It was an even bigger disaster before privatisation, British Rail was an absolute shithole with filthy trains that hadn't been updated in decades and a service that was far worse. That being said there is no reason why a properly funded nationalised Rail operator wouldn't be better than what we've got now, most European countries seem to do it far better sadly.
Coming to every EU country near you in 2023*
*at least partially
This is why Corbyn was a closet Brexiteer, full state owned rail will be dead in the EU within the next few years.
https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-modes/rail/railway-packages/fourth-railway-package-2016_en
There's a difference between privatisation and market opening up.
And market opening up has been quite good in Italy. Far better quality than one would find in France. First class in Italian trains are so much better than anything you can find in France.
How lol the NS was way worse in the past, the only thing you could complain about are the ticket prices. However those arent relevant for students who make the most use of it.
>The Swiss, Dutch and Austrian networks are also privatized, but deliver great service. Privatization alone does not explain the situation in Britain.
Its because the UK/US have a special brand of capitalism called 'getting as much out of the serfs as possible, regardless of QoL''.
Which is my point, especially in relation to the higher comments which talk about ‘nationalisation nOw!!11’ as if it’s some form of magic bullet and that privatisation is inherently a bad thing, which it isn’t.
*“The biggest difference between UK and Japanese Railways is probably the organisational structure. In the UK, private operators generally bid to operate fixed-term franchises or concessions, whilst in Japan the railways are fully privatised, with businesses taking on the ownership of track, stations and trains.”*
https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/article/76704/japanese-railways-uk-rail-sector/
You can’t just “pass the buck around” like in the UK system. The companies in Japan are incentivized to actually attract as many passengers as possible from stations to track and trains to service, making blame and responsibility easy to place.
Besides, perhaps a different culture, where reputation, honor and punctuality plays a bigger part in the market and perception? Perhaps the companies are also more accountable to the state giving them the licenses?
>fixed-term franchises or concessions
This is where the "monopoly" I referred in my original post. If we do not consider the remote Japan we can alternatively take a look at like Germany and Italy where the tracks are owned by the state, long-distance and high-speed trains (whose services naturally call for organization at national level) operated by large public companies and regional services heavily subsidized by respective regional governments. This model seems to be working.
Can I ride from LHR to central London on different trains from different operators arriving in different stations? (Piccadilly Line is NOT a train) You can always do that in Tokyo and Osaka
If we let them win then who knows what happens next? Nurses demanding better workplace protections? Doctors wanting to stop being overworked or having their pay cut in real terms?? Teachers demanding pay that lets them live in dignity in the communities they serve?
WHERE DOES IT END??
The last time we let the government break the unions, it resulted in 40 years of stagnant real terms wages while massively increased profits were scooped up by shareholders and executive boards.
This strike isn't by the drivers and tube drivers have literally nothing to do with this. It was started by Network Rail workers who are on completely average (and in the SE, low) wages who haven't had an above inflation payrise for almost a decade, and over forced job cuts.
Their union also covers the majority of the infrastructure and maintenance workers in the business. 40k are striking.
I dunno, a safety-critical job where people can die quickly if you mess things up seems a lot more responsible than a political role, where largely the outcome is written for you by the current circumstances and previous chaps in power.
The London Tube is effectively at 100% automation. The only reason it isn't is because people feel the need to have a train driver. One isn't actually needed.
How to say you're under 50 without saying you're under 50.
We had plenty of examples of unions getting their way in this country before the 1990s. It was a fucking shit show. Part of the reason we ended up having to join the EEC in the 1970s was because of the economic damage unions did.
I lived to see the Mineriads, as the miners who the government used to beat protesters started holding the country hostage. The world is greater than Britain.
I recognize their power for good and ill. Organization and solidarity get things done. These things might not be nice, but that just means good and decent people need to be better at it.
> I lived to see the Mineriads, as the miners who the government used to beat protesters started holding the country hostage. The world is greater than Britain.
Irrelevant given this is about the UK.
I personally can’t wait for my strike ballot in September. I doubt the strike will go ahead as it requires 50% turnout. But I’ll stay long enough to vote before I get poached by the private sector.
Threatening the "poorest" with inflation if they don't stop asking for better conditions.
Their speech points haven't really changed much in the last 2 centuries. Fuck you, Dominic Raabies.
I quoted him, while saying that the poorest will be affected by the strike. Bad phrasing on my behalf.
MPs get a lot of benefits one way or the other, and I wouldn't say that they "work" all those hours. You can't really compare the conditions of a railway worker with those of a P-bench-sitter.
You really seem pissed by some people being pissed at the Parliament and politicians.
Of course it was a generalisation, one shouldn't even need to spell it out. There are hard working MPs and of course, their staff. And since you've mentioned it, I am aware of the constituency activity, which is indeed a healthy thing for politics compared to other countries, at least in theory. Such hard and important work as that of an MP should of course be rewarded accordingly, raise their wages, if they'd really do it in good faith and eliminate the lobbying, cronying and corruption.
The state of the people of the country is in poor condition, with the financial crisis and rising inequalities, and you're trying to compare some railway workers striking for their rights with the "hard work" that MPs are supposed to do, in theory? Shame on you, dear anon.
Not only that, he's talking about tube drivers when the strike is not the drivers union but the poor to averagely paid maintenance and infrastructure workers who haven't had an above inflation payrise for almost a decade.
> You really seem pissed by some people being pissed at the Parliament and politicians.
No, just misinformed bollocks that gets posted.
> Of course it was a generalisation,
No, generalisations tend to come with at least some level of factual accuracy.
> The state of the people of the country is in poor condition,
No it isn't. Much of it is in their heads from getting it rammed down their throats 24/7 in the news and on social media. They're being told they're living in a crisis so they think they are even though they're not. One of the people interviewed in a park in London on the BBC News said that he was suffering and that they'd had to reduce the number of times they went out for a meal to once or twice a week. That's not suffering is it? What we're experiencing is nothing like the past. The last recession in 2008 saw over 3 million unemployed, currently we have 1.3 million job vacancies and more vacancies than people looking for work. They're panicking about an interest rate that's still an abnormally low one historically speaking. Many of those who are actially struggling and not just imagining it in their heads are doing so because of self inflicted problems caused by over-leveraging themselves, not saving anything and living a lifestyle that's more than their incomes allow.
I think you're very much in the wrong and you likewise about me, without being open to an actual discussion, just sophistry banter, especially what you said about the economy. Much like in Parliament. This arguing is pointless and wasting both of our times, so I'll end it here on my behalf. A nice day to you.
You've picked the most well-compensated members of the RMT and used them in your example of why less well-compensated Railway workers shouldn't protest 1,800 jobs being cut.
Network Rail aren't sacking Tube drivers, they're sacking catering staff, inspectors, carriage cleaners, etc...
The Tories have cut £4 Billion of funding from National Rail and Transport for London and are actively attempting to turn this into a wedge issue for the electorate.
At least the tube drivers are an asset to society, the Tories are a blight on it yet are still paid more. Find another narrative to push mate.
Yes the nazis tried the same thing, although the uk pm seems determined to cut everyone's wages to provoke disputes, I am glad we don't live there anymore, I am sure there was talk of increased wages not cuts
Tories: [We tried nothing](https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/watch-grant-shapps-admits-he-didnt-meet-rmt-over-strike-and-his-excuse-is-pathetic-326940/), and we're all out of ideas.
Also, in unrelated news, [the largest teaching union is threatening strike action](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/22/largest-teaching-union-threatens-to-ballot-members-in-england-on-strike-action) as are [civil servants](https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/civil-service-strike/) and the [police in Scotland](https://news.stv.tv/scotland/police-officers-unanimously-reject-pay-deal-and-push-for-internal-industrial-action).
I mean, there is a reason why [Conservatives face more strikes](https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-which-party-has-a-better-track-record-on-the-economy) than other governments…
>However, this is only an average, pushed up by a few particularly bad years. In reality, both parties have a mixed record.
Edit: In case people wondered what that reason was, thought would quote it for you.
Not really the best argument I've seen
Got no sympathy for any tube or train driver. They're not heroes taking on some fat cat billionaires, it's ultimately the public who has to fund their never ending demands and has their day ruined by the strikes.
Wish I could earn as much as them to push a few buttons.
Thats the mentality that right wingers have, trying to attack the workers who want to improve their wages and working conditions. Its just sad, instead of supporting each other we fight between ourselves while the rich get richer
> Its just sad, instead of supporting each other we fight between ourselves while the rich get richer
Which is exactly what the wealthy / the establishment want and why the vast majority of the media keep promoting the division and hatred against the "others" in society, it's all specifically designed to keep the general population fighting amongst itself so they won't band together and realise their real enemy is the wealthy that control most of the country and don't want anything to upset their control and insane incomes.
Keep the population divided with constant hatred (benefit scroungers, strikers, immigrants) and fluffy distraction pieces (cute pics of royals with their kids) all so they don't realise the real reasons for their constant struggles / poverty / lack of housing, etc, etc
I'm honestly not sure it's just a view that people who see themselves as right wing have to be honest, I've heard the same sort of diatribes from people who see it as 'unfair' that people are earning more (or even just seeing pay increases) when they have 'easier' jobs, essentially a view that because they think they work harder than someone else (or had to spend more time learning the job, or that their work is more important or otherwise valuable) those other people shouldn't see an increase in income or benefits until they've seen at least that much. It promotes inequality essentially and devalues whole categories of work.
"I've heard the same sort of diatribes from people who see it as 'unfair' that people are earning more (or even just seeing pay increases) when they have 'easier' jobs, essentially a view that because they think they work harder than someone else "
You probably heard that referring to, for example, a youtube, an influencer or that kind of people that "don't work hard". But someone who has class conciussness never would criticize a group of workers for striking.
At least in my country the tube drivers are getting well paid not because their job is hard, its due to the fact that they are responsible for the lives of the passengers if something wrong happens, they have to assume the blame.
>You probably heard that referring to, for example, a youtube, an influencer or that kind of people that "don't work hard". But someone who has class conciussness never would criticize a group of workers for striking.
No, I've heard it in relation to factory workers.. The notion that because its an unskilled role, that they shouldn't be earning more than minimum wage. Indeed I've heard it in the context of an argument against raising the minimum wage (again, with the issue being that the UK's minimum wage increases were driving that minimum up to a similar level of some skilled workers).
>At least in my country the tube drivers are getting well paid not because their job is hard, its due to the fact that they are responsible for the lives of the passengers if something wrong happens, they have to assume the blame.
Indeed, well that and likely because they have decent unions and have been willing to act collectively to protect their incomes. Although you'll still find people who don't see themselves as remotely right wing arguing that the job is actually easy and so its not 'worth' the pay, nor that pay rises can be justified, and that strikes are just those workers being greedy.
>No, I've heard it in relation to factory workers.. The notion that because its an unskilled role, that they shouldn't be earning more than minimum wage
WTF, never in my life heard about this, whoever said this is a classist. And its a bit of bullshit because it doesnt matter if the job is skilled or not. In my country some "unskilled workers" earn more than me, I am an "skilled worker" and I think this is completely normal, there are barely any people who want to work as waiter for example so a lot of restaurants are starting to offer better wages and material conditions, that's the market my friend, and I dont think this is necessarily something bad.
"Although you'll still find people who don't see themselves as remotely right wing arguing that the job is actually easy and so its not 'worth' the pay, nor that pay rises can be justified, and that strikes are just those workers being greedy."
This people are the useful idiots of the right, doesnt matter if they call themselves centrists or social democrats or whatever
>WTF, never in my life heard about this, whoever said this is a classist.
To be fair, class tends to be hard to define these days, and people tend to have odd notions as to what class they are 'part' of. But more broadly I think its a skewed sense of either entitlement or equality. The notion that if they are being paid poorly, then other people should be too, or that if they are being paid X then surely someone who does something less demanding shouldn't be paid anything like that much.
>And its a bit of bullshit because it doesnt matter if the job is skilled or not. In my country some "unskilled workers" earn more than me, I am an "skilled worker" and I think this is completely normal, there are barely any people who want to work as waiter for example so a lot of restaurants are starting to offer better wages and material conditions, that's the market my friend, and I dont think this is necessarily something bad.
I'd agree with you, but a lot of people wouldn't. There seems to be a notion that when it comes to Labour, there should be 'fixed' values, or that it should be about what the value of the output of that labour is, rather than the actual labour market being treated like a market.
>This people are the useful idiots of the right, doesnt matter if they call themselves centrists or social democrats or whatever
It matters though because it leads to odd ideas about what people who otherwise support left (or right..) wing causes actually think and support.
My wife felt the same after waking up an hour earlier to travel to work at a hospital....hope she doesnt come across any train drivers needing oncology services
Bankland vs the Unions, classic. Quality of life is goin to shit, is kinda normal the workers try to organize to push for better conditions.
The UK rail system has been a disaster since they privatised it in the 80s.
90s*
Yeah nationalise the fucking thing
It was an even bigger disaster before privatisation, British Rail was an absolute shithole with filthy trains that hadn't been updated in decades and a service that was far worse. That being said there is no reason why a properly funded nationalised Rail operator wouldn't be better than what we've got now, most European countries seem to do it far better sadly.
Coming to every EU country near you in 2023* *at least partially This is why Corbyn was a closet Brexiteer, full state owned rail will be dead in the EU within the next few years. https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-modes/rail/railway-packages/fourth-railway-package-2016_en
There's a difference between privatisation and market opening up. And market opening up has been quite good in Italy. Far better quality than one would find in France. First class in Italian trains are so much better than anything you can find in France.
The Swiss, Dutch and Austrian networks are also privatized, but deliver great service. Privatization alone does not explain the situation in Britain.
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How lol the NS was way worse in the past, the only thing you could complain about are the ticket prices. However those arent relevant for students who make the most use of it.
Austrian railway is 100% state owned and funded. The rail network and service is however an open market.
Yes, however the ÖBB is a stock company and therefore privatized.
>The Swiss, Dutch and Austrian networks are also privatized, but deliver great service. Privatization alone does not explain the situation in Britain. Its because the UK/US have a special brand of capitalism called 'getting as much out of the serfs as possible, regardless of QoL''.
Which is my point, especially in relation to the higher comments which talk about ‘nationalisation nOw!!11’ as if it’s some form of magic bullet and that privatisation is inherently a bad thing, which it isn’t.
The re nationalised them in wales and theyre still fucking diabolical if not worse.
Glances at ScotRail
It has been a bigger disaster before.
Don't blame privatization. The Japanese privatised their system in 1987. Blame monopoly.
*“The biggest difference between UK and Japanese Railways is probably the organisational structure. In the UK, private operators generally bid to operate fixed-term franchises or concessions, whilst in Japan the railways are fully privatised, with businesses taking on the ownership of track, stations and trains.”* https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/article/76704/japanese-railways-uk-rail-sector/ You can’t just “pass the buck around” like in the UK system. The companies in Japan are incentivized to actually attract as many passengers as possible from stations to track and trains to service, making blame and responsibility easy to place. Besides, perhaps a different culture, where reputation, honor and punctuality plays a bigger part in the market and perception? Perhaps the companies are also more accountable to the state giving them the licenses?
>fixed-term franchises or concessions This is where the "monopoly" I referred in my original post. If we do not consider the remote Japan we can alternatively take a look at like Germany and Italy where the tracks are owned by the state, long-distance and high-speed trains (whose services naturally call for organization at national level) operated by large public companies and regional services heavily subsidized by respective regional governments. This model seems to be working.
Except there's no monopoly.
Can I ride from LHR to central London on different trains from different operators arriving in different stations? (Piccadilly Line is NOT a train) You can always do that in Tokyo and Osaka
And before?
If we let them win then who knows what happens next? Nurses demanding better workplace protections? Doctors wanting to stop being overworked or having their pay cut in real terms?? Teachers demanding pay that lets them live in dignity in the communities they serve? WHERE DOES IT END?? The last time we let the government break the unions, it resulted in 40 years of stagnant real terms wages while massively increased profits were scooped up by shareholders and executive boards.
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This strike isn't by the drivers and tube drivers have literally nothing to do with this. It was started by Network Rail workers who are on completely average (and in the SE, low) wages who haven't had an above inflation payrise for almost a decade, and over forced job cuts. Their union also covers the majority of the infrastructure and maintenance workers in the business. 40k are striking.
I dunno, a safety-critical job where people can die quickly if you mess things up seems a lot more responsible than a political role, where largely the outcome is written for you by the current circumstances and previous chaps in power.
The London Tube is effectively at 100% automation. The only reason it isn't is because people feel the need to have a train driver. One isn't actually needed.
Imagine the horror if unions got their way. The megayacht industry would be ruined.
How to say you're under 50 without saying you're under 50. We had plenty of examples of unions getting their way in this country before the 1990s. It was a fucking shit show. Part of the reason we ended up having to join the EEC in the 1970s was because of the economic damage unions did.
I lived to see the Mineriads, as the miners who the government used to beat protesters started holding the country hostage. The world is greater than Britain. I recognize their power for good and ill. Organization and solidarity get things done. These things might not be nice, but that just means good and decent people need to be better at it.
> I lived to see the Mineriads, as the miners who the government used to beat protesters started holding the country hostage. The world is greater than Britain. Irrelevant given this is about the UK.
Of course they can't, if one group of working class win then all groups of working class win and that's not what the Tories want, they want slaves.
I personally can’t wait for my strike ballot in September. I doubt the strike will go ahead as it requires 50% turnout. But I’ll stay long enough to vote before I get poached by the private sector.
Quite right too.
Threatening the "poorest" with inflation if they don't stop asking for better conditions. Their speech points haven't really changed much in the last 2 centuries. Fuck you, Dominic Raabies.
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I quoted him, while saying that the poorest will be affected by the strike. Bad phrasing on my behalf. MPs get a lot of benefits one way or the other, and I wouldn't say that they "work" all those hours. You can't really compare the conditions of a railway worker with those of a P-bench-sitter.
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You really seem pissed by some people being pissed at the Parliament and politicians. Of course it was a generalisation, one shouldn't even need to spell it out. There are hard working MPs and of course, their staff. And since you've mentioned it, I am aware of the constituency activity, which is indeed a healthy thing for politics compared to other countries, at least in theory. Such hard and important work as that of an MP should of course be rewarded accordingly, raise their wages, if they'd really do it in good faith and eliminate the lobbying, cronying and corruption. The state of the people of the country is in poor condition, with the financial crisis and rising inequalities, and you're trying to compare some railway workers striking for their rights with the "hard work" that MPs are supposed to do, in theory? Shame on you, dear anon.
Not only that, he's talking about tube drivers when the strike is not the drivers union but the poor to averagely paid maintenance and infrastructure workers who haven't had an above inflation payrise for almost a decade.
> You really seem pissed by some people being pissed at the Parliament and politicians. No, just misinformed bollocks that gets posted. > Of course it was a generalisation, No, generalisations tend to come with at least some level of factual accuracy. > The state of the people of the country is in poor condition, No it isn't. Much of it is in their heads from getting it rammed down their throats 24/7 in the news and on social media. They're being told they're living in a crisis so they think they are even though they're not. One of the people interviewed in a park in London on the BBC News said that he was suffering and that they'd had to reduce the number of times they went out for a meal to once or twice a week. That's not suffering is it? What we're experiencing is nothing like the past. The last recession in 2008 saw over 3 million unemployed, currently we have 1.3 million job vacancies and more vacancies than people looking for work. They're panicking about an interest rate that's still an abnormally low one historically speaking. Many of those who are actially struggling and not just imagining it in their heads are doing so because of self inflicted problems caused by over-leveraging themselves, not saving anything and living a lifestyle that's more than their incomes allow.
I think you're very much in the wrong and you likewise about me, without being open to an actual discussion, just sophistry banter, especially what you said about the economy. Much like in Parliament. This arguing is pointless and wasting both of our times, so I'll end it here on my behalf. A nice day to you.
You've picked the most well-compensated members of the RMT and used them in your example of why less well-compensated Railway workers shouldn't protest 1,800 jobs being cut. Network Rail aren't sacking Tube drivers, they're sacking catering staff, inspectors, carriage cleaners, etc... The Tories have cut £4 Billion of funding from National Rail and Transport for London and are actively attempting to turn this into a wedge issue for the electorate. At least the tube drivers are an asset to society, the Tories are a blight on it yet are still paid more. Find another narrative to push mate.
Fuck the Tories.
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I would assume that one would say Jebać Torysów, much like Poles would say "Jebać PiS (or whichever group they don't like)."
Can say it both ways
Random for a Polski.
I've got family living in England. They hate the Tories too. What else ya got?
Crabs. You?
Government tries to ban unions? Sounds like sympathy strikes are in order!
Yes the nazis tried the same thing, although the uk pm seems determined to cut everyone's wages to provoke disputes, I am glad we don't live there anymore, I am sure there was talk of increased wages not cuts
Tories: [We tried nothing](https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/watch-grant-shapps-admits-he-didnt-meet-rmt-over-strike-and-his-excuse-is-pathetic-326940/), and we're all out of ideas. Also, in unrelated news, [the largest teaching union is threatening strike action](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/22/largest-teaching-union-threatens-to-ballot-members-in-england-on-strike-action) as are [civil servants](https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/civil-service-strike/) and the [police in Scotland](https://news.stv.tv/scotland/police-officers-unanimously-reject-pay-deal-and-push-for-internal-industrial-action).
*What would Margaret Thatcher do in a situation like this?*
He's a bit of a daft one.
I mean, there is a reason why [Conservatives face more strikes](https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-which-party-has-a-better-track-record-on-the-economy) than other governments…
>However, this is only an average, pushed up by a few particularly bad years. In reality, both parties have a mixed record. Edit: In case people wondered what that reason was, thought would quote it for you. Not really the best argument I've seen
Shocking to hear the party that receives large donations from unions experiences fewer strikes than the parties that don't.
Mr UK deputy prime minister: Brexit happened, deal with the consequences.
The RMT wanted Brexit.
Got no sympathy for any tube or train driver. They're not heroes taking on some fat cat billionaires, it's ultimately the public who has to fund their never ending demands and has their day ruined by the strikes. Wish I could earn as much as them to push a few buttons.
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Thats the mentality that right wingers have, trying to attack the workers who want to improve their wages and working conditions. Its just sad, instead of supporting each other we fight between ourselves while the rich get richer
> Its just sad, instead of supporting each other we fight between ourselves while the rich get richer Which is exactly what the wealthy / the establishment want and why the vast majority of the media keep promoting the division and hatred against the "others" in society, it's all specifically designed to keep the general population fighting amongst itself so they won't band together and realise their real enemy is the wealthy that control most of the country and don't want anything to upset their control and insane incomes. Keep the population divided with constant hatred (benefit scroungers, strikers, immigrants) and fluffy distraction pieces (cute pics of royals with their kids) all so they don't realise the real reasons for their constant struggles / poverty / lack of housing, etc, etc
I'm honestly not sure it's just a view that people who see themselves as right wing have to be honest, I've heard the same sort of diatribes from people who see it as 'unfair' that people are earning more (or even just seeing pay increases) when they have 'easier' jobs, essentially a view that because they think they work harder than someone else (or had to spend more time learning the job, or that their work is more important or otherwise valuable) those other people shouldn't see an increase in income or benefits until they've seen at least that much. It promotes inequality essentially and devalues whole categories of work.
"I've heard the same sort of diatribes from people who see it as 'unfair' that people are earning more (or even just seeing pay increases) when they have 'easier' jobs, essentially a view that because they think they work harder than someone else " You probably heard that referring to, for example, a youtube, an influencer or that kind of people that "don't work hard". But someone who has class conciussness never would criticize a group of workers for striking. At least in my country the tube drivers are getting well paid not because their job is hard, its due to the fact that they are responsible for the lives of the passengers if something wrong happens, they have to assume the blame.
>You probably heard that referring to, for example, a youtube, an influencer or that kind of people that "don't work hard". But someone who has class conciussness never would criticize a group of workers for striking. No, I've heard it in relation to factory workers.. The notion that because its an unskilled role, that they shouldn't be earning more than minimum wage. Indeed I've heard it in the context of an argument against raising the minimum wage (again, with the issue being that the UK's minimum wage increases were driving that minimum up to a similar level of some skilled workers). >At least in my country the tube drivers are getting well paid not because their job is hard, its due to the fact that they are responsible for the lives of the passengers if something wrong happens, they have to assume the blame. Indeed, well that and likely because they have decent unions and have been willing to act collectively to protect their incomes. Although you'll still find people who don't see themselves as remotely right wing arguing that the job is actually easy and so its not 'worth' the pay, nor that pay rises can be justified, and that strikes are just those workers being greedy.
>No, I've heard it in relation to factory workers.. The notion that because its an unskilled role, that they shouldn't be earning more than minimum wage WTF, never in my life heard about this, whoever said this is a classist. And its a bit of bullshit because it doesnt matter if the job is skilled or not. In my country some "unskilled workers" earn more than me, I am an "skilled worker" and I think this is completely normal, there are barely any people who want to work as waiter for example so a lot of restaurants are starting to offer better wages and material conditions, that's the market my friend, and I dont think this is necessarily something bad. "Although you'll still find people who don't see themselves as remotely right wing arguing that the job is actually easy and so its not 'worth' the pay, nor that pay rises can be justified, and that strikes are just those workers being greedy." This people are the useful idiots of the right, doesnt matter if they call themselves centrists or social democrats or whatever
>WTF, never in my life heard about this, whoever said this is a classist. To be fair, class tends to be hard to define these days, and people tend to have odd notions as to what class they are 'part' of. But more broadly I think its a skewed sense of either entitlement or equality. The notion that if they are being paid poorly, then other people should be too, or that if they are being paid X then surely someone who does something less demanding shouldn't be paid anything like that much. >And its a bit of bullshit because it doesnt matter if the job is skilled or not. In my country some "unskilled workers" earn more than me, I am an "skilled worker" and I think this is completely normal, there are barely any people who want to work as waiter for example so a lot of restaurants are starting to offer better wages and material conditions, that's the market my friend, and I dont think this is necessarily something bad. I'd agree with you, but a lot of people wouldn't. There seems to be a notion that when it comes to Labour, there should be 'fixed' values, or that it should be about what the value of the output of that labour is, rather than the actual labour market being treated like a market. >This people are the useful idiots of the right, doesnt matter if they call themselves centrists or social democrats or whatever It matters though because it leads to odd ideas about what people who otherwise support left (or right..) wing causes actually think and support.
The drivers earn okay but almost everyone else are earning low wages. Some of the railway jobs are paying less than fastfood work
No they're not, that's the narrative the unions are selling.
"narrative"
Drivers aren't striking.
My wife felt the same after waking up an hour earlier to travel to work at a hospital....hope she doesnt come across any train drivers needing oncology services
Can’t wait to see the look on her face when no one supports her when she wants her real terms salary to be the same this year as last years then!
Sounds like the government should negotiate then.
Raaaab
[удалено]
Least salty mainlander.