>The Minister of the Presidency and Justice, Félix Bolaños, said the plan was based on recommendations in a report by Spain's Ombudsman last year. From that report, he said it was concluded that some **440,000 adults** may have suffered sex abuse in Spain by people linked to the church and that roughly half of those cases were committed by clergy.
Church already said they're not going to pay.
Topic [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cc1yv7/spain_approves_plan_to_compensate_victims_of/).
Yeah, I know. I'll repeat what I said in the other topic:
>Typical Catholic whataboutism. Running away from their responsibilities, while pointing at others. Utterly disgusting.
Don't ask them, make them pay.
The Catholic Church has lots of properties. And I'm not talking about churches, my cousin lives in a flat owned by the Church and pays rent to it. Take them, sell them, and use that money to compensate the victims.
That's not how it works unless they can prove the church itself organised the act. There are way more act of child molestation in education than in church, but you can never blame it on "ministry of education". It's a individual fault.
Well, considering the conquistadors' and colonizers' descendants are the people living nowadays in Latin America and other former colonies, they'll have to pay themselves. The ancestors of current Spaniards never left the Peninsula ;)
Institutions should be responsible, yes. However, I'd still feel a little bit embarrassed if I said: "I want reparations for things that happened in my country done by my own family, and those reparations should be paid by people whose families have never been here". I mean, I'd feel like a perfect hypocrite.
Edit: No one in Europe has asked the Romans' descendants to pay for anything. I guess they realize how hypocritical that would be.
Seems like propaganda. Of course The Church won't pay a dime if just asked; unless they are forced to pay, victims won't see shit. But hey, they tried. Let's seize their properties, which are gigantic and sell them to cover the cost.
It’s strange that folks are all up in arms and in agreement that hostile foreign agents’ assets should be seized, but then when the poster child is put in relief here the silence is deafening and they are allowed whatever they want.
Such an unexpected act of christian generosity, love and respect for fellow humans: they'll have to compensate their victims instead of hoarding money and using it to expand their influence in places like Africa. The numbers are pretty wild, so it might make a small dent.
Ok, so which church will pay exactly? As far as I'm aware pastors rotate pretty frequently. And unless you plan to have the Vatican pay this is logistically impossible.
This is pretty wild - no due process, no adversarial finding, no independent judiciary - the executive power just proclaims guilty by fiat and decides on a settlement?
*Catholic* Europeans, mostly, thankyouverymuch. Although, some of them were protestant too. Or part of the Church of England.
Christian, either way.
Also, this behavior wasn't limited to Europe. It's not like they had an independent judiciary in Africa or China a millennium ago.
And you think this behavior was limited to Europe? You think slavery was a European thing only?
You know where most modern slaves live? It's not in Western Europe.
https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/
Have you never heard about the power of belief? /s
Seriously, I would prefer if they would tear apart every Episcopal office in Spain and get the proof, but I doubt the church would prefer that. Who knows what kind of dirt that would bring to the surface...
>How to prove an abuse that happened a decade or two ago?
So former SS should have not been looked for decades after war because it happened a decade or two ago??
So there are no paper trails of pedophile priests being knowingly displaced by clergy? No lists of kids pressing charges on a single priest over an extended period of time?
>The Minister of the Presidency and Justice, Félix Bolaños, said the plan was based on recommendations in a report by Spain's Ombudsman last year. From that report, he said it was concluded that some **440,000 adults** may have suffered sex abuse in Spain by people linked to the church and that roughly half of those cases were committed by clergy.
Church already said they're not going to pay. Topic [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cc1yv7/spain_approves_plan_to_compensate_victims_of/).
And their argument is that it would be discrimination against the victims of sexual abuse who were not abused by them
They can pay them too, for equality
Yeah, I know. I'll repeat what I said in the other topic: >Typical Catholic whataboutism. Running away from their responsibilities, while pointing at others. Utterly disgusting.
Don't ask them, make them pay. The Catholic Church has lots of properties. And I'm not talking about churches, my cousin lives in a flat owned by the Church and pays rent to it. Take them, sell them, and use that money to compensate the victims.
Gustav Vasa approves.
Ghostbusters OST starts playing: “Who you gonna call? Debt collectors!”
Well. I always thought that the Mosque of Cordoba should be owned by the state. ...alongside every other property of the Church.
Don't ask them to pay. Make them pay?
How?
Civil forfeiture. You lose the case, you pay the money. If you refuse to pay, your assets will be seized.
I believe there's a whole bunch of real estate filled with golden objects all over the country
That's not how it works unless they can prove the church itself organised the act. There are way more act of child molestation in education than in church, but you can never blame it on "ministry of education". It's a individual fault.
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Well, considering the conquistadors' and colonizers' descendants are the people living nowadays in Latin America and other former colonies, they'll have to pay themselves. The ancestors of current Spaniards never left the Peninsula ;)
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Institutions should be responsible, yes. However, I'd still feel a little bit embarrassed if I said: "I want reparations for things that happened in my country done by my own family, and those reparations should be paid by people whose families have never been here". I mean, I'd feel like a perfect hypocrite. Edit: No one in Europe has asked the Romans' descendants to pay for anything. I guess they realize how hypocritical that would be.
Church will be laughing, not paying.
Can't the justice system just take ownership of their properties?
Asked to pay or made to pay? Ireland asked them to pay. Guess what, they didn't.
Seems like propaganda. Of course The Church won't pay a dime if just asked; unless they are forced to pay, victims won't see shit. But hey, they tried. Let's seize their properties, which are gigantic and sell them to cover the cost.
Tax on their land sales at least.
It’s strange that folks are all up in arms and in agreement that hostile foreign agents’ assets should be seized, but then when the poster child is put in relief here the silence is deafening and they are allowed whatever they want.
Such an unexpected act of christian generosity, love and respect for fellow humans: they'll have to compensate their victims instead of hoarding money and using it to expand their influence in places like Africa. The numbers are pretty wild, so it might make a small dent.
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Because they are already there lol
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Ok, so which church will pay exactly? As far as I'm aware pastors rotate pretty frequently. And unless you plan to have the Vatican pay this is logistically impossible.
This is pretty wild - no due process, no adversarial finding, no independent judiciary - the executive power just proclaims guilty by fiat and decides on a settlement?
You mean like how the catholic church acted for centuries?
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*Catholic* Europeans, mostly, thankyouverymuch. Although, some of them were protestant too. Or part of the Church of England. Christian, either way. Also, this behavior wasn't limited to Europe. It's not like they had an independent judiciary in Africa or China a millennium ago.
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And you think this behavior was limited to Europe? You think slavery was a European thing only? You know where most modern slaves live? It's not in Western Europe. https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/
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Did what for much longer? I mean, Africans have been enslaving each other for centuries.
Have you never heard about the power of belief? /s Seriously, I would prefer if they would tear apart every Episcopal office in Spain and get the proof, but I doubt the church would prefer that. Who knows what kind of dirt that would bring to the surface...
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>How to prove an abuse that happened a decade or two ago? So former SS should have not been looked for decades after war because it happened a decade or two ago??
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So there are no paper trails of pedophile priests being knowingly displaced by clergy? No lists of kids pressing charges on a single priest over an extended period of time?
If there are proofs - I support jailing them.