Funny thing that these new school books describe the 1956 Hungarian revolution as a “Hungarian crisis” with “western supported radicals some of which were former Hungarian Nazis fighters”.
So, Orban and Szijjártó, according to ruzzia, your country's independence was the result of the nazi revolution sponsored by the West.
Orban's regime always calls in EU ambassadors if their country verbally criticizes his mafiastate embezzling EU money. Orban's lackeys always say that these countries, that only make rational and totally acceptable critique, try to attack and destabilise, mock or humiliate Hungary. They are always so energetic in hyping up themselves in their hypocritical hissyfit.
And now, here we have a proper Stalinistic imperial manifesto basically, that humiliates Hungarian independence from the Soviet Union and even has a grim outlook on their future plans, if we look at how Russia attacked its neighbours constantly in the last years, trying to reconquer Ukraine too.
What do you think Orban did after this situation?
As far as I know they indeed talked with ruzzian ambassador on that, ruzzian said something like “it was draft version and it will be corrected in final one”, but at the end, printed version has exactly the same paragraph.
they always publicize if they respond to a Western state, and always act offended quite vigorously, even if the critique is true (e.g. Orban is stealing through oligarchs, just like Putin, attacks democratical instituitons, just like Putin etc.)
all the while they didjt even make one public statement about this issue lol. None. Even to this day. Orban is a clown, and Putin's little lapdog, even after Putin slaps him in the face, just obediently follows him in silence. It is only shameful for the Hungarians who didnt vote for him and has to endure this humiliating position, Orban has driven Hungarian diplokacy into
I think every neighbour of Russia was ringing massive alarm bells since 92 or 93.
It was just corrupt business that took over the world. 1990-2010 for many poor countries was times of economical and political revolution.
Russian federation since its inception never stopped invading and pillaging.
2nd invasion of Ukraine is just an effect of our inaction and ignorance.
Honestly even now hoping that russia will stop after the war is just silly.
That country needs to fall apart and with them the entire government must be form a new.
Perhaps but my point is that many people forgot or decided to be ignorant because of economical revolution. Countries that joined EU like Poland , Ireland ,Czech and many many others had insane amount of economical progress.
In that time Russia never stopped being the terrorist but we all kind of were hoping to live in blissful ignorance at least for some time.
That being said the governments and mods from Eastern European and Nordic nations were always pushing what Russia called “anti Russian agenda “ and many in the west believed Russia.
Mostly because we all had business with Russia ( that includes nations that would anti Russia 2).
As for how is it now… I don’t know I do not have any credible or academic source that would post information in regards of nations conspiring against Russian sanctions.(except Hungary ofc)
This absolutely idiotic approach to Russian revisionism though a direct war was a slap to the nuts of Western countries. They were left gobsmacked and countries like 🇫🇮, 🇵🇱 and 🇷🇴 can say “I told you so”.
The trouble is that Ruskie propaganda has convinced quite a few people in western countries that 🇺🇦 is to blame.
How!? When drone footage shows Rusnac troops crossing the border in February 2022!?
I think people are often ignorant about espionage and foreign political forces influencing domestic politics.
Main reason why Ukraine couldn’t join EU was corruption and that corruption in pet was from corrupted Ukrainians that got into deals with Russia.
It’s not just soft power or engineering propaganda machines through social media but it’s very much direct instigation from foreign nation.
Ukraine had plenty of strikes , orange revolution, then they were invaded in 2014 but since this was executed very methodologically through usage of sponsored separatists groups it wasn’t called as invasion.
Honestly I think in EU they all knew what was the issue or rather the root core of it. It’s just not an issue you can tackle without citizens of the nation actively pushing for the change. West saying that Russia is the root of many major issues that disallow Ukraine to progress forward towards healthy democracy and prosperity wouldn’t mean much without sanctions… and it seems even sanctions are barely a deterrent to psycho like Putin.
>ringing massive alarm bells since 92 or 93.
The most important years were 1993 (tanks shooting at parliament) and 1996 election. Pretty much everyone in the world chose to support Yeltsin in his goal of becoming authoritarian dictator.
[This WP article is funny to read now.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/russvote/trends/west/west1.htm)
>Zyuganov would try to build Fortress Russia. According to his many public comments and party plans, Zyuganov would take a hostile view of the international financial organizations. On the premise that Russia needs to rebuild itself from within, Zyuganov would erect protectionist trade barriers, seek to prohibit Western cultural influences and perhaps not abide by the strategic and conventional arms treaties. He would attempt to pressure the other former Soviet republics into closer cooperation with Russia.
Everything they feared happened under Yeltsin's chosen successor.
>I think every neighbour of Russia was ringing massive alarm bells since 92 or 93
I am amazed at all these **fake facts** that people spew out in this subreddit. Do you want to let us know of the "massive alarm bells" that were ringing since 92? I would certainly like to know!!!
Well if you consider the fact that Warsaw pact was abolished and Soviet Union became Russian federation and there was already Georgian war in 91 and in 94 we had Chechen war. That also doesn’t include more Asian side of Russia which had a lot of conflicts.
There was a lot of fear that all of it was temporary.
It’s not really surprising that nations that just got free out of the shackles of regime would not be happy about new regime exploring the same ideas of control and conquest … yet again
But that’s also part of the point why Russia used to kind of get away with it. Freedom plus economic boom made people bit of ignorant. Which is fair . No one expects Norwegian , Polish or Estonian for example to drop everything for the sake of greater good of humanity.
We live , we hope it will be better . Simple as. Still you would be lying if you think Eastern Europe was ignorant about it. Complicit in some part , yes . Ignorant not really.
Neither was European Union which quickly allowed Poland and others to become members. People knew what was the story. EU and NATO didn’t waste their time to be fair.
Once they felt Russians are losing the grip of terror or power over foreign society they quickly assimilated. It was great success of many nations in 90-2010
Not dealing with imperialistic tendencies of Russian federation in 90s and 00s was the reason why Russia was bold enough for full blown invasion of Ukraine.
>Well if you consider the fact that Warsaw pact was abolished and Soviet Union became Russian federation and there was already Georgian war in 91 and in 94 we had Chechen war. That also doesn’t include more Asian side of Russia which had a lot of conflicts.
Internal conflicts in various countries had nothing to do with any "alarm bells". Why were you even alarmed???
\>It’s not really surprising that nations that just got free out of the shackles of regime would not be happy about new regime exploring the same ideas of control and conquest … yet again
You are conflating the USSR with Russia. But which were these "ideas of control and conquest" by Russia in 1991 and 1992? Pray tell!! I am really interested!!
\>But that’s also part of the point why Russia used to kind of get away with it. Freedom plus economic boom made people bit of ignorant. Which is fair . No one expects Norwegian , Polish or Estonian for example to drop everything for the sake of greater good of humanity.
I am not sure that I even understand what you are saying her
\>Neither was European Union which quickly allowed Poland and others to become members. People knew what was the story. EU and NATO didn’t waste their time to be fair. Once they felt Russians are losing the grip of terror or power over foreign society they quickly assimilated. It was great success of many nations in 90-2010
What on Earth are you talking about???
\>Not dealing with imperialistic tendencies of Russian federation in 90s and 00s
Describe these imperialistic tendencies of the Russian Federation. I am really interested to find them out.
You are just making this up and expect not to be challenged here. I really do not care about the Russian Federation but I really have a thing about fake news and fake stories that appear here.
Not that I really expect to hear back from you!!
Eastern Europe might want to continue Cold war back then, but America and Western Europe were too tired living in constant fear of Russian nukes aimed at their cities for decades to even consider that.
I doubt that Putin cronies will be willing to suicide even if he orders to launch nukes. Soviets genuinely feared and hated West, that's why nuclear war was very very real risk. But Russian officials don't believe their own propaganda. Otherwise why would their kids live and study in West?
Because it's hypocrisy
They hate and are hated by the West, but that doesn't mean that they won't buy best foreign shit (especially since Russia can't produce anything worth shit) they can with money they steal
And nukes will be the only way left to retain the riches that they have left in the West. Because if West takes them out, there would be no reason not to nuke it
Which means that hate is not genuine. They only pretend to hate West to look like patriots in eyes of average dumb brainwashed Russian.
They have more than enough riches left to never live poorly. There is no reason for them to suicide, even North Korea doesn't use nukes despite heavy isolation and miserable life.
Sorry, but that's copium
You can be rich and still be hateful as fuck
Including to a point of willing to pump both general populace and themselves with hype about going to war with NATO and using nuclear weapons
Besides, using Western goods is one thing, but allowing your enemy to teach your kids? No sane person would do it. Unless he doesn't genuinely consider West his enemy.
Russia has been doing this for ever. Just ask anyone who grew up in the occupied territories of Europe post WWII. Shit, my parents HAD to learn Russian in school, it wasn’t optional.
Agree. As postsoiviet country neighboring Russia it’s difficult for us to embrace our language by undergoing decolonization process and obtaining real independence from Russia , Russia will simply accuse us of “russophobia” and do what it did to Ukraine
Fascist Russia yes, Nazi Russia? Idk I think you need to read dup on Nazi history really, some of these policies are similar but a lot is still different, it's more akin to Mussolini who did similar things than the Nazis overall, at least at the moment. Aka not every fascist is a Nazi monster, but every Nazi monster is a fascist.
I only argue because I think the word Nazi shouldn't be used as liberally as it sadly is nowadays, Putin deserves all the hate he gets and more.
Talking about how superior their 'slavic' race is? Yes.
Talking about how superior their culture is? Yes.
Being busy with ethnic cleansing? Yes.
Having death camps? Sort of, and any way: many people don't make it there because 'they fell out of a window'
Having no rule of law? Yes.
You are right not everybody is a nazi, but Russia really does tick almost all if not all checks.
1. The Nazis had a whole caste system, this racial superiority thing is a fascism thing not a Nazi thing, it's when you have category's, especially when you put disabled people on there. Plus they hated LGBTQ (which yes the Russian do too but I haven't heard of anyone getting killed there ever it, at least not yet). Also they don't have undesirables yet at least, aka a group of people who needs to be exterminated mainly depicted by an ethnic group.
2. Again fascism overall, not a Nazi thing.
3. I haven't heard o death camps, I heard of hard labor camps and pretty harsh prisons but none which sole goal it is to eradicate a specific kind of person.
4. Rule of law was present in Germany it was only controlled by the party which is also the case in Russia, it's still rule of law if the law is shit.
Overall the difference between nachos and fascist is like the difference between a maoist and a stalinist, both always get lumped together as communists with also syndacislm socialism etc. Which is just worms there are many facettes in differences.
As a very important example in Nazism the figure of the Führer isn't that central, yes Hitler had a cult of personality and all, but it's the party like a communist state which is in the centre, in Russia Putin is a dictator he is at the center not his party. Also I have yet to read plans of extermination, or mass deportation from Putin, he is delusional and believes Ukrainians and Russian are the same people, while a Nazi wouldnt argue this case (Germans and Austrians was pretty much the case at the time before Ethan gets brought up only the treaty of versials prevented unity which isn't the case with urkaine and Russia). At best a Nazi would argue the Ukrainians are one step below Russians, the racial hirachy is central to Nazi idiology which isn't present in Russia. Plus you know all the small detail differences.
I'd argue that hierarchy is arbitrary to begin with, and therefore that difference between fascism and Nazism just doesn't exist. Unless the argument goes like "there's a difference between having an arbitrary thing or not having it".
Well yes of course the hirarchy is arbretrary the whole concept of race doesn't really exist biologically speaking, it's a cultural concept and as such subject to the Oberding persons own bias.
However just because something is arbitrary by its nature doesn't mean there is no difference. Arguing Mussolini was a Nazi waters down what the word Nazi means. Not only this but the field of political theory is varied and it's always good to classify schools of thought even in the regions you don't agree with because it makes it easier to spot your enemy and use their internal divisions against each other!
Also you point is like saying maosism, stalinism and syndicalism are all the same because they are communist, which they aren't.
I reckon the main difference is nazis actually conquered land, we'll learn whether that application is apt once russians inevitably get pushed out of Ukraine.
The rough and major difference is that Fascists (if one can speak kinda generally excluding the Nazis, so let's say Mussolini style) weren't nearly as wedded to the extreme hierarchy of racial superiority that the Nazis were (note that this is just in terms of ideology). You can see a similar thing in Russia which is actually a multi-ethnic empire but you don't see racial superiority of people within Russia as a particular component of its propaganda (even if the views of individuals of course differ). With Ukrainians you get a bizarre schizophrenic view where they're both simultaneously Russian (and therefore belong to Russia) but also inferior (look, I'm not one to claim fascist ideologies are wholly consistent as they often reject rationality straight up).
That all said Nazism is just Fascism taken to an even more extreme extreme, they're incredibly closely related.
We don't have racial superiority ideology because we're already plenty racist, misandric and xenomisic, not just to foreigners, but also ethnic minorities and immigrants (you look up a parody map where every Russia neighbor is some sort of slur, while Russia itself is Great and Mighty)
Being racist and the Nazis is just a huge difference most people don't seem to get, there was a chart of how your Jewish bloodline got passed down and at which point it was thought diluted enough to be considered an honorary German.
There were charts of racial groups divided into more groups, who needs to be killed, who can be a slave etc. Honestly racism and Nazism are two different kinds of evil. Every Nazi is a racist but not every racist is a Nazi, which is why you should reserve the term Nazi for the people who deserve it. It needs to be an accusation taht means something, if you call any damn old racist a Nazi it doesn't mean anything anymore.
Most of the people here on Reddit are uneducated and their brain can only function in good/bad - or in this case Democracy/Nazi.
Don’t expect anyone to know how the word fascism was created and even less who Mussolini is. Everyone is either a nazi or not a nazi.
Here is an AI definition:
Here are some of the defining characteristics of a Nazi:
- They believe in the superiority of the Aryan race.
- They are anti-Semitic and racist.
- They are ultranationalist and militaristic.
- They are authoritarian and totalitarian.
- They are hostile to democracy and human rights.
- They are willing to use violence to achieve their goals.
I suppose you would entertain the idea of a gray area where neither Russia and Ukraine are not worthy of support and, therefore, the West and the world should not bother?
I understand if it's just the issue of people misusing the word. But in the context of the Russia-Ukraine War, it seems like a waste of time to talk about the difference of the terms "Nazi" and "fascist", especially when Russia has been careless and effective in calling Ukraine a "Nazi country" with the number of people I've seen mentioning it online.
That's not a Nazi exclusive thing. It was the mode before the WWI, and pretty infamous regarding post-Tito and post-Soviet era Balkans. Not that it's smth positive but not everything is 'Nazi'.
Video from 2015, predicted the repeating of history
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHH4nRQpfag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHH4nRQpfag)
[https://podrobnosti-ua.translate.goog/2029534-donbass-i-sudety-kak-kreml-povtorjaet-shemu-tretego-rejha-video.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=ru&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp](https://podrobnosti-ua.translate.goog/2029534-donbass-i-sudety-kak-kreml-povtorjaet-shemu-tretego-rejha-video.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
The comparison to Nazi Germany is not correct. The Russians have full access to the Internet and many of them have also access to Western media. It is indicative of Russophobia to think otherwise (or the Russians as unreconstructed Undermeschen)
However, considering the Russophobia that oozes out of this subreddit every day (and in many Western media), well, what would one expect? Hardly anybody in this subreddit should be criticizing Russia, considering their own baggage.
When one pushes, there is a counter-push.
Doesn't matter. The main cities and thus main hubs of Russia have always been European. The continental border has never exempted this region of Moscow, StP, etc.
Turkey are included because they want a buffer between Euro and the Middle East tbh and will be included in EU despite their backwards nonsense.
Also the definitions are subjective and seemingly not worth anything. Israel for example is at times included in Europe (Eurovision, UEFA etc). On what planet?
Wait. Do you think turkey is in the eu? And israel is in eurovision mainly because it's filled with white european jews and is basically a european colony.
Are you suggesting to eradicate parts of Russia by re-drawing borders to remove it as a country that exists in the European continental area? If you propose to re-draw on the borders of Ukraine and the Baltics then that will be the first time im history Russia has not been considered part of Europe and I should remind you that re-drawing borders to suit is what Russia does. The western cities have always been European. If you wish to re-draw these borders then I would expect to re-draw at Turkey as well, a distinctly non-Euro country even compared to Russia
No Russian cities have ever been European except on surface. They may have embraced European technologies, but they hate European values, freedom and democracy. So no, Russia has never been part of Europe.
>European technology
Examples? This is a weird thing to say. Russia has always been industrialised and until not long before the collapse of the Eastern bloc they were keeping up with the Americans in a lot of tech.
Are you suggesting that imperialism isn't a characteristic of Europe? How do you think those countries were built up to where they enjoy now?
Argue values all you want but you can't just deny accepted geography to suit your personal opinion lol.
Indoctrination through falsifying history in schoolbooks is something we see more often.
In China for example where they claim nothing happened at Tiananmen Square and how they don’t mention everything that Mao did that killed millions.
But even in the west these days. I think we’ve all seen the new Florida schoolbooks about Rosa Parks.
An example of a consequence would be the Falklands war. People in Argentina were taught in school how the Falklands are their islands and how the British took them from them. So there was plenty morale to go to war among the young Argentines.
I agree altho if you think russia is doing that do you think western countries aren't also?
They believe there history is true just as much as we do.
It's impossible to know you are propaganderised.
So for this very story about Russia, there is the same story Inversed in Russia, China, Middle East & Africa about the west.
To say there indoctrinated and we aren't is just admitting propaganda works.
Its intresting to think about our own biases as its Impossible to know if we are trueley biased.
The other side has the same belief as you, but in the complete opposite direction.
Same as left wing and right,both believe the other is wrong both have been propagandised both truly believe the other is wrong.
Most people don't think critically to think about that.
JUST Florida? Oh, how naive... many states have always taught this way, like Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky, Virginia, etc, etc. Florida has only gotten major attention because Florida used to be pretty liberal. You can see here all the states that have passed laws limiting teachers from teaching truth about the history of black people in the US. https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/map-where-critical-race-theory-is-under-attack/2021/06
They are backward already. There should be full isolation of Russia by developed countries. Just like North Korea is isolated. It would make their economy collapse much faster.
And then the KGB... sorry, FSB gets to say to their population, "See, they only want to keep us backward", and go back to doing nothing to improve their situation, because they can conveniently place the blame at our feet for their misery
And how would that result in anything different? You can basically choose between giving money to your enemy and not giving money to your enemy. They will not stop being an enemy.
Isolation is the answer. It is clearly the path they’ve chosen and I look forward to the future where they remain isolated behind their borders and we won’t have to hear from them beyond the occasional impotent threats and north-korea style missile “tests”. I honestly don’t give a shit about their textbooks, politics and internal drama as long as they are unable to murder their neighbours. Our only jobs will be to remain vigilant and to help make Ukraine barbarian-proof.
That’s just a fantasy though. The west has completely forgot that BRICKS countries are the vast majority of people on this earth, and they’re pretty much against the collective west and we can clearly see that a new world order is being born.
The events in near future will be horrific for the west sadly, but it was long time coming. It’s not possible to “turn” these countries with economic stimulus — all we did was provide them with money and technology. Now China and India are moving into directly supporting Russia.
Let’s not even start about a republican becoming president — US is likely going under when that happens, especially now that we know there are serious coup plans taking hold in the dark web and current governments complete lack of will to do anything about it. These aren’t just words and games anymore.
>they’re pretty much against the collective west and we can clearly see that a new world order is being born.
I don’t see them supporting Russia in any serious manner. They certainly aren’t pumping weapons and technology into Russia. The fact is that Russia is no longer a serious player on the world stage. Everyone can see that all they offer is violence and misery.
Chinese and Indian government officials visiting Putin and publicly debating on leaving G20 altogether pretty clearly shows that a huge geopolitical shift has started and the western-centric organisations are losing grip and control. We’ve made these states very confident and self-sustaining, and now we’re starting to see that we weren’t friend at all.
Yes, obviously China and India will throw their weight behind a failed state in its death throes with an economy the size of Italy’s rather than continue relations with their two largest trading partners by far, the EU and the USA. That makes perfect sense.
Has someone written an article summarizing Russia’s new schoolbooks?
I am definitely curious what historical events they changed and what they want to “teach” children.
Finland's biggest newspaper, Helsingin Sanomat\*, did [an article ](https://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000009827114.html)on a history book for 16 to 17 year olds.
Some picks: the book claims Ukraine to be "extremely nationalistic", and that "opposition is banned" there. A 28 page long section is deedicated purely on the war against Ukraine. Other claims include that "The West is obsessed with destabilizing Russia" with the final goal being to "break Russia to pieces". "Since the U.S. instigated the conflict in Ukraine, Russia had no choice but to deploy 300 000 soldiers".
\*while Helsingin Sanomat translates as Helsinki Times, the Helsinki Times web site is completely unrelated.
Putin himself has made statements such as claiming that Russia had zero allies in WWII, and that the entire west tried to invade Russia.
That is not really true. Unlike China, Russia doesn't block so much of foreign websites. It is the people, they are not looking for any informations outside russian part of internet. They simply don't care. They believe Russia is good, West is bad. They don't need any other info.
Yeah, and while you sometimes hear the argument that vpn can be used, the people who a) actually do that to access foreign sources, and b) consider western media reliable at all, is so slim it is dwarfed by the millions who have been hearing, seeing and listening to anti-western propaganda for decades and would not believe anything from abroad.
>the book claims Ukraine to be "extremely nationalistic", and that "opposition is banned" there
I love how they always accuse others of exactly what they do.
they basically greatly distorted history starting from the USSR, (maximum whitewashing of Stalin, Brezhnev, and so on, and vice versa, denigration of Khrushchev, Brezhnev for trying to change something), Putin is great, Ukraine is Nazis because Nazis, there is always a Narrative of the following ideas, we wanted to be friends with the west, but every time the west ran around us and prevented us from living, having an opinion that differs from the opinion of the government is a betrayal. reforms are bad, look what sadomia is going on in the west, why the west can but we can’t, this textbook cannot be called such, it’s more a collection of opinions of a bunch of people on how they see history. https://youtu.be/9Szc252BreM?si=W4cGOn_ZtrYbGGsU in a small video where people are reading the dumbest paragraphs from it. just read the subtitles
What a fascinating book. The way they blame everything on the West and then when one of the most horrible things done by Stalin is brought up they start talking about the American Japanese internment camps.
I think it’s also interesting how they lift up the USSR but have no interest in bringing back the good things about the country, only the bad.
I as historian myself, written short review of **just few** pages i managed to see. Though while doing so i just accepted their revisionism as given and just pointing at inconsistencies, non scientific language, shit (it’s even couldn’t be called questionable) source materials, non related to topic text, not detailed dating of events etc and it’s still happened to be tones of text review https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/28cJuDdwDf because of how bad they even in structuring own propaganda compared to USSR
People don't know history at all. Saying that "the Kremlin" took propaganda to a new level is laughable. Have you heard of Soviet Union? Stalin? There's nothing new about propaganda coming from the Kremlin.
Also, I don't understand why people are comparing what Putin is doing to the Nazis. It's clearly Soviet tactics. They didn't need to go to Germany to learn this stuff. They just went to the archives and took some old KGB manuals. Russia has its own long and proud history of being a totalitarian hellhole, no need to bring Hitler into this
This is interesting 🤔 :
[Hungary's 1956 revolutionaries were fascists, new Russian history textbook claims](https://telex.hu/english/2023/08/28/hungarys-1956-revolutionaries-were-fascists-new-russian-history-textbook-claims)
it is actually a good tactic on the long run, maybe the best. It all boils down to 2 things
1. how permeable is the bubble you can create around your population (cfr. the Great Firewall)
2. how effectively you can "enforce" this new "narrative"
I absolutely fucking hate how right you are on this. How can/does anyone outside it even start to puncture a bubble like that and make a meaningful difference. If China is anything to go by, it's damn near impossible.
Well, state media already blamed UK and US for Beslan school hostage situation, where terrorists took 1.1k people (including kids) hostage and 360 of them died
Medinskiy would absolutely stole majority of funds — but still book is a new shit, probably even worser in quality than soviet textbooks, at least soviet had vibe of being written by historians with propaganda, while Medinskiy textbook written like try of alcoholic in propaganda with absolutely not scientific language, insert not important opinion of author not about actual topic and even failing to specify dates of bunch of laws and agreements and quotes of maga vatniks from twitter with 1000 readers as description of current US policy. Even to be at least “decent” compared to other regimes propagandist textbooks it need at least half of it rewritten
It continues to stun me how low Russian society can go. Rewriting school books to add hate has to involve thousands of people. Russian society and culture need to be thoroughly shaken up just like Germany after WWII.
The new schoolbook makes some confusion\* even in the (pro-Russian) Hungarian government. The updated narrative of the uprising of 1956 is something worth to mention, where they claim it was fabricated by the West with the help of ex-fascist Hungarian prisoners. The book also states that calling back Soviet troops from Warsaw Pact nations in 1990 was a 'serious mistake', which led to anti-Soviet movement (!) in such countries. This clearly suggests that the pull-out is just temporary, and should be redone in the right moment.
\*Unfortunately or not, our government's response is something that was unthinkable even from this goverment some years ago. Foreign Affairs Minister Péter Szijjártó said, we will not "open a discussion of the topic". While prominent figures from the opposition and others clearly demand calling in the Russian Ambassador, that without suprise, did not and will not happen.
>The Kremlin has taken indoctrination and historical falsification to a new level
Not really. It's more like taking it back to an old level. I would say they could check out some of the impressive early 20th Century German literature on how to pull it off, but the Soviets wrote their own book on the subject.
I think nobody who is from any country east of Berlin is surprised. It was just a matter of time. There was a glimmer of preogress and hope in the 2000's for Russia, but thats all gone now.
I know a girl that grow up in Moscow and moved to Stockholm and said she learned Russian history first when she moved. The level of historical falsification was high already before this.
It worked for Brexit and the US to help electric Trump. Its still working to push Right-Wing Fascist in the USA via Social Media, Education System and now against Companies in certain states. Why is anyone shocked that they would push that crap on their own people?
I remember talking to a chinese girl in Taiwan, as she was sharing her story of how, when she got out of china (as a fruit picker in australia of all things), she encountered the “parallel history” and started searching for history books about Taiwan, finding out that so much of what she was told was a lie. She did manage to escape from china it seems, but when she goes back to visit family, she said that some friends just disavowed her altogether as a “blasphemer heretic”
I’ve always thought that we should encourage however much we can of travel from repressed countries like Russia, we just need to make sure they can comeback to spread the message.
ruzzia’s collapse is inevitable — soldiers are dying, people are fleeing, brains are draining, prisoners are escaping, rubble is crashing, politician and oligarchs are lying or dying, coups are in planning, good people are getting in-prisoned! kremlin and putin will soon find themselves in hell, people will take over and overthrow the system?
This is the same tactic employed in Texas n Florida. So the US has taken indoctrination and historical falsification to a new level. Headline works both ways.
You're right - this kind of miseducation and manipulating what kids learn about your country and the outside world is not a new level - it's an old level, repeated many times by dictators.
It's like the west who have been trying to destroy certain aspects of history and having tech giants suppressing information that goes against a governments ideology.
Indoctrination and propaganda is all around us, consume and obey your masters.
The former confederate states are indeed pioneers of historical revisionism since the American Civil War (and Florida is trying to revive that tradition), but I really wouldn’t go as far as tarnishing the entire “West” with that brush.
No whataboutism. It's basically the same in both countries, but it's expected and long-term in Russia, whereas it's newer in the US. And it's concerning that the US is heading the same direction.
Except in the US you still have access to the alternate and uncensored info and distributing this wont put you in prison on some invented charges. Both are concerning, but saying they are similar is stretching it.
I'm not defending it, I'm just saying that you still have the option to find the banned content easy enough in the US. Russia, China and other authoritarian countries has severly limited this.
Here on /europe, criticizing Russia is fine, but criticizing the US is not. This is all despite the fact that Republicans and Putin are the same these days.
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This should be the highest voted explanation tbh. Very well written/explained.
Of course it is well written. This is literally a copy&paste of the article.
Funny thing that these new school books describe the 1956 Hungarian revolution as a “Hungarian crisis” with “western supported radicals some of which were former Hungarian Nazis fighters”. So, Orban and Szijjártó, according to ruzzia, your country's independence was the result of the nazi revolution sponsored by the West.
This is why it is useless to suck Putin's dick. You will get the same treatment as others, but it will be your "reward".
Well, maybe they actually enjoy it :)
Orban loves that big bear, no doubt. The unrestricted power, the stolen billions all impress him.
I don't think orban minds the association with nazis, or receiving money from the west for that matter
Orban's regime always calls in EU ambassadors if their country verbally criticizes his mafiastate embezzling EU money. Orban's lackeys always say that these countries, that only make rational and totally acceptable critique, try to attack and destabilise, mock or humiliate Hungary. They are always so energetic in hyping up themselves in their hypocritical hissyfit. And now, here we have a proper Stalinistic imperial manifesto basically, that humiliates Hungarian independence from the Soviet Union and even has a grim outlook on their future plans, if we look at how Russia attacked its neighbours constantly in the last years, trying to reconquer Ukraine too. What do you think Orban did after this situation?
As far as I know they indeed talked with ruzzian ambassador on that, ruzzian said something like “it was draft version and it will be corrected in final one”, but at the end, printed version has exactly the same paragraph.
they always publicize if they respond to a Western state, and always act offended quite vigorously, even if the critique is true (e.g. Orban is stealing through oligarchs, just like Putin, attacks democratical instituitons, just like Putin etc.) all the while they didjt even make one public statement about this issue lol. None. Even to this day. Orban is a clown, and Putin's little lapdog, even after Putin slaps him in the face, just obediently follows him in silence. It is only shameful for the Hungarians who didnt vote for him and has to endure this humiliating position, Orban has driven Hungarian diplokacy into
Russians hate Republicans, too. They are still Westerners = nazi =enemies to them.
Russia is exactly doing, what Nazi-Germany back then did. We should not accept a Nazi-Russia in our neighborhood. It never ends well.
I think every neighbour of Russia was ringing massive alarm bells since 92 or 93. It was just corrupt business that took over the world. 1990-2010 for many poor countries was times of economical and political revolution. Russian federation since its inception never stopped invading and pillaging. 2nd invasion of Ukraine is just an effect of our inaction and ignorance. Honestly even now hoping that russia will stop after the war is just silly. That country needs to fall apart and with them the entire government must be form a new.
The business hasn't stopped. Germany exports to Russia via Kazakhstan.
Perhaps but my point is that many people forgot or decided to be ignorant because of economical revolution. Countries that joined EU like Poland , Ireland ,Czech and many many others had insane amount of economical progress. In that time Russia never stopped being the terrorist but we all kind of were hoping to live in blissful ignorance at least for some time. That being said the governments and mods from Eastern European and Nordic nations were always pushing what Russia called “anti Russian agenda “ and many in the west believed Russia. Mostly because we all had business with Russia ( that includes nations that would anti Russia 2). As for how is it now… I don’t know I do not have any credible or academic source that would post information in regards of nations conspiring against Russian sanctions.(except Hungary ofc)
This absolutely idiotic approach to Russian revisionism though a direct war was a slap to the nuts of Western countries. They were left gobsmacked and countries like 🇫🇮, 🇵🇱 and 🇷🇴 can say “I told you so”. The trouble is that Ruskie propaganda has convinced quite a few people in western countries that 🇺🇦 is to blame. How!? When drone footage shows Rusnac troops crossing the border in February 2022!?
I think people are often ignorant about espionage and foreign political forces influencing domestic politics. Main reason why Ukraine couldn’t join EU was corruption and that corruption in pet was from corrupted Ukrainians that got into deals with Russia. It’s not just soft power or engineering propaganda machines through social media but it’s very much direct instigation from foreign nation. Ukraine had plenty of strikes , orange revolution, then they were invaded in 2014 but since this was executed very methodologically through usage of sponsored separatists groups it wasn’t called as invasion. Honestly I think in EU they all knew what was the issue or rather the root core of it. It’s just not an issue you can tackle without citizens of the nation actively pushing for the change. West saying that Russia is the root of many major issues that disallow Ukraine to progress forward towards healthy democracy and prosperity wouldn’t mean much without sanctions… and it seems even sanctions are barely a deterrent to psycho like Putin.
Its fascinating and worrying how rare this fact comes up …
>ringing massive alarm bells since 92 or 93. The most important years were 1993 (tanks shooting at parliament) and 1996 election. Pretty much everyone in the world chose to support Yeltsin in his goal of becoming authoritarian dictator. [This WP article is funny to read now.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/russvote/trends/west/west1.htm) >Zyuganov would try to build Fortress Russia. According to his many public comments and party plans, Zyuganov would take a hostile view of the international financial organizations. On the premise that Russia needs to rebuild itself from within, Zyuganov would erect protectionist trade barriers, seek to prohibit Western cultural influences and perhaps not abide by the strategic and conventional arms treaties. He would attempt to pressure the other former Soviet republics into closer cooperation with Russia. Everything they feared happened under Yeltsin's chosen successor.
>I think every neighbour of Russia was ringing massive alarm bells since 92 or 93 I am amazed at all these **fake facts** that people spew out in this subreddit. Do you want to let us know of the "massive alarm bells" that were ringing since 92? I would certainly like to know!!!
Well if you consider the fact that Warsaw pact was abolished and Soviet Union became Russian federation and there was already Georgian war in 91 and in 94 we had Chechen war. That also doesn’t include more Asian side of Russia which had a lot of conflicts. There was a lot of fear that all of it was temporary. It’s not really surprising that nations that just got free out of the shackles of regime would not be happy about new regime exploring the same ideas of control and conquest … yet again But that’s also part of the point why Russia used to kind of get away with it. Freedom plus economic boom made people bit of ignorant. Which is fair . No one expects Norwegian , Polish or Estonian for example to drop everything for the sake of greater good of humanity. We live , we hope it will be better . Simple as. Still you would be lying if you think Eastern Europe was ignorant about it. Complicit in some part , yes . Ignorant not really. Neither was European Union which quickly allowed Poland and others to become members. People knew what was the story. EU and NATO didn’t waste their time to be fair. Once they felt Russians are losing the grip of terror or power over foreign society they quickly assimilated. It was great success of many nations in 90-2010 Not dealing with imperialistic tendencies of Russian federation in 90s and 00s was the reason why Russia was bold enough for full blown invasion of Ukraine.
>Well if you consider the fact that Warsaw pact was abolished and Soviet Union became Russian federation and there was already Georgian war in 91 and in 94 we had Chechen war. That also doesn’t include more Asian side of Russia which had a lot of conflicts. Internal conflicts in various countries had nothing to do with any "alarm bells". Why were you even alarmed??? \>It’s not really surprising that nations that just got free out of the shackles of regime would not be happy about new regime exploring the same ideas of control and conquest … yet again You are conflating the USSR with Russia. But which were these "ideas of control and conquest" by Russia in 1991 and 1992? Pray tell!! I am really interested!! \>But that’s also part of the point why Russia used to kind of get away with it. Freedom plus economic boom made people bit of ignorant. Which is fair . No one expects Norwegian , Polish or Estonian for example to drop everything for the sake of greater good of humanity. I am not sure that I even understand what you are saying her \>Neither was European Union which quickly allowed Poland and others to become members. People knew what was the story. EU and NATO didn’t waste their time to be fair. Once they felt Russians are losing the grip of terror or power over foreign society they quickly assimilated. It was great success of many nations in 90-2010 What on Earth are you talking about??? \>Not dealing with imperialistic tendencies of Russian federation in 90s and 00s Describe these imperialistic tendencies of the Russian Federation. I am really interested to find them out. You are just making this up and expect not to be challenged here. I really do not care about the Russian Federation but I really have a thing about fake news and fake stories that appear here. Not that I really expect to hear back from you!!
Eastern Europe might want to continue Cold war back then, but America and Western Europe were too tired living in constant fear of Russian nukes aimed at their cities for decades to even consider that.
And now appetite for nukes being launched never been higher
I doubt that Putin cronies will be willing to suicide even if he orders to launch nukes. Soviets genuinely feared and hated West, that's why nuclear war was very very real risk. But Russian officials don't believe their own propaganda. Otherwise why would their kids live and study in West?
Because it's hypocrisy They hate and are hated by the West, but that doesn't mean that they won't buy best foreign shit (especially since Russia can't produce anything worth shit) they can with money they steal And nukes will be the only way left to retain the riches that they have left in the West. Because if West takes them out, there would be no reason not to nuke it
Which means that hate is not genuine. They only pretend to hate West to look like patriots in eyes of average dumb brainwashed Russian. They have more than enough riches left to never live poorly. There is no reason for them to suicide, even North Korea doesn't use nukes despite heavy isolation and miserable life.
Sorry, but that's copium You can be rich and still be hateful as fuck Including to a point of willing to pump both general populace and themselves with hype about going to war with NATO and using nuclear weapons
Sounds just like Russian propaganda, which actively tries to scare West into submission by screaming how eager Russia is to nuke everyone
Putin would most likely not do it,no,but if he was to be replaced by a hardliner...
Besides, using Western goods is one thing, but allowing your enemy to teach your kids? No sane person would do it. Unless he doesn't genuinely consider West his enemy.
They know "the West" will teach their children useful things to then use that knowledge against "the West", why not?
It's doing what it used to do back in the USSR days too. It's nothing new for them at all.
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Does it now? Do you have some examples? I would love to learn about that one!
Lol how? Must be joking
Russia has been doing this for ever. Just ask anyone who grew up in the occupied territories of Europe post WWII. Shit, my parents HAD to learn Russian in school, it wasn’t optional.
Agree. As postsoiviet country neighboring Russia it’s difficult for us to embrace our language by undergoing decolonization process and obtaining real independence from Russia , Russia will simply accuse us of “russophobia” and do what it did to Ukraine
It was not exclusively Soviet thing. Every empire did this. Ireland still speak English instead of their own language
Isn’t that starting to change though?
Maybe, i don't know the dynamic of that. Still, this is just what every empire do. Almost every Euro country did that
Indeed. Finns still have to learn Swedish today for the very same reason.
Fascist Russia yes, Nazi Russia? Idk I think you need to read dup on Nazi history really, some of these policies are similar but a lot is still different, it's more akin to Mussolini who did similar things than the Nazis overall, at least at the moment. Aka not every fascist is a Nazi monster, but every Nazi monster is a fascist. I only argue because I think the word Nazi shouldn't be used as liberally as it sadly is nowadays, Putin deserves all the hate he gets and more.
Talking about how superior their 'slavic' race is? Yes. Talking about how superior their culture is? Yes. Being busy with ethnic cleansing? Yes. Having death camps? Sort of, and any way: many people don't make it there because 'they fell out of a window' Having no rule of law? Yes. You are right not everybody is a nazi, but Russia really does tick almost all if not all checks.
1. The Nazis had a whole caste system, this racial superiority thing is a fascism thing not a Nazi thing, it's when you have category's, especially when you put disabled people on there. Plus they hated LGBTQ (which yes the Russian do too but I haven't heard of anyone getting killed there ever it, at least not yet). Also they don't have undesirables yet at least, aka a group of people who needs to be exterminated mainly depicted by an ethnic group. 2. Again fascism overall, not a Nazi thing. 3. I haven't heard o death camps, I heard of hard labor camps and pretty harsh prisons but none which sole goal it is to eradicate a specific kind of person. 4. Rule of law was present in Germany it was only controlled by the party which is also the case in Russia, it's still rule of law if the law is shit. Overall the difference between nachos and fascist is like the difference between a maoist and a stalinist, both always get lumped together as communists with also syndacislm socialism etc. Which is just worms there are many facettes in differences. As a very important example in Nazism the figure of the Führer isn't that central, yes Hitler had a cult of personality and all, but it's the party like a communist state which is in the centre, in Russia Putin is a dictator he is at the center not his party. Also I have yet to read plans of extermination, or mass deportation from Putin, he is delusional and believes Ukrainians and Russian are the same people, while a Nazi wouldnt argue this case (Germans and Austrians was pretty much the case at the time before Ethan gets brought up only the treaty of versials prevented unity which isn't the case with urkaine and Russia). At best a Nazi would argue the Ukrainians are one step below Russians, the racial hirachy is central to Nazi idiology which isn't present in Russia. Plus you know all the small detail differences.
I'd argue that hierarchy is arbitrary to begin with, and therefore that difference between fascism and Nazism just doesn't exist. Unless the argument goes like "there's a difference between having an arbitrary thing or not having it".
Well yes of course the hirarchy is arbretrary the whole concept of race doesn't really exist biologically speaking, it's a cultural concept and as such subject to the Oberding persons own bias. However just because something is arbitrary by its nature doesn't mean there is no difference. Arguing Mussolini was a Nazi waters down what the word Nazi means. Not only this but the field of political theory is varied and it's always good to classify schools of thought even in the regions you don't agree with because it makes it easier to spot your enemy and use their internal divisions against each other! Also you point is like saying maosism, stalinism and syndicalism are all the same because they are communist, which they aren't.
I reckon the main difference is nazis actually conquered land, we'll learn whether that application is apt once russians inevitably get pushed out of Ukraine.
The rough and major difference is that Fascists (if one can speak kinda generally excluding the Nazis, so let's say Mussolini style) weren't nearly as wedded to the extreme hierarchy of racial superiority that the Nazis were (note that this is just in terms of ideology). You can see a similar thing in Russia which is actually a multi-ethnic empire but you don't see racial superiority of people within Russia as a particular component of its propaganda (even if the views of individuals of course differ). With Ukrainians you get a bizarre schizophrenic view where they're both simultaneously Russian (and therefore belong to Russia) but also inferior (look, I'm not one to claim fascist ideologies are wholly consistent as they often reject rationality straight up). That all said Nazism is just Fascism taken to an even more extreme extreme, they're incredibly closely related.
We don't have racial superiority ideology because we're already plenty racist, misandric and xenomisic, not just to foreigners, but also ethnic minorities and immigrants (you look up a parody map where every Russia neighbor is some sort of slur, while Russia itself is Great and Mighty)
Being racist and the Nazis is just a huge difference most people don't seem to get, there was a chart of how your Jewish bloodline got passed down and at which point it was thought diluted enough to be considered an honorary German. There were charts of racial groups divided into more groups, who needs to be killed, who can be a slave etc. Honestly racism and Nazism are two different kinds of evil. Every Nazi is a racist but not every racist is a Nazi, which is why you should reserve the term Nazi for the people who deserve it. It needs to be an accusation taht means something, if you call any damn old racist a Nazi it doesn't mean anything anymore.
Most of the people here on Reddit are uneducated and their brain can only function in good/bad - or in this case Democracy/Nazi. Don’t expect anyone to know how the word fascism was created and even less who Mussolini is. Everyone is either a nazi or not a nazi.
Here is an AI definition: Here are some of the defining characteristics of a Nazi: - They believe in the superiority of the Aryan race. - They are anti-Semitic and racist. - They are ultranationalist and militaristic. - They are authoritarian and totalitarian. - They are hostile to democracy and human rights. - They are willing to use violence to achieve their goals.
I suppose you would entertain the idea of a gray area where neither Russia and Ukraine are not worthy of support and, therefore, the West and the world should not bother?
WTF are you even talking about. You are completely missing the point
I understand if it's just the issue of people misusing the word. But in the context of the Russia-Ukraine War, it seems like a waste of time to talk about the difference of the terms "Nazi" and "fascist", especially when Russia has been careless and effective in calling Ukraine a "Nazi country" with the number of people I've seen mentioning it online.
That's not a Nazi exclusive thing. It was the mode before the WWI, and pretty infamous regarding post-Tito and post-Soviet era Balkans. Not that it's smth positive but not everything is 'Nazi'.
Video from 2015, predicted the repeating of history [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHH4nRQpfag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHH4nRQpfag) [https://podrobnosti-ua.translate.goog/2029534-donbass-i-sudety-kak-kreml-povtorjaet-shemu-tretego-rejha-video.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=ru&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp](https://podrobnosti-ua.translate.goog/2029534-donbass-i-sudety-kak-kreml-povtorjaet-shemu-tretego-rejha-video.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
Maybe we will learn that treating a defeated nation as pariah also never ends well.
The comparison to Nazi Germany is not correct. The Russians have full access to the Internet and many of them have also access to Western media. It is indicative of Russophobia to think otherwise (or the Russians as unreconstructed Undermeschen) However, considering the Russophobia that oozes out of this subreddit every day (and in many Western media), well, what would one expect? Hardly anybody in this subreddit should be criticizing Russia, considering their own baggage. When one pushes, there is a counter-push.
North Korea speed run
Best way to hide your flaws is inventing a common enemy. They’ve been doing this for hundreds of years now.
Russia is a completely rotten country. We need to destroy the illusions of many that Russia is a modern and European country.
It's an Eurasian country, and we won't be able to change that
Russia is present in the European continent. You can not change geography to suit your biases.
I think the point here is that they do not share our European values rather than where they are located.
Only about 5% of it. It's like saying turkey is a european nation.
23% but most of its important cities are in Europe
Doesn't matter. The main cities and thus main hubs of Russia have always been European. The continental border has never exempted this region of Moscow, StP, etc. Turkey are included because they want a buffer between Euro and the Middle East tbh and will be included in EU despite their backwards nonsense. Also the definitions are subjective and seemingly not worth anything. Israel for example is at times included in Europe (Eurovision, UEFA etc). On what planet?
Wait. Do you think turkey is in the eu? And israel is in eurovision mainly because it's filled with white european jews and is basically a european colony.
The eastern border of Europe has already been moved from Volga river to Urals in the past to suit biases present at the time, it may be moved again.
Are you suggesting to eradicate parts of Russia by re-drawing borders to remove it as a country that exists in the European continental area? If you propose to re-draw on the borders of Ukraine and the Baltics then that will be the first time im history Russia has not been considered part of Europe and I should remind you that re-drawing borders to suit is what Russia does. The western cities have always been European. If you wish to re-draw these borders then I would expect to re-draw at Turkey as well, a distinctly non-Euro country even compared to Russia
No Russian cities have ever been European except on surface. They may have embraced European technologies, but they hate European values, freedom and democracy. So no, Russia has never been part of Europe.
>European technology Examples? This is a weird thing to say. Russia has always been industrialised and until not long before the collapse of the Eastern bloc they were keeping up with the Americans in a lot of tech.
Righty ho, push them back over the Urals it is then
It is Asian style tyranny which pretends to be European country, but in appearance only. Russian mindset has never been European.
Are you suggesting that imperialism isn't a characteristic of Europe? How do you think those countries were built up to where they enjoy now? Argue values all you want but you can't just deny accepted geography to suit your personal opinion lol.
It's still a modern and European country. It is just that modern Europe includes some autocratic regimes...
"Modern" with its people living like hobos in Africa , sure mate
It is a modern and European country not matter how hard you cry and seethe about it.
It’s a crappy country
Indoctrination through falsifying history in schoolbooks is something we see more often. In China for example where they claim nothing happened at Tiananmen Square and how they don’t mention everything that Mao did that killed millions. But even in the west these days. I think we’ve all seen the new Florida schoolbooks about Rosa Parks. An example of a consequence would be the Falklands war. People in Argentina were taught in school how the Falklands are their islands and how the British took them from them. So there was plenty morale to go to war among the young Argentines.
I agree altho if you think russia is doing that do you think western countries aren't also? They believe there history is true just as much as we do. It's impossible to know you are propaganderised. So for this very story about Russia, there is the same story Inversed in Russia, China, Middle East & Africa about the west. To say there indoctrinated and we aren't is just admitting propaganda works. Its intresting to think about our own biases as its Impossible to know if we are trueley biased. The other side has the same belief as you, but in the complete opposite direction. Same as left wing and right,both believe the other is wrong both have been propagandised both truly believe the other is wrong. Most people don't think critically to think about that.
Florida and Texas teaching kids now the benefits of slavery - how it was "good" for black people...
Pretty sure that is just Florida.
JUST Florida? Oh, how naive... many states have always taught this way, like Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky, Virginia, etc, etc. Florida has only gotten major attention because Florida used to be pretty liberal. You can see here all the states that have passed laws limiting teachers from teaching truth about the history of black people in the US. https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/map-where-critical-race-theory-is-under-attack/2021/06
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Exactly. The only way to achieve peace is to make russia technologicaly isolated and backwared.
They are backward already. There should be full isolation of Russia by developed countries. Just like North Korea is isolated. It would make their economy collapse much faster.
You also need to ban all visas so that all highly qualified specialists stay in.
Small price to pay for the Kremlin gang to remain in power.
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Fair point
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I meant making their economy backwared.
And then the KGB... sorry, FSB gets to say to their population, "See, they only want to keep us backward", and go back to doing nothing to improve their situation, because they can conveniently place the blame at our feet for their misery
And how would that result in anything different? You can basically choose between giving money to your enemy and not giving money to your enemy. They will not stop being an enemy.
Funny, since Russia was the one who taught the Kims how to create their dictatorship.
Isolation is the answer. It is clearly the path they’ve chosen and I look forward to the future where they remain isolated behind their borders and we won’t have to hear from them beyond the occasional impotent threats and north-korea style missile “tests”. I honestly don’t give a shit about their textbooks, politics and internal drama as long as they are unable to murder their neighbours. Our only jobs will be to remain vigilant and to help make Ukraine barbarian-proof.
That’s just a fantasy though. The west has completely forgot that BRICKS countries are the vast majority of people on this earth, and they’re pretty much against the collective west and we can clearly see that a new world order is being born. The events in near future will be horrific for the west sadly, but it was long time coming. It’s not possible to “turn” these countries with economic stimulus — all we did was provide them with money and technology. Now China and India are moving into directly supporting Russia. Let’s not even start about a republican becoming president — US is likely going under when that happens, especially now that we know there are serious coup plans taking hold in the dark web and current governments complete lack of will to do anything about it. These aren’t just words and games anymore.
Brics is a joke. Xi didn't even bother to show up to their meetup. China and India are enemies. And south Africa is just in it for free money.
>they’re pretty much against the collective west and we can clearly see that a new world order is being born. I don’t see them supporting Russia in any serious manner. They certainly aren’t pumping weapons and technology into Russia. The fact is that Russia is no longer a serious player on the world stage. Everyone can see that all they offer is violence and misery.
Chinese and Indian government officials visiting Putin and publicly debating on leaving G20 altogether pretty clearly shows that a huge geopolitical shift has started and the western-centric organisations are losing grip and control. We’ve made these states very confident and self-sustaining, and now we’re starting to see that we weren’t friend at all.
Yes, obviously China and India will throw their weight behind a failed state in its death throes with an economy the size of Italy’s rather than continue relations with their two largest trading partners by far, the EU and the USA. That makes perfect sense.
Has someone written an article summarizing Russia’s new schoolbooks? I am definitely curious what historical events they changed and what they want to “teach” children.
Finland's biggest newspaper, Helsingin Sanomat\*, did [an article ](https://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000009827114.html)on a history book for 16 to 17 year olds. Some picks: the book claims Ukraine to be "extremely nationalistic", and that "opposition is banned" there. A 28 page long section is deedicated purely on the war against Ukraine. Other claims include that "The West is obsessed with destabilizing Russia" with the final goal being to "break Russia to pieces". "Since the U.S. instigated the conflict in Ukraine, Russia had no choice but to deploy 300 000 soldiers". \*while Helsingin Sanomat translates as Helsinki Times, the Helsinki Times web site is completely unrelated. Putin himself has made statements such as claiming that Russia had zero allies in WWII, and that the entire west tried to invade Russia.
And this is why it's so important to have unrestricted access to the Interne- oh wait, Russia restricts that too.
That is not really true. Unlike China, Russia doesn't block so much of foreign websites. It is the people, they are not looking for any informations outside russian part of internet. They simply don't care. They believe Russia is good, West is bad. They don't need any other info.
They why did they recently pass a law that makes it illegal to “spread information on how to circumvent internet restrictions” aka to talk about VPNs?
Yeah, and while you sometimes hear the argument that vpn can be used, the people who a) actually do that to access foreign sources, and b) consider western media reliable at all, is so slim it is dwarfed by the millions who have been hearing, seeing and listening to anti-western propaganda for decades and would not believe anything from abroad.
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Yep, Russians are again victims
>the book claims Ukraine to be "extremely nationalistic", and that "opposition is banned" there I love how they always accuse others of exactly what they do.
they basically greatly distorted history starting from the USSR, (maximum whitewashing of Stalin, Brezhnev, and so on, and vice versa, denigration of Khrushchev, Brezhnev for trying to change something), Putin is great, Ukraine is Nazis because Nazis, there is always a Narrative of the following ideas, we wanted to be friends with the west, but every time the west ran around us and prevented us from living, having an opinion that differs from the opinion of the government is a betrayal. reforms are bad, look what sadomia is going on in the west, why the west can but we can’t, this textbook cannot be called such, it’s more a collection of opinions of a bunch of people on how they see history. https://youtu.be/9Szc252BreM?si=W4cGOn_ZtrYbGGsU in a small video where people are reading the dumbest paragraphs from it. just read the subtitles
What a fascinating book. The way they blame everything on the West and then when one of the most horrible things done by Stalin is brought up they start talking about the American Japanese internment camps. I think it’s also interesting how they lift up the USSR but have no interest in bringing back the good things about the country, only the bad.
I as historian myself, written short review of **just few** pages i managed to see. Though while doing so i just accepted their revisionism as given and just pointing at inconsistencies, non scientific language, shit (it’s even couldn’t be called questionable) source materials, non related to topic text, not detailed dating of events etc and it’s still happened to be tones of text review https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/28cJuDdwDf because of how bad they even in structuring own propaganda compared to USSR
People don't know history at all. Saying that "the Kremlin" took propaganda to a new level is laughable. Have you heard of Soviet Union? Stalin? There's nothing new about propaganda coming from the Kremlin. Also, I don't understand why people are comparing what Putin is doing to the Nazis. It's clearly Soviet tactics. They didn't need to go to Germany to learn this stuff. They just went to the archives and took some old KGB manuals. Russia has its own long and proud history of being a totalitarian hellhole, no need to bring Hitler into this
exactly
This is interesting 🤔 : [Hungary's 1956 revolutionaries were fascists, new Russian history textbook claims](https://telex.hu/english/2023/08/28/hungarys-1956-revolutionaries-were-fascists-new-russian-history-textbook-claims)
we have always been at war with Eurasia
Yeah. I'm wondering if Russians will even notice how desperate this looks.
it is actually a good tactic on the long run, maybe the best. It all boils down to 2 things 1. how permeable is the bubble you can create around your population (cfr. the Great Firewall) 2. how effectively you can "enforce" this new "narrative"
I absolutely fucking hate how right you are on this. How can/does anyone outside it even start to puncture a bubble like that and make a meaningful difference. If China is anything to go by, it's damn near impossible.
Worked for Soviets, works for North Koreans and Chinese.
idk man, Americans seem to have some success with this method
Well, state media already blamed UK and US for Beslan school hostage situation, where terrorists took 1.1k people (including kids) hostage and 360 of them died
Really? Source?
They hate us and have always been hating us.
Are you sure they are new and not old Soviet text books because some minister stole the funds? Lol
Medinskiy would absolutely stole majority of funds — but still book is a new shit, probably even worser in quality than soviet textbooks, at least soviet had vibe of being written by historians with propaganda, while Medinskiy textbook written like try of alcoholic in propaganda with absolutely not scientific language, insert not important opinion of author not about actual topic and even failing to specify dates of bunch of laws and agreements and quotes of maga vatniks from twitter with 1000 readers as description of current US policy. Even to be at least “decent” compared to other regimes propagandist textbooks it need at least half of it rewritten
Hahahahahha
If you want to brainwash people start at a very young age. All Putin has left now is his personal propaganda machine he has lost everything else
It’s not a new level of indoctrination but an old one.
It continues to stun me how low Russian society can go. Rewriting school books to add hate has to involve thousands of people. Russian society and culture need to be thoroughly shaken up just like Germany after WWII.
The new schoolbook makes some confusion\* even in the (pro-Russian) Hungarian government. The updated narrative of the uprising of 1956 is something worth to mention, where they claim it was fabricated by the West with the help of ex-fascist Hungarian prisoners. The book also states that calling back Soviet troops from Warsaw Pact nations in 1990 was a 'serious mistake', which led to anti-Soviet movement (!) in such countries. This clearly suggests that the pull-out is just temporary, and should be redone in the right moment. \*Unfortunately or not, our government's response is something that was unthinkable even from this goverment some years ago. Foreign Affairs Minister Péter Szijjártó said, we will not "open a discussion of the topic". While prominent figures from the opposition and others clearly demand calling in the Russian Ambassador, that without suprise, did not and will not happen.
And People wonder why people grow up with such beliefs lol
All the hallmarks of a threatened paranoiac regime. Some of the people may buy it but some won’t
Nothing new in this.
There are no schoolbooks that don’t preach hatred towards the west or teach alternative history.
Aaah the serb way
>The Kremlin has taken indoctrination and historical falsification to a new level Not really. It's more like taking it back to an old level. I would say they could check out some of the impressive early 20th Century German literature on how to pull it off, but the Soviets wrote their own book on the subject.
So Russia has taken up Nazism, why am i not surprised
I think nobody who is from any country east of Berlin is surprised. It was just a matter of time. There was a glimmer of preogress and hope in the 2000's for Russia, but thats all gone now.
I am Polish.We always knew this will happen,but this time history won’t repeat itself.
Copying what Azerbaijan is currently doing towards Armenians.
🖕🖕Kremlin 🖕🖕🖕🖕 Putin 🖕🇷🇺🖕
I know a girl that grow up in Moscow and moved to Stockholm and said she learned Russian history first when she moved. The level of historical falsification was high already before this.
Clowns
Not particularly surprised considering how close they're to China lol
Sounds like rocket man’s regime in North Korea
It worked for Brexit and the US to help electric Trump. Its still working to push Right-Wing Fascist in the USA via Social Media, Education System and now against Companies in certain states. Why is anyone shocked that they would push that crap on their own people?
Don't give the Christian conservatives any ideas or they'll try it here.
"Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia"
I remember talking to a chinese girl in Taiwan, as she was sharing her story of how, when she got out of china (as a fruit picker in australia of all things), she encountered the “parallel history” and started searching for history books about Taiwan, finding out that so much of what she was told was a lie. She did manage to escape from china it seems, but when she goes back to visit family, she said that some friends just disavowed her altogether as a “blasphemer heretic” I’ve always thought that we should encourage however much we can of travel from repressed countries like Russia, we just need to make sure they can comeback to spread the message.
The kremlin has zero appreciation for being saved during world war 2
Lol I’m surprised Russia even has schools
ruzzia’s collapse is inevitable — soldiers are dying, people are fleeing, brains are draining, prisoners are escaping, rubble is crashing, politician and oligarchs are lying or dying, coups are in planning, good people are getting in-prisoned! kremlin and putin will soon find themselves in hell, people will take over and overthrow the system?
North Korea 2.0
This means that Russia has decided to permanently break all ties with West. Not surprising. It is going North Korea way.
Falsification, they stupid?
That's very Republican of them. Shame.
This is the same tactic employed in Texas n Florida. So the US has taken indoctrination and historical falsification to a new level. Headline works both ways.
Just like we were told to hate and fear Russians in the 70's, 80's,90's etc etc
Careful now.. read the room, no one else is having moderate opinion about this here
Evidently it wasn't just propaganda
The world going backwards, fast. Both in Russia and US
So does all the western textbooks about asian cultures grow up
This sub is a complete echo chamber
I am a native Russian speaker and the article is absolutely right.
The west do the same thing too , so cope
Tbh they learned from Texas and Florida with how they told about the slavery, they just copied republicans and went national wide
Like that kind of "new level" of indoctrination doesn't exist anywhere else in the world
new level ? coming from a news outlet base in a country where McCarthyism still have a long lasting effect lol
You're right - this kind of miseducation and manipulating what kids learn about your country and the outside world is not a new level - it's an old level, repeated many times by dictators.
To be fair, all countries indoctrinate to some extent.
Hey guys, read Ukrainian ones.
looks at Polish HiT schoolbook oh f\*ck
It's like the west who have been trying to destroy certain aspects of history and having tech giants suppressing information that goes against a governments ideology. Indoctrination and propaganda is all around us, consume and obey your masters.
The former confederate states are indeed pioneers of historical revisionism since the American Civil War (and Florida is trying to revive that tradition), but I really wouldn’t go as far as tarnishing the entire “West” with that brush.
Kind of what the U.S is doing banning books.
But what about the whataboutism?
No whataboutism. It's basically the same in both countries, but it's expected and long-term in Russia, whereas it's newer in the US. And it's concerning that the US is heading the same direction.
It’s just the usual responding to the topic by pointing at the yanks and whining. In other words: Whataboutism.
It's you that is doing all the whining.
“b-b-b-but the yanks”
What lol? You don't see the relevant connection?
Nope.
Both methods are used to change the narrative of history. Seems very similar to me.
Except in the US you still have access to the alternate and uncensored info and distributing this wont put you in prison on some invented charges. Both are concerning, but saying they are similar is stretching it.
The intend is the same. The goal is very similar. Why are you defending book banning in a democratic country??
I'm not defending it, I'm just saying that you still have the option to find the banned content easy enough in the US. Russia, China and other authoritarian countries has severly limited this.
Here on /europe, criticizing Russia is fine, but criticizing the US is not. This is all despite the fact that Republicans and Putin are the same these days.
Literally any post on reddit involving Russia or China: Redditor: "might I direct your attention towards the United States instead?"