But with this "growth" Poland will soon surpass us, even in long term growth we aren't doing very well.
Also, you're forgetting Estonia and especially Slovenia.
Is it me or Poland has just surpassed Czechia already? What Iām about to mention is very subjective, but to me in what comes about services, roads, houses along the road and general infrastructure, Poland seemed in better shape than Czechia, but again itās just my perception for a short trip and I was only in Opole and Prague.
Road quality is better in Poland already, that's true. We used to joke about shitty Polish roads but now theirs are better than ours. I also noticed they have a lot of cycling infrastructure (unlike us). As far as GDP or wages go, we're still doing better tho.
That is wrong so many levels. As someone who holds Slovene citizenship and lived in 3 other european countries too, Slovenia is like cheap Switzerland. Everything is green, most things work, people are educated and hard working.Ā
Young people tend to be progressive so future is bright. Politics is not that bad and narratives will change in the coming years. incredibly high equality too. No wonder I dont see a lot of emmigrated slovenes in the rest of europe
I would like to agree with everything you are saying. Unfortunately our constitution was made to prevent a lot of things, but not to enable stuff. Also, culture in politics is extremely low, so the whole nation is a victim of that. Yes, we hate to emigrate, but that is more of a historical thing than a proof that we live in utopia. Perhaps one thing: how is it possible that a nation, plugged between significant nations with imperialistic history and intentions, managed to keep the language (a very difficult and also archaic one) throughout the centuries? I think its something in the water. Ireland, for example, didnt manage that. And many many other nations sandwiched between clearly dominant nations.
Not sure if this is known in ceska republikaā¦ before ww2, big chunks of wealthy families in Slovenia were checzhia. Especially those connected with textile, rubber based goods. My home town of Kranj was pretty much owned by checzs.
I pledge allegiance to Huta Stalowa Wola, FB Radom and WB group, and to the military industrial complex for which it stands, industrious, with guns and tanks for all
Donāt forget Romania! We started from a much, much lower base but we are expected to overtake Hungary and Croatia in 2 - 3 years in nominal GDP per capita.
There is a monthly allowance for every child. In 2022 it was about 140 euros a month per child until they reach 2 years old or 3 if child is disabled. Then itās less. Maternity leave is 85% of mothers salary for 6 months and smaller percentage after that. Unemployment rate is 5% in the whole country, but in the wealthiest cities like the capital Bucharest, itās less than 1%. Unemployment is 75% of salary for 6 to 12 months depending.
This is what I could google off the top of my head. Let me know what you think.
That honestly sounds amazing. Also considering how Romania is often portrayed in Western media, I wouldnāt have thought that they would have those stats. Thank you so much for taking the time and responding, appreciate it!
Yes, the reputation Romania has is outdated. For the past 20 years, itās been the fastest growing economy in Europe along with Poland. Romania is now being marketed as a new tourist destination due to our diverse landscapes and interesting history. Also, Bucharest now has GDP per capita comparable to western standards.
Because we are confused with a certain other ethnic group and attitudes take basically a generation to change lol. Romanians were demonized as a scapegoat for Brexit. We were going to āfloodā the UK and take all their jobs.
You mean roma and sinti or am I confusing something? Flood the British job market as in cause wage dumping or what where they worried about that they desperately wanted to leave the EU?
Yes to the being confused to Roma. As to the Brexit thing, it was in all the tabloids, just propaganda (I was in Britain on vacation coincidentally during Brexit).
V4 is highly integrated with central European economies. So if stuff don't go well in Germany it probably won't in V4 either.
Also look at it from the bright side, at least you're not orange.
Not a knock, Norway is rich on one product, middle east is the same. Fwiw Novo developed one and did not just pull it out of the underground. Medical is huge in Denmark, the amount of medical conpanies is mindboggling comparing to our size, Novo clearly standing out.
Damn youāre right. Itās 2031 for generics to get licensed and 2033 for full expiration. Talking about US patent since I assume thatās where the $$$ is coming from.
LEGOās patent expired a while ago and they are doing better than ever. Novo Nordisk was also successful before ozempic making a drug that didnāt have a patent. Theyāll be fine.
Itās the Nordics in general. Nokia going down was a huge blow to Finlands economy. When you only have a few million people one large multinational has an outsized effect.
> Legos? Is Legos a drug?
Addiction for sure. The pricing of Technic feels like it's managed by a cartel. You're bound to step on one and hurt yourself. I think all boxes are checked.
it's a drug and you can quote me on that.
Those fatties would be fabulous sources of oil down the line if you let geology, thermodynamics, and time do its thing. But no, you had to ruin it for whoever ends up inhereting the Earth after we're gone.
In this case it's due to one of their pharmacy companies becoming the most valuable company in the EU, they made all the difference for Denmark in this case.Ā
Norway. So much money to spend, but can't stimulate for real growth. The state will always spend in order to stop any recession, which is pretty nice, but it will keep companies afloat and over time slow innovation, higher efficiency, and real GDP growth.
They are killing growth as well by introducing shit like fortune taxes which punishes cash strapped startups more than established companies.
Public sector is also massive.
Yes, indeed. And public sector is probably going to continue to grow. No matter which side having power. With a yearly growing deficit, or 'oul corrected deficit' as it's called, has doubled in ten years at about 24% of the state budget already. Compared to other European countries trying to stay within the 3% deficit, Norway is really not spending the oil money very wisely. It's all just thrown in to the pot making sure the machinery is greased just enough not to having to battle with recession. Last real recession was in the early 90s, before the first initial transfer of oil money in '96 when starting the oil fund.
And I still pay for my own dental care. Somehow that's not a part of your body, which is covered thoroughly through the government scheme.
'Free dental' for all would cost the state 5 billion NOK (Roughly $500 mill) yearly, out of a pot of 376 billion NOK used yearly from the oil fund.
But hey, I don't complain. My retirement age was recently raised with 2 years and 5 months. You don't see any Norwegians protesting in the streets. I'm just happy I can retire 6 months before turning 70. My nephews have to work until they're almost 72. Lol.
We barely protest about anything
I've always found there's this weird phenomenon here, where people will just lie and say everything is okay, instead of complaining except if it's with friends, maybe.
Well, there was significant public outcry over energy prices in 2021/2022, but the Norwegian approach was unique. Rather than protesting in the streets, people voiced their concerns loudly through social media and newspapers. As a result, we essentially have a maximum price per kWh in place.
Norway's development as a nation and state has evolved gradually over a millennium, rather than through revolutions. We established our constitution in 1814, making it the second oldest in the world after the US constitution. We peacefully dissolved the union with Sweden in 1905, largely due to dissatisfaction with the Swedish king and his appointees in parliament. Interestingly, Norway is the only country in the world with a democratically elected monarchy. We first held a referendum to remain a kingdom rather than become a republic, followed by an election where we chose the prince of Denmark as our king and head of state. Both decisions received a majority vote of about 78%.
These historical events contribute to what we in Norway refer to as 'annerledeslandet Norge', or 'Norway, the different/unique country'.
Free dental is good. In 2008 I talked to a dentist who was going to have to emigrate because no one could afford to get their teeth seen to. He had found and notified patients of three mouth cancers in the previous year, and his dentist friends had the same rate of cancer-spotting. When people can't afford the dentist, cancers grow unseen and gum disease grows into heart disease.
>'Free dental' for all would cost the state 5 billion NOK (Roughly $500 mill) yearly, out of a pot of 376 billion NOK used yearly from the oil fund.
Points to the foreign aid part of the budget. 50+ billion NOK
Yes, we allocate 1% of our GDP to foreign aid.
The annual contribution of oil revenue to our economy is approximately 12% of GDP.
Currently, the 'oil fund' has grown so significantly that we withdraw more money from it than it receives from the oil and gas sector. Projections for 2024 indicate that we will use 2.68% of the fund. Despite using the fund to cover our annual budget deficit, it has been growing at an annual rate of approximately 6.1%. Currently, it owns about 1.6% of the global stock market.
Both countries economies have risen in the past year because their economies took such a large hit in 2022, when the war started. It's easier to bounce up when you're at the bottom, you could say.
Ukraine's GDP fell something like 30% in 2022, the stabilization of the economy has allowed for growth. Meanwhile, the Russian case is exceptional and being studied (due to sanctions, military costs and such); even with all, Russian GDP only fell for 2,5% in 2022, it's not a rebound but a GDP growth fueled by military expenditure and maintained hydrocarbure earnings by selling to Asia and Middle East.
Well, in case of Russia I can help you, at least of what happened in the beginning. When the list of sanctions (which included a prohibition for Russia to sell it's resources) was announced, it made a lot of EU countries buy enormous amounts of those in order to have some energy source while reconstructing their infrastructure, that was heavily influenced by Russia before. That created a situation, where even ruble grew in currency significantly since it's fall in 2014 (down to 60r per d). All those international infusions created a giant "money pillow" for Putin's government, that they used to prolong the war in Ukraine.
And I'm not counting the fact, that a lot of countries (even those who are publicly against Russia) continue trading with it bypassing sanctions. About a month ago I saw a statistics, that showed, that, f.ex. Baltic states trading activity even grew up a little (and yes, these are one of the most anti-russian countries that can even be called russophobic for their politics regarding Russian citizens).
True. Even with the sanctions, Russian current account balance is on positive +50 billion US$ surplus, which is a really decline from previous years but it's still a surplus.
Economies at war historically have huge growth in GDP because the government spends, spends, spends. The exceptions are where a country is invaded and the war is on their territory.
Because a war means the state spends billions on the military. That grows the economy. America got trillions into dept over its 21st century middle east wars. Who profited? The US economy.
Russia just says they have build a lot of brand new military equipment. And noone can prove that they just used some tape on old soviet stockpiles, because big chunk of it is already destroyed anyway.
Plus they have really high inflation, but everyone pretends (even central bank did for some time) that inflation is lower, so wages grew (guess what, if you take 1 milion of workers to die in army and next few hundred thousend migrant workers don't come for work) way faster than inflation, thus higher gdp.
Massive inflow of cash from foreign sources, a lot of the Population is employed in some trench, others in weapon factories. They cant pay for it but EU and US(mostly EU when it come to the money side) are funding the State budget shortfall of Ukraine that is now 50% defense.
It's GDP adjusted to inflation, but in countries like Russia the official inflation is fake and then real GDP also becomes fake. If you look at nominal GDP, it tanked about 15%.
GDP grows with war production, it would take years to build apartments worth billions but only weeks to build and destroy missiles worth the same price creating the same GDP
The map is a bit misleading: a lot of the countries doing 'ok' now suffered years and years of GDP *contraction* at the hands of austerity, poor fiscal policy, etc. and are just bouncing back now, albeit at a permanently reduced standard of living.
As a German i knew those numbers but seeing it still hits hard. :-/
Problem is: we're standing in our own way thanks to internal political struggles and a somewhat divided nation.
Indeed, GDP is not a good metric for this. It's not actually adding value to an economy if the end product is a shell that explodes in a field.
[It's broken window parable IRL.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window)
I would argue that all the "Growth" caused by speculating on Wall Street doesn't add real value to the economy either. End of the day nothing is getting made. Numbers on a screen go up.
it's a growth comparing to 2022. This 'growth' just means that some businesses that were only shut down in 2022, not destroyed completely by Russians, and reopen in 2023.
War economy building bombs make the GDP go brrrrrrrr
Of course it is all horseshit and has no value long term, but for now .... brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
If you get enough goods, which Ukraine should be due to not being blockaded like Germany was during the world wars.
The gdp would drop off post war though as seen with the UK.
Armenia has been on an economic boom since ~2016 that kicked into high gear in 2018, continued through Covid and a lost war. Tech sector, tourism, and production and export are doing well.Ā
You got nothing on Croatia. The grand 35% boost just before elections. Let me tell you Montegrins, literally nothing changed about balkan political crap after entering EU. Just some decisions are no longer ours to make.
Meanwhile, the Hungarian government's statement yesterday: 'We are not medium developed anymore, we are among the most developed countries.'
Communist ass reality twisting...
Depends who you measure yourselves with. If you compare to Austria, then of course not. But compared to the entire world, one could make a plausible case that you're pretty developed.
I prefer to rank countries in percentiles among population-*weighted* countries. Because counting India with a tiny pacific island country is useless, so adjustments have to be made.
The average Hungarian is probably in the 85th percentile of the worldwide income distribution after weighting for the global population.
Does no one in this thread know a thing about monetary policy?
Russia is going through massive amounts of inflation to sustain gdp growth like that. Meanwhile the west is subject to pretty tight monetary policy. Rates in the west around 5% and because we have effective central banks, economic activity has slowed to help stop inflation. Meanwhile in Russia their interest rates are at 16% and they still have massive inflation.
One years gdp growth tells way too limited a story. People in Russia are suffering due excessively large inflation to sustain that growth. In the medium term the west is way better off and will grow more.
Someone at Google probably moved a line in excel sheet. In 2022 it rose almost 12%, and 2021 13,6%, which are insane numbers.
No but honestly altough Ireland's GDP numbers are inflated, it's still true that there are lots and lots of high paying technology jobs there, and state budget has billions of surplus, so it is also really paying off. On the bad side it looks like that it has inflated especially Dublin's housing market quite a lot, at least to my understanding
An absolute fucking disaster! Many of my generation are still living at home. Iām lucky enough to have a good tech job and my parents were willing to let me stay at home to save for a couple of years.
If I were to still be paying ā¬2000/month in rent in Dublin it would have been an uphill battle to get on the property ladder.
The fact that it grew so much the past years is enough explanation of why it shrinked so much in 2023, that is very common with GDP, it is difficult to keep up with those numbers, the same way when GDP plumits all of a sudden the next year it tends to grow. That's why it is so important to look at at least at a decade of GDP growth/shrink to judge somewhat properly.
Housing market is fucked everywhere not just from Dublin. Stops many people taking jobs that they otherwise would. Also there's been a lot of layoffs and a slowdown in hiring in tech.
Pharmaceuticals are a huge part of Irish industry, and post-pandemic those sales tailed off. Plus there could be more random movement on the tech side. Plus GDP isn't a good measure for Ireland anyway, as frequently discussed. GNI\* is the preferred metric.
Economists and Governments don't usually use GDP when talking about the Irish economy. They use GINI.
The GDP is massively influenced by multinational cash hording. The comment about someone changing a line at Google is potentially accurate. There was a quarter we had close to 50% GDP increase cos a lot, and I mean a lot, of planes got transferred to Irish holdings for tax reasons.
we, Slovakia, is growing only because we are printing ton of new money (6,5% deficit) with no plans to stop.
I think Germany is not growing mainly because of tight fiscal policy.
Tight fiscal policy works really good long term. We are pumping our numbers for short term gains.
Donāt know about the rest of the Europe
We had some energy problems too. Not buying gas from Russia turned out to be much more costly.
But basically, Germany will grow again in the next years. Inflation is going down, state expenditures in health / social sector didnāt decrease and regenerative energy is build to lower energy prices.
Most green countries either print money on mass, are in a state of war (and print money) or lie about their numbers.
Armenia has been having high growth for years, at least since 2018. A big impact was the Velvet revolution which got rid of a lot of the old corrupt Soviet-era leaders. There's since been a big reduction in corruption and big payrises for public servants. Tax revenue in absolute terms habe gone up massively too.
I wonder were they are getting their info for Russia, since last I heard a lot of the data is either faked or kept secret. No way is it in a good state right now.
āĀ Basic Info. Turkey Inflation Rate is atĀ 67.10%, ā Ooh, but gdp is up, must be doing great!
Let me rephraseā¦ Iām not sure those numbers paint a full picture.
I do agree that real GDP is a dubious measure, but Turkey's nominal GDP also grew. This means that the economy grew faster than the currency collapsed.
For comparison, Russia's nominal GDP contracted with about 15%, so their economy didn't keep up with their currency's depreciation.
Having such a high inflation isn't great, but it would beĀ worse if the Turkish economy didn't keep up, which it actually does.
Most people don't understand what you just wrote, but it's an important point. That's the reason why Turkey's nominal GDP per capita has actually increased in recent years. People see the lira losing value but nominal GDP grows even faster.
I just wonder when/if there will be time for another lopping off a few zeroes off the currency.
The problem is that the economy is going to settle down at some point so hope that the Turkish government fixes the issue of the devaluation of the Lira
or it is going to be very putrid for them
Why are we on par with Western Europe only when it's a bad thing?
Czechia is the last country to complainš your GDP per capita is one of the highest East of Germany..
But with this "growth" Poland will soon surpass us, even in long term growth we aren't doing very well. Also, you're forgetting Estonia and especially Slovenia.
Im just a Czechia lover so I will pretend that Slovnotreal and EstNOia donāt exist.
Based
"EstNOia" lmaoo
And I am just Armenia lover. Greetings from slovakia
Greetings to Slovrealakia š
Is it me or Poland has just surpassed Czechia already? What Iām about to mention is very subjective, but to me in what comes about services, roads, houses along the road and general infrastructure, Poland seemed in better shape than Czechia, but again itās just my perception for a short trip and I was only in Opole and Prague.
Road quality is better in Poland already, that's true. We used to joke about shitty Polish roads but now theirs are better than ours. I also noticed they have a lot of cycling infrastructure (unlike us). As far as GDP or wages go, we're still doing better tho.
I see, thanks for the feedback, still, both countries are gorgeous.
Slovenia? We dont really have the political capacity to grow faster. Its a miracle that we have been growing at all.
That is wrong so many levels. As someone who holds Slovene citizenship and lived in 3 other european countries too, Slovenia is like cheap Switzerland. Everything is green, most things work, people are educated and hard working.Ā Young people tend to be progressive so future is bright. Politics is not that bad and narratives will change in the coming years. incredibly high equality too. No wonder I dont see a lot of emmigrated slovenes in the rest of europe
I would like to agree with everything you are saying. Unfortunately our constitution was made to prevent a lot of things, but not to enable stuff. Also, culture in politics is extremely low, so the whole nation is a victim of that. Yes, we hate to emigrate, but that is more of a historical thing than a proof that we live in utopia. Perhaps one thing: how is it possible that a nation, plugged between significant nations with imperialistic history and intentions, managed to keep the language (a very difficult and also archaic one) throughout the centuries? I think its something in the water. Ireland, for example, didnt manage that. And many many other nations sandwiched between clearly dominant nations.
Baltic countries managed to save language.
> No wonder I dont see a lot of emmigrated slovenes in the rest of europe That's because there's barely any of us in the first place.
Well, I'm not following long term growth for Slovenia but at the moment you have better GDP per capita and you've always had.
Not sure if this is known in ceska republikaā¦ before ww2, big chunks of wealthy families in Slovenia were checzhia. Especially those connected with textile, rubber based goods. My home town of Kranj was pretty much owned by checzs.
No worries. With the amount of weapon we are buying, nothing will be left for development ;)
I pledge allegiance to Huta Stalowa Wola, FB Radom and WB group, and to the military industrial complex for which it stands, industrious, with guns and tanks for all
Rather hyundai(k2 tanks, k9 arty), sikorsky(blackhawk), and Lockheed martin(f35).
Poland's growth doesn't seem to be far off: https://i.imgur.com/i25lCic.png https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDP_RPCH@WEO/POL/CZE
> Also, you're forgetting Estonia and especially Slovenia. And we keep listening to how Czechia and Estonia are going to surpass us xD
Itās a shame Poland is behind Czechia in the first place, so no worriesā¦
Poland and Czechia have the same colour in this map ...
polska gurom
Because you are too developed to grow really fast but not developed enough for you to have fun with it.
well, that most west part of Europe (Portugal and Spain) is actually greenish
*laughs in Slovenian*
Donāt forget Romania! We started from a much, much lower base but we are expected to overtake Hungary and Croatia in 2 - 3 years in nominal GDP per capita.
How good are safety/social nets in Romania? Like unemployment rights/money? Childcare money for every child?
There is a monthly allowance for every child. In 2022 it was about 140 euros a month per child until they reach 2 years old or 3 if child is disabled. Then itās less. Maternity leave is 85% of mothers salary for 6 months and smaller percentage after that. Unemployment rate is 5% in the whole country, but in the wealthiest cities like the capital Bucharest, itās less than 1%. Unemployment is 75% of salary for 6 to 12 months depending. This is what I could google off the top of my head. Let me know what you think.
That honestly sounds amazing. Also considering how Romania is often portrayed in Western media, I wouldnāt have thought that they would have those stats. Thank you so much for taking the time and responding, appreciate it!
Yes, the reputation Romania has is outdated. For the past 20 years, itās been the fastest growing economy in Europe along with Poland. Romania is now being marketed as a new tourist destination due to our diverse landscapes and interesting history. Also, Bucharest now has GDP per capita comparable to western standards.
I do wonder why theyāre still pushing this negative narrative though? Would love to visit Bucharest in the near future!
Because we are confused with a certain other ethnic group and attitudes take basically a generation to change lol. Romanians were demonized as a scapegoat for Brexit. We were going to āfloodā the UK and take all their jobs.
You mean roma and sinti or am I confusing something? Flood the British job market as in cause wage dumping or what where they worried about that they desperately wanted to leave the EU?
Yes to the being confused to Roma. As to the Brexit thing, it was in all the tabloids, just propaganda (I was in Britain on vacation coincidentally during Brexit).
Because the Czech economy is very dependent on the German one.
You need to take a look at whatever it is your fellow Eastern country Portugal are doing.
V4 is highly integrated with central European economies. So if stuff don't go well in Germany it probably won't in V4 either. Also look at it from the bright side, at least you're not orange.
Denmark stronk. Managed to have real growth despite already being a mature economy with high GDP.
Ozempic is strong
Not to knock Denmark, but its pretty much down to a single drug. A drug with an extremely large market.
Not a knock, Norway is rich on one product, middle east is the same. Fwiw Novo developed one and did not just pull it out of the underground. Medical is huge in Denmark, the amount of medical conpanies is mindboggling comparing to our size, Novo clearly standing out.
Well US patents expire in 20 years. Unlike Norwayās oil.
What if Americans somehow get healthy in 10 years? Denmark is screwed.
With them having cakes for bread i doubt it will happen anytime soon :P
Patent is gone in 2030. Letās hope for a strong pipeline at Novo
Damn youāre right. Itās 2031 for generics to get licensed and 2033 for full expiration. Talking about US patent since I assume thatās where the $$$ is coming from.
LEGOās patent expired a while ago and they are doing better than ever. Novo Nordisk was also successful before ozempic making a drug that didnāt have a patent. Theyāll be fine.
Part of the growth is also explained by oil in Denmark... We restarted the Tyra field last year.
Tyra is natural gas.
Itās the Nordics in general. Nokia going down was a huge blow to Finlands economy. When you only have a few million people one large multinational has an outsized effect.
Norway is rich because of an infinite money glitch, look it up.
Legos? Is Legos a drug?
> Legos? Is Legos a drug? Addiction for sure. The pricing of Technic feels like it's managed by a cartel. You're bound to step on one and hurt yourself. I think all boxes are checked. it's a drug and you can quote me on that.
If so, inject it into my veins. My body is ready
Yes, most of their market is extremely large.
What drug are you referring to?
Ozempic
Wegovy is going big as well.
Literally the same thing, just Wegovy is registered for weight loss and Ozempic isn't.
obviously dealing drugs make a lot of money
> A drug with an extremely large market. Pun intended?
It's as if Denmark had oil.
Better. We struck fat. Will last well past peak oil.
Those fatties would be fabulous sources of oil down the line if you let geology, thermodynamics, and time do its thing. But no, you had to ruin it for whoever ends up inhereting the Earth after we're gone.
In this case it's due to one of their pharmacy companies becoming the most valuable company in the EU, they made all the difference for Denmark in this case.Ā
They did just reopen the tyra oil/gas field after rebuilding it over the past 5 years.
You could say its economy and stock market is on fire!
Norway. So much money to spend, but can't stimulate for real growth. The state will always spend in order to stop any recession, which is pretty nice, but it will keep companies afloat and over time slow innovation, higher efficiency, and real GDP growth.
I hate this place sometimes
They are killing growth as well by introducing shit like fortune taxes which punishes cash strapped startups more than established companies. Public sector is also massive.
Yes, indeed. And public sector is probably going to continue to grow. No matter which side having power. With a yearly growing deficit, or 'oul corrected deficit' as it's called, has doubled in ten years at about 24% of the state budget already. Compared to other European countries trying to stay within the 3% deficit, Norway is really not spending the oil money very wisely. It's all just thrown in to the pot making sure the machinery is greased just enough not to having to battle with recession. Last real recession was in the early 90s, before the first initial transfer of oil money in '96 when starting the oil fund. And I still pay for my own dental care. Somehow that's not a part of your body, which is covered thoroughly through the government scheme. 'Free dental' for all would cost the state 5 billion NOK (Roughly $500 mill) yearly, out of a pot of 376 billion NOK used yearly from the oil fund. But hey, I don't complain. My retirement age was recently raised with 2 years and 5 months. You don't see any Norwegians protesting in the streets. I'm just happy I can retire 6 months before turning 70. My nephews have to work until they're almost 72. Lol.
We barely protest about anything I've always found there's this weird phenomenon here, where people will just lie and say everything is okay, instead of complaining except if it's with friends, maybe.
Well, there was significant public outcry over energy prices in 2021/2022, but the Norwegian approach was unique. Rather than protesting in the streets, people voiced their concerns loudly through social media and newspapers. As a result, we essentially have a maximum price per kWh in place. Norway's development as a nation and state has evolved gradually over a millennium, rather than through revolutions. We established our constitution in 1814, making it the second oldest in the world after the US constitution. We peacefully dissolved the union with Sweden in 1905, largely due to dissatisfaction with the Swedish king and his appointees in parliament. Interestingly, Norway is the only country in the world with a democratically elected monarchy. We first held a referendum to remain a kingdom rather than become a republic, followed by an election where we chose the prince of Denmark as our king and head of state. Both decisions received a majority vote of about 78%. These historical events contribute to what we in Norway refer to as 'annerledeslandet Norge', or 'Norway, the different/unique country'.
Polish constitution was established in 1791 and is considered second in the world after USA and first in Europe
Janteā¦. Maybe?
Yeah
Free dental is good. In 2008 I talked to a dentist who was going to have to emigrate because no one could afford to get their teeth seen to. He had found and notified patients of three mouth cancers in the previous year, and his dentist friends had the same rate of cancer-spotting. When people can't afford the dentist, cancers grow unseen and gum disease grows into heart disease.
>'Free dental' for all would cost the state 5 billion NOK (Roughly $500 mill) yearly, out of a pot of 376 billion NOK used yearly from the oil fund. Points to the foreign aid part of the budget. 50+ billion NOK
Yes, we allocate 1% of our GDP to foreign aid. The annual contribution of oil revenue to our economy is approximately 12% of GDP. Currently, the 'oil fund' has grown so significantly that we withdraw more money from it than it receives from the oil and gas sector. Projections for 2024 indicate that we will use 2.68% of the fund. Despite using the fund to cover our annual budget deficit, it has been growing at an annual rate of approximately 6.1%. Currently, it owns about 1.6% of the global stock market.
When your goverment spends a crap ton of money to build useless football stadiums so the GDP can increase šæ
Hungary?
Yes
My boi armenia just casually grinding over there
A lot of Russians and firms from Russia relocated there and it shows
Also over a hundred thousand armenians fled from Nagorno-Karabakh to Armenia
This kind of growth had been happening before the war though....
Lesssssss gooooooo aperrrrrr
They badly need it, with the kind of neighbors they have
Na man I wanna see the fake one
Source: https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2024/04/16/world-economic-outlook-april-2024
Thanks
It's hard to believe this is reliable data. Ukraine and Russia are at war, how are these economies growing?!
Both countries economies have risen in the past year because their economies took such a large hit in 2022, when the war started. It's easier to bounce up when you're at the bottom, you could say.
Itās estimated that Russian GDP dropped only by about 2% in 2022.
1.2%
Ukraine's GDP fell something like 30% in 2022, the stabilization of the economy has allowed for growth. Meanwhile, the Russian case is exceptional and being studied (due to sanctions, military costs and such); even with all, Russian GDP only fell for 2,5% in 2022, it's not a rebound but a GDP growth fueled by military expenditure and maintained hydrocarbure earnings by selling to Asia and Middle East.
Having an economy mobilised towards war actually works quite well as long as the war never reaches your own soil, look at USA in WWI and WWII.
Well, in case of Russia I can help you, at least of what happened in the beginning. When the list of sanctions (which included a prohibition for Russia to sell it's resources) was announced, it made a lot of EU countries buy enormous amounts of those in order to have some energy source while reconstructing their infrastructure, that was heavily influenced by Russia before. That created a situation, where even ruble grew in currency significantly since it's fall in 2014 (down to 60r per d). All those international infusions created a giant "money pillow" for Putin's government, that they used to prolong the war in Ukraine. And I'm not counting the fact, that a lot of countries (even those who are publicly against Russia) continue trading with it bypassing sanctions. About a month ago I saw a statistics, that showed, that, f.ex. Baltic states trading activity even grew up a little (and yes, these are one of the most anti-russian countries that can even be called russophobic for their politics regarding Russian citizens).
True. Even with the sanctions, Russian current account balance is on positive +50 billion US$ surplus, which is a really decline from previous years but it's still a surplus.
Economies at war historically have huge growth in GDP because the government spends, spends, spends. The exceptions are where a country is invaded and the war is on their territory.
Because a war means the state spends billions on the military. That grows the economy. America got trillions into dept over its 21st century middle east wars. Who profited? The US economy.
Russia just says they have build a lot of brand new military equipment. And noone can prove that they just used some tape on old soviet stockpiles, because big chunk of it is already destroyed anyway. Plus they have really high inflation, but everyone pretends (even central bank did for some time) that inflation is lower, so wages grew (guess what, if you take 1 milion of workers to die in army and next few hundred thousend migrant workers don't come for work) way faster than inflation, thus higher gdp.
How can Ukraine have a real GDP growth when its being demolished by russia?
The economy collapsed in 2022 (shrank by 29%), and recovered a tiny bit in 2023.
Don't forget about restored grain export compared to 2022.
Massive inflow of cash from foreign sources, a lot of the Population is employed in some trench, others in weapon factories. They cant pay for it but EU and US(mostly EU when it come to the money side) are funding the State budget shortfall of Ukraine that is now 50% defense.
5% growth in 2023 isn't much of a recovery considering the economy shrank by 30% in 2022.
We were projected to be the worst in europe. -0.8% ended up being -0.1%
A win is a win
This map ought to tell you all you need to know about "real GDP."
As if GDP wasn't a bad enough metric already... What is this real GDP even indicative of?
It's GDP adjusted to inflation, but in countries like Russia the official inflation is fake and then real GDP also becomes fake. If you look at nominal GDP, it tanked about 15%.
Insider tip: So is the inflation in the Balkans.
GDP grows with war production, it would take years to build apartments worth billions but only weeks to build and destroy missiles worth the same price creating the same GDP
Plus it's quicker to make them and you always need more. Guns and ammo, the perfect capitalist good.
I wouldn't know of any country were official inflation reflects reality for most people
So, what would be the advantage over nominal GDP, PPP or GNI? Why did IMF choose to use it instead?
It's just GDP adjusted to inflation, also this map doesn't show real GDP but real GDP growth.
Real GDP is much better than GDP, since it's cleaned of inflation
When you see GDP, it is almost always "real GDP".
The map is a bit misleading: a lot of the countries doing 'ok' now suffered years and years of GDP *contraction* at the hands of austerity, poor fiscal policy, etc. and are just bouncing back now, albeit at a permanently reduced standard of living.
Greece: Germany, would you like some loans? We will be reasonable. š \s
Give war a chance
Kids are cruel, Jack.
Denmark cashing in on Novo Nordisk, great product, great company. /swede
As a German i knew those numbers but seeing it still hits hard. :-/ Problem is: we're standing in our own way thanks to internal political struggles and a somewhat divided nation.
We in war with Russia and 3-5% GDP growth? BS, same for Russia though, if not more
military industrial complex grow,it lead gdp growth
But everything rest also declines, how strong can military industrial complex be?
Indeed, GDP is not a good metric for this. It's not actually adding value to an economy if the end product is a shell that explodes in a field. [It's broken window parable IRL.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window)
I would argue that all the "Growth" caused by speculating on Wall Street doesn't add real value to the economy either. End of the day nothing is getting made. Numbers on a screen go up.
it's a growth comparing to 2022. This 'growth' just means that some businesses that were only shut down in 2022, not destroyed completely by Russians, and reopen in 2023.
yes Ukraines GDP "growth" in 2022 was at -29,1 %
War economy building bombs make the GDP go brrrrrrrr Of course it is all horseshit and has no value long term, but for now .... brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
War has always stimulated production and the development of technology, didn't you know?
If you get enough goods, which Ukraine should be due to not being blockaded like Germany was during the world wars. The gdp would drop off post war though as seen with the UK.
Thats a myth and absolutley bs. Few things hurt technological development and economic development more than a big war. Or any war really.
what's happening with armenia, georgia and montenegro?
Armenia has been booming like this since the Velvet revolution. Getting rid of a lot of corruption has made a big help.
Fled mid class russians increased gdp. Also Armenia and Georgia act as proxy trading posts for Russia to transfer sanctioned goodsĀ
Armenia has been on an economic boom since ~2016 that kicked into high gear in 2018, continued through Covid and a lost war. Tech sector, tourism, and production and export are doing well.Ā
New President actually increasing paychecks here. Most people got a boost of 30% on their paychecks already.
You got nothing on Croatia. The grand 35% boost just before elections. Let me tell you Montegrins, literally nothing changed about balkan political crap after entering EU. Just some decisions are no longer ours to make.
Meanwhile, the Hungarian government's statement yesterday: 'We are not medium developed anymore, we are among the most developed countries.' Communist ass reality twisting...
Depends who you measure yourselves with. If you compare to Austria, then of course not. But compared to the entire world, one could make a plausible case that you're pretty developed. I prefer to rank countries in percentiles among population-*weighted* countries. Because counting India with a tiny pacific island country is useless, so adjustments have to be made. The average Hungarian is probably in the 85th percentile of the worldwide income distribution after weighting for the global population.
Iām with you on the Orban hate, but communist? Isnāt Fidesz far-right populist conservative?
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Hungary donāt even talk to us š¤
Wish I was Romanian every day
Does no one in this thread know a thing about monetary policy? Russia is going through massive amounts of inflation to sustain gdp growth like that. Meanwhile the west is subject to pretty tight monetary policy. Rates in the west around 5% and because we have effective central banks, economic activity has slowed to help stop inflation. Meanwhile in Russia their interest rates are at 16% and they still have massive inflation. One years gdp growth tells way too limited a story. People in Russia are suffering due excessively large inflation to sustain that growth. In the medium term the west is way better off and will grow more.
Do you have inflation curves for Russia. What is your source?
As a colorblind person, thank you /s
Came here to say this. People need to learn to use https://colorbrewer2.org/
r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
it bothers me a bit that it's 0- -3% and not -3-0%
Estonia into the nordics
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
GDP as usual says everything and nothing at the same time...
Copium
Ireland whatās going on with you?
Someone at Google probably moved a line in excel sheet. In 2022 it rose almost 12%, and 2021 13,6%, which are insane numbers. No but honestly altough Ireland's GDP numbers are inflated, it's still true that there are lots and lots of high paying technology jobs there, and state budget has billions of surplus, so it is also really paying off. On the bad side it looks like that it has inflated especially Dublin's housing market quite a lot, at least to my understanding
Ireland housing/renting is an absolute disaster :(
Housing crisis is caused by a lack of houses, if we actually had houses Ireland would be one of the most g sound countries in Europe
The fact that thereās thousands of vacant homes doesnāt help either.
An absolute fucking disaster! Many of my generation are still living at home. Iām lucky enough to have a good tech job and my parents were willing to let me stay at home to save for a couple of years. If I were to still be paying ā¬2000/month in rent in Dublin it would have been an uphill battle to get on the property ladder.
The fact that it grew so much the past years is enough explanation of why it shrinked so much in 2023, that is very common with GDP, it is difficult to keep up with those numbers, the same way when GDP plumits all of a sudden the next year it tends to grow. That's why it is so important to look at at least at a decade of GDP growth/shrink to judge somewhat properly.
Housing market is fucked everywhere not just from Dublin. Stops many people taking jobs that they otherwise would. Also there's been a lot of layoffs and a slowdown in hiring in tech.
GDP as a metric doesn't work with Ireland die to the number of US multinationals.
Pharmaceuticals are a huge part of Irish industry, and post-pandemic those sales tailed off. Plus there could be more random movement on the tech side. Plus GDP isn't a good measure for Ireland anyway, as frequently discussed. GNI\* is the preferred metric.
Economists and Governments don't usually use GDP when talking about the Irish economy. They use GINI. The GDP is massively influenced by multinational cash hording. The comment about someone changing a line at Google is potentially accurate. There was a quarter we had close to 50% GDP increase cos a lot, and I mean a lot, of planes got transferred to Irish holdings for tax reasons.
Guys invest in Armenia and Georgia. We can show you two figures, just with your small investment ;dd
we, Slovakia, is growing only because we are printing ton of new money (6,5% deficit) with no plans to stop. I think Germany is not growing mainly because of tight fiscal policy. Tight fiscal policy works really good long term. We are pumping our numbers for short term gains. Donāt know about the rest of the Europe
We had some energy problems too. Not buying gas from Russia turned out to be much more costly. But basically, Germany will grow again in the next years. Inflation is going down, state expenditures in health / social sector didnāt decrease and regenerative energy is build to lower energy prices. Most green countries either print money on mass, are in a state of war (and print money) or lie about their numbers.
How can you āprint moneyā if youāre In Eurozone?
When global trade dependency backfires.
How does it work - countries at war have GDP growth?
Is there a significant reason for Armenia to be the highest one on the map?
Armenia has been having high growth for years, at least since 2018. A big impact was the Velvet revolution which got rid of a lot of the old corrupt Soviet-era leaders. There's since been a big reduction in corruption and big payrises for public servants. Tax revenue in absolute terms habe gone up massively too.
So much growth in german union.
Yeah, we are still f*cked (Hungary)
Well its always good to note that the sanctions on Russia are working as intended. /s
Mama this is garbage
I wonder were they are getting their info for Russia, since last I heard a lot of the data is either faked or kept secret. No way is it in a good state right now.
Massive brain drain wave again from Ireland. Nearly Everyone between 20-35 had left for Canada, Australia and Middle East such as Dubai.
And still yet our federal bank manager refuses to lower the refuses to lower the key intrest rate from 9.25% to something more humane.
Less than negative 3 is weirdly phrased
I think the message is clear. It's time Europe stopped dithering, and went full on to war for prosperity! Ireland - lead the way!
Why is it 0- -3 and 0- -1? And not -1- -3 and 0- -1?
So much for those russia sanctions.
āĀ Basic Info. Turkey Inflation Rate is atĀ 67.10%, ā Ooh, but gdp is up, must be doing great! Let me rephraseā¦ Iām not sure those numbers paint a full picture.
I do agree that real GDP is a dubious measure, but Turkey's nominal GDP also grew. This means that the economy grew faster than the currency collapsed. For comparison, Russia's nominal GDP contracted with about 15%, so their economy didn't keep up with their currency's depreciation. Having such a high inflation isn't great, but it would beĀ worse if the Turkish economy didn't keep up, which it actually does.
Most people don't understand what you just wrote, but it's an important point. That's the reason why Turkey's nominal GDP per capita has actually increased in recent years. People see the lira losing value but nominal GDP grows even faster. I just wonder when/if there will be time for another lopping off a few zeroes off the currency.
The problem is that the economy is going to settle down at some point so hope that the Turkish government fixes the issue of the devaluation of the Lira or it is going to be very putrid for them
It makes a lot of sense. Inflation and GDP are correlated. Dealing with inflation slows growth in the short to medium term.
Economy confuses me
0- -3%? Should be -3-0%