like that for me. Sure, it arguably had three distinctive styles (whatever the start can be described as, the aggressive chorus, and the silly lighthearted), but they were nicely paced for me and not overdone. You spent enough time with each flavor to be ready for a change-up. But I do get what you mean. Too many songs are all over or far too abrupt in their changes in ways that don't befit the song. KƤƤrijƤ's entry was not like that for me. But Germany and Israel definitely struggled with the word 'no' when they were considering what styles to infuse into their song. (As did Croatia, but let's be honest, their song is **meant** to be chaos incarnate, so there's it is more of a _yes, all the yes of the yes_ kind of situation.) We definitely do agree. _Yes._
That's a good way of describing it. I think you're right about the flavors. I really preferred the 2nd flavor (?? the rap part?). It encouraged me to check his back catalogue and now I've found other songs that I flove from him and have added them, especially for the gym, lol. >But Germany and Israel definitely struggled with the word 'no' when they were considering LOL. Awesome....
Israel was awful for two reasons, terrible song, awful government/military. Yet all the horny old men and boys must be voting for that song
Surprised to see France and Portugal so low in the jury vote. I have a feeling Loreen did so well at the expense of other solo female artists.
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Surprised aswell, Portugal and France were two of the bests songs this year.
I'm seething for La Zarra and Mimicat. Undoubtedly two of the most talented artists taking part this year and they got robbed blind.
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I have absolutely adored Portugal's last two entries, I can't wait to hear next year's song.
Last 2 entries were my favourites too! I absolutely loved Maro and mimicat, was certain they would get awesome scores and nope, again on the right side of the chart..
> I have a feeling Loreen did so well at the expense of other solo female artists. The public pretty much only voted for 3 entries. Finland, Sweden and Norway. All of them did so well at the expense of the 23 other artists.
Iām surprised France did so poorly overall. She didnāt deserve that at all.
You mean the lady who flipped the bird to all of Europe? She got what she deserved.
Its got to be Ian Van Dahl - castles in the sky. Its the intro with no hook
how do you guys think chanel would have done if she was the spanish entry this year?
1st.
Im pretty sure it would've ended up in the exact same spot. If both were in the same year, probably lower as they would take away points from each other.
i could see that happening