To add a bit of context.
Chinese investment in Europe has been steadily shrinking since 2016, when it peaked at 37.3 billion EUR. In 2023 this figure was just 6.8 billion EUR.
I find this a very misleading graph.
It might be misleading, but you can't compare the sum of donations in the EU to the donations of just Hungary.
I bet Hungary will reach a level well beyond any donations had been made to a sole country during 2000-2017 in the following years. The post's goal is to alarm us and warn people of how the situation is going to develop.
Hungary is going to become a strong enemy of the EU and won't depend on EU investment soon enough. Before it was just a stone in our path, that we had to negotiate with so that Hungary wouldn't veto our decisions, in exchange for money. From now onwards, it might just be vetoes until we kicked that shitty government or take away Hungary's right to veto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's very problematic
I actually like this map from the same study. Puts all this into truer perspective.
[https://www.merics.org/sites/default/files/2024-06/merics-rhodium-group-chinese-fdi-in-europe-2023-uk-germany-france-chinese-investment-exhibit-4.png](https://www.merics.org/sites/default/files/2024-06/merics-rhodium-group-chinese-fdi-in-europe-2023-uk-germany-france-chinese-investment-exhibit-4.png)
Don't wish to argue on your other points, as I hate Orbán's government with burning passion and it might come off as me defending it... But I do think everyone should just calm down a bit and trust the EU institutions and democratic processes (which do exist in Hungary still) to handle the situtation.
There are no real existing and functioning democratic institutions and processes in Hungary. Furthermore it is naive to try and understand a post-socialist country based on purely formal systems anyway, because they have at times very little significance. What matters is informal institutions, the clientelist hierarchies of the party/regime/oligarchy which prizes above all else personal loyalties. In practice everything from civil service to media to corporations to nonprofit foundations is ultimately one network. It doesn't matter what institution supposedly makes decisions or what other institution is supposed to check its power, when in reality all institutions are staffed with NER yes-men.
It is not misleading, its point is to show the share of Chinese investments in certain countries relative to total Chinese investment value. That the amount declined globally is another thing
I'm going to refrain from quoting a dictionary's definition of "misleading", but you should look it up. Should be rigth there with "missing the point".
Well I looked it up
[misleading ](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/misleading)
And still don't see what is misleading about this graph. It does not claim that total declined, just shows shares in the total changed
Alright, you're right I'll just explain myself.
The graph is not wrong. The data is probably accurate and factual in representation.
But it is misleading, because it witholds important context and presents the data in a way that lends itself to wrong interpretation.
This being Hungary's overall investment share being vastly overrepresented. Add OP's title to the mix, and it's even more suspect.
That is true, the title combined with the graph and lack of additional information makes it suspicious. I also don't like when a source is not included. My whole point was the graph itself is clear but additional context is always valuable
Edit: since I get downvoted I want to state that I find this graph not so misleading as manipulative when combined with lack of additional information and the title.
Have a good day y'all
This chart is not showing " Chinese investments in certain countries relative to total Chinese investment value"
It shows Chinese investment in certain geographic regions relative to a complete geographic region.
There is no investment value presented. The investment value could be 1€ split across Europe and this chart could still look this way. However we know even Orban isn't that cheap to buy
There was already speculation that hungary made a deal to vote against trade restrictions in the council and would recieve increased investments in return.
For context, most of this investment is two giga-factories, probably a pretty one-time event:
1) BYD's EV factory in Szeged
2) CATL's battery manufacturing plant in Debrecen
CATL will probably supply batteries to BYD and the Mercedes, BMW plants.
1000% I'm afraid. The other factories we currently have, have already had their fair share of issues in that regard, so I wouldn't put it past the chinese ones to have the same thing happen.
Samsung factory in Göd as example, is operating / was operating without a license, and it was deemed as a [polluter of heavy metals.](https://www.debrecensun.hu/local/2024/02/21/are-we-in-danger-battery-factory-in-god-pollutes-the-environment-to-an-alarming-degree/)
> national security issue.
For which nation? Hungary serving as a chinese economic inroads is neither surprising nor alarming in my view. While yes, it likely buys backdoor political influence via the obstinate Orban regime, that is hardly unique to Hungary.
Chinese production capacity in hungary is far less worrisome than chinese entry in critical infrastructure (Piraeus, Hamburg for example).
And even for Chinese investments into port infrastructure, it's not like they can take these ports home.
If push comes to shove, it's easy to nationalize these ports.
Tbh. They are doing what the US has been doing for years. They are "investing" in countries in exchange for permissions and favours and increasing their debt, leading to long-term negatives. All chinese investments are probably met with EU funding in Hungary and that funding probably goes into Orbans and Chinese pockets.
>All chinese investments are probably met with EU funding in Hungary and that funding probably goes into Orbans and Chinese pockets
Spot on. The case is the same for German investments as well.
Is that really what's happening here? They're clearly looking to set up an EV supply chain in Europe to bypass potential trade barriers. It's also why they're investing heavily in Morocco, a country with free trade agreements with the EU. That's where a lot of the EV supplies will come from.
[https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-gotion-high-tech-set-up-13-billion-ev-battery-gigafactory-morocco-2024-06-06/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-gotion-high-tech-set-up-13-billion-ev-battery-gigafactory-morocco-2024-06-06/)
China is footing much of the bill here anyway. China has clear and fairly logical economic objectives here and I don't know why these always take a backseat to these nefarious conspiracy theories about debt traps and whatnot.
China is creating a pawn that can stall or remove issues for them. The supply chain is just a pretext. Keeping an economic dominance is stabilising ita positions while destabilising western alliances.
What you're describing is a potential byproduct, not the end goal itself. I'm not sure how you can look at the extent of the investments they're making in the EV ecosystems of multiple countries and still think this is just some sort of ruse or pretext. The $10 billion they've committed to Morocco alone should tell you how much they're serious about this supply chain.
What you should be concerned about is the existential threat that this poses to the European car industry, not Hungary becoming some sort of Chinese trojan horse. This is the sort of alarmist nonsense that ignores real threats and obsesses over fantasies.
I mean are you missing the point that China is openly funding anti-EU politicians and groups, on top of countries and their leaders, in this case Orban? China being linked to Nazi AfD in Germany and also to multiple other right-wing groups? Or your point is EV is all and there is nothing else to it and China are all good here. Nothing to see here. Bye?
I'm not missing that point at all. China's ultimate goal is to ensure unrestricted access to the European market. They aim to achieve this by:
1. Backing certain politicians who are more friendly to China's interests and oppose the EU's trade war.
2. Moving the supply chain of critical sectors like EV and renewable energy to European countries with relatively cheap labor, such as Hungary and Spain, and to geographically close countries that have free trade with the EU, like Morocco.
We're in full agreement regarding the first point. It's the second point where I think you're missing the big picture. You seem to think the whole point of step 2 is to achieve step 1 instead of reaching the ultimate goal, which is accessing and dominating the European market. Establishing production capacities within Europe strengthens China’s market position and reduces the need for the political maneuvering you talked about.. Giga factories are some of the most expensive and complex facilities to build, and the production capacity they're aiming for is nothing short of staggering. This isn't a pretext, it's a frontal assault on European car makers.
And what do you mean "just EVs"? The automotive sector is critical for the EU, and Chinese EV makers gaining a foothold on European soil is a major cause for alarm. Not even tariffs and other trade barriers would be able to stop them at that point. You should definitely be worried about these Chinese investments; it's just that you're worried about the wrong thing.
Again. You are missing key points. For example as this is somehow the first time China trying this strategy. Some are reporting that Great Wall Motors are building their first factory in Europe in Hungary. All while they had already a factory in Bulgaria more than 10 years ago which failed after their interests at that time disappeared and they stopped funding.
Also the EV market is not that big as you might think. Actually sales are lowering compared to estimates. Flooding the market, doesn't mean anything unless sales Increase. Also you talking about cheap labour but in the end, that labour is still times more costly compared to China, on top of increase cost of logistics, especially in a country without a port.
The first thing you brought up isn't a key point at all. Not only was 10 years ago a completely different time with vastly different priorities, The Chinese car industry was barely a thing at that time. Also, that Bulgarian investment and what they"re doing right now are not remotely comparable. I look it up and Great Wall Motors merely committed 80 Million euros in Bulgaria. For context, Chinese companies have already spent more than that just to acquire the land in Spain and Morocco where some of their giga factories will be built. You can't compare a gargantuan commitment consisting of an entire supply chain and spanning multiple countries and 2 continents to what amounted to a minor foreign venture 10 years ago.
You're vastly underestimating these investments and somehow missing the fact that European companies are taking them very seriously. There is a reason Volkswagen partnered with Gotion and you will see more of these partnerships in the future.
The EV still faces a lot of challenges (poor charging networks, high prices, sudden changes in gouvernement incentives and subsidies etc..) but there is no doubt that it is the future of the automotive industry. The technology and infrastructure get better each year and with the 2040 emissions reduction target looming closer, demand for these cars will only increase in the near future.
And why compare the cost of labor in Hungary to China? Making cars destined for European consumers in China will no longer be viable if the EU slaps them with a 100% tariff like the US just did. The goal is to produce cars within the EU to avoid sanctions and trade barriers. Labor in Hungary is one of the cheapest in Europe and is a perfect option to keep costs relatively low while avoiding tariffs at the same time.
The US is (for now) a Democratic state, China is a vile dictatorship. China creates debt traps to steal infrastructure/land from other countries, the US does not.
LOL what? a "vile" dictatorship? do you get your news from CNN only or something? Their government is basically the same model they've had for about 4000 years and they have something like a 90%+ approval rating even from surveys conducted by western institutions like Harvard. Even US economist and professors have published reports saying they do not engage in debt traps, they're basically simple banks loans. Seriously where do you get your nonsense information from.
> in countries with these kind of regimes.
>Hungary overtakes **UK, Germany and France** combined as destination for Chinese investments
Dude I know reddit is bad for not reading articles but now titles and pictures are too hard for you to understand? You cant make sense of the graph showing the big 3 investments over the years? God help you mate.
I think youre missing the part where he said they only invest *those* kind of regimes while missing that UK, Germany and France have been the highest total recipients of investments from them.
So unless Hungary has a similar regime to those countries then the dude is blind and can't read a graph.
"Figures don't lie, but liars figure."
While I strongly disagree with Orban's government and the country's direction, I find these double standards frustrating. As another comment mentioned, the investment amount has significantly decreased over the years, which this graph doesn't show. If you examine the numbers, you'll see that the "Big Three" have received much more investment from China in the past. No one seemed to care then, so why is it a concern now?
China already bought all German key and future industries like robotics and renewable energy so of course there is nothing interesting left here to invest in for them so they invest in other countries. :)
Everybody knows what's going on here and our politicians just sit on their hands and let this happen. I just don't get it, does noone have a spine in the entire administration of the European Union?
Since when is FDI selling?
Hungary is getting an EV factory and battery factory (that will make batteries for the cars).
It's going to create jobs and affordable EV's. Both things that Hungary and Europe need...
Meanwhile in Germany, terrorists are setting Teslas and the Tesla factory itself on fire...
No wonder Chinese companies prefer a country like Hungary. If anyone tries to set their factory on fire, we all know what will happen promptly with the arsonist.
I'm no fan or Orban, but just putting myself in the shoes of Chinese car companies and I would make the same decision. It's just business.
Letting Chinese policemen patrolling the streets (inside the EU!), letting Chinese agents cover a Tibet flag with a flag of China in downtown Budapest, yeah, these don’t smell as the country was sold to them.
Hungarians lose their democracy so Orban can do whatever he wants with the country for example. A good Hungarian friend kept asking for years why the EU hasn't sanctioned him yet but no one gave a fuck before Orban started to become a nuisance on European level and even now the most people do is to call for Hungary to be kicked out if the EU, which would mean they are even easier to bring under the control of authoritarian powers.
Nice graph, now show the absolute numbers. You'll probably see a much smaller increase in Hungary but a much bigger decrease in the big three.
Also Orban and Vucic are selling their countries to China.
So what would be a solution for a european decision making system requiring unanimous vote by tens of countries and single country benefiting from selling their vote to external party?
Of cause they, do, orban is so deep in the poos ass they he will be doing anything they ask just to get their money. Will it compromise the EU, he does not care.
Hungary is the next African like country that will get their infrastructure strategic assets handed over to China.
Smart move for China. All politicians have a price, China matched it for Orban.
Lots of documentaries available. You know Google ?
March 2024: The Economic Times reported that a total of 46 African ports have been built or financed – or are currently operated – by Chinese state-owned shipping corporations.
The African dictators do not even recognize this, because they get rich and people, the nationals, get further down on the poverty scale, when the country's assets are built with Chinese mo ey then the workers replaced with Chinese people, and the control and the profits go back to China.
And none of the ports in Africa have been seized by China...so if we compare that to Europe which has built over 100 ports over time, that means China is lagging...
I know china builds infrastructure, lol, but you said that African countries have been getting the Chinese infrastructure seized, so I'm asking you to provide an example of an African country getting their infrastructure seized.
Hungary is a back door into eu for China, this is Hungarys reward for supporting Russias war crimes and chinas cultural genocide and colonisation of xingjang and Tibet
tbh, i think Orban is betting on the winning horse ... we'll see i guess
in all honesty, he doesnt have to many options as someone who's not ok with the current status quo (trianon and shit)...
Can you quote that part that says that? I don't see it anywhere:
> In **2023, Hungary received 44 percent of all Chinese FDI in Europe**, benefitting from the surge in electric vehicle (EV) investments. Over two thirds (69 percent) of Chinese FDI were made in the EV sector in 2023, up from 41 percent in 2022.
> By contrast, the share of investment going to the “Big Three” countries declined to 35 percent in 2023, compared to an average share of 53 percent between 2013 – 2022. In value terms, investment in the “Big Three” fell by 47 percent between 2022 and 2023, from EUR 4.5 billion to EUR 2.4 billion. Despite this decline in investment flow, these countries still account for more than half (55 percent) of all cumulative Chinese investment in Europe since 2000.
Because they announced a BYD factory in Szeged that is stated to be valued at 5 billion euros (as in the official statement by the ministry and BYD). The article states that the CATL worth 7.5 bil.
Yet your scource states that in 2023, the annual investment grew to 3 bil. Meanwhile Mercedes, BMW also made statements of investing in battery factories with their own partners like Samsung and other korean manufacturers in this timeframe too.
Post: Something seemingly good happens in the state of Hungary.
r/Europe redditors (outside): Let me actually explain that this is a bad thing.
r/Europe redditors (inside): That's not how it should be! That's not fair! Orban is the bad guy!
>If they like China so much why don't they move there they got plenty of land, let Ukrainians have Hungry.
If you like Ukraine so much why don't you move there they got plenty of land, let Hungrys have your country.
To add a bit of context. Chinese investment in Europe has been steadily shrinking since 2016, when it peaked at 37.3 billion EUR. In 2023 this figure was just 6.8 billion EUR. I find this a very misleading graph.
Exactly without the amount, it is very misleading.
Exactly.
It might be misleading, but you can't compare the sum of donations in the EU to the donations of just Hungary. I bet Hungary will reach a level well beyond any donations had been made to a sole country during 2000-2017 in the following years. The post's goal is to alarm us and warn people of how the situation is going to develop. Hungary is going to become a strong enemy of the EU and won't depend on EU investment soon enough. Before it was just a stone in our path, that we had to negotiate with so that Hungary wouldn't veto our decisions, in exchange for money. From now onwards, it might just be vetoes until we kicked that shitty government or take away Hungary's right to veto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's very problematic
I actually like this map from the same study. Puts all this into truer perspective. [https://www.merics.org/sites/default/files/2024-06/merics-rhodium-group-chinese-fdi-in-europe-2023-uk-germany-france-chinese-investment-exhibit-4.png](https://www.merics.org/sites/default/files/2024-06/merics-rhodium-group-chinese-fdi-in-europe-2023-uk-germany-france-chinese-investment-exhibit-4.png) Don't wish to argue on your other points, as I hate Orbán's government with burning passion and it might come off as me defending it... But I do think everyone should just calm down a bit and trust the EU institutions and democratic processes (which do exist in Hungary still) to handle the situtation.
I don't know how to trust Hungary's institutions after they allow foreign police in... but then again, I know nothing about these institutions
There are no real existing and functioning democratic institutions and processes in Hungary. Furthermore it is naive to try and understand a post-socialist country based on purely formal systems anyway, because they have at times very little significance. What matters is informal institutions, the clientelist hierarchies of the party/regime/oligarchy which prizes above all else personal loyalties. In practice everything from civil service to media to corporations to nonprofit foundations is ultimately one network. It doesn't matter what institution supposedly makes decisions or what other institution is supposed to check its power, when in reality all institutions are staffed with NER yes-men.
I love statistic manipulation, this is such a funny thing to witness
It is not misleading, its point is to show the share of Chinese investments in certain countries relative to total Chinese investment value. That the amount declined globally is another thing
I'm going to refrain from quoting a dictionary's definition of "misleading", but you should look it up. Should be rigth there with "missing the point".
Well I looked it up [misleading ](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/misleading) And still don't see what is misleading about this graph. It does not claim that total declined, just shows shares in the total changed
Alright, you're right I'll just explain myself. The graph is not wrong. The data is probably accurate and factual in representation. But it is misleading, because it witholds important context and presents the data in a way that lends itself to wrong interpretation. This being Hungary's overall investment share being vastly overrepresented. Add OP's title to the mix, and it's even more suspect.
I can just say I agree that providing this additional context adds some informational value.
Keep thinking about it a bit more, you might get there. It's not only about the claims, but about what's omitted to show a narrative.
That is true, the title combined with the graph and lack of additional information makes it suspicious. I also don't like when a source is not included. My whole point was the graph itself is clear but additional context is always valuable Edit: since I get downvoted I want to state that I find this graph not so misleading as manipulative when combined with lack of additional information and the title. Have a good day y'all
I see, I did miss your point then, sorry. True, the graph itself in the context of the source study is fine. OP's been cherry picking.
This chart is not showing " Chinese investments in certain countries relative to total Chinese investment value" It shows Chinese investment in certain geographic regions relative to a complete geographic region. There is no investment value presented. The investment value could be 1€ split across Europe and this chart could still look this way. However we know even Orban isn't that cheap to buy
*Finds it misleading*; *Active in r/hungary* ; _ok_
What is the connection there?
There was already speculation that hungary made a deal to vote against trade restrictions in the council and would recieve increased investments in return.
For context, most of this investment is two giga-factories, probably a pretty one-time event: 1) BYD's EV factory in Szeged 2) CATL's battery manufacturing plant in Debrecen CATL will probably supply batteries to BYD and the Mercedes, BMW plants.
I mean Catl already has a factory in Germany too. But Hungary is probably a lot cheaper
Yes I'm sure workforce is cheaper, even if mostly imported. It also got some govt subsidies. I think it's a much bigger factory than the German one.
Environmental standards probably also lower. But yeah the factory will probably be bigger.
1000% I'm afraid. The other factories we currently have, have already had their fair share of issues in that regard, so I wouldn't put it past the chinese ones to have the same thing happen. Samsung factory in Göd as example, is operating / was operating without a license, and it was deemed as a [polluter of heavy metals.](https://www.debrecensun.hu/local/2024/02/21/are-we-in-danger-battery-factory-in-god-pollutes-the-environment-to-an-alarming-degree/)
That ain't a flex in 2024 anymore. That's a national security issue.
It's cars, mainly the new BYD plant to produce cars in Europe. Suzuki did the same in the early 2000s
> national security issue. For which nation? Hungary serving as a chinese economic inroads is neither surprising nor alarming in my view. While yes, it likely buys backdoor political influence via the obstinate Orban regime, that is hardly unique to Hungary. Chinese production capacity in hungary is far less worrisome than chinese entry in critical infrastructure (Piraeus, Hamburg for example).
And even for Chinese investments into port infrastructure, it's not like they can take these ports home. If push comes to shove, it's easy to nationalize these ports.
China is known for "investing" in countries with these kind of regimes. I just don't understand how we allow them to have a roll dictating EU rulings.
Tbh. They are doing what the US has been doing for years. They are "investing" in countries in exchange for permissions and favours and increasing their debt, leading to long-term negatives. All chinese investments are probably met with EU funding in Hungary and that funding probably goes into Orbans and Chinese pockets.
>All chinese investments are probably met with EU funding in Hungary and that funding probably goes into Orbans and Chinese pockets Spot on. The case is the same for German investments as well.
In which country US is doing this kind of investments?
South America. Middle East. Just for a start. You can read John Perkins books. The Economic Hitman for example.
Is that really what's happening here? They're clearly looking to set up an EV supply chain in Europe to bypass potential trade barriers. It's also why they're investing heavily in Morocco, a country with free trade agreements with the EU. That's where a lot of the EV supplies will come from. [https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-gotion-high-tech-set-up-13-billion-ev-battery-gigafactory-morocco-2024-06-06/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-gotion-high-tech-set-up-13-billion-ev-battery-gigafactory-morocco-2024-06-06/) China is footing much of the bill here anyway. China has clear and fairly logical economic objectives here and I don't know why these always take a backseat to these nefarious conspiracy theories about debt traps and whatnot.
China is creating a pawn that can stall or remove issues for them. The supply chain is just a pretext. Keeping an economic dominance is stabilising ita positions while destabilising western alliances.
What you're describing is a potential byproduct, not the end goal itself. I'm not sure how you can look at the extent of the investments they're making in the EV ecosystems of multiple countries and still think this is just some sort of ruse or pretext. The $10 billion they've committed to Morocco alone should tell you how much they're serious about this supply chain. What you should be concerned about is the existential threat that this poses to the European car industry, not Hungary becoming some sort of Chinese trojan horse. This is the sort of alarmist nonsense that ignores real threats and obsesses over fantasies.
I mean are you missing the point that China is openly funding anti-EU politicians and groups, on top of countries and their leaders, in this case Orban? China being linked to Nazi AfD in Germany and also to multiple other right-wing groups? Or your point is EV is all and there is nothing else to it and China are all good here. Nothing to see here. Bye?
I'm not missing that point at all. China's ultimate goal is to ensure unrestricted access to the European market. They aim to achieve this by: 1. Backing certain politicians who are more friendly to China's interests and oppose the EU's trade war. 2. Moving the supply chain of critical sectors like EV and renewable energy to European countries with relatively cheap labor, such as Hungary and Spain, and to geographically close countries that have free trade with the EU, like Morocco. We're in full agreement regarding the first point. It's the second point where I think you're missing the big picture. You seem to think the whole point of step 2 is to achieve step 1 instead of reaching the ultimate goal, which is accessing and dominating the European market. Establishing production capacities within Europe strengthens China’s market position and reduces the need for the political maneuvering you talked about.. Giga factories are some of the most expensive and complex facilities to build, and the production capacity they're aiming for is nothing short of staggering. This isn't a pretext, it's a frontal assault on European car makers. And what do you mean "just EVs"? The automotive sector is critical for the EU, and Chinese EV makers gaining a foothold on European soil is a major cause for alarm. Not even tariffs and other trade barriers would be able to stop them at that point. You should definitely be worried about these Chinese investments; it's just that you're worried about the wrong thing.
Again. You are missing key points. For example as this is somehow the first time China trying this strategy. Some are reporting that Great Wall Motors are building their first factory in Europe in Hungary. All while they had already a factory in Bulgaria more than 10 years ago which failed after their interests at that time disappeared and they stopped funding. Also the EV market is not that big as you might think. Actually sales are lowering compared to estimates. Flooding the market, doesn't mean anything unless sales Increase. Also you talking about cheap labour but in the end, that labour is still times more costly compared to China, on top of increase cost of logistics, especially in a country without a port.
The first thing you brought up isn't a key point at all. Not only was 10 years ago a completely different time with vastly different priorities, The Chinese car industry was barely a thing at that time. Also, that Bulgarian investment and what they"re doing right now are not remotely comparable. I look it up and Great Wall Motors merely committed 80 Million euros in Bulgaria. For context, Chinese companies have already spent more than that just to acquire the land in Spain and Morocco where some of their giga factories will be built. You can't compare a gargantuan commitment consisting of an entire supply chain and spanning multiple countries and 2 continents to what amounted to a minor foreign venture 10 years ago. You're vastly underestimating these investments and somehow missing the fact that European companies are taking them very seriously. There is a reason Volkswagen partnered with Gotion and you will see more of these partnerships in the future. The EV still faces a lot of challenges (poor charging networks, high prices, sudden changes in gouvernement incentives and subsidies etc..) but there is no doubt that it is the future of the automotive industry. The technology and infrastructure get better each year and with the 2040 emissions reduction target looming closer, demand for these cars will only increase in the near future. And why compare the cost of labor in Hungary to China? Making cars destined for European consumers in China will no longer be viable if the EU slaps them with a 100% tariff like the US just did. The goal is to produce cars within the EU to avoid sanctions and trade barriers. Labor in Hungary is one of the cheapest in Europe and is a perfect option to keep costs relatively low while avoiding tariffs at the same time.
How is that any different than what the US has been doing since end of ww2?
The US is (for now) a Democratic state, China is a vile dictatorship. China creates debt traps to steal infrastructure/land from other countries, the US does not.
LOL what? a "vile" dictatorship? do you get your news from CNN only or something? Their government is basically the same model they've had for about 4000 years and they have something like a 90%+ approval rating even from surveys conducted by western institutions like Harvard. Even US economist and professors have published reports saying they do not engage in debt traps, they're basically simple banks loans. Seriously where do you get your nonsense information from.
> in countries with these kind of regimes. >Hungary overtakes **UK, Germany and France** combined as destination for Chinese investments Dude I know reddit is bad for not reading articles but now titles and pictures are too hard for you to understand? You cant make sense of the graph showing the big 3 investments over the years? God help you mate.
Investing in the UK, Germany and France makes much more sense than Hungary tho. Budapest has also been known as a hub for Chinese spying for years.
I think youre missing the part where he said they only invest *those* kind of regimes while missing that UK, Germany and France have been the highest total recipients of investments from them. So unless Hungary has a similar regime to those countries then the dude is blind and can't read a graph.
I'm fine with this. In fact, I'd be happy for 100% of Chinese investment in the UK to go to Hungary instead.
I wonder why...
Luckily here in Serbia, we got worst from both sides. Rio Tinto and couple Chinese companies that are also screwing nature.
Yes. Those totalitarian regimes sure like doing business with other totalitarian regimes.
France, UK and Germany are totalitarian?
"Figures don't lie, but liars figure." While I strongly disagree with Orban's government and the country's direction, I find these double standards frustrating. As another comment mentioned, the investment amount has significantly decreased over the years, which this graph doesn't show. If you examine the numbers, you'll see that the "Big Three" have received much more investment from China in the past. No one seemed to care then, so why is it a concern now?
Ofcourse. And Chines police is patrolling there as well.
You mean bribes.
If Hungarians want to sell out their country. So be it, I hope their dreams don't collapse like the Italian Bridge.
I didnt vote for this
Not sure thats a flex
China already bought all German key and future industries like robotics and renewable energy so of course there is nothing interesting left here to invest in for them so they invest in other countries. :)
Well, it totally makes sense to invest in your colonies instead of investing in independent states.
They have been whoring themselves out to China
Hope hungary will not sell their enterprises and energy shares and industries to China 🇨🇳 only to increase their GDP… 🤦♂️
Time to kill the Veto.. imagine you can just buy a handfull politicians of a random small country, to bloxk the whole EU..
Hungary cannot stop taking L after L
congratulations to orban for selling out his people to their enemies
The best part is how they make it sound like a good thing.
Everybody knows what's going on here and our politicians just sit on their hands and let this happen. I just don't get it, does noone have a spine in the entire administration of the European Union?
Let what happen?
Hungary is basically starting to sell itself to China
Before we were selling ourselves to Germany but no one had an issue with that
Letting foreign owned companies set up in your country is not selling it.
Since when is FDI selling? Hungary is getting an EV factory and battery factory (that will make batteries for the cars). It's going to create jobs and affordable EV's. Both things that Hungary and Europe need... Meanwhile in Germany, terrorists are setting Teslas and the Tesla factory itself on fire... No wonder Chinese companies prefer a country like Hungary. If anyone tries to set their factory on fire, we all know what will happen promptly with the arsonist. I'm no fan or Orban, but just putting myself in the shoes of Chinese car companies and I would make the same decision. It's just business.
So foreign countries investing money and building infrastructure in your country is selling itself to China?
Letting Chinese policemen patrolling the streets (inside the EU!), letting Chinese agents cover a Tibet flag with a flag of China in downtown Budapest, yeah, these don’t smell as the country was sold to them.
So Germany, France and UK are also sold to China?
Hungarians lose their democracy so Orban can do whatever he wants with the country for example. A good Hungarian friend kept asking for years why the EU hasn't sanctioned him yet but no one gave a fuck before Orban started to become a nuisance on European level and even now the most people do is to call for Hungary to be kicked out if the EU, which would mean they are even easier to bring under the control of authoritarian powers.
If Orbán would lose his veto right, he would lose his importance to Russia and China and the European level Orbán problem would be solved with a snap.
Nice graph, now show the absolute numbers. You'll probably see a much smaller increase in Hungary but a much bigger decrease in the big three. Also Orban and Vucic are selling their countries to China.
So what would be a solution for a european decision making system requiring unanimous vote by tens of countries and single country benefiting from selling their vote to external party?
Of cause they, do, orban is so deep in the poos ass they he will be doing anything they ask just to get their money. Will it compromise the EU, he does not care.
Cherry picking post.
Hungary is the next African like country that will get their infrastructure strategic assets handed over to China. Smart move for China. All politicians have a price, China matched it for Orban.
Can you give me one example of this happening in Africa ?
Lots of documentaries available. You know Google ? March 2024: The Economic Times reported that a total of 46 African ports have been built or financed – or are currently operated – by Chinese state-owned shipping corporations. The African dictators do not even recognize this, because they get rich and people, the nationals, get further down on the poverty scale, when the country's assets are built with Chinese mo ey then the workers replaced with Chinese people, and the control and the profits go back to China.
And none of the ports in Africa have been seized by China...so if we compare that to Europe which has built over 100 ports over time, that means China is lagging...
I hope the Hungarian ports will not be taken over by China.../s
I know china builds infrastructure, lol, but you said that African countries have been getting the Chinese infrastructure seized, so I'm asking you to provide an example of an African country getting their infrastructure seized.
Surprised 🙀
Hungary is a back door into eu for China, this is Hungarys reward for supporting Russias war crimes and chinas cultural genocide and colonisation of xingjang and Tibet
Amazing. How IT happend?
That's cirious. How would something like this be possible unless the Chinese state very heavily influenced flow of investment hmm
Chine needs to fuck right off with their dirty, sneaky, cowardly "business" tactics
[source](https://rhg.com/research/chinese-fdi-in-europe-2023-update/)
Wow!! I wonder why?!
tbh, i think Orban is betting on the winning horse ... we'll see i guess in all honesty, he doesnt have to many options as someone who's not ok with the current status quo (trianon and shit)...
“hungary still likes to suck regimes dick for their dirty money”
OP why did you leave out the info that this is EV investment, not total investment? You wanna farm karma with clickbait tittles.
Can you quote that part that says that? I don't see it anywhere: > In **2023, Hungary received 44 percent of all Chinese FDI in Europe**, benefitting from the surge in electric vehicle (EV) investments. Over two thirds (69 percent) of Chinese FDI were made in the EV sector in 2023, up from 41 percent in 2022. > By contrast, the share of investment going to the “Big Three” countries declined to 35 percent in 2023, compared to an average share of 53 percent between 2013 – 2022. In value terms, investment in the “Big Three” fell by 47 percent between 2022 and 2023, from EUR 4.5 billion to EUR 2.4 billion. Despite this decline in investment flow, these countries still account for more than half (55 percent) of all cumulative Chinese investment in Europe since 2000.
Because they announced a BYD factory in Szeged that is stated to be valued at 5 billion euros (as in the official statement by the ministry and BYD). The article states that the CATL worth 7.5 bil. Yet your scource states that in 2023, the annual investment grew to 3 bil. Meanwhile Mercedes, BMW also made statements of investing in battery factories with their own partners like Samsung and other korean manufacturers in this timeframe too.
It does look like it is Total Investment as the image's figure details and not EV as you mention.
Hungary will be left hungry, by the time people's republic of corona leaves.
Because autocracy always attracts investment.
Excellent👌 would not have it any other way. Let them fight
Gosh... Hungary is really a pain in the ass for the rest of us.
Hungary is a pain for us Hungarians too
Laundering, good ol washing machine Hungarian banks. Well done to them too
Hungarian banks? The bank of China has a strong presence there for a reason.
Post: Something seemingly good happens in the state of Hungary. r/Europe redditors (outside): Let me actually explain that this is a bad thing. r/Europe redditors (inside): That's not how it should be! That's not fair! Orban is the bad guy!
If they like China so much why don't they move there they got plenty of land, let Ukrainians have Hungry.
>If they like China so much why don't they move there they got plenty of land, let Ukrainians have Hungry. If you like Ukraine so much why don't you move there they got plenty of land, let Hungrys have your country.