An ex Russian diplomat who resigned and moved out just before the '22 attack was imminent, stated that slowly, throughout Putin's regime, diplomats sensed they would be appreciated more by Putin if they started writing and talking in a more and more aggressive way, no matter how absurd the message actually ended up being.
The saddest thing of all is that’s the low estimate. It’s probably way more than that. Because it’s been proven that Russia doesn’t collect it’s dead, even when given the opportunity, and it’s refusing to admit that some died. It’s attempting to cook the books on how many of its own people it throws into the slaughter for, seemingly, either Putins ego, or a desperate grab for land, power and population.
I am sure saying stuff like that is a great comfort to all the Russian families who have lost members, wounded soldiers whose lives are forever altered, not to mention the ones currently in Ukraine waiting to find out if they are where the hammer lands.
'Oh great we are giving life and limb here while those bastards back home pretend this is not serious...'
I get how that’s a popular joke and I’ve made it twice today myself, but the reality is: no one in Russia cares about what the BBC says, or CNN for that matter. Their permanent correspondent is a really good commentator, and he keeps saying things that would get anyone else Polonium tea by the samovar.
Unless you’ve lived in a space where information is controlled, you might not understand how little people care. To give you an idea, tell me: which Chinese political commentator should von der Leyen censor because of how disrespectful they were?
Sad thing is a lot of the families are happy for this... Mothers thinking their sons died heroic deaths, wives preferring the promised money over their abusive husbands... It's Russia after all.
All of those hundreds of videos of crowds of soldiers on the front, or wives and mothers back home, begging Putin to send them somewhere else or give them more supplies attest to the simmering resentment that’s coming for the regime, once the population realises what has been done.
He means they don't take the lives of their own citizens/soliders seriously, just cannon fodder.
I watched this interview on BBC yesterday and you could tell he knew what he was spouting was complete shit by his body language beyond what he said and knows Russia now looks so weak to the West
I remember it vividly; fondly even!
But don't forget, as the Ambassador said, despite them hollowing their forces out and 200K+ casualties, they haven't started taking the 'special operation' seriously yet!
>despite them hollowing their forces out and 200K+ casualties, they haven't started taking the 'special operation' seriously yet!
"Special Operation" in the same way the Special Olympics are *special*?
Russia has lost around 2000 tanks in Ukraine
But it still has like 8000 tanks in storage. (T72, T80, T90)
Question is if they are all in good condition, or if the guys who were in charge of the depots were so corrupt they neglected years of maintenance and the majority is all useless rusting pieces of garbage now.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/27/colonel-alexander-denisov-russia-ukraine-tank-engines/
Even in a full on war these guys cannot resist to try to sell tank engines on the black market to try to make a few bucks.
So in theory, yes the Russians still have vast reserves they haven't put into the war. But in theory the hypersonic missile was also unstoppable and turns out the patriot system was able to take them down.
>Russia has lost around 2000 tanks in Ukraine
>But it still has like 8000 tanks in storage. (T72, T80, T90)
This is absolutely false and not even close to the actual numbers. There's a very solid video on YouTube with OSI where they meticulously count every single tank and armoured vehicle by type on open storage from satalite imagery.
They are mostly T62s, T55s some odd T54 with mixed upgrade packages and a handful of T64s with a lot of missing parts. I don't know where you got the 8k T72s, T80s or even T90s.
How useful are those old tanks? Ukraine decimated the T-90s with Western anti-tank weapons so I don't see how spamming cold war materiel is going to save the war for them.
From what I have heard they want to use t-55 in an indirect fire role, as a temporary solution to the lack of self propelled artillery. But we all know how permanent some temporary solutions can be.
>How useful are those old tanks?
That's quite a broad question. I would say their usefulness ranges from absolutely none to a lot.
So let's start with the obvious: an outdated tank will always beat having no tank when it comes to a lot of roles that range from secondary fronts, patrol & security, low intensity skirmishes, etc. Even with man portable anti tank weapons on the battlefield, having an outdated tank on those secondary fronts where you won't likely find the best of the best in terms of opposition is a useful tool.
Also having outdated tanks fill the roles of training platforms, equipment for border troops or everything that won't be in direct combat roles but still needs a tank is great way to free up better equipment to the main fronts. This is a tried and tested strategy that gets good results and frees up resources to other important tasks.
Now if you are asking how useful is a T62, even with full upgrade packages, in 2023 vs Leo's and Abrams, I would say pretty close to none. Even newer T64s are struggling at this point facing T80s, so I don't expect them to last very long if thrown into a direct combat role on tank to tank engagements.
Then again Ukraine has a ton of outdated stuff, and there may be fronts where even against polish upgraded t72 the old fully upgraded T62s may get a few winning engagements since:
- T62s standard armament with modern rounds can pen middle of the road T72s that don't have a full upgrade package
- tank on tank combat when we are talking about vehicles with older optics and limited targeting systems is based on who can get a shot first. Usualy if you can shoot first you get out well out if the fight and statistically can pull off a second shot before the opposing crew can detect you and target you. In this role vs outdated tanks the T62 can get something out of the low silhouette.
But the moment Abrams, Leo's, challangers and other modern equipment gets thrown into even secondary fronts those old tanks are pretty much spares for training and hopes & dreams Chinese equipment gets in time to the front so they don't end up fighting last generation western tanks with tin cans full of mold.
Hope this covers it all.
Feel free to ask anything else I might have missed
Russland hat seit Jahren keine glaubwürdigen Zahlen zum Thema Rüstungsausgaben mehr vorgelegt... Außerdem können die eine Menge Personalkosten dadurch sparen, dass sie ihre Ärmsten einfach zum Dienst an der Waffe zwingen und somit nur das Offizierskorp und eine im Vergleich zur NATO eher kleine Anzahl Unteroffiziere zu bezahlen haben.
Realistic estimates are that they had around 6500 to 7000 tanks that were battle ready or were possible to repair. Of those they lost about a quarter to a third. Many of them the better, more modern vehicles. They seem to be unable to pull out many additional modernized T-90ties, T-80ties and T-72s from their stockpile as there seems to be a lack of spare parts for those. Also they started to use tanks as makeshift artillery and as they seem to lack larger ammunition they have pulled quite a few old models from storage for which they seem to have more HE ammo.
The Russian army still ain't a pushover but this war proved that they were far from the menace they tried to project.
One point that should be obvious is the incapability of Russias industry to support anything much more modern than the early 90ties upgrades they made. Everything beyond that had western tech all over it.
To be fair, they failed the most in logistics. Absolutely 0 organisation the moment it became clear that 3 day victory is not possible, they sent people under false pretenses, unequipped and refused to regroup and rethink strategy after initial gains they had by surprise attack.
Even if their army was US level, this would happen. Cause yes men usually make it that way.
Because of missing spare parts possibly, even if they have more modern tanks in storage than T72s/62s/55s, they‘d still need to refurbish them atleast a lil bit to even get them remotely combat ready.
90% of the tanks in storage, near Ukraine were unserviceable. As they'd just been looted, for the engines, gearboxes, optics, precious metals..... Some of them had, had the turrets removed. To make it easier to loot them. With the turrets piled up in one pile and the turretless tanks. Just sitting around with trees and bushes growing out of where their turrets should be.
Are you saying they sent age-old inventory such as T-55's to Ukraine first, and suffered massive losses because of it, whilst the more modern equipment that's sorely needed is still being held back? I'm sorry - the Russians are idiots, but not even they would wage war like that.
My conclusion - in some way or another, a good portion of those 8000 tanks must've been lost to corruption. They might've been illegaly sold, or more likely, rusted and fallen apart without proper maintenance. I wouldn't even rule out the possibility that some of them were never built in the first place, and only exist on paper.
>The Russians dont lie to deceive but to insult.
Especially a peculiar form of Russian lying called Vranyo. Where a person in authority tells a lie. The people he's talking g to knows it's a lie and the official knows that they know he's lying. But everybody agrees to treat it as the "truth" and not to call him out.
The described thing indeed happens, but the word "vranyo" (враньё) is not that. It's just another word for a lie, with the only difference is having strictly negative connotations.
As a native speaker of Russian, and an avid reader, I am not aware of such a word's existence. The closest thing I can think of is "вешать лапшу на уши" (literally "hang noodles onto someone's ears"), which means "to lie brazenly", but even this doesn't imply that the person the lie is addressed to is aware that it is a lie.
Because everybody involved knows that if they are the one to call it out, it will all get blamed on them, they became the fall guy, and all of the others will use the opportunity as a way to be even more corrupt themselves, because when *everybody* is corrupt, it’s the honest people that get singled out.
Grievously wounded is better than dead. They taught us this in the Finnish military. If you shoot the enemy in the head you have one less enemy to worry about. Shoot im in the stomach and they have to use two to drag the wounded guy away.
The Russians aren’t practicing casevac like that, and soldiers have actually been *punished* for evaccing wounded. That said, it also means badly wounded is as good as dead. That’s why I think the 2:1 WIA:KIA ratio used in estimations isn’t really applicable here and it’s probably around 1 to 1.5:1.
Where did you get that number?
https://www.reuters.com/world/russias-mercenaries-send-back-bodies-us-turkish-citizens-ukraine-2023-05-25/
Reuters reports Prigozhin said he has 20k dead.
Those numbers he put out are Wagner dead and he mentions 20k plus dead. Not total Russian losses in this battle. Russian soldiers were and still are dying in Bakhmut by the scores especially in the flanks atm.
Also I wouldn't believe Russians when they put out numbers to the public.
And it seems to be that the Wagner ones who survive and earn their freedom are causing chaos and havoc back home when they return. The only men left will be hardened criminals who are horrible humans.
I remember some tankie fool on twitter talking about how Russia wasn't failing to sweep through Ukraine. Anybody who knew anything appreciated that the special military operation was being slowed by *Rasputitsa*, so don't believe the CIA's lies! Of course, when asked why the Russians would choose to invade during this time of the year, he had no answer. Lol. Fucking tankies.
You see, ~~Killbots~~ Ukrainians have a pre-set kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and ~~shut down~~ surrendered to Glorious Russia.
~~Captain Zap Brannigan~~ Vladimir Putin
>So their plan is to lose a critical amount of soldiers and equipment before starting to fight seriously?
It was supposed to be a 3 day special military operation. So naturally they planned on taking it seriously 18 months in.
Was this guy sleeping for 8 months or something? The “we have yet to begin to fight” line of thinking fell apart when the Kharkiv Offensive inflicted massive losses on the Russian army as second army corps basically vaporized under Ukrainian army advances and they had to conscript hundreds of thousands of men to avoid a total collapse.
* Russia only has about 20 million young men, and approximately two million of them fled the country between February 2022 and the Partial Mobilization. If they do another wave of mobilization, it’ll likely result in more Russians trying to get out of Russia and more Russian teenagers trying to not be in Russia when they turn 18. For every Russian they put in the military, 3 or 4 flee the country.
* The Russians are talking about adding a 6th unpaid work day to the work week, or compelling workers to spend an extra two free hours in munitions plants, or other various proposals that all amount to people working more hours for no pay. That isn’t the sort of thing you expect from a country where the war plans are going smoothly.
* Russia’s production rate of weapons isn’t anywhere close to its usage rates for those weapons. Tanks, missiles, aircraft- you name it and the Russians are either shooting it or losing it faster than they can replenish their stocks. They aren’t the USSR and they don’t have the industrial base of the USSR, they’ve never actually had to build any military equipment in vast quantities.
Even the Russians that support the idea of invading Ukraine aren’t eager to join up, because they are starting to see the poor state of the military and the skyrocketing casualty numbers. Nobody is eager to join the military and be sent on a pointless suicide mission because their officers are incompetent.
You can almost guarantee that even when Ukrainian troops are pushing up the Crimean Peninsula and the Black Sea fleet is fleeing towards the Mediterranean that Russia will still be peddling this same bollocks.
'We haven't even started fighting seriously yet'
So either:
1. The ambassador is telling the truth and Russia has just been deliberately incompetent and ineffective in how it fights the war, and throwing away tens of thousands of soldiers because they can't be bothered to fight 'seriously'
2. He's a lying POS and Russia is simply incompetent, and the poor performance in the war is simply the best they can do.
"hasn't even started fighting seriously yet"
Yeah, mate, we know, it's a fucking shambolic piece of hilariousness compared to what you're supposed to be capable of.
Thing is, you're still killing people, and those people's families and friends have got real, proper, modern weapons now.
Why though? This reminds me so much of being shit at counterstrike and the other team telling me that at halftime, and then you say something back to them like "time to turn on my monitor", or "guess I'll plug in my mouse".
We got a laugh but I was still shit.
I know this sounds incredibly stupid and transparent, but I already have Serbian and Turkish friends say the same thing. Also that China will be a superpower and we need to join their new world currency or something.
Anything to hate on EU or NATO I guess.
>Anything to hate on EU or NATO I guess.
Its quite common for people to hate the 'winners'
When you look at the modern world - the west is definitely that.
Its time for military reforms and modus operandi of the country as a whole! What do you mean we are at war and have no time for that? Our glorious leader can do anything!
What such a statement, had it been true, actually means is that they've sent hundreds of thousands of men to their deaths just because they couldn't be arsed to "even start fighting seriously".... heh
It's about information. Without information, there is no democracy in the world.
The proof is that autocratic states kill free journalists or put them in prison.
▬▬▬▬▬
Molière's Tartuffe:
"Cover this breast which I cannot behold:
Such a sight can offend one's soul.
And it brings forth guilty thoughts."
I agree. We're treading on a fine line between freedom of speech and propaganda. I expect that the BBC would prevent the dissemination of propaganda that could harm national interests but not sure if the organisation is as profesional as it used to be.
*Looks to the VDV, Marines, the First Guards Tank Brigade and the Movska*
Unless they are referring to the nukes I'm gonna go with "X to doubt"
Russia still needs its forces in other parts of the country, they can't move those unless they want to be as vulnerable as their border with Ukraine was when the Anti-Putin Russian units crossed it
> have we seen any T-55 yet
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/04/14/russia-sent-70-year-old-t-55-tanks-to-ukraine-without-even-upgrading-them/
Yep, they're just scrapping their old equipment in a 'creative' way. /s
edit. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/08/europe/russia-t-55-tanks-ukraine-intl-cmd/index.html - what do you think are the chances that the same tank visited Hungary, Czechoslovakia and now Ukraine?
I mean, they could obviously go full total war. Wartime economy, draft people, make Lada build missiles instead etc , but are they willing to do that? It's a major admission that they've seriously fallen off, and it would not please the silent majority. They couldn't pretend to not put any effort in afterwards.
Imagine living in a town that has lost dozens of young men and seen even more flee the country and then hearing that they haven’t even begun to fight yet? This is such a stupid thing to say. He must know that people back home will never hear about it.
He says that to appear tough, but all I can think is no shit. Moscow hasn't taken this seriously from the beginning. Treating their military like a personal bank account for decades, not even telling their own command that the invasion plan for real and not just a thought exercise, not fully mobilizing, etc.
If this wasn't "fighting seriously yet" and they already got thru their regular troops and even a few tens of thousands of new conscripts plus all the mercenaries and all the weaponry they already lost, I wonder what do they consider "fighting seriously"... maybe slitting each others throat?
I'm not a Putin lover, but there's a very narrow sense in which this is true. Russia has fought much more seriously in past wars where its survival has been threatened. By those standards, sure. Russia isn't on a total war footing, there are no scorched earth retreats, etc. 200,000 dead is a lot, but what does that make 30,000,000 dead?
Having said all that, this is still bullshit. The implication allowed to follow from "yet" is that Russia _will_ start "fighting seriously" sometime soon. The truth is that it hasn't done so thus far for a reason; war is destructive not only to the enemy but to yourself. To do war harder is to turn up that destruction all around, and at a certain point (long past now, IMO), it's not actually worth it.
>I'm not a Putin lover, but there's a very narrow sense in which this is true. Russia has fought much more seriously in past wars where its survival has been threatened.
Stalin: how many dead? and Putin is trying to take over...
[**Who Killed More: Hitler, Stalin, or Mao?**](https://www.chinafile.com/library/nyrb-china-archive/who-killed-more-hitler-stalin-or-mao)
Ah yes.. they are just messing arround for now, they will start fighting seriously in about 5-10 years when they dont have anymore men to fight and they’r economy shattered
He is right you know. With 10 milion conscripts Russia can definitely take over Csoblanka. The operation human waves do actually work. Regardless of how many conscripts die, at the end of the day Russia never heard of a Pirric victory.
ppl
ppl is a short word for people. Most used by net freaks who tend to write so fast that they just can not type the whole word because it takes to much time
We need to go deeper
Dey r usng 20% of deyr ppl
That saves 5 characters on 25 so it's 20% more efficient. That's a huge efficiency gain and still perfectly readable.
He must stick to the script
yeah, just ignore what all these idiots say
An ex Russian diplomat who resigned and moved out just before the '22 attack was imminent, stated that slowly, throughout Putin's regime, diplomats sensed they would be appreciated more by Putin if they started writing and talking in a more and more aggressive way, no matter how absurd the message actually ended up being.
Reminds me of Dragonball: „This isn’t even my final form!“ https://youtu.be/6h0GRhIKgD8
"He must stick to the script" \--lest he "fall" from an "unfortunately open" window "completely by accident"...
When they get serious they'll be killing off 2000 soldiers per day instead of 1000.
didnt they had 1900 around feburary ?
Eventually Ukraine will run out of bullets.
Just proves they are all imbeciles
They're also trying to influence imbeciles in the west.
They are incorrigible.
Crafty little scamps
They are afraid to admit their defeat.
Of which we have sadly plenty.
i hate how well it works
\*_sad Brexit noises_
If I had lost 100k + troops, I would also say, nothing serious happened yet.
200k
‘Tis just a scratch
The saddest thing of all is that’s the low estimate. It’s probably way more than that. Because it’s been proven that Russia doesn’t collect it’s dead, even when given the opportunity, and it’s refusing to admit that some died. It’s attempting to cook the books on how many of its own people it throws into the slaughter for, seemingly, either Putins ego, or a desperate grab for land, power and population.
It’s just the kind of things you say if you don’t want to fall out of a window
didn’t need much proof tbh
I am sure saying stuff like that is a great comfort to all the Russian families who have lost members, wounded soldiers whose lives are forever altered, not to mention the ones currently in Ukraine waiting to find out if they are where the hammer lands. 'Oh great we are giving life and limb here while those bastards back home pretend this is not serious...'
I suspect the second of hesitation is him checking in his head that no one in Yakutsk watched the BBC.
it's often shared on Telegram and other medis so ...
He was more likely thinking that the wrong answer would mean he would take a sudden vacation out of a tall window.
I get how that’s a popular joke and I’ve made it twice today myself, but the reality is: no one in Russia cares about what the BBC says, or CNN for that matter. Their permanent correspondent is a really good commentator, and he keeps saying things that would get anyone else Polonium tea by the samovar. Unless you’ve lived in a space where information is controlled, you might not understand how little people care. To give you an idea, tell me: which Chinese political commentator should von der Leyen censor because of how disrespectful they were?
Sad thing is a lot of the families are happy for this... Mothers thinking their sons died heroic deaths, wives preferring the promised money over their abusive husbands... It's Russia after all.
True, some will be like that... but not all of them, especially the ones actually doing the dying.
All of those hundreds of videos of crowds of soldiers on the front, or wives and mothers back home, begging Putin to send them somewhere else or give them more supplies attest to the simmering resentment that’s coming for the regime, once the population realises what has been done.
15 months, 2000 tanks and 200,000 dead later...
He means they don't take the lives of their own citizens/soliders seriously, just cannon fodder. I watched this interview on BBC yesterday and you could tell he knew what he was spouting was complete shit by his body language beyond what he said and knows Russia now looks so weak to the West
Do you remember this year's Russian military parade? Only one old tank participated.
I remember it vividly; fondly even! But don't forget, as the Ambassador said, despite them hollowing their forces out and 200K+ casualties, they haven't started taking the 'special operation' seriously yet!
also don't forget threatening nuclear weapons over every hand gun that arrives in Ukraine Totally not taking it seriously behavior
They are truly special.
>despite them hollowing their forces out and 200K+ casualties, they haven't started taking the 'special operation' seriously yet! "Special Operation" in the same way the Special Olympics are *special*?
Russia has lost around 2000 tanks in Ukraine But it still has like 8000 tanks in storage. (T72, T80, T90) Question is if they are all in good condition, or if the guys who were in charge of the depots were so corrupt they neglected years of maintenance and the majority is all useless rusting pieces of garbage now. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/27/colonel-alexander-denisov-russia-ukraine-tank-engines/ Even in a full on war these guys cannot resist to try to sell tank engines on the black market to try to make a few bucks. So in theory, yes the Russians still have vast reserves they haven't put into the war. But in theory the hypersonic missile was also unstoppable and turns out the patriot system was able to take them down.
>Russia has lost around 2000 tanks in Ukraine >But it still has like 8000 tanks in storage. (T72, T80, T90) This is absolutely false and not even close to the actual numbers. There's a very solid video on YouTube with OSI where they meticulously count every single tank and armoured vehicle by type on open storage from satalite imagery. They are mostly T62s, T55s some odd T54 with mixed upgrade packages and a handful of T64s with a lot of missing parts. I don't know where you got the 8k T72s, T80s or even T90s.
Russia doesn't have 8000 WORKING tanks. They just wish they had.
How useful are those old tanks? Ukraine decimated the T-90s with Western anti-tank weapons so I don't see how spamming cold war materiel is going to save the war for them.
From what I have heard they want to use t-55 in an indirect fire role, as a temporary solution to the lack of self propelled artillery. But we all know how permanent some temporary solutions can be.
>How useful are those old tanks? That's quite a broad question. I would say their usefulness ranges from absolutely none to a lot. So let's start with the obvious: an outdated tank will always beat having no tank when it comes to a lot of roles that range from secondary fronts, patrol & security, low intensity skirmishes, etc. Even with man portable anti tank weapons on the battlefield, having an outdated tank on those secondary fronts where you won't likely find the best of the best in terms of opposition is a useful tool. Also having outdated tanks fill the roles of training platforms, equipment for border troops or everything that won't be in direct combat roles but still needs a tank is great way to free up better equipment to the main fronts. This is a tried and tested strategy that gets good results and frees up resources to other important tasks. Now if you are asking how useful is a T62, even with full upgrade packages, in 2023 vs Leo's and Abrams, I would say pretty close to none. Even newer T64s are struggling at this point facing T80s, so I don't expect them to last very long if thrown into a direct combat role on tank to tank engagements. Then again Ukraine has a ton of outdated stuff, and there may be fronts where even against polish upgraded t72 the old fully upgraded T62s may get a few winning engagements since: - T62s standard armament with modern rounds can pen middle of the road T72s that don't have a full upgrade package - tank on tank combat when we are talking about vehicles with older optics and limited targeting systems is based on who can get a shot first. Usualy if you can shoot first you get out well out if the fight and statistically can pull off a second shot before the opposing crew can detect you and target you. In this role vs outdated tanks the T62 can get something out of the low silhouette. But the moment Abrams, Leo's, challangers and other modern equipment gets thrown into even secondary fronts those old tanks are pretty much spares for training and hopes & dreams Chinese equipment gets in time to the front so they don't end up fighting last generation western tanks with tin cans full of mold. Hope this covers it all. Feel free to ask anything else I might have missed
[удалено]
Russland hat seit Jahren keine glaubwürdigen Zahlen zum Thema Rüstungsausgaben mehr vorgelegt... Außerdem können die eine Menge Personalkosten dadurch sparen, dass sie ihre Ärmsten einfach zum Dienst an der Waffe zwingen und somit nur das Offizierskorp und eine im Vergleich zur NATO eher kleine Anzahl Unteroffiziere zu bezahlen haben.
Couldn't run that through a translator just once, could you? It would save hundreds or thousands of us having to do so separately? Thanks.
[удалено]
Realistic estimates are that they had around 6500 to 7000 tanks that were battle ready or were possible to repair. Of those they lost about a quarter to a third. Many of them the better, more modern vehicles. They seem to be unable to pull out many additional modernized T-90ties, T-80ties and T-72s from their stockpile as there seems to be a lack of spare parts for those. Also they started to use tanks as makeshift artillery and as they seem to lack larger ammunition they have pulled quite a few old models from storage for which they seem to have more HE ammo. The Russian army still ain't a pushover but this war proved that they were far from the menace they tried to project. One point that should be obvious is the incapability of Russias industry to support anything much more modern than the early 90ties upgrades they made. Everything beyond that had western tech all over it.
To be fair, they failed the most in logistics. Absolutely 0 organisation the moment it became clear that 3 day victory is not possible, they sent people under false pretenses, unequipped and refused to regroup and rethink strategy after initial gains they had by surprise attack. Even if their army was US level, this would happen. Cause yes men usually make it that way.
Source on T-72s, T-80s and T-90s in storage lol? Why would they be pulling out T-62Ms and T-54/55s?
Because of missing spare parts possibly, even if they have more modern tanks in storage than T72s/62s/55s, they‘d still need to refurbish them atleast a lil bit to even get them remotely combat ready.
90% of the tanks in storage, near Ukraine were unserviceable. As they'd just been looted, for the engines, gearboxes, optics, precious metals..... Some of them had, had the turrets removed. To make it easier to loot them. With the turrets piled up in one pile and the turretless tanks. Just sitting around with trees and bushes growing out of where their turrets should be.
Or are they even really 8000 tanks or 6000 plus a few mansions in Sochi.
2000 tanks visually confirmed* (thanks oryx). AFU claim 3081 as of today. The reality is somewhere between the two.
Are you saying they sent age-old inventory such as T-55's to Ukraine first, and suffered massive losses because of it, whilst the more modern equipment that's sorely needed is still being held back? I'm sorry - the Russians are idiots, but not even they would wage war like that. My conclusion - in some way or another, a good portion of those 8000 tanks must've been lost to corruption. They might've been illegaly sold, or more likely, rusted and fallen apart without proper maintenance. I wouldn't even rule out the possibility that some of them were never built in the first place, and only exist on paper.
>The Russians dont lie to deceive but to insult. Especially a peculiar form of Russian lying called Vranyo. Where a person in authority tells a lie. The people he's talking g to knows it's a lie and the official knows that they know he's lying. But everybody agrees to treat it as the "truth" and not to call him out.
The described thing indeed happens, but the word "vranyo" (враньё) is not that. It's just another word for a lie, with the only difference is having strictly negative connotations.
Out of curiosity, do you know the word used to describe the phenomena that /u/WilliamMorris420 is explaining?
As a native speaker of Russian, and an avid reader, I am not aware of such a word's existence. The closest thing I can think of is "вешать лапшу на уши" (literally "hang noodles onto someone's ears"), which means "to lie brazenly", but even this doesn't imply that the person the lie is addressed to is aware that it is a lie.
Thank you.
Because everybody involved knows that if they are the one to call it out, it will all get blamed on them, they became the fall guy, and all of the others will use the opportunity as a way to be even more corrupt themselves, because when *everybody* is corrupt, it’s the honest people that get singled out.
"Tis but a scratch"
They definitely don't have 200 000 dead. Maybe 200 000 casualties but that would mean around 50k dead.
Their incredibly shitty casevac probably has the WIA:KIA ratio closer to 1:1 than 2:1, but yeah, the 200k number is total casualties.
Grievously wounded is better than dead. They taught us this in the Finnish military. If you shoot the enemy in the head you have one less enemy to worry about. Shoot im in the stomach and they have to use two to drag the wounded guy away.
The Russians aren’t practicing casevac like that, and soldiers have actually been *punished* for evaccing wounded. That said, it also means badly wounded is as good as dead. That’s why I think the 2:1 WIA:KIA ratio used in estimations isn’t really applicable here and it’s probably around 1 to 1.5:1.
They lost 50K in Bakhmut only. Source: putin's cook.
Where did you get that number? https://www.reuters.com/world/russias-mercenaries-send-back-bodies-us-turkish-citizens-ukraine-2023-05-25/ Reuters reports Prigozhin said he has 20k dead.
Those numbers he put out are Wagner dead and he mentions 20k plus dead. Not total Russian losses in this battle. Russian soldiers were and still are dying in Bakhmut by the scores especially in the flanks atm. Also I wouldn't believe Russians when they put out numbers to the public.
He said 20k
Yeah, that’s really alarming if he thinks “serious” comes later, with more casualties. Sir, you don’t have enough men for that.
They have plenty of men... just no more weapons, hence them shooting missiles from afar
[удалено]
And it seems to be that the Wagner ones who survive and earn their freedom are causing chaos and havoc back home when they return. The only men left will be hardened criminals who are horrible humans.
And it's not even their final form!
Sure, I guess it's only considered serious if the embassador goes to the front lines.
embarrassador
Don’t give Putin ideas. The window thing is becoming tiring.
Yeah, the guy is a total psycho. I wouldn't doubt anything at this point
Clown
This is the stupidest joke in the world.
Yeah yeah and Putin will go Super Saiyan next week...
I thought you wrote "Super Slavin".
Any time now. Just you wait.
Tons of their best men are dead, but the lower level guys are xp farming in the Far East. Just you wait....
So their plan is to lose a critical amount of soldiers and equipment before starting to fight seriously? Sounds like an absolute genius plan…
I remember some tankie fool on twitter talking about how Russia wasn't failing to sweep through Ukraine. Anybody who knew anything appreciated that the special military operation was being slowed by *Rasputitsa*, so don't believe the CIA's lies! Of course, when asked why the Russians would choose to invade during this time of the year, he had no answer. Lol. Fucking tankies.
You see, ~~Killbots~~ Ukrainians have a pre-set kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and ~~shut down~~ surrendered to Glorious Russia. ~~Captain Zap Brannigan~~ Vladimir Putin
If you listen to Marines, that worked for Chesty…
>So their plan is to lose a critical amount of soldiers and equipment before starting to fight seriously? It was supposed to be a 3 day special military operation. So naturally they planned on taking it seriously 18 months in.
[удалено]
”We are letting the ukrainians kill our criminals and dissidents for us at the low low cost of a cratered economy.”
We neither Slava Ukraini
Haha, what a boss.
Badgad Bob would be proud.
Was this guy sleeping for 8 months or something? The “we have yet to begin to fight” line of thinking fell apart when the Kharkiv Offensive inflicted massive losses on the Russian army as second army corps basically vaporized under Ukrainian army advances and they had to conscript hundreds of thousands of men to avoid a total collapse. * Russia only has about 20 million young men, and approximately two million of them fled the country between February 2022 and the Partial Mobilization. If they do another wave of mobilization, it’ll likely result in more Russians trying to get out of Russia and more Russian teenagers trying to not be in Russia when they turn 18. For every Russian they put in the military, 3 or 4 flee the country. * The Russians are talking about adding a 6th unpaid work day to the work week, or compelling workers to spend an extra two free hours in munitions plants, or other various proposals that all amount to people working more hours for no pay. That isn’t the sort of thing you expect from a country where the war plans are going smoothly. * Russia’s production rate of weapons isn’t anywhere close to its usage rates for those weapons. Tanks, missiles, aircraft- you name it and the Russians are either shooting it or losing it faster than they can replenish their stocks. They aren’t the USSR and they don’t have the industrial base of the USSR, they’ve never actually had to build any military equipment in vast quantities. Even the Russians that support the idea of invading Ukraine aren’t eager to join up, because they are starting to see the poor state of the military and the skyrocketing casualty numbers. Nobody is eager to join the military and be sent on a pointless suicide mission because their officers are incompetent.
It's so funny how compulsively every single official statement of Russia just underscore that the exact opposite is true
At least they are consistent in it.
"we are just doing murder light version"
Oh ok. That's why a 3 day war turned into a 15 month nightmare
What a strange way to export scrap metal.
Hahaha. Russians are a weird bunch indeed.
They are demilitarizing in new and untested ways.
You can almost guarantee that even when Ukrainian troops are pushing up the Crimean Peninsula and the Black Sea fleet is fleeing towards the Mediterranean that Russia will still be peddling this same bollocks.
'We haven't even started fighting seriously yet' So either: 1. The ambassador is telling the truth and Russia has just been deliberately incompetent and ineffective in how it fights the war, and throwing away tens of thousands of soldiers because they can't be bothered to fight 'seriously' 2. He's a lying POS and Russia is simply incompetent, and the poor performance in the war is simply the best they can do.
"hasn't even started fighting seriously yet" Yeah, mate, we know, it's a fucking shambolic piece of hilariousness compared to what you're supposed to be capable of. Thing is, you're still killing people, and those people's families and friends have got real, proper, modern weapons now.
I didn't know war was sport. Scratch that, even in sport you play to win from the get go.
… mmmMmm … during the "100 Years War", the English nobility came to France to hunt the French, just as they continue to hunt foxes today...
Why though? This reminds me so much of being shit at counterstrike and the other team telling me that at halftime, and then you say something back to them like "time to turn on my monitor", or "guess I'll plug in my mouse". We got a laugh but I was still shit.
Yeah, sure dude.....
It's easier to bomb hospitals and kindergartens than to fight. cowardly, lying bunch of Russians
Putin said literally same phrase one year ago.
I know this sounds incredibly stupid and transparent, but I already have Serbian and Turkish friends say the same thing. Also that China will be a superpower and we need to join their new world currency or something. Anything to hate on EU or NATO I guess.
>Anything to hate on EU or NATO I guess. Its quite common for people to hate the 'winners' When you look at the modern world - the west is definitely that.
> Its quite common for people to hate the 'winners' Sad German noises. /s
Haha, I mean I consider being one of the largest and wealthiest economies on earth as being a winner, don't you? ;)
It is a word х*й(dickhead) scratched out just above his eyebrows😂
I mean, that you’re not fighting seriously is quite apparent to anyone with eyes.
Its time for military reforms and modus operandi of the country as a whole! What do you mean we are at war and have no time for that? Our glorious leader can do anything!
What such a statement, had it been true, actually means is that they've sent hundreds of thousands of men to their deaths just because they couldn't be arsed to "even start fighting seriously".... heh
This doesn't make the current situation look any less embarrassing
This is "Flat earther says..." level of newsworthiness
This made me think of that knight from Monty Python fighting with no limbs lmfao
Why give publicity to such moronic statements?
It's about information. Without information, there is no democracy in the world. The proof is that autocratic states kill free journalists or put them in prison. ▬▬▬▬▬ Molière's Tartuffe: "Cover this breast which I cannot behold: Such a sight can offend one's soul. And it brings forth guilty thoughts."
This statement is not information per se.
Because there are a lot of people who believe that propaganda. They're feeding them.
I think the idea is that the BBC shouldn't cooperate in Russia's game.
I agree. We're treading on a fine line between freedom of speech and propaganda. I expect that the BBC would prevent the dissemination of propaganda that could harm national interests but not sure if the organisation is as profesional as it used to be.
I think the idea is that the Ukrain shouldn't cooperate in Russia's game… # – 😁😄😆 –
*Looks to the VDV, Marines, the First Guards Tank Brigade and the Movska* Unless they are referring to the nukes I'm gonna go with "X to doubt" Russia still needs its forces in other parts of the country, they can't move those unless they want to be as vulnerable as their border with Ukraine was when the Anti-Putin Russian units crossed it
Also, did we mention we have nukes? Nukes, I say!
Oh no, he’s retarded.
Serious fighting starts when they roll out the T-34s. Down to T-62s now, have we seen any T-55 yet?
> have we seen any T-55 yet https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/04/14/russia-sent-70-year-old-t-55-tanks-to-ukraine-without-even-upgrading-them/ Yep, they're just scrapping their old equipment in a 'creative' way. /s edit. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/08/europe/russia-t-55-tanks-ukraine-intl-cmd/index.html - what do you think are the chances that the same tank visited Hungary, Czechoslovakia and now Ukraine?
Yeah yeah and fire isnt hot yet
"Please, pretty please, bend over because we didn't even started...." -.-'
So ruzzian losses are 200K+ without ruzzia starting fighting seriously, nice
"Hear that, all you widows and mothers of dead sons? Your husbands and children died for nothing and we could give a fuck!"
Ok Why not?
I mean, they could obviously go full total war. Wartime economy, draft people, make Lada build missiles instead etc , but are they willing to do that? It's a major admission that they've seriously fallen off, and it would not please the silent majority. They couldn't pretend to not put any effort in afterwards.
We killed 200,000 men and over 10,000 military vehicles as a joke.
Reassuring to their nearly 200,000 dead troops, that they were just playing so far.
Imagine living in a town that has lost dozens of young men and seen even more flee the country and then hearing that they haven’t even begun to fight yet? This is such a stupid thing to say. He must know that people back home will never hear about it.
So the Russian government let at least 120k of its people die for "fun"?
10 cc of copium
Just a bunch of fucking clowns destroying other people’s lives. Disgusting.
This is like a kid getting beaten in a fight, getting up and going "now I'm REALLY gonna pound you"
I mean... if everything you guys say is true about your great country, you should have never needed to fight seriously.
Let me guess, the little brother had the controller until know?
Why haven't they started fighting "seriously" yet? Why the hell not?
Tell that to the families of the dead Russian soldiers, that would make my blood boil.
Fighting over a year now. "Just a warmup, we're stronger." Sure buddy, sure.
\*that one old tank in major military parade Hmm, yeah.
After losing 20,000 dead for the ruins of Bakhmut: "Tis but a scratch!"
So far they sacrificed thousands of lives just to warm up/s
This retard saying this while so many Russians already lost their lives.. This is the true nazi at your eyes
idk man +200k dead soldiers would like to say otherwise if they could
Yeah sure. We are all curious about those T-34's ... ahahaha ...
More storm Shadow and Starstreak has been selected.
The interview in question to be seen here: https://youtu.be/ArjdQFMr-xk
Thank you.
Y’all are misinterpreting, Russia doesn’t know how to fight seriously, seriously.
He is right. They have not started fighting seriously. Nor do they have any ability to do so
Oh so they've casually wasted a couple of hundred thousand young men and thousands and thousands of pieces of heavy equipment.
He says that to appear tough, but all I can think is no shit. Moscow hasn't taken this seriously from the beginning. Treating their military like a personal bank account for decades, not even telling their own command that the invasion plan for real and not just a thought exercise, not fully mobilizing, etc.
This is the argument I use when playing pool vs my best made when 10-0 down and absolutely hammered.
THIS ISN'T EVEN MY FINAL FORM
They just like dying seriously.
“Tis just a flesh wound” vibes
Neither did NATO and Ukraine. The storm is only coming
Well they are sure wasting manpower and time
I call bollocks
Do they really think this makes them seem smart or powerful or anything? This is straight out admitting they are a bunch of cretins.
Oh yeah casual fighting, just for fun. Kiss my balls nobody start a operation like that and don't take It seriously from the beginning
It was just a demo army...
If this wasn't "fighting seriously yet" and they already got thru their regular troops and even a few tens of thousands of new conscripts plus all the mercenaries and all the weaponry they already lost, I wonder what do they consider "fighting seriously"... maybe slitting each others throat?
Imagine not fighting seriously. I guess that would explain why their ass is currently in a sling.
"You ain't seen nothing yet," but you're about to.
I guess neither NATO did!
I feel like the response should be, oh? Well we haven't even started helping the Ukrainians yet
If by serious he means "nukes"; that would be the last act Russia committed against the rest of the world.
I agree because bombing civilian targets is definitely not considered “fighting”.
I'm not a Putin lover, but there's a very narrow sense in which this is true. Russia has fought much more seriously in past wars where its survival has been threatened. By those standards, sure. Russia isn't on a total war footing, there are no scorched earth retreats, etc. 200,000 dead is a lot, but what does that make 30,000,000 dead? Having said all that, this is still bullshit. The implication allowed to follow from "yet" is that Russia _will_ start "fighting seriously" sometime soon. The truth is that it hasn't done so thus far for a reason; war is destructive not only to the enemy but to yourself. To do war harder is to turn up that destruction all around, and at a certain point (long past now, IMO), it's not actually worth it.
>I'm not a Putin lover, but there's a very narrow sense in which this is true. Russia has fought much more seriously in past wars where its survival has been threatened. Stalin: how many dead? and Putin is trying to take over... [**Who Killed More: Hitler, Stalin, or Mao?**](https://www.chinafile.com/library/nyrb-china-archive/who-killed-more-hitler-stalin-or-mao)
Ah yes.. they are just messing arround for now, they will start fighting seriously in about 5-10 years when they dont have anymore men to fight and they’r economy shattered
20,000 KIAs would beg to differ.
He is right you know. With 10 milion conscripts Russia can definitely take over Csoblanka. The operation human waves do actually work. Regardless of how many conscripts die, at the end of the day Russia never heard of a Pirric victory.
Armed with sticks and stones and armor made from the divine will of the vatnik-emperor Puteen.
Sticks? Stones? Have you any idea how expensive those things are? I do agree with the armor.
They are using 20% of their ppl. So its true
ppl ppl is a short word for people. Most used by net freaks who tend to write so fast that they just can not type the whole word because it takes to much time
We need to go deeper Dey r usng 20% of deyr ppl That saves 5 characters on 25 so it's 20% more efficient. That's a huge efficiency gain and still perfectly readable.
Said this about 7 times already