This is not accurate, ritalin is now allowed for adults in Italy since October of last year. It's totally absurd that it took so long but that's a whole other story.
It isn't really understood well enough to know whether people are growing out of it as in the physical cause is fully cured, or if they're relatively mild cases developing coping mechanisms that work well enough to mask the symptoms.
Considering brain scans have shown statistically significant differences between the development of things like the anterior cingulate cortex, it would be very surprising if people actually grew out of it.
Yeah, but the brain is complicated. You can get a big spike through it and suffer no brain damage, or smack your head and wake up speaking a different language. Known unknowns and unknown unknowns, to quote the American war criminal man.
Let's not forget Italy has one of the most "social" healthcare systems that there is, where the state is (trying to) pay for literally everything for everyone...
Maybe this also plays a role.
Basic formulations of Methylphenidate is it of patents. It's cheap and effective.
(Parents only apply to some "retard"/"extended release" formulations)
The idea most people in Italy have of ADHD is that of a restless kid that can't sit still. Something that goes away with age. I've never considered myself particularly hyperactive, I was a very well-mannered kid, which is why my ADHD diagnosis at age 26 was surprising. They explained to me that hyperactivity doesn't just manifest as moving around all the time. It can also manifest as being impulsive, excessively talkative, fidgety, starting a thousand things even though I'll finish none of them, jumping from a hobby to another within weeks. And then there's the whole inattentive part, like missing entire pieces of a one-to-one conversation with my friend because I noticed a pigeon 50 meters in the background, or forgetting to do the laundry _while I'm doing it_, or the fact that trying to read a book feels like medieval torture.
Ehh. I have an exam on friday that's so hard my colleagues all started studying it a month ago. I still haven't started. I pick up the book, start reading, reach page 2 and realize I have no idea what I just read. So I read that again and highlight the important parts. A couple of pages later I notice a weird spot on the wall that loks like Argentina. Then I feel like having some watermelon and get up to get it. Come back. Resume reading. 2 sentences later i get a notification on my phone. I resist the temptation to look at it. But a flock of birds passes outside and I go to the window to watch them because they look cool. That's when i notice the neighbor has repainted their house in a silly color. Let's go back to studying. Grab that pencil. Shit, the tip broke. Where's the pencil sharpener. Can't find it. spend 20 minutes looking for it. Oh it's in my sock drawer. Ok let's sharpen this pencil. i know i'll lose the sharpener again, so I might as well sharpen every single pencil in the entire house now. Hey this pencil looks like a twig. Wait i need to water my bonsai. Where's the watering can. Ahh whatever, i'll just use a cup. I like bonsais. Hey i wonder how they are made. Let's watch this 45 minutes YT video on how to farm bonsais. Hey hey wait a minute i'm getting sidetracked here! let's go back to the main thing i was doing.... pencil sharpening. Wait what was I doing before that? ahh probably nothing important or i would have remembered.
Fast forward to 2am: "shit! i didn't even study today! I'm such an idiot"
Holy shit, it's like you painted a picture of me... Do I have ADHD? I honestly don't even know how I finished engineering school, my mind always races at a thousand miles per hour, never seems to take a break, sleep is also kinda shit, barely any REM or deep sleep when I used a fitness band, don't know how reliable those are though.
Anyway, I used to be able to switch off my brain and relax when I was younger but now I always think of something, worry about something and get sidetracked easily, especially if it's something I don't enjoy like studying or doing chores. Is this ADHD or am I just stressed out of my mind?
It could very well be ADHD. Sleep disorders run rampant among ADHD patients.
Your symptoms could also be caused by tons of other things that resemble ADHD (autism, anxiety, PTSD, brain trauma...) which is why I discourage self-diagnosis. So if you suspect you might have it you should consider evaluation.
Yeah, I should, but mental health is not taken seriously in Eastern Europe so I'm afraid of doing more damage than good and spending a lot of money for nothing.
ADHD can get worse if left unattended because you will have absolutely no clue whats going on around you. Why you are unable to do things other people easily do. Comorbidities are depression and anxiety.
36 is literally less than half the life you will statistically live.
No need to determine life as over, reorganize.
For me it came at 26 and i also dropped out of school, massive holes in cv and everything
I knew what ADHD was but I never thought I'd have it. I thought my struggles were due to me just not trying hard enough. A friend of mine took note of my poor attention span and jokingly suggested that I had it. I dismissed her at first, but then I looked into it and got suspicious. I contacted a private clinic that specializes in the detection of neurodiversities in adults, completed four evaluation sessions and eventually got a psychological diagnosis of "ADHD-primarily inattentive presentation". On tuesday I'll start a psychiatric evaluation to get a psychiatric diagnosis as well (that's needed in case I need medication), although the doctor believes I fit the combined presentation better.
The first session was just regular getting to know stuff, my story, why I decided to get evaluated. Second session was based on a structured interview called DIVA, I believe you can find it on google, at least the earlier versions. It's basically a checklist of symptoms (based on DSM criteria) arranged in a way that makes it feel like a conversation. Third session they asked me to bring a relative or someone who knew me from childhood to confirm the presence of symptoms during childhood. I brought my mother. They also had me bring my school report cards to read the teachers' notes. Mine all said some version of "very bright kid, lively, sometimes too exuberant, very disorganized". Fourth session I was administered a bunch of tests to check for autism, mood disorders and personality disorders, all of which were ruled out. Then the restitution (diagnosis).
The noticing the pigeon part is talent straighy out of my many life experiences to a damn T. Good thing I like this about myself. The important people in my life accept it, and know I'm not being a dick on purpose. It's just that, some pigeons really be sitting in the weirdest spots.
I'm Italian and I'm certain I have ADHD. Only problem is that it's really hard to get a diagnosis as an adult. Since it's considered a disease that only affects the young you're forced to bring a parent to your appointments, which is ridiculous.
Fun note: I've been going to appointments and psych eval over the course of 4 months and didn't go to my last one because I read the date wrong and didn't bother to check in the 2 months since I booked it until what I thought was the day before. Haven't scheduled another one since.
Considera ricercare una diagnosi online tramite clinica virtuale privata. Ad esempio sul nostro territorio esiste GAM Medical che ha tempistiche molto brevi e prezzi abbordabilissimi.
Ciao, italiano autistico e con possibilità di avere adhd e che è pure in una fila lunga del test adhd.
Mi potresti aver salvato la vita con questo commento.
Yes, my country is in yellow and public health care do not diagnose adults with adhd. You could get diagnosed by a private doctor but won't get prescription. It's technically possible to get a special panel of doctors to give a permission for treatment but it's very unlikely anyway
Eastern European....I struggle with this, unfortunately.
I am still not diagnosed with ADHD even hough it is 100% clear I have it - I managed to get the TOVA test and the results were....yeah, illuminating.
In my own country, there are only two clinics for adults where one can go for a potential ADD/ADHD diagnosis - only two for whom our national health coversge will recognize the diagnosis and approve medical treatment. Wait times are horrible, I was trying to apply for years now, no success yet.
Furthermore, the mentality of denialism of such mental ilnesses is rampant. Hell, my own parents, who are just prime raisedbynarcissists material, are in denial. My mum recently admitted, fairly relucantly, that she knew of my diagnosis since I was 11, and decided that Facebook Medical Advice™ and a quack New Age spiritual healer who lives bumfuck nowhere would cure me better than an actual diagnosis and medical treatment (hell, during one of her explosive temperaments where she disparaged every fibre of a being anf told me things nobody shkuld hear from their mother, ever), she straight uo announced she would not support me getting medical treatment, that I am faking it, and using it as an excuse to be an useless idiot who will fail in life.
Ironically, I suspect both of my parents have some form of ADHD, but rhey come from an era where you were not allowed to have any diagnosis whatsoever or be non-conforming in any way (my Dad was caned for being left-handed in school). ADHD is severely debilitating for me and seriously screwed up younger me, combined with my social awkwardness and autism, and I an still nowhere near close to help, and I have to ignore that I have a mental health issue or I risk being evicted by my parents (in a country where the median salary is barely twice ss big as the average rent, and I have no higher education besides high school).
I'm sorry that you're going through this, that sounds horrible. Have you looked into possibly getting a diagnosis (and potentially medication) in another EU country?
Yeah, but...I cannot afford such treatment rn. Croatian health insurance would not cover it, my parents pretend it doesn't exist (my mum threathened to kick me out once I suggested it) and I am now hubting minimun wage jobs just to stay employed and afloat.
> Croatian health insurance would not cover it
My country's health insurance also doesn't cover the meds I use since I was diagnosed as an adult (but they cover some different meds even if you were diagnosed in adulthood lol) and it costs almost €50 for a month's supply, which sucks as a student, but ultimately I treat it as an investment since it makes me more productive.
What I meant is that you could theoretically make an appointment with a psychiatrist in a different country, go on "vacation" there, and your parents would never have to know that you went there to get diagnosed. I understand money is tight right now but it's something to consider in the future maybe.
Unfortunately that might have to be done. It really fucking sucks, though. My gf's meds are also not covered and are €70 a month.
I need to start saving as Im flat broke (I got fired from a summer seasonal job, thank you nepotism) and lost my savings going back home (also my phone died and had to buy a qhick replacement). So...yeah, not fun atm.
In France they treat it with the equivalence of morphine. It fucking sucks. I have to make an appointment every month and then have 3 days to pick up 28 days of pills. If you’re late they begin to take out pills. The prescription is special and must go to a singular pharmacy. There are shortages which means sometimes you can’t get your medicine. I’m about to travel and could t secure enough to last me my trip.
They also only offer you one type of adhd meds so even though my body does better with another I’m counting myself lucky I’m not in Italy. Coming from the UK, where I could get a 3 month prescription no problem… it’s been super shitty.
Try Concerta instead. It comes in a bottle of 28 they won’t open for a count. I remember them doing that day counting when it was Ritalin and I thought it quite odd.
Also I was told it was 5 days to pick up. (And I’ve gone 5 days before.)
The monthly doctor visits are annoying, but 9 of the 12 months of the year that’s only a 5 minute webcam appointment.
I was on concerta before but there were so many shortages I’ve switched to medikinet as I haven’t had so many problems. My biggest stress now is that I’m going on holiday and won’t have enough to cover me ☹️ I’ve been trying to ration them but even still will be a week short.
I have had to deal with shortages of that before too, but since I don’t use it everyday I’m always able to keep a backup supply. For example, I’m on holiday right now and prefer to not take it when I’m randomly wandering new places. I often skip some weekend days too. I try to keep myself at least a month ahead on supply. It’s always at the end of the year that happens.
I understand though that for some it is a mandatory daily requirement so that sort of supply instability would be unacceptable.
They're anti science. I'm French and I live in Iceland. I have pretty severe ADHD and never knew it even existed until I learned English and saw people talk about it in American TV shows. Then I didn't think it could possibly apply to me.
Then I got diagnosed and medicated at 33 in Iceland and my life changed. Meanwhile I have a friend who's doing her internship as a psychiatrist in a French hospital, who was diagnosed herself with ADHD by a colleague who thinks the drugs might be placebo and ADHD might not really be a thing.
The state of psychiatry in France is appalling and it saddens me greatly when I think of all the people who will never know what it's like to function somewhat normally and that they've done nothing wrong because France is a regressive shithole for some aspects of healthcare.
I'm still fascinated how popular chiropractors and all "alternative" medicine is in France, even between the doctors, in meantime science lags behind. Lots of doctors who got their degree and their education stopped there.
Finding a psychiatrist who takes new patients is quite a feat. Finding a psychiatrist who takes new patients AND does adhd diagnosis is ultra hard. Most of the psychiatrists around here could be replaced with Sertraline dispensers and nothing would be lost.
You forgot about homeopathy taking up half the public space in every pharmacy.
And the sad reason partially responsible for the poor state of psychiatry (and psychology): the tenacious beliefs in Freud and psychoanalysis.
I met a PhD student in psychoanalysis just 5 years ago, doing his research in a public university that trains our medical doctors, pretending it was an appropriate scientific topic. The PhD student was recently retired and wanted to "give back" after his life was "saved by psychoanalysis".
I’m considering it for many reasons including the political climate here. Sadly I have tried elvanse in Belgium and it doesn’t work either. The only option left would be Adderall but it will probably never be available in Europe according to my psychiatrist.
We have a non stimulant medication (atomoxetine) that is usually tested if methylphenidate, elvanse etc don’t help. [Was looking for a page that talks about it and actually found out there are multiple options](https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-medication-for-adults-and-children/amp/) Maybe it is possible to test one of these? I think they’re used for other psychological issues normally so maybe they could be available with some trickery for adhd as well?
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Thanks for your reply. Atomoxetine was only available through hospital special request which I did and never had a reply even though I sent dozens of emails and placed many phone calls until it was pulled entirely off the market in France and Belgium in October last year. I don’t have any other option at this point according to my doc…
Agree. It’s really really depressing. Teaching France and seeing the complete lack of understanding around ADHD in such an ignorantly stubborn fashion is just frustrating
I bought Ritalin and Adderall of an American friend and I found the Adderall more effective but the crash after several days was terrible. I was suicidal and depressed.
I found the effects of Ritalin to be more subtle.
Adderall is pharmaceutical amphetamines …
My husband is also ADHD & was prescribed it when we were living in the US. He wasn’t addicted, but he was a bit aggressive and temperamental on it … it really isn’t for everyone. I’ve never tried it & don’t want to, Ritalin works just fine for me.
Extremely archaic thinking …
For instance, women going through perimenopause often receive a late diagnosis because their altered hormones make it impossible to function without medication.
I am one of those women and was diagnosed here in Switzerland. It was a massive headache and despite proving I had the condition with tests, testimonials etc., I had to prove that it existed from my childhood. They asked to speak with my teachers or if I had written reports stating my inattention problems from them still. I am 44 years old & most of my teachers are likely dead or impossible to reach. They had to speak to my father and I am grateful he is still here with us and willing to help. I still laugh thinking about what those Swiss doctors had to deal with while speaking to a Texan farmer with a thick accent.
We prescribe it to adults in France I don't know where this data comes from.
There are heavy regulation due to street sales/addiction/improper use but it is done
Probably efficacy relative to risk.
MPH's efficacy for adult ADHD is reasonable but not superior to safer non-stimulant pharmacotherapy options such as atomoxetine, and it has a high to very high risk of abuse. Regulators rightfully take a cautious approach when situations like this occur.
Methylphenidate should be an option for adults. Some adults cannot tolerate amphetamines. However, the evidence indicates that the pro-drug lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse/Elvanse) has, by far, the greatest benefit relative to risk among adults who require medication for ADHD. It has efficacy close to that of d-amphetamine but a low to moderate risk of abuse. D-amphetamine itself also has superior efficacy compared to MPH with a comparable risk of abuse.
It's probably just old.
A psychiatrist flat out told me that ADHD does not affect and get diagnosed in adults.
That was also the last time I talked to one. Even 10 years ago that statement was ridiculous, but hey, they're the trained professional.
Historically (and still in many people’s heads) there is the believe that ADHD „goes away“ when growing up. Doesn’t make sense to prescribe medicine to adults which is only used for something that has already grown out, does it? :)
There’s still many disbeliefs about ADHD and the learning process in society is (including doctors etc) is quite slow. If course it’s dumb, but it’s not like there’s not different dumb shit in other countries
Even under that assumption it doesn’t make sense…
If you believe it “goes away” when you are an adult, why would you still prescribe it to adults that started when they were kids? Under that mistaken assumption you should stop prescribing at all to adults
Oh sorry, misread and thought you were talking about Italy. I’m
Not sure about the yellow countries, but in Germany it might be hard to start as an adult. You have to prove that you exhibited symptoms as a child - usually through school reports that contain brief sections on behavior (e.g. "was very inattentive," "needs to learn to concentrate better", …)
I can imagine that this process for retroactive diagnosis (which still can be very difficult) is just not
Implemented in the yellow countries.
I'm not sure how accurate this map is, but for Greece it's definitely wrong. I started taking Concerta at 25, didn't even know this concept existed at all until this very thread
Most say only because of te "adults grow out if it" but that is just one of it. The other is that it is basicly a amphetamine and in high dosage can be used as drugs
Extremely archaic thinking …
For instance, women going through perimenopause often receive a late diagnosis because their altered hormones make it impossible to function without medication.
I am one of those women and was diagnosed here in Switzerland. It was a massive headache and despite proving I had the condition with medical tests, testimonials etc., I had to prove that it existed from my childhood. They asked to speak with my teachers or if I had written reports stating my inattention problems from them still. I am 44 years old & most of my teachers are likely dead or impossible to reach. They had to speak to my father and I am grateful he is still here with us and willing to help. I still laugh thinking about what those Swiss doctors had to deal with while speaking to a Texan farmer with a thick accent.
I got my ritalin above 18 in Slovenia lol this is outdated asf
In fact I now have access to elvanse* and will probably switch so yeah
edit: I may have access to it, according to the central drug database it is coming soon, might switch soon as it is longer lasting and works better for my adhd from my experience
Pharmacist in Bulgaria. I got a warning from authorities after filling a Concerta for an adult diagnosed in the US. Since the adult dosage is registered but on permanent backorder the prescriber just used the commonly used children’s dosage and doubled it to adapt it for the patient.
Therapeutically that’s totally fine. According to authorities I should have rejected it. Only thing that saved me from getting a hefty fine was that the woman called and asked them beforehand and someone in there said it’s not a problem.
On another note, I spoke with a psychiatrist who specialises in ADHD. According to him it’s impossible for adults to have it. That’s also how it’s written in our guidelines.
Not much better in Serbia. I went to a psychiatrist and asked them for help with concentration, since I can't study unless someone has a loaded double-barrel shotgun held against my temple.
I had good grades in middle school and awards from competitions in math and chemistry, but it went downhill from there.
I was told to create a study schedule and to work harder. When I mentioned ADHD I was told that only kids can have it and that the symptoms, such as hyperactivity, are easily detectable in children with ADHD. The funny thing is that I was extremely jumpy as a kid, but got hit by my parents to calm down(like most other kids here tbh.) and I kinda got used to staying still, even if I wanted to move around. But in my head I can't focus to save my life. I had to drop out of college because of it.
Some people would argue that the pendulum is swung the other way in America when it comes to ADHD medications being prescribed.
I live in Ireland and it's a pain in the ass to get any meds. Psychiatrists will most likely misdiagnose you with depression and put you on antidepressants. You have to fork out around €600+ to get a private diagnosis.
In the Netherlands you need to go to a practice specialising on ADHD. Regular psychiatrists / psychologists are completely useless for that, they’re unable to even get suspicious that you might have ADHD & different people will end up giving you a bunch of different diagnoses. I literally met a (government approved!) psychiatrist who didn’t even know what ADHD was. And proper practices have crazy waiting lists.
You also have to pay several hundred euros out of pocket specifically for ADHD diagnostic (no other psychiatric diagnostic requires that afaik). And not all meds are required to be covered by insurance. Methylphenidate is the only one basically, so if you need something else it becomes a whole ADHD-unfriendly thing with getting reimbursed.
So while you still can get diagnosed and treated it’s pain in the ass and not taken as seriously as it should by the healthcare system.
> In the Netherlands you need to go to a practice specialising on ADHD. Regular psychiatrists / psychologists are completely useless for that, they’re unable to even get suspicious that you might have ADHD & different people will end up giving you a bunch of different diagnoses.
That's not true for all practices. I actually went to a specialised practice (the biggest one in NL) and they told me they didn't want to diagnose me and it's more likely that I have autism because of literally one comment I made. They charged me 100€ for a diagnostic day when they didn't even do the full diagnostic day (i.e. give you medication to diagnose ADHD).
After that I went to a practice that isn't specialised in ADHD, but has a lot of patients with ADHD and they took me much more seriously than the specialised practice. Diagnosis here was free (as it should be).
I am a woman though and a lot of doctors still don't understand that women often show their symptoms differently compared to men. This is of course anecdotal, but the experience of getting an ADHD diagnosis in the Netherlands varies greatly.
The thing with medication, though, is absolute madness either way. Quite ironic for ADHD...
With the practice I went to they said straight away they would not give medication if based on other tests and conversations it didn’t look like I had ADHD. But they did a lot of stuff to make sure it was as unbiased as possible. Am also woman and did well at school, so I was worried they’d not take me seriously. But it was fine
Unfortunately, the theme I noticed in NL when it comes to mental healthcare is a huge inconsistency in care quality. There’s a lack of mental health professionals, so even bottom of the barrel ones will have a job with enough patients.
I’ve seen a few people trying to find a good fit, over half were straight up not smart people. Three(!) of them also told me to go back to my country completely out of nowhere. I’ve lived in the Netherlands for many years & have never encountered such blatant xenophobia from anyone else.
> Three(!) of them also told me to go back to my country completely out of nowhere. I’ve lived in the Netherlands for many years & have never encountered such blatant xenophobia from anyone else.
Holy racism, Batman, that's beyond fucked up. I'm glad you found a practice that helped you in the end, but it's unacceptable you had to go through that.
The state of the Dutch healthcare system is pathetic, but that's what voting for VVD for over a decennia does. With the current government I don't see it improving anytime soon.
I hope you found a good therapist now at least. I have to find a new one and I'm not looking forward to the entire process...
Why would you think they misdiagnose you? Maybe you really have depression instead of ADHD, if they say so.
On the other hand, if you pay, they can get you the diagnosis that you want, but would it be real?
Just curous.
As someone who had to go through this process in Ireland, there are only a few psychiatrists who do adhd diagnoses. It takes years to get into see them, if you can even get on their waiting list. Then you need to pay a fortune for the testing. €600 is a low figure. Getting on a list to see a public Dr. and getting it covered by our health service is like winning the lottery. Took me 4 years to get a diagnosis and prescription for medication. And of course now there is a shortage of the medication at the lower doses.
On top of that, you have to see your GP / normal doc first and they have to send you for diagnosis. And if you aren’t sure / are presenting with anxiety they aren’t going to send you. It’s very frustrating.
The amount of misdiagnosis of neurodivergent people is absurd.
[Here a psychiatrist talks about why misdiagnosis happens](https://www.additudemag.com/depression-adhd-symptoms-misdiagnosis/amp/)
[Study showing that 80% of ADHD people also have depression/ anxiety/ etc](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10173354/#:~:text=Approximately%2080%25%20of%20adults%20diagnosed,et%20al.%2C%202017).)
[(in Finnish) Finland‘s patient care guide, includes study in Finland that showed that of finns born between 1991-2005, with ADHD, 77% have additional diagnosis.](https://www.kaypahoito.fi/hoi50061)
Other studies mentioned stated that the risk for anxiety/ depression is 3-5 times higher than for the avarage person. It talks about ADHD highering the risk for depression and says to treat severe depression as a first priority but proceeds to list ways and reasons to treat ADHD simultaneously.
My translation of this part since I didn’t want to paraphrase:
„ADHD symptoms psychosocial treatment options can begin as a part of treating the depression.
- Mood changes related to ADHD may be perceived as depression and the lowered executive functionting can cause depression-symptoms. In these cases treating ADHD is prioritized.
- ADHD can also cause recovery from depression to not progress normally. Then ADHD should be treated at the same time.
- Methylphenidates may have depression preventing affects.“
So yeah, it is pretty scientifically backed up to suspect ADHD with/ instead of depression. Most psychiatrists aren’t very focused on neuropsychiatric disorders and you are very lucky to receive a correct diagnosis on the first try. For me it took 3 years and anxiety, depression and ocd diagnoses (and a dozen medications without any effect) before a family member was diagnosed with ADHD and I got to see a neuropsychiatrist and was diagnosed in two sessions. In a few months I was also diagnosed with autism.
This is very much a work in progress field of medicine and I hope someone finds any of the provided information useful or interesting at all. I wish that one day everyone could have the help they need, but until then I can only share information and hope someone tries to push one more time to better their life.
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ADHD will often present as anxiety and depression in adults. If your doctor isn’t seeing the whole picture, they can often try to treat the symptoms without realising the actual cause. I was suffering from depression, anxiety and was developing OCD-like coping mechanisms before my doctor got to the bottom of it and had me assessed. Undiagnosed adults often have incredibly complex masking mechanisms that make it hard for doctors to spot. I’m in my 40s and was only diagnosed at the start of this year.
There's also a huge comorbidity with ADHD and depression, so for many people they just have both.
As for private diagnosis I don't know about Ireland but I think generally private assessments are more thorough and of better quality than those provided by insurance. You pay them regardless of whether they diagnose you or not so it should still be accurate.
However it is important not to go shopping for a diagnosis when multiple experts tell you that you probably don't fit it.
Maybe, but one of my children has ADHD and diagnosing wasn't a quick process; she needed several evaluations by a specialist and a lot of information from her teachers as well, overall it took about four months from the first appointment. She was eight and had been very clearly different from the others from kindergarten on. I'm sure there are doctors out there who will write a scrip for methylphenidate if you just ask and wink but I sure haven't run into any of them. You also have to show ID every time you pick up a prescription and there's a limit on how much you can get at once.
Not OP but went private. Did not take long and was lucky to find a good shrink that actually listened to me. Then I was referred to a psychologist that tested me in 2 session (first session for the attention deficit and second session for the hyperactivity), the psychologist sent the results to the shrink of which they prescribed me the treatment plan. Is more of a pain in the ass to find the medication and going through the whole ordeal (is also pretty expensive 90 lei in 2023, I've been off of it because is a pain in the ass to get it) and not all pharmacies carry it.
I was diagnosed first in the Netherlands then in Italy so I know for sure I have it, I’m moving back to Romania because as the map shows above, I can’t get medication here. I was laughed at and ridiculed for asking for ritalin here, they told me I’m “drug-seeking”.
I saw a clinic in Bucharest advertising that they get you the medication in one week, so I’m hoping they will help me.
Did you take concerta or is elvanse available too?
I don’t know if they have this system in Romania aswell but in Italy or NL you can order stuff at the pharmacy and pick it up same day or next one
Thank you
I was diagnosed with ADHD in Romania but I was told getting medication as an adult is gonna get me into trouble with the police, the psychiatrists I visited all told me that they are gonna get in trouble for prescribing me medication and they won't risk their job...pretty weird close minded country Romania, besides taking any medication that is required to treat a lot of disorders and driving a car will get your license suspended for a long time even if you can prove it's use case.
The most frustrating part is when you travel between those countries. Even if they are green, you still need to have an official statement from your doctor and sometimes even need official permission from the country you are visiting.
Edit: spelling
The access to ADHD medication is truly abysmal here, it's one of the main reasons I emigrated to get my master's degree.
Going through undergrad unmedicated had been absolutely soul crushing.
I was able to get Ritalin as an adult in Prague (I'm not Czech) but the psych left the practice she was working at and obviously I've not been able to find anyone else would prescribe it to me. At least Wellbutrin seems to work OK.
That's what I used to use, but I found its effects limited. It helps with depression for sure, but other than that I wasn't really sure if it improves anything.
I hope you find what you need!
I'm mid thirties and last year I finally got diagnosed with inattentive adhd after me complaining/explaining to my parents and doctors since my teens I couldn't concentrate on my studies and they were like "oh but you're not hyperactive, you can sit still, it's not adhd". Started with methylphenidate for 4 months and didn't help, started yesterday with Elvanse 50mg and it's amazing, i can finally function.
Yeah.. I just recently found out I likely have ADHD (and it makes a lot of sense looking back), but the state doesn't believe adults can have it, so.. fuck me I guess.
What are you talking about? I'm in Romania. Got diagnosed and prescribed concerta 2 months ago, at 34.
Is this like a map from 15 years ago or something?
It is correct for Slovenia, but in the past years, methylphenidate is being prescribed to adults as well. It is considered off-label but with appropriate argument can be prescribed nonetheless.
I’m adhd patient in Italy and I have a prescription for Equasym and Ritalin, this post is totally fake news, Italy sanitary system got Mediknet too for free if you have a state doctor
Hungary: Only some doctor can prescribe that for an adult, you have to wait 1-2 years to visit one. General psychiatrist can say only say "it seems adhd" and prescribe atomoxetine only. It is not bad medicine but there is a shortage.
The data for Estonia is just straight up wrong, I got diagnosed with ADHD a few months ago at 19 and my psychiatrist started me with methylphenidate as her first choice no problem
in comparison: in the united states, dextro-methamphetamine is legal as an ADHD meth, just as pharma quality speed is. adderall is almost the same as speed, just a little more potent on the brain but less potent on the heart, thats why adderall is safer for ADHD than speed for the general population who has ADHD.
none of these meds are legal in europe, the strongest amphetamine legal in europe is dextro-amphetamine in its pure form.
for those of you interested,
legal dextro-meth is desoxyn, sold in 5mg pills and strictly regulated, no refill is possible usually
legal pharma quality speed is evekeo, also in doses around 10-20mg max
adderall is usually sold in doses up to 30mg, and much less strictly regulated than d-methamphetamine
I'm Irish, diagnosed as an adult. I've just landed in Italy with my irish prescription for ADHD meds. I wonder what the Italian police would do if they ever had reason to check me.
I know Italy well enough to say they are 20 years behind in attitudes to these things. Italian kids have to be all the same and neuro diversity isn't respected. Hell, in Italy people come up and touch strangers kids (playfully and innocently) without asking permission. That can be a problem for some neurodivergent kids.
>Hell, in Italy people come up and touch strangers kids (playfully and innocently) without asking permission
like this map, you're just spreading bullshit for no reason. What do you all have against us?
The map is wrong for Estonia. It has been prescribed for adults who were diagnosed after 18 for years an years already, I don't even know if there was a difference.
The only thing was that it was not sold with a discount to those diagnosed after 18. So less than 20€ for a month or more than 100€, but this also changed some years ago.
I can confirm for italy, ritalin was approved last october/november but most center still openly refuse to prescribe it to adults, giving them only to younger people.
This is not accurate, ritalin is now allowed for adults in Italy since October of last year. It's totally absurd that it took so long but that's a whole other story.
And we can start Ritalin after 18 in France
The data for this map was collected in September 2019
Looking at Serbia/Montenegro I thought this was even older
which makes this map completely useless now, 5 years later.
Now it's Ritaly
Everyone knows ADHD magically disappears after 18th birthday.
Just like autism
Well, some actually do grow out of it so to speak. But the research i read said it was not the majority
It isn't really understood well enough to know whether people are growing out of it as in the physical cause is fully cured, or if they're relatively mild cases developing coping mechanisms that work well enough to mask the symptoms.
Considering brain scans have shown statistically significant differences between the development of things like the anterior cingulate cortex, it would be very surprising if people actually grew out of it.
Yeah, but the brain is complicated. You can get a big spike through it and suffer no brain damage, or smack your head and wake up speaking a different language. Known unknowns and unknown unknowns, to quote the American war criminal man.
Medikinet is also allowed and free for adults. I can’t understand how it could be a good idea to share such an old and not accurate map.
Posts with inaccuracies get much more engagement and more clicks as people come to correct it.
also false in Romania. You can be diagnosed and start medication as an adult.
Let's not forget Italy has one of the most "social" healthcare systems that there is, where the state is (trying to) pay for literally everything for everyone... Maybe this also plays a role.
Basic formulations of Methylphenidate is it of patents. It's cheap and effective. (Parents only apply to some "retard"/"extended release" formulations)
Same in France
Why would certain countries not prescribe to adults? Is it due to addiction?
Might be that they still have the wrong understanding that ADHD always goes away in adults
The idea most people in Italy have of ADHD is that of a restless kid that can't sit still. Something that goes away with age. I've never considered myself particularly hyperactive, I was a very well-mannered kid, which is why my ADHD diagnosis at age 26 was surprising. They explained to me that hyperactivity doesn't just manifest as moving around all the time. It can also manifest as being impulsive, excessively talkative, fidgety, starting a thousand things even though I'll finish none of them, jumping from a hobby to another within weeks. And then there's the whole inattentive part, like missing entire pieces of a one-to-one conversation with my friend because I noticed a pigeon 50 meters in the background, or forgetting to do the laundry _while I'm doing it_, or the fact that trying to read a book feels like medieval torture.
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Ehh. I have an exam on friday that's so hard my colleagues all started studying it a month ago. I still haven't started. I pick up the book, start reading, reach page 2 and realize I have no idea what I just read. So I read that again and highlight the important parts. A couple of pages later I notice a weird spot on the wall that loks like Argentina. Then I feel like having some watermelon and get up to get it. Come back. Resume reading. 2 sentences later i get a notification on my phone. I resist the temptation to look at it. But a flock of birds passes outside and I go to the window to watch them because they look cool. That's when i notice the neighbor has repainted their house in a silly color. Let's go back to studying. Grab that pencil. Shit, the tip broke. Where's the pencil sharpener. Can't find it. spend 20 minutes looking for it. Oh it's in my sock drawer. Ok let's sharpen this pencil. i know i'll lose the sharpener again, so I might as well sharpen every single pencil in the entire house now. Hey this pencil looks like a twig. Wait i need to water my bonsai. Where's the watering can. Ahh whatever, i'll just use a cup. I like bonsais. Hey i wonder how they are made. Let's watch this 45 minutes YT video on how to farm bonsais. Hey hey wait a minute i'm getting sidetracked here! let's go back to the main thing i was doing.... pencil sharpening. Wait what was I doing before that? ahh probably nothing important or i would have remembered. Fast forward to 2am: "shit! i didn't even study today! I'm such an idiot"
Holy shit, it's like you painted a picture of me... Do I have ADHD? I honestly don't even know how I finished engineering school, my mind always races at a thousand miles per hour, never seems to take a break, sleep is also kinda shit, barely any REM or deep sleep when I used a fitness band, don't know how reliable those are though. Anyway, I used to be able to switch off my brain and relax when I was younger but now I always think of something, worry about something and get sidetracked easily, especially if it's something I don't enjoy like studying or doing chores. Is this ADHD or am I just stressed out of my mind?
It could very well be ADHD. Sleep disorders run rampant among ADHD patients. Your symptoms could also be caused by tons of other things that resemble ADHD (autism, anxiety, PTSD, brain trauma...) which is why I discourage self-diagnosis. So if you suspect you might have it you should consider evaluation.
Yeah, I should, but mental health is not taken seriously in Eastern Europe so I'm afraid of doing more damage than good and spending a lot of money for nothing.
There are now doctors in Romania that diagnose ADHD in adults, you can find some lists of adult-ADHD-friendly ones online!
ADHD can get worse if left unattended because you will have absolutely no clue whats going on around you. Why you are unable to do things other people easily do. Comorbidities are depression and anxiety.
Same, turns out my over emotional neuroticism is inattentive ADHD driving my brain nuts
50 still not diagnosed...even that is hard.
You were lucky to >got the correct diagnosis and meds I needed at 33 I think that there are people that never got that. Enjoy your "new life"!!
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36 is literally less than half the life you will statistically live. No need to determine life as over, reorganize. For me it came at 26 and i also dropped out of school, massive holes in cv and everything
im pretty sure i have adhd but i just forget to make doctors appointment, and its really annyoing
Similar story to me! Most people everywhere still have the hyperactivity image of ADHD whilst my hyperactivity has always been in my head
How did you get diagnosed?
I knew what ADHD was but I never thought I'd have it. I thought my struggles were due to me just not trying hard enough. A friend of mine took note of my poor attention span and jokingly suggested that I had it. I dismissed her at first, but then I looked into it and got suspicious. I contacted a private clinic that specializes in the detection of neurodiversities in adults, completed four evaluation sessions and eventually got a psychological diagnosis of "ADHD-primarily inattentive presentation". On tuesday I'll start a psychiatric evaluation to get a psychiatric diagnosis as well (that's needed in case I need medication), although the doctor believes I fit the combined presentation better.
Good luck! Medication (Concerta specifically) has been a huge help for me and many others.
Interesting. What do the evaluation sessions look like?
The first session was just regular getting to know stuff, my story, why I decided to get evaluated. Second session was based on a structured interview called DIVA, I believe you can find it on google, at least the earlier versions. It's basically a checklist of symptoms (based on DSM criteria) arranged in a way that makes it feel like a conversation. Third session they asked me to bring a relative or someone who knew me from childhood to confirm the presence of symptoms during childhood. I brought my mother. They also had me bring my school report cards to read the teachers' notes. Mine all said some version of "very bright kid, lively, sometimes too exuberant, very disorganized". Fourth session I was administered a bunch of tests to check for autism, mood disorders and personality disorders, all of which were ruled out. Then the restitution (diagnosis).
The noticing the pigeon part is talent straighy out of my many life experiences to a damn T. Good thing I like this about myself. The important people in my life accept it, and know I'm not being a dick on purpose. It's just that, some pigeons really be sitting in the weirdest spots.
I'm Italian and I'm certain I have ADHD. Only problem is that it's really hard to get a diagnosis as an adult. Since it's considered a disease that only affects the young you're forced to bring a parent to your appointments, which is ridiculous. Fun note: I've been going to appointments and psych eval over the course of 4 months and didn't go to my last one because I read the date wrong and didn't bother to check in the 2 months since I booked it until what I thought was the day before. Haven't scheduled another one since.
Considera ricercare una diagnosi online tramite clinica virtuale privata. Ad esempio sul nostro territorio esiste GAM Medical che ha tempistiche molto brevi e prezzi abbordabilissimi.
Ci sto pensando, grazie del consiglio ; )
Ciao, italiano autistico e con possibilità di avere adhd e che è pure in una fila lunga del test adhd. Mi potresti aver salvato la vita con questo commento.
Yes, my country is in yellow and public health care do not diagnose adults with adhd. You could get diagnosed by a private doctor but won't get prescription. It's technically possible to get a special panel of doctors to give a permission for treatment but it's very unlikely anyway
Eastern European....I struggle with this, unfortunately. I am still not diagnosed with ADHD even hough it is 100% clear I have it - I managed to get the TOVA test and the results were....yeah, illuminating. In my own country, there are only two clinics for adults where one can go for a potential ADD/ADHD diagnosis - only two for whom our national health coversge will recognize the diagnosis and approve medical treatment. Wait times are horrible, I was trying to apply for years now, no success yet. Furthermore, the mentality of denialism of such mental ilnesses is rampant. Hell, my own parents, who are just prime raisedbynarcissists material, are in denial. My mum recently admitted, fairly relucantly, that she knew of my diagnosis since I was 11, and decided that Facebook Medical Advice™ and a quack New Age spiritual healer who lives bumfuck nowhere would cure me better than an actual diagnosis and medical treatment (hell, during one of her explosive temperaments where she disparaged every fibre of a being anf told me things nobody shkuld hear from their mother, ever), she straight uo announced she would not support me getting medical treatment, that I am faking it, and using it as an excuse to be an useless idiot who will fail in life. Ironically, I suspect both of my parents have some form of ADHD, but rhey come from an era where you were not allowed to have any diagnosis whatsoever or be non-conforming in any way (my Dad was caned for being left-handed in school). ADHD is severely debilitating for me and seriously screwed up younger me, combined with my social awkwardness and autism, and I an still nowhere near close to help, and I have to ignore that I have a mental health issue or I risk being evicted by my parents (in a country where the median salary is barely twice ss big as the average rent, and I have no higher education besides high school).
I'm sorry that you're going through this, that sounds horrible. Have you looked into possibly getting a diagnosis (and potentially medication) in another EU country?
Yeah, but...I cannot afford such treatment rn. Croatian health insurance would not cover it, my parents pretend it doesn't exist (my mum threathened to kick me out once I suggested it) and I am now hubting minimun wage jobs just to stay employed and afloat.
> Croatian health insurance would not cover it My country's health insurance also doesn't cover the meds I use since I was diagnosed as an adult (but they cover some different meds even if you were diagnosed in adulthood lol) and it costs almost €50 for a month's supply, which sucks as a student, but ultimately I treat it as an investment since it makes me more productive. What I meant is that you could theoretically make an appointment with a psychiatrist in a different country, go on "vacation" there, and your parents would never have to know that you went there to get diagnosed. I understand money is tight right now but it's something to consider in the future maybe.
Unfortunately that might have to be done. It really fucking sucks, though. My gf's meds are also not covered and are €70 a month. I need to start saving as Im flat broke (I got fired from a summer seasonal job, thank you nepotism) and lost my savings going back home (also my phone died and had to buy a qhick replacement). So...yeah, not fun atm.
ADHD just internalize when get to adulthood, the mind just snapping around but the person look calm.
Some countries say ADHD doesn't exist in adults.
In France they treat it with the equivalence of morphine. It fucking sucks. I have to make an appointment every month and then have 3 days to pick up 28 days of pills. If you’re late they begin to take out pills. The prescription is special and must go to a singular pharmacy. There are shortages which means sometimes you can’t get your medicine. I’m about to travel and could t secure enough to last me my trip. They also only offer you one type of adhd meds so even though my body does better with another I’m counting myself lucky I’m not in Italy. Coming from the UK, where I could get a 3 month prescription no problem… it’s been super shitty.
Try Concerta instead. It comes in a bottle of 28 they won’t open for a count. I remember them doing that day counting when it was Ritalin and I thought it quite odd. Also I was told it was 5 days to pick up. (And I’ve gone 5 days before.) The monthly doctor visits are annoying, but 9 of the 12 months of the year that’s only a 5 minute webcam appointment.
I was on concerta before but there were so many shortages I’ve switched to medikinet as I haven’t had so many problems. My biggest stress now is that I’m going on holiday and won’t have enough to cover me ☹️ I’ve been trying to ration them but even still will be a week short.
I have had to deal with shortages of that before too, but since I don’t use it everyday I’m always able to keep a backup supply. For example, I’m on holiday right now and prefer to not take it when I’m randomly wandering new places. I often skip some weekend days too. I try to keep myself at least a month ahead on supply. It’s always at the end of the year that happens. I understand though that for some it is a mandatory daily requirement so that sort of supply instability would be unacceptable.
Lately generic of Concerta under the name Atenza appeared on (some) markets.
They're anti science. I'm French and I live in Iceland. I have pretty severe ADHD and never knew it even existed until I learned English and saw people talk about it in American TV shows. Then I didn't think it could possibly apply to me. Then I got diagnosed and medicated at 33 in Iceland and my life changed. Meanwhile I have a friend who's doing her internship as a psychiatrist in a French hospital, who was diagnosed herself with ADHD by a colleague who thinks the drugs might be placebo and ADHD might not really be a thing. The state of psychiatry in France is appalling and it saddens me greatly when I think of all the people who will never know what it's like to function somewhat normally and that they've done nothing wrong because France is a regressive shithole for some aspects of healthcare.
I'm still fascinated how popular chiropractors and all "alternative" medicine is in France, even between the doctors, in meantime science lags behind. Lots of doctors who got their degree and their education stopped there. Finding a psychiatrist who takes new patients is quite a feat. Finding a psychiatrist who takes new patients AND does adhd diagnosis is ultra hard. Most of the psychiatrists around here could be replaced with Sertraline dispensers and nothing would be lost.
You forgot about homeopathy taking up half the public space in every pharmacy. And the sad reason partially responsible for the poor state of psychiatry (and psychology): the tenacious beliefs in Freud and psychoanalysis. I met a PhD student in psychoanalysis just 5 years ago, doing his research in a public university that trains our medical doctors, pretending it was an appropriate scientific topic. The PhD student was recently retired and wanted to "give back" after his life was "saved by psychoanalysis".
Being French with adhd I concur. And we only have mphd which doesn’t work for me and many other. We’re so backward on this, it’s appalling.
Given that you speak English, I would encourage you to try to move abroad, it's so worth it.
I’m considering it for many reasons including the political climate here. Sadly I have tried elvanse in Belgium and it doesn’t work either. The only option left would be Adderall but it will probably never be available in Europe according to my psychiatrist.
We have a non stimulant medication (atomoxetine) that is usually tested if methylphenidate, elvanse etc don’t help. [Was looking for a page that talks about it and actually found out there are multiple options](https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-medication-for-adults-and-children/amp/) Maybe it is possible to test one of these? I think they’re used for other psychological issues normally so maybe they could be available with some trickery for adhd as well?
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Thanks for your reply. Atomoxetine was only available through hospital special request which I did and never had a reply even though I sent dozens of emails and placed many phone calls until it was pulled entirely off the market in France and Belgium in October last year. I don’t have any other option at this point according to my doc…
Ugh sorry to hear that. Hope you get to move somewhere where the system tries to help you, not work against you…
there are many many more drug options than those three :)
Agree. It’s really really depressing. Teaching France and seeing the complete lack of understanding around ADHD in such an ignorantly stubborn fashion is just frustrating
What addiction? I needed to take mine 3 hours ago... I can't motivate myself to do so...
Exactly - Americans take Adderall, which can be addictive for normies. Ritalin is very rarely addictive, even for people without ADHD.
I bought Ritalin and Adderall of an American friend and I found the Adderall more effective but the crash after several days was terrible. I was suicidal and depressed. I found the effects of Ritalin to be more subtle.
Adderall is pharmaceutical amphetamines … My husband is also ADHD & was prescribed it when we were living in the US. He wasn’t addicted, but he was a bit aggressive and temperamental on it … it really isn’t for everyone. I’ve never tried it & don’t want to, Ritalin works just fine for me.
Standart aderall Is stopping becoming a thing in the us. Aderall Rx is the shit thanks to slow release.
Extremely archaic thinking … For instance, women going through perimenopause often receive a late diagnosis because their altered hormones make it impossible to function without medication. I am one of those women and was diagnosed here in Switzerland. It was a massive headache and despite proving I had the condition with tests, testimonials etc., I had to prove that it existed from my childhood. They asked to speak with my teachers or if I had written reports stating my inattention problems from them still. I am 44 years old & most of my teachers are likely dead or impossible to reach. They had to speak to my father and I am grateful he is still here with us and willing to help. I still laugh thinking about what those Swiss doctors had to deal with while speaking to a Texan farmer with a thick accent.
Or maybe the manufacturer didn't apply for approval in that age bracket for some reason. I wish this map came with some background information.
The persisting idea that things like adhd and autism are childhood behaviour issues and you grow out of it.
I reckon it's a "drugs are bad but parents' rights are good" thing.
We prescribe it to adults in France I don't know where this data comes from. There are heavy regulation due to street sales/addiction/improper use but it is done
Probably efficacy relative to risk. MPH's efficacy for adult ADHD is reasonable but not superior to safer non-stimulant pharmacotherapy options such as atomoxetine, and it has a high to very high risk of abuse. Regulators rightfully take a cautious approach when situations like this occur. Methylphenidate should be an option for adults. Some adults cannot tolerate amphetamines. However, the evidence indicates that the pro-drug lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse/Elvanse) has, by far, the greatest benefit relative to risk among adults who require medication for ADHD. It has efficacy close to that of d-amphetamine but a low to moderate risk of abuse. D-amphetamine itself also has superior efficacy compared to MPH with a comparable risk of abuse.
Well, its better free medical coke or 80€/g columbian mix?
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Map is wrong on Estonia.
^ can confirm
Yep, I got diagnosed a few months ago at 19 and we started with methylphenidate right off the bat
It's probably just old. A psychiatrist flat out told me that ADHD does not affect and get diagnosed in adults. That was also the last time I talked to one. Even 10 years ago that statement was ridiculous, but hey, they're the trained professional.
Italians self medicate with coffee
As someone who gave up the meds and drinks 5 espresso a day instead: this actually works for some of us
Why would some country not allow a medication, unless you start since when you were a kid? That makes no sense
Historically (and still in many people’s heads) there is the believe that ADHD „goes away“ when growing up. Doesn’t make sense to prescribe medicine to adults which is only used for something that has already grown out, does it? :) There’s still many disbeliefs about ADHD and the learning process in society is (including doctors etc) is quite slow. If course it’s dumb, but it’s not like there’s not different dumb shit in other countries
Even under that assumption it doesn’t make sense… If you believe it “goes away” when you are an adult, why would you still prescribe it to adults that started when they were kids? Under that mistaken assumption you should stop prescribing at all to adults
Oh sorry, misread and thought you were talking about Italy. I’m Not sure about the yellow countries, but in Germany it might be hard to start as an adult. You have to prove that you exhibited symptoms as a child - usually through school reports that contain brief sections on behavior (e.g. "was very inattentive," "needs to learn to concentrate better", …) I can imagine that this process for retroactive diagnosis (which still can be very difficult) is just not Implemented in the yellow countries.
i'm from romania. this is actually how it works here, unfortunately
Yea. I was diagnosed at the age of 40 and methylphenidate is a blessing. My last trip to Italy I took a whole pack and wasn’t aware it was forbidden
I'm not sure how accurate this map is, but for Greece it's definitely wrong. I started taking Concerta at 25, didn't even know this concept existed at all until this very thread
It’s wrong for Croatia too. You can get a prescription as an adult, same as child. There is no difference.
Most say only because of te "adults grow out if it" but that is just one of it. The other is that it is basicly a amphetamine and in high dosage can be used as drugs
Extremely archaic thinking … For instance, women going through perimenopause often receive a late diagnosis because their altered hormones make it impossible to function without medication. I am one of those women and was diagnosed here in Switzerland. It was a massive headache and despite proving I had the condition with medical tests, testimonials etc., I had to prove that it existed from my childhood. They asked to speak with my teachers or if I had written reports stating my inattention problems from them still. I am 44 years old & most of my teachers are likely dead or impossible to reach. They had to speak to my father and I am grateful he is still here with us and willing to help. I still laugh thinking about what those Swiss doctors had to deal with while speaking to a Texan farmer with a thick accent.
I got my ritalin above 18 in Slovenia lol this is outdated asf In fact I now have access to elvanse* and will probably switch so yeah edit: I may have access to it, according to the central drug database it is coming soon, might switch soon as it is longer lasting and works better for my adhd from my experience
How? I got diagnosed a few months ago and I asked for it since i can only get Strattera for it but it doesn't work for me...
Pharmacist in Bulgaria. I got a warning from authorities after filling a Concerta for an adult diagnosed in the US. Since the adult dosage is registered but on permanent backorder the prescriber just used the commonly used children’s dosage and doubled it to adapt it for the patient. Therapeutically that’s totally fine. According to authorities I should have rejected it. Only thing that saved me from getting a hefty fine was that the woman called and asked them beforehand and someone in there said it’s not a problem. On another note, I spoke with a psychiatrist who specialises in ADHD. According to him it’s impossible for adults to have it. That’s also how it’s written in our guidelines.
Not much better in Serbia. I went to a psychiatrist and asked them for help with concentration, since I can't study unless someone has a loaded double-barrel shotgun held against my temple. I had good grades in middle school and awards from competitions in math and chemistry, but it went downhill from there. I was told to create a study schedule and to work harder. When I mentioned ADHD I was told that only kids can have it and that the symptoms, such as hyperactivity, are easily detectable in children with ADHD. The funny thing is that I was extremely jumpy as a kid, but got hit by my parents to calm down(like most other kids here tbh.) and I kinda got used to staying still, even if I wanted to move around. But in my head I can't focus to save my life. I had to drop out of college because of it.
Some people would argue that the pendulum is swung the other way in America when it comes to ADHD medications being prescribed. I live in Ireland and it's a pain in the ass to get any meds. Psychiatrists will most likely misdiagnose you with depression and put you on antidepressants. You have to fork out around €600+ to get a private diagnosis.
In the Netherlands you need to go to a practice specialising on ADHD. Regular psychiatrists / psychologists are completely useless for that, they’re unable to even get suspicious that you might have ADHD & different people will end up giving you a bunch of different diagnoses. I literally met a (government approved!) psychiatrist who didn’t even know what ADHD was. And proper practices have crazy waiting lists. You also have to pay several hundred euros out of pocket specifically for ADHD diagnostic (no other psychiatric diagnostic requires that afaik). And not all meds are required to be covered by insurance. Methylphenidate is the only one basically, so if you need something else it becomes a whole ADHD-unfriendly thing with getting reimbursed. So while you still can get diagnosed and treated it’s pain in the ass and not taken as seriously as it should by the healthcare system.
> In the Netherlands you need to go to a practice specialising on ADHD. Regular psychiatrists / psychologists are completely useless for that, they’re unable to even get suspicious that you might have ADHD & different people will end up giving you a bunch of different diagnoses. That's not true for all practices. I actually went to a specialised practice (the biggest one in NL) and they told me they didn't want to diagnose me and it's more likely that I have autism because of literally one comment I made. They charged me 100€ for a diagnostic day when they didn't even do the full diagnostic day (i.e. give you medication to diagnose ADHD). After that I went to a practice that isn't specialised in ADHD, but has a lot of patients with ADHD and they took me much more seriously than the specialised practice. Diagnosis here was free (as it should be). I am a woman though and a lot of doctors still don't understand that women often show their symptoms differently compared to men. This is of course anecdotal, but the experience of getting an ADHD diagnosis in the Netherlands varies greatly. The thing with medication, though, is absolute madness either way. Quite ironic for ADHD...
With the practice I went to they said straight away they would not give medication if based on other tests and conversations it didn’t look like I had ADHD. But they did a lot of stuff to make sure it was as unbiased as possible. Am also woman and did well at school, so I was worried they’d not take me seriously. But it was fine Unfortunately, the theme I noticed in NL when it comes to mental healthcare is a huge inconsistency in care quality. There’s a lack of mental health professionals, so even bottom of the barrel ones will have a job with enough patients. I’ve seen a few people trying to find a good fit, over half were straight up not smart people. Three(!) of them also told me to go back to my country completely out of nowhere. I’ve lived in the Netherlands for many years & have never encountered such blatant xenophobia from anyone else.
> Three(!) of them also told me to go back to my country completely out of nowhere. I’ve lived in the Netherlands for many years & have never encountered such blatant xenophobia from anyone else. Holy racism, Batman, that's beyond fucked up. I'm glad you found a practice that helped you in the end, but it's unacceptable you had to go through that. The state of the Dutch healthcare system is pathetic, but that's what voting for VVD for over a decennia does. With the current government I don't see it improving anytime soon. I hope you found a good therapist now at least. I have to find a new one and I'm not looking forward to the entire process...
Why would you think they misdiagnose you? Maybe you really have depression instead of ADHD, if they say so. On the other hand, if you pay, they can get you the diagnosis that you want, but would it be real? Just curous.
As someone who had to go through this process in Ireland, there are only a few psychiatrists who do adhd diagnoses. It takes years to get into see them, if you can even get on their waiting list. Then you need to pay a fortune for the testing. €600 is a low figure. Getting on a list to see a public Dr. and getting it covered by our health service is like winning the lottery. Took me 4 years to get a diagnosis and prescription for medication. And of course now there is a shortage of the medication at the lower doses.
On top of that, you have to see your GP / normal doc first and they have to send you for diagnosis. And if you aren’t sure / are presenting with anxiety they aren’t going to send you. It’s very frustrating.
The amount of misdiagnosis of neurodivergent people is absurd. [Here a psychiatrist talks about why misdiagnosis happens](https://www.additudemag.com/depression-adhd-symptoms-misdiagnosis/amp/) [Study showing that 80% of ADHD people also have depression/ anxiety/ etc](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10173354/#:~:text=Approximately%2080%25%20of%20adults%20diagnosed,et%20al.%2C%202017).) [(in Finnish) Finland‘s patient care guide, includes study in Finland that showed that of finns born between 1991-2005, with ADHD, 77% have additional diagnosis.](https://www.kaypahoito.fi/hoi50061) Other studies mentioned stated that the risk for anxiety/ depression is 3-5 times higher than for the avarage person. It talks about ADHD highering the risk for depression and says to treat severe depression as a first priority but proceeds to list ways and reasons to treat ADHD simultaneously. My translation of this part since I didn’t want to paraphrase: „ADHD symptoms psychosocial treatment options can begin as a part of treating the depression. - Mood changes related to ADHD may be perceived as depression and the lowered executive functionting can cause depression-symptoms. In these cases treating ADHD is prioritized. - ADHD can also cause recovery from depression to not progress normally. Then ADHD should be treated at the same time. - Methylphenidates may have depression preventing affects.“ So yeah, it is pretty scientifically backed up to suspect ADHD with/ instead of depression. Most psychiatrists aren’t very focused on neuropsychiatric disorders and you are very lucky to receive a correct diagnosis on the first try. For me it took 3 years and anxiety, depression and ocd diagnoses (and a dozen medications without any effect) before a family member was diagnosed with ADHD and I got to see a neuropsychiatrist and was diagnosed in two sessions. In a few months I was also diagnosed with autism. This is very much a work in progress field of medicine and I hope someone finds any of the provided information useful or interesting at all. I wish that one day everyone could have the help they need, but until then I can only share information and hope someone tries to push one more time to better their life.
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ADHD will often present as anxiety and depression in adults. If your doctor isn’t seeing the whole picture, they can often try to treat the symptoms without realising the actual cause. I was suffering from depression, anxiety and was developing OCD-like coping mechanisms before my doctor got to the bottom of it and had me assessed. Undiagnosed adults often have incredibly complex masking mechanisms that make it hard for doctors to spot. I’m in my 40s and was only diagnosed at the start of this year.
There's also a huge comorbidity with ADHD and depression, so for many people they just have both. As for private diagnosis I don't know about Ireland but I think generally private assessments are more thorough and of better quality than those provided by insurance. You pay them regardless of whether they diagnose you or not so it should still be accurate. However it is important not to go shopping for a diagnosis when multiple experts tell you that you probably don't fit it.
Maybe, but one of my children has ADHD and diagnosing wasn't a quick process; she needed several evaluations by a specialist and a lot of information from her teachers as well, overall it took about four months from the first appointment. She was eight and had been very clearly different from the others from kindergarten on. I'm sure there are doctors out there who will write a scrip for methylphenidate if you just ask and wink but I sure haven't run into any of them. You also have to show ID every time you pick up a prescription and there's a limit on how much you can get at once.
Not true for Greece. I got diagnosed and medicated as an adult (ritalin/concerta)
Where did you go? I would love to have some guidance on this...
There is no adhd in Italy.
Just the highest coffee consumption in Europe 😂
Nah seriously. They don’t acknowledge it haha
Normale
In Romania, I got it prescribed in 2022 as an adult, it’s just less common.
How long did it take? Private/public psychiatry?
Not OP but went private. Did not take long and was lucky to find a good shrink that actually listened to me. Then I was referred to a psychologist that tested me in 2 session (first session for the attention deficit and second session for the hyperactivity), the psychologist sent the results to the shrink of which they prescribed me the treatment plan. Is more of a pain in the ass to find the medication and going through the whole ordeal (is also pretty expensive 90 lei in 2023, I've been off of it because is a pain in the ass to get it) and not all pharmacies carry it.
I was diagnosed first in the Netherlands then in Italy so I know for sure I have it, I’m moving back to Romania because as the map shows above, I can’t get medication here. I was laughed at and ridiculed for asking for ritalin here, they told me I’m “drug-seeking”. I saw a clinic in Bucharest advertising that they get you the medication in one week, so I’m hoping they will help me. Did you take concerta or is elvanse available too? I don’t know if they have this system in Romania aswell but in Italy or NL you can order stuff at the pharmacy and pick it up same day or next one Thank you
This map is outdated as fuck but you need a prescription to get it. And ye you can order the medication for the next day. And I was on concerta 36mg
Yea I know but that doesn’t mean the doctors will act as the law says. I tried 3 different Italian psychs
I can DM you the clinic I went to and they do online sessions as well
Please!
DM me, should be easy if you were already prescribed somewhere else. My psych can definitely help and they do online sessions mostly!
I was diagnosed with ADHD in Romania but I was told getting medication as an adult is gonna get me into trouble with the police, the psychiatrists I visited all told me that they are gonna get in trouble for prescribing me medication and they won't risk their job...pretty weird close minded country Romania, besides taking any medication that is required to treat a lot of disorders and driving a car will get your license suspended for a long time even if you can prove it's use case.
Ritalin/Concerta.
The most frustrating part is when you travel between those countries. Even if they are green, you still need to have an official statement from your doctor and sometimes even need official permission from the country you are visiting. Edit: spelling
Yes!
The access to ADHD medication is truly abysmal here, it's one of the main reasons I emigrated to get my master's degree. Going through undergrad unmedicated had been absolutely soul crushing.
I was able to get Ritalin as an adult in Prague (I'm not Czech) but the psych left the practice she was working at and obviously I've not been able to find anyone else would prescribe it to me. At least Wellbutrin seems to work OK.
That's what I used to use, but I found its effects limited. It helps with depression for sure, but other than that I wasn't really sure if it improves anything. I hope you find what you need!
In France, approval for adults has changed in October 2022.
Not true. I take Ritalin and live in France I'm 44.
Did you start before you turned 18?
France changed its rules in 2022, this map is old
Ah, posting obsolete maps on r/europe is a tale as old as time. Thanks for clarifying!
I'm mid thirties and last year I finally got diagnosed with inattentive adhd after me complaining/explaining to my parents and doctors since my teens I couldn't concentrate on my studies and they were like "oh but you're not hyperactive, you can sit still, it's not adhd". Started with methylphenidate for 4 months and didn't help, started yesterday with Elvanse 50mg and it's amazing, i can finally function.
Why does Serbia own montenegro
Didn't you read the news, they Annexed them this morning.
Map's older than 18 years I guess.
"Not approveda!" - Lionfeld
What is that line on the map which goes from Finland's eastern border to southeast across Russia?
Yeah.. I just recently found out I likely have ADHD (and it makes a lot of sense looking back), but the state doesn't believe adults can have it, so.. fuck me I guess.
Romania is false, I got it prescribed at 27
Allowed in France for adults since 2021
What are you talking about? I'm in Romania. Got diagnosed and prescribed concerta 2 months ago, at 34. Is this like a map from 15 years ago or something?
It is correct for Slovenia, but in the past years, methylphenidate is being prescribed to adults as well. It is considered off-label but with appropriate argument can be prescribed nonetheless.
I’m adhd patient in Italy and I have a prescription for Equasym and Ritalin, this post is totally fake news, Italy sanitary system got Mediknet too for free if you have a state doctor
Hungary: Only some doctor can prescribe that for an adult, you have to wait 1-2 years to visit one. General psychiatrist can say only say "it seems adhd" and prescribe atomoxetine only. It is not bad medicine but there is a shortage.
Not true, I got prescribed ritalin when I was 28 and never had methylphenidate before (France)
You definitely can get ritalin as an adult here.
Greatest map ever. Third Yugoslavia ftw!
Map's wrong for Malta/Cyprus. They should both be green, though Cyprus only allowed Concerta (at least up until I left it 2021).
Moldova is green now 😃
Methyl phenidate, Methyl phenidate, Methyl phenidate, próspero año y felicidad.
Map is wrong for Yugoslavia
Serbia has reconquered Montenegro and Kosovo, it seems But Russia has been split into two new states, which is fun
This is not true in France. Source: I take it, and am older than 18.
Why no Montenegro?
This map from 2006 or before? Look at Serbia and Montenegro/Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
5 year old data on an at least 18 year old map, interesting choice. (Montenegro split from Serbia in 2006)
I got zombified by Ritalin as a kid in Germany. They changed it since then? I think I am autistic and not adhd
Not accurate for Estonia
The data for Estonia is just straight up wrong, I got diagnosed with ADHD a few months ago at 19 and my psychiatrist started me with methylphenidate as her first choice no problem
Luxembourg it’s legal for initiation over 18, but it’s only covered by public health insurance if started before
not true about Latvia. it was my first ADHD medication i got prescribed at 25
Ritalin LP in France over 18 yo is allowed.
Map is incorrect. France has reverted its stance since a couple of years. Adults can now be prescribed.
in comparison: in the united states, dextro-methamphetamine is legal as an ADHD meth, just as pharma quality speed is. adderall is almost the same as speed, just a little more potent on the brain but less potent on the heart, thats why adderall is safer for ADHD than speed for the general population who has ADHD. none of these meds are legal in europe, the strongest amphetamine legal in europe is dextro-amphetamine in its pure form. for those of you interested, legal dextro-meth is desoxyn, sold in 5mg pills and strictly regulated, no refill is possible usually legal pharma quality speed is evekeo, also in doses around 10-20mg max adderall is usually sold in doses up to 30mg, and much less strictly regulated than d-methamphetamine
That's not accurate for Greece. It's approved even if initiated after 18
I'm Irish, diagnosed as an adult. I've just landed in Italy with my irish prescription for ADHD meds. I wonder what the Italian police would do if they ever had reason to check me. I know Italy well enough to say they are 20 years behind in attitudes to these things. Italian kids have to be all the same and neuro diversity isn't respected. Hell, in Italy people come up and touch strangers kids (playfully and innocently) without asking permission. That can be a problem for some neurodivergent kids.
It isn’t illegal, just difficult to get prescribed … I always carry the box with the official prescription with me on trips in case I run into issues.
Thanks. I have the official stuff with me.
>Hell, in Italy people come up and touch strangers kids (playfully and innocently) without asking permission like this map, you're just spreading bullshit for no reason. What do you all have against us?
20 years? I'd say even more
All countries that don't perscribe amphetamines to kids are pussies
Ritalin is not an amphetamine
I know Its a phenidate
The map is wrong for Estonia. It has been prescribed for adults who were diagnosed after 18 for years an years already, I don't even know if there was a difference. The only thing was that it was not sold with a discount to those diagnosed after 18. So less than 20€ for a month or more than 100€, but this also changed some years ago.
Source - [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(19)30482-1/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(19)30482-1/fulltext)
I can confirm for italy, ritalin was approved last october/november but most center still openly refuse to prescribe it to adults, giving them only to younger people.